hemisphere as well and i still expect to see the changes that we voted for. there's no doubt that the united states government has the power to reverse this coup. i@ @ brazil signed a joint

declaration saying the same thing. and it lkoks now like the organization of american states will also follow. all of this has been noticed by the administration and last week the ste department moved a step closer to officially recognizing a military coup has takenlace. so i ask all of you here today for those watching this on television or on the internet take a moment to ask presint oba to live up to his promises if you are representing a government please try to get your government to speak out against the systematic repression and honduras. as numerous precedents in this hemisphere have noted this coup is a threat to democracy not only in honduras but throughout the region. the days when the military could overturn the will of the eltorate have gone away with the last century we cannot afford to go back to those days.

president zelaya was overthrown because they objected to help empower the majority of ponder and who are poor. in his first two years he succeededn reducing poverty by 10%. he won a 60% increase in minimum wage and large increase elementary school enrollment by getting rid of school tuition fees. these ar the real reasons for the coup that differ greatly from the fictional ones that we read and hear everyday but i let presidents zelaya get a firsthand version of is story. history will record it as a hero fortanding up to entrenched powerfulnterest and risking his life for democracy. we welcome presidentelaya. [applause]

>> tralator: good morning. thk you. i thank you sincerely for having extended that invitation, gw unersity. it is an honor to be here with you. when i am in the u.s. feel like a tru of the teachings of the founders ofhis wonderful american nation, georg washington, jefferson, lincoln and all the other men and women that have formed this democracy.

i would like to thank cynthia mcclintock from the university and the center of economic policy research who have helped organize the event to all of you greetings. all i am truly interested to have this brief talk with you so that we can learn lessons from an event in central ameca that has mourned -- been a cause for mourning for latin america and that the words i will ofurham will be helpful for all latin americans to think about how to

prevent any further coup de'tat in the future because leaing about and even to means also how to carry out a coup de'tat. this is important to assess the good and the bad. democracies are a political process where and all of the factors that pertains to society and all the social, the economics values and at the same time the personality of th individual as a person with his own contradictions based on his exisnce bob role of the individual has a specific weight beyond the dialect or the

analysisf the juncture. the character of the person always works path in society. it is not easy to attempt to define and 20 or 30 minutes the whole events that took place and all of the problems of a region let alone to define specifically what democracy means for it. in my own knowledge of the definition of democracy though 1i likehe most when he said that democracy is the government of the people for the people and by the people. so it is not the government for

the eletes or the government for the groups that hold power nor it is not a government developed by the defacto groups. on the contrary, it is a government f the people, organized by the people, and it is also organized by the people. a well-known general from which china many years ago landed in paris and a journalist asked ho

chi minh what was his opinion about democracy and the general said 200 years is too short to assess docracy. we need to wait a little longer. when my task democracy might ask this morning is to make some comments and it is up to you to judge it. we will have to make an assessment not to change the space system but to perfected. as i said at the beginning donato percy is an ongoing process. it is a way of life. it is a ccept that liesehind political per that the merger after the french revolion

modern wld. the greek practiced it in their cities, and now it has become the paradigm of modern society. that is why in my opinion we have to stand by it. we have to defend it very honestly and sincerely. that means to analyze its weakness and strengths, that way so that we can make progress. in hondus, on the 28th of june, barely two months ago, a

cruel coup de'tat took place. it was raided by spanish writer from the university and pert constitutional law. and i read this on le after a document he wrote about the coup de'tat. he said i honduras according to him it was poorly presented by those who executed it. they did not take care of the facili and international community -- it has backfired from the international community. i can say that it was obscene and not as the aesthetic to pull out a president at 5 a.m. out of

his residence, shooting guns. there are 150 bullets in a metal door at my house, and i think that this snish writer, the way he qualified h said obscene and antiaesthetic are there more elegant coupes? perhaps. so according to this writer, this brought about reduction even for the media that was promoting the coup de'tat. what perhaps the sympathizers turn their back on them. afterhe storm to my hous i

was dragged in my pajamas as we say. i was put in a plan by force and in 40 minutes after they supplied fuel to the plan at the base we took off. we got fuel at the base and i was taken to the city of san jose in costa rica. inside of the plan there were three military men whiff -- with guns and hoods wh their vests, heavy weapons perhaps they would think they would throw me out of the pla i mean why so much force in a small plane?

three milary men guarding me. i asked thene closer to me, i asked the officer where are we going and hsaid i don't have any orders to advise you of anything. could you find out? the truth is 40 minutes later we were landing at san jose, costa rica. i thought it was strange, but they were careful to open the door. they pulled t the steps, it is a small plane and they told me get off so they left me on this trip in my pajamas. what do i do now in my pajamas? i've never experienced something so bad. they just turnaround, but the

steps up and left. and later on an assistant for protocol that had been called received me and then proceeded to greet me. there was a press conference for the main broadcasting stations and b.c., cbs, bbc, 200 journalsts came over in less than what our. they offered me if i wanted to change that they cod give me some close, suit but i said i wouldn't fit io clothes. they would be short for me. why don't i just come out for the broadcast t same way they drop me off and my pajamas, and

they didn't tell me to get dressed. that this is a coup de'tat, and to get some clothes that we are taking you some place. i wouldave accepted the invitation because thewere heavily armed b no, they wanted to humiliate me to show their power, their power to -- cowardness. and when i left my roo i wanted to let two or three people know i wanted to talk to my wife and i was not able to because when

they saw my cellular they didn't want me to make a call to let the people know perhaps. they surrounded me, ten milary men with rifles. of course they are pointing at a president. they were very nervous. i noticed they were shaking. and they said this is a military order. if you don't let go of your cellular we will shoot. they were acting crazily and i said i am the president. that was very uncalled for, that conflict. but i wanted to she with you

some details. this was the way things developed but my her concern is because of the coup and i would like to discuss lessons we need to learn from this experience for latin america and for the rest of the world. first of all, the cause of the coup, the pro-coup argument argued that i was comtting a crim presumably because i have not been prosecuted. i never had a trial, i have never had a clean up against me either privately as a businessman or as a preside or

as a politician. i have been a deputy to the national congress three times and have never had a lawsuit ains me and i have not been convicted of anything. however they allege there were several cris i had committed or made in fractions to them. but if this is the case, honduras is a third world country, the prosecutors and the judges or not like they are here. if you just make a phone call then the trials change overnight and that is well known as the level of corruption and the impunity in the developing countries is quite sizable. but however they have always

handled even thoughhey were able to handle justice system i have never been accused, prosecuted or convicted. however, after coo there have been 24 lawsuits and borden's have been issued agast me. and there is a lawsuit against me for the drug dealing, terrorism, corruption, betrayal to my country, violation to the legal system i presume the entire world are trying to place a fear in me or humiliatee not

only myself but my family and the members of my cabinet. they all have been much warrants. there is political persecution. they are living outside of ponder arrest and in different countries of the world i say this because these are some of the reasons they juify the coup and there are some of third causes and i am actually advertising for them here in d.c. because it is to know both sides. ey also say those drugs the president of honduras was receiving came from venezuela by

plane from hugo chavez so that ey could sell it to the u.s. and that i had a drug carl between venezuela, honduras. so 1,000 accusations thatre trying to seek me. the truth is it is just like looking for a scapegoat to justify the coup. they also said that the coup was do becau they were trying to put a stop to an opinion poll the government was developing. is is the closest thing to

something rational because we were conducting on the day of the coup de'tat. that day the government with thousands of several organizations had organized a public opinion poll not a referendum. this was an opinion poll close to what the journalists do on tv or those undertaken by public opinion companies to understand the trends of public opinion such as the gall poll for instance to reach the opinion o the population. this opinion poll was asking the population whether they wanted to be asked, if they wanted to

be asked about constitutional reform which wanted to know what e people were thinking. there are a lot of scattered communities and honduras. it is difficult to have a true opinion poll because there are no phonein somereas. the systems for participation are not there sthe most effective way is to ask the community what is their opinion about something. this opinion poll was

nonbinding. the outcome wouldn't bind anybody because that is what the w for citizens' participation indicates th the outcome is not bding. it is just to find out what people are thinking. however, those in favor of the coup allege the poll was iegal and they were trying to do everything possible to make the procs to find it illegal. i know that there may be attkrneys here who are not going to discuss what is legal or illegal but our attorneys state the the process was perfely legal because the poll was non-binding andt is a space exercise to the people and the government and based o law that has been approvednd honduras

on day one of my administration we passed law as the congress has a session one day before the president is inaugurated and i stated that if the congress did not pass this law i d not want to swear in that i would swear in in front of the charge because that is what the law says the congress doesn't swear you and, the judge will so the congress passed the law for citizens' participation and article 5 it stes citizens may request from the state t be

consulted about matters of national or local interest that they obviously are interested in and that the outmeill not be nding. so this is just to finout what the population is thinking. so the people said that in order to avoid the consultation took over because tt would mean that the precedent in their own imagination because there are some descendants of nostra, so

that the president was going to cancel the supreme court and they would have a coup and he would install communism. that is w they had to have the coup in order to put a stop to those purposes in the precedents ideas. they never asked me. they asked me i deny it categorically. they aed me is this in order for you to continue to rule endlessly and iaid no i just want to know how people are thinking about reforms necessary to the legislation of the constitution. we just want to know. bu l me not delay the

presentation but i will give you my opinion. there are six families in the country that handle 90% of the economic activity. they monopolize everything virtually related to development. energy, telecommunications, food, fuel,inancial, banking, loan, loans and those families to control the congress because

the front of the congress members one of my biggest surprise is is i fou out that one of the families had a group of senators that were stronger actually house representatives that were more powerful than the presidents group, party ratr, and they were kept on salary. honduras is representative of democracy, and many times a house member has to spend a great deal of money campaigning in a and because the state does not fund campaigns they have to resort and in thateing

there and police and the national congress. in honduras the congress is the true source of power, not the president. the president has limited power. the concourse of points the torney general, the supreme court justice. i criticized the appointment of the justices because from the 15 justes that there are, virtually seven were named by the the main bks sofa majesty justices defentheir interest of the bank's and claims. and we believe that should not

be in a country that is so hawarden it needs more independence of their branches of power. to have true debate and that the congress should not be associated so in the three and a half yearsf the govnment, the conference has always been associated with those points, the justices and the prosecutor. now they will be appnting the commission -- commissioner for human rights, for competitiveness, the environment , the attorney

general is als named by the congress and he is now an attorney working inro-copu so the power is related to those that have been appointed. it is not like in the u.s. that the justices are named for life and that you need the whole process for them to be removed from their positions. and right now these six powerful families -- and i don't mind someone being economically powerful. they can mae as much money as they want. that is why there is free market but they are using their money

to deprive others from their own rights or performed coup de'tat. so these families are now handling and maneuvering the branches o power. they have them privatized because right now the president of the congress is now prdsident of the republic, self-proclaimed. there is an article of the constituti that ss no honduran can be thrown out of the country. that is unconstitutional. and another article says in the constitutional succession we occur only when there is absolute absence ie baiji def incapacitated by accident.

but those pro-coupay he was an coaster week. that is why we named the president president of congress beuse there is absence of president. if interpretation could be made like that no president could leave thei home because if he turns arod someone else is taking over. so that is an insult to the intelligence to seek to legalize or justify coup. the falies i am mentioning have been documented in books. victor has a book out eight months ago.

economic power in honduras and there is a picture on the cover that is the national congress. we have to get that book to show you and the names of the families are documented. i will not found on details, but the report -- there is a report by the ousted government that you can read about their names so this is a country in central america that is developing tryi to overcome the large

social prkblems. 65% of the population lives below the poverty line. this is a country with most pronounced in the qualities in the americas and it is the third porous economy. in three and a half years during my administration, i executed several reforms. they were not structural because the constitution doesn't allow me but they were important within the free market economy these were reforms to feed kneal liberal model that i believe has

some advantages but some huge disadvantages have been applied much in america after the washington since this field because instead of developing latin america has made wealth to accumulate post corruption. so reforms should not be feared, they should be part and parcel of a process. within the reforms, i have been fighting for more economic freedom that means less monopoly. the main economic activities in honduras are monopolies and oligolies. ald if at the end of the day they were good, we could discuss

their adequacy but for ross, the deteriorated the economic system and cause poverty and exclusion. they are protected by the state itself with laws, come assertions, fiscal exceptis, and this type of economy led us to look for new mall within the market. we took monetary action. we have reduced the allowance so that the banks can use more money for the development and

exchange measures and we didn't seek to tax more people but to collect and there are many companies that are not paying taxes so there where monetary policies put in place and fiscal that brought about the fact that the banking intere rate came down from 24% to 8%. so when the whole banking stem based on the actions we were taking produced economic

increase durin the first year of my administration went from 3% to 7% growth so we were growing 7% more in plant creation by 10% on aicultural products some countries and central america, they are important food when we have enough land and the ability to grow but are in porting work for instance from canada and the energy we are importing from

oil-producing countries from el salvador, nicaragua. we have thermal energy potential. we could be generating energy for central america and everything is based on oil because it isasier to buy a machine. dubow yet, turn it on and then you can generate power and the next dayou can sell its. but a few set up a geothermal coany or hydroelectric accompany it takes seven years to bui and you only seehe profit sevenears later so forth.

the businessmen and bankers are easy to finance the oil u than the alternatives. so all of these economic policies we started to modify the growth rate was 6.7%nd 07. our second year it went from, it was actually 6.5% and on the third year even during the wall street crisis last year we grew 4.5% so when there is gwth various reduction of poverty for the first ti. we eerienced extreme poverty reduction from 40% to 30% in one hand year, and the redtion had

been from 1% in ten years, and i was able to do reduction of extreme poverty of 10% i had the banks workin which they don't like they like to recharge not work. they had to lend money. we were supervising lending. i need to get to the questions and answers. we were able to get the best indicators socially, environmentally, and also per capita income went from 1,000 to

1400 in two years so theris a huge success, and we implemented social programs because when there iswth there is more tax collection and we are able to put in place health and education programs, the solidarity network we put in place there are people living in extreme povertyhat he once in awhile and that allowed us to rm for instance last ye with three awards from the competitiveness and of the

dynamic implementation of business. we had a good joint venture with taiwan and bzil and we opened up the economy for more competitiveness, and i know those that have the monopoly do not like it because they do not want to share but to accumulate. and we opened up foreign policy to reach to countries honduras was completely isnlated from venezuela, by brazil, argentina. the foreign policy was great.

cuba has a program that teaches ople how to read and rite and if there are health campaigns they have done 33,000 operations and honduras r those who cannot pay their operation the could to wait with cuba also. chavez has held honduras and small countries with energy and without having to ask for its because this is a fallacy that is used that they did that the coup had to do with chavez. chavez has no military or ecomic influence. the country that has economic and cultural influence is the

u.s. but they say due to chavez'q influence that is why the coup took place. but chavez is helping socially with programs. these are the main elements that precipitated the coup. as i see them the effects of the two have been extraordinary. this is the first time that the president of the u.s. condemns the coup publicly. the obama administration could in do other things we believe there more to be donner and i

will be meeting with secretary clinton tomorrow and we will haven oortunity to discuss some ideas that need to be developed that president areas, the head of liberation that a document was created and the pro-coup do not accept it, that is a challenge. the document seeks a solution and the small group of those programs and honduras does not accept it and is rejecting it i think that the first country in

the world cannot put its prestige on the line. and submit to to a small group of people that do not acaept the opinion of the international community. this is like a first snatch of democracy during the obama administration. as far as domestic issues for honduras, people have reacted in an extordina fashion. they have been resisted for 64 days in a very heroic way. they have never done that before. of course there is regression. i have one of the mayors here that has been ousted in the

second city of honduras. he was ousted as i have. he had to come to the u.s.. but there is the director that has been closed. the radio station has been closed and they are threatened. therere people detained and that i the only one that is still independent providing information about the resistance there is torture that has been documented. the american community of human rights of oas has provided a report. there a 1500 political detainees.

there are women who have been raped and to teachers have dogged and public administration and killed by military snipers and shots in their head, died instantly. there is ongoing repression. the state department has not made a stament aut human rights violations. amnesty international has. human rights march has and we hope that in the next few hours, not justf the declaration about the coup but the statement of the state department of human rights are apparent. last, i would like to say that

our goal at this time after the coup is to learn aew lessons that all the citizens of the world have a need for so that these events may not happen again and the possibility of reversing peacefully to restore the state of law. the international community does not have efficient mechanisms to make a coup a crime and immediately trial and sentence of those who perpetrate. this is a weakness of the international law. secondly, the role of the armed

forces haso be reviewed because if the role of the armed forces and its leaders that is able to be corrupted by the eletes this would turn into violence if they will use the armed actions to put an end to democracy than that would end of violence and would make the security of all people in latin america and the hemisphere would become weak if there are clandestine groups we have gotten rid of in the 60's. if the iran contra operations -- we have gotten rid of, but if we continue to bring conflt to

ou country's and we didn't have to go through assassinations and tortures but if this happens again, then our people from canada to the south pole will continue to experience and violence. we need to avoid that. it is the supreme good a society. this is to defend their freedom. this is how the u.s. and was able to pick a descendant of an african immigrant as their president. democracy cannot be, and it is actually phe se best way we have to fight for poverty to

remove poverty if our people lose the hope that democracy brings about that we wl have lost our hope for the next century's that should bring about the dreams of our patriots and independence of our countries. [applause] [applause] gracias. >> thank you very much. and i think we have ti for a few questions before the media

events. the most common question was about the specific steps you would like to see thebama administraton take now. i know you have already mentioned the denunciatio of the human-rights abuses that are ongoing but if there are other steps at this moment you would like to see the administration take to restore democracy in honduras. >> [speaking in native tongue] >> translator: -- tomorrow and some of the issues that will be discussed are precisely what it

just the characterization of the coup dtat for which the state partment has a recommendation but also the outcome of the mediation by president harry s. that is being weakened by the rejection of the pro coup regime after they accepted it after the u.s. involved itself in the solution by proposing a mediator. accepted it, and now the outce is not being taken into account and they are not taking thobama administration seriously, and also human rights, the violation to human-rights are unheard of. these are the habits of fascist

governments pre-world war two we had not seen evens like this the 21st century's most sophisticated modern or freedom of the press. and to give you the detail, and i will say this to the state department, they have the approach to government has a former militaryersonnel as a minister to advise on safety. he was the death angel during the 80's. he was in charge of cutting tongs, pulling out all eyes and

castrate people during the 80's he has trials' awaiting and spain and the u.s.. he was the leader of the death squad and he is now advising. he is a minister of safety for the government. my wife tried to come to the border. there were 3,000 people demonstration and the police apprehended to young people. they disappeared and of the next day they threw them dead and they had 2 stab wounds on their back. their fingers were crashed and the had plastic bags in their

mouth. .. been, have not been working for good they aren strike for 64 days and these are all issues that we will discuss with secretary clinton. >> i would also like to recognize the two ambassadors here, wm i know. ambassador from the embassy of venezuela, the ambassador from the embassy ofrazil. if there are other ambassadors

here i am sorry that i don't recognize youut we welcome your presence and we are honored that so many distinguished officials at the oas and from embassies could come to hear the president. a second question that was asked was about your interest in changes in the constitution in honduras, and your vision for politics in honduras in the future at that time. [speaking spanish] >> translator: as i was dating before, the changes that we have introduced or of an economic, social nature, that within the

washington consensus in the neoliberal model to develop our countries and we are accomplishing the best development procedures, but we reach date political solution that is the best elected democratic is through direct participation to the states and when it comes to the large domestic issues, now there is a debate on health in the u.s. and when it comes to domestic issues, what we do and in many countries that direct policies being used, we go straight to the people. we don rely on the president or congress, but we ask the

people and we base our decisions on that. in europe for instance, if a decision needs to be made, they would have the e. submit a referendum becau the president did not make the decisions themselves. wind euro what is proposed, this-- they submitted it to the population and in great britain they did not want to and they stayed with the pound. because som officials may betrayed the will of the people so they have a plebiscite and a referendum, but that is not taken seriously by the people so what i did is i change that so that people could give their opinion. the laforet plebiscite will be

used for the people to participate undemocratically. but, based on this law, you cannot ask about budget or social programs or tax matters, or international treaties. then, what is the use of the law? i said no, this lot needs to be changed, and they say that attacking the constitution because i want to ask the people at the want this lot to be change. it is the people who can change the law in the constitution. i have the president could not do it. i could not issue a decree to change it. there is another article in the constitution that states that

the power cannot immense the constitution, that the people can because the people approved the constitution, so we wanted to ask the people whether they wanted to be asked, whether they wanted to change the constitution. that is what we were asking. >> the third question is, given-- a third question is that given elections are scheduled and honduras for november, it seems to alogical that the de facto vernment would be so resistant to a mediation and two-door retned. elley understand this in terms

of the ongoing repression, or what exactly? [speaking spanish] >> translator: yesterday, i was that the oas and there were veral ambassadors here. and aut0% of the ambassadors made a statement yesterday, and there are resolutions from the unions of countries of south america and there are statements by the central american countries and resolutions. the president of mexico stated,

and also the ministry of foreign affairs and likewise from brazil, and countries that have made a statement outside the multilateral entities, of and those from t u.s. have also made a statement. they have stated that they will not recognize our government, that is the product of a coup as long as the president that has been elected by the people is restored to power and the coup d'etat is reversed, precisely

because the president himself, myself, who i am the produ of a political process of a liberal nature, very encompassing, there is a whole series of actions that guarantees a clean and transparent process. the population is now being repressed. those who are against the regime are repressed. one of the candidates for the presidency has his arms broken and is in a hospital because he has been attacked in a demonstration. this is a presidential candate. there are mayors and a mayor that has been ousted by force and be nephew of the current de

facto government has been appointed as the mayor, and he was not accepted and he had to be replaced. and, wha other labor leaders that were working on the poll, campesinos, indigenous people, they have been captured and their rights to participate have been violated. so, my question is to say that america as the continent is asking itself, can the pro-coup regime guarantee democracy when they are repressing a large part of the population, and members of my party and others who are

working the poll, it's it's transparent, could it be transparent? the other question is, the coup happened six months befor the election. now we are four months away, but when the elections were polled in may, then the coup happened the next month. so, is this an action to set up a fraudent action, and that will be made easier by removing the elected president from the country? can they guarantee clean elections win one of-- one of the most politically important forces is being repressed and there are no human rights year

in fees or no guarantee democratic participation? the people of america or specifically against the process and win honduras was excluded from the oas, it was so that it could come back later and we need a two-thirds of the vote, and we were not able to get it, so the regime out of date effecte government will not be recognized, and the elections, if the government is restored, it the social agreement to carry our relations are not a good outcome, but it will be a deepening of the social csis.

>> unfortunately we are now 15 minutes past the hour that the president is scheduled to meet with various media, but i am hoping very much that this presentation has helped in the into repression in honduras and the return of democracy to honduras, and your return to democracy. i would like as a token of our-- [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> now a discussion on japan recent eleion in the future of u.s. relations with that country. cbs news chief washington correspondent, bob schieffer, moderates this one our discussion. the center for strategic and international studies host the event. >> i am sorry to interrupt your conversations that we want to get going and we are glad t have all of you here today. would like to think it was brilliance tt wasble to time the election in this event, you

know but dumb luck sometimes went out over brilliance and we are really glad to have a chance to have evybody here today. to come together to talk about this election in japan. this was probably one of the most monumental political developments in the last 20 or 30 years in asia, and what does that mean? that is what we are going to export to night and we have got some fabulous people to help us do that. this is the third of our series that we do jointly with tc-99 youth's schaefer school of journalism. we are really proud to have that opportunity in thank youo very much. i like you probably get a little tired with kind of shouting angry journalism in america and what i always admire about bob schieffer is his tough as nails but cybil, a fair and honest spirit tha he brings to his journalism but alsbrings to us in this forum. we are really grateful to have all of them. i would just like to say a special word of thanks to where

friends at upc. this is a company that has a deep commitment to moving-- improving the quality of public policy in america. they have gen us a chance to partner with them on this. the wall know them andou wrote down on one of their elevators and it is part of the products they have made possible for us. thank you for all of that. we are really grateful. but, we will turn over to. let me just say one last thing. i want to welcome back my very good friend rt campbell. encourages ovethe state department and i was lucky enough to be his colleague for almost seven years and he went over to treat the centdr for american security and has done a fabulous job and of course he is now on the hill. were so greful and thanks for coming back. >> thank you very much dr. hamre and welcome once again. as they like to say in baseball, the parership between csis and tu, those of us at tcu hope it is good for both teams because

it is certainly good for our team and we really enjoyed the opportunity to be here to join with csis into w have, t people who kno most about japan with us today. i woul also like two of knowledge the japanese ambassador, ambassador welcome and we will be calling on you when we go to questions here. but come here and the stage with us today, i have all of this written down. i don't nd to write it down, but kurt campbell of course to ishe assistant secretary now for east asian and pacific affairs. he has bee in that job since june of this year. he was previously ceo and cofoder of theenter for new american security and ha said several positions errett csis. as dr.ammer said over the years including senior vice president and director of international security program. they henry h. solutions your

charen national security policy and was also an associate professor of public poli and international relations at the kennedy schooltarvard. michael green is senior adviser and holds the deppan chair re ed csis. also an associate professor of orgetown and served as special assistant to the president for an national security fce, senior director for asian affairs from january of 2004 to december of 2005. he joined the nsc in april of 2001. as director of asian affairs and worked at the council on foreign lations at the institute for defensanalysis, speaks fluent japanese and spent over five years in japan working as a staff member and the national diaz as a journalist for japanese american newspapers and is a consultant for u.s.

business. steve cemons, senior fellow and director of the american strategy program at the new america foundation. he also served as publisher of a very popular bg, the washington note. he has been an executive vice president at the economic strategy institute, a senior policy adviser for center jeff bingaman, which is whe i sit-- first met him when senator bingaman was making his first race f the congress and iot to know steve down to the years when he was on capitol hill. he for seven years was executive director of the japan america society for seven california, also co-unded, also co-founded the japan picy institute. so, johnson and let's get to it. mr. secretary, let me just are with you. what does this mean, why did it happen and what does it mean for u.s.-japanese relations? >> first of all it is terrific to be here, thank you bought

into my colleagues on the podium here into csis and john hamre in particular. these are wderful forums and we are really grateful for the opportunity to explore something as significant as this historic japanese election. it is important just basically to take a few minutes to appriate something that the united states and japan share, which is this tremeous commitment to democracy so what we have seen is an enormously importanelection that took place peaceably, in which there a neweneration of leaders have come to pgwer in japan, so at a very basicevel we recognize that we celebrate it and we appreciate it, and i would like toust say today, earlier today president obama reached-- at a

very good conversation. key thanked cam for some statements of late of importance to japan u.s. relationship and he congratulated him on his victory. he told the japanese leadership that the united states stands ready to work with japan. over the course of the next several weeks and months to ensure that our relationship is important going forward. this is a very early time. we have to take great care during the initial steps we are trying to send a very consistent message of our determination to work closely and to consult with japanese friends. we have a schedule for fairly deep engagements over the course of the next several months to ensurehe highest possible level of csultation, and i am confident that in terms of the basics, the fundamental issues

that unite the united states in japan, that those will remain in place. will there be some challenges ong the way? undoubtedlthere will be but the truth is we have faced challenges over decades. we have surmounted them. we have worked closely together and i think we have the lot of confidence that we will be able to do that over the course of the next several months. the watch word from our perspective right now is patience, comtment and solidarity so eel very, we are excited about the election, we are excited about the path and the way forward. we take nothing for granted in terms of expectations, associated with issues beyond our alliance but we do think that the foundation is there for a very strong relationship going forward. >> michael green, you and many other analysts really nailed it, everyone saw this coming but it

is still almost a shock that one party has held power since what come in 1955, and then thy lose it just a total-- they not only lose but they lose big. 300 out of 485 seats are something like that. why did it hpen? >> well, the japanese voters, it wasn't because of mr. on the. it wasn't because of the dpj policy. it was because they were sick and tired of the liberal democratic style of governance and the inability of the government to provide the japanese economy has grown at about 1.9% a year r a decade. ere is the sense that just can't go on and things have changed, so this was a massive, massive ctory for the opposition. japanese elections lately have been massive. there was a massive victory just a few years ago, so there's a

lot of swing with the japanese voters and they were ready to throw the bums out and give the new crew a trying that is mainly whathis is about. it is not so clear that the japanese publicnows what the new government will do or has complete confidence in what they will do but they are ready to throw the dice in. >> in other words thi was not so much a vote for the new party as it was a vote against the old party. >> that's right, that is pretty clear. there are some things the democratic party promised come to cut taxes and fees, stimula the economy in empowers civil society more. they are going to the centralized government. in terms of how to restore long-term growth, there wasn't a clear affirmative vote for anything. it was just time to get rid of the old crew and i talked to friends in japan right to live who voted for the-- but they

weren't sure what came nt. >> steve, when something like this happens, there is always, america always becomes an issue it seems like. it was and that you heard anti-american statements from the new partys they were coming to this election, but you ard them talk about, we need more independence from america, we need is to separate. is this going to make a difference in japan american alliance? >> i was writing a piece today that hatoyama is going to find his inner obama and what i meant by that is that a lot of things at on the campaign trail are going to be softened, delayed and priorities are going o be set. the great ariel sharon line, we were sitting behind the prime minister's desk and he was responding insane tngs look differently behind his desk and things will look differently

behind hatama desk in what he puts forth. i think this an exciting electionn part because to be blunt many people feelhe ldp's sort of lost its ability to be flexible in a lot ofey areas. in the past the lpd was able to reinvent itself and that sort of banded but you also have the impression rightly or wrongly, that many janese felt that the u.s.-japan relationship and a whole variety of fronts wasust stuck too much in the past and i have been one to sort of suggest asell that there was a kind of brewg nationalism that i would consider sort of nasty right-wing nationalism. i am very happy that now we are going to see a negotiated nationalism and part of tt will involve the relationship with the united states and where they tak it. recently hatoyama published in "huffington post" in all places, ps complaining about the negative consequences of the american-led minnick neal libesm if you will and they

made aomnt that a lot of americans felt what hatoyama was saying and w have had the shift to some degree on these issues, but i think that when the real strong man behind this wrote his book on a blueprint for a normal nation coming in it he did not destroy or dmantled the u.s.-japan relationship. he talked about the importance of boming a greater stakeholder, sorting out japan's interests while in heir own in changing the image to the degree it still exists of japan just being a puppet or a satellite of american interest exclusively and having a greater role to play. i think this is part of the japanese narrative which has been grongnd we should look at this as a healthy thing. i predicted a much hethr come a lively and so much reinvented u.s.-japan relationship in part because of hatoyama talking about the need to create some distance. i think it's a good thing as opposed to what se people see in se sense that it will cost this influence. i don't believe that at all.

>> go ahead. >> i like both of what steven mic is dead. i actually think for the liance to maintain its relevance, and its influence over the course of the first part of this century, a degree of independence, of confidence is actually-- absolutely essential so i actually think these are not, it is just and reaffirmed t. [inaudible] in contrast with one another, th are actually is essential. it is important that japan feel confident and independent and in fact the united states supports that. don't see any contradiction in terms of a clo alliance and a grear independence in terms of doing business. i think we will find that even in an independent mind said we will find ourselves takin very similar positions. i also think that one of the things we have heard from dpj is a desire to have a closer in

deeper relationship in asia with both south korea and cna and that has sometimes been positive as something the united states either against orth written by. nothing could be further from the case. weep like to see japan play a stnger leadership rules partners with friends in asia and we will support that. we also believe that the process they will come to appreciate and understand the significance, so in terms of the basics were very comfortable. i would also suggest to you, we see this in the united states. i wrote a book on transitions with my friend, nav deputies secretary jim steinberg, transitions of democracies are difficult. this will be different fm transitions that we have seen in the past. this is going to take a period of time. we are going to have to be patient. is probably gog to play out not just over a couple of weeks but months. new means and mechanisms of making decisions will be put in

place. if i had one caution, i would say by own personal experience and some of the finest professional phi have wked with in jan are bureaucrats. i would hate to see a piod whereby somehow they are positive as the enemy and somehow to be gone after. i think over time many of our new friendthate just arrived in power will come to appreciate how strong these men d women are, how much they serve japan's interests over the course of the last several decades. of course there can be changes, but overall, there has been a lot of very good work done and we hope to continue our professional relationships. >> from the united st andpoint, what are the most critical, the most difficult parts of this alliance? what means most to us on this

side? >> well, let me just briefly if i could come and go back to what kurd and steve said. there is thishetoric in narrative that is cme out of the democratic pty about distance to the u.s. closer to asia and it is important to understand where the japanese people are. i will go for a lot of numbers but recent polls th the japanese public was asked tyou feel close to the united states, 70% said yes. and across the board, the public opinion in japan in some ways this never been better about the common interest, so lot of this rhetoric about distancing from the u.s. and moving to a sha thing comes of it narrative at the democratic party in japan use to try to attack the ldp because the government corps raided vy closely. and we are seeing that frederick still. i think is going to start dying have is these guys come into office and start looking at what they do about north korea, what do they do about rising china?

they are very few issues where we disagree about japan. added strategic level, from the middle of the second world war, long-term strategic plan-- planners knew we had to have a strong relationship with japan and thei foreign policy on a bipartisan basis has been based on that for 60 years. we especially need it now with the rise of china, not that japan or the united states wants to contain chinaut to provide a stable and environment or we can enga china from a sition of confidence. japan is the second-largest contributor to the united nations and most of the international restitution s organizations to work we have to be with japan and we are we are close to japan in the g7 in g-20 discussions. we need to ban on the north korean nuclear problem and for rd presents across th hemisphere are bases in japan are absolutely critical. the dpj has made some noises about changing the status of our

forces, but looking-- blocking okinawa. i think the japanese public and the rest of the reason-- regioned understand alimport ceasar and that is a long list of critical interest. >> do you see any of those changes coming nor any of the things changing in any hard way? >>ot the major things but i thk there will be down the road, not on the front end of the hatoyama and streets and but changes on the edges, things that will make kurt campbell a bit crazy about one to renegotiate for the rights of litary service men on base is in discussions about sovereignty and dision-making. i think there will be some of the. i think kurds will be in genius that getting the japanesto moveeyond the abductee issue as the bee all when they think about regional security and began to look there and i think we are going to see and what i hope happens comes into reify

something like just laid out, japan has some of the bt international bureaucrats in the system and one of t things that i feel working against it, you have lotsarah come clean up unesco wehr jesse helms supported going back. you had in the high commission for refugees i peacekeeping, him iaea. you have got in the bretton woods institutions in jap used to combine a kind of commitmt to security three notion of independence of the system in ways that took t pressure off the united states for being the player and i think there has been some muting of that. i would love to see a return to that because i actually think it helped us and help the relationship and remind people of the vitality of japan i think japan if can be blunt, despite the interest of this dormancies ben is taken for granted. i think japanuring the second gulf war, during the iraq war decided to stop challenging the

united statesun keach rate issues and bome our power into subordinate with a lot of the tensions. ifou don't have points of tension with another country, you are not taken seriously and i think somewhat the u.s.-japan relationship has a lot less visibility than it should have given its weigh that is why excited about this democracy 2.0 moment and i think we are going to see japan rise in relevance and significance in consequence the eyes of congress, which i think has been on attending this relationship and underwear that, so when you look at this combined portfolio and asking, going along with what mike said, i think you are going to see renewed interest and hopefully to be in come back to some of these international institutions in which it is very useful for us and i think it willeturn them back to prominence internationally. >> are we on this same page with japan and kea, on the curry

as? >> on north korea? pn south korea. >> in both respects, yes. even before the outreach problem, president obama, there have already been conversations between hatoyama and his korean counterpart they have underscored their desire to work more closely together. i think one the things we have seen over several years is a tendency to in certain circumstances for a ofeasons to suddenly see south korean japanese, the japanese self korean relions taken a nosedive and ultimately that is not in our interest. we wanto see our two closest allies working more closely together. if may say, focusing more on the future than the pests and i think we see their real prospects going forward so that is our basic issue and i think we are going t see very good work in this area going forward.

and north korea, it is still early. i think, i think at a general level the united states in japan sherer basic beliefs. we will not accept a nuclear north korea. we are committed to a diplomatic process, whereby during the six-party frawork we try in some future. not to sit down with north korea at they accept the commitments that they have taken in 2005, so i think you wl seehat the uned states and japan will work closely tethe on north korea. i hate to say this but we are pretty mh in violent agreement about areas where i think we can wo together. it is theeal challenge, i don't think we fully appreciate how difficult it is, how wholesale a change this is likely to be in terms of the whole group of people. remember this is not just the new group of people coming into

the executive branch. this is a new group of people many of whom have never been of power, not only in the legislative branch but will be serving in some capacity in the executive branch. there is a tremeous discipline and rigor associated with power and can be brutal, it can be very challenging and we see that lane at natalene united states intransigents but we see it playing out in other places. this is a whole new generation of people who are experiencing this together for the first time so i think one of the things we have to be careful about is not to havenrealiic expectations in the short term about cle and coherent policy statement. it may take time for them to be able to fully enunciate and i think we have to be patient and also understand that ty are going to be some straight flares and some comments made that perhaps make people anxiou and recognize that we have to be much more focused on the

balanced in the votes which are these larger issues that really unite the united states in japan. >> iust want to add one point to a firm something that kurtz said that hasn't been getting a lot of press but this pay with 300 plus members it's going to have to hire staff people, trained step people, educate them about the legislative process. when you get beyond the sexy topic seaware fighting over, 99% of the work doesn't get the headlines. there is a whole infrastructure within the ldp that it's been there in pla for decades that essentially much of the interl organs of policy and legislative work don't exist in any mature way within the dpj, not to the same level so there is another sort of back shop questionhich i think even more disconcerting and can handicap the government and actually ihink what you will have a few public hangings of beaucrats ultimately those

bureaucrats in up becoming a vital partf its so i just want throw that out there, that their going to ha a lot of handicaps. >> also the dpj is have the luxury of not having to come to a conclusion on key economic and foreign policy issues because they rode this way but the guy's currently in power. there are a variety of views. there's of a clear consensus on whether they should continue refueling operations in t indian ocean to help afghanistan, what to do about the okinawan agreement. i suspect what will happen as the politicians will learn how to learn with the reaucracy will be the ones that have the inside and the power to actually governance survive s the dpj has said there quintuplets citizens on everything. the smart politicns are the ones who will marry themselves to the right bureaucracy and get things done. i also think curt articulated exactly the right policy. be patient, help work through a

strategy together, focus on the relationship between hatoyama and president obama. there are issues. they will have to decide which about the indian ocean. they will have to make decisio on the north korean policy. what worries me will is, this is not at all, what kurd said i think it's right, what worries me as having n resolve some of these convictions. this government may not be able to come up with the aid decision and will sort of punt and pass on key decisions. the last thing i would say is, steve is right, they are people like ambassadors hatoyama and others who were international organizations. we should be actively supporting war japanese leadership ken personnel in the u.n. and elsewhere. what i would disagree think it finders did you steve, the idea that japan been to the cult in becoming interesting is good for u.s.-japan relations or japan position in the world a lot of the narrative has been

nearly focused on the u.s.. we sending to people and i would-- to iraq and afghanistan because of the u.s.. what i hope will happen is the new government will comen, step back and stop poung about the u.s. and think about whether their policies on afghanistan, on economic reconstruction in iraq, on revitalizing their own economy, think about whether these are credible ternatiolly because what is credible to us is going to be credible to india, britain, to candidate, to korea and so i'm hoping they will step out of this u.s.-japan prism and step back and think through what will make japan influential inedible globally. if the do that i think it will move in the right direction. >> can i say one other thing? the of the thing is, let's reflect that our japanese frnds and government are n just talking to us, they are talking with a range of other countries. it is gratifying how many other

countries have gone t the japanese and said look, job number one, yes we want good bilateral relationships that make sure they europe japan relationship is strong. they are hearing that from a whole range of countries, not justhe nation. >> i want to go to questions in the audience center than we normally do becausectually have so many experts here today and first i would like to call on the japanese ambassador. mr. ambassador would you like to make some comments here or would you like to even ask the question? and would you go to the micropho? we would love forou to go to the microphone. it is a lot of cameras. >> in my coury, they are saying that if tree people get together produce food as

wisdom. there's not much to add to what they have said, and especially it has not started y and i'm not in a position to projected. but, i would like to just make a couple of points. on the economy, i think what he is saying is that he is not denying market forces and globalism but if we leave everything to market alone, we not-- manot produce the best result for wholesale and the guiding principle in adjusent is to care abo others. and i think as steve said, it is also here in the united states as well that government is having a bigger role in

adjusting economy. the second point is about u.s.-japan relations. mr. hatoyama says he is seeking future oriented relations between japan and the united stat, and i think it is true that there are some differences between incumbentovernments and the incoming government on some of the issues. however, wha is most important is that dpj as well as ldp is saying that japan u.s. relations will continue to be the cornerstone for theoundation of japan's foreign policy. my laspoint is that i have

always said that in managing partner relations like japan u.s., three points are important. i have been saying it has three notes. no surprise, no over politicizing things, and lastly, no taking for granted. and i think these are more truth than ever when the to the administration's get together. that is my personal comment. thank you very much. >> alright, other questions from the audiee? if you could come a could you come up? you, go ahead. you are holding your hand up. there you go. >> thank you very much.

i want to ask you a simple but a difficult question. unr the japanese political atmosphere of continuity in increasing frustration, seeking for change it is naturally getting difficultith the sensitive issues such as the okun know what issues. both t japanese and u.s. government both. this brings the possibility that the u.s. government allows for gives the japanese government some boom for maneuver, such as the more time to cool down o th relocation issue of the u.s. marines to qualm, ward to accept some new proposal from japan's vernment to reduce soe u.s.

forces agreement. thank you. >> i know mike will want to say-- i wl just say something directly. first of all one of the things they teach y at the state the purpose is to repeat which are spokesman has said, so rusty demming taught me that. it took me years to other and but i have final mastered it. and i think on this particular issue i would prefer-- refer y to whether state department spokesman sd about our expectatns about going ahead. i would say however there are expectations that are going to make progress. the shoes on okinawa have been with the sale of time. we have made some progress and we would like to continue and it is very important to us and we feel like we are for closely with the governmt of japan and we will continue to work closely what i would also stand by the statent that our present their -- press secretary said yesterday. >> what is going to be the

relationship betweenapan and china? i would just like to throw that on the table. do you see that changing? >> it is going to be fun and interesting rollercoaer ride. in mike within japan is going to be in a position where ihas to try work with others-- other states and moving 1.1 blion, in what we are calling it capitalist into a different arena and somehow deal with china's interests. i tillie joke that it was actually wrote a real sue a few years ago i was in beijing in visited the director policy planning and i said what do you working non-comment he said how to keep youmericans distracd from small middle eastern countries. i think at the time there was significant criticism by japan privately to communicate with the bush administration on the absence of high level american government officials at kiso myths in asia and one of the

things i was very pleased by was secretary clinton cummins she is doing it globally, is the real presce, going to jap first, being in asia, putting in face time. i think there has been some distraction because of other issues and i think that that helps japan someone deal with china and its growth and its potential in the region at the same time japan is gog to invest in china but it also has important issues that i hope you see more mature leadership mboh sais because i have often said that one of the negative consequences and moral hazards of the strong american military maceachen in the region is it propst-- promise irresponsible behavior by korean, japanese and chinese leaders who want to exploit on a short-term basis a virulence nationalism because they know there's not going to be conflict bause we are there, so we can get away from it and i hope the methot evette

days. >> i hope that this meanhat the conclusion is that the u.s. pulls out of asia-- they will be responsible. anyway, and not sure we want to assess the pieces or will, but japan and china come asianness historically had a hierarchical relationship and others have said this is the first time where japan and china are powerful of the same time. china is moving up in japan has an awful lot of national power and it is deeply uncomfortable. you can see it in the opinion polls in the deep anxie about china in japan. it is chinese submarines, it is nuclear weapons, it is chinese blocking japese and diplomatic negotiations around the world. it is poison dumplings. it is pretty broad and yet at the same time china has been japan's largest trading partner, larger than us, for about four years now so it is a complicated

mix of rivalry and interdependency that fundamentally won't change. in the near term i think this government has been very clear, this new government, hatoyama, they want to move closer to china. they want temphasize history shoes. that is it that thing as kurt said, it is synergist. does malpass when there is tension. i think steve says ratley roer-coast and there may be a danger that if the governmt tries to hard they are going to start provoking a reactn at home because of e deep anxiety in china so aomplicated roller-coaster but some good initial steps. >> you wanted to say something? alright, right here. >> a follow-up to bob's queson. the question is for secretary campbell and other panelists.

we all know that taiwan has long been a very important factor in japan china relationships i u.s.-china relationship speak w do you you see the taiwan being affected in the new japan cha relationship and the new japan u.s. relationship? thank you very much. >> okay, i see continuity in the u.s. cents. i think the administration has started out very clearly in terms of our iernational commitnts. worked very closely over the course of the last several weeks in a humanitarian effort in response to the tragedy in taiwan wh the typhoon and i think you are going to see dialogue and appropriate interaction between the united states and taiwan. i am going to leave it to me to talk about what we think we mit pect to see between

japan and taiwan and ieed other countries. i would say one thing about the overall campaign generally. there has been probably more of the focus on domestic issues then fincial issues than there was on international issues. that does not mean anhing necessarily going forward but as a general proposition that was the case. in terms of specifics outside of the u.s.-japan relaons and some general statements about wanting to have a closer relationship with asia, one of the positives in some respects for any incoming government is that they are in some respects unencumbered by an enormous number of aommitments. the platform i relatively general and i don't think actually there has been much said about this or other issues but i will leave it to mike and others to comment on that. >> i think there will be a variety of views in taiwan just as there were a variety of views within the ldp just as there are

a of the use within the republican and democratic parties. if you were watching this closely then i would say it was foreign minister because there some in pj it want to do a lot to improve relations with china. there are others who are quite pro-taiwan so i won't go into names, but there are different views on this. but in general i think curtis right, the falling ofelations has made it sier for everyone else a lease for now, so i would not expect any big changes. >> okay, the next question. here. she has got a mic there think. >>aul of reuters news agency. following on that theme, you know, i think this is probably mike green question, the dpj is a broad umbrella of factions and some are right leaning, and i'm wondering if it is possible that

this sort of hiory view that they are going to deal with déàa will raise hackles on the side of the party and you could have another cabinet minister doing something provocative. you recalluring the non-ldp government of the early that were played by that because they assembled a group of right-wing people in the cabinet. >> i think there is briefings room on the history issue. i think that hatoyama promised the to go to the shrine did not cause any great backlash in the political debate in japan. on the history issue for the time being there is a little bit of room and i think there will not be pressure within the dpj but you are righto point out that they are vy to confuse within the party. there probably 40 or 50 members of the dpj for as conservative as theost conservative ldp. kurt makes a good point about where their going to focus their political capital and i think they are going to focus on

changing the domestic political economy because the reality is we are all excit about this big change but is possible that in three months or six month these guys will be gone. so mismanagements could cause realignment. they have to win in the upper house election next summer, so if you are the architect of this victory and the guy he wants to win next summer for the dpj you don't want to push foreign-policy issues that split your policy, you want to fight with the obama administration. president obama has 82% support in japan. there's got a whole lot of political hay to be made with the big fight wh the u.s. so i think that is one more reason why do you will see a lot more focus on changing the domestic political economy, starting to steal away constituencies from the ldp and get ready to really talk to em which is what is hayama, vicaro rove of japan, is really all abo.

>> i would like to just quickly, you got to wait very good point in the early 1980's henry kissinger wrote an article critiquing the ldp and sing one of the reasons you could negotiate with the ldp is becae it had all of these factions and the eats factn thought something different about policy. remember because it was my first letter to a newspaper th was published, dr. kissinger with all due respect you were quite wrong because it was driven by power differences, t henry ksinger's article which ift we resurrected we be completely about the dpj today. notch is power inside the party, you are going to have an incredible heterodoxy among the very large at friends institution which they have not figured out how to discipline that yet and how to cate conflict management mechanisms to move forward and we have seen th in the rotating leadership with con and akaka and hatoyama who are all themselves, are going to have to figure that out bu it is not just them, it is

her folks to. i will look up at kissinger peace and bring itack but in that sense that is a real handicap when it comes to moving and they have got to figur that out soon and from my sources i don't think they have. >> i would just add dr. kissinger called earlier and asked if you wergoing to be here. [laughter] >>eogh wees knows. >> it is also not clearhat dpj will replicate exactly this actionable approach to politics that t lbj did in the truth is that approach sometimes makes it difficult to do the kind of policy concessions, dialogue, implementation that you see in successful democracies, so i age very much the jury is still held, and we will see but this is an enormous party, with a theory white set of views on

almost every imaginable iue. >> factions were easier. >> ambassador paul wolfowitz is here. >> this has been addressed the guests with the last question but i am curious whether in it you think the desire to improve relations with china might push japan to do something more than just fewer visits to the shrine. it is striking when you compare japan and germany and what a great job the germans have done in addressing their past when the porch of the janese have done. they talked about improving relations but it always comes up as an issue with china. do you think there is in t possibility with all the other issues that have to dss? bead in the early '70s, this is trichet would take least three generations to reconcile. ve never known how long a generation is muddle think we are there yet.

>> 20 years. >> not too long from now. the difference obviously i think between japan and chi and france and germany is that the chinese have not done with france obviously cou do which is internal reconciliation about their own history and the history of the communist party, i ended my view, until china can reconcile internally it won't happen with japan. not to put all the burden on japan but that is one big obstle. ..

negotiations along the lines of the previous agreement. there is a lot of pressure to negotiate to see if that is possible to notiate which gets into the chicken and egg problem. the japanese work out how they are going to think about us dealing with the north. might be helpful if youould walk us through how you're seeing this chicken and egg problem what is the difference between discussions and negotiations. steve bonds worth going to talk but not deal unless they say in advance is going to be about the

mb. >> much of this as you know, chs, is far ahead of where se are and it's well known to many people here steve basra and the ambassador are in a plane today for consultations with our allies and japan,outh korea and china to talk about next steps. no commitments have been made about either talks, discussions, diplomacy come negotiations at all. nothing visai north korea. we are at an early stage and which we are presenting some ideas how to go forward with both japan, south korea and china. i t@ink the basics of that are still very clear. we are committed to the six party framework. we think the most important agreemen with korea are in bed in that ocessarticularly 2005. we i think are united in our

beeve we must see commitment in alear and firm commitment from north korea backed up by irreversible steps that commitment to a nuclear-free north korea and we have other issues we are going to want to discuss associated with proliferation. overall ware at your earliest possible stages. we've just come out of six or seven months of severe provocations. we continue to implement u. resolution 1784 and i would underscore on that despite some of the discussion about the next steps in discussions or dialogue the most interesting things that have happened in recent months is other countries not just asia but the middle ea and others are beginning to take steps to plement 1784 and aspects of

the psi that is an iication as long just asia but countries elsewhere that appreciate and understand some of these provocative steps transfer dangerous technologies are not only bad for countries in the region but also globally. so i think overall where you will see over the course of the next several months are closer interactions clearly in the process of reevaluating their own interactions with north korea. china has been in the process of a rather deep reflection of north korea now for several months and clearly we have to give japan some time to formulate if they are going to have a different set of perspectives on north korea we have got to give them time and we recognize their views on north korea and this process of five parties. it's essential to keep them engaged. that's where we are so why can't

get in evidence will will look like negotiations and what is our specific appach to various issues because we are well before that in this process. >> do we have in the women that want to ask questions? so far it has been all meals. this lady right here. >> kyoto news. setting aside a larger security and economic issues for the moment the new japanese government can do to reassure the u.s.? mr. campbell, you mentioned ma throwing out the bureaucrats as the eny and you said that china engagement would be good. are there otherhings they can do in the next few months? >> meshaal i'm sorry i dn't recognize you over there. >> can i just say on the issue of the bureaucrats that is not a government coordinated position on behalf of the united states. [laughter] we have got to keep t

bureaucrats. that is and what i was suggesting. i was maki a personal observation of people i have worked with. >> despite your jobody looks at you as a bureaucrat. >> i thi there are some issues we are going to ok to see commitment on the part of japan. the general assembly is coming out. the truth is as both my colleagues underscored japan's leadership in the united nations is an essential and it's a leadership role, not a follow ship rolled. they take initiatives on a range of issues we want to see that activism continue at the united natis and we will see some evence of that later this month. i would like to see a continuing commitment from japan and climate change on issues associated and the ld up to some very difficult negotiations in cenhage and i think for our eight range of other ternational issues we're coming into the flu season japan

has played an incredibly important role in some of the aspects associated with early steps on h1n1 so those are basic steps but i think overall, continuing on the course that japan has been on will be an important contribution to the maintenance of peace and stabilit and aivist and global role. >> i think, i am not in the government so i can say this. i think the toe in "the new york times" and @uffington post article about globalization and american capitalisis find during the election campaign and the transition. our candidates have said things we kind of scratch our heads and some at pfizer's get into a speech and everyone else regrets and these things happen. an early indicion -- [laughter] i won't give examples. an early indication to me will be if this rhetoric stops when

they come into power. it's not particularly helpfu it helps explain the philosophy. you don't need it when it is a government. that would be one thing. i think right now my sense is the dj is tting to see what they can get away with from the promises they made about stopping the ships in afghanistan and indian ocean and this and that and an early good sign will be if they stopped asking which of the wish lists they could havend dialogue with ainistration about what they cano instead of sayi we don't want to send ships to the indian ocean dialogue based on what can we do in afghanistan let's put the ships aside what can we do and hear ouresources japan has. that kind of agenda with the obama administration. yes, we can. here's the kind things japan can do. it will be their deision and will be a man you but right now my sense is interactions are what we set in the campaign we won't do this. move awa from th can't do and start the agenda and dialogue

and here is what japan can do. that would immiately be recognized long not only in the u.s. but other countries. thes are people who want to keep japan in the international i was going to say the fight, but in the problem solving business internationally. >> if i can a short while ago a few months ago the society of southern california had its 100th anniversary i went back for that, a big dinne universal studios may be some of you were there, the ambassador was there and this cleared by him to p on the record. i joked about the importance of the former prime minister being barack obama as first official guest at the white house, first official foreign leader guest and i asked how high the price was and he says tt is a decade old thinking. we are not in that amore but at the plate in my view y barack obama invited him to tt, to have that place very important is on the international economic

questions. i don't believe the global heart attack is over. i believe there's significant challenges ahead on how to deal with the problem of developing countries. japan still sits on today the largest capital pilot in the world larger than china in terms of when you do with financing is important. japan has severe economic problemsut what it can do in parameters of the international economic order are absolutely vital and i ink in my view the impression is japan has been somewhat internally nsumed and not playing at its wheat if he will in this international level. one of the this i think it needs to do and barack obama is focused on is our partners and cot to words if you will of a revitalized international moving into that and i thi we need to show their ability to playn that game. >> i would say one thing. i am struck by his work. we are assuming ort least i

assumed we will have a sort of plastic period leisurely in the sense where the new government can come up to speed. the tth is global politics has a way of testing new leaders whether the united states or sewhere and we don't know whether we will have that luxury in japan or elshere. >> joe biden said six months he will be tested. [laughr] >> that's right. [laughter] >> csis, wouldou like to get a final question or maybe you have a comment. >> first i want to thank tcu and the school of journalism for sponsoring these proams. this has been an outstanding panel today. are glad to have you back, steve, mike, we are glad to have you here. you have to make great job and we appreciate the school of journalism both meaninghe school after you and assigning you to this important task

working with csis is terrific. i have been reminded today by the panel unanimous view that politicians should not on their own try to frame questions that we need bureaucrats and staff people for that purpose but nevertheless i will close with one question and that is energy and environment. did it come up much in the campgn. would either of those issues or do you expect any signaficant change in the new government? >> i am thinking that line for this panel which is tell japan be good to bureaucrats and staffers. [laughter] >> ponder more. [laughter] >> steve made a good point about japan notetting credit for all it can do and has done significant pdges, but also very significant targets for climate change and the dpj his in the manifesto was not the ldp

in the cuts ey have pledgedo make. i think theyill find a very hard but they are definitely setting -- they are paid far forward on climate change and that is one. on t nuclear power it will be interesting. the rk has a bit of a mixed set of views nuclear power in japan. but i think genally japan will keep as everyone has had moving in the direction of nuclear power they have on the proliferation site witho a lot of signals they want to do more on reducing nuclear weapons on artie 6 of the conventional test ban treaty. not a lotf specifics yet but i think there is a lot of potential for u.s. and other countries to work with the government and see what japan can do in terms of realistic policies to reduce nuclear weapons and deal with proliferation. there's a lot of idealism and

what they have put out. i think the mainstream in japan is still very concerned about the credibility of extended. we shouldn't be confused by this. yes there is idealistic overtly and the desire to do this book right believe is a concern about the credibility of extended deterrence so this is a right. to not only be sure of japan but i think for curt and others to come up with a protective agenda to take some of these ambitious views the government has of the nuclear weapons and put them in practice. >> steve, why don't you -- >> just very quickly, i agree with everything on the nuclear weapons issue. these were very big issues. the dbj was talking about quality-of-life of the local level to improve but also jumping from that to a sort of global quality-of-life a it's had a very speenineteen character and from the policy perspective talkg a policy

staff again to make alea for the burecrats within the dpj they see lots of opportunities given the skills strengths of being innovative driving force of green economy and think much more so thanhe united states is in the position to be and so on energy environment i think they see these as areas of collaboration, strength, skill. we recently had -- i think they look at the move the united states is moving in, the airman of the folks recently trying to say we will give you our technology to help. we see all of this as ausiness economic opportunity for the revitalization and the dpj has en trumpeting that. >> secretary weigel tm close. >> i hopwhen we have the next meeting on the japan relations we have the same number of peopleere and we can sustain this interest. >> as long as you are here they will be here. [laughter] >> i'm sure that is the case.

and other bureaucrats. [laughter] and i thank both of my colleagues for being here. >> gentlemen, thank you for teaching csis. and although conversations. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

i have to say i appreciate everyone that is here. thank you for coming.

alough she is not here i would like to say thank you very much toister hel prejan for writing fe foreword. sister helen of course new billy knott while he was on death row, but her bk, dead man walking centered in angola around the story of a death row inmate, she came to the prison and new billy so when this book was coming out we asked if she would write the foreword a she did i think because obviously looking for arguments against the death penalty and when prosecutors arrived at the sentencing phase many of them will say this person must be put to death because this person cannot @e rescued. this person will be an ongoing threat to society and billy's life of course refutes that absolutely.

and i thank sastre hollen for doing that. i will tell you the book and as much as we can possibly do so puts you in side of the death house and tells you what the authorities do not want you to know. executions a gruesome even when the authorities say they are flawlessly executed, which means everything from their standpoint went correctly. but those are the accounts of the people that actually do the killing. and this book tells you the other side of the story and it is written by two journalists, former journalists now one who is behind bars and one who is outside, and that is billy sinclair and me to read this book actually took 42 years to write because billy got the death sentence 42 years ago and at the young age of 21 became intensely focused on the death penalty. when i began my careers a reporter one of th things i had

the opportunity to do as a five part series on the death penalty when it appeared that louisianan was going to execute the first inmate in the post so i wento the author of -- death row and met billy. 1997i witnessed and execution at huntsville of an inmate named michael wheat lockhart, and his crimes were terrible, but i will never forget the experience of being in the death house watching the execution take place, and i will talk to you a little bit about that later. but this book does come from personal and professional experience over a period of many years and a lot of refined and reflective fought. >> thankou, jodie. my name is billy sinclair and as

jodimentioned, this book is 42 years in the making because it was an 1966 ai was convicted of capital murder and some seven, eight months later was sentenced to death in the electric chair today louisiana state penitenti@ry. so, naturally i have an increased interest in the death penalty. have for many years. it was a subject of morbid interest while it was on death row because i studied all of the methods of execution. wanted to become familiar with how people are put to death by the state. and had a particular interest becaus that is wt the mo of death or life faced. and so capital punishment has been an oning interest of mine. after i was released from death row in 1972 and in the later years while in prison i became celebrated prison journalist

recipient of a number of prestigious journalism awards including the george polk robert f. kennedy sidy hillman and civil gavel of words, and i found it a common theme in the award for example the poll -- polke award those were for death penalty related iss stories. so i've written extensively about the death penalty and when i was released on pare in 2006, april of 2006, going to work as a paralegal for the law firm once aga i encountered the death penalty for illegal defense firm. so it has been a sort life interest and i guess it will be on tilthe day i die. as a gentleman introducing me a while ago said life without

parole, because i was in 1972 recent to life without parole. 1992 the governor ofouisiana coveted my life sentence to 90 years and after six failed parole attempt so i was finally up paroledn a seventh attempt in april 2006. moved to houston where jodie lived a had a start, went to school, went to community college here ihousto got my skills brought on the texas law as a jailhouse lawyer in the system, the louisiana law so i had to bring my skills up to learn about the texas law and criminal procedure to function as a paralegal and i did that and went to work in 2007 for the law firm here at houston and that is what have been doing since. in addition to working as a paralegal, also post with john to blogs every week on his

website and a number of these blogseal with a death penalty and rated issue to the deat penalty, and in 2008 theupreme court dealt with the death penalty in two ways. first of what said the thr dr pravachol was cotitutional, not cruel and unusual punishment and they also said that the death penalty could not be imposed for offenders convicted of child rape. so publishers dealt the deat pelty was a real topical issue in the country and barack obama part of his campaign, presidential campaign based upon his having reform or work toward reform the ills system s it was sort of natural this book would become to be and we put together collections of essays and materials we had been working on for a number of years and together that is how the

book came to pass, and i would make one final note about the book. tried much like we did i previous we tried to te the story to human drama. we didn't want to read it to simply analy, but statistics and facts and figures we wanted to tell the death penalty through human stories, the human drama of the stories and we hope we achieve that objective. >> i think when it comes to the death penalty i can otherwise fascinated because victims of my husband's case were so intensely devoted over the years making certain he was never released from prison and that he severed the maximum punishment could possibly suffer and they felt terribly cheated because he hadn't been put to death. and so for 25 years over and over again, my hopes, point billy by proxy and waited 25

years for him to came home. i began to wonder where does the death nalty come from? why are we so devoted to it? y do people feel so cated when there is a crime? why is there such a push for the death penalty and i finally decided and that is why i call ithe first chapter the justice jean. i decided the designer has to be in the genes. it would almost have to be in the genes to be that intensend ongoing. and so briefly i will read from this because i subsequently found in "the new york times" and other articles and the literature about the w the brain works after the decade of the 1990's and said to be the decade of the brain because it with an nra -- mri youould see what was going on without breaking open the brain.

we were small aid of like ancestors still on their hind legs and began to struggle all the effort to build. virtually defenseless in a vicious place for wch they had abandoned the safety of the trees. and the fossil record over the long evolutionary march toward pelosi the ins their bones and those of the descendants revealedhe changes that resulted in loss to the rless, upright creatures with uprit frames, larger bones and larger brains. the fossil record reveals little about the thoughts and emotions that coursed through their brains as our ancestors made the long gradual trip toward modern and so we must wonder then once comes the common mind set governs our behavior. science suggests it the fault in this setting the d and social cooperation for survival. imagine a group of comnts one ts members has eaten more than its fair share of the

group's food. now watch the group as a whole brutally assaulting feel better possibly beating it to death. in a place in me food was scarce and life itself was risked to gather at the group might die of starvation if the behavior of the offender went unchecked. such a seemed resonates with loss and we easily understand the need for this punishment. and so as i began to read over time i began to understand the socialcience and seemed to back it up that punishmen or the desire for revenge which ever way justice is rootein altruism which was a strange ing for me to think abo, but that is why it is so strong and it's also been ned by the mri studies of the brain engaging an altruistic behavior the pleasure

centers of the blame might up whene engage in altruistic behavior that benefits the group but those are the same brain centers that light up when you take drugs and so i began to think you could become addicted to the desire to punish a therefore that becomestrongly rooted and out of that rise is torture a some of the other behaor that we seeo that's why the first chapter of this book, and there are other issues in the first chapter that have to deal with the moes and methods of execution some of which are exceedingly grewome and i also have to smile to myself because this has been a topic of public debate for some years now. do we as americans, do we torture and that was with respect to abu ghraib and so forth in the bush administration and now we have a new president

and perspective on that but i would always think to myself because of the death penalty yes, we torture. yes, we do torture other human ingsut people don't think of it in that regard. bu quite frankly this is just very brief on page 228. in 2004, alabama executed a 74-year-old man who suffered from dementia and colon and prostate cancer and vas so weak fellow inmates had to walk into the shower a comb his hair. attorneys for an 89-year-old condemned inmate debilitated by deafness, arthritis and heart disease asked federal court to declare unconstitutional the execution of inmates suffering from alzheimer's disease, dementia and other age related infirmities and then on but submit to you we do, yes we do torture if you insist on putting

individuals like that to death. billy ofourse can deal with some of the terrible botcd executions, death by hanging which results in decapitation. death by guillotine which means there is a horrifying prospect that the brain because it i still oxygenated and the decapitation is so quick the handles of the by and then contemplates the body as the blood gushes out. death and the electri chair of course has said people on fire. and i would say to you that i do absolutely believe that capital punishment is torture and one of little quick note here on page 15 because i think it's important and i will turn the floor over to billy, and that is if you are thinking of altruism

punishment being roud and altruism and the pleasure centers of the brain, i had to conclude ultimely that human begs are morehan e sum o their parts. we are not bound byurvival behavior and the pleasure centers of our brains into an on holy alliance with sadness. we know that capal punishment is a crime. >> thank you, jodie. we tried, and at any point in time while we are making the presentation if anybody has a question if we have touched on an issue that has some personal interest that you what like us to elaborate on please feel free to ask because that's what we are here for, to take questions, not just make a presentation. obviously we are here to try to sell books. [laughter] >< if we have enough intert in the subject.

>> we are also here to interact with the audience. so any, at any point in time if you have any questns please feel free toaise your hand and we will be glad to take those questions. but jodie mentioned the issue of torture. everyone knows in liforn, particularly in california, they have people who are on the process so long you have people on death row in california that have routinely been there 20 or 25 years. you now have in florida five people on florida's death row who have been there more than 25 years, and i think you have to that havbeen on death row over 30 years. it is a sad commentary when you have a justice system that takes people and plas them in a cage like environment and very, very corolled structure with very

few privileges, and in fact in the state of texas on the death w they have no privileges at all. they are vy much locked down almost 24 hours a day except for one hour for showering and exercise. you keep people in these kind of environment for extended periods of time for decades and i will illustrate the torturous aspect. a guy named christopher in 2006 who was executed by the state of ohio and it took them an hour and a half to locate, to try to get a day and they could insert the needle. they even let him get off the dirty to use the restroom and at one point he came back and said could you all just give me something orally to take so that we can get this over with? here is a man trying to cooperate with his own death and speaking of cooperating with

your own, the gas chamber to me is the worst form of execution. i'm not a proponent of the three drug protocol. if there are two methods of execution that are quick and as mane as you can get that is one that they call the soldiers punishment which is a firing uaa very quick and effective and efficient means of putting someone to death as is the electric chair and most states the process in the electric chair takes five to seven minutes to complete whereas in these other modes of methods of execution, for example, the gas chamber, the individual en he is placed in the gashamber is actually encouraged to cooparate with his own execution. they tell him suck in and inhale the fumes and it will be quick. don't fight it becau if you

fight it you will go through the contortions and the very horrible kindf death. so iis a process and the gas chamber once it starts,nce the cyanide pellets are dropped into the acid, it is irreversible. there is no stopping it. and the fous execution in 1960 san quentin that is exactly what happened. he was escorted to the gas chamber and they had dropped the pellets and the chamber already started filling up with the deadly fes. when the phone rang and he received a stay from a federal judge and the word in had to tell the judge of secretary it's too late we have already started the process. so it is irrersible. and another execution, the evans execution and alabama, that was

so gross some they tried to stop it so they called the governor aftethree attempts to kill the man, to attempt to kill the man failed before they started the third atmpt the ward and said can w call the governor to try stop this. but it's too late to stop at!]mp that point. thexecution is already in process and he's not physically did what is certainly brain dead after to charges oflectricity into the brain. and so if you examine the botched executions and even if theexamine a

sedative to prevent pain from the third drug so wn you start examining the monday and executions it is a process o torture no matter how you look at it. >> and that three drug cocktail i think the most striking thing about it is veterinarian's don't use it any more to put animals dowl because they clearly recognize it is a proces that is potentially painful.

when i look at the death penalty i wondered to myself what would you have a sentence on the books you can now te back if you discover a person isav few have someone in pson and you find out they did not rob that bank or they did not commit to that of salt you can release that person. if you find out aftar the fact an individual is innocent there's no way to take bk. you have killed that person and i think that that's one of the things that kind of bothers me in the extreme about the death penalty and you know if you look at the dna accerations most likely we probably have executed innocent individuals and of course they got rid of the death penaltyn england when they established yes, they had hung an innocent man. i think also we would like to

touch on the crime victims' movement and in fact on page 160 in the book is what i literally called my husband's confession. ha talks about the crime he committed and he talks about realizing that alternately the terr of that night after that crime was committed and then for many years later the affect that bullet had othat victim's faly because he realized after being allowed to see the victim's father at age 80 protestingis release at a pardon board hearing that what he had done is he had not killed a man. he had destroyed a family because they never got over it. never got over it. and the old man in age 82 was obviously his grief was flesh so

it's not tt we would shy ay from doing that or say that crime victims do not have flights andhould not be consider, but we do -- i do question certain elements involved in the crime victims' movement. one of them of course being the way that all of that was hijacked by the media to the point that it's very interesting to note while the crime rate in this country was dropping bisect the ticket pcentages through the 1990's we were locking up more and more people and from what i read in criminal justice books there is no correlation necessarily between the two. if your rate of incarceration increase is 1,000 per cent as one author rino claims during that time there's no connection between the two. but the crime victims' movement of course was aided by the

media. the media discovered during that period of time if bleeds it leads and that is what they did with crime and that is the way that they hyped it through that period of time. i will never forget as long as i live trying to cover one night while i was still in the news business what was the lead story and that was the national ups strike settled was over. and that story i had that i had been covering for weeks didn't go on the air first. what wenon their first? a reporter had discovered a drop of dried blood on the sidewalk two days after a drive-by shooting and that's what wen fi they went to her life, panne

down the sidewalk, swed the one spot of blood and then the ups strike went on the air and i had to do two more shots because it was a very important story that is stuck in my mind and i thought to myself this is what happened, if it bleeds it leaves and on what going to the statistics now but you can clearly show everyone in the country believed they were living through an era of unprecedented crime that there had never been crime like that in this country tt wd had to have these prisons and execute people and had to lock everybody up bull r afoul lovable in any way shape or form and the media is to a great extent responsible for that and once politicians figure it out how you can get elected than you have the yy and me going on and that was a hard push for the crime victims' movement because that is legitimately a heart rending story. >> she's talking the corretion

between locking people up and at that time whad growing economy. we had everybody doing good and we know dg the clinton years with the economy was like. it was busing. so it was easy tot pele love and easy to build more prisons and easy to handle the death ntence and fact in 19 was the peak year of pc support for the deathenalty which was 7. now today with the economy having tanked we've got a republican state senator in kansas introducing the law covered by "the new york times" and a number of other national media outlets saying we should do away with death penalty now because it is to delete go too expensive, too costly.

we have made a complete turnaround from the time the society had money and could afford to kill with liberty that now that we don't have the money we want to spare these lives because we have found out that the cost of prosecuting the capitol case and keeping an inmate confid on death row up to decades is far more expensive than puttinghem in prison with life without parole so now we've produced the issue down to its their point, it costs too much and some years ago early 1980's when the prison industry first came to pass and you had all these dramatic increases and prison populations a former corrections secretary gentleman named paul phelps in louisiana was a co-editor of prison magazine annually at the time, and he told myself and the co-editor there will come a time

in this country. i not be here to see it. but when the math will catch up with society. the numbers will overwhelm society and what we see now is the economy is taking and we see states passing measuretaken release hundreds of inmates to save costs. yove got states now saying let's not execute them, it costs too much. the price is too costly and these dire economic straits. >> you know what? this is a sort of hugehock. i am t a lawyer. billy is a very good paralegal after all those years being a jailhouse lawyer now working with the law firm he works with, but i was enormously shocked to find out tt in essence may not keep you out of the death chamber because due process may

not protect you. you can say the supreme court justes have ruled you can't execute the mentally retard. they said okay they changed the age you could execute kids. now they have to be the crime has to be committed when someone is older than the agef 17 so i don't know what you do with the the offenders who were under the age of 18 but the boom line is there have been prosecutors in this country that have argued if you got a fair trial even if it turns out later that you are innocent that is too bad. >> there was a texas case years ago in the 90's i want to say it was handed out by the united states supreme court and in which they did notirectly confront what hs called the issue of actual innocence other words if a death row inmate can show to the court that he is actually innocent is

he entitled to habeas corpus reli because that is the only vehicle and remedy available to a condemned inmate is writ of habeas corpus in to the federal courts trying to seek a new trial based upon some constitutional violation or error that occurred during his trial d you had some years ago assistant attorney general for the state of missouri argued before the supreme court it makes no difference if a person is actually innocent that the state has the right to execute that person it one of the justices mifsud let me get this straight, you are saying if you know this man is innocent but he got a fr trial, procedurally a fair trial he could be executed and the assistant attorney general sd that is precisely what i am saying. so you have a number of

prosecutors who described to that principal to that notion due process does not protecd what is known as actual innocence. if a person goes in and shows the dna acceleration, he was in the person that was doing it, that he did the crime, he goes and it files motion because some of these dna standards have procedures procedures set aside so the guy can file because dna evidence would if he can go in and otherwise ma a claim that he is actually innocent that the state failed to prove his guilt and he c show for ally evidence -- alibi ever evidence. and you have got a lot of -- a cuple of cases that worked their way through the system now they hoped would puthe issue squarely before the united states supreme court. dustin to process protect the

individuals detmined to be actually innocent and to show you there are actually innocent people on death row sce 1973 according to the death penalty information center. 130 inmates has today we use number 126 the number is now 130. 130 innocent people have been exonerated who previously had the death sentee. are you going to tell me if you made 130 mistakes since a 73 you didn't execute an innocent man but on ll we can show through the kind of dna evidence that is now exonerated we can show an innocent man has actually been executed for some kind of dna evidence we will never accept prosecutors and the system will never accept an innocent man has

been executed. >> and i think that one of the cases that are absolutely fascined me and i called it a case of cold-blooded murder on the part of the prosecutor, and that is one fatal shot and two killers and that is a harris county case involving the so-called law and the of parties. willie ray williams confesses, the two go in and there is a fatal shot. >> delicatessen in houston. >> willie ray williams confesses i did it and he is tried and convicted and ultimately executed. then joseph nichols, a partner is tried but in step with a hung jury. as of in the harris county prosecutors go back and say guess what. the first confession was defective. they have been in courtaying

in the first trial the man was guilty. he absolutely confessed. there was absolutely no issue. now they come back and say no that was a false confession. then they convicted the second guy and he ends up being execut under the distortion of the law of the parties. so you say the joseph nichols case is a social and moral tragedy because the organized religious community in harris county black and white didn't have the moral courage to take a public stand against the execution. th wasn't a death penalty case in which the usual pro and con arguments about the capitol punishment were debated. the nichols case was about the social obligation and moral duty to the comnity by its religious leers to step forward and condemn the district attorney's total disregard for the rolph law.

the issue of the joseph chols case there for wasn't so much whether he deserved to live or die. the ise is whether the rule of law, the spirit should have been respected and honored by courts bound to uphold it. the execution of joseph nichols shows how callous prosecutors in texas can be by executing inmates whose cases raise probable claims of innocence, deplorable instance this of counsel and proven examples of a courageous prosecutorial misconduct. the state's death machine marches relentlessly on and its determination to be the death penayapital of the united states and a lot of texans seem to relish that. in that case to me ali e-mail to the district attorney of harris county and i wish i had brought with the protesting the case.

rosenthal e-mail me back and i thought this is unusual. i e-mail him and he mailed me ba. 14 e-mails i finally quit e-mail in him because he was claiming absolutely that they had the right to execute this man and that there was no wrongdoing of any sort on the part of the district attorney so my final e-mail to him said that prosecutors, you kno you can become indicted and prosecuted in harris county if you are presenting this to a grand jury. it's as easy as inviting a ham sandwich, period. a the final e-mail i got back was all caps. we have never invited a ham sandwich and harris county. aughter] that was how they handled that. >> and that is the truth. >> the nichols case was the first or fuel the time that i

know of. i have never heard of or read anyase where the state executed tonmates based upon the same product real pherae each one of them fired the fatal shot. you have the states hav executed on numerous occasions inmates that have been co-conspirators were co-defendants who went in and participated in the crime and under the law you don't have to five-year the fatal shot in order to be convicted and sentend to death and executed. but for a prosecution to say that willie wilams fired the fatal shot and carried out the execution on that theory that he fired the fatal shot because the first trial of nichols ended in mistrials and wanted to come back and make sure they secured the conviction to then turn around and repiate the williams confession and say he

didn't actually do it, nichols is the one that fired the fatal shot and to turnaround and convict him and execute him on that is scandalous. i don't know of any state that has ever managed that. it is a very unique thing. but there is a couple of points. 1. i would like to make before it escapes my attention is jody a while agoas talking about the crime victims' movement and having taken a human life i would be less than remiss if i dare say something about it. and i had as jody guinn veldt the crime victim family in my case for a number of years in fact all the way up until the day i was paroled vigorously opposed by parole and my release from prison in fact they demanded the death sentence be imposed and when the death sentence was not carried out and i received a life sennce i felt cheated and when my life

sentence was commied to 90 years once again they felt the process had failed them and when i was paroled they felt again the process failed because i wasn made to donley so i understand the victims' movemejt from that perspective and their demand for the revenge and the feelings they hadn't had justice and one of the things jody pointed out was 1990 following the heing i was watching and my pardon hearing attracted the local media attention was on the local evening news and i saw the victim's father. it was the first time i had seen him since 1966 when i was convicd and he was in the courtroom during my trial and he looked int the camera and was one of the most devastating comments i have ever heard in my

life because when he looked into the camera he saithat man killed my boy, and to him it came down to that was the only issue that was important to him in this whole process. the death penalty, nothing else mattered to this particular individual accept all i had killed his son. and that is when you learned if you have committed a crime of violence that you are not just hurting d destroying an individual but in a very real way you are destroying a family and at the very fabric of our society. you have taken something away from society and while i spent 40 plus years in