there are two des tohat ory, but that debate could that isn't why i came up here. i came up here becae e obama is coming up here to be involved, they areoing to go up as a group. so they are doing some things to ep this going. >> no, they are. we are going to stop. please, buy him theook here. we are going to keep these independent bookstores afloat. ithe words o to your friends, it's a great gift. and i thank you all, busbo & poets. [applause] re i have my obama chavez book mark. >> rdy shaw is the author editor of beyond con bald

organics is currently executive eckert secular of the tenderloin housing unit. to find out more on randy shaw, visit beyondchron.org. om freedom fest 2,009 in las vegas a panel discussion on where american conservatism is headed and what needs to be done to increasets influence, takingart in the discussn are richard viguerie autr of conservative speech read, john utley of conservative magazine, thomas phillips of eagle publishing and thomas futes member of board ofirectors of eagle publishing. this event is 45 mutes. >> the panel topic today is "the future of conservatism" brighter than we think ? and it's me important now that

are out of power and we have seen significant losses in states across the united states, and obama won in a very decisive victory not only winning electorally with a large mandate, but carrying a very significant filibuster proof senate and a strong majority in the congress. these are serimus times for conservatives and republicans that want to have a twoarty system and see that important for the future of the nation, important foundation for our reblican form of government. today, we have a number of distinguished guests. by way of introduction my name is christopher ruddy, iowa hid wsx media. were one of the new work online media companies in

america. we started abo 20 years ago and reach about 5 million ericans. people from newsmax.com, t we also plished newsmax magazine and a number of health and financial newsletters money to stop, online. we are dedicated to thedea the american public needs to hear both sides of the stories which we see definitely during this period of the obama presidency that the mia isiving the public a one-sided view on important public policy issues. joining today are a number of people that are involved with not only republican politics, conservative politics, but the media as well and i would use the word powerhouses to describe the people onhe panel people today. some of them are not household names but they are nam that rry significant weight and the conservative movement. on the far lef is richard viguerie, considered the godfather of conservative dt

mail. and has created the modern conservative movement by helping dozens and dozens of many of the leading cservative groups in the nation bypass the media and reach out to get donors to support callshishat advocate for conservative principles. next to him is thomas phillips. thoias is a heavyweight conservative media. he is the founder of eagle international, which started with a 1,000-dollar investment in the newsletter business in 1974, and grew that inta newsletter businessn the hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue he is best known as the owner of eagl publishing, wch produce events that ronald reagan said s his most favorite publication and tom has kept it true to the traditions of ronald reagan. and reery which publishes best

seller after best seller that many of you are very familiar with the books they publish. next t tom ase thomas fuentes 3-cd thomas fuentes is a leading republican in the state of california. he was the longtime chairmanf the orge couy republican committee. he is one of the nation's leading and most successful hispanic republicans of businessmen. and also jning is john utley, longtime conservative activist. he is the associate publisher of the american conservative, a monthly, that many of you know pat buchanan writes fothe publication and a number of other conservatives. so i want to thank all of them for joining us, and i think what we would like to do is ask each of the panelists to start with a three to five mine response about at they think about the future of conservatism, and if it is truly brighter than we see

it now. many people have a pessimistic view about things, but i am hoping we will get a silver lining today in this cloud of obama infielder custis washington. so why don't we start with richard and then. >> thank you, chris. i do believe that conservatives will govern america in the future. in my lifetime, i have been involved three times the naonal level of helping conservatives capture the republican party. 1964 wh cold water, 80 with reagan, and in 1994 the gingrich revolution take control of the repuican party but take controlf all of american politics. and when the g is again amas majority party it will

not be led by washington, d.c. insiders. pe who cse the proem cannot cure the problem. they cannot fi it. and we have as conservativ been betrayed. i wrote a book a few years ago called conservative speech rahall george w. bush and other republicanhijacked t conservative cause. and of all of our problems -- we've got problems obviously with unions and mainstream media and soros and this and that, but that's not our real problem and weon three landslide presidential and the 80's with components. the problem quite frankly is the big government republicans, george bush, karl rove,om delay, denney hastert, et cetera, et cetera. our leaders have betrayed us, and we've got to -- we are not going to get to the political promised land in my opinion on till we get w leaders. kelly and conaway, conservative

poster, conducted an exit polls on election day this past election. for words, asking people how they felt about the word republican, democrat, conservative, liberal. theost unpopular was the word republican. the most popular was the word conservative. so at our philosophy is well -- and we've been betrayed by th big vernment republicans. we didn't lose these recent elections. it was big government republicans that lost the elections. the number one mistake we made over this year's became conservatis to many times became an appendage of the republican party. and the number one need we have going is we need new leadership. and we just have to have new leadership, mostlyounger leadership. manways we are like the biblical jews who wandered through the generation until the

past three seen and we are not been to get to the polical promed land. people have made a conscious decision they do not like republican leaders. whether it is tom delay,enney stert, john banner, roy blunt, mitch mcconnell, you name it. they made a conscious dision they do not like the people. they feel that republicans are incompetent and think iraq, think katra they think they are corrupt, think jack abramoff, duke cunningham, mark make, bob foley. there is a long list and so on ll the republican party is open under new management, and is clear to communicate to the american people nothing is going to chang the leadership changes going to come from u those of us here at the grass-roots level. nothing is going to change until people at the grass-roots level assumed the role of leadership.

leadership doesn't start with a governor or senator or president of an organization. it starts with each of us. you, you come and you. >> i thought you were going to give the optimism and i am going to head to the bar after that one -- [laughter] tom? >> thank you. can you hear me? yes. i'd like to endorse what richard said. in fact, for three years of my life i endsed everything that richard said because i was working for him. [laughter] richard was a woerful boss and teacher and mentor. i've learned more about business and politics from him than anyone else but let me again, thank for what y've done for the movement and also thank you on aersonal basis. i do endorse what richard says. one of the things we are familiar with is there is a difference between being conservative and being a republican. those people who put the word republican first unfortunately

often sacrifice the conservive party and don't stand for anything that really matters. they think of the party label. these are th party elders as you might call them, richard. and they don't really adduch to the risk. ere is also a favite term of mind, rhinos, republican in name only, and unfortunately a lot of our leaders don't have those philosophical beliefs those of us in the room pretty much share i would believe. one of the other things i keep hearing about how the replican party needs to modernize and reflect voters' views therefore you've got to compromise between liberalism andonservism or between left and right or between republican and democrat and becomeore like the democrats to attract more votes. ll, that never works. hasn't worked, and that wasn' the way when ronald reagan cam

to power. as he often put it, you know, if you hold up the high standard, articulate your position the voters will come to dond the voters will come to us. we have to run chasing them for leadership. and finally, yes, washington is mostly the problem, not the solution. and i certainly hope that from the states and cities around the country we doet some looking different from t tired old leers the repubcan party has no >> thank you tom phillips. tom fuentes? >> thank you. ladies and gentlemen, joy to be with you today as a republican county chairman for 2years let me tell you it kills me to be in a group of this large and not be a fund raiser. [laughter] negative -- >> we could pass the hat. [laughter] hope for the conservative

movement and it is in the republican party and for those of you that see it differently, i really do think if we are going tbe a movement of hope that hope has to be placed in the party that is the vehicle of the great party system at h proven itself to be the best of systems. you know we have valuesnd principles and ideals as conservaves that have been in times past well enunciated by the party and they have to be well enunciated again. faith, family a freedom consider myself a conservative and why i have worked in the party as a volteer for these many years to accomplish someing, to achieve those goals, those targets, familynd freedom as ideals. we did that in my community to a

point we became the most republican county in arica and i think that is doable in other places. i think that is a means by which we recognize that indeed all politics is local and we have to start at the grassroots muchas richard had said, and there has to be a place at the table for one and all. there has be in place for all elem of the conservative moment at dab. at one time, when those of us to begin walking precincts for barry goldwater in '64 we realized we were in a battle for the eastern establishment that controlled our party, they were not limousine liberals, they were bored rude republicans and we the people to it away from that element. in the west i thinkoday w have a western liberal

establishment. monied ryan ellis will attempt to run the parties today. we have a neefo people of money at ourle but w also have a need for all other segments for libertarians for the christian right and four ethnic communities and hispanics. in california we are soon becoming once again ani do emphasize once again because california started out hispanic state and hispanics are coming back in great numbers. unfortunately we look around this convention and there are not enough people of color. we need to be including them because they are our neighbors. we build all of those elements into the party and then we can recapture party and we need to tu to the think tank's afailable to us today to stimulate and encourage the message of our movement in our party and that we need to invite people of value from all segments of the movement to be a part of that leadership.

>> thank you, tom. john utl? >> thank you, chris. i am john ueyagazine conservative was in your packets. my background is not described there, but i have been active since i was 18 withepublicans but i lived 15 years south america in business. and we have another viewpoint many of also spent many years in foreign countries especially the third world, and wha happened partly in washington republican establishment was there were very few people with much knowledge of the outside even set up a numr of with pages. one might neoconservativ biographies, on the internet, and those who were running the foreign policy, therefore an international expeience was a

semester in england or maybe if they were real sophisticated in pas. and that is -- they were supposedly the knowledgeable people of international affairs. you have washington as run by policy and the think tanks and the congressional staffers and news med and they go back and forth. those are the ones with credentials to get posted in high positions not quite sanguine as richard. i think the system in washington as a corrupt as both parties. e of the words we were against was a war with kosovo. an interesting sidelight to that as republican congressn who were freshmen opposed it but republicans and had been in washington longer supported and i will get a leader in some of the reasons. in talking about conservism we might say forheepublican

leadership people have forgotten perhaps justo define what we mean by conservatives it's the tradition ofdmund burke and russell kirk preserving and building upon successful traditions of civilization, limited government, maintaining values and maintaining fiscal prudence, attacks on government structure which allows freedom and economic prosperity, decent respect for the opinions of mankind. this is what i thinke would all aee what we got with repuicans was something quite different. >> john, do you think that the consensus as it seems here at the panel is conservatism isn't dead, the gallup poll showed and kelly conaway's poll but the gallupoll showed by a factor of 2-1 americans conservative over liberal. and it seems like that bush during the bush years scott

labeled conservative, but he wa't a conservative. he was up until obama the largest social spender in history. he eaged the united states of foreign adventurism that ion't think had great support within the party itself. and i want to throw out the question to be think that the republican party is no longer e vehicle for conservatis or istalvageable and maybe i wi askom phillipto start on that. i've always been skeptical of for party organizations were trying to start something from scratch. i think it is goijg to be easier to go back and turn it around rather than scrapt. just the structure of politics and structure of election and so forth makes it very difficult to be a third party trying to becoma the second party. i will say this, one of the things we don't hear enough

about on our website we don't use the word enough or think about it enough is what tom brought up for the word freedom andojcept of freedom we have all of these debates going oin washington now and have been going on for deces. less and l's you hear about faett freedom for citizenry, freedom for business to build, freedom for all of us to reach our best possible, the best poibleontrution to america t we hear about the safety ne and opportunities to level the country but i don't think we are hearing much about freedom and i think we have to go back and talk about freedom. that is at the country was founded on and is what drove the founding fathers and drove many patriots, and we lost it and we will never expect to get ahold of the leadership of the country if we can't talk about freedom and what it means to each and every individual.

>> richarddo you think that the party is salvageable, the republican pty? >> it has to be, chris because i second with what tom said. and it would be a little bit more blunt. i am not a big fan of either litical party and they hav done what if tom and i and you did in biness we would all go to jail. they break the rules to keep out competition. and because the rules are designed t make sure publicans and democrats stay in office it's almost impossible to think about a successful thirdarty. all of you were going to do is select more liberal democrats. i think, chris, it is entirely possible -- wh is bad for conservative movemt.the there is much out there that is good.

psalm of us, tom, myself hav seen how the conservative movement does come together and ow and expand and added new meers and weventually come back t power when the oth side is inffe, overreaches and that opportunity is there. i said if you're running a conservative publication, whatever it might be and you don't double the size of your organization you probably should consider resigning and let somebody else run the organization. it's a massive opportunity for the conservative movement to grow and expand this ye and th again double next year. >> touching on something that tom fuees said we might have a rebound of conservatism and activism but are we faci a mographic time bomb? conservative, replican or anglo american's and that were not reaching out to people of color and two latinos and blacks voted 98% four obama

understandably because obama was the first african-america serious contender for the presidency. the latinos voted in record numbers for obama in much higher percentage than the date and to thousand four when they voted about 44% for bush. how do we get the latinos, blacks, asians, indians to come over and start --ost of them have conservative values the. >> chris, i think that california as tragic as is the condition of the state today issuing all you use this week with a governor that doesn't know that he's a republican. we have in recent months the passage of proposition 8. proposition eight, to secure marriage be beten one mannd one woman and who helped us pass that? it was the latino and black

community. we need to pick the rightssues and weeed to carry the right banner to offer to the peopl something they aan relate . the community of hispanics belheve in hard work. those are republican values, conservative values. we need to enunciate and welcome them aboard. rall freakin' had plenty of hispanics vong for him. so did george bush i have plenty of hispanics voting for him, and florida helped with hispanics and the first go round, it is not a matter of the demographics as much ashat are we offering to the peopl >> obama has made it clear he wants to legalize a large number of illegal aliens. approximately 12 million in the country even if he legalizes a million wouldn't that be very decisive and national elections and key states and in throwing at lst for the foreseele

future perha for generations power of the federal level in the hands of the democratic party? >> beforthat happens, we need to carry our mesge to the people. you will find i think all of the polls show that legal hispanic immigrants recent illegal immiants just as much as anybody else. we need to tak that to the people taking it to the people, good poin it seems like we have the message and people wanto hear the message, b there is a little thing blocking the abc news, cnn. have i ink fox news's fear and it gives both point of view. how we byps? and richard i know you invented the idea of direct mail to bypass the media. is that still working? tom, is it newspapers and books are we missing something in this age of twitter and facebook? is that the routt?

what t get our message out? >> wel the problem with our message is that we didn't have access to the microphones of the country the last eight years. when your people are perceived to be in power and conservatives not were perceived to be in vernment republicans vere in power and had access to the miophone s we were out in the wilderness at thatime. now that's why it's so important that all of us, those of us here, friends and colleagues out the country, we assumed the mant of leadership because, and we did that in the 70's, chris. i mentioned yesterday some of you perhaps were not here, but coervatives used to meet regularly in the 70's and 80's. many times every wednesday for seven, eight years at my home

for breakfast and we said we were the leadersthe alternatives to the democrats, jimmy carter etc and w he to go back to those days now and again that we a the leaders and we will have accesso the media. i wrote a book a few years a called new alterti media. the first and only book that chronicled how the conservatives finally got access to the microphones of the cntry. it turns out it's an eiting ti to be involved because we do have accesto the media in a way that was unthinkable. >> tom, do you want to add to that >> i would add to that in addition to what richard has said we have got to persuade more busess people who are on our side to invest in media. this conference includes a lot of investment of professionals, a lot of investors and to the look at their portfolio at oil,

gas, manufacturing, whatever the part othe portfolio is is anyone looking at media? one of my friends in washington for insnce has bought small portio of organizations such as general electric and other corporations that are doingad things. public policy wise or media wise d they get up androtest against that. at stockholder meetings they basically make @ lot of ways for the organization. but i think we need to move more into the business community. more into the media ourselves. why did i start building a company? because i had some business tant. i thought where it was needed was in the media world. i seek more people on our site ed to do that, not juschase afr what the stock is doing better than other. i think we have long-term investing in the media.

>> i.t. we would likto take a great question. this is being broadcast on c-span's and you will get your voice heard not just here but across america. >> is this on? thank you. >> you have not mentioned the constitution, and i know that we all,ell, maybe oall there are people that want to destroy the constition because it is the last big barrier to world government, and the constitution has a new breed power. the republicans as well as democrats have way away from their a great power. they have done everything in order to control us. we don't have legislature that is making our law. we havtsars now in departments making rules, regulations, wall

unconstitutional. >> john, do you want to tackle the question? do think the constitution has been eve irated, undermid? >> tha you. >> from another angle i would be to the cozy that it's bverting very much in key aspec we don't often hear talked about. gerrymandering has made the congress 90% loss per for congressmen. that comes out of communist countries. it's unbelievable. a real focus on gerrymandering those are the reasons why the constitution is attacked and also support a major reason for theorruption in washington because these congressmen are so secure in their district. secondly, you have to publicize this very little known something called the military commissions act put in by the republican column last republican congress.

jim beauford has written extensively. that allowed the president to declare martial law and by himself it used to the i think it was the congress and take over the national guard in any state and send it to another state. that is the structure for a dictatorial system. this is being done under our noses so it is very much focusing on these kind of issues. but they come from the structure in washington. and come back to change in washington itself is where we need some changes and the term limits by the way would be one way around. >> there's been a lot of talk, there's been a lot of talk that the republican party doesn't have aeader, that ineeds a leader and we is the leader, rush limbaugh, michael steele, new gingrich. is it really important that th party or the movement of conservatives have a leader who is definable, or is it sort of

an open source the could be multiple leaders and multiple groups the same effect and turn the country around and maybe take back the whi house and the congress over the next few years? who wants to grab that? >> and leadership there'slenty of time. this time four years ago few americans that new barack obama, there's plenty of time for us to involve a leader for the next presidential cycle. in the meantime, we all as volunteers, as activists in the moment we have to take a role, ha to engage and build within our communies the problem i think that has happened in our old movement through the years is a lot o conservatives to washington to d good and they did very well and they staied and bought into the system and they bought into the benefits of the system

and of power. need to return to a movement of activists in our own community. >> some people have said reaganism isead. a number of conservate leaders said tom delay said we don need reagan any more. we need a new path. i think all of us have lived for the past 40, 50 years. about john kennedand the last election barack obama w grabbing on. bufor peace as the democrats should get rid of john kennedy. and his memory. so, do you think that reagan is important for the future? >> certainly is important. we should keep his memory alive and his vision and goal for america. but lete useerhaps a baseball example, chr. the great movie at least i thought it was gre, build it and they will come. right now if ronald reagan showed up we wldn't be prepared to support him. the infrastructure isn' fair.

we don't have the organizations right now at the grassoots level, state level, a national level. wheneagan ran for president in 1976 and then 1980 we had something called the new right, the oldight a when we h a big movement out there that could support him he could come into oshkosh at 11:00 at night and made hundreds of people that have gotten together in a few hours to welcome him to oshkosh. so the first that s to happen is w have tot the gra-roots level rebuild the movement and then the next leader will appear. >> i think of someone on the scene right now that control this type of crowds, she's very controversial. we know her name is sarah palin. do youee her asomeone who can potenally built that grass-roots movement now that she's leaving the governorship of alaska's? tom? >> she didn't call me before she made the announcement. i don't have much to share. i don't know what that agenda

is. >> fielder, we have a question. >> can you hear me? i just want steer the sable but in the direction of the average age of everybody at this conference and i rlize there's a lot of younger people and i appreciate that. i know i became a conservative from reading george will one y. it was enough to get me going in a different direction. the william f. buckley, george wells. where are they whacks to any of you want to commt on the intellectual writings of people that might influence younger people to become part of this? because right now i feel are running out k those kind of people or at least that is my impression. and i don't know if anybody wants to comment on that. >> i would lov to take on that one and maybe it is an opportunity for a commercial. i see your fellow at the claremont institute. we published a clermt review of books under the directorship of d chaes keisler

i think on a quarterly basis the clermont review of books is publishing bill buckley quality and commentary on our society and on the politof the day. we have in heritage and ayaan clermont an abundance of conservative intellectuals today offering contemporary address, addressing the issues of the day. that's available a i think that we need to turno fellows like my colleague tom phillips th regnery books, with red state, human events.com. it's outhe and available. we need to plug into it and encourage others to read it. >> we had a conversation abt a month ago on the train coming from d.c. to new york and you said to me youhought obama was

the most serious adversary the republican party ever faced and you said what was different about this fellow is unlike other democrats it had opposed the republican party was political opposition. but that obama's intense sms to be to put the republican party out of buriness. how do we counter that? we know the is a demographic problem, there is an age problem, culture gapith yog people. and could it be john fund has made the point that he would like america tbe like a chicago where you have a republican party but it's there as a sort ofendix for show and you have a one-party city. and is tt something that we have as a potential threat? >>t is frighteni all costs. this is the most serious opponent we have ever faced. just a side note to those that say we need to moderate re and move to the center and be a

biggerent, with eckert, mocrats nominated the most left-wing candidate known to any major political party. he's done nothing but a select big governments, socialist types. people say sometimes is about a cialist? to me speaking for myself that isn't a serious question. of course he's a socialist. the question is he a marxist. one of the editors called me today. but t me just say that there are two institutions. designed to keep politicians and government on the streets and narrow. one, the media and we kn they left the sidelines as referees and joined the other side. that leaves the nonprofit community serious danger of being totally silenced or co-op by this administration. it is very serious and they know what to do with power. five t$10 billn of the stimulus money is designated directly for nonprofit

organizations. the day the stimulus bill paed th american heart association put out a press release praising the stimulus package talking about wonderful thing this is now repair schools that have fallen to disrepair and get people's unemployment checks have stopped they are going to start getting checks ain advancing the obama anda and this is going to happen with the cancer soc, arthritis you will see the entire nonprofit community wanting some of this money and they are going to be silenced or coopted. that is one of 100 things they are going to do to use. >> john yowant to add something? >> the topic is not as bleak as it might appear. and believe me isn because theyhe democrats are starting to make a lot of mistakes. and they will be coming fast. so it's not -- it's not so bad for us in thatense. let me mention a few.

what is oil. they have curtailed charley for l in america. they have some crazy hatred if you will almost no drillg offshore of the wood was approved by the congress. i have been up in alaska, incredible amounts of oil up there all over. we have oil. natural gas.ndant. well, natural gas is a new technology as an abundance of it. you add to th the expense obama is already dropping in the poll since the newspapers. the expense of thhealth care program is not directed at cutting costs. theye goto put the we stand cost. wasteful spending geral motors and taking that over it is set a precedent of great damage to the bond market's that in the future the government ss it is a national emergency -- >> i think we have a pretty good picture at he is radically

changing the structure of -an america. this lady that's been waiting patitly. >> i think it is pretty obvious we havan old guard of conservativeeople who are suessful in business which our government is a business and people forget that. and we need some one of experience, but we also need number people to form a plan. i have read last week obama sent out 13 million e-mails to people in support of his health car initiatives and ideas and to get that passed throughnd it's also much the 13 million e-ils wilky said. i don't know because i did not get one, but it is the campaigng and that is i think something of the conservative party is missing is if you fail

your plan to fail and our current president never stopped campgning what it is for his next election or a liberal agenda there's a plan behind it. so along with the wisdom and knowledge of our party the conservative party carries we ed a plan together and it's not too soon to start that. we need to tart it now before all of this will so over-the-top. >> there's a wonderful pamphlet that david horowitz ote and i am sure many of you are familiar with him in los angeles called the art political warfare. i suggest this. it's about strategy. basically david makes the point the side that has a strategy will almost always win against the side that doesn't he a strategy. and so you're point iwell taken. there needs to be a strategy. i would emphasize again that for conservatives it's not enough to say you're against obama and

maybe there will be a backlash, maybe not. roosevelt w four elections and the economy got worse and worse during the 30's. what republicans need is a strategy that also has a positive futur and positive image. talk about what the free enterprise system does. there is a reaso whymerica represents less than 5% of the worldopulation but 25 -- 27% of the world's gdp. there's something goi on here weave been doing rig. socialism is goi to hurt that. >> i wanted to ask the speakers if they saw tension or contradiction in the conservative movement between on the one hand libertarian's whose stress freedom individual choice and sort of moral majority, family values side of the conservative movement who i think are headed off in a somewhat different direction and

if you do see tension or contradiction how do nservatives work t resolve that or overcome it? >>ete start with richard on that and that might the last questi because our time is up and i am sure the nel will ta questions after if you want to comto the podium. but richard can boue that around. >> chris, let me quickly comment on the leedy who asked the question -- made a comment. i personally have my own eight page plan and i am working that plan and i have colleagues and friends who have plans and we are meeting regularly. quite frankly in washington and around the country. so, don't count on those national conservatives to save us. but i want you to know things are happening. plans are being developed and meetings are happeng and things -- there is perhaps some light at the end of the tunnel.

in terms of the tension course there's tension on the left side. i mean, roosevelt put together a coalition of groups of people who hate each other. we have suffered for worse with blacks and union leaders and jews and intellectuals. these peop hateach other but this got 60% of the action, 70% and that ithe way -- ing frank meyer discipl frank meyer was a great anti-communist leader in the 50's, 60's, 70's and he talked about fusion and some. i commend is to all of you and that is the only way we will me to powers bringing this all together as ronald reagan did and weon't have to try to square the circle. traditional conservatives would never totally agree with libertarians and libertarians will never totly agreed with this group or that. we have to do the best we can and move forward. >> tom, you want to put some

punctuation? >> i was about ready to mengin frank meyer who was a pillar of the foundation of the conservative movement for the "national review." he showed how we could bridge the gap beten the libertarians and the traditional conservatives. and frkly we have to realize if you are a little,xcuse me, libertarian you've got more in common with the old conservatives than with the left and t reverse is true. we nd the help of libertarians as well as conservative traditionalists to ve any chance of providing leadersp for th country. so i am a big fusion test myself. >> i want to thank the distinguished panel for a vy insightful time and offering their time. i know tom came from california, both tom's came from southern california today to be with us. and i appreciate all of you for spending the time to listen and hopefully we will all work for

building a better and stronger and freer america. [applause] thank you. >> richard viguerie is a pioneer of direct mailunraising and conservative conservativehq.com. his books include america's return how conservatives use new an alternative media to take power, and the new right. john utley is this is the publisher of american conservative magazine and rights for antiwar.com. previously with knight ridder and voice of america. thomas phillips founded eagle question, the parent of regnery publishing in '93. he's also the chairman and president of philips international incgrporated. thomas fntes is with the claremont institute for the study of statesmship and potical philophy. and former chairman of the republican party orange county california. this talk was part of the freedom fest 2009. to find out more, this it

freedomfest.com. are here at the ordering council for social studies conference at the confederated tribes of the grant from community of oregon. speaking with robert miller, author of native americans discovered and concord. thomas jefferson, lois and clark and manifest destiny. mr. miller to your book talks about the doctrine of discovery. why don't you tell us a little bit about that? >> the doctrine of discovery is the legal pnciple that scribes how euro@eans ce and claimed the land from the native people. the doctor and was literally developed by the church and portugal and spain in late 1400's and european countries used this legal principalo plead lans and africom nisha and the americas. the classic painting or example of explorers coming in scking their flag that in various

paintings they were thinking of for a safe voyage across the ocean. that might be true. but europeans were also engaged in a legal procedure when they were putting their flags and cross is in the soil. they literally were claing the land for their own king and country. >> is the doctor of discovery still intact discussions today? >> absolutely. the united states supreme court adopted the stock dropped discovery and 1823 supreme court case called johns macintosh. and e court decided to borrow this iernational law the european companies to meet the country's divided how they would clean the world so as part of american law we adopted that in is case, johnson v macintosh to see what rights tribes held in their own land and even though that is823 supreme court case and the doctrine of discoverin itself is

500-years-old that is still the law in america today for indian trib and for some indi people. the land at tribes zero with for example, the united states is considered to be the legal owner of the land, prervation etc and tried is called the beneficial owner so this doctrine of discovery still applies in indian country today and in fact guess what russia did august 2nd, 2007. it of course planted a flag 2 miles below the surface of the arctic ocean. plainly russia is using this charade if we want tcall it that as a plan for the rources russia claims is there or wall know is there, 10 billion tons of oil and gas. >> in the former to your book by elizabeth she writes history is an elusive and misleading discipline and it's practically impossible to find unbiased history and one that is not filtered through preconceived notions and that is why this book is still important. how is your book different from

other history books on he suect? >> i am a native person, cizen of the eastern shawnee tribe of oklahoma a i t indian law and have for over 50 years so i do look at historical events through a different light perhaps than someone else. i also a lawyer and a professor, so i see events that happened in american history through their legal meaning. and so the doctor of discovery is somhing i'm very familiar wi a so when i tried to point me to be involved in the lewis and clark bicentennial i immediately thought i would write about the doctrine of discover what did thomas jefferson think about it? wh did listen and clark do that looked like the doctor of discery when they were in the oregon country literally claiming the land for the united stat? so hisry than it depends it is importantho writes history because we wonder why minorities d females for example and indian people are left out of history that is bec@use a whole lot of european males wrote the

history books. it depends on who writes the history what they might phasize or what they think is most important. one viewer of my book said that it was a revisionist history but he sa revisionism in the best way possible. because it gave a n slant on american history on thomas jefferson's ideas about the louisiana purchase and about the lewis and clarkxpedition and then out mifest destiny itself. so what i hope my book does is purchased from a difference and give another viewpoint that has been ignored. >> what you think the government needs to do today to write some of the earlier rulings? >> the doctor of discovery has been american law for over 500 years. in the conclusion of my book i really don't have a fabulou suggestion on what we can do

about the doctrine of discovery today. t i do give a couple simple suggestions that maybe congres could appoint a blue-ribbon commission that tribes are involved or maybe some congressional committee could examine the remnants of the doctrine of discovery that are still part of american indi call today. why are we still using this eurocentri ethnocentric bridge the joyce lee inspired law to mit the rights of indian tribes and indian people in their own properties? today. so what we can do,t can't be something to radic because we don't like to change property law to radically and it has bee the proper lawn the western world the past 500 or 600 years. >> and you might in the end of your but you're confident there is more evidence the government us doctrine of discovery and since he finished writing you've been able to find more evidence. where do you go from here? are you still conducting research on this? >> yes, in fact i just signed a contract to write another book

with an australian origine woman who is a professor in sydney, a professor and new zealand, and a first nations woman who is a professor in canada. and for sophos are gng to write a book about how england used the doctrine of discovery. what sort of prompt us to do this is our four countries are the only four in the united nations who voted against the declaration on the rights of indigenous people in september of007. we found it very unique only four nations in the united nations voted against the rights of indigenous people. and so talked about what do those four nations have in common? obviously it is english colonization using these doctrine of diovery principles against the native people and so that is my next project in the further research in the doctne of discory. >> we ha been speaking with robert miller author of need of america discovered and concord,

thomas jefferson lewis clark and manifest destiny. thank you. > do you know you can view booktv programs online? go to booktv.org. type the name of the author, subject or book in the search area in the upper left-hand corner of the page. select the watch link. now you can ew the entire program. you might also explorehe recently viewed book tv box or programs box to fight and you recent programs. we are here at the oregon council for social studies conference grande ronde oregon with stephen dowe beckman.

>> i felt native americans needed to tell their own story, and tir voices haven't been well heard, nor readily visible. for 45 years i gathered materials and dropp theand file folders they became this volume. >> and how long have you been working on this? >> the booally started in 1964, and culminated when it was published byregon state iversity press. but in addition to the documents, the volume has a series of essays that provide the context and chronology that introduces each the periods in the federal indian policy. >> you talk a little bit about in the introductionbout an event in 1972 that was kind of the gesis of the book. why don't you tell us about that event. >> welcome and 1792 in the enlightenment to t south pacific european and asian states and ultimately the united

states of america made contact with the native peoples of this region. to meet one of the electrifying moments was sitting in the british muse library and london and reading the diaries of the vancouv expedition. in one of the books appeared the board shrilasi. i contacted vict and i said i have these words written in 1792. can you give me a translation. and victor said the me and my friends, my friends, i am pleased to meet you. this is a term of greeting. and that was i thought a fascinating way to document first contact, first encounter, first documented relationship between europeans and native americans and oregon. my friends, my friends, we are so pleased to meet you. >> the titles chapters

include removal and reservations, walking to a white man's land and the disastrous policy of termination, but in donner happier note with the last chapter titled restoration of hope whh talks about the last 30 yrs of the 20th century. where is the u.stoday the relationship with american indians and have we seen much we'veeen fit to improvementn terms of federal policy and program. it reay commenced with indian self-determination educational assistance act when tribes were given morend more por to take charge of their own destiny. tribes blogger hatari with bureau of indian affairs but instead they could take money and some of their own administrathon and contract for e services they wanted to read this in power but also came in the area of education where tribal people were able to wk with local school districts to develop curriculum, prínce and teher training programs, acquired curricular materials everything from text t