this eve is 45 minutes. >> the panel topic today is "the future of conservatism" brighter than wehink ? and it's more important now that are out of power and we have seen significant losses in states across the united states, and obama won in a very decisive victory not only winng electorally with a large mandate, but carrying a very significant filibuster proof senate and a strong majority in the congress. these are serious times for conservatives d republicans that want to have a two-party

system and see that important for the future of the nation, important foundation for our republican form of government. today, we have a number of distinguished guests. by way of introduction my name is christopher ruddy, iowa hid newsmax media. we are one of the new work online media companies in america. we started about 20 years ago and reach about 5 million americans. people from newsmax.com, but we also published newsmax magazine and a number of health and financial newsletters money to stop, online. we are dedicated to the idea the american public needs to hear both sides of the stories which we see definitely during this period of the obama presidency that the media is giving the public a one-sided view on important public policy issues. joining today are a number of people that are involved with not only republican politics,

conservative politics, but the media as well and i would use the word powerhouses to describe the people on the panel people today. some of them are not houseld names but they are names that carry significant weight and the conservative movement. on the far left is richard viguerie, considered the godfather of conservative direct mail. and has created the modern conservative movement by helping dozens and dozens of many of the leading conservative groups in the nation byps the media and reach out to get donors to support calls this that advocate foronservative principles. next to him is thomas phillips. thomas is a heavyweight conservative media. he is the founder of eagle international, which started with a 1,000-dollar investment in the newsletter business in 1974, and grew thatnto a

newsletter business in the hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue. he is best known as the owner of eagle publishing, whi produces events that ronald reagan said was his most favorite publication and tom has kept it true to the traditions of ronald reagan. and regnery which publish best seerfter best seller tha many of you are very familiar with the books they publish. next to tom ase thomas fuentes 3-cd thomas fuentes is a leading republican in the state of california. he was the lonime chairman of thorange county republican committee. he is one of the nation's leading and most successful hispanic republicans of businessmen. and also joining is john utley, longtime conservative activist. he is the associate publisher of the american conservative, a

monthly, that many of you know patuchanan writes for the publication and a number of other conservatives. so i want to thank all of them for joining us, and i think what we would like to do is ask each of the panelists to start with a three to five minute response about what they think about the future of conservatism, and i it is truly brighter than we see it now. many people have a pessimistic view about things, but i am hoping we will get a silver lining today in is cloud of obama infielder custis washington. so why don we start with richard and then. >> thank you, chris. i do believe that cservatives will govern america in the future. in my lifetime, i have been involved three times the national level of helping conservative capture the republican pty.

1964 with cold water, 80 with reagan, and in 1994 the gingrich revolution take control of the republican party but take control of all of american politics. and when the gop is again americas majority party it will not be led by washgton, d.c. insiders. people who cause the problem caot cure the problem. they cannot fix it. and we have as conservatives been betrayed. i wrote a book a few years ago called conservative speech rahall george w. bush and other republicans hijacked t conservative cause. and of all of our problems -- we've got problems obviously with unions and mainstream med and soros and this and that, but that's not our real problemnd we won three landslide presidential and the 80's with

components. the proble quite frankly is the big government republicans, george bush, karl rove, tom delay, denney hastert, et cetera, et cetera. our leaders have betrayed us, and we've got to -- we are not going to get to the political promised land in my opinion on till we get new leaders. kelly and conaway, conservative poster, conducted an exit polls on election day this past election. for words, asking people how they felt about the word republican, democrat, consvative, liberal. the most unpopular was the word republican. the most popular was the word conservative. so at our philosophy is well -- and we've been betrayed by the big government republicans. we didn't lose these recent elections. it was big government republicans that lost the elections. the number one mistake we made over this year's became

conservativeto many times became an appendage of the republican party. and the number one need we have going is we need new leadership. and we just have to havnew leadership, mostly younger leadership. in many ways we are like the biblical jews who wandered through the generation until the past three seen and we are not been to get to the political promised land. people have made aonscious decision they do not like republican leaders. whether it is tom delay, denney hastert, john banner, roy blunt, mitch mcconnell, you na it. they made a conscious decision they do not like these people they feel that republicans are incompetent and think iraq, think katrina they think they are corrupt, think jack abramoff, duke cunningham, mark make, bob foley. there is a long list and so on

till the republican party is open under new management, and is clear to communicate to the american people nothing is going to change the leadership changes going to come from us. those of us here at the grass-roots level. nothing is going to change until people at the grass-roots level assumed the role of leadership. leadership doesn't start with a governor or senator or president of an organization. it starts with each of us. you, you come and you. >> i thought you were going to give the optimism and i am going to head to the bar after that one -- [laughter] to >> thank you. can you hear me? yes. i'd like to endorse what richard said. in fact, for three years of my life i endorsed everything that richard said because i was working for him. [laughter] richard was a wonderful boss and teacher and mentor. i've learned more about business

and politics from him than anyone else but let me again, thank you for what you've done for the movement and also thank you on a personal basis. i do endorse what richard says. one of the things we are familiar wh is there is a difference between being conservative and being a republican. those people who put the word republican first unfortunately often sacrifice the conservative party and don't stand for anything that really matters. they think of the party label. these are the party elders as you might call them, richard. and they don't really add much to the risk. there also a favorite term of mind, rhinos, republicain name only, and unfortunately a lot of our leaders don't have those philosophical beliefs those of us in the room pretty much share i would believe. one of the other things i keep hearing about how the republican

party needs to modernize and reflect voters' views therefore you've got to compromise between liberalism and conservatism or between left and right or between publican and democrat and become more like the democrats to attract more votes. well, that never works. hasn't worked, and that wasn't the way when ronald reagan came to power. as he often put it, you know, if you hold up the high standard, articulate your position the voters will come to do and the voters will come to us. we have to run chasing them for leadership. and finally, yes, washington is mostly the problem, not the solution. and i certainly hope that from the states and cities around the country we do get some looking different from the tired old leaders the republican party has no >> thank you tom phillips. tom fuentes?

thank you. ladies and gentlemen, joy to be with you today as a republican coty chairman for 20 years let me tl you it kills me to be in a group of this large and not be a fund raiser. [laughter] negative -- >> we could pass the hat. [laughter] hope for the conservative movement and it is in the republican party and for those of you that see it differently, i really do think if we are going to be a movement of hope that hope has to be placed in the party that is the vehicle of the greatarty system that has proven itself to be the btf systems. you know we have values and principles and ideals as conservativeshat have been in times pastell enunciated b the party and thehave to be well enunciated again

faith, family and freedom consider myself a conservative and why i have worked in the party as a volunteer for these many years to accomplish something, to achieve those goals, tho targets, family and freedom as ideals. we did that in my community to a point we became the most republican county in america and i think that is doable in other places. i think that is a means by which we recognize that indeed all litics is local and we have to start at the grassroots much as richard had said, and there has to be a place at the table for one andll. there has to be in place for a elements of the conservative movement at table. at one time, when those of us to

begin walking precincts for barry goldwater in ' we realized we were in a battle for the eaern establishment that controlled our party, they were not limousine liberals, they were bored rude republicans and we the people took it away from that element. in the west i think today we have a western liberal establishment. monied ryan ellis will attempt to run the parties today. we he a need for people of money at our table but we also have a need for all other segments for libertarians for the christian right and four ethnic communities and hispanics. in california we are soon becoming once again and i do emphasize once again because california started out hispanic state and hispanics are coming back in great numbers. unfounately we lookround this convention and there are not enough people of color. we need to be including them because they are our neighbors. we build all of those elements

into the party and then we can recapture party and we need to turn to the think tank's available to us today to stimulate and encourage the message of our movement in our party and that we need to invite people of value from all segments of the movement to be a part of that ldership. >> thank you, tom. john utley? >> thank you, chris. i am john utleyagazine conservative was in your packets. my background is not described there, but i have been active since i was 18 with republicans but i lived 15 years in south amepica in business. and we have another viewpoint many of also spent many years in foreign countries especially the thirworld, and what happened partly in washington republican

establishment was there were ry few people with much knowledge of the outside even set up a number of with pages. one might neoconservative biographies, on t internet, and those who were running the foreign policy, therefore an international experience was semester in england or maybe if they were real sophisticated in paris. and that is -- they were supposedly the knowledgeable people of international affairs. you have washington as run by policy and the think tanks and e congressional staffers and news media and they go back and forth. those are the ones with credentials to get posted in high positions not quite sanguine as richard. i think the system in washington as a corrupt as both parties. one of the uords we were against was a war with kosovo.

an interesti sidelight t that as republican congressman who were freshmen opposed it but republicans and had been in washington longer supported and i will get a leader in some of the reasons. in talking about conservatm w might say for the republin leadershipeople hav forgotten rhaps just to define what we mean by conservatives it's the tradition of edmund burke and russell kirk preserving and building upon successful traditions of civilization, limited government, maintaining values and maintaing fiscal prudence, attacks on government structure which allows freedom and economic prosperity, decent respect for the opinions of mankind. this is what i think we would all agree. what we got with republicans was

something quite different. >> john, do you think that the consensus as it seems here at the panel is conservatism isn't dead, the gallup poll showed and kelly conaway's poll buthe gallup poll showed by a ftor of 2-1 americans conservative over liberal. and it seems like that bush during the bush years scott labeled conservative, but he wasn't a conservative. he was up until obama the largest social spender in history. he engaged the united states of foreign adventurism that i don't think had great support within the party itself. and i want to throw out the question to be think that the republican party is no longer the vehicle for conservatism or is it salvageable and maybe i will ask tom phillips to start on that. >> i've always been skeptical of for a party organizations wer trying to start something from

scratch. i think it is going to be easier to go back and turn it around rather than scrap it. just the structure of politics and structure of election and so forth makes it very difficult to be a third party trying to become the second party. i will say this, one of the things we don't hear enough about on our website we don't use the word enough or think about it enough is what tom brought up for the word freedom and concept of freedom we have all of these debates going on in washington now and have been going on for decades. less and let's you hear about fawcett freedom for citizenry, freedom for business to build, freedom for all of us to reach our best possible, the best possible contribution to america but we hear about the safety nets and opportunities to level the country but i d't think we

are hearing much about freedom and i think we have to go back and talk about freedom. that is what the country was founded on and is what drove the foundi fathers and drove many patriots, and we lost it and we will never expect to get ahold of the learship of the country if we can't talk about freedom and what it means to each and every individual. >> richard, do you think that the party is salvageable, the republican party? >> it has to be, chris, because i second with what tom said. and it would be a little bit more blunt. i am not a big fan of either political party and they have done what if tom and i and you did in business we would all go to jail. they break the rules to keep out competition. and because the rul are designed to make sure republicans and democrats stay

in office it's almost impossible to think about a successful third party. all of you were going to do is select more liberal democrats. i think, chris, it is entirely possible -- what is bad for america is good for the conservative movement. there is much out there that is good. psalm of us, tom, myself have seen how the conservative movement ds come together and grow and expand and added new members and we eventually come back to power when the other side is in office, overreaches and that opportunity is there. i said if you're running a conservative publication, whatever it might be d you dn't double the size of your organization you probably should consider resigning and let somebody else run the organization. it's a massive opportunity for the conservative movement to grow and expand this year and then again double next year.

>> touching on something that tom fuentes said we mig have a rebound of conservatism and activism but are we facing a demographic time bomb? people tend to vote conservative, republican or anglo american's and that were not reaching out to people of color and two latinos and blacks voted 98% four obama understandably becausebama was the first african-american serious contender for the presidency. the latinos voted in record numbers for obama in much higher percentage than the date and to thousand four when they voted about 44% for bush. how do we get the latinos, blacks, asians, indians to come over and start -- most of them have conservative values the. >> chris, i think that california as tragic as is the condition of the state today

issuing all you use this week with a governor that doesn't know that he's a republican. we have in rent months the passage of proposition 8 proposition eight, to secure marriage be between one man and one woman and who helped us pass that? it was the latino and black community. we need to pick the right issues and we need to carry the right banner to offer to the people mething they can relate to. the community of hispanics believe in hard work. those are republican values, conservative values. we need to enunciate and welcome them aboard. rall freak' had plenty of hispanics voting for him. so did george bush i have plenty of hispanics voting for him, and florida helped with hispanics and the first go round, it is

not a matter of the demographics as much as what are we offering to the people. >> obama has made it clear he wants to legalize a large number ofllegal aliens. approximately 12 million in the country even if he legalizea million wouldn't that be vy decisive and national elections and key states and in throwing at least for the foreseeable future perhapsor generations power of the federal level in the hands of the democratic party? >> before that happens, we need to carry our message to the people. you will find i think all of the polls show that legal hispanic immigrants recent illegal immigrants just as much as anybody else. we need to take that to the people. >> taking it to the people, good point. it seems like we have the message and people want to hear the message, but there is a little thing blocking the abc news, cnn. we have i think fox news's fear

and it gives both points of view. how we bypass? and richard i know you invented the idea of direct mail to bypass the media. is that still working? tom, is it newspapers and books are w missing somethi in this age of twitter and facebook? is that the routt? what to get our messa out? >> well, the problem with our message is that we didn't have access to the microphones of the country th last eight years. when your people are perceived to be in power and conservatives not were perceived to be in government republicans were in power and had access to the microphones, so we were out in the lderness at that time. now that's why it's so important

that all of us, those of us here, friends and colagues about the country, we assumed the mantle of leadership because, and we did that in the 70's, chris. i mentioned yesterday some of you perhaps were not here, but conservatives used to meet regularly in the 70's and 80's. many times every wednesday for seven, eight years at my home for breakfast and we said we were the leaders, the alternatives to the democrats, jimmy carter etc and we have to go back to those days now and again that we are the leaders and we will have access to the media. i wrote a book a few yrs ago called new alternati media. the first and only book that chronicled how the conservatives finally got access to the microphones of the country. it turns out it's an exciting time to be involved because we do have access to t media in a way that was unthinkable. >> tom, do you want to add to

that? >> i would add to that in addition to what richard has said we have got to persuade more business people who are on our side to invest in media. this conference includes a lot of investment of professionals, a lot of investors and to the lo at their porolio at oil, gas, manufacturing, whatever the part of the portfolio is is anyone looking at media? one of my friends in washingn for instance has bought small portions of organizations such as general electric and other corporations that are doing bad things. public policy wise or media wise and they get up and protest against that. at stockholder meetings they bacally make a lot of ways for the organization. but i think we need to move more into the business community. more into the media ourselves.

why did i start building a company? because i had some business talent. i thought where it was needed was in the media world. i seek more people on our site need to do that, not just chase after what the stock is doing better than other. i think we have long-term investing in the media. >> i.t. we would like to take a eat question. this is being broadcast on c-span's and you will get your voice heard not just here but across america. >> i this on? thank you. >> you have not mentioned the constitution, and i know that we all, well, maybe oall ere are people that want to destroy the cstitution because it is the last big barrier to world government, and the constitution has a new breed power.

the republicans as well as democrats have way away from theia great power. they have done everything in order to control us. we don't have legislature that is making our law. we have tsars now in partments making rules, regulations, wall unconstitutional. >> john, do you want to tackle the question? do think the constitution has been eve is rated, undermined? >> thank you. >> from another angle i would be to the cozy that it's subverting very much in key aspects we don't ofden hear talked about. gerrymandering has made the congress 90% loss per for congressmen. that comes out of communist countries. it's unbelievable. aeal focus on gerrymandering

those are the reasons why the constitution is attacked and also support a major reason for the corruption in washington because these congressmen are so secure in their district. secondly, you have to publicize this very little known something called the military commissions act put in by the republican column last republican congress. jim beauford has written extensively. that allowed the president to declare martial law and by himself it used to the i think it was the congress and take over the national guard in any state and send it to another state. that is the structure for a dictorial system. this is being done under our noses so it is very much focusing on these kind of issues. but they come from the structure in washington. and come back to change in washington itself is where we ed some changes and the term limits by the way would be one way around.

>> there's been a lot of talk, there's been a lot o talk that the republican party doesn't have a leader, that it needs a leader and we is the leader, rush limbaugh, michael steele, new gingrich. is it really important that the party or the movement of conservatives have a leader who is definable, or is it sort of an open source the could be multiple leaders and multiple groups the same effect and turn the country around andaybe take back th white house and the congress over the next few years? who wants to grab that? >> and leadership there's plenty of tim this time four years ago few americans that new barack obama, there's plenty of time for us to involve a leader for the next presidential cycle. in the meantime, we all as volunteers, as activists in the movement we ha to take a role,

have to engage and build within our communities. the problem i think that has happened in our o movement through the years is a lot of conservatives went to washington to do good and they did very well and they stayed and bought into the system and they bought into the benefits of the system and of power. we need to return to a movement of activists in our own community. >> some people have said reaganism is dead. a number of conservative leaders said tom delay said we don't need reagan y more. we need a new path. i think all of us have lived for the past 40, 50 years. about john kennedy and the last election barack obama was grabbing on. but for peace as the democrats should get rid of john kennedy. and his memory. so, do you think that reagan is important for the future? >> certainly is important.

we should keep his memory alive and his vision and goal for america. but let me use phaps a baseba example, chris. the great movie at least i thought it was great, build it and theyill come. right now if ronald reagan showed up we wouldn't be prepared to support him. the infrastructure isn't fair. we don't have the organizations right now at the grass-roots level, state level, a national level. when reagan ran for president in 1976 and then 1980 we had something called the new right, the old right a when we had a big movement out there that could support him he could come into oshkosh at 11:00 at night and made huneds of people that ha gotten together in a few hours to welcome him to oshkosh. so the first that has to happen is we have to at the grass-roots level reild the movement and then the next leader will appear. >> i think of someone on the

scene right now that control this type of crowds, she's very controversial. we know her name is sarah palin. do you see her as someone who can potentially built that grass-roots movement now that she's leaving the governorship of alasks? tom? >> she didn't call me before she made the announcement. i don't have much to share. i don't know what that agenda is. >> fielder, we have a question. >> can you hear me? i just want to steer the sable but in the direction of the average age of everybody at this conference and i realize there's a lot of younger people and i appreciate that. i know i became a conservative from reading george will one day. it was enough to get me going in a different direction. the william f. buckley, george wells. where are they whacks to any of you want to comment on the intellectual writings of people that might influence younger people to become part of this?

because right now i feel we are running out of those kind of people or at least that is my impression. and ion't know if anybody wants to comment on that. >> i would love to take on that one and maybe it is an opportunity for a commercial. i see your fellow at the claremont institute. we published a clermont review of books under the directorship of dr. charles keisler. i think on a quarterly basis the clermont review of books is publishing bill buckley quality and commentary on our society and on the politics of the day. we have in heritage d ayaan clermont an abundance of conservative intellectuals today offering contemporary address, addressing thessues of the day. that's available and i think that we need to turn to fellows

like my colleague tom phillips with regnery books, with red state, human events.com. it's out the and available. we need to plug into it and encourage others to read it. >> we had a conversation about a month ago on the train coming from d.c. to new york and you said to me you thought obama was the most serious adversary the republican party ever faced and you said what was different about this fellow is unlike other democrats it had opposed the republican party was political opposition. but that obama's intense seems to be to put the republican party out of business. how do we counter that? we know there is a demographic problem, there is an age problem, culture gap with young people. and couldt bjohn fund has made the point that he vould like america to be like a chicago where you have a republican party but it's there

as a sort of appendix for show and you have a one-party city. and is that something that we have as a potential threat? >> it is frightening all costs. this is the most serious opponent we have ever faced. just a side note to those that say we need to moderate here and move to the center and be a bigger tent, with eckert, democrats nominated the most left-wing candidate known to any major political party. he's don nothing but a select big governments, socialist types. people say sometimes is about a socialist? to me speaking for myself that isn't a serious question. of course he's a socialist. the question is he a marxist. one of the editors called me today. but let me just say that there are two instituons. designed to keep politicians and government on the streets and narrow. one, the media and we know they left the sidelines as referees

and joined the other side. that leaves the nonprofit community in serious danger of being totally silenced or co-op by this administration. it is very serious and they know what to do with power. five to $10 billion of the stimulus money is designated dictly for nonprofit organizations. the day the stimulus bill passed the american heart association put out a press release praising the stimulus package talking about wonderful thing this is now repair schools that have fallen to disrepair and get people's unemployment checks have stopped they are going to start getting checks again advancing the obama agenda and this is going to happen with the cancer socty, arthritis you will see the entire nonprofit community wanting some of this money and they are going to be silenced or coopted. that is one of 100 tngs they are going to do to use.

>> john you want to add something? >> the topic is not as bleak as it might appear. and believe me it isn't because they the democrats are starting to make a lot of mistakes. and they will be coming fast. so it's not -- it's not so bad for us in that sense. let me mention a few. what is oil. they have curtailed charley for oil in america. they have some crazy hatred if you will almost no drilling offsre of the wood was approved by the congress. i have been up in alaska, incredible amounts of oil up there all over. we have oil. we'll is abundant. natural gas. well, natural gas is a new technology as an andance of it. you add to that the expense obama is already dropping in the poll since the newspapers.

the expense of the health care program is not directed at cutting costs. they've got to put the we sta cost. wasteful spending general motors and taking that over it is set a precedent of great damage to the bond market's that in the future the government says it is a national emergency -- >> i think we have a pretty good picture that he is radically changing the structure of -- and america. this lady that's been waiting patiently. >> i think it is pretty obvious we have an old guard of conservative people who are successful in business which our government is a business and people forget that. and we need some one of experience, but we also need number people to fm a plan. i have rea last week obama sent out 13 million e-mails to people in support of his health care initiatives and ideas and to get

that passed through and it's also much the 13 million e-mails wilky said. i don't know because i did not get one, but it is the campaigning and that is i think something of the conservative party is missing is if you fail your plan to fail and our current president never stopped campaigning what it is for his next election or a liberal agenda there's a plan behind it. so along with the wisdom and knowledge of our party the conservative party carries we need a plan together and it's not too soon to start that. we need to start it now before all of this will so over-the-top. >> there's a wonderful pamphlet that david horowitz wrote and i am sure many you are familiar with h in los angeles called

the art political warfare. i suggest this. it's about strategy. basically david makes the point the side that has a strategy will almost always win against the side that doesn't have a strategy. and so you're point is well taken. there needs to be a strategy. i would emphasize again that for conservatives it's not enough to say you're against obama and maybe there will be a backlash, maybe not. roosevelt won four elections and the economy got worse and worse during the 30's. what republicans need is a strategy that also has a positive future and positive image. talk about what the free enterprise system does. there is a reason why america represents less than 5% of the world populatio but 25 -- 27% of the world's gdp. there's something going on here we have been doing right. socialism is going to hurt that.

>> i wanted to ask the speakers if they saw tension or contradiction in the conservative movement between on the one hand libertarian's whose stress freedom individual choice and sort of moral majority, family values side of the conservative movement who i think are headed off in a somewhat different direction and if you do see tension or contraction how do consertives work to resolve that or overcome it? >> let me start with richard on that andhat might be t last question because our time is up and i am sure the panel will take questions after if you want to come to the podium. but richard can bounce that around. >> chris, let me quickly comment on the leedy who asked the question -- made a comment. i persolly have mown eight page plan and i am working that plan and i have colleagues and friend who have plans and we are meeting regularly.

quite frankly in washington and around the country. so, don't count on those tional conservatives to save us. but i want you to know things are happening. plans are being developed and meetings are happening and things -- there is perhaps some light at the end of the tunnel. in terms of the tension of course there's tension on the left side. i mean, roosevelt put together a coalition of groups of people who hate each other. we have suffered for worse with blacks and union leaders and jews and intellectuals. these people hate each other but this got 60% of the action, 70% and that is the way -- ing frank meyer disciple. frank meyer was a great anti-communist le@der in the 50's, 60's, 70's and he talked about fusion and some. i commend this t all of you and that is the only way we will come to power is bringing this

all together as ronald reagan did and we don't have to try to square the circle. traditional conservatives would never totally agree with libertarians and libertarians will never totally agreed with this group or that. we have to do the best we ca and move forward. >> tom, you want to put some punctuation? >> i was about ready to mngin frank meyer who was a pillar of the foundation of the conservative movement for the "national review." he showed how we could bridge the gap between the libertarians and the traditional conservatives. and frankly we have to realize if you are a little, excuse me, libertarian you've got more in common with the old conservatives than with the left and the reverse is true. we need the help of libertarians as well as conservative traditionalists to have any

chance of providing leadership for the country. so i am a big fusion test myself. >> i want to thank the distinguished panel for a very insightful time and offering their time. i know tom came from california, both tom's came from southern california today to be with us. and i appreciate all of you for spending the time to listen and hopefully we will all work for building a better and stronger and freer america. [applause] thank you. >> richard viguerie is a pioneer of direct mail fund-raising and conservative conservativehq.com. his books include america's return how conservatives use new an alternative media to take power, and the new right. john utley is this is the publishe of american conservative magazine and rights for antiwar.com. previously with knight ridder and voice of america. thomas phillips founded eagle estion, the parent of regnery

publishing in '93. he's also the chairman and president of philips international incorporated. thomas fuentes is with the claremont institute for the study of statesmanship and political philosophy. and former chairman of the republican party orange county california. this talk was part of the eedom fest 2009. to find out more, this it freedomfest.com. we are here at the ordering council for social studies conference at the confederated tribes of the grant from community of oregon. speaking with robert miller, author of native americans discovered and concord. thomas jefferson, lois and clark and manifest destiny. mr. miller to your book talks about the doctrine of discovery. why don't you tell us a little bit about that? >> the doctrine of discovery is the legal principle that describes how europeans came and claimed the land from the native

people. the doctor and was literally developed by the church and portugal and spain in the late 1400's and european countries used this legal principal to plead lans and africom nisha and the americas. the classic painting or example of explorers coming in sticking their flag that in various paintings they were thinking of for a safe voyage across the ocean. that might be true. but europeans were also engad in a legal procedure when they we putting their flags and cross is in the soil. they literally were claiming the land for their own king and country. >> is the doctor of discovery still intact discussions today? >> aolutely. the united states supreme court adopted the stock dropped discovery and 1823 supreme court case called johnson macintosh. and the court decided to borrow

this international law the european companies to meet the country's divided how they would clean the world so as part of american law we adopted that in this case, johnson v macintosh to see what rights tribes held in their own land and even though that is 1823 supreme court case and the doctrine of discovering itself is 500-years-old that is still the law in america today for indian tribes and for some indian people. the land at tribes zero with for example, the united states is considered to be the legal owner of the land, preservation etc and tried is called the beneficial owner so this doctrine of discovery still applies in indian country today and in fact guess what russia did august 2nd, 2007. it of course planted a flag 2 miles below the surface of the arctic ocean. plainly russia is usi this charade if we want to call it

that as a plan for the resources russia claims is there or we all know is there, 10 billion tons of oil and gas. >> in the former to your book by elizabeth she writes history is an elusive and misleading discipline and it's practically impossible to find unbiased history and one that is not filtered through preconceived notions and that is why this book is still imptant. how is your book different from other history books on the subject? >> i am a native person, a citizen of the eastern shawnee tribe of oklahoma and i teach indi law and have for over 50 years so i do look at historical events through a different light perhaps than someone else. i also a lawyer and a professor, so i see events that happened in american history through their legal meaning. and so the doctor of discovery is something i'm very familiar with and so when i tried to point me to be involved in the lewis and clark bicentennial i immediately thought i uld write about the doctrine of discovery.

what didhomas jefferson think about it? what did listen and clark do that looked like the doctor o discovery when they were in the oregon country literally claiming the land for the united states? so history than it depends it is important who writes history because weonder why minorities and females for example and indian people are left out of history that is because a whole lot of european males wrote the history books. it depends on who writes the history wh they might emphasize or what they thk is most important. one reviewer of my book said that it was a revisionist history but he said revisionism in the best way possible. because it gave a new slant on american history on thomas jefferson's ideas about the louisiana purchase and about the lewis and clark expedition and then o manifest destiny itself. so what i hope my book does is purchased from a difference and give another viewpoint that has

been ignored. >> what you think the government needs to do today to write some of the earlier rulings? >> the doctor of discovery has been american law for over 500 years. in the conclusion of my book i really don't have a fabulous suggestion on what we can do about the doctrine of discovery today. but i do give a couple simple suggestions that maybe congress could appoint a blue-ribbon commission that tribes are involved or maybe some congressional coittee could examine the remnants of the doctrine of discovery that are still part of american indian call today. why are we still using this eurocentric ethnocentric bridge the joyce lee inspired law to limit the rights of indian tribes and indian people in their own properties? today. so what we can do, it can't be something to radical because we don't like to change property law to radically and it has been

the proper law in the western world the past 500 or 600 years. >> and you might in the end of your but you're confident there is more evidence the government uses doctrine of discovery and since he finished writing you've been able to find more evidence. where do y go from here? are you still conducting research on this? >> yes, in fact i just signed a contract to write another book with an australian aborigine woman o is a professo in sydney, a professor and new zealand, and a first nations woman who is a professor in canada. and for sophos are going to write a book about how england used the doctre of discovery. what sort of prompt us to do this is our four countries are the only four in the united nations who voted against the declaration on the rights of indigenous people in september of 2007. we found it very unique only four nations in the united

nations voted against the rights of indigenous people. and so we talked about what do those four nations have in common? obviously it is english colonization using these doctrine of discovery principles against the native people and so that is my next project in the further research in the doctrine of discovery. >> we have been speaking with robert miller author of need of america discovered and concord, thomas jeffeon lewis clark and manifest destiny. thank you. do you know you can view booktv programs online? go to booktv.org. type the name of the author, subject or book in the search area in the upper left-hand corner of the page. select the watch link. now you can view the entire program. you might also explore the recently viewed book tv box or programs box to fight and you recent programs.

we are here at the oregon council for social studies conference grande ronde oregon with stephen dowe beckman. >> i felt native americans needed to tell their own story, and their voices haven't been well heard, nor readily visible. for 45 years i gathered materials and dropped them and file folders they becam this volume. >> andow long have you been working on this? >> the book really started in 1964, and culminated when it was published by oregon state university press. but in addition to the documents, the volume has a series of essays that provide the context and chronology that

introduces each of the periods in the federal indian policy. >> you talk a little bit about in the introduction about an event in 1972 that was kind of the genesis of the book. why don't you tell us about that event. >> welcome and 1792 in the enlightenment to the south pacific european and asian states and ultimately the united states of america made contact with the native peoples of this region. to meet one of the electrifying moments was sitting in the british museum library and london and reading the diaries of the vancouver expedition. in one of the books appeared the board shrilasi. i contacted victor and i said i have these words written in 1792. can you give me a translation. and victor said the me and my

friends, my frids, i am pleased to meet you. this is a term of greeting. and that was i thought a fascinating way to document first contact, first encounter, first documented relationship between europeans and native americans a oregon. my friends, my friends, we are so pleased to meet you. >> the titles of chapters include removal and reservations, walking to a white man's land and the disastrous policy of termination, but in donner happier note with the last chapter titled restoration of hope which talks about the last 30 years of the 20th century. where is the u.s. today on the relationship with american indians and have we sn much we've seen fit to improvement in terms of federal policy and program. it really commenced with indian self-determination educational assistance act when tribes were given more and more power to take charge of their own destiny. tribes blogger hatari with bureau of indian affairs but

instead they could take money and some of their own administration and contract for the services they wanted to read this in power but also came in the area of educion where tribal people were able to work with loc school districts to develop curriculum, príncipe and teacher training programs, acquired curricular materials everything from text to visual information and help operate cultured camps. so this and how were and came gradually starting with the 1960's, 1970's and then grew dramatically with the impact indian act. by 1990, oregon tribes had support compact with the state of oregon and were ready to establish casinos. casinos mean dollars and dollars give the tribes opportunity for self-determination and program development on like anything th had occurred previously. ..

your book was over 500 pages. how did you decide what documents to leave out? >> that was a hard decision because i left out two-thirds of those i had selected. in other words this is the tip of the iceberg of information that was out there. but i tried to select documents and voices from people or events that really mattered or countered. many of the things that are described in the book are counted in the book are turning point events. such as the decision to terminate western oregon tribes or e decision to open a reservation for homesteading in euro american settlement those were highly consequential

moments for the tribal people and their voices and their response to those events are part of the fabric of this book. >> what's your opinion on the teaching of u.s. americanndian history in this country? >> i think the teaching of it has improved significantly. there's much greater cultural sensitivity and awareness and embrace of the multiple ethnicitys of the united states since the civil rights movement of the 1960s. we've wised up. we've integrated advertising. we've integrated programs and movies. we've integrated housing. we even have an african-american president. >> and what's next for you? >> well what's next was few book that came out this week. it's a corporate history. i have started writing some business histories. the next book later this year is going tbe history of the jen see and wyoming railroad in gren niche, connecticut and rochester new york. so my interests r