little bit over --ver the top because i do strongly believe if associions or corporations can do this capitol hill roing they should have the right to run advertisements on the television beforen election. thank you. >> guest: that is the argument they get into loying and have a free-speech right to lobby and so why noto all the w and back candidates and that is what the court is going to decide. >> host: we e going io an election year and at this case obviously could have a big effect on the outcome of next year's elections depending what is decided. when will we know? >> guest: i think that is one of the reasons they scheduled early because they want to get the case decided before december before the election yearicks in. i think december is a good guess. they could and on decision next week or six months fm now but my guess is it will be two or three months.

if somebody wtes an opinion for probably five of them somebody writes a dissent they will try to get it out at the end of the year so a couplef months. >> host: thank you for being th us to explain bottle me what happened yesterday but the implications mr. savage from the "los angeles times."

now s. ambassador to iraq christopher hill tesfies on capitol hill. the senate foreign relations committee hearing is one hour and 15 minutes and is chaired by massachusetts senator john kerry [inaudible conversations] >> this hearing will come to order. today we are honored to be joined by america' top diplomat in baghdad and longtime friend

of this committee. welcome back, chris, we are delighted to have youack and ok forward to your testimony today. also, want to recnize the efforts of all of our very capable and i would say couragus diplomats who are serving in harm's way. they often almost always don't get the credit that obvusly the soldiers on the front line gets put in many ways they are equally at risk and they do an traordinary job and desert our gratitude, and we extended to them today and always. six and a half years after going to bore, we are finally eing our iraq and game. by next august, consistent with the president's february speech at camp lejeune american tro levels will be down 50,000 or lower. barely a third where we are today. a residual force will leave by

deceer of 2011 in kping with the bilateralecurity agreement that provides the legal framework for our ongoing presence in iraq. these redeployments are going to take place in a comex, evolving political and security landscape. when iraqi is go to the polls next january, theyill elect a new parliament and government, d theyre also scheduled to particate a referendum to tify the security agrment. if the iraqi public rejects the agreement, then i believe we have no choice but to withdraw allf our foes as quickly as we can. this would complicate our free deployment and seterely hurt curtail our ability to assist the iraqi security forces in government but at this point i am not sure how we would justify asking of soldiers to stay one day longer than necessary if they are being formally disinvited bthe iraqi people. in a sense, the security agreement tt the bush

administration negotiated with prime minister maliki made moot the old should we stay or should we go policy debate. but even so iraq remains a worse negati test for pumpkins and policymakers. on one hand a person can look at security and since 2006 when sectarian violence threatened to tear iraqi society apart a conclude i iraqis have stepped back from the brink. and it's true sce the worst days of 2006 and in 2007 violence has dropped by 85%, even with the rent mass casualty attacks. amican fatalities are at their lowest rate of the war. al qaeda and iraq, while still dead meat, is only a shadow of its formerf. there has been political progress house well. in the january elections on like

in 2005, secretary and and ethnic identification is unlily to be the sole organizing principal of iraqi politics. and i know that ambassador hill will share thoughts with us todayn that. te leader of t anbar awakening, a group the default out of the sunni arab insurgency has been talking openly about a political allnce with shiite prime minister nouri al -- al-maliki. such an announcement would ha been unthinkable just 18 months ago. other city factions are exploring a coalition with the kurds. electricity production which had been long stalleduietly increased by 40% the last year. that is optimistic view but we can also ok at the seams of facts on the ground and come to a more pessimistic conclusion, namely that removing american presence that has been the linchpin of the security improvements of the last few years would leave iq back into

a downward spiral of communal violence. it is frankly too soon to know whether the rise in violence since america forces withdrew from iraqi citiein june is an uptick or an upswine. whether it is a blip or trend recent violence has been troubling. augustas the deadliest month for iraqi and devastating black wednesday bombings against the iraqi foreign and finance ministries last month were a stark remder that forces opposed to the reconciliation remain capable of devastating attas that could alter the country's direction. the attacks were also a blow to the iraqi people's confidence in their own security forces. and of course i rack's problems don't end there. eckert up, kurdish tensions remain unresolved. corruption is rampant. millions of iraqi refugees and internally displaced persons remain far from home waiting to

be resettled. iraq's rations with its neighbors or fall title. there are few -- these are just a few of the many challenges iraq is going to face in the coming months. so what's it going to be? what is it in a sense? which view really represents the outcome? is iraq beginning to unravel again or are these just the inevitable bumps on theoad toward returning responsibility for iraq to the iraqi? what will happen after we leave? we don't have definitive answers to these questions. but as one who has long advocated the responsible redeployment of american troops from iraq, i believe the president has made the most the difficult situation that he inherited there. at this point in th mission america must approach iraq with a dose. there are limits to what we can accomplish their. and we may be approaching those

limits. as iraqi politics enter an eltion season and troops leave the cities we no longer have the ility to dictate outcomes in places where we did or if we er did. while the american people stand ready to help iraqis, it is time to take off the training wheels and let the iraqi is define their own future. the task ahead as we draw down our forces is tovi a knowledge here and there to elsure iraq doesn't crash when the wheels to come off. the last year or so t maliki government has been ineasingly keen to signal it is in control and capable of maintaining security. we should encourage this. iraqis ability to keep their own house in order is the key to leaving behind a stable iraq. in the meantime perhaps the tragic black wednesday bombings will persuade iraq's leaders to take a more honest look at their capabilities and needs. today, iraqi politics have long

to bring it in ways they simply didn't have an 2006 or 27. but the real test remains not just for poor minister maliki but all of iraq senior leaders. are they willing to make the political compromises necessary to forge a sustainable political compact that provides the foundation for a stable iraq? the answer will go a long way toward determining hyrax future. mr. ambassador, iraq today as evidenced here in this room to some degree has become theow forgotten war whereas afghanistan was previously. largely pushed off the headlines and out of the evening news but at doesn't meet your task any easiernd i don't need to be the one to tell you that. the families of the 130,000 troops and 1,000 dipts in iraq need no reminder ofheir loved ones remain in harm's way. st two days ago for american

soldiers were tragically killed. afghanistan will receive a lot of attention in the coming weeks including by this committee as it should but i hope thi heabing will help serve as a reminder while it is coming to our closed, our mission in iraq is not yet over. i look forward to hearing your testimony and thank you for making the tp back to washington to be with us today. senator lugar? >> thank y mr. chairman. welcome back to the committee, and thus your help. two months ago i had the privilege of meeting with prime minister maliki in turkey as he led the iraqi delegation at the signing of the nabucco pipeline treaty. he predicted that exports from his country would fulfill have that pipeline. two weeks later the prime minister met with this committee here in the capitol presenting a confident face to members as we

questioned him on everything om iran and arab-kurdish relations to refugee returns and readiness of the security forces. and his government to delir for the iraqi people. in the international arena, mr. maliki is traveling extensively making the case tt his ultry is ready to join the community of nations to emerge from chapter vii status and carry on responsibly as immature state. domestically as prepared for the january 16th elections he was projecting koln, confidence and full control of all quarters asserting iraq sovereignty and editing and sing in iraq first agenda. however, the devastating car bomb attacks inside of the baghdad security zone three weeks ago which killed scores, jured hundreds more, strip off that confident and coordinate

explosions which targeted the finance and foreign ministry budings rattledhe government and the minister who came out planting figures and second-guessing decisions to bring down security barriers in parts of baghdad. nior members of the government even questioned the reliance on u.s. forces for security. the answer showed a smooth with path for iraq is street and likely. so there are positive signs in iraq the political accommodations sought by the united states has not come about, despite the political space created by the surge and other factors. the central government remains weak and ethnic secretary of divisions remain. it appears influence and control are achieved by the provincial means and while the government models through day-to-day operations. for our own part, serious questions remain about our policy is going forward and our strategy. the president and vice president

continue to speak about troops coming home at the end of 2011. but we do not have a clear understanding of how that withdrawal will occur under optimal conditions much less worst-case scenarios. metrics coming out of mnfi and embassy baghdad point to positive directions. these are reliablthat would be a welcome change in the fragile reversible situation or with rlier years. today the ambassador hill fm you what we need is realism, not the mikey optimism of the coalition provisional authority days, to assess whether our strategic foundation is durham. key questions for you today should include first in the last few years many critics charged that we were ting our eyes off the ball with respect to afghanisn. are we at risk of taking our eyes offhe other ball as the attention and resources shift fromraq?

has planning from withdraw and normalizatio diverted attention from tasks and priorities that lay ahead in iraq, particularly beyond the january election? and second, are we developing lasting relationships and institutions? having moved from of the construction phase, it's not as easy to see progress on buildings and power generator are not the product. what programs are key to ensuring iraq does not backslide? and third, what and who will fill the power void as u.s. forces withdraw, first from cities but progressively from the entire country? the howl of withdrawal is even more important than land. although the kurdish region has ben relatively calm, internatnal crisis group recently aboard, quote, district of political conflict could a rise over percoid as iraq army ankurdish fces or agreed in

opposing formations. can this confrontation be resolved, and what are the consequences if it is not? fift or iraq's neighbors pleadi constructive roles? what about iran? as prime minister maliki seeks reelection and to put together a coalition, is there a chance that the platform will develop in a way that further breaks down secretarianism? and finally, do we and the iraqi seal ytoy on the priorities goinghead? are the policy foundations firm? are you receiving the clarity of directions you need from washington? as we work to complete the appropriation bill for 2010, the answer to these basic questions are essential to the work of the congress and to this cmittee. as much as we would like you to be the one with a crystal ball to tell what things will look like at the end o2011, it's more important you give your best since how things are

progressing toward that date and how things stand today. thank ynu so much for coming. >> thank you senator lugar. ambassador, we look forward to your testimony. >> thank you very much, chairman kerry. i have a statement -- >> we will put the statement in full and if you would summarize that would give more time to have a good dialogue. >> chairman kerry, senator lugar, members of the committee, thank you for the opptunity to speak today about our opportunity in iraq as we transition from military to civilian through co-ad mission and about our efforts to develop strong long-term relations with iraq. this is the start of the 12th month per call at the end of which all cbat forces will be withdrawn. is that my phone or somne else? [laughter] this is the start of a -month period at which, during which

are at the end of whicall combat forces will be withdrawn. we have huge interests in capitalizing on the opptunity in iraq. iraq is at the center of the middle east bordering key countries like saudi arabia, iran and our nato ally, turkey -- it is the border between kurdisland and arab land. it is where sunni meet shia. it is a central part of the middle east and something in a country in which we should have and warring interests. for the first time in decades in fact, iraq has chance to become an engine for regional stabity and regional economic growth rather than a source of regional tension and dispute. a convergence of defense presents the possibility of genuine advancement. our military -- our civilian will begin to resolve internal disputes and foster longer-term

stability by showing iraqi is how to build a market oriented economy and genuinely representative and accountable government. over time as we make progress in the economic and political goal, we will see signifcant reduction in our civilian presence post in the province and at the embassy of baghd but for now during this transition, we intend to actually strengthened ou civilian presence as the military begins to ramp down. we need to show we are taking over some of theasks that our military has been engaged in and that will mean strengthen civilian operation after which we look to see the civilian eckert began also to ramp down. mr. airman, iraq has indeed suffered a series of attacks over the last weeks including several on minorit communities, particularly horrifying were indeed the attacks on the finance ministry's on

august 19th. but in fact the reality is iraqi people have stood firm and rejected with retribution and s far they have prevented the beginning of a new cycle of olence. it doesn't mean that these attacks don't need to be taken seriously. the need to be taken with great seriousness. but we have found that the iraqi people are reacting well to this and we found the iraqi security forces are reacting well ande believe this is quite a change fr in the past. there has also been some good news and iraq as well. they have staged two rounds of successful elections in january and electionand the kurdistan regi of government just a couple of months ago in july. both cases bolton was peaceful. today there are new provincial councils operating and day kno the voters will have an opportunity to judge the

perfornce. preparationsave begun for the national elections scheded in january, 20. the council of reprentatives is working on an election law to government conduct of elections. i rex on electoral commission has begun to register voters and political parties are negotiing collions will continue to work with iraqi leadship to ensure that this process is completed. in the economic area of iraq's economy remains very ch a work in progress. it is beset by drought, and adequate reforms and falling oil prices earlier which hur the budget but as production and export levels have begun to increase and oil recovered the -- oil prices recovered in recent months i racks budget has proved somewhat. nevertheless we have many near-term fiscal concernabout fiscal stability. iraq is going to have to work very closely on a standby agreement with international monetary fund and we are pleased

is doing so it also needs to uertake economic refm which will lead the groundwork for greater help from the world trade organizati. we can be helpful, but on the economy, the time has co for iraq to step up to the plate. there is no qstion iraq has the resources to be stale and successful but his better applies the resources starting with leal. aqi people are blessed with enormous oil reserves estimated to be the number three country in the world. and on june 30, the iraqi ministry of oil held a first bid around in iraqi history with 32 internional oil companies competing for sixilfields, bo yield was awarded. it is a major deal and if it lives up to its expectations it's possible that i iraq's oil exports could actually double fro this one field alone. iraq needs to do moren this area. we need to work closely with iraqi is becae we need to see increasingly iraq paying for its

own bills as we ramp down r bilateral assistance iraq needs to work on a more diversified economy and we are very pleased. we have worked together on a u.s. direct business and investment conference to be held october 20 if here i washington. 200 representative from iraq will attend th conference. there will be a delegation of senior government officials. we hope this conference be given with high level discussion with high-level iraqi officials that t dialogue economic cooperation will act -- in a vacu. a look at the map shows iraq is located the ceer of a compl neighborhood. elon's influence is very much a realy in iraq. we recognize elements of iran

influence religious tourism have a positive impact but too often and on his plate native roles meddling in iraq's interpol interest and treating violent militia. with tensions persist between baghdad and damascus turkey has special interest in the north. ivax history idifficult and the problems reach back beyond 1990. against this backdrop there is a fundamental question becase the nni arab world there tmake room for an arab states that will be lead in all probability though not dominated but led by th shia. how iraq deals with neighbs will define what kind of region emerges in the coming years. we need to h iraq find solutions, som of these longstanding regional issues. i think our diplomacy in iraq both internally and bilateral terms but also multilaterally wkuld have a vital role to play. we've expanded our efforts to facilitate first containing it

in beginning to resolve or the iraq between the kurds and arabs. i was just in ir kurdistan over the weekend discussing how we can move forward on issues like developinvital oil sector in way that benefits all iraqis and how to address -- how to begino address the thorny dispute in kirkuk. we need to begin the process of getting various ethnic and sectarian communities engaged in selling their dispute the u.n. has a important role here. all of us nt to ease tensns and cooled the emotional temperate to individuals and families can start building stable lives -- and to build the economy. in this context our diplomatic track in the genal odierno has been during ch engaged in this area. i think helping -- be need to -- we need to understand that the decision, the first milesto of

the security agreement that has been removing u.s. cities or the u.s. forces from the cities and villages in iraq on june 30th turned out to be a very important day. more important than many people thought because for many iraqi people they look to the questn would u.s. fulfill its obligations under the security agreement, and i think the overwhelming majority of iraqi citizens do belve we haveone just that. this decision or this date has turned out to be a very importt date because iraqi is now see that the u.s. can be trusted in the agreements we signed and i think the iraqi are now very interested in moving on to seef we c implement the strategic framework agreement. the strategic framework agreement is a companion piece to the secity agreement lays out all the elements of a ng-term relationship with iraq. and this is the agrment we

very much want to be -- want to follow and want to guide us meaning in the years ahead. the transition to civilian led mission presents many challenges for us. we need we have the funding to take up tasks that our military has bproviding in the past and the state department has been working very hard to make sure we have that funding with elements of assistance, fo example police training that the military has been engaged in. the will be transferred to the ste department and we are very much these issues. i think this strategic framework agreement that we are puring was very much the focus of prime mister maliki's visit to -- visit to washington in july. he and secateurs clinton convened a second meeting of a higher committee we've eablished joint

coordination committee and a number of areas and will continue to be very much engaged on these issues. mr. airman, with those comments of our overall trends and iraq i stand ready for questions. >> thank you, ambassador. we will do sen minute rounds since we have a number of senators here to try to expedite. you mentioned in your testimony strengthen civilian effort. what do you mean by that? the largest in the see anywhere in the world. >> the embassy is indeed very large. frankly it is unsustainable in its current configuration and will need to get smaller. just on the issue of housing, we have set out for about 600 employees and have over 1,000 people who have taken a one-bedroom aparent and put shiite bloc dividers through a small living oms and made them into a two-bedroom apartments.

just in terms of the physical infrastructure we are now set up for the size and we need to get smalr. that said ther are certain tasks in the neaterme need to take up wh grt seriousness to make sure first of all the iraqi understanding the u.s. is not leading. u.s. forces may be leading the u.s. isn't leading. chief among these of urse is the issue of the police traing -- performed by the military which will soon be performed by people from the state department. so, in doing that we need to look at the over all -- -- how we ptect these people. are we going to have to have additional security for these people now that we no longer have u.s. forces too that? so there will be some near-term issues like that. the overall footprint of e

u.s., indeed the overall funding for the u.s. will go precipitously down. we have to take over for the military has done but i want to assure you mr. chairman i want to see the embassy smaller. >> mr. ambassador, you also talked about the issue of reform in iraq, and, you know, we have been sitting on this committee listening to this talk. i can remember secretary rice doud in the low were building of the dirksen testifying in january 3 or 4 years ago we'll always almost dawn. were ready and moving forward on ts and that, etc., etc.. we are at least three or four years later and still those ntentious issues remain contentious. share with us -- it seems to me though is maybe the explosion point alson the absence of an american presence. were you when ur view on that

and of resolving these? >> first of all i would like to say i think getng the economy they are operati starting to be pumped out of the ground is essential to the future of that country, and frankly we caot be funding things that should be funded by the iraqis and would be funded if they were able to move on the oil sector. with regard to the hydrocarbon law we, i went out there with expectation that we wouldove on tha but, you know, it was -- its been held up for three or four years. i have worked tt issue. we've tried to break it down and find out where the differences are between the kurdish government and the iraqi government. it is a complex piece of legislation iolving four separate pieces of legislation having to do with revenue sharing and with institution building, having to do with how

the ministry wou operate and i think realistically speaking it will probably not get done before the january ections. our concern is we cannot have a iraq's future held up or simply held hostage to this one piece of legislation. erefore, we are pleased the iraq statement ahead with the benning of something they hadn't done for decades and decades and that day's begin the process of bidding oilfields to concerns. they didn't do ituring saddam or even before saddam, so ty have begun tha they began in june. .. if all those revs are pilg up, i eve greater amounts, and thout some disibution mechanism, you have -- >> yeah, ll, there is a distribution mechanism, the 17% is basically -- is agree by all des. so even when they -- when the --

on the kurdi rional government, when they were able to export some oil with an agreement with baghda they did it under the provion of 17% -- 17%. so i think these things can be properly distributed. the issue is in the -- i won't say long run, buttainly in the medium run, they'rd going to need this law, because the main issues go to things like infrastructure. iraq's oil sector is very much in trouble with very aging infrastrture. they have to have agreements on how they're going to pay for that. ishathe responsibility of local authorities? there are other issues havin to and their own regional concern so i think they could deal with some of the key elements but it woulde muchetter if they det with theydrocarbon law but i am giving you my sense of the situation and i don't think we are going to get there before january and therefore we really want to focus on giving them to bit of these fields because of the ink british petroleum and there is a gd development.

>> mr. ambassadosyria and iraq had indicated a willingness to try to cooperate on the borders and deal with the issue which is very much in our interest and we have been pushing out on both sides but the bombings on august 19th have now seen, sort of explosion between the two countries. they pulled thr ambassadors and traded recrimination so where do we stand on that? what if anything can be done to end that? well turkish mediation make a difference? is there something that we should be advocating at this point in what you tnk ithe prospects for getting back to the place that we had hoped to be? >> i think we would like to see iraq and syria have the good relationship and it was rather ironic that on august 18th, 1 day before the bombing, the prime minister maliki was in damascus and assigned number of economic agreements.

obviously things e in a difficult state and things are frankly on hold right now through this, through this downturn in the relationship. if the iraqis are very concerned about the fact that they singer bahist leaders went and found fuge in syria and remain in syria and the iraqis have understandably called for their return to iraq. that issue needs to be frankly, needs to be worked through. in terms of foreign fighters, there has been a diminished flow of foreign fighters from seriate to iraq but i don't think anyone should say that is gone to zubrow and the issue of foreign fighters in syria is also an issue we need to be, i think everybody needs to be focused on. the iraqis in their investigatign of august 19th come to the conclusion that this was more than an al qaeda's strike.

they believe there is cknsiderable external inflnce in this. there figures tend to point toward syria. we would like to wk with the iraqis on what evidence they have. we would like to share with the iraqis what evidence we have to try to come to try to understand precisely what happened and then get on with dealing with that and improving the relationship. syria is obviously has been a troubled neighbor for iraq but i think in the lonrun iraq needs to develop this relaionship. prime mister are maliki spent 18 months of is like in serious so when one lks to prime minister maliki about syria you have to do it in aay that is respectful of the fact thate knows a thing or twabout syria. >>hank y mr. ambassador. senator lugar. thank you mr. chairman.

ambassador, americans read the newspapers about a tax now in iq the question is raised in a common-sense way. after withdrawal of our forces in the cities on june the 30th, what is the outlook of the ordinary iraqis citizen in the cities about his or her surity or about their homes, their neighborhoods. in essence there was rejoicing that we have fulfilled our commitment and we did so, and yet even the people that we have tried to train and left to provide the security seem to be inadequate for that task. granted the numbers of casualties are down, the number of attacks by any statistical measurement but nonetheless life has go on in an ordinary way for people.

with or without the united states. whats your prognosis of the security arrangements iraqis are providing for themselves and the perceptions of their citizens out tt? >> i think with regard to perceptions,bvusly there are concerns among iraqi citizen may out the capability of their forces and their ability to handle a great security challenge, which their own government believes is not just developed withinraq but also hasome foreign routes so this is a major issue there. that said, i think the lus of opinion is that it is time for the iraqis forces to protect iraqis and so the u.s. forces, which i do believe are the greatest fighting force the world has ever seen has also become the greatest reigning force.

there has been tremends fort put into making sure the iraqis are able to manage this issue. we have a great deal of cooperation as we try to have transparency in what we know about the situation and what they know. thiraqis will do things a little differently tn the u.s. forces and some of the things they do, in our opinion, ought to be change. the question is can you get them to change things by just telling them or are they going to have toearn to change things by their experience? one issue is checkpoints. arg cckpoints alone anough to solve these problems or do you have to have much more aggressive control and that sort of thing? i think these a things the iraqi fors are entirely capable of running. you know right after august 19 the was a lot of finger-pointing about did the police did enough-- to enough and did the army to enough?

this is not a time for finger-pointing. there will be plenty of time for that in the fute. what they really need to do is comeogether and figure out how they can do things better. there has been a lot of talk about whether these issues were related to bringg down tea walls. anyone who has visited the foreign ministry and indeed i took somof their colleagues to see it, we realized it was unjust, it is not an issue of tea walls. it was an issue of a very well-funded terrorist group with very large truck platform carrying tons, thousands of tons of explosis, doing damage to this in a way that i think most americans understand if you think ba to oklahoma city, it is that type of agricultural chemical based weapon. so, my own judgment is that the

iraqi forces and indeed the the iraqi governme is going tbe challenged very much in the coming months. i also am of the judgment that they will learn of these rrible events and will make the adjustments they need to ma. i don't think this is a function of the fact that somehow if we turned it over to them a year from now or two years from now the issue wou be much different. i think they have to simply learn and i think they are doing that. there are some very capable people in the iraqis security forces. >> let me ask the follow-up of that about t security, you indicated 1,000 people are in iraq in a dipmatic situation but these news aounts indicate many moreersons, americans, are in iraq still completing various projects. what security do your personnel have for the people doing the

projects, and how much securi is going to be requid in this period of time we now have to get all of the equipment and infrastructure, whever we have in iraq, out of iraq? it must be a huge depyment, withdrawal situation you are looking at. notch is the people but all of ese goods and armaments. how was that proceedings? >> senator ihink the military is working the logistics' very well in how they will get their, their personnel and equipment outf iraq, what roots they will use and how they will protec- and i really don't think i can give any advice to general ierno on this matter except to say that as the general statement let me say the environmentn iraq continues to be ver dangerous and if you just measure progress in iraq by

the degree of danger, i think it is very much in the interest of terrorists and insurgents to create the impression that it is extremely dangerous and therefore there has been very little progress. we believe that we have adequate security to protect our civilians. when i go out i go out and very much reenforce convoys. i must say as a personal observation, when you are right there in but did the number of people who need to be moved when i need to go from point a to point b, you think to yourself to i really need to go from point a to point b b soon you realize that you allow yourself to b this motivated by worrying about how many ople are moving, he won't be able to get your job done a lot of security people are moved whenever diplomats moved aroun the country. we finit absolutely eential

to get into the so-called red zone. i say so called because outside the green zone is the rest of the country called the red zone. bu we need to be out there. it is not without ris we have lost people in the embassy and we may lose people in the future. we believe it is the right approach. we take all precautions. no one is interested in doing of the security pekple.ecautns it is a vertough environment. iust say arriving there realizing the difficulty of just getting from the airport to the embassy were all very struck by it but we are not going to give into it. we are going toet the iraqi to stand this place up anwhen our people leave they will leave with a sense of a job complish. that is what we are going to do. >> thank you sir. >> thank you senator lugar. senator feingold. >>hank you ambassadors hill. i would like tohank you for

holding thihearing and extremely glad we are finally having a timetable. while i am concerned that the redeployment is not being done as promptly as it should be this step will allow us to refocus on the global threat posed by al qaeda. i remain cvinced that foreign occupations are usually not a good strategy for combating a global terrorist network. we need to find ways to relentlessly pursued al qaeda while developing long-term partnerships with legitimate local actors in doing so through developmenefforts that do not involve a massive military footprints. now as we transition out of ira is extremely importantly focus on making this an derly withdrawal and doing everything we can to help promote the political reconciliation needed to bring lasting peace to iraq. as to some questions, ambassador, how to the iraqi people feel about the deployment of all u.s. troops

by the end of 2011 as currently required by the bilateral agreement? is there a danger at any indication we are backing away from the commitmentould be greeted with strong opposition? >> i think the dates of december, 2011, august 2010, these were agreed with the iraqi government at the end of 2008. i think any, any indication that we were not prepared to live with these dates would be very poorly perceived by the iraqi people and indeed we sawhis in the movement out of the cities on june 30th, 2009. whenever we tried to discuss that in terms of nuances, immediately the iraqi media, the iraqi public were concerned that somehow we were looking for ways t to accomplishhat. in the end we did exactly what we said we would do which was we

pull their people lot of the cities and i think it really has estaishe a reservo o trust that, whenou reach an agreemen witthe aricans can take it ttheank. so, i think iis very important to live up to these agreements and i think the iraqi peoe, even though they do have great concerns about security, i think they want to be responsible for, see their country responsible for their own security. as i said earlier i think these will be difficult moments ahead, but thes will be nonheless i rakeem loment to handle and i think they will deal with thi we are dealing with a theor some very competent people there, very intellint people and they will know what to do. >> the iraq government tends to hold a nationwide referendum on a lateral status of forces

agreement and while there has been a lot of sculation about how it will impact the redeployment timetable i would like to also point out that both the iraqi parliament in the irpeople have had a chance to vote on the agreement even though the u.s. senate has no. n you assure us that any potential modifications to the security agreement will be submitted the senate fo ratification? >> the issue of the senate for ratification goes beyond my writs but i will certainly take th question to the state department and the u.n. official aner on that. i can gi you my personal opinio that we would not want to be changing, we would not engage in changing this security agreement without considerable consultation, but as for the tual relationship between the senate and the executive on this i would like to defer to our lawyers at the state department. >> thank you for tt answer and

i look forward to ur further comments on that after you have done that. the cent revelations abo security in kul consider-- maintain discipline over security. norgardonsure adequate security for missions to think itould be preferable to have the military provide security for u.s. embassies in war zones which would ensure we have a legally binding command and control over such psonnel? >> i believe the military has been tasked with a lot, and this is one where when we talk about security personnel, this is one where chief of mission ought to take this, and i believe that these contractors to report to mission alamance u.n. rn reports to me, that we have adequate control and what i can assure you is that i will do my be to make sure we don't have

incidents-- incidents to happen, they happen everywhere but i can sure you we do a lot tory to ensure that they don't happen and i would rather not task the military with still another missn. >> according to the department of the statenspector general there is no plan in place for transition to a diplomatic transition and were not adequately prepared for redeployment. it has produced a unified transition plan whch was under review when can we exct to see a final approved transition plan to ensure our diplomatic operations remain uninterrupted and is the embassy jointly producing a plan with th department defense in order to ensure the transition as well coordinated? >> we are working very closel with our colleues said mnf si and really on a daily basis and we have stood up an ente planning cell at the american embassy and our political

military session who deals on a daily basis. we also have aoint campaign plan and we work through it really on aly basis. lino absolute responsibility, we have in the state department to ensure that the gains that have been achieved by our men and women in uniform are not lost and we pick up, we take the ball when they give it to us and we are ready to move wh t@at so we will, we ha an overall joint campaign plan. we have a number of many other documents in terms of the planning for how we take over nctions wther it is police training and i am sure we can share many of those with the committee. >> is there a unified transition plan, apparently it is under review. when will we be able to see that? >> you will be able to see our joint campaign plan that will be worked out with the military but i'm not sure about this other

cument. maybe i can te the question and get back to you. >> thank you vermuch mr. chairman. >> thank you mr. chairman. good to have t back and . ambassador for your service, thank you very much. i knowypically we would have witnesses from the state department and the armed services would have a witness from the military but following with senator feingold's comments or questions, the taking down from 130,000 troops to 50,000 trps is a ptty big logistal feat and i know e gog to stay man up until afr the elections and shortly thereafter, be down to 50,000 troops. are you comfortable that logistically in ing that, the plan remains in place to make at happen? >> i am very comfortable. i've talked t general odierno on a number of occasions. has some of the fest planners working on this. u are quite right the overall

numbers stay pretty much constant. they stay pretty much constant through the january election and then start ramping down in the spring. his planners worked this very carefully. the it-- on the ground i think would shock most people that have seen the billions and billions of dollars o equipment that is there. what is the, going to be the outcome of that? to me that is an even greater logistical issue. >> i think it is how weove all of the hardware out of the cotry,here is the planning to go at this moment? >> again. i have to deferment from there is 2 million people-- pieces of hardware. it is simply extraordinary the hicles and generators. what you are discussing with your asking is the subject of

going planning by ourilitary to see which things are worth carrying all the way bac to the states, which might be left for civilian use as we take over military, military res such as you mentioned, police training but that is one of the biggest so the question ishether hardware on the military side that can be transferred to the civilians. we are looking at that issue. there is of course the iue of the iraqi army and what equipment would be appropriate to be transferr to them a then whether there is any of their regional contingcy for that equipment. i am not the one to talk about how the hardware belonging to the military should be, shod be divided but ian assure you there is a very active discussion especially whin mnf-i in military planners on how to do that. >> one can'telp but when you

sit and talk to our leaders there, realize tt there is really no way that iraq as a country, even with the amount of oil that they have in the revenues that will be generated there, there is no way in the short term they can stain themselves budget utterly. i mean with the troops, the police and all the reconstruction that is cessary. wondering if you might talk us a little bit about how long you think is going to be in the futurehat we in the coury are supporting iraq financially? >> senator i think that is a very fair queion. ir needs to stand up a lot more rapidly and in particular, they he only in august of this year reached 2 million barrels a day of oil for exports. this is a country that is at least the thi largest oil

reserve in the world, some 115 trillion barrelr of oil for rout i think they have to do a lot better job of gting the oil sector to start pumping this out which is why earlier we were discussing the issue of the bids andhe fact the gave to british petroleum in negotiation appeals which is down in t south. affects goes well ramadi will get something over the next five years and i think that this kind of the timeframe, to answer your question, within this five year period w should be looking at just from that feel they should be able to get up toaybe on the order of 1.7 million barrels a day, put that together with two and tha is almostoubling their experts. so, in the timeframe, i would say in the next three to five years they should be able to substantially increase their exports and therefore the funding. >> but not to support themselves as a country?

>> no, i think they can. they have an enormous supply of oil and i think if they start getting that out of the ground and assuming oil prices are what they are, iraq shoulbe able to pay their own bills. th is no question they should be able to pay their own bills. what they have to dos get ov the notion that those o or before saddam hussein. it goes io the 1950's. it does maybe intohe british occupation in th20's and 30's, this notion that they don't want to see asss turned over to foreigners to be developed, so they have got to get over that. there was a good sign of that in june whebritish petroleum was invited to notiate in this field. they are going to do additional bids later this year and we are hopeful this will result substantiall increased oil. remember, this is the third largest reserves in the world. there is no reason they cannot pay their bills.

>> was in the presence-- he continues to compareyself favorato the previous administration. especially as it relates to budget issues. which by the way on budget issues i very much am glad that that ishe case. is it your feeling than that they will continue the pattern of not asking for any monies for iraq in supplemenls but it will be done per nmal budget requests and their normal appropriations? >> again, how money is requted the their through supplementals or through the normal budget process is a set of decisions that goes beyond my reach it in bad debt. i have enough problems in baghdad but what i can tell you is we need funding for operations and baghdad. we need funding for the various

programs we are doing, and it is the usual push and pull but i believe we are getting what we need in order to get the job done and another thing i can assure you is we are really going to be vigilant on how that money is spent. we have an ambassador who came out there, and i put her in charge of all of these assistance matter so that everything comes to her and we e looking o see whether these things are working, whether ir is using them and if not-- >> my te is up and i know my colleague from maryland is next. i do hope in riding after this you will potentially give us an update on where the u.n. sanctions issue are as it relates to iq. obviously the sanctions we put in place in 1991. the great work you have done has caused the wreck to be a very, very different country as as many others. there has been huge sacrifice by

many of the folks. i would just loveo have a written update as to whats happening to change that, because my time is up and again thank you for your service. >> sator that is one of my favorite subjects and i would b happy to kee in touch with you on that. ..enator corker. senator cardan. >> everybod we have a vote, i thin in ten minutes or so. maybe another round, if people want to have, so we'll see where we are. >> well, thank you,r. chairman, ambassar hill, always a pleasure to be with you. and thank you again for your service in iraq. i've talked to you befe about the issues of the hraqi refugees, and displaced persons, significant numbers still livin in jordan, and syria. and certainly lot are no longer living where they used to in ira can you jt bring us up to date

as to what the iraqi government has been doing in regards to the refugee sues? what's happening in e neighboring countries? and wheer we are actively involved in trying to encourage more activities in regards to the refugees? it. >> senator, we ar very much actively involved, first of all, in terms of internally displaceded people, thereas been progress in getting people back to their homes. it's often not an easy process, because you have you to often evict people from home before you can bring t original homeowners back. i will tell you, though, very frankly, that the progress on refugees, some 1 million or 1.5 million refugees who are mainly in jordan and syria, that progress in those areas is inadequate. we have named a specaal coordinator to deal with this on the washington end. i have an extremely capable refugee crdinator in the

emssy in baghdad. who -- who has a lot of experience in this. mark strella and we need from the iraqis a similar commitment to bringing these refugees me. the iraqis often tl us that there are no barriers, they can simply come home. weelieve more need to be done to make sure that they feel to maksure they feel welcome and save so i can assure you this is a priority because these refugees who are in places like syria and jordan are not having anasy time of it. it is costing everyone money and we would like to get them home. i have raised this with iraqi government and will continue to raise . there's one very specific thing we have named an agency coordinator because this can't st be dealt with in the ministry of imgration and the

need to have an interagency process. d we are going to hold them to it. i've had a chae to visit with iraqi refugees in syria and jordan and you are absolutely right. there are certain sety issues of return. there are more complications than just being able po return to iraq itself and does return the attack of the iraqi government. i know they are concerned about it but i would urge you to continue to press for progress. and one that needs to be dealt with by iraq it's going to move forward and government and its people. >> senator i completely agree. another element is a lot of these refugees are the kind of skilled people iraq leads back in the country so it's not just the refugees need to get back. iraq needshese people back.

so with ur permission i would like to take your comments back to the iraqi government and stress the fact this is a major issue back her we look at this issue ry closely. the u.s. is very much enged in helping refugees brought the world and we expect our partners to be similarly engaged in this. >> could you give us a little bit more detail as to what is ppening between syria and iraq since the august bombin ether there is diplomatic communications and progress being made between the two countries whether the united states has a role to py in this, a just tell us and litt bit more as to how you see the august bombings affect the ongoing relationship between iraq and syria. >> there's no question and affect of the ongoing relationship of august 18th, the day before the bombing prime minister malikwas in damascus for the first negative and many months and signed some economib

agreements and actually agreed to make some progress that was probably the high point. a day ter there was a bombing, to bombings in baghdad of course, and within days the iraqi government expressed very public concern about syria's role. as that has happened the amssadors have been recalled. there is dialogue. that is there are diplomati communication and you know, turkey has attemptedo do se pre-mediation. but i thk their needs to be further who worin terms of syria needs to understand the debt with which iraqi is considered the fact the syrians have given refuge to senio memb of t baathist party who are very much dedicated to a violent change in iraq. this is very much something the iraqi is worry about.

we have been concerned in the past about the flow of the four in fighters throu syria. this has diminished in rent ars but it hasot stopped. it is important for us to see this situation calmed down. but i would like toake a broad point, which is what the iraqi source saying is that some of the problems of terrorism that they arencountering including these mammoth bombs that were sort of oklahoma city-like, were bombs that could not be done just by pele within the country. syria's forei influence and for this reason the iraqi is have gone to the united nations and asked for additional help and i fink that the prime minist sent a letter to secretary general moon.

the quinby iraqi azar making is the issue goes beyond iraq and they need neibors to step up on this including syr. would like to say as i sit in my opening testimony i think one of the tests, one of the questions to put it that way is for the region can a region far and away dominated by sunni government, can that region make room for a ab state that will probably have a shia-led government? this is a change. sama was very much a sunni. when we look at some of the influences in iraq we have to be number one concern about iran because they have been very much present in iraq in every model of a lightweight. we also have to be concerned about some of the sunni countries where evidence -- there has been evidence to suggest they have been funding some of the -- some of the

terrism in iraq. >> i think we would be interested in finding out as much and information as we can in serious's role in iraq. it lot uniqu to iraq concerns about syria and transport and support for terrorism, and i think it would be important for us to be kept informed as to what we determined syria's role was in gard to the august bombing. >> thank you, senator cardin. the vote has started but i want to ask a few more questions before we break out of here. first of all, with respect to the relatiohip senator carn just referred to with sunni neighborhood, which is, you know, the majority of the neighborhood, i am concern

about what you have said, and can you be more specific a littleit about where these pockets sort of tension with respect to the relationship in the sunni world are coming from, and how serious is that as we go forward with less and less american presence? >> think what we want to be concerned about or what we want to avoid is a situation where counies think that or equat the withdrawal of u.s. troops with a withdrawal of u.s. interest in the region. and -- lin sorry, withdrawal of u.s. intest in iq. we would like to stand up long-term relationship with iraq. we want to be very active with iraq. we have invested heavily in iraq in every way and swe want to

be very, very much there. and what we -- it is a perception in the neighborhood that somehow the u.s. has lost its strategic interest in iraq we could have a sort of new great game going on where neighbors including especially iran but also sunni states a well see tha iraq is sort of up for grabs. and so that is what we are mainly concerned about. now, -- >> are you saying that is the current sunni perception? >> i think it is the perception among some countries. i don't want to name names but i do want to say some sunni countries believe someh it is an aberration there is a sh-led government there and somehow inn january it will slip back and they need to be patient or show a little more -- a vlore effort to try to get the

sunni parties to be better funded and somehow they could emerge victorious with a split shia cony lt. there is a perception in iraq they could be subject to this kind of process of dnieper's trying to influence the outcome of elections. i think that would be very dangerous and i is very much a perception that we need to tap down especially with other countries in the region. we need to convince countries in the region that the answer to iran and mischief is not sun and mistress. the answer to iran and malevolence is to do what turkey is doing, that is to be openly engaged iiraq and trying to help iraq for what is a difficult time. strong iraq is essential to the regi. >> what do you worry about the most in the context of the

drawdown? we will drawdowns of 70 or 80,000 troops. the election takes place i january and a maybe they don't have the government set up by the time the trial downticks place. >> well, i worry about precisely that issue. that is i feel the threats are not necessarily security because in the long run the iraqi is figure out, will be able to figure out security. i worry about developing political rules of the game and what i don't want to see is an election that resus in six months of government for nation during which there is loss of some of the progress made. so i worry that it will take a long time to form a government after january. >> do you pic up any whisperings, and or discussions in back rooms or privately do you of an expression of fear about the potential greater flow

of power to prime mister maliki and even greater pow and tential for democratization in some affect? >> well, senator, in the privacy of this hearing room i will say that indeed when you talk i, we are in an electimn period, and there are very strong opinions about the mister maliki across the board and if y listen to a of those opinions about people a thinking you will hear opinios you just expressed. you will also hear the opinion that because primeinister maliki's government was put together with great ce after a great deal of political horse trading that he has a situation somef his ministry is in his view are not real to him or functioning and so he ends up up waiting people around him in the

prime minister's office to do what eight ministerial functions because he needs to get the job done and this is a country where ministries often deal with just providing basic services, that sort of thing. so, you hear other people say that he needs to get these things -- he needs to bring these people around him in order to get the job done. >> and what has been the impact -- unfortunately we are going to have to cut off because i have got to vote but what has been the impact of the passing in terms of the power center? >> i think it is too early to tell at this point. i went down to the compound a few days later for a part of the memorialourning period and it was quite extraordinary. every senior iraqi politician was the. thousands of people gathered around this mosque area. it is hard to tell, but i thi

at hes looking to be a major player in the elections. they were the first to try t form a coalition. it looks like his son is going to be ting over for the time being and we have to see how th do. >> mr. ambassador we do have addition questio. the last thing i want to do is burdened you with a lot of written record but if you wil permit us there ara few things we would like to make sure our part of our record so we will submit this to you and i will leave their record open until next week for purposes of other senators that have questions the need to submit. we are very grateful to you. i know it is a long way to travel and by thank you for itching your schedule with the house to comply with our needs here. and the same thing we said to you as we send you off in confirming you now the nation for this we think your the right person for the job and are grateful you, are there. it's tgh, and i think a lot of

the questions asked today may still be open and i even know that, to macbogk we look forward to working with you and look forward to bng held their sometime in the future to get a better look at things. thank you for the job your doing and please thank all of our embassy personnel and of course military personnel it is not forgotten here. we know they are there and carry enormously about the outcome and i appreciate wt you said today about the nd to secure the games and make sure the sacrifices to the greatest degree that we can were made for a purpose tt were still fiting for. so we thank you for that. >> thank you. >> thank you. we stand adjourned. thank you. [inaudible conversations]

now a pentagon briefing with general charles jacoby commander of american forces in iraq. he speaks with reporters v satellite about the ongoing security operations in iraq. th is just over 30 minutes. >> -- an overview, a brief update and then ke some of your questions. he's speaking today from camp victory in iraq read general, welcome and thank you for your time this afternoon. >> good morning, everyone. thank you, brianfor the introduction and ladies and gentlemen for alwing me to join you today it is a privilege. our operatis in iraq are progressing.

what our enemies here continue challenge and test theraqi forc. many areas in iraq remain dangerous and now it is made apparent again on tuesday with four service membe were killed while executing their mission here. and i would like to take just a minute to offer my heartfelt condolences to their families. currently our enemies are resortg to a campaign of seationalism through suffering by directing attacks against iraq's most vulnerable targets and attemp to discredit the government of ir and the iraqi security forces. were seein extremists and insurgents and terrorists employee on edie's against markets, shrines and other ples where family scattered and civilians go about their daily lives. even so we are witnessing the iraqi security forces adess the challenges head-on. they are not backing down and they are making steady progress towards taking full responsibility for the security of iraq's pele.

our partnership with iraqi securityorces is very strong so much so that i believe it is better now than was before 30th ofune. continue to provide advisers and trainers to support the security force securing iraqi cities. oucombat forces that are outside iraqi cities or employee if spectrum of operations partnered wi iraqi security forces iner tdeny safe havens for criminals and violent extremist groups presented their ability to move fely to and from iraq populated areas and helping secure its borders. the sons of iraq is another critical area that is seeing success. the government of iraq which took over the responsility of paying the sons of iraq and may is current on pay in all provces. in addition, more than 5500 sons of iraq have noween transferred a ministerial jobs with more scheduled to come. on the horizon we are working towards one of the decisive

point in their recent history of iraq. iraq is moving forward towards national elections. the iraqi people have embraced this chance they have for continued democracy. they are actively registering to vote right now in large numbers and iraq slightly politil activities andhe dates are a constant sin that all iraqis rejected secretary in bed violence and are choosing political discourse to resolve differences. there is a chanceoruccess here in iraq but it's very important to remember our ssion is not complet our emies will continue to attack progress and they will do it by killing and injuring innocent iraqi is. they will test ira security forcess we move toward elections and as a new vernment is seated. but i am confident iraqi security forces will pass the test and now i am happy to ke your questions. >> we will get started right here. daphne, why don't you lead off?

>> good afternoon, sir. this is dape. according to your intel, if al qaeda iq behind most of the attacks weave seen lately and if you have a present in mind of the attacks perpetrated by al qaeda and how big is the network to aid iraq and are they mainly find my terse or iraqi? >> thank you for that question. we think al qaeda and iraq remains a big problem, and they are greatly diminished since the da of just a few years ago. but they are still able to generate these high-profile attacks we are concerned about. the frequency of the attacks, the scale of the attacks not like we have seen in the past.

the ability to generate a high-profile attack now is causing concern and i would see it is the targeting of the attacks whi causes us the most ncern. and as i said in my opening statement, cle they are going after targets like civilian population centers whe civilians are meeting, where they are conducting their daily lives. they are doing that to discredit the iraqi security forces. they are doing that to try to incite secretary and violence. i beeve theraqieople have rejected that. we have not seen resort to sectian violence because of these attacks but it remains a concern. i also believe that alaeda is still supported toome extent much less thaf in the past from outside of iraq. it is mostly a home grown version of al qaeda in iraq but

it remains challenge. i think al qaeda and iraq will continueo test iraqi security forces but as i said in my opening statement i bieve iraqi security forcesartnered with us is up to the test. >> can you give us an idea of what is the proportion of attacks perpetrated by al qaeda, to give a an idea what is this wave of violence we are seeing? >> d'aspin reva i can tell you we believe many of these recent high-profile attacks our signature al qaeda attacks. and of course we take each and every one of them and investigate em thoroughly with iraqi security force part terse and it's important for us to determine where these attacks are coming from, the intent behind the attacks but i believe

many othe most recent attacks remain al qaeda attacks and as i said they have all the signatur of many attacks we've seen in the pt. >> the question was what you consider these attacks the majority. >> in the purple that we are looking at right now post the 30th of june i consider most of the attacks the high-profile attacis that you are seeinin getting the publicity or al qaeda attacks. >> jeff with stars and stripes. when i was in baghdad it appeared u.s. troops were taking more of the garrison pterpedic given the circumstances is it possible to accelerate the drdown from iraq?

>> thanks. well first of all i wouldn't characterize any of our forces as takin a kurson postu i see what you're seeing is the difference between being in counterinsurgency in the cities and to bring stability of ops. what we are doing is providing assistance. we are enablg iraqi security forces and training with iraqi security forces so those are the kind of actities you see and stability ops and in particular in the cities. throughout the rest of iraq we e doing full spectrum ops to include counterinsurgen ops partner with security forces. and so we're its required we will continue combat forces outside the cities to do tt. right n our strategy is on

track. we are cfident inhe direction we are going and we are headeinto full execution of the plan i terms of transitioning the force over the next year and a half. >> when i was in iraq i hrd an iraqi general ofcer say in baghdadi and madet clear they n't want to use american forces. so, if american fces are in essentially on the periphery in baghdad does that mean you can withdraw more of them quicker? >> we are happy with our current schedule. we think that the strategy is sound. we think our tactics are appropriate. i think the iraqi security forces a doingheir work in the cities. we are enabling and assisting them. they don't need our combat forces in the cities.

the types of things we help the with, when they ask for our intelligence surveillance, reconnaissance, medevac, some logistics. but in the past i think that we have seen them do in a credible job. i would point to some of the high-profile events like the pilgrimage where they were able provide almost complete security throughout very, very difficult time where millions of pilgrims had enteredery portant shrines thpoughout the city. so i think they've donstrated some great capability. i think we have got a good balancin things we're doing outside the cy's partnered with iraqi security force is putting pressure on the networks, helping secure the borders and in providing those kind of special assistance that requested not combat assistance reested by iraqi is in the

city's. >> donnermiles with american prep service. i am curious about what you see the le of these flew into iraq where do you plan to concentrate them and how will what they are doing support what your goals are? >> i did you asked about aab's, is that correct? okay. thank you. yes, the advice resistance brigades, it is a concept we believe in. we tnk it is the right way to go as we move from unter insurgency and fl spectrum ops to the strategy being donwith combat operations with u.s. forces in august of 2010. then we will be reliant on our advisory assistance brigades.

i think the important part about the advisory assistae brigade it i a mission and its a mind set an it is a series of tasks that we do, and i ran through them earlier. their advice, assis enable, train. those kind tasks that are clearly within the stability of this the and delete -- ops. we wl be conducting operations require at that te brigades should be onle by august 2010. we are having some good work with brigades right now that have been able to transition into stability opslearning a lot of lessons, sending those kind of observations back to the field orack to the training base as we continu to develop the advisory assistance brigades. great information exchange

between theater and back, the training base. >>here do you plan to concentrate these new brigades? >> we have done a fair ount of work studying where we think the advisory assistancbrigades can best sebve that mission. we will focus on areas where we can best support provincial reconstruction teams,here we can best continue training with iraqi surity forces the but like us to do that. and so they are very well dispersed throughout iraq concentratingn primarily those two factors. where does training get done and where is the support to provcial reconstruction a priority? >> hi congenital, this is courtney from nbc news. in response to jeff's second queson you said at you are

happy or content with of the of the schedule. i beeve you were referring to baghdad, u.s. troops in baghdad. both secretaryates and general odierno have recentl said that they are looking into possibly accelerating drawdown additional forces out of the country before the end of the year. where do you stand on that? where does your decisn stand right now? do you still anticipate being 100,000 u.s. troops in the country by the end of this year? >> yeah, thank you. really no decisions have been made about accelerating the drop down. we retain sufficient flexibility that as wstudy the operional environment if general odierno directors to change the drawdown in any way we will study that and we will make decisions based on changes in the operational environment. but right n as the corps

commander planning the daily botts and bolts of this operation, we have not been asked to speed up or slow down the withdrawal. we are on track, satisfied with the conditions on the ground, in terms of our ability to get our mission done and rename welford resources to accomplish that ssion. planning the nuts and bolts of do with fewer troops in iraq if you wer asked, if general odierno asked you? >> right now that discussion is not ongoing. right now as ientioned, in the opening comments, we are going through a period of time where the iraqi security forces are going to be tested. i'm satisfi that we have sufficient forces on the ground to partner with tataris forces outside the city to need to the

requirements for security. we also have the capability required to ovide assistance as requested by iraqi security forces. and so i would say that it asked, w would study that and get back. and it would be just another question of balancg capabilities against any risks that in that. but right now tre's no discussion of accelerating or slowing it down. and we are satisfied with the path of that we are . >> general, build michael. military times newspaper. you talked about your posture in baghdad where you're engaged and stability the degree which your oops are engaged in combat operations, and particularly up

for durham north in the area? >> yeah, sure. throughout the rest of iraq, outside of the major urban areas, there's a number of missions that we are engaged in. and i will tell you that all o them are fully partnered with iraqi security forces. d so there's a number of places where it's still ruired to clear a support zone, and a leah, historical area where there may be al qaeda forces prepping or training for a tax so we wilcontinue to conduct operations in those support sones. you may of course be familiar th the term the belts, the belts around baghdad, support zones are out losel. partnered with iraqi security forces e still conduct

opationsn those areas to deny tse areas as safe havens. and so it remains a dangerous job, one that our troops are trained and resources for and one that increasingly we do with the iraqi security forces in the lead and we will see that for some time to come especially as we work hard to set the condition for a stable and secure parliament election in january. bqt we are having good success. we are working hard on the borders as well,orki to devep capability to interdict anything that might be coming across the border that wld facitate insurgence that still remain here. and so those are th kind of combat operations that u.s. forces are still engaged in. >> genal, if i could follow up the question about your operations around the northern

area of iraq specifically about losel and how are your forces plaguing is, all to effort interrogate kurdish forces into the isf? >> i think that you're refring to the initiative prime minister maliki and president barzani asked the u.s. to assist with in terms of looking at what types of security mechanisms might be developed with the krg and with the goi, principally to ensure that we doot allow distance between those two surity rces becoming an area where the terrorist cou orte freely. right now we've been asked to essex and thinking our way through that, recommendations have been worked on. there are no hardroposals that

ve called for forward and no decisions. as you know, we play a role, in port and secure a role in the so-called disputed internal boundaries, and what we do is with iraqi security forces, create an environment of, security environment where the political ocess can cnue that helps the k and goi resolve any differences politically. that's the solution to any tension that might exist between the krg and the goi. as far as the mechanisms and structures that are put in place in the future, we are just plead that the initiative was started, that we were asked to help, and i hope it turns into something concrete but right now we are not -- w haven't reached anything more than the fullest tentative ideas. >> general, it is mike with cnn.

if i could aroach the drawdown -- theroup drawdown question again. both secretary gates a general odierno that said that bringing out an extra bgade by the end of the year would be based on security levels. at the beginning of this briefing, you kind of gave a mixed bag approach on security. do y think security is going to be stable enough by the end of theear to bring out an extra brigade? >> i tnk we are headed in a good direction. we are seeing iraqi security forces, as i said in my opening statement, made some good -- made some good testing. it's too early to sa right now whether the operaal in iraq is going to support accelerated oop withdrawals.

we will be ready to do that if we are asked to and if we think the security environmend has improved. one of the questions isowuch longer al qaeda can continue, because of its types of they are not frequen the qaeda and other insurgent forces such as jrtn and others cannot sustain this kind of tempo and we will see if they punch out. i will tell you iraqi security forces are ting initiative and working hard to sustain security and si'm optimistic in the sense that they are going after the problem and they are not backing down. and so we will see how the environmentmproves as we head towards thelection. but i will tell you it is a volatile perioand i think the testing will continue and i thin should expect it to.

if the environment is looking at the end of the year, like we can accelerate, then i am sure my superiors will have a stake a look at that and we will figure out whether we can get it done as the year closes out. >> [inaudible] with reuters. just to follow-up on the north, wa felt there was a pretty firm proposal for joint patrols between the kurdish iraqi forces and.s. forces. e you saying thatomething at isn't at the top of the list of things you're looking at doing up there? >> that's aood question. as you know, based on a couple of really successful electio, they have the iraqi security forces and krg security forces haveonjoint checkpoints together, and i would point to glad tidings of benevolence, an operation that was in diyala

during the month of may whe krg security forces and government of irasecurity forces d extensi operations together and were durham diyala. very successfully without conflict and had a good affect against the enemy. so on the listf things we will look for in tes of structures and mechanisms for joint security, that will be ang them. but it is a complicatedssue. and it's an issue that ruires high level discuions. and we are just -- as i said, we are pleased that the prime minister and the president had asked us to assist in this initiative. and we thk the prospects are good for success, and we will continue to work on it. >> [inaudible] -- timeline for how you would like to he these on your doud? i mean when you expect to be putting these in place,?

>> i have no expect to -- expectation when we think it could and get put in place. as you could imagine m business is a security. i don't like it when iraqi civilians are at rk. i don' like it when iraqi security forces are specifically targeted. al qaeda, jrtn and other extremist groups to get in of the distancend any attention that might axis twedn the krg security forces and iraqi security forces, very interested in this getting donner from negative seat as t general responsiblfor security. and so whatever i can do to help i will assist but this is a very high level discuion right now. >> we have got two more in the time we have. [inaudible] >> general, gordon frothe christian science monitor. just a qck question.

to the extent that you'r seeing violence ainst directed at u.s. forces hgw have the tactics of the in surgeons changed since june 30 change? >> well, of course in south 30 june we don't have u.s. forces out conducting combat operations within the cities. andrea really, and counterinsurgency, as you will salles over the last few years, a lot of at consisted of just u.s. forces increasingly partnered with iraqi security forces leaving f neighborhoods, talking to civilis, working with local governments and just being in and amongst theeople in fact that is one of the most important tenants as the counter insurgency model. so you know, that created for abilities and of course u.s. forces were at risk and they

placed themselves in order to get the mission done and we got the miion done. now we have withdrawn from the majgr urban areas ando, insurgents do not have the large number of u.s. soldiers moving through the urban are to engage, and they have -- y have seen a decrease in u.s. casualties. the are, as you know, continued to pose a threat. the loss of life two days ago, both of them were ied is on call the police. that remains a significant threat to us. we have a great capabilities against those, but that still remains a dangerous threat and we have to treat it very, very carefully. so, the w that the enemy gets at us, some of the tacti, techniques and procedures have not changed all that much, but

the presencef u.s. forces out inhe countryside working with iraqi security forces the is less of the vulnera@ility than there was when wwere worng amongst the people. i think one of the important things that shows you is a little bit about our emies. our enemies sd it was all about attacking collision or u.s. fors and so there's sll 130,000 u.s. forces here, and yet the attacks on u.s. forces are significantly down bu attacks against iraqi security forc and iraqi civilians has been very large and casualty has been high. since 30 june you have seen this targeting shift that really lls you a lot about the remaining insurgents and of their intent and purposef their attack both to discredit the government of iraq seeking to return to secretary of violence. and as i said earlier, we've

seen iraqi law people reject the return to sectarian iolence and we've seen the government of aq take the problems head-on. >> real quick butre you seeing more attacks against u.s. bases? >> no, we've not seen a significantrend in attacks against u.s. be basis. >> if we could indulge you we wi take is as the last one. >> you mention ied and i was wonding if you can say h effective task force odin has been encountering the thrift. estimate that as a -- >> that is a great question. odin is effective because of banks' multiple sensors and to quote play against he targets that improvised explive devices and its adaptable and we can test it directly against a

threat, taskforce on is a great capability and we have learned a lot from it as a fce over the months that we've been able to uset. and we are still getting lot of value out of it. [inaudible] >>eally quick clarification, general,hat will let you go. general, canou clarify what you ant an answer to gordos queson in the attack against isf and ira civilians the large? can you quantify that at all explaining what you mean by that? >> yeah, that wasn't as well put as it could it have been. i am speaki spefically about the high-profile attac tha are directed specifically against ira security rces and iraqi civilian targets. what we have seen is not necessarily a statistical increase in fact since 30 june statistically the attack numbers

are down in most categories, and even in most others. and it's really the effeiveness of t attacks becausehey are going after ry vulnerable targets that concerns us. >> welcome general, we do want to bring this to an end and be respectful of your time, but before we close it let me just tkss it back to you in case there's any final thoughts that you might have first. >> yeah, thanks a lot. i really appreciate th opportunityo talk to you all. i wanted you to know that i believe our partnership with iraqi security forces is strong. it's stronger now than it was prior to 30 june. i wanted you to know that er is testing going on d there's dustin that's going to continue over iraqi security forces. but there are elements, insurgents, extremists that have a stake in ting to prevent a free, strongpace iraq and to

divide the great partnership that exists, between iraqi security for the government of iraq, the united states and u.s. forces, and we are going to std should shoulder to should with aqi security forces as they need that task and i also want to comment that the mison is getting done because ofreat soldiers, sailors,, airmen marine that make up multinational corps iraq antell you how proud i am of them and thank their fate families for the support they give them every day. thank you. >> general, thanks again for your time and we hope we can do this with you again this very soonnd i've been handed a note that says feel free to invite your boss, general odierno to join us in this format, too. >> ok. [laughter] i will. thank you.

the obama adnistration said the january 22nd, 2010 as a deadline to close the guantanamo bay facility. several legal issues still surround this decision including the handling of terror prosecutim in civilian crts and military trials to u. soil. this event is hosted by t americanar association and is

about 45 minutes. [inaib conversatns] >> good morning. let me begin. thank you for coming. we very much appreciate it. my name is harvey. i the new chair of the standing committee on national security law taking over from the excellent stewardship of al hardee and he has become the chair of the advisory committee. as many of y know we are one of the oldest communities in the american bar association and we were found by justice it in the earl60's and our mission has always bn to educate the puic about the importance of the world law and preserve the freedoms of democracy othe national security. there have been many distinguished chairs who i follow from stewart baker to

john many of them in throom today. these programs we are having today that meet our goal and that we are achievinghat we want to do. as younow, we have a number of series of projects we did over the summer. we are connuing our work process on terrorism series involving preventative detention alternatives. we also did a study done on privacy and one of cyber. and these will all be on the web site which i will announce after theiscussion. we are here today though, and it is an honor and pleasure for me to introduce charles johnson, general unsel of the departmentf defense joining today. he is a moorehouse man and lumbia graduate. his degreis a mixture of ivate practice and distinguished service. she began a public service

assistant u.s. attorney in the southern distric new york where he prosecuted public corrtion cases. in the late 80's and early 90's, he was a federal prosecutor and tried high-prile case and even argued and number of cases on appeal. joined the famous law fir of paul weiss and there is he went on to do a high-speed commercial cases. he had corporate crimes who ranged from armstrong, citigroup and solomon smith barney. in 2004, he was elected a fellow in the prestigious american college of trial lawyers. of october 98, president clinton appointed the department of air force. he served in that the position 27 months and returned to private practice with paul weiss and early january of 2001. while in private practicof he was acting in numerous activities from 20040 chaired they bar association which as you allvñ know appres all of e

state and local judges of new york city. mr. johnson s also a member on the council of forei relations and director of the university, the frernal federal bar counci new york community trust, a fund for courts, legally it says to society, for civil rights under the ball and new york city bar fund. and in some societies lincol theater. he's also on the board of vernors at the franklin and eleanor roosevelt institute. in january 2007 mr. johnson was one of seven nominated by the new york state cmiion on judicial nominees to the chief judge of the state. the governor reappointed the incumbent justice judith k. so it was lucky for us that mr. johnson didn't get yet. he served on president-elect obama's transition team and then became general counsel in february. and last but not least he's a member of of our committee for a

number of years. so it is my great pleasure for me to introduce mr.ohnson. he will speak about 20 minutes and then we will have q&a for 15 minutes and that will conclude the progm ani will announc upcoming events. thank u very much. [applause] >> thank you for reminding me of alof the committees and the legations and directorships i've had to reside to take this job in public service. [laughter] it is a pleasure f me to be here today. can everybody hear me? it is a easure for me to be here today and see so manyood friends associated with this committee, associated with my previous life, pentagon, general norman, judge of the air force one of the general counsel of air force, mary l. fer, my

special assistant then. personal france year, distinguished members od judiciary. one person i want to single out today and pay special tribute to i did not expect to see here today but it a pleasure and honor to see today is bill coleman. the first time i metill coleman -- he will not remember the first time. it was june, 1974. i was in philadelphia and was asd the wedding of my first cousin, and my uncle, maurice clifford, i was 16, didn't know what i wanted to do. thought i was going to probably end up playing left field for the new york mets. [laughter] and my uncle and his kristen said i am goingo take you by a

neighbor of mine in philadelphia named william coman. he is a hot shot corporate lawyer in philadelphia ana black man. and for me, the thought of an african-american in corporate law on the supreme court then was about as unfathoble the fault of serving in this adnistration for barack obama than. i went by to meet mr. coleman, and my uncle told me ofbout him in his practice and that left a huge impression on me even then at age 16, and bill coleman has been a trend set in oh-la-la he has been a role model for me. it is i suppose some what of coincidence, but he was the first african-american lawyer with paul weiss and i am the

first african-american partner at that law fir so it is goodo see mr. coleman. thank you very much for being here. [applause] thank you for the invitation to be with you today. i was a member of this committee for several years and aended many conferences. i learned much of retired why spend time at this committee and i have encouraged many of my colleagues at the department of fense to become more involved withou. i received this invitation many months ago and spent considerable time thinking about what i would say today. i considered sharing of the nuts and bolts of the legal issues surrounding one or two major litigation pending against the defense department right now. my insides, personal involvement i testified four times befor congress in july alone on legislative reform of military commissions. currently pending has

section 1031 of s39b the senate version of our descent authorization act. then i realized there was a much larger, virginia she we face today. sothing that in the day-to-day grind of my own shopping i must recall from myself every once tomorrow marks the eighth anniversary of the day that along with december 7th, 1941 and november 22nd1963 as 1 of the darkest single days in american history. many of us had terrific, very personal first hand connections with tragic events of that day. i suspect some of you in this room were in the pentagon that day and acted heroilly to care for t lives of your coeagues. for me there are certain vivid recolltions of the day i will never ske. i had been back in practice in new york for nine months after

serving 27 months and the air force and the clinton administration. it was primary day-to-day decrats were going to vote for mayors and otherity officers. i drove to work that day from my home in new jersey to my office in midtown manhattan. ..

my office was on the 28 floor of 1285 avenue of the americas oris lee new new yorkers call it six than 51st. my office was on the east side of the building near the southeast corner. step out of my office and from the associates office a few feet away was a clear view down sixth avenue of the world trade center. i was an eyewitness to the destruction caused by the first plane. the impact of the second plane at 9:03 and the collapse of the tower at 10:28:00 a.m.. the images of smoke and destruction agnst the backdrop of a cle beautiful s are burned into my memory. after the pengon was hit, many of y will call in should

recall as a lesson in crisis management the number of false reports elsewhere that day. i remember seeing the fighter jet over manhattan and the remembered the drive home over the george washington bridge. all the traffic on that great bpidge was appointed one way, headed out of the city while no traffic was allowed in. the city that they had been attacked and it did indeed feel like a war zone. politics this side, i wld call feeling terrible that i left the service powerle to do anything thathe position of general counsel of the department of the air force was fine months into the new administration still vacant and i was not at the pentagon that day with my career colleagues. i wanted to do something. i walked the streets looking for a hospital that would except blood donations. like decemr 7, 1941 and

november 22, 1963, september 11, 2001 is a single day the change the direction of our country like no other. one mor milary operation was launched as a direct result in the second military operation in iraq some will argue s launched as a direct result of the environment created post-9/11. we faced an i-defined enemy that had penetrated our borders. we knew of the anthrax attacks but we did not know when and where they would in. our leaders mardis of the next terrorist attack that would be even bigger than the attack on 9/11. the psyche of the american public change. we were afraid and we feared for safety and that of our children. it was within the context of this environment that certain national security legal judgments were made, which conventional legal wisdom now says were plainrong. we read now declassified olc

legal opinions and there's done this in your lawyer's of our government would in detailed and graphic terms approve waterboarding, confinement in crampedpaces, or driving him of sleep all in the name of national security. reading these opinions from 2002 and 2005 and what you see is the thinking of an era. so they we faced a national security crisis that did not and does not fit neatly within either of the law of r or the law and enforcement box. i raise all this not to criticize or score political points. my job i to get it rightor now and for the future. butut of the legal judgments that were made in the years that immediately followed 9/11, there are a few were our president has referred to in a very different context, teachable moments.

this morning that would like to share with you my n observations in this regard. after only seven months on the job of general counsel for the department of events i am still learning and i hope to continue to learn. first, as national security lawyers we must be cautious about the leg judgments we make during times of fear, uncertainty or national emergency. as justice o'connor to in my opinion is the mt influential supreme court justices, wrote in hamdi v rumsfeld it is during our mustin sir moments that are nati's commitment to due process is most severeltested and it is in those times have we must preserve our commitment at me to the principles for which we fight abroad. one of my personal pledges is to adhere to that principle. as lawyers it is our job to be steadfast in our alication of the rule of la regaress of the political climate or

changing times. we must help shape policy po fit the law. we do not shape the law to fit policies. one of my closest friends, one of my closest family friends is a retireivy league professor in his late 70's. he is one of the most courteous, dignified and mild-mannered man you'll ever meet the 1960's was considered by many to be one of the intellectual engines of the civil-rights movement. he was considered by others to be a dangerous radical subversive. our own government wiretapped his home phes and sent informants to sit in on his glasses, reflecting the fear ending 580 of that period. we must all be wary that even with the knowledge and approval of its lawyers our government can go too far. second, policymakers, lawyers, judges and lawmakers cannot claim a zero tolerance for torture but then try to render

opinions that carve out exceptions or enhance interrogationechniques. we simply cannot issue a rule or legal opinion that says you can hit a man but don't hit him too hard and expect thousands of personnel in the field to know exactly where that line is. as our commanders in the field know issue a rule of law in an opinion like that in the exception would quickly eat up the rule. and the message to the interrogator in the field is that senior officials of our government are willing to tolerate a lot more. third, we were reminded in the political debate of the last few years that torture, cruel and inhuman or degrading treatment of those we capture are contrary to american values. this is more than a legal judgment. it is a judgment about who we think we are as americans. as american as george washinton is the value we place on the dignity and basic humanights of the individual.

indeed in 1776, after the battle of trent it was george washington hill wrote in order covering the preatment of prisoners and said, treat them with humanity and let them have no rean to complain of our copying the burd example of the british army in their treatment of our in fortunate. this is the history, this is our history as a nion and others in the world community looked it was ande by this example. in december 2005, i attended a meeting of retired generals and admirals gathered to sign a letter in support of the mccain the amendment. i recall one, 85-year-d to star general. these were not politicians, they were n well versed in the policy debates of washington but they we all in unequivocal in declaring simply americans do not torture, with no exceptions. this is not about protecting the

bad guys. it is about who we say we are as americans. that was the consensus ithe room that day. this ishy i am pleased that in the area of military coission's reform been in the admissibility and evidencof statements tha are taken as a result of the cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment was one of the very first things we did in his new administration. i am also pleased this was done with unanimous support of the judge advocates general of the army, navy air force and commandante marines. this potential for the used in evidence of such c i d statements as we refer to them, was the most controversial item about the military commissions act of 2006 and in my opinion costs the commission system more incredibility then it could ever benefit by obtaining a few extra convictions. the banaa enzi id statement was a change we put forward in may of 2009 among the five rules

changes to military commission procedur and it is a change further codified in the pending senate legislation on military commission's reform. fourth, as i preach many times before a collaborative an open working relationship between our excellence civilian attorneys and our-- produces better quality judgment and advice. the fibro chang i spoke of a moment ago where they joined work product of our j.a.g. and civian lawyers. and july testified before congress and promoted one standard for the admission of a detainees statement on behalf of the obama administration. the judge advocate general of the services testified in proposed another. in early august the put this together in a conference room in my office, lawyers from dod and the white house in doj, j.a.g. in civilian and out of that meetg came an agreement on language which we submitted to

congress. if all of the lawyers in the executive branch can agreeo it must be pretty good. having said all it said about the fantastic work we lawyers are doing, we must guard against ov lawyer in national security. we are at war with al qaeda. the president reiterated that in his speech at the national archives on may 26. we must guard against doing this or as a law enfcement operation and we must guard against the devising legal guidance for the warfighr that only a lawyer can comprehend. i am pleased to be part of an administration that has made the rule of law a cornerstone of s national security policynd to have a central role in that policy. president obama is a lawyer and a smart one. he believes ani agree that promoting our own country as a nation of laws we promote national security by occupying the moral high ground in

committees of which al qaeda must recruit. senator obama campaigned on this idea and i for one interpret 65 electoral votes as a mandate to pursue this policy in office. on a more immediate level, we must do this to restore our credibility in the courts. the courts arnell into the business of national security to an extent that one could have imagined eight yrs ago. this is not because we invited them there, it is because we juror sharp line in the sand and tearhem not cross. even appointees of the prior admistration are showing an increasing impatience with their claims there are areas of national security and to which courts canno intrude. no person is above the law and no area of government operations is beyond reach of a lot. this morning i've tried to describe to you the principles that guide me inffice but there are no easy answers to the questions that we face.

i say it all the time. but i wouldike you to all be patient with us. we are doing our best. thank you for listening. [applause] with that, i will dare to take a few questions. anybody haveny questions? thank you very much for coming. i just wanted to ask a question th i ask all of our speaker you spoke about-- and i'm curious what your advice might be for individual attorneys seeking careers and personal charactestics they might bring to t table in terms of supporting policy leaders?

>> well, my first immediate thought is become invodved wit the work of this committee in thsection of the aba. it is a terfic organization. every fall for a couple of years when i came down from new york to participate in the annual conference, i was so impressed with the depth of knowledge, the lawyers and government and th lawyers in private practice who participated in this committees conference. i remember for example chuck allen, who was their depy for international law, participating in several panels. he had just comeack from iraq then and so the work of this committee provides terrific insights. i would say that what would be most important, and we have lawyers in the general counsel's office of dod who have then

alongside the operators in the field, with special forces, in our combatant command who served in the plague areas two of had the experience of advising the or fighter, who come back to the pentagon. that is a terrific experience and a perspective that not all of us have. and we have got lawyers like that now in the general counsel's office and i certainly value their experience. i would say what is most important of all is a buried and diverse career. working for example in a large law firm in new york or washington as an associate is an excellent training ground for skills and developing skls and tools as a lawyer. i am obviously a huge fan of public service myself having

been an assistant u.s. attorney and having served twice in washington so would say a barry career but i'm a huge, huge fan of involvement in bar association work. any other questions? >> good morning. i wonder what you testified that thfour times hreferred to-- that the administration was on track-- is that still your view? [inaudible] >> what i think i said was that in terms of the reviewrocess, the detainee byetainee review, we were onrack and i believe that is still the case.

as of july when i testified that thk we have reviewed more than half of the detainees files were well-- we are we'll pass that. guantana, closing guantanamo obviously is something tt this president and this administration is committed to doing. we believe that is something that should be done as a matter of promoting national security. a bipartisan group of distinguished americans, john mccain, a number of generals in the field, a number of senators, republican and democrats have called for the closure of guantanamo bay. george w. bush at one point said he would like to close guantanamo bay. secretary gates believes the same thing. our administration's view is that bureaucracies work best with aeadline, so we set

ourselves the deadline. there are many challenges to closing guantanamo bay and transferringetainee's, releasing detainees to the appropriate places but we all remain committed to doing this and we remain committed to doing this on the deadline that the presidentet but there are many challenges any other questions? yes,ir. >> mr. secretary? [inaudible]

[inaudible] [inaudible] >> interesting thought. [laughter] thank you for that. yes, sir. >> is this a case that under loy

airing in the face fear can get us into trole? certainly understandably advise s against over lawyer in. what are theactors that policymars, including the lawyers need to apply in making that judgment as to the correct inappropriate-- particularly when we are faced with somebody else's feared? >> well, u.s. truck upon the essence of my job, and i guess i would art by answering that, i would start my answer by saying does that make common sse, and

my philosophy is, as lawyers, we should help theolicymakers build the policy from the ground up. we should not come in at the 11th hour anday yes or no to something that has been constructed over the last 12 months. we should be involved in the construction of that policy from day one so we can help guide the construction of the policy or the rules of engagement or the security agreement or what have you from day one. and, i always come back to, does it make common sense, bullet make common sense to our clients that become out the way we come out? most of the time i think it does. sometimes it doesn't and you have to scratch your head and y how did the lawyeet to where they g, and i have found instances where we were actually

able to take a step back, apply some comnegal sense to our judgments and me it work for everybody. when i talk about over lawyer in the process, one of the things i am thinking about is as lawyers we like to provide guidelines. we like to fill vacuums and codify things. and when i find a lot of legal jargon going into the guidance that we give, and we are all very good it legal jargon. we learned in law school and we like to use it and when find a lot of legal jargon finding its way into the guidance to the warfighters, to the commanders i asked our lawyers to take a step back and let's try to restate this and common-sense language. so pple can understand because

the kiplagat guidance that only the jack in the field can interpret for the warfighter in the field that i'm not sure we are doing the wharf fighters gabriel service but it is obviously a balance d the other thing that i have in mind is that because as i said in my prepared remarks, the current conflict is unconventional or the sense that it is not to nations fighting a declared war against one another, you can't fit everything we do neatly in one box or another, so we work hard to find the appropriate rules and duper peart rule of law for the situations we face, anwe have to be careful not to view everything we do law enforcement, as mply law-enforcement. when i testifi in july i said several times that the essential

mission of our natn's military is not evidence collection. it is to cture and engage the enemy and we did not want to change the warfighters mission in the battlefield in deployed areas on the possibility that there might be a criminal prosecion for a violation of the loss of four. that is not their mission so that is what i mean when i say we shouldn't over lawyer the process so i hope i have answered your question. yes, sir. >> i aee that careful balance and it is a fine line between overlawyering and underlawyering [inaible] in reference to slapping a

prisoner, the standard is not common sense. [inaudible] the fact that we have that standard shows how difficult it is and it would satisfy the courts. in europe, the european union, there is a line and yet in europe they can-- and we cannot. dealing with international liaisons' and counterparts to try to reconcile the different international legal differences on some of these very close calls? >> very caref. when i was in afghanistan, and i

would visit j.a.g. offices some of those j.a.g. offices would be populated by a military lawyers from our coalition partners like canada for example. i would start talking about u.s. law and how we apply u.s. lot in the field and the canadian lawyers would pipe up and say well it is not how we do ht and it is not the international standard either and we would have very interesting discussions about how you apply that in a forward deployed area so, it iifficult and we have international borroeighth that seem to work. they are not perfect, and it is striking a balance. we value the contributions of our coalition partners, so it ain't easy is the answer to your question. there is no simple answer. eddeasy t we do our best.

yes sir. >> i wanteto ask earer--n the president's campaign i believe he used the legal word political blk hole. can you address the policies surrounding the detentions of prisoners at bagram given their word-- and why the ministration is taking-- and those detenons and bagram? >> as you probably know we are in the pcess of building a new facility there, which i think wi be, which will be first rate. i believe that the guards and the force tt we have employed the is first rate. the bagram population is a much

re and then out population. there is more turnover in the population. many of them are transferred to the government of afghanistan, and so the nature of the population is different and we are, our attention operations there, we engage very much with th cooperation and participation with the government of afghanistan so i think it is a fundamentally different exercise. there is litigation involving whether th habeus remedy should extend to a cerin segment of the population in bagram which is on appearight now, and so i regard afghanistan as a fdamentally different place and it is the case and the supreme court said this and

hamdi in 2004, that a fundamental part of the mission of the military is to capture and detaining the enemy, so as long as there are militaries it will be in the business of capturg and detaining the enemy. it is part of what they do. guantanamo has become an international symbol, counterproducte to our national security interests and we are dermined to close at. it is fundamentally different from bagram. yes, sir. >> "the wall street journal" reported this morning that the international court is looking into investigating nato peonnel over war crimes and afghanistan. could youomment? >> i have not read the ory so couldn't comment, sorry. i think i've time for one more question. yes, sir.

>> as an ouider the recall reading one of the difficulties -- and a number of j.a.g. officers and the state partment wondered what kind of interency approaches than the administration has taken to ensure that-- the important aspect. >> well my answer to that was reflected in my prepared marks. for example, the five rules changes we came up with and made for military commissions was done very much in collaration with a broad array of people within t defense department, in the interagency pross. that work originated within e

defense department in march actually. i putogether a big room, about this size, lots of lawyers, j.a.g. and civilians who were involved in the prosecution of theefense of military commissions. our three tea j.a.g.'s and we talked about what can we do, what do we think we can do to reform the system and i fervently believe that the best legal judgments and the best legal device comes from collaboration with lots of people. you make the healthiest decions when you collaborate with lots of different peopl and get lots of different points of view. as a practicalatter somebody is cut out of the process and it's the legaludgment iwrong they are going to let you know that their work cut out of the process but more fdamentally i belie the best legal judgments are made when you include lots of people in a process. we have a very good relationship with olc.

i speak weekly, mayb several times a week with lawyers in that office to get their advice. they consult us and the departmentf defense and if we have a good working relationship with them right now, and more broadly in this admintration, thisdminstration likes collaboration. they liked the participation in the interagencyrocess of lawyers and non-lawyers. i am at the white house two to three times aeek for meetings and decision-making sessions, s anyway, i hope i have answered your question and thank you all very much. i appreciate it. [applause] >> thank you jeh, thank you for

the questions and thank you for j.a.g. corp.. i have a brief set of it administrative announcements. the first is our next program will beyond september 20 for sponsor with the catholic university school of law. i want to thanmichael since the program will address classified matters and-- people are watching can go to our we site www.abe net.org/security to see the particulars of that. we also have, i want to thank jeh for mentiong our annual review. our 19th annual riew on the field of national security law will be taking place on november 12th and 13th in washington dc. we will be including legislative and executive general counselor panel discussio. jeh has agreed to participate in that particular panel and we also will have panels on

cybersecurity, piracy, mitary commissions and narcotics trafficking along the border. registration can be for web site or we have forms in the back. i want to thank the number of people who have helped work on our projects. thatncludes people who are in th roo suzanne spaulding, friedman, deb perlstein, peter hansen, ruth wedgewood, and finally theerson we always have to thank was holly mcminn hugh is the glue of this particul organization and she hadone an outstanding job over this period of time and we always can't thank her enough. [applause] that concludes the program this morning. ted offer coming in jeh, thank you and good luc

[inaudible conversations [inaudible conversations]

colleagues of center kennedy paid trite to the massachusetts lawmaker who died la month. it begins with senate leaders harry reidn mitch mcconnell. then senators patrick leahy and orrin hatch. this is an hour, ten minutes. >> a freshman senator should be seen and not heard, should lear and not teach.

that is a quote from ted kennedy. these are the first words he spe in the employee of this chber. he was hesitant to speak that april d when he said thos words. he had been a center for less than 18 months. he was still reeling from president kennedy's that-- death. the questiowas a civil-rights act of 1964. senator kennedy knew he could hold his tongue and no wonder. he waited as long as he did to give that speh because he loved in this instituon. he saithat is the senator should be seen and not heard 45 yearsater we can still hear his great booming voice. he said young center should learn and not teach but hickham less all that we learned in his leadership? it was a thrill to work with ted kennedy for me personally. he was a friend, a model of

public service and an american icon. he was the patriarch in the keedy family and the senate family. so many times tha were difficult and the family's story, the kennedy's turn to their uncle tey for comfort. at some any critical times in our country's history america's turn to ted kennedy for the same. we can all remember as he walked with the grieving first lady at arlington national cemetery. we can remember how he showed his deep love for his brother and helped him some house summoned the strength to deliver a fine eulogy that he delivered in new york. we can all remember how his patriarchy memorialized his nephew off the shores of massachusetts. for decades ted kennedy was a

rock to his family and the impact is etched into our history. it is no left up to us to remember the man who helped remember-- mr. president he is very famous man. he would tace the subway and people would alws come to senator kennedy and i would joke with him. ted, are they coming for me or for you? it was obvious who they were coming for. it was a je. he was so good. when he thought you did someing well, he would drop you a no or give you a call. that really meant a t to me, that he would take the time to do that and i have come to learn and what is happened since he did that for so many people. he didn't have to be senator. he would do that for anyone who he thought deserved a pat on the back so it is up to us to celebrate the senator who hel

sell many live better lives. and then a long to bodi of the kennedys and an admirer as a student did utah state university. i found the first young democrats club in that bastion of republican is some. i worked fopresident kennedy's election in 1960. a week before he took office, that is president kennedy, before he took the oath of office and implored us to ask what wcould do for our country, john kennedy sent me a personal letter of facts. he had won the electn. he had not yet been inaugurated in the send me a personal letter. it is in the reception area of my office. the personal letter that he sent me w the work i did out west on the camign. that letter still hangs at the doorway of my capitol office

just steps of th senate floor but the three young this kennedy brothers have served many times otted would come into my office and opped and looked at that letter, many times. and he would always say, that is his sigture. indicating that some staff have not signed it o some machine had not signed it. he was proud that his brother had done what he learned from his broth to do, send these very meaningful letters. he was proud of his brother, ted was, a proud of his own work in the western states during the 1960 race and proud that i kept thatemo and such a prominent place. president-elect kennedy's letter were shortcome and lot too sure but it overflowed with optimm. he wrote to me that the incoming arrow would allow us to "make

our country and even better place for citizens to live as well as strengthen our country's position of leadership in the world." think how i felt getting that leer mr. president. i was still a student. d kennedy shared the dream that his brother had and he never stopped working to realize it. d kennedy legacy stance with the eatest and most pager men and women to serve in these calls. because of ted kennedy more yog children could afford to become healthy. because of ted kennedy more than adults could afford to beco college students. warfare all the citizens iour poorest citizens could get the care ty need to liv longer lives. because of ted kennedy, minorities women and immigrants could realize the rights of our founding documents, the rights our fnding documents promise them andecause of ted kennedy

more americans could be proud of their country. ted kennedy came from a family of great wealth and stus. he did not need to work hard for himself, so we chose a life working hard for others. he w admitted to the massachusetts law in 19. the application asked him to state his main ambition. ted kennedy answered and i quote, public service of the stat to quote one of his favorite poems, robert frost that now res onis desk here in the senate, that has made all the difference. ted kenne's america is one in which all could pursue justice, enjoy equality in n freedom. that is ted kennedy. ted kennedy's life was driven by hi love of a family that loved him and his belief in a country that believes in him.

ted kennedy's dream was one for which the founding fathers fought and wch his brothers sought to realize. the liberal lines by the war may fall silent but his dream shall never die mr. president. is all this brother killed in world war ton-- world war i, recognizing he would never come back. his brother the president assassinated, h brother the senator running for president assassinated. e liberal line's mighty or may fall silent but mr. president his dream shall never die. >> mr. president. >> the republican leader. >> mr. president too would like to speak about our departed

cully, ted kennedy whose passing last month focus the attention of the nation d his extraordinary life has been memorialized over these past weeks in so many poignant stories and heartfelt expressions of gratitude and grief. today the senate also grieves not only beuse he was a friend, but beaause the senate was@ so much a part of who he was. and because he became so much a part of the senate. the simplest measures shared longevity. at the time of this debt ted could call himself the third longest serving senator in history, having served alst one-fifth of the time the senate itself has existed. thrt consider this. when i was an intern here in the '60s ted was alrea a

well-known senator and when i was elected to the senate nearly a quarter of a century ago ted had already been here for nearly a quaer of a century. he served with him presidents or nearly o out oevery four of them. no one could have predicted the kind of run for t on the day he became a center of back on november 7, 1962, no one that is except maybe tett. ted-- as far back as 1965 when he spoke of setting a record for longevity. like mansfield saw a klemz-- if youears later when somebody mentioned ted as a possible candidate mansfield responded he is in no hurry. he is you. he likes the senate. of all the candidates he is the one who was and is a real senat man.

as it turned out mansfield uas right by ted new even than that his legacy as a law maker wouldn't come about just by sitting at his desk. he would have to build it. and over the course the next 47 years, that is exactly what he did, slowly, patiently, doggedly making his mark as much and tedious committee hearings as on the stump, as much in the details of legislation as in its broader themes. ted's last name insured he was e of the stars of american politics even before he became a setor. to this day he is still the only man or woman in u.s. history to be ected to the senate while one of his relatives sat in the white house but to those who thought ted even if elected wod avoid the rigors of publi life, he became a living rebuke.

in short, he became a senator. he surprised the skeptics. first of all with his friendliness and his wit. when he made his national political debut in 1962n meet the press, a questioner asked him if maybe there already too many kennedys. s response, you should ve talked to my motr andather. and what has to go down as the false is first depressions in modern politics long spoke approvingly of the new senator from massachusetts as quote a quiet sortfellow. ted got along with every t he. the earliest memories family members have our of ted laughing and making other people laugh. his secret weapon then and years later as chris dodreally pointed out in onef the

memorial services was simply this. people like him. so much so that he could call people like jim eastland, somebody with whom he had absoluly nothing in common with, a friend. we learned early on he could be more effective through alliances and relationships then by hollering and hearing on amy all novey did a fair amount of that as well. he provided some of the best theater the senate has ever known but once it left the chamber he turned off, he sought out alls were ready to find them. strom thurmond, dan quayle, warren hatch, john mccain and even george w. bush and the earn tir cooperation by keeping his word and for thousands of small acts of kiness. senator mccain has recounted the birthday bash that ted through him ten years ago for

his son jimmy's 11th birthday. senator booras the remembers declinist ted showed him as the new senator and senator barrasso's family will long remember how much time senator kennedy spent sharing stories with them at the reception after the swearing in and he was one of the last on to leave. like so many others i have known ted graciousness first-hand. anyone who watches c-span to could see ted frehli at the top of his lungs against my posion o this policy o that policy. what they didn't see was the magnifict show he put on it yes ago in kentucky at my invitation for students or the fine photo he gave me of my political role model. i intern for cooper is a young man. d did thaand he knew cooper wa a neighbor in good friend of his brother, jack. ted askeglariest this was

legendary. but s passion and iensity as a lawmaker would only reach near mythic proportions in his own lifetime. and even those of us who saw the same problems with different solutionon issue after issue, even we couldn't help but find the focus in the fight ted brought to every state in which he played a part. over the years weame to see what he was doing here in the senate. gwinne came to ted's future everyone was always looking at it through the prism of the presidency. they should have fused on this chamber instead. it was a year that he slowly build thkind of influence and voice for a national constituency and tha was common for senators in the 19th century but extremely rare in the 20th. he became a fire spokesman for liberals everywhere.

ted and i would have a hard time agreeing on the color of e carpet when we were in the chamber together. yet despite his public image and it a liberal firebrand he was fainatedthe hard work of creating consensus in jumped into that work even toward the end with the enthusiasm of the young staffer. ted's high school teammates recall tha never walked. always ran. anyone whover sat across from ted at the conference table believe that. ted realized senators could do an awful lot once they got past the magnetic pole that pennsylvania avenue has for so many senators. his brother jack once says the senator he thought the president had all of the influence kent, and it wasn't until he was president-- it was a similar inside the lead ted to tillie group of "boston globe" reported

in 1981 that for him the senate was fulfilling, satisfying, challenging and that he could certainly spend his life here, which of course he did. and then when it wasinding down, he's saw what he had done as a senat and wt the senate hadone for him. and he wanted others to see if too. so he set about t establish the edward m. kennedy institute for the united states senate, a place that would focus on this institution the way presidential libraries focused on president's. e founders envision the legislative and executive branch is cabrying equal weight. article i is about congress after all, not the presidency. is like the legacy helpe restore that vision of the legislative counterweight of equal weight.

that is an important institutional contribution every senator can appreciate. something he d your hard wk turned o to be tenacity in are will. it wasn't the legacy most expected but it washe legacy he-- and in the end he could call it his own. toward the end of his life e of the great lawmakers of the th century, henry clay, was asked to speak to the kentucky general assembly. thanks to clay pots separates the comppise of 1850 had just been reached and clay had become a national hero berridge joppy it spent most of his career trying to escape. his spch received national coverage and according to one biographer--. for years clay had wanted

nothing more than to be president of the unite states. now, after this lt great legislative victory, something else came into view. clay told the assembledrowd that did that in the course of months and months of intense negotiatins leading up to the great compromise, he h consulted the democrats just as much as the head th members of his own party. he found them just, he found in them justs much patriotisand on their essie had found with the clicks. the whole experiee had moved clay away from party rivalry. he said toward a new goal. i want no office, no station in th gift of men he said, except a warmeplace in your hearts. every man has his own story. ted kennedy never moved away from partyivalries.

he was a fierce partisan to the en but over the years, he reminded the world of the great potential of this institution and even came to embody it. we will never forget the way he filled the chamber with that booming voice, waving his glass at his side, jabbing his fingers in the air or the many times we sawim playing outside th his dogs. how many times did we spot him coming through the doorway or onto an elevator, his hair wide as the surf and think, here comes history itself. as the and this child and onef the most influential political families in u.s. history ted kennedy had enormous shs to fill. yet in nearly 50 years of service as a young senator, a

candidate for president, egg legislative force and an elder statman it is hard to argue he did not fill those shoes in part alby himself. it ihard to imagine the senate without ted thundering on the floor. it will b harder still i am sure for the kennedy family to thinof a future without him. you could say all of these things and more about the late senator from massachusetts, and you could also say this. edward moore kennedy will always have a warm place in our hearts. >> the memory i have was on augu 26, when very, very early, early in the morning we heard the news about senator

kennedy. we knew the day was cing that we would lose a close friend of over 35 years, but a farm hse in vermont was still filled with grief on learning of the news. we walked back and fth in the road in front of the house, looking out over the mountains and finding it hard to put into words how we felt. we left vermont toome wn and join vicki, such a dear and wonderful person, and all of senator kennedy's family in boston.