boy, delaney made a terrific pass that time down inside. alabi couldn't finish it and delaney does. >> bob: malcolm delaney, 18 points, three rebounds and five assists. >> larry: i think i counted four changes of possession on that particular play. >> bob: and no puns. 53-45. five minutes left. snaer bounced back to singleton. ooh. >> larry: hokies, with big fullcourt pressure after that time-out. >> bob: hokies tried to feed it inside, it's out of bounds to virginia tech.

20 turnovers now for the home team. >> larry: when that ball was on the perimeter and florida state is trying to get it inside, those five guys collapsed so fast. i mean, all five of them can stand there and hold hands. they're so close to each other. >> bob: delaney, six seconds to shoot. >> larry: sometimes delaney puts himself in jeopardy. when he goes down the lane like that and guys aren't open. he puts himself in a bad position the because the big guys make it difficult for him to get his shot off. >> bob: 30-second time-out for virginia tech. florida state again continues to

pile up the blocks. >> larry: that's why they lead the atlantic coast conference. they've big guys and have great tiling on anybody trying to take a shot in the lane. the other thing, they get a lot of off-the-ball tries. when a guy is riding the basket. somebody is always coming in from the other side and singleton did it on that particular play. one of that reason they get a lot of blocks, is not just the one-on-one guy taking the man defensively. it's the people coming from the other side. >> bob: the leader in the nation is uconn. they block about, on average, nine shots a game. florida state has eight in this one. six seconds to shoot, 4:21 left.

here's delaney. rebounded by kitchen. >> larry: there's going to be a point here pretty soon. seth greenberg is going to have to come out of this zone defense. florida state is going to try to start to milk a little of the clock. too early to put it away. >> bob: and the shoot, the ball is kicked.

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yeahtill le w anr: ag's le, ep tg. get starte on your own inventions or just play some games at... more at supportyourvet.org. >> bob: 53-45, florida state, four minutes left in the game. if you were anticipating seeing the lsu-game we'll take audiences to the s.e.c. match in gainesville as soon as we're finished here in tallahassee. malcolm delaney with 18 points.

for the hokies tonight. six of those points at the foul line. solomon alabi has emerged as fsu's leading scorer with 13, eight rebounds. and one blocked shot. >> larry: bob, part of the reason that virginia tech is dralg by eight, is the fact that while delaney has 18, the next highest scorer for virginia tech is hudson with 14. and the other guys only have three. >> bob: a foul is called, but the time-out came first. so leonard hamilton has to gather the troops. virginia tech shooting 29% in the second half. and florida state is shooting 47% in the second half. florida state is playing its third game in seven days and

they'll get a bit of a break to prepare for georgia tech, they'll be in here next sunday for a noon game before the 'noles go out on the road to fake duke and durham and boston college in chestnut hill. >> larry: georgia tech beat duke, beat north carolina, lose to this florida state team at home and lose to virginia in charlottesville. the acc is wide open this year. i could not at this point have said, take one team to pick to win it, i couldn't do it. i could not do it. the one team that's undefeated is virginia. tony bennett, the new coach at virginia, saying most things are not too hard. >> bob: they're getting ready to go with miami up in charlottesville at this hour. cavaliers, the only unbeaten left in conference play. singleton, fires it out, shot clock at six. snaer misses. rebound to the hokies. avila has it.

jeff allen travels. trying to make a quick move. he was the guy that you spotted a couple of minutes ago, larry as a key for the hokies, as he's been saddled with massive foul problems tonight. he's scored only three. the three-pointer to start the second half. >> larry: he's had a terrible night. not a typical jeff allen night. he's a much better player than what we have witnessed. >> bob: he had only six points in the name here last season. 53-45. the clock is now becoming a big enemy for the hokies. they're content, larry, to stay in the zone. >> larry: i think they've got to come out of this. they're down eight right now, they've got to come out and get some shots. >> bob: the shot clock under ten now. kitchen and an illegal screen as

singleton threw the elbow out, trying to pick off dorenzo hudson and singleton's got four personals.

delaney's fourth. >> larry: watch solomon alabi right here. i'll tell you what, that is such a forceful guy. with that kind of timing, whatever offense you run, you've got to think of instead of taking a two-foot shot, you've got to take 15-foot shots. he's there as a reminder that you can't run your offense by him. >> bob: the lsu-florida game has tipped off in gainesville. we'll get you to that game. the regional audiences airing the s.e.c. game as soon as we're done here. florida state, 16 of 22 at the line. they've gained seven points on virginia tech in that department. the hokies, 9 of 19. a ten-point game with 2:30 left. no time to waste for virginia

tech. delaney goes right to the rack and gets fouled. alabi's fourth. >> larry: i continue to be amazed that the 6'3" guard would go in and challenge a 7'1" guy, a 6'9" guy, he won't be denied. he pushed out a little with the left arm as he was going up. the other league, it goes the other way. >> bob: malcolm delaney, the junior from baltimore. earlier became the hokies' 40th all-time 1,000-point scorer. jeff allen has joined in that regard this season. 19 points as jt thompson comes back, and allen sits. >> larry: bob, after virginia tech had cut the lead of florida state to 44-42, they are 1 of 7

from the field. >> bob: wow. >> larry: here comes the full-court pressure. >> bob: gets it to snaer, middle to kitchen. and the lob-up is good. >> larry: pretty play. you could see that coming. kitchen says, i've got my big man on the baseline. throw it up there. >> bob: and they waved >> larry: they claim the ball was above the

some

ut to the open man. bell there to receive it and to launch it. >> bob: just the second three he's hit in acc games this season. what a timely one, to be sure. and we've got our game reset. each team with a time-out left. and florida state's got the arrow. should have come down to that. 23.1. the only chance for the hokies now, they've got the foul to stop the clock. and hope that the 'noles can miss a few free throws. still, a daunting task to try to

get a couple of possessions to keep them from scoring. and a chance to capitalize at the other end. in gainesville. a 12-4 florida lead over lsu first half. we'll take you there as soon as we leave this game. >> larry: seth greenberg in his time-out over here. he's probably selected the one or two guys he wants to foul. and he's made that message passed on to his players. said, look, we've got to get these guys, quick. they can't wait. we've only got 23 seconds left. >> bob: the dilemma of course is to hope the ball goes to those guys. florida state is thinking, we just want to get it in the hands of our best foul shooters. >> larry: the guy they want to foul is throwing it in. singleton, the guy they can't foul. >> bob: it sort of takes him out of the equation.

snaer -- with 20.9. snaer is a 63% foul shooter. in acc games, he's 3 for 4. bell, with that fouls out of the game. seth greenberg, looks down the bench, he takes the time allotted. and now that they're going to put boggs in the game. snaer lines up and we're ready for basketball. >> larry: he's got a chance to put this one away if he makes both of these free throws. >> bob: it's a one-and-one. nine team fouls on the hokies. >> larry: if he makes this one,

virginia tech needs three scoring possessions. i like this pressure, i think he's going to help florida state. a couple of threes and he's in a tie game, virginia tech has to hurry. >> bob: delaney, kick-out. hudson -- got one of them. dorenzo hudson now with 19. 12 seconds left. a three-point game. singleton now gets it into alabi. the handoff to kitchen. nine seconds and the foul. >> larry: i wasn't sure they were going to get to him. they almost got down the sideline to the baseline. watch delaney a good look to the right side, delivering the pass and the finish. dorenzo hudson has made a good second half.

>> bob: hudson has scored 12 of his 19 in the second half and he's hit three three's in the game. kitchen to the line. two shots. >> bob: getting a little tight. made by kitchen here, really puts the onus on virginia tech. they'll need two scoring chances. kitchen's second, miss. seven seconds, delaney. cuts it to one. 59-58. singleton gets it in. tapped away. 3.6 remaining. >> larry: the one thing that allen has got to be careful

about, is not to reach across the baseline and hit the ball. >> bob: time-out, seminoles. what about this finish? >> larry: how about this

ss. uched. >> bob: it will be academic, if one free throw is made.

>> larry: exactly. i was watching delaney on the play, he made a cut, a curl right across the middle of the floor up floor. he is on t leftside. ll,where near hi and flo knew

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that certainly leadership is important in the command and control process in the u.s. military involvement, for example in afghanistan but you also mention that leadership is also important and is something that ought to be done by the counterinsurgency factors, the u.s. naval command. in terms of affecting local host governments, structures of

leadership, i think that you know tom mentioned some issues about police and training of the army and i would certainly agree with that but you want to be careful how far you want to take that. you certainly don't want to be perceived in terms of leadership because it is something that could be used against you very easily. that is the case of pakistan against the u.s.. that is the issue raised. afghanistan there is not that issue gets so that is my question, if you want to elaborate. >> those are a couple of important issues. let me hit on this quickly. maybe i did not cover these in enough detail but in terms of governance as well as security, leadership is important in all of those. corruption is entirely a problem of that leadership is specially in afghanistan because afghans will tell you if somebody is taking a bribe, their bosses probably involved in it too so

if you don't have a police chief who has summoned integrity there is going to be corruption. if the mayor doesn't have the proper care, there's going to be corruption. you mentioned with the tribe. good leaders are going to have that intuition in that complex problem solving skill that will help them deal with that. in terms of the question about influencing, the united states influencing to afghanistan's leaders are, there is actually a lot of this going on already end of the top two the americans who have worked over there with the police for example which has horrific leadership problems there have been terrible afghan police chiefs who are corrupter didn't know what they were doing and we have gone to the afghans and said, this guy really needs to go. now, we haven't always twisted their arms and fortunately one of the good things that has happened lately in afghanistan is they have got a new interior

minister who came in last year who has been very cooperative with the soap most cases when he assembled we will go to him and say so-and-so is corrupt, so-and-so is allowing his troops to rape young boys. he will get them out of there. now there are still exceptions, if someone is a relative of karzai then things become problematic. we like to think we are going to defer to the host nation's judgement but sometimes we have got to have a role in the same thing goes too in iraq early on we said we are going to let the afghans do it. you have got to let the native population to get themselves. sometimes that just doesn't work and sometimes the americans just have to get more involved. >> a question over here. >> hi tom. i have got to comment. i am a civil affairs guy and i have that kind of a comment for tom and then a question for mark. i have got to pick up on where

you left off on your final point because i think in my experience as a practitioner in this kind of business to include low level counterinsurgency operations and i just did in liberia. >> i just want to point out that chris was the one of the great heroes when he tried to keep the kobo from blowing up. >> i think there is way too much emphasis on hearts and minds. as i like to tell people i don't care if you like me because i'm going home to write my harley-davidson. so my mission here is to make you like yourself, because we are done at some time. it is that lawrence bing, our time is short and it is not our country, so the emphasis should be i like to call not just capacity but in confidence on their part and that has been my approach to it. so i certainly underscore, we

and our doctrine and the reproaches it is way too much about hearts and minds and i think we lose a lot of resources that way. mark, i found your presentation fascinating but i have also read john nagl's book and i talked with john that link. learning to eat soup with a knife and of course is premise is that successful counterinsurgency is predicated on which is the better learning organization and i wonder if you could comment and your patient inside about the goal of leadership in this idea of learning organizations and help us to connect? >> that is a good question. i think there are aspects of the learning organization modeled that are very important and one of the points i make in the book is it was a big mistake to throw counterinsurgency out the window as the army basically did after vietnam and the marine corps did continue to do some

construction. so i think you want that to be an important part but there is i think, there is a danger and there's an interview with general mattis i did that is quoted in the book to talk about this. with the focus too much fun being in bunning organization you tend to get to drawn into your doctrine and try to much to rely on the past and that again gets back to this issue of certain personalities like to use the past then to think innovatively about the present. mattis' point the u.s. military has become over reliant on its doctrine and certainly the army has a greater tendency in that regard but as i said too, every situation is different. i do think we can't use the model and apply it everywhere but i have found most of the good practitioners, certainly did very good ones have study a lot of history so they have a lot of familiarity with the subject.

how you want to have familiarity and you are not going to know the answers but if you spend time thinking about it in capturing lessons learned when you get to this situation you will have a toolbox that will help you address those problems. >> i just want to add to summarize this discussion in one line the army has a doctrine and the marine corps has a culture. >> we have got time for one more. way in the back. >> i was wondering, could you comment on intelligence, did the value of intelligence and i'm not talking about targeting. i'm talking about strategic intelligence especially related to the population in the culture and so forth. >> most of what i cover in the book in terms of intelligence is the human intelligence and i think really the most important intelligence in counterinsurgency is that local

level and getting the villagers to tell you where the insurgents are, who they are which again comes back to leadership. my first book on the phoenix program in vietnam had a great deal of that in part of how i got into this was i was talking to these intelligence officers who worked in vietnam and they said, which areas where you get more intelligence? where did you have the cooperation supporting you are helping umar and it always came back to the with the south vietnamese district chief or what have you come so i think it is critical there. in terms of the larger strategic intelligence, are you talking about in terms of understanding culture or in a country? >> , charrie really putting our efforts into doing the intelligence? >> i think, i think we are doing what needs to be done and i

think as i mentioned battlefield circulation with commanders is a big part of this because if you have someone like general mcchrystal who is going out and talking to people in the field, he tends to learn more that way then if he sits back in his headquarters like general sanchez did for example in iraq. i mean, certainly there's a lot of other intelligence stuff out there that we don't know about but i think if he were looking at the intelligence that is going to be used to make a decision on whether to commit more troops, i think we have probably got a pretty good handle at the higher levels because of the fact we have got commanders there who are, spent the time to go out and hear from the horse's mouth what is going on in these districts, so any comments on that? >> i want to give a great thanks to mark moyar in tom ricks for

this terrific discussion. again we do have books in the back a thanks again for your remarks and thanks to all of you for coming today. appreciate it. [applause] >> marine corps university professor mark moyar is the author of "triumph forsaken," the vietnam war in 1954 to 1965 in "phoenix and the birds of prey," counterinsurgency and counter-terrorism in vietnam. for more information visit mark moyar.com.

atul gawande surgery professor show's tells something as simple he checklist can reduce complications and surgeries. he appeared on c-span's washington journal. this is an hour. >> host: we are going to introduce you to our guest of the morning, dr. atul gawande who is a surgeon and also been inside the debate over public policy on health care for a decade and a half now. he has in the pastored the number of books including a surgeon's notes on performance, complications is surgeons note on imperfect science in his latest book called "the checklist manifesto" how to get things right. we are going to talk to him about that this morning. geren the clinton years he served as senior health policy

advisors with both the campaign in the white house 92 to 93 and you can read him on a fairly regular basis in "the new yorker" so thanks for being here. when did you make the decisions in addition to practicing it would also be involved in health care policy? >> guest: i tried to avoid being a doctor for a while. the son of two indian doctors you naturally are going to become a doctor yourself then i wanted to push against my own inevitable path. and, during that time i got a master's and politics and philosophy and then came to washington and work for jim cooper, a conservative democrat from tennessee. i worked on al gore campaign for president back in 88 and then in '92 came back from medical school which became the thing i kept falling back to because i didn't like depending on working for other people to figure