like 40 years ago, in developing the negro almanac, which preceded the black book by seven years, 1967, and it was 1000 pages of facts and documents about african-americans. . .

>> and one of the questions i think they wanted to ask was, what was your favorite part of the book? well, my favorite part of the book was all of it because there was so many things that i was interested in and knew about and also had done some research about. so i'm the grandfather, you're the audience, and we'll tell you what we think about what should be preserved for the future. >> well, i think one of the greatest gifts that my father gave is he gave us back our identity, and a lot of us didn't know from the african diaspora that we were even african. and i know there were even a lot of africa people who had heard of the negroes in america, and they didn't realize that they were the africans that had been displaced, that had been disbursed around the world. and one of the greatest things

that my father did is he let us know that we had a history, and he gave us a very proud, rich heritage. and i think had i not had my parents and had i not had this history, i wouldn't, you know, i wouldn't feel proud of myself. i would not have a sense of identity. i wouldn't know what my capabilities are. and so i think what's really important is not only understanding slavery as a part of our history, but the reason that we were enslaved. that we know that there were pyramids, and we know there was timbuktu, and we know there was alexandria, so clearly these people who had no identity, no culture, no nothing had they known all of this, they would not have been able to be, have

been so exploited and trampled asundayer and all those words that we hear. so i think history's extremely important, and i am really honored to be here and definitely commend, you know, this book in celebration and so forth. >> the importance of heritage for us as black people is really deep because i think it's easy to lose the sense of the collective family because those bonds were literally and figuratively broken, and we do things like call each other brother and sister to try to brick it back -- bring it back, but test never all the way back. and when you go back through history like this or when you go to school and you study african-american history, it gives you a connection with the past, it gives you a sense of the importance of us being able to be here and not have to be running all the time or be working all the time the because, you know, we come from a horrific history.

and we have to be aware of our responsibility to take full advantage of the blessings that we have to be able to go to work and try to do something gainful with our lives and not be oppressed all our lives. and, you know, it's just, it just makes me when i think back about slavery and the post-slavery period, it makes me want to take much more seriously my life and my opportunities. and, you know, we don't talk about slavery enough in our community. i mean, i know my grandmother came from alabama, she doesn't talk about what her parents and her grandparents told her. and i've asked her, he's kind of like, you know, she just finds ways of sliding out of the conversation. and, you know, a primary source book like this is so important for us.

>> for myself, heritage was a huge part of my family upbringing. while my father was hungarian and catholic, my mother was, is jewish and came here from austria during world war ii or kind of close to the beginning stages. but i think one thing that i was raised knowing was that i'm lucky to even be here. that if my grandfather and grandmother hadn't made the decision to leave their belongings, their family behind, i wouldn't be sitting here today. and i think and i hope that my father always recognized the two parallels between what he loved to write about and who he loved in his life. and his children. >> there are some things that you just said, rebecca, that i think everyone here has a

certain perspective on, and i'd love to hear, and that is the notion of sacrifice. that in this book are the stories of supreme sacrifices of perm freedoms -- personal freedoms, of enjoyment, leisure time. how would you, dr. brown, speak to that idea of sacrifice? surely, you've given quite a bit of yourself, and what was your driving force? >> it is very interesting, i was thinking as toure was talking about slavery, in 1930 when i was about 8 years old it was 65 years from the end of slavery. now i'm 87 years old, and it's 65 years since world war ii. now, put those two things together, you have two parts of history that affected the

african-american tremendously. fighting out of slavery, going through reconstruction, going through the lynchings, then world war ii opening the door, integrating the military, the civil rights movement and one of the things that portia was going to ask me, what i think about a post-racial society. there's no such thing as a post-racial society. there's a post-segregation society because when i was a youngster, segregation was the law of the land. i went to a black school. i went to dunbar high school in washington, d.c., great school. and in that instance our schools were great because we made them great. we had great teachers, we had great mentors, we had great role models. so when you look around the sacrifice, sacrifice is relative to your time. i wonder, what would i be doing if i were a slave? i'd probably be plotting a

revolt of some sort. but then the question is, not everybody could plot a revolt. somebody had to intrude into the big house, find out what was going on, find out what the underground railroad was. so when we look at this, this is a book that gives you context. everything in this book should be viewed in context. and i'll leave it to each one of you to pick the segment of the book that relates to you. the business about blacks in the movies, the business about blacks in the sports, the business about blacks in the military. black inventers. there's so much there, but you have to put it in context. so just think about what i said. 65 years as a youngster after slavery, 65 years after world war ii as a professor. >> i mean, i think about that, too, what i would have done if i would have been a slave and think about, yeah, i want to be like nat turner, go out in a

blaze of flames. and i'm not going to do this, i'd rather be dead than this. i'm sure a lot of them tried to do what nat turner did. there must be other nat turners we don't hear about, tried to run away. we know thousands tried to run away, but others trying and failing. we also don't know those things that held them back. not just the brainwashing they were given, but just the physical things like how tired you were every day because you're barely eating, you're working all the time, you know, you don't see your family so you're heart broken all the time, and now i'm going to try to run away, but i don't know where to go because i'm not from around here. [laughter] >> but remember, frederick douglass told them follow the north star, and that was a start. [laughter] go north. >> but then toure, i know just given the the current book you're working on, you have thoughts on a post-racial

society. >> we had a meeting about that book as i recall. i mean, the book i'm working on is dealing with post-blackness which is not at all akin to post-racial. psychologically impossible. i mean, it's impossible for me to meet you or you and not think, you know, okay, this is a black person, she's a woman, she's younger than me, older than me, whatever. i mean, this is malcolm gladwell material, obviously, i'm going to know. now, the racism part comes in, are we going to make negative, positive or neutral decisions based on she's black, he's white, whatever? you know, and hopefully we'll make neutral decisions and not negative decisions based on those basic facts. what i'm talking about with post-black is something entirely different. there's a different way to rook at -- look at the possibilities of being black. as you know, there's much, much, much, more. we could take up the whole panel talking about that, and we

won't. [laughter] >> but malcolm talked about being black. he raised a lot of consciouses, he made a lot of people mad. let me ask you, as a youngster how did you respond to this? >> to what? >> the idea that being plaque was beautiful and not -- black was beautiful and not something you should avoid? >> i don't think that we ever thought we were to avoid anything. you know, so it's kind of difficult sometimes to answer some of the questions. we were happy, we were proud, we knew our mother made sure that we learned about who we were as women, who we were as people of the diaspora, so we just always grew up being proud of who we were. >> i mean, our generation had malcolm. she's malcolm's daughter, but she had malcolm in the house to understand and study. we grew up proud without that thing of, like, in your area you remember there was a time to be called african or to be called black was an insult, and we

didn't have that. >> however i grew up under the guidance and wiz tom of -- wisdom of frederick douglass, of w.e.b. duboise, so i grew up in a society where black was beautiful, black was excellence, and the people who didn't think that were stupid. >> that's right. but in the '60s james brown had to do a psa saying black is beautiful. nobody would do a song like that now because the idea is obvious. of course we have pride in ourselves and the way we look -- >> but do we really? you know, i think it's changing. i think it's, you know, i don't think that we really have a lot of pride in being black. i don't know that we even understand our history, the richness of it. and i think this is really the importance of this book and the importance of history is so that we can be proud of who we are, that we're not continuously

brainwashed. dr. rosco brown and i were just talking about it. in our household you were either a victim, or you were an activist, and there were no victims in my home the way we grew up, so we just knew. my mother always said just like one must drink water, one must give back. the struggle is not over as much as we'd like to think it is. it's really not over. it's ongoing, and it's really important that we teach our children, you know, the importance of history because my parents, thank god, made sure that we knew who we were and, you know, there was no question about it. we went to the same boarding school, you know? i think i'm older than you. [laughter] but when i went to school, there were, like, maybe two -- there was, there weren't many black girls. it was an -- >> [inaudible] >> and i remember doing my, later on when i went and got a masters, there was supposed to be this phenomenon about being a product of -- if you're a child of a single parent versus a

child of two parents. and i remember saying, is it better to be the raised by one functional parent versus two dysfunctional parents? [laughter] because my mother put us in school so that we could be a step ahead, not necessarily be in a school and in that surrounding so we could assimilate better. >> one of the things i hope this book does is to reach out to those young black folks who are alien ated, those who are perpetuating violence, those who are not understanding how proud we are and how proud they should be. so i would urge those of you who are going to buy the book -- i know everybody will -- to take that book and go the the corner and show them some of those things because there's so much amazing stuff in there. hundreds of patents by african-americans. so many african-americans who did discoveries and so on.

so those, we need to reach out to the young people who are alienated because what happened in our black community, sometimes those of us who have accomplished don't relate to those who haven't. and that's a big problem, and i think this book might help us by forcing us, leading us to share this with some of those young people. >> just going back to that idea of blackness being beautiful and having that message reinforced within your home, rebecca, i'd like to know because your father was such a collector and such an appreciator of black art how that message was translated to you and how you feel seeing that knowing how many people struggle with that, that you come into contact with. >> well, i mean, obviously -- i mean, i'm a woman, so, i mean, i've had my own personal struggle with beauty, and it's put upon me daily, what is beautiful. also back to what everyone was

saying prior, you know, i think we all would have liked to have revolted if we were enslaved, but there's also something to be said of the quiet revolt, you know? if you read victor frankel's book man's search for meaning, he spoke about making his way through the concentration camps by dreaming that he was eating breakfast every day with his wife. while he was hungry. and i hope that people buy this book and realize that their own personal life can be a personal statement that they make. it may not be heard on tv, it may not be in books, but that they can personally influence the people around them by being someone to look up to, by walking the walk. in my home beauty was not the big deal.

it just, it just wasn't. i think my mother is beautiful now and was beautiful then, you know? i think we were taught that strength was what you looked to in terms of beauty. and when my father was getting ready for this book, we were living in the adirondacks after growing up in manhattan, and there was only one african-american young man that came to school, and he was a foster kid who lived down the road with a farmer. from us. and the farmer was a bigot and called his foster son darkie. and that was very hard for me to deal with, and it was very upsetting for my father, and i think when tony came up to our house and brought slade and ford, her kids, i think for me

it helped me to understand that no matter what, i had to remain true to what i believed even though i, you know, suffered at the hands of some of those kids for being friends with charlie. and for being jewish and for having a father with a ponytail who had -- [laughter] you know, black people at the house, you know? [laughter] so i just think it's also a personal journey for everyone. >> god, what an incredible story. i mean, i want to know why this bigoted farmer had this kid, and i love that you're, like, tonihorseson came by the house. >> i had just read the bluest sky which blew me away. i was 9, i think, in '74. i hope i'm right. no -- '65 -- yeah, i was 9. [laughter] i had read the throughest sky,

and i was blown away. why that man did that, he probably got a check. you know? and i think that that leans back to the fact that, you know, we're talking about class struggle, and he probably wanted to shine his own shoes for thinking he was picking someone up. lo and behold, charlie was an incredible young man and a great playmate and a great friend. and that was that. and he would grow regardless. in the meantime, that same farmer asked people to skim his ponds because he was on the town panel and was hunting illegally, etc., etc. stuff that we don't do in manhattan. [laughter] but not to animals. we do it to people. [laughter] >> something that you did mention, just the word darkie has been a part of popular conversation a lot these days for any of you on twitter, i know i am.

[laughter] too much. but there was a recent trending topic that was things darkies say. and it was started by south africans who use the term affectionately the way some americans have an affectionate but still disparaging term that they use amongst themselves, but that wasn't why it became popular. it became popular because of u.s. users of the world who knew good and well what they were doing. it was an interesting moment to talk about race. i woke up one morning and a rapper was bringing this to the forefront, and everybody was contributing to what otherwise was a really sensitive the topic. and i appreciate his social networking for allowing a forum for that kind of discussion. toure, i know you were a part of that. how do you feel about the use of social networking sites to foster these -- >> i mean, one thing about twitter that's great and there's a lot of things about twitter that's great, you come into contact with what people really

feel. things they would not have the cajones to say to your face. and i call it the courage of the computer. you're at your computer, and you know you're not going to get punched in the face or even yelled at, so you'll say whatever. and it might be to tell me that you think such and such about me or it might be to say things that are racist. and i've encountered several times there was somebody whose name on twitter was one less nigger, okay? there was a trending topic one day that kanye had died, and somebody sent out a tweet saying, same thing, good. one less dumb nixger. you know? and i've had things like that, actually i remember a guy was mad at me for going on msnbc and saying that rush limbaugh wanted to own the st. louis rams because he wanted to own a plantation full of black men. [laughter] so his response to me for that

was he sent me a picture of a lynching which i think is in this book, and there was some little cutie line with it or something like, you know, these are your cousins. like as if i don't know that. as if i don't know that history, as if i don't know these people are my direct relatives. they are still my brothers and sisters even if they're not my bloodline. but i think there's a value in us knowing this amount of racism still exists. i was on o'reilly's show before the election, but o'reilly wasn't there, it was laura ingram, and she made, she -- the decision was will there still be racism if -- and at that point they were conceding obama was going to be b elected -- if and when he's elected? and i was arguing, of course there will still be racism, and she laughed like that was the

most ridiculous concept ever. like if this man is elected, that clearly is the end of racism, and you can take young arguments -- your arguments somewhere else. obviously, racism has not ended by the election of barack obama. >> but, of course b, that's what they want to do because, therefore, they want to put in policies that negatively affect poor people, african-americans, latinos. it really is absolutely silly that people say that racism is over. all you've got to do is walk the streets and breathe the air, and you know that racism is there. the question that this book doesn't address but we might want to think about is how do we go to that next step? there's some things in the book about things that african-americans discovered, opticals that -- obstacles that they overcame, and it didn't say how we overcame them, it just said that we overcame them. and one of the things that i'd like to see out of a book is it

causes us to go beyond what we read and see. so a dialogue that you might have with your children, your friends, your office workers about this. some people say, let's not talk about race. we have to talk about race because race is just as important as gender. there are obvious things that are different, but it doesn't mean that you're different as a human being. so then the question is, how do you deal with this? one of the things this book does, it helps to pump up your egoas a black -- ego as a black person. that blacks discovered this, that they helped to build the woolworth building. they, obviously, helped to build the pyramids, that they helped to change basketball, they helped to change the military. we did a hell of a lot in this world. so this is something we should be proud of, but at the same time we need to establish the fact that this is not a post-racial society, it's a

post-segregation society and that we don't have the legal bounds that we used to have, but we still have some of those. and that's why we need to support groups like the legal defense fund, the naacp and all of those who are fighting for freedom for everybody, not just african-americans. >> interesting you find this book a boost to the ego, and there is that part of it, i think, in the last third -- >> right. >> -- maybe the last half. but the first half -- >> is oppression. >> -- it's harrowing. i mean, i was almost crying going back through it like these brothers are getting lynched and charred and burned and attacked, and they're constantly on the run. i can't imagine the mind set of these people who were -- let me -- you were going to ask what's our favorite story. i'm going to just jump ahead to that because this is a fantastic thing from 1911. and they put it over two pages, angry mob burn a colored man who murdered police officer. and, you know, obviously, this

story -- you have to read through the lines because it starts off saying having shot in cold blood and instantly killed this police officer, well, obviously, this brother did not just run out in the street and shoot this officer. so something was happening before that. but, you know, his end is horrific because he is running, he's hiding for a day and a half while the whole town is looking for him. so the terror he must have felt. they finally find him in a tree and bring him down from that -- well, no, when he's in the tree, he must -- he realizes the end is here, and they're going to rip me apart. so let's have it out now. and he puts a gun to his head and tries to kill himself. and the article doesn't say why that does not kill him, but it doesn't kill him. so then he has to go to the hospital where they say he's quickly revived. how was he quickly revived? [laughter] while they're beating the crap out of him?

and then he goes to jail, but then the mob drags him out of jail and lynches him. i mean, can you imagine how he must have felt? like, you hear the mob coming towards the jail, and you're like, oh, god. this is why i tried to pull the trigger, and i can't even imagine what he must have felt going through all of that. and he knows how it began, that the cop came up and was going to shoot him or was going to attack him or whatever the cop did to begin this whole problem. >> but, of course, this can make you so mad that you have difficulty mobilizing yourself, and maybe that's part of the beauty of this book. they put the real oppressive and nasty stuff up in the front and toward the end they begin to give us bill robertson, hattie mcdaniels, lena horne. >> this is the the generational divide that i think is going on

in our community because i hear from people in your generation that you guys experienced more racism than our generation did, but we are angrier about racism and the history than you guys are. and our tactics, our emotional tactics for dealing with it are different. and you look at this and you're like, well -- >> you don't know how awning ri we were -- angry we were. >> no, i know. not to take anything away from -- >> we can intellectualize this, you know, we've got hope, and we've got oppression, but the fact is that a book like this generates a kind of conversation that you and i are having right now. >> right, right, right. >> and a book like this makes it that, hopefully, let us not forget. i mean, we constantly talk about not repeating history, and yet we constantly repeat history. whether it's anti-semitism against african-americans, you know, it's a constant repetition. and we don't seem to know how to

do it. i don't know why. but i myself feel discouraged, so it's, you have to put what's tougher. but it's just as hard for some of the women that were in the back, you know, of the cotton club cabaret for being darker than the lighter-skinned women in the front. so it's not that the book went from harsh to easy. there might have been a more palatable part. but that woman in the back of the cabaret may have been the best dancer there, and yet she has to do what she has to do, you know? and we still have people today coloring themselves white. or hiding their heritage. or whatever's going on. so there's a lot going on. >> as you have about raised two questions for me and one i'm

sorry i didn't prepare you guys for and that is the images toward the end of the book are a lot of black hollywood images, and you do see ma'am -- mammy images there. toni morrisson said enjoying king fish was enjoyable, how those images of black folks that seems caricatures if we look at them now, people actually enjoy. and i see a parallel in entertainment now. i mean, some people will say tyler perry is caricature, but other people are like, hey, you know what? we're there, we're in films, he can green light himself. i like that conversation. do you and how do you participate, everyone? >> well, it's hard to judge the previous generation's entertainment choices with our

lens, right? it's hard to do that, and i think we've made great mistakes in history doing that. ralph ellison being called a tom in the '60s because the mood had changed toward what your father was giving us -- not that he used that -- which was obviously completely wrong, you know, ralph ellison was never a tom. louis armstrong encountered some of the same things. no, farther from the truth. but, you know, we can't misunderstand, we can't judge the actors of a certain generation and say, well, you were playing these maids and upholding stereotypes. it's too complicated to just judge them that way. but, yeah, nowadays i want to get out the pitch fork when i see people cooning, and some people try to make this connection between precious and -- which is an amazing, brilliant film that i would urge all of you to see and bring two boxes of kleenex because it will mess up your whole day.

but it is amazing. [laughter] but then, but the amazing nuanced, beautiful portrayal of a very difficult black life in precious, and then the caricature of a black woman in tyler perry's movies. and, you know, if he made one i'd be like, okay, whatever. but, you know, how many has he made of these? six, seven, ten? and he's green lighting himself? i don't know, i don't know, i don't know. getting rich off selling poison, you know, well, he's rich. but at what cost to the rest of us? >> yeah, but if you think about it, years ago my mom was just telling me this morning that a lot of the movies that are in this book, the whole sections with the african-americans were taken out in the south. you couldn't even see that. so you're always going to have somebody making a film that you find disturbing or parts of it seem disturbing or you don't

think someone is leading correctly. but we're here in america, and we're given the right to free speech. so i think for me a lot of it has to start at home. what do you teach your children at the tablesome -- table? how do you prepare them to see things in movies, and how do you prepare them to go to school? how do you prepare them to defend? whether it's one person at home or none or whatever. you know? i mean, we have to take some personal responsibility rather than looking could be our noses at everyone -- down our noses at everyone. >> you know, and that is very true. and i know one of the things that my father pointed out is a parallel oppression of the modern jew and those of african descent, and he said that jewish people never lost pride in being jewish. they knew they made a significant contribution, and they make sure that the world knows. and all of us in here know about the holocaust. and we even discuss it. but when it comes to, you know,

the enslavement of african people and, you know, we don't talk about it, and we get bored, and we get embarrassed, and we get restless because we really don't know all of the stories. we should know the stories of timbuktu the. we should know, you know, the reason that we were taken and that we cultivated the rest of the world. we should know this and then take pride in how these people who were enslaved and tortured and psychologically traumatized and dehumanized and everything else, how were they able to keep their spirit? how were they able to survive and still create and design and do all the things that they did and, you know, and then here we are today. how, why aren't, why are now our children, you know, with the black, the black and white doll, you know? and they call themselves the hb and the n words.

and so many other things. so we're not really stepping up to the plate, and all of us, clearly, are capable. and so, you know, it just becomes, again, are we being activists or are we being victims? >> i guess the question is who's going to step up to the plate? whenever something like this book comes about, it energy eyeses the discussion about what black folks did and didn't do and what they have done, but one of the things i think can come out of this is a lively discussion about the issues. like toure and i talking about the bad part and the good part, the fact that we were able to survive. as a matter of fact, there's a little piece in there, i think toni morrisson is wrote, we were able to survive. we did things to ourselves that we might not be proud of, but we were able to survive. and that strength of survival is a thing that we need to revitalize and carry on to our young people.

and in a sense by letting people read some of these things and see some of these pictures, it might raise their consciousness because that is one of the things that should happen from good literature. >> very, very, very, very extremely important that we do know our history. it's so important. and, you know, this is really a great collection of preserving some of it. >> thank you. >> just with the experience of katrina, you know, history should have said that we should have never let that happen again. but it happened. okay, a flood happened, that we can't stop. but everything else that went on was just an abomination, and that should never, ever happen. but it did. so i think we are given chances to discuss this. but, unfortunately, i think that we often muffle people from talking about the nitty-gritty

when, you know, not everything is going to be free and frolic. i mean, you're going to have to talk to your children, you're going to have to talk to your friends, you're going to have to really talk about things, and if they're uncomfortable, let 'em take a breather and come back. but i don't think we should coddle any longer. we don't have time. why do we have to wait, you know, obama, why do we have to keep -- he shouldn't have been the first black president. this is crazy. you know? we shouldn't have to wait. >> one thing in reading this book, though, you can get very, very angry and say that some of the things that happened then still happen now. there's a section in there about the military and about blacks being important at the west point and about their being forced to take examinations under difficult circumstances and being failed out of the first 18 blacks to be appointed

to west point, only two of them, colonel charles young and henry o. clifford, were able to graduate. and this resonates to a lot of young people. a lot of young african-americans who are in schools that are not expecting much of them and put them down, so one of the things we have to do among ourselves is to point out the struggle that we went through to keep going step by step by step. i, as you know, was one of those in the tuskegee airmen. the official statement was that mr. speakers couldn't learn to -- blacks couldn't learn to fly, and some of the instructors didn't want us to learn to fly. but we kept after it. fortunately, we had a white commander who did believe we should get a chance, and we were able to learn to fly. after we learned to fly, they didn't want us to go to combat because we would not do the job right, and we fought through and went to combat. we did so well, then they wanted us to escort those bombers. that just shows what striving accomplishes, but you've got to stick by it step by step by step

and not let 'em turn you around. >> shall we go to questions? >> yeah. >> ladies and gentlemen, if you could just raise your hand and wait for me to come around with the mic. thank you. >> hi, everyone. my name is stephanie. and my question was about what exactly do you guys consider blackness? i'm on twitter, also, and i remember i was talking to my friend earlier about how there was an issue about your blackness because your wife wasn't black, and people were trying to say, oh, he's not really black because he's not married to a black woman which, to me, was absurd. and in the black book i really don't remember the name of the chapter, but he was saying he met this family in the south and being black which was being who they were, it was who you woke up as. so i just wanted to hear your opinions. >> yeah. my wife is from lebanon, i hear that occasionally, like, when

somebody's in an argument with me about a certain point and, you know, they're losing or whatever. [laughter] well, you're not really black anyway. like that. how is that an invalidator, you know? i'm black enough for the both of us. [laughter] but the thing is, you know, blackness is whatever you are. there's no authentic way of being black, there's no one sort of thing and then, you know, like jim brown is black and everybody else deviates away from him or malcolm x is the standard and everybody else deviates away from him. we all perform plaqueness in -- blackness in our own way. it's a little different for everybody, you know? and even clarence thomas is black. [laughter] he can't get away from it. we may not like the way that he performs blackness, that he

think thinks about blackness, but he's still in the tent. we can't kick him out. >> well, i'm just happy anita hill is a woman. [laughter] i will say there was one thing, i don't know if my family knows this, when my -- in the '70s when my dad wrote the book, i remember he got a letter or phone call from someone, and he was really upset. somebody he knew. and they said, how could he get involved with this book was it's a coffee table book? he didn't know if african-american families had coffee table. [laughter] so, i mean, i hope it's just everyone has a coffee table at some point. [laughter] >> we've got another question up here. >> hi. my name is butler, and identify got -- [inaudible] this is a very interesting note about what i wanted to contribute or maybe ask how you

can reconcile that. during the time of slavery, there was a lot of colonial occupations on, of african countries and in the caribbean. now, when you look at jewish struggles and you're talking about jewish accomplishments, they don't isolate it to various countries. they say america, england or hungary for example. they talk about freedom fighters all around fighting for the course of freedom. i've been to quite similar panels, but everyone seems to talk about individual struggles in various countries. and there's been a lot of great freedom fighters all across the globe from angola, south africa, going forward how are they going to be integrated into this book or the struggle because kids from this country who see the world in a bigger perspective --

[inaudible] champion freedom across the globe, not just in america. how are we going to integrate that? >> it's a very interesting question, african-americans tend not to think die sporeically. i think our struggle as african-americans is very specifically american because we are physically, literally and figuratively cut off from africa, and now we're dealing with an american problem trying to get rights and peace and freedom and access to things that allow us to live and prosper within america. and things that are happening in africa don't seem to have a direct connection to what we're dealing with. going forward, perhaps we should think more globally. i mean, it's difficult to compare us to the jewish struggle in that way because that was a much more global struggle. there are people who were coming out of several european countries if not the middle east as well trying to figure out, you know, where are we going to go dealing with hitler in a world war. so it's a different struggle. it's not easy to compare them in

that same way. but -- >> there was a man back in 1917 who talked about going back to africa and reaching out for african brother, marcus garvey. so there's been a long strain of that. >> right. >> toure's right, the geographical difference has something to do with it, but also it had to do with the differences in africa. not all parts of africa are the same, not all people have the same language, have the same culture. so i agree we should be reaching out, and many of us are, and hopefully this book will stimulate many people to reach out and find out about our african roots. >> [inaudible] okay. we've got another question up front. >> okay, thank you. i've enjoyed the panel very much, thank you. my name is maya kennedy. i noticed on page 38 there's a photograph of the fifth jubilee singers, and i did a documentary film on the singers, and most

americans don't know it's because of the fifth jubilee singers that nashville, tennessee, is called music city because in the 1870s when they sang for queen victoria, she pronounced to her court that they sing so beautifully, they must be from the music city. and now we hear the words music city, nashville, and we think it's all about country music. so i want to ask the panel -- and they are making billions and billions of dollars on this farce because those words, music city, had nothing to do originally with country music. it was about this group of former slaves who sang for the queen of england. so how do we address this cover-up that has kept us impoverished? i see it primarily as a financial purpose by keeping this history hidden, but i'd like to hear your comments on that. >> hey, toure, you could bring it out on your program in the morning. >> yes, absolutely. [laughter] >> but one of the issues when we talk about history that's been lost is how do you correct it?

and the only way you correct it is to keep repeating what the truth is because we're not going to get the money from it, but we do want the recognition and want people to know that our contributions helped to make, in this instance nashville, but helped to make this country great. i'm glad you brought that up, that was an excellent part of reading the book and then sharing information with the rest of us. thank you. >> i'm going to agree with that. you know, you're familiar with john henry clark, most people haven't a clue that the people in the caribbean, the people in america, the black people in caribbean and america and on the continent that we're all the same people. and i think for me one of the greatest benefits is being able to travel. and i went to the south african traditional music awards, and in watching this huge production they had the green carpet, you

know, it was really, really big, i got to see so many different traditional dance and so forth, and, i mean, i could have easily been in the caribbean seeing them, i could have been in america seeing the lindy hop in the '20s, i could have seen is greek stepping, so i think really it's up to us. if we are aware of our history and we are aware that there is a lie, you know, that someone else is claiming our history, you know, it's so big you want to kind of, like, i don't want to say too many things, but, you know, that it's our, it's our responsibility to the really make sure that we are the ones who preserve our history. and if this isn't enough, then we have to do more books and promote john henry clark and not be afraid of malcolm x because malcolm x was just a very young man. a lot of people don't know this, he was just in his 20s when he took on a huge responsibility.

he was in his 20s. people say he went to the middle east and he changed. he didn't change, he evolved. we continue to grow, we learn, we talk the differently. but my father read everything that you could imagine. these were values that were instilled in him. i know you didn't ask this question, but these were values instilled by his apartments. so we have to take responsibility. if we don't know the history, we have to learn it, preserve it, document it and everything else. he said that -- [laughter] >> but i do think that what you were saying before is the saddest part because what it does attribute to most of the time is the bottom line. money. who's going to bring the most money rather than acknowledging what you were talking about. so i think, again, what i said is earlier about this personal responsibility as you were saying, it's something you have to do personally whether you're on the radio talking about it or not.

who do you meet every day? who do you rub elbows with every day? i mean, there's so much we blow under the rug even in this country where we're supposed to be so open and whatever else all. we don't talk about the fact that, you know, there are people that are starving right now. it's all the bottom line most of the time. so i would just keep putting your view out there, talk about it, write about it, push it. >> we've got our next question still in the middle section. >> hi. building off of what shabazz said in her last comment a little bit, to what extent does religion permeate is issue of blackness both in -- >> to what extent does media influence -- >> religion. >> religion? well, remember, we didn't come with the religion that most

black folks have now. >> right. >> and religion was used as a tool to help to subjugate us, but also later became a tool we used ourselves against the masters. so when it says steal away, we meant steal away. [laughter] >> yeah. and i don't know, but a lot of the african people that were taken were muslims that were brought into this country. i know a lot of people didn't know that, but most of the african people that were taken were muslims. >> that's right. >> ladies and gentlemen, we're going to try to start doing the questions, like, in a lightning round. i think we can squeeze two or three more in. here's one of them. >> hi. oh. my name is norman douglas. anyways, i've been concerned our the years, you know, i grew up in a predominantly white environment, so, in fact, our family was the only black family in a town of 10,000 people. i used to say i went to a public school in a private town.

but -- [laughter] i think that at a certain point, you know, i've found what gets overlooked a lot in this country is class. and one of my favorite examples is everyone's familiar with the guy who does this american life. and he prefaced one episode that documented the the life of a single black mother by saying that something like 70% of black children versus 25% of white children grow up in homes that are run by a single mother. and if you do the math, actually the number -- that means because there were only 10, 11% of the population, if you do the math, that means that actually twice the number of white children are

growing up with single mothers than black children. and in other words, in this country there are more white people living under poverty in what's the official poverty line than there are black people period. but the media constantly gives us these figures and percentages so that if you say, like, 80% of black people are poor versus 20% of white people, it keeps sounding like more black people are poor than white. and the issue of class becomes ignored so not only are we stuck with a situation where black people feel like they are the cause of poverty and white people think they are, but you have, like, all these white people who feel isolated. so i'm wondering what role, like, how we can, like, get this idea of class different out because i think that the class difference kind of precipitates all the other problems, racism, sexism, gender issues and so

forth. sorry for the length of that. [laughter] >> yeah, but playing the the job of compare tiff -- comparative sawtist ings -- statistics is really not a productive way of dealing with it. as black folks we ought to be trying to do the best that we can and reach out and help our folks. and this book helps to give you the background of where we came from and where we need to go. so they've survived under difficult circumstances, they've continued to survive, and we want to continue to help them survive with the pride and the respect that's going to make them better citizens and feel better about themselves and contribute more to society. >> i, i don't know. i mean, i appreciate that, but i understand what norman's saying, you know, actually. i think there is a huge class

problem in our country in the sense that there's a lot of shame involved with whoever is poor. whether it be black, white, whatever. whatever color it is. and until we stop being ashamed of the fact that the ones who have really don't want to be elbow to elbow with those that don't, weaver not going to -- we're not going to get anywhere. you know, we have to -- that's the new hidden problem, is this shame. i mean, i myself lost my job. i lost my apartment in harlem. i was pushed out, you know, i can't afford it. i'm living back at home, and thank god i have a place to go. but this should not be my path at age 44. but i'm not ashamed to say this. you know? i was more ashamed that people with hiv weren't being helped. i'm more ashamed that the drug

companies are running this world. i'm more ashamed that we're not talking truthfully about the lack of food. people will have a blackberry before they already food on their table. and what is that? that, to me, is hellish. you know? and i think we have to talk about what's going on even when i went to get help from the welfare department, the guy took six personal calls while talking to me and then muffled his supervisor, what is this white girl doing up here moaning about the fact that she can't afford her apartment? you know? and i'm sorry, that's bs on any level. i don't care what color i was when i walked in there. i don't care what i have to go through. and the next question was, do i

have any children because then they would have helped me. and am i a crack addict because they would have helped me then too. [laughter] so maybe we -- it's great to have books like this and god knows i'm proud of my father. and i'm proud of toni and everyone and everyone here and all of that. but we have to unveil what we're really ashamed of. you know, in this country. and i'm sorry, but this country, we have got to get it together. [applause] >> ladies and gentlemen, i think, i'm afraid we've run out of time for actual live questions. portia, is there anything that you want to wrap up on, any one single point for tonight? >> no, just thank you all for being here. that was the point. you've been a fantastic

audience. thank you so much. >> on behalf of barnes & noble, we want to thank our entire panel, portia burke, ilyasah shabazz and toure. thank you so much. ladies and gentlemen, as a reminder, copies of the black book are for sale, you can purchase them downstairs at the register. we thank you so much for coming, we hope you enjoyed this evening. knox no, -- [inaudible conversations] >> the black book, 35th anniversary edition, was parished by random house. for more information visit randomhouse.com. >> coming up next, booktv presents after words, an hourlong program where we invite guest hosts to interview authors. this week joan biskupic discusses her new book, american

original, a biography of supreme court justice antonin scalia. she explores the justice's colorful personality and history. the veteran legal reporter talks with former u.s. solicitor general ted olson. >> host: joan, you have written a book about justice antonin scalia, and your title is, "the american original: the life and constitution of supreme court justice antonin scalia," but i was taken with the words, american original. and i think that's very apt, but i'm wondering how you came to that. tell me about that. >> guest: that's an interesting question because, you know, you want the book to reflect the subject and what you're dealing with, but you also want a title that will urge people to pick it up and read it. and at first my publisher and editor and i were thinking about

should we just call it scalia. you know, he's well known enough that you could probably get away with that. but then we wanted to conote something larger because he is so much larger. as you know, it's a pun in some ways. first of all, it reflects his italian-american story which is so much a part of this book, but the word original is tied to his legal approach of originalism in which he looks back at what the 18th century drafters of the constitution wanted in the document and how it should be interpreted today. so we thought that that was actually, it was the practice of a committee, i have to say, the title of american original, and it reflects him as a first generation american and also a proponent of the originalism legal theory. >> host: and he is an original in a way, and there's no one, i think, that's ever been like him on the supreme court. is that also what you thought about? >> guest: yes. and, in fact, so many people are