homes of thousands, indeed millions of pensioners in the last few days has come the winter fuel allowance do that is and allows that his is paid to everyone over 60. it is one contribution that we can make to help them with the heating bills of the poorest in our society. but it is a contribution made to every pensioner and everyone over 60 in our country. i hope there is not consensus that this is the right thing to do. >> when i was out with the police on a friday night in my area, there were only 14 police on duty in the division out of a total complement of 2380. will the prime minister intervened directly and swiftly to sort out the organizational malaise that nottingham police has become? >> the home secretary told his majesty -- her majesty is

looking into nottingham police at the moment, but i have to say that the whole purpose of neighborhood policing which we have developed over the last two years is to get more police on the street. so that you need to invest in policing and you need the concept that placer of the neighborhood, and that is exactly what we are doing. >> mr. holloway? >> thank you, mr. speaker here to does the prime minister agree with ben bernanke, his decision to strip the bank of england civilizing role led to i quote a destructive run and a major problem of the british economy? >> no, mr. speaker. i think anybody can look at the global recession knows that it started -- does that start with the problems of the banking system actually an america. that spread right across the world. and our system is the right way to deal with these problems.

because it brings the bank of england the financial services authority and the treasury together to deal with these issues. i noticed that the leader of the opposition change the policy of the shadow chancellor about the future of the banking system only yesterday that i noticed he was also talking yesterday about flatter taxes that he was going to introduce. flatter taxes mean less tax paid by the very wealthy but i think for the conservatives come to give his lectures on economic policy, they should go back to the drawing board at. >> will my right honorable friend give the public a guarantee that he will never let the ban on hunting dog? >> mr. speaker, i'm surprised that one political party wants to fight the next election on withdrawing the ban on fox hunting. .com is the only job creation policy to create a quango to run foxhunting. i believe they're making a terrible mistake and they will pay for it at the election. >> order. >> from london you have been watching prime minister's

question time on the british house of commons. aired live every wednesday while parliament is in session and 7 a.m. eastern. you can see this again sunday night at 9 p.m. eastern and pacific on c-span. for more information go to c-span.org. at the top of the homepage click on c-span series. for prime minister's questions. british barman and legislatures around the world. you can also watch recent video, including programs dealing with other international issues. >> to promote consumer savings. a group of financial analysts examine the marketing and pricing of credit at this forum hosted by the consumer federation of america. this is just under an hour. >> we're going to get started now. and begin the session of a

conference. i ms. stephenson executive director of the consumer federation of america and i will moderate and progressive in a discussion of the role of banks and credit unions in promoting consumer savings. now, as are all aware most of our conference has focused mainly on clyde and the issues. but it is really not enough as i think we're all aware to protect borrowers and debtors. all household at the same time they're managing credit and debt must build wealth. nudges ahead adequate resource for retirement, but also so that they have adequate savings to afford a home or an education. that even adequate funds to pay for everyday emergencies. the unexpected car repaired, the

dental treatment, or even a speeding ticket. unfortunately, a significant percentage of the population is just not saving adequately. according to the federal reserve board's latest survey of consumer finances, to this of all american households have less than $7000 in gross financial assets. and that includes retirement savings and contributory programs. low and moderate income households are particularly at risk. if you look just at the bottom two income quintiles, 40 percent of all households, only to fits of this group even has a savings account. and most of those who have it a savings account has bounces that are well under $1000. of course the key reason for this is that many households save little is that they have low incomes.

but much research and the expense of credit counselors tells us that nearly all households who are not in a severe financial crisis can afford to say something, even if it is only five or $10 a month. research and our experience in america also informs us that almost all households would really like to save. and a large majority of households, 93% according to the fdic data they released earlier this week, do business with a bank or credit union so that they do have access to savings options. but until recently, a significant barrier to saving was the way that savings accounts were structured. with relatively high balances to open an account and avoid monthly fees. typically $300, sometimes a lot higher.

receiving monthly teller deposits and amazing monthly statements preceded their yields on investing funds that were less than, say, $300. but not a savings marketplace has started to change in a way that can benefit, in my view, both banks and their lower income customers. the key here is automatic savings made possible by automatic funds transferred from paychecks or checking to savings. this is a significantly reduced bangkok to the point where i'm at autosave's account, offered by many banks and credit unions, and account can be open for as little as 25 or $50, and maintained without fees as long as there are automatic monthly transfer -- transfers that are typically 25 or $50, but

sometimes even lower than $25. moreover, consumers are increasingly utilizing this option after only fragment carry data that we did survey consumers representative sample two years ago. one third of those who said that they maintained a separate emergency savings account, and that was 40 percent of all households. that doesn't necessary mean that 40 percent of households have an emergency savings account. you just have adequate savings in other accounts. but once are those who said they maintain separate emergency and savings accounts, tended to be lower income households, said they fed this account with automatic transfers. but this percentage of all households is still relatively low, and i think this largely reflects the fact that this automatic savings is not a marketing priorty at most banks

or credit unions. in the past two or three years ago, this has started to change. bank of america, wamu and walk loaded the boat and aggressively marketed spending tens of of dollars annually on a mac savings products that they sold to millions of customers. and while these products were less than perfect in my view, they all reported debit card purchases and only did not permit the chelation of substantial savings. at least walkover his way to save accounts allowed automatic checking as a high interest rate and those as well as being able to cover checking overdress. and in the same period, manes credit union such as navy federal credit union develop innovative and attractive savings products like navy's income lcd called the easy start cd. perhaps even more effective,

however, would be for institutions to try to persuade an incident low checking customers to save. and by many discussions with the savings leaders at banks and credit unions, i have learned that they are starting to understand the full benefits of automatic savings. overtime, the banks and credit unions substantially increased in their low-cost capital because they have greater customer retention, and greater customer capacity to afford other products, like mortgage credit or iras. i have also learned, however, that this understanding is not yet widely shared by the top management of these institutions. but i do think that given the collapse of credit markets, there are opportunities to convince them. after all, in the future, a customer without savings will simply not be able to purchase a mortgage loan, or an ira.

in this session, we will focus attention on banks and consumer attitudes toward automatic savings, innovative bank initiatives to promote this automatic savings, and wish to create what i call a virtuous cycle of consumer banking that in the long run benefits both financial institutions and their customers. and i am very fortunate to have two financial services leaders who have engaged in this issue and develop innovative initiatives. the first panelist is cutler dawson is president and ceo of navy federal credit union, the world's largest credit union. cotler is a graduate of the naval academy, and it is 35 years naval career, he him on other things come into the enterprise battle group and was commander of the second fleet striking fleet atlantic, running navy federal credit in you must seem like a piece of cake compared to running battle

groups. and he left the navy with the rank of vice admiralty or now he is at a credit union, he is a member of the president's advisory council on financial literacy. serves on the board of the national association of federal credit unions, and i need to disclose this. he also serves on our board, consumer federation of america, but i will reassure you, aaron, that he will cede no special credit in the session. erin constantine is a senior vice president of the consumer and small business because the group at wells fargo. where she is responsible for all products and marketing for consumer mass marketing, market savings accounts as well as special segments. she's been at wells fargo for 14 years. before then she was an examiner for the federal home loan bank of san francisco, and before that she earned an mba from the university of california at

berkeley. so cutler and erin were very pleased that you both could join us. now, what we're going to do for the remainder of the session is what going to try to have a conversation that you participate in. i have a few questions, which i'm going to put out there, but we will go into this conversation where the panelist what you would essentially like it to go. but i thought we would start by asking them for their view, their perception about the whole industry. credit union industry, the banking industry and how basically most banks and credit unions regard savings accounts. how they have regarded savings accounts and include a discussion today really market these accounts thursday and if they don't, why not. cutler, would you like to start? >> erin and i made a command decision that i would go first

to let ask you a question first. how many folks are today are mirrors of credit unions? arai. for my credit union i have paperwork you can join the military city you can become a member if you are not. [laughter] >> i'm serious. to steve's question, credit unions are somewhat unique, so for the 76ers navy federal has been in existence, savings are actually essential to everything that is done at the credit union. what i mean by that is by nature of their makeup, there is no other way for a credit union to raise capital to run the business of the credit union. so if you don't get savings, you can't make loans. so in today's world also, in our credit union and most credit unions, when you join, you have

to have a savings account to join here in our case, the threshold is $5. and then you can get a checking account. so to your question, steve, we have not changed. we do it the same, and we do everything we can to promote savings. to be able to do the other things that we want to do with our members as well. >> good morning. i would echo a lot of cutler, to say that gathering deposits and core to our business but it is something we also do so that we can loan out money. and that has largely not changed in today's environment. i would say that i think a silver lining perhaps of the crisis that we're in right now is a greater sort of understanding and appreciation on the part of many consumers, that they should be saving more. and a desire to save more. and i think that understanding

in the designer is also going to filter over into what banks and credit unions do in terms of marketing savings and approaching it and offering innovative products and services to meet those needs. >> okay. but until relatively recently, very few banks and credit unions were really spending much time and resources of to market their savings accounts. especially their basic savings accounts. so why was that the case? >> i would say differently than a credit union that we at wells fargo, we concentrate more on the checking account and then bundling that savings account with a checking as opposed to starting with the savings that i do think that there has been a large focus on, you know, larger savings accounts. certainly there are many products and services for self savers as i call them, those people that have money to save, cds, iras and whatnot cancer to serve those needs. the small saving, i agree with

your comment at the beginning, steve. that there were barriers to servicing those accounts in the past. you know, mailing out statements, opening accounts, maintaining them. a lot of the technology that we have now has brought those costs and services that are certainly we have online statement, things like that epic and the focus has really changed at least at wells fargo to bundle the savings account with a checking account. >> i think you have a fair observation. let him make a comment about what we do and what may be others do. to erin is point we try to make every uncultivated to open a savings account it would also try to make it very uncompensated to maintain it with no fees for checking. in fact, we paid interest on all

are checking right now that it is not much but we pay. we make it easy and convenient to do transfers. with no charges. but now to steve's point, which is a good one. i would say we probably have not advertised as was wished or marketed the need to have an emergency fund to pay when times are tougher. and we are shortly taking a harder look at that now as we go forward, that we need to increase our effort there. i can't help but to jump in and though. i love steve and i would like to wrestle with them sometimes. he doesn't know this one is coming, but some of the savings programs that i've seen from institutions like bankamerica and some others, they round up the change for savings. i don't think those are savings plans. they are gimmicks to get consumers to spend more money on

their debit or debit cards. and that's why they exist. so we don't have a round up to change. and i just throw that out, if anyone else has a thought on the. >> you are in good company because consumer reports did a very critical article on those two. erin, it was undercount but it was wachovia. you inherited that you have a perspective on that? >> surprisingly, i do. [laughter] >> i think some of the keys to programs like bfh keep the change and traneighteen way to save is to encourage a type of savings. not everyone stays the same way. some customers again are self savers. a lot of customers have trouble savings. i think starting a savings program much like starting an exercise program, a lot of us feel like we should exercise

more, but have trouble getting started. really at the end of the day if you're going to start an exercise program, that doesn't matter whether exercise in the morning and evening or whether you bike or jog or what not. what matters is that you find something that works for you and then you stick with it. and to make it part of your routine and part of their habit. so i think that the programs like this can help encourage some customers to start saving. so those that have had trouble savings in the past, and offer a unique way to do that. so as an example, i would say as we have been looking at ways to save through the wachovia acquisition, and looking at how we can introduce it through wells fargo and throughout our footprint, we are making some changes to it, including offering more ways to save including over-the-counter deposits. but we did a lot of customer research of customers who have the program. and one of the things that really stuck out in my mind is when we did the focus groups, we asked them what they like about

a. one lady said i am saving just by living my life. that really stuck out to me because what she emphasize what she didn't have to change your behavior at all. but she felt she was doing something good for herself. and when she bought a 5-dollar lunch, it was actually a six-hour lunch and one of those dollars would go into her savings account. so a bit of a gimmick. i don't think that i can argue that point, but i do think that some of these programs can be very key and encouraging customers who have been saved before to find a new and different way that they can actually build up their savings. >> now the reason that we invited cutler and erin, other than leaders of thousands of other financial institutions, because actually they are leaders in their communities in terms of promoting savings. and so i would ask each of them to explain very concretely what you do to encourage, you know, your customers to save money. especially low and moderate

income to middle income customers who don't have much discretionary income. >> very similar to cutler, we have tried to tie very close to our checking and are savings programs there aren't core is essentially a bundle of accounts and services. starts with a checking account and the passenger of them also include savings account. one of the things that's very important is encouraging that savings, getting someone started, and also offering things for free. so our checking packages on both a checking out and a savings account when the customer sets up an automatic savings plan. those automatic savings plans can range from ugly or a way to save. we've also introduced a daily savings program. so we heard from some customers that $25 a month on the one time

was in fact too much for them to save. and so we went out and created -- it is in pilot program right now. 1 dollar a day which is a business they. is up in 23, $25 a month. so very similar to 25 but they feel that that's much for affordable for them to do just 1 dollar every day. so i think that in terms of especially small savers, giving them options to save, but also helping to explain to them the benefit that they can get by savings. and specifically with the checking packages, waving those monthly service fees is a reason to start the program and maintain a. and that we find that many customers really see the value in it and continue to save, even after they have met other ways to waive those accounts. >> and in the several states, you are offering really an enhanced kind of way to save account with relatively high

interest and bonus. that's really targeted at low to moderate income because there's a cap. could you talk about that? >> we have spent a lot of this year looking at indie signing it for the new way to say that if you're not familiar with the wachovia version. it pays 5%, and the basic way to get money into the account is every time you usually debit card, a bill pay or an ach would transfer a dollar. so there's limited ways to get money into that account. it also offers a monthly service -- excusing out a monthly automatic transfer. but most customers are using that save as you go feature. what we let that as we develop a new way to save is that we would really like to allow customers to say whatever they can add the other they can. and so we're introducing a new way to save programs that allows

over-the-counter deposits, atm deposits, online transfers. but certainly if you are allowing all of that money to come into the program, you also need to cap it so we don't have those hundred thousand dollars bose cd customers putting money in. said if you save automatically, you participate in a program and will pay 3 percent on the first $500 in the account. and then we'll also provide an annual bonus of up to $150 on the money that you have saved automatically. so again, it is really not focused as those selfsame is at the jumbo cd customers. is focused at the small savers and those people are just starting out. so we are excited about it that we introduced in two of our wells fargo legacy market. minnesota and washington. and then we've also converted colorado from wachovia to wells fargo in november, and it is so available to. will be introducing it as we convert all the other markets. >> just finally, how have your

customers responded to this? >> very well. we had a lot of existing customers who are moving into the account. very excited about it. 3 percent in today's market may not be historically high rates. pretty exciting for a lot of customers. certainly sales have been strong so far. what i see dealing with, you know, internal folks is they can't wait to get a. most of the regions are anxious to have it and offer to the customer. >> and use it to to continue to office in the future? >> yes. introduce it across the legacy wells fargo footprint, and in as the wachovia market convert will be for the existing way to save into the new way to save. >> asked the same question to cutler and then we'll give you a chance to ask questions. >> i have covered some of the things we do. it we have about 40 percent of those members are aged 18 to 34. in the credit union space, the

average age of a credit union member is 49, and it would be in the mid '50s. we encourage savings are easy star certificate, and just like erin, it is a higher interest-rate. it is very attractive to young starters. and we also had easy start certificates where they can put in a minimal of 25 to $50 an criminally active as they say. what i also mentioned the fact that savings account comes first, and then with a checking there is no fees and interest paid on the checking. that's the way we incense. and before i turn it back tuesday, i can't help to pass the advertisement for those of you who will see me about the military, i would like to get a tudo to the department of defense. they've got a great savings program going right now. for our young women, men and women that are employed, a lot

of times in harm's way, they can put up to $10000 while they are deployed that will pay them 10 percent per annum on their savings. a great way to incent our young folks to save. >> a few things i've learned is that marketing effectively maybe a lot more important than financial incentives. and particularly, marketing when a person is in the branch. and erin talk about that but i know you do some of that to. rosetta, you're savers program. how do you encourage people, new members for example, or existing members to open up a savings account or purchase an easy start certificate? >> we start that when we first see them. in the branch, and again i remind you that to become a member you have to start a savings account. and then each branch is kind of

a counselor to encourage that. also, we have this wonderful gift that we have. where the on-based credit union in great lakes, and about 90 percent of every young sailor that joins the navy, joins our credit union. and we have a team of their update folks that are just dedicated to giving them presentations about weaving their way through the financial world that they're going to happen. and i get some of the things that we do for them up there that made i would talk about later. is a responsibility touch that we make it on the phone or in person right away. >> do any of you have questions about what they have just said, about their accounts? let me move on. now, moving away from that institution and looking at the entire industry.

how do you think savings accounts can be made more attractive to low and moderate income households? what are the one or two most important things that banks and credit unions can do? erin? . . the change. that can be an exception. in general, bread and butter savings are not leaving the news. one thing i think that is important is to have a conversation with the customer. at wells barbara and so one of the things to do is have that conversation with a

customer. there is a profiling process that happens when they come to open an account discussing financial need and goals. many customers would like to be saving more but they don't feel they have that $500 to start a program and with those fees. especially for low and moderate income customers explaining that you don't have to have a lot of money to start a savings program and you don't -- not just put the money in and leave it and you will get rich with the interest, especially in today's market, having the automatic savings every month whether it is weekly or daily or monthly or whatever they can do to put a little bit aside so they have the emergency fund set up.

>> your perspective? >> well -- this is going to go a little bit to the dark side answer here. as we look ahead, one of the things i think about is unintended consequences. all of the events on capitol hill right now, all the legislation that is unfolding. you have two sides of the equation. you have savers and borrowers. credit union, they have to be. so there is some real concern about, with me, losses in the future and what that will drive financial institutions to do. some unintended consequences there. some of it may be legitimate. some may be a smokescreen to generate more fees. we have to watch that pretty

closely. ultimately, it is going to be competition for those savings. in other words, what you can do for folks. if you have a solid program like erin constantine described, you can maintain that, people will come to you but if you have to fall off of those out of either necessity or under the smoke screen, we could have some -- >> that is what banks and credit unions could do. what could the people with non-profit organizations do to convince banks and credit unions to take savings more seriously, market and improve their savings products? >> i will take that. that is a great question. it is two parts.

you have already identified folks in here that do that that people need to save. i am on the president's financial advisory council and what we would say about financial literacy or what i would say is it is the target rich environment. there are as lots of work that needs to be done. the more you can educate folks that they need to save and have that the emergency fund, maybe have some opinions on where the best place for them to save is, you will have to do a little work on that side of the equation to see if they have an institution with the best savings interests at heart. there are two parts of that. then i have to have the programs you can come to and have an easy start certificate where they can start their savings at a small level.

>> it surprises me that banks and credit unions would not want to have savings programs and to market those. poor business model to gathered deposits. i think that the current situation will end up, again, tightening up the situation a little bit so that people can look at the institutions that are offering new and diverse ways to save and to -- the programs that work for them. >> before opening this up to all of you i would like to address one other issue and this is a tough one that those of us working on savings have been grappling with for several years and that is how do we affectively persuade young people to save? our experience in america

suggests this is especially difficult because most young people don't have a checking account from which automatic savings transfers could be made and the experience of the typical bank debt rolls out a savings program offering a premium is to have a lot of takeout and the $25 sit in an account which is costly to the bank or credit union and then the banks hours on youth savings promotion. is there a magic bullet here? are there some things that can be done to create a type of account or mechanisms to facilitate this automatic saving for young people? >> to get to your point, most kids, teenagers don't have the income themselves and checking account to do the automatic

savings. what we have found to be effective is to offer youth savings programs and involve the parents and grandparents in that program so that there is some education not only for the kids about the importance of saving but to their parents and their parents can make the automatic savings transfers for their child and build it up. we have a current program called junior agent savor club. we introduced earlier this year, it replaced an older program called stagecoach kids. we love our stagecoach but surprisingly it wasn't resonating with the 10 year-old crowd. we redesigned it and it is about education, it has little quizes and a lot of information and little tools and things they can, in and what not about savings goals. what are you saving for?

it is a skateboard or an ipod or whatever and tracking their progress towards the saving goal in hopes of showing them when you want something you have to save for it for a while but eventually you reach that goal when you are able to see the payoff. there are prizes that they can earn from wells fargo but the focus of it is helping kids understand the value of savings and how they get to their goal. programs like that can help. certainly involving the parents and grandparents and other family members into those savings programs is always a good idea. >> that is relatively new. >> launched this year. it has been around for a while. >> evidence of its popularity. >> thank you for asking. there's no official enrollment. when they save they can redeem for surprises. i don't know exact enrollment but what i can tell you is we

had to go back several times for the enrollment kits we keep running out. my point and my view as a product manager is that as always good news. is in use and consumers are asking for it. >> we don't have the stagecoach but we have sammy the sea otter. we have been thinking about that just like wells fargo and stagecoach. now i will get serious. what is the right age when they are ready to receive the information about savings and what they should be about? we also have been thinking about how do we give it to them in their language and in the way that they receive information? a couple months ago we were having a discussion about an application for mobile banking for iphone.

that very afternoon we got an e-mail from my 23-year-old son who is in the navy and says you really ought to think about and iphone application for navy federal. this is the way they communicate. this is the way they do things. how can we encourage them to say to their language, we have a campus checking for college students, they don't write checks anymore. how do we encourage them to use that and put money in their account? it is a daunting question. you that work yourselves have the same question. how do you reach the people you want to reach? we are faced with the same

issues. >> your questions or comments? [inaudible question] >> now we got it. i am dan mccready with consumer corporation. hi have been a member of the federal credit union for a long time. a $32 a week textile worker from north carolina opened her first cookie account in the 1930s. i mention that because you

literally hold my inheritance and my parents's long-term health care in their hands. i follow these programs with interest. the question is let's start with admiral dawson. how about getting those folks through the front door initially? i am familiar with how you received those folks who are coming through training at great lakes. how many of the marseille% how many are not? how do you encourage them to take that and also for the on bass activity in grammar school. how can you encourage savings at that young age to those who are not savers or speak the english language or read or write. how do you get them through the first threshold that says yes?

the language difficulty, how do you bridge that gap? >> great question. let me talk to great lakes first. we have the best of all worlds in great lakes. we have a captive audience. there are 30,000 of those young men and women who go through a year. we set them up for the savings account and checking. we talked about this. this is off from your question. we also give them a line of credit. that is to keep them -- that is our solution to keep them away from the payday lenders. they have a $500 line of credit. if they draw from that it pays off on their next pay. they have to have direct deposit. we have had remarkable success.

it has been running for two years and they have managed it well. but they don't make a lot of money in boot camp. now we are going to grow into where they already have a savings account and hopefully we can get them to that point. it is education. but here is our challenge. the navy only gives us so much time to talk to them. because of the demands they have on their training. it is a constant effort. as we talked about in the branches, we encourage that and by evolution, i think we are going to have to have more of a conversation that you are going to have to be a savor before you can become a borrower. i see that taking place right now. >> i would address the in

language challenges as well. i think it is necessary to have more information as well as a variety of languages. it is something we try to do where there is on-line material, some banks have gone much further than wells fargo has in terms of offering on-line banking in different languages. it is something we would all like to do. there is big cost to be able to offer that. we do concentrate quite a bit on offering upfront material, education material and language. the junior agent savor club has the entire line of the parent information in spanish. we just introduced spanish language as a positive statement. you can have english or spanish online or in paper.

the language, especially educational material as well as disclosures, having that information available will definitely help. >> two questions and the first one is mainly for erin constantine although it will apply to cutler dawson too in terms of military families. are you working with employers and labor unions to encourage direct deposit? the second question is, there is an interesting public polythene in new zealand where employers are actually legally required to deposit employees's pay into a financial accounts. employees have to opt out if they wish to receive a check instead. what do you think of that policy? do you think that is something that will be helpful in the u. s? >> we love direct deposit.

it is great. its it certainly lower-cost and more convenient for customers to have that rather than having to go and deposit the check at the bank every payday. they get their money faster. there are no holds on the direct deposit fund. we are all about direct deposit. we do have a number of programs directly with employers, special programs for employees, businesses who do business with the bank where we are reach to them. we offer a lot of our products with monthly service fees with direct deposit. encouraging direct deposit is something that we are always interested in doing. your question about requiring it, from our first active that would be great. there is a different aspect of that in terms of the employer.

there are ways for smaller employers to do on-line pay. we have our small business products allowing a very small business to do online a essentially. requiring it, for all businesses, probably not ready to go there. >> you just made my day. you gave me a great idea i will take back and see if it works. we love direct deposit. it is the glue. in some cases, we offer loan discounts if you have direct deposit. i am going to ask my folks why can't we offer a program that if you have a savings account in direct deposit with as you get a bump on your savings account, way to encourage that. that would be a better tool to due that easy start certificate. so thanks. i am going to take that back. will that work for you?

>> great to see you all again. quick observation and a question. the observation on the intergenerational use savings, reminded me of a virtual pass book that might turn on some grandparents to drop some money in so they can use. the question about emergency savings, primary research work on the importance of having an emergency fund. if you tried any marketing to label an account as an emergency fund especially during this time of economic turmoil? >> that is another good idea. we try to facilitate. if you have direct deposit with as you can split it into additional account for emergency fund if that is what you want to set and it is easy and no cost to do that.

it could probably stand some marketing as a reminder. we don't do that right now and we probably should. >> time for three more questions. there are three people with questions. >> one of the problems we have with that is most people don't think that they are going to need it. we have an on-line savings tool called my savings plan and it allows you to set a goal for your savings account and you can also name it. whether it is a vacation a caldor new car account or whatever. they're labeled emergency savings. part of the challenge is people think i won't need that until they actually do. not very many people go into that but they use their savings they have accumulated for the emergency. >> i am rebecca with the center for responsible lending. it is encouraging to hear about these innovative ideas to hear

consumers save. a lot of the customers these savings are geared toward lower or moderate income customers who may be first time savers are a lot of the same customers who are hit hard by high costs, overdraft programs or direct deposit cash which is very expensive short-term loans like a payday loan that number of national bank offer including wells, i wonder if you could comment on whether it is a concern that the high cost credit products which effectively make these customers borrowers might undermine some of the effort to help those consumers save. >> i would say that our primary goal would to have customers the sabers first and borrowers second. what we are really hoping to do is encourage them to start a savings program with the money they have and putting a little aside so that they don't get into the situation where they need to have short-term

borrowing needs. really, ideally what we are trying to do is make them savers and not bar words but that starts with getting them to save in the first place. >> as you know, credit unions are more paternal and have an 18% interest rate cap. we settled for example, we have chosen not to offer courtesy pay or balance protection because we don't think it is the right thing to do for folks. we have taken some very public stands against lending. >> have you developed programs for reenlistment bonuseses? education on how to save through the career counselors?

you have? >> we haven't done enough. what he is talking about is when someone reenlists in the navy or the services depending on what their specialty is, they get a big bonus. what do they do with that? if we can encourage them to save it we get a home run. we don't want them to go out and buy a new truck with that. i will say to you the ultimate -- i can't pass up this opportunity. the ultimate savings program for every one of you in this room is to have one of your children go to one of the service gaps because it is totally free. they get paid when they are there and you can round up the change you would have spent in college for your kids in those savings programs.

>> senator from arizona. in this whole discussion, we are doing it in the middle and not at the beginning. i remember growing up even during the depression, we had a savings card. you put your nickels or dimes in and you took the card, the savings bank, put it into the bank and get your savings and everything else, march of dimes during the depression, the don imus to collect or savings bonds and savings stamps, get kids threw it at 6, 7, 8, and 9 and you have savers in 20

40, and 50. >> i am going to stand here. >> i would like to say because if anybody knows here, in 1999 iowa was the woman was was the . the reason was i was against direct deposit. it was not good for my community because we could not borrow. i could not see at that time black people and spanish people putting their money in the bank which would not loan us any credit.

racial discrimination is very much in the banking field. therefore, i am deeply concerned to see my money that i can't borrow that goes to other communities to build them up in our community and i will say look at that right now in housing. i related it, i was given recognition in 1991 and that was the reason. until racism on every level in our society is knocked out, some people will feel -- i am 90 years old. probably in the next 90 years it will change. that is all. i didn't want you to run because i know you feel the same way.

>> we have run out of time. please join me in thanking cutler dawson and erin constantine. [applause] that ends not only the session but also the conference. thank you for your participation. safe travels home. [applause] >> house republicans on the science of linking human activities to global warming and their opposition to climate change talks in denmark. this is about 35 minutes. >> thank you for joining us. i served as health republican chairman and my duties this year have included as chairman of the american energy solutions group that was appointed by leader john maynard to develop

strategies for countering democrat plans for a national energy tax and developing as we did a republican alternative in the form of the american energy act. i am gathered here today with colleagues who serve not only on key communities in leadership positions but also all of those present served as active leaders on the american energy solutions group on our project and we meet under various auspices today. we are gathered today at the outset of the copenhagen conference on climate change to deliver a very simple message. that is in the worst recession in 26 years, in the midst of an academic scandal and questionable science revealed in climategate and in the absence of a national consensus about policies that would bear upon

the category known as climate change, we gather here to say mr. president, don't make promises in copenhagen that we can't keep. those gathered here today believe the president should refrain from engaging in a treaty negotiation in copenhagen or making commitments at copenhagen in the interest of the american people against the backdrop of this widening scandal known as climategate and the absence of a national consensus. we know the administration is doing its level best to strengthen the president's hand as he goes to copenhagen. yesterday's decision by the epa was clearly a rather naked attempt at engaging in international public relations on the backs of the american people. we really believe in this group

that it is imperative that the president here from the representatives of this country, especially the leaders that are gathered here today to say to the president of the united states that it is inappropriate to negotiate a treaty before we have declared war. on climate change. you do have in front of you correspondence. those gathered here and all the republican leadership have signed that deliver that message to the president on friday and that is the extent of our message today. with that i will recognize several key members of our solutions group and ranking members of our key committees. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i am looking forward to going to copenhagen in the same way that someone who has won a free vacation look forward to going to the sales pitch that they are going to get about why they need to buy a time share. we have seen this administration

and the u. n come out and they are already backpedaling and lowering the expectations for what they think is going to be achieved by going to copenhagen. i think that by the time our delegation gets there next week you will see them beginning to develop the, quote, post mortem and say republicans are the party of no. i will highlight with all of you that we are the party of know. there are several things we would like the american people to know about what is taking place around cap and trade, what has taken place with climategate at, what has transpired with the e-mail chain and how much of this legislation would cost if indeed they were to push this forward and force it on the

american people. we do know that there is a way to block the epa from complementing cap and trade, 391, which is the legislation i have that would expressly prohibit the epa from moving forward with implementing the carbon emissions regulation without coming to congress. we do have that bill filed. we have co-sponsors on it. 98 co-sponsors, we have a discharge petition filed and we are looking forward to making our trip to copenhagen. >> i am the ranking member of the select committee on energy independence on global warming and i bring an institutional

knowledge perspective to this debate since i have been a veteran of the climate change wars ever since newt gingrich appointed me head of the congressional delegation that went to kyoto 12 years ago. america lost a lot of credibility when then vice president al gore promised the international community something that he knew could never be passed by the congress of the united states. i would hope that president obama will not repeat al gore's mistake when he goes to copenhagen at the end of next week. i will be going to copenhagen as well and i would hope that he would lower the rhetoric a bit because the epa cannot and should not do something that has been considered by congress and has not been passed by congress. i think that the announcement

yesterday by the epa was more of a press release to be read outside the united states. i would hope that our international partners and even our adversaries overseas would not believe everything that comes from a political press release because political press release this is. secondly, the climategate scandal is expanding. there have been two professors who have been placed on administrative leave as a result of this. the un should take it upon itself to step backwards and not make any concrete recommendations until we get to the bottom of the climategate scandal and why the professor's use the mails ended up being put up on the internet said what they said. this could be a conspiracy basically to shutout any

contrary scientific opinion. as the chairman of the science committee from 1997 to 2001, one of the things i vigorously protected was extensive peer review of science that was funded by the government. and peer review means debate the issue, the people who don't take the politically correct position during the peer review are not punished by being ostracized, denied publication of their views. the climategate scandal indicates this is going on. i call it scientific fascism. we should not be making decisions that will cost the american ratepayer billions or trillions of dollars in natural

gas bills. the un should throw the red flag and call it time out. if it takes a year or two to get to the bottom of the climate gate scandal, so be it. they relied on these scientists justifiably in my opinion. it is time for us to get real scientific information which has been fairly and vigorously peer reviewed rather than have the united nations and its scientific agencies end up being a huge propaganda organ for a preconceived notion. >> i am a warmer, fuzzier texas version of sensenbrenner. yesterday i bought a new car -- a new used car. if the climate change bill passed the house with a lot in

the year 2015 i would have gone out and bought a new 560. and i hopped on a plane to fly to washington d.c. last night. if we fast-forward to 2015 we have this 85% reduction, i would not have been able to get on the airplane because it uses fossil fuels and we wouldn't be allowed to burn fossil fuels. i would have gotten on an all electric train. i guess powered by electricity generated by wind or nuclear power and it would have taken me three or four days to get to washington. next week i will be going to copenhagen as part of the official delegation, i am honored to be part of that delegation but i will not be one of the sick offense that says climate change is the biggest

problem facing the world and we need to do all these draconian things that cost jobs. keep in mind that the u.s. economy is larger than the next eight largest economies in the world combined. if copenhagen was the culmination of the environmental nirvana and we were signing this treaty that was binding on the united states and president obama was to sign that treaty we would be putting our economy in a straitjacket that would cost millions of jobs 3-year every year for the next 20 to 30 years. luckily that is not going to happen. it is my opinion, it is just an opinion, that the environmental radicals have overplayed their hand. the u.s. public to some extent the world public, is very tolerant and very trusting. but to put it in the best

possible light, they have been misled, they have been manipulated, they have been fed data that was very self-serving. and the truth is beginning to come out. the truth is the truth. the facts are the facts. this whole theory of man-made global warming is just that. it is a theory. is not a fact. the climatologists that believe it should be a fact have spent the last 20 years trying to prove that it is a fact and they can't do it so they have had to resort to larger and larger deceptions and we are beginning to uncover them. the finding made by epa will not stand. is not based on the proper protocol, that you are supposed to use. is not based on hard science. there is a suppressed report we have been able to get a copy of.

mr. sensenbrenner and internal epa report shows that it is too early to issue a public health in danger and finding. if the epa tries to use that in danger and finding through the clean air act, it is going to be the political waterloo in my opinion of the democratic party in the united states. i was here when we passed the clean air act amendments in the united states. we had five specific criteria pollutants, very specific public health levels that we want to protect public health against, co2 is not one of those. it is odorless, colorless, it is not a public harm to health in the classic sense.

like mercury or lead or sulfur dioxide. if the epa tries to implement the strictest interpretation of the clean air act for co2 you are going to be regulating truck stops. you're going to be regulating apartment complexes. you are going to be regulating potentially any football game in america that has 25,000 people in attendance. that is not what the clean air act was about. we are here under mr. pence's leadership to put up a cautionary yellow light. let's go to copenhagen, let's continue to support sound scientific research that is balanced, let's continue to do cost-benefit analysis. let's continue to do programs that mitigate environmental damage when we know we can mitigated but let's not take the u.s. economy off the cliff since we are the driving force in the

world economy today. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i look forward to going to copenhagen too but i look forward to it because it is in fact an important opportunity to talk about climategate, to talk about the question of whether we proceed forward with data which is now legitimately in doubt. this debate is going on in great britain, it is going on throughout europe because they are deeply concerned that it makes a huge difference in the solution that you pick based on the fact that underlie the problem. even if you accept that global warming is man-made, a small difference in measurements would be a huge difference in how soon the threat would come and what our reaction would be. you gave me that wonderful look i will give you a wonderful answer that goes to your question. it does. jake will last another one for you. if you think about it.

if in fact you have a 20% or 30% lower figure of man's impacts over and above nature's impact you could be talking about 150 or 500 years before we reach a terrible point verses a matter of a couple years. the difference in the solution as i like to say, $1 trillion is too important to waste. washington. we are talking trillion of dollars will impact the economy in jobs and in many of cap and tax if we do it today. if on the other hand we take those dollars and allocate them towards clean, long-term renewable fuels, for research that we have some time for, toward transitions that make sense without losing a single american jobs or endangering our position or economic position in the world, that same trillion dollars could lead us in a matter of a couple decades into

an incredibly energy self-sufficient world. on the other hand, give it to brazil to grow offsets. if you give it to the various strategies that go with cap and tax, we have very little except very little. that is what this is all about. if people ask why we are calling it climategate, i was a teenager in the 1972 elections when there was a break-in at the watergate complex. nothing happened until somebody illegally went to the press and started being a whistle-blower. the famous deep throat that we now know was the number 2 at the fbi. we didn't know who deep throat was for a generation but what we did know was the information delivered showed that there had been a terrible crime committed for which the 1972 elections turned into the first resignation of a president. it was serious because something serious had happened. playing with the science, even if global warming is a reality,

even if it has to be dealt with by reducing our carbon emissions, the difference of a small percentage could turn into 100 years to make the difference and an opportunity for a world to transition in a positive way. i am not here to tell you that i am a good enough scientists or even a scientist, spent a career looking at this science. what i am here to say is my committee which deals with waste, fraud and abuse, fraud being the one we are dealing with, wants the facts so that we don't waste $1 trillion and more and the rest of the world's resources if we can direct the same resources in a better way. copenhagen for us is an opportunity to talk in terms of what is the best way to reallocate these resources? is it in effect an immediate shutdown in the carbon output of one particular item, co2, or should we be looking at

continuing to work at cleaner water and cleaner air environment and finding ways to wean ourselves sooner and not later off of fossil fuels. that is the reason we are going to be going there and we are going there with open minds because we believe the science is not settled, at least as to the speed and that is an opt in doubt that you should be asking that question just as the press made the break in at the watergate go from being a small scandal to changing the outcome for a generation of how we think about what is right and wrong in politics and what is right and wrong in science is that you tell the truth, you reach your conclusion and let pires review your underlying facts and see what their conclusions are. we have all been denied that and until we get that we should not be committing the jobs that america will disappear if we make the wrong decision. we look forward to your questions. >> starting with the kinder,

gentler -- the real question is -- [inaudible] -- i seem to remember something that you can't put in a false product. are you looking at any of this stuff? >> we are in the process of writing letters to a number of agencies to ask that question. to me it shows the intensity of nontransparency that they would say they don't have to comply with the freedom of information request when as you point out these are the results of government grants. it should be open. in the true scientific method, you want your theory, you want that to be tested.

you put it out and say here is what i think. prove me wrong. is the republican party the best party? we have had consensus in the republican party. we have a good consensus that the republican party but if i went and asked nancy pelosi, there is a different opinion. what these climatologists have done, they talk to themselves and created their own little cartel. they peer review their own science and say ask questions. the world is now beginning to question and rightfully that we should. >> let me say the judiciary committee approved, the house passed the small claims act that made it easier for a whistle-blower to have a private cause of action in court when the government has been defrauded. they already can do it.

that should be looked into. i believe the attorney general should get involved in this. if this legislation passes it does not change the civil or criminal penalties for doing it but makes it easier for a whistle-blowers to go into court to try to get some money back for the government. both of these avenues ought to be explored and the senate ought to pass -- that will make it easier to find out what the truth really is. >> the timing of the endangerment is interesting. another copenhagen -- there has been a lot of talk about the potential to influence senate action. what is the reality? what will it influence senate action by industries being

scared of the epa action referring senate legislation? secondly, representative barton says the endangerment would not stand. i wonder what your perceptions are, the legal case -- congressional york in court. >> let me respond. house republicans believe the endangerment finding by the epa and this administration on the very day the copenhagen climate change conference began was a rather naked example of international public relations. we are all familiar with the sort of damocles that an epa

endangerment has hung over the congress and business community. there has been a backdrop of a threat that we need to pass the national energy tax and raise the cost of utilities for every american household through the legislative process or that will be done effectively by executive action. house republicans recognize what you have your is an effort and international public relations. it seems to recognize the fact that the cap and trade legislation has a very uncertain future in the united states senate and this seemed to many of us to be an obvious effort to strengthen the president's hand at copenhagen and on the world stage at the expense of the interests of the american people. with that i will allow --

>> respectfully -- the logic that it could pressure senators and other congressmen into potential for -- >> i don't think there's any question that the threat of an endangerment finding has hung over the legislative process and hung over the business community in this country for months. we have seen largely due to the work of these members and house republicans, we lost the votes on cap and trade but we won the argument with the american people. the american people understand it is a national energy tax that will raise the cost of utilities for every american household and every american business. we recognize that the epa endangerment finding is part of the domestic political equation but timing specific to your question, timing of this announcement at the outset of the copenhagen conference seems

to us to be a fairly transparent effort to strengthen the president's standing on the international stage by creating the impression that even if congress doesn't do it the president will be able to make good on his commitments but we think that is legally questionable. we think it is legally questionable by the epa but the overall message is to say don't make any promises at copenhagen that the american people can't keep. do you want to speak to that? >> very briefly. to have an endangered and finding it is required that you go out and investigate the potential harm and verify that the facts are such that you need to come forward with that in danger when finding. as soon as president obama got least in place, they put an

artificial time line. the group within the epa that was supposed to verify issued a report, they were told pointblank the decision has been made at the white house and we're going to move forward with this in your report is not helpful. is harmful. stopped working on it. i have a copy of that report. i am sure we can provide it to anybody in this room. clearly, just a casual review of this report shows that they had made a predetermined decision to issue the endangerment finding, to heck with what the facts are and this report says that. that one document in a court case is an automatic dismissal again. co2 is odorless, colorless, tasteless. i am creating co2 talking to you when you breathe in and out. is not harmful to public health,

in the traditional sense of the term. you have this very esoteric theory that somehow man-made co2 is causing concentrations of co2 to rise in the atmosphere and that is causing all these crazy things to happen in the climate. the models don't even predict the past. i am not aware of any model in the world that can predict the climate two weeks in advance and we are supposed to change our economy based on that? for all those reasons, i think the endangerment finding is going to be thrown out and if the epa wants to go back and do it the right way and verify the science and make sure, that is a different ball game. but all massachusetts vs. the epa said the epa had to look at co2 and make a determination. it didn't say they had to regulate.

didn't say they had to find that it was an endangered to the public health of the united states. >> how many people are going to copenhagen? what will you be doing and what do you hope to accomplish? >> the decision of how many people are going to copenhagen will be made by nancy pelosi. there are five or six republican members who will be going to copenhagen. i will be leading the republican side of the house delegation. there will be a couple senators. senators are never led by house members. that is part of the territory but -- [inaudible] >> what i think the republicans are hoping to accomplish is number one, basically saying president obama should not make

promises that the american people and their representatives in congress can't keep. and thus avoiding a repeat of what al gore did immediately prior to that. secondly, i think we will be making the point that the un should step back into the climategate controversy is completely resolved so that we know we are legislating and negotiating international treaties based on sound science. finally, the most important point to be made is the united states senate will not ratify any treaty that is not international in application. that means china and india and brazil and the other third world countries are going to have to sign up mandatory greenhouse gas cuffs. maybe not at the same rate that the u.s. and europe and japan,

but up until now the position of those countries has been that there should be a get out of jail free cards and they may slow down their growth rate but they are not asking the same thing of us. that is unfair and makes the treaty and ratify a. if we are talking about something that can't be ratified by responding our time here? >> the woman in the back. >> thank you very much. i think this was a pickup on the point about the epa timing but i was wondering, do you have any solid reason to believe that the epa announcement connected to the evidence being discussed at climategate, the connection or the connection to faulty science, it was based on faulty science? >> let me suggest, we are not suggesting there is a connection

between the epa decision and the present academic scandal known as climategate. many house republicans believe there is a connection between the outset of the copenhagen conference on climate change and this finding by the environmental protection agency. this was a fairly naked attempt to engage in international public relations on the backs of the american people. you can believe in coincidencess or work in washington d.c.. we don't believe this was a coincidence. we don't think it was part and parcel of the larger debate over creating momentum behind moving the cap and trade bill. this was an effort that was largely born of the conclusion that because we are in the worst