and they are the traffic was appalling, bumper to bumper. it was deeply frustrating, deeply annoying, and we arrived late. okay, two different alternatives and transportation. airlines, highway system. what's the key difference? highways represent the ultimate in a government monopoly. ..

$100,000 per yard to build. just calculating the interest in the illogic of central and nobody is writing. calculating the interest on the capitol expenditures, themselves or the principal. in terms of interest along every single writer is subsidized

every time he steps on the train to the tune of $140 billion. it will be cheaper to buy people cabs. much cheaper. think how much government money

the big lie that says capitalism is doomed as indicated by our current financial downturn and what's interesting is just in that time since i wrote this

book which was earlier this year, and this moment you're beginning to hear a little bit less about the tomb of capitalism and end of capitalism. michael more's new movie, capitalism a love story, he announced on larry king show of course where the most serious intellectual notions are advanced and promulgated in america every single night. michael moore announced on the larry king show capitalism is over. this economic downturn shows it doesn't work. does anyone remember the one you to forget, newsweek ran a cover story, cover story that said we are all socialists now? do you remember that? it was only a few weeks ago and then "newsweek" came back -- john mechem, who's been a guest on my show several times, editor of newsweek, came back with a commentary. they will discover that says we are all socialists now and then he was railing and conservatives

for suggesting obama is a crypto socialist. excuse me. on the cover of the magazine saying we are socialists now. the idea that cabalism is doomed -- i told this story in the book about a school in berkeley california that actually every year they would have some gift from the graduating eighth grade class. it was an elementary school private exclusive, very progressive school and the gift of the eighth grade class doubles graduating for 2009 was a beautiful mosaic the set on the wall from the other clauses capitalism will fail. and i thought i was very interesting that in this private school where they denounce capitalism will fail as a gift from the eighth grade class was charging tuition with almost no scholarships of 17,000 a year. [laughter] so i'm not sure all of the parents were paying 17,000 a year to see their children

indoctrinating and capitalism are actually looking forward to capitalism failing. looker, the problem of course we've this idea that capitalism is doomed or capitalism will fail is basically clarified if you go away from the media focus. the problem on the media focus is it is always immediate. it's just what is happening right now in this moment. the idea of news it is this moment of to the minute and then you forget things a moment later. if you take a broad focus and look in a 50 year were 30 or even 20 year perspective it is obvious capitalism hasn't failed. what has field has been socialism and communism. i think it's striking "the new york times" today this morning i was reading it on the train which did not arrive on time, amtrak, let's see. in any event i was reading on the train to "new york times" has a review of a new nostalgic

history of communism called "the red flag." and they were basically lamenting the fact communism has all but disappeared in the world except for they say it is like an example of the smallpox virus preserved in the laboratory in cuba and north korea. but that's pretty much it. and if you look at the elections and i cover them in my book the elections in europe for the poor what the socialists call wiped out everywhere. there's only one country in europe that has been moving in a more socialist direction which is greece. and if you look across the continent and anyone can read the polling where the labour party which again is a new labor which is not the old socialist leader of the past, the conservatives and yes, there are new tories and conservatives in britain are resurgent. there are conservative and more friendly to the free-market governments and france and italy and germany and denmark and in

israel where part of my family lives on my father may he rest in peace one to live in israel 19 years ago and my brother made his whole career there. there's been several books that have come out recently about the capitalist revolution in israel stood in the way the past that have always held back the economy and the israeli economy has been a marvel as soon as they were able to lower the tax burdens and punishment burdens of regulation on business and it's been a phenomenal look simple. israel is a country of 7.5 million people. right now have more companies listed on the nasdaq than any other nation in the united states. there are more is really nasdaq companies than japanese, than canadian and british and german than anything. it's extraordinary. capitalism hasn't been shown to fail. capitalism has been shown to work and here in the united states there is a tremendous amount of self pity this of

course encouraged by the victimhood. one of the things on my radio show is the michael medved show where we are proud to say every day i am not a victim the idea of american victimhood suggests our standard of living and difficulties in our choices it's much lower. we can't live the kind of lives our parents live and it's getting worse and everyone has heard this. it is nonsense. robert wright. heritage in this building has some terrific work on this and i quote him extensively in the book. if you actually look at any meaningful measure of living standards in the united states the progress under the capitalist america particularly since 1980 has been dazzling, unprecedented. the options available to people, the extended life expectancy and for college we are now at a stage where the majority of

american young people in every ethnic group are pursuing some form of post high school graduation after they graduate from high school. this is phenomenal. sometimes the education may not be worth what people pay for it. but the fact is one of the reasons that college tuition so tremendously expensive and has gone up more than the cost inflation is because more people want it and can get it. it's extraordinary. in the 1960's barely 10% of americans graduated from college. we are now pushing 30%. that is a huge difference. i will give another example and this is when i was in college back when the earth cooled in the 1960's -- [laughter] -- and i got a part-time top starting my sophomore year the main motivation -- i also want to say i want to learn about the business system. i was a national merit scholar.

my parents helped me and i didn't need the job to pay for tuition or room and board. it was much more resolve them. was covered. i got the job because i had a girlfriend that, in california and i had to pay for from calls and i figured it out at the time i was making minimum wage was at the time was $1.35 an hour, and it took me about three hours of work to pay for five minute phone call. now, think about that for a moment to read any of you who have cellphone plans that are on limited as most people do, the cost of long-distance calls, the cost of air travel, everyone travels by air today, pretty much everyone i can tell you with this debate could flight from san francisco everybody was on it. [laughter] honestly it seemed like there was a -- i don't know, this

seemed like a homeless express traveling from san francisco to philadelphia -- was great. but look, that's america. the truth is more is available to more people than ever before and anyone who doesn't see that added opportunities, comforts, life expectancy, educational opportunities that we have that would have been undreamed of for our parents and grandparents. anyone who doesn't see that is deliberately blind and deaf and limited and embittered. my grandfather was a barrel maker, came from ukraine in 1910. he never stayed in a hotel in his life. why would he? that would be rare for americans. one mother figure i have in my book, people are not going to believe it but it's an offical labor department figure and you know they wouldn't like. labor department in the united states, a typical american family today spends more eating

out and dinners, fast-food restaurants or luxurious restaurants, different kind of restaurants than the family spends on health care. and we spent too much on health care. all right. the idea that capitalism is dead and agree to the reasons why capitalism is not dead and in fact it is very much alive and has been on the march and has been advancing and why so many -- there are literally at least a billion people who were living under tyrannical socialist systems probably more than 3 billion people living under socialist systems account india and china 30 years ago who are now living under something that resembles a free market. capitalism is on the march long dead. it brings to the second biggest lie in this one we don't have to spend so much time on because it is breathtakingly stupid.

people believe -- okey if you believe when the rich get richer the poor get poorer than you believe creating wealth causes poverty. somehow this -- is creating will cause poverty? dolph is not stolen. paul tsongas credit with a stupid line behind every great fortune is a great crime. behind every great fortune is great creativity. the idea is if you look at human beings as infinitely creative, then there is no set amount of wealth to which you are limited creating new wealth doesn't take well away from somebody else. it isn't a zero sum game and by the way this is dramatically illustrated by the recent

downturn. during the recent downturn in the economic crisis, the urban population in dollar amounts and percentage who suffer most for affluent people, the top quintile of the population who have portfolios to see them deflated and again to dispel any one? good, now the rich are suffering. it led people to lose jobs. what do you think happens if your boss is losing money? if your boss is losing money. if he loses his net worth and finds it more difficult to borrow money to keep the business alive what happens to your chance for a raise or your job? it goes away. this idea when they're rich get richer the poor get poorer it is essential marxism that has been repudiated by every historical example and one of the things i do in the book is i go back and look at some of this nostalgic garbage the left used to believe. a look it goes back to a 1921

song called quote code and we got fun" which has become a standard used. there's nothing sure when the rich get richer, and then they play a game and you are expecting them to support it poorer the poor get children and then they play the poor get laid off. i keep banging into this and i shouldn't. but the whole idea of the poverty causing guelph of a zero sum game needs to be rebutted and one of the ways and this is tremendously important people acknowledge this is if you have a materialist world view where there is only so much matter on earth that nothing else could ever be created, matter is neither created nor destroyed, then okay you can believe that there is only so much wealth and it is a question of chopping up the wealth and moving it around, not creating more.

george shaw, who is a smart guy who was only a die-hard socialist said if you rob peter to pay paul you can generally count on the support of paul and that of course is what a great deal of liberalism is based upon, the idea you will rob peter to pay paul and make sure there's enough paul help there to support you. but the notion that is a society's job is to spread around a fixed amount of wealth, to deny the inherent creative power of the individual. and it's basically to look at the world and purely materialistic terms. this is in the bible every one knows man is created in god's image. if man is created in god's image what it means is like god we are infinitely creative. there is no limit for what we can create, no limit to what we can do and that is the american idea that is always animated of economic and political system and that brings me to the big lie number three.

the line number three particularly popular now is the one that says corporate executives are overpaid and corrupt and of course you will find a lot of people even conservatives who will say there are a lot of corporates tickets overpaid. by the need these tremendous bonuses? one of the things you find out when you research the bonuses in the financial and industry and banks and elsewhere is many of these bonuses actually function as commissions. was structured this way basically because governmental interference. because this is basically a tax dodge and another dodge people are paid bonuses and often with stock options because it is a way of avoiding that greedy hand of government. but the point is bonuses function as commissions and even if a company has a terrible losing season you still want to reward those salesmen or representatives doing a good job on a losing team.

for instance people in this country don't understand business but everybody understands sports. people understand baseball in particular. there's people who play fantasy baseball. right here i understand you have a baseball team, well, some people call with a baseball team, the washington nationals, not a very successful corporation. haven't been doing well on the field or off the field. however they have a player named brian zimmerman doing well on the all-star team. those rye ian zimmerman deserve a bonus? he had a great year, he does. and he got one. but he is pleading for a losing team. the nationals were like 200 games behind out of first place. not really. i think it was about 35. they didn't do well. but that doesn't matter. the point is if you have a bonus structure and this has to do directly with wall street bonuses. the basic point here is this

argument that somehow the fact that someone is doing well is going to take away from someone else's is utterly absurd. if your neighbor all of a sudden has a very good year in business and has more money to remodel his house or really and skip the front yard orie a my source car that doesn't hurt you. if all of a sudden you live in a community say a small town and somebody has a business is booming and can create jobs and build a new storefront it doesn't take away from your business it brings more customers, more energy. there is no finite amount of wealth here at the notion that corporal executives or corrupted overpaid some are corrupt but generally and i cite several studies that have been done on this. business success is by and large based on behavior people will describe as virtuous. if you look at the consistent quality is that predictably lead to the business success, quote

the more than any other that leads to business success is focus. the ability to concentrate, to focus, to shut out of the distractions. reliability, hard work, integrity. people who are all over the map who have an intention deficit disorder tend not to function well or succeed in business. business does not create or encourage or promotion vice by and large. is there are bernie madoff's in this world but he's spending the rest of his life and i think several of their lifetimes in prison and this is generally what happens to people who very the iran laws of business success. that exists basically because of a business depends upon is providing people with some service or product they choose. that brings me to the big lie number four. the big line number four says small business is good. big business is bad.

you elated to that in the rossin poll. i have several bits of polling data that suggest small business is among the most popular institutions and trust institutions of america and big business is among the least popular and trusted. this is truly a peculiar. it is peculiar. why? every small business in the country wants to get big. a small business is generally a business that hasn't gotten big yet or a business that hasn't been particularly successful. that is the nature of it. every big business in the country almost without exception started off as a small business. the traditional definition of a small business and big business would surprise a lot of people according to the department of commerce and the department of labor federal statistics does anybody know the standard cost is? how many employees you have to have to be considered a big business? 500 is good for you. that is right. most people would think a business that employs 400 people

was pretty big. or even a business that employes 100 people, think about it. if you employ 100 people you are a big business. this is an arbitrary distinction that is of surt. there are some products and some services to require a big business. i was talking about airlines before. you cannot build airplanes in your garage. if you're going to build the jet aircraft and ask people to risk their lives getting on thin and fly from one place to another it is not going to be able mom and pop operation. this is mom-and-pop airlines we hope to get this puppy up to light. no, you need a big business. there are several things the require economies of scale otherwise you can't compete and do it successfully. you need someone to design the airplane and import the steel and put in the seats and design the interior etc., etc.. and we depend actually, despite the big lie that says small business is so much better.

on things that matter like our health, survival we tend to depend on the business. most hospitals and insurance companies and drug companies, most medical device companies are infinitely the businesses. and it's good that they are. the notion that small business is inherently more effective shows more integrity. do you remember the story that came out earlier this year about a neighborhood cemetery where they were burying the people three bet and using the corpses. it was in the chicago area. a traditional african-american cemetery and emmett till had been buried there. there was a mom-and-pop cemetery. it would be tougher for forest lawn to get away with, some kind of big cemetery business. the truth is the prejudice, the lie that small business is inherently better than the business is sentimental, it is misleading and it's stupid it

leads to abominations' like anti-trust law week. we spend close to call if you want to figure of the costs close to $1 billion a year on antitrust scam. that means your federal government takes your tax money out of your pocket to punish companies that were too successful because that's what antitrust is. anybody remember that wonderful suit against microsoft? this was so important and it was a huge federal focus and joel klein and the clinton administration, there were going to bust bill gates. do you remember what was the receiving about primarily against microsoft? was it microsoft was gouging people by charging too much? microsoft is creating shabby products, some people think they do but what were they suing about? >> [inaudible] >> correct. they were giving people stuff for free. internet explorer. the problem with microsoft is the problem with most antitrust prosecution is the charge too

little. they get people to much, they are giving you two good of the deal. can you imagine we pay as taxpayers this bloated justice department of serve bureaucracy to go after businesses that want to charge too little. and why? we have to protect the open market. you know they had a 16 year pursuit, countless expenditures against ibm because ibm was shutting out competitors in the business. ibm dominates the whole computer business today. right? this is a certain. what happens is yes, you can have companies that will have a short-term prominence and even her dominance. but when you remove regulations and stop antitrust interference the cycle when business is is that for instance if you take a look and i have a list in my

book of the leading computer companies that were in the world at the time of ibm one of them are among the ten leading companies today. the economy turns and changes and the whole waste with antitrust brings me to the fifth and final big lie which is the one that is most involved a few blocks from here on capitol hill and the debate on health care and climate change and everything else and it's the one i hope people can come out of here and particularly armed with material in this book feel energized to rebut and challenging the very that law and some empty field somewhere with a stake through its heart. and it's the big lie that says that you can trust a government to treat people more compassionately, more fairly than does the private sector. the bureaucracies and nonprofits

will more reliably deliver good service to people and everything they and will for-profit corporations. president obama himself expressed something like that. i site in my book a graduation speech he gave arizona, in tempe arizona in the spring of this year. and the president of the united states was addressing himself to business school graduates, people being equipped to go out in the free market system and create wealth and he said many of you will go into our corporate system and follows a well-worn path to your own business and spend but i know also many of you and i hope more of you will take a higher taft and involve yourself in the nonprofit sector. ahh! this is insanity. what is good about not making a profit? seriously. think about this for a moment. the nonprofit sector? where is the non-profit sector

preferable to the for-profit sector? and this goes directly to this in same of session with a public option. the idea that guess we will have a much better insurance company if it is done on a nonprofit basis by the government. that works well. works out well with light rail and the dmv. where would you rather wait in line for service? local starbucks or local department of motor vehicles? i mean, come on and there's a reason because at your local starbucks the have to smile and be nice and give you what you want or your mog me to come back but you have no choice of coming back to the department of motor vehicles or they put you in jail. the problem with the nonprofit sector meaning the government sector is the only give you one which place. obey or go to jail. that is the basic choice the government offers the citizens. every once in a couple of years you get a chance to make a group decisions and throw the bums out until the new bombs give the

same choice, obey or go to jail. and the difficulty -- the contrast with the private sector is very direct. you make business decisions every day and have almost limitless array of choices. go to an american supermarket today. you don't like some of the junk food and then on and nourishing food, the health organics sections now. that's the response to the marketplace. you didn't need the government to declare we are not going to prepare -- i'm not sure organic the troubles are worth it. i'm not -- but some people believe it. it's available and in the market made and dysfunctions remarkably well. if you look -- look, talk for a moment, non-profit versus profit-making sector, talk a moment about education. do you think it is an accident that private schools, catholic parochial schools in particular that spend far less per student

than the public schools in washington, d.c., and i know the chancellor is trying to make things better in washington. i know it's happening. but the public schools in washington, d.c. spend twice, three times as much per pupil as some of the inner-city catholic schools with worse results. ..

anybody who believes they are created with taxpayer support, one of the insanities of the obama administration is i don't know if you've heard that we have that the state, right. it's a $1.24 trillion this year. it is a nightmare in the obama administration provide maybe 20% increase in funding for the national for the arts. try to imagine what kind of person and as he says i to listen to music. i want to go to place. i want to read books that are government supported. i mean, first of all, none of the most popular or esteemed or worthwhile work would fall into that category. the truth is the profit system works better because the profit system encourages good behavior and morality.

and i conclude my book with that argument. if you are in business to make a profit, you must take other people into account. you can't order them around. you can't disregard them. you will lose money. i conclude the book with a little chapter called lemonade in the book, which is about eliminate stand or my neighborhood. what is it about the lemonade stand that everybody gets a warm smile about, little kids, isn't the fact that the kids are making some money? fifty cents here, 1 dollar here to get called lemonade on a hot day. no, it's the building of relationships. that's the athens untracked essence of what a free market does. it connects people. it connects people in webs of mutual benefit. there's a quote i found that i love and i want to leave you

with if you don't mind. it was from one of the richest americans who ever lived. and somebody who manage to give away people estimate now two thirds of all of the literally billions from if you put it in today's dollars, based year and is one of the people who created the modern steel industry. maybe if he stayed around he could have saved the steel industry, who knows. but in 1896, carnegie looking back on his life to a little piece for a kids magazine called youth's companion. and she wrote a piece about the first dollar he never earned at age 12. and he actually saved that dollar. and carnegie wrote, i cannot tell you how proud i was when i received my first week's own earnings. $1.20 made by myself and given to me because i had been of some

use in the world. no longer entirely dependent on my parents, but at last admitted to the family partnership as a country but a number and able to help them. i think this makes a man out of a boy sooner than on most anything else. in the real man, too. if there be any german two-man type. it is everything to feel that you are useful. making a profit, earning money, getting paid to give people something that they want and that they choose is to feel useful. and it is the greatest joy in our country and our nations future. thank you very, very much for your attention. [applause] >> absolutely, yes.

>> questions, comments? arguments, quibbles? i saw some people shaking their heads with displeasure. >> owl malik and, what other changes have you found out about the way liberal arts colleges have dealt towards businesses in recent years as opposed to the past? >> , liberal arts colleges have been by and large hostile to business for a very long time. this is nothing new. this goes back inside to the 1960's and even to some extent the 1950's. before then, in one of the things that has happened. there've actually been a number of books written about this is the sources of funding for private colleges and universities have changed. and private colleges and universities are far more competitive than our government today than they used to be. as you know, there used to be only two small liberal arts

colleges to refuse government aid. one is the general college of the michigan which has had some connection with the heritage foundation and the college of ad-libbing appeared all the other ones take some kind of form of governmental federal assistance. they all do. and the percentage of money that is paid by government is extraordinarily high. now, what does that create? that creates a situation in which you were on the nonprofit side of this divide. and by the way, i think it operates the same way with the things operate during those words i worked for public tv. there are very good things about pbs, by the way. i don't want to tonight and every once in a while they do something beautiful and worthwhile. i think some pieces are wonderful pieces of intelligence. i was glad i was created with corporate underwriting. but the sense that people had on

public tv i think it's common to the sense people have been most colleges and numerous is, both public and private. which is where smart, you are good, we are beautiful, we earn less than other people and therefore were entitled to endowments. and there is a sense of the virtue of the nonprofit the is bad because i get paid less that means i am better than someone else who makes more. i would argue that logically and empirically you can make a case that the fact that one earns less money is not a sign of superior virtual product dvd. [inaudible] [laughter] >> it is not situation in that

regard. [inaudible] >> one additional -- [inaudible] which is fighting the ecstasy on one hand and is now a resort for health care command. ugo finds and even at one point the climate change. why is it that this antibusiness is and is there anyway to deal with that? >> yeah, look at the great question. did everyone hear that? okay, i think the basic thing here is that in business you tend to look up after your self-interest. and given the huge power and huge intrusiveness of government

today, it does make sense that many business -- and this is why the entire i share the repulsion that the corruption involved with the lobbying world. but i've a different view of it. i don't blame business for lobbying and spending literally billions of dollars every year lobbying for advantage in the governmental system. if the government is going to pick winners and losers on the you better darn well make sure that they don't put you on the list of losers or corporate criminals. or dismantle your operation and throw you into jail or do something terrible to you. they have been forced to play ball. i think that all of a sudden if you begin changing the size of government and reducing the tremendous intrusiveness and the tremendous unprotect adventures of myth of government on so many levels that all of a sudden you would see that business would become more pro-business than it

is. and basically it's like paying protection. i mean, i think that that's part of what you certainly see with this health care situation, which is why so many big health care companies and insurance companies that thought ferociously against hillary care. this time they determined that the thing was inevitable. i don't think it is inevitable, by the way. it still is not inevitable. and they thought the thing was inevitable and they better play along to make sure that their own particular ox is an chord in me while recognizing that certain point you do reach a tipping point with the business receives such a tremendously heavy hand of regulation and interference that it's virtually impossible to win back. mr. swanson? >> michael, what are american elementary school children being taught about money, economics, the market? are they being taught anything at all? are they being taught the wrong lessons, right lessons? >> they are being taught only wrong lessons.

and about almost everything in american history. one of the things that appalls meniscus back to the last but. it is now common in elementary school curriculum to teach and to learn to lie about small house blankets. that americans deliberately affect smallpox blankets. i spent many pages in detecting lies about america. this never happened. this is all based on three letters that were exchanged, not by americans but for by british officers during the pun extra billion. and it was speculating, wouldn't it be nice if we could affect them and these hideous savages because they were in the midst of being killed. but there is no evidence that there was during pontiac's rebellion that there was no for dearborn no evidence whatsoever that there was actually any blankets that were given to people or that there was any

kind of epidemic or any kind of infection or any kind of disease that would spread at that point. now going back to what kids are being taught about business, whether being taught about business is that business got too big and made people poor and integral to the came cayman the trust and business got big again and then people got poor again and then franklin roosevelt had to come in and save them. i think that a great deal of this. look, i am all about spending more time in learning american history. the one of the terrible, terrible things is that people in high school but i know you're asking about elementary schools are written in howard's end people history of the united states, which is a tissue of lies about the country. and among those lies are the notions of the growth of business makes people poor. no recognition of what henry ford did -- i'm not a huge fan

of henry ford. i am jewish and he was a world-class anti-semi. however, he'd changed the world vastly for better giving ordinary people the ability to buy a car. and a lot of people go on vacations, a lot of weekends off. it's incalculable the gift that was provided there. and virtually every guest that has allowed the middle-class lifestyle for better or worse to emerge with the limitless choices that middle-class people have is got to be because of the creative ability of businesses eared there is no less than of any kind of that nature and i write in the book that you can go through the typical classes that people have or even the holidays that they celebrate. we celebrate holidays and little kids learn about holidays. they never learn that the pilgrims were part of the corporation. they were sent here to make a profit, so are the people of

jamestown. do we have time for a few more questions? yes, the lady here appears to mac hi my name is emily. i would just like to say i think you're a very charming man, but i'm quite concerned the retrospect you are spewing is sort of a symbol of this corruption and manipulation of the catholic system you all protect, essentially you coming against these lies that the rich get richer, the poor get poorer and you're completely just drawing out the window to keypoint, the reality that we have in the uk at any rate an increase of poverty update protected by what you call the greedy hand of government, what i call the minimum wage, employment. you reject the importance of nonprofit organizations and you say places like starbucks, i have a freedom. if i go to starbucks and i say i don't like the way that they

manipulate people in other countries around the world to provide me for my cup of coffee. and i say i'm not going to go to starbucks anymore. starbucks doesn't care. >> are you aware that starbucks has invested $600 million a global responsible initiative? you can go into starbucks now and ask for fair trade coffee, which is coffee where it is done together with greenpeace, which is one of the sponsored organizations. starbucks is a very left wing company. it's a perfect example. starbucks has responded to the public to save a certain number of customers who want that kind of insurance. you can go in and pay 20 cents extra per cup of coffee and honestly starbucks is right on the road from where i lived the corporate headquarters and they've spent literally hundreds of millions of dollars on this new initiative to try to address the social justice of broad concerns of their customers. >> i do have a question.

not so much a response. essentially, you know you kind of -- there is a lot of concern that people are now criticizing the ideology of capitalism because of the crisis in people saying capitalism is dead and i agree with you. sadly, it's alive and well. the thing is that surely it's a sign not of the capital system in the big business corporation culture that we have in america and around the world is becoming more affluent. it's more a sign that people aren't buying any more. people don't notice that when we have an economic crisis the bank still get their bows this is. as you said, the bosses don't lose their job. it's the other people. people noticed about business and profit reservation is about is about self-interest, self-serving people who come from privileged backgrounds and what to entrench their privileges. so my question is, surely the sign that it's not the same that we have feelings in society where the media is buying

against capitalism. it's a sign that actually the reality that it is self-serving and doesn't help people. that's the reality that it's now coming out. >> okay, can i just ask you one question back here at you said that unfortunately capitalism is alive and well. what system do you think is demonstrated better functioning on behalf of say poor people? [inaudible] >> i'm not going to -- >> because of capitalism were not alive and well we would be living under what kind of system that works better for poor people? >> one that is essentially so if i could rule the world i would invent something that takes into consideration things that we both agree on for instance the amazing fact that i've arrived in america yesterday on an airplane.

you know, technical innovation is amazing. >> that's because you're such a privileged background. >> i do. and essentially what the plan is is to take the fact that people have a right to make people kind of promote their own interests. but they also have a responsibility to feed that tack. >> one of the things that i hope you'll take a look at is there is a great deal of material created right here at the heritage foundation. one of the things that heritage does every year that a feature in my book and it is the index of world economic indicators. it is extraordinary because if you take a look at gross domestic product and you take a look at the state of poor people everywhere. poor people do better the more that nations move in the

direction of free markets. let me give you the two most powerful examples in the world. india and china. both india and china have incorporated and abandon their socialist past and their communist past on the other and put into operation the idea of private property and private profit. and yes, people looking out after their own self-interest. what i would argue to you is that it is not evil or rotten for people to look out after their own self-interest. it's beautiful. it's exactly what our country is about and what your country has been about. napoleon put on great britain as a nation of shopkeepers as if there was some kind of an insult. in the shopkeepers actually taught a lesson to his french fried reruns. reran. they did so based upon the notion that it is not vicious, not selfish, not evil to want a better life for yourself and for your family.

and by creating a better life for yourself and your family and this brings them back to something you said at the very beginning of your little statement. and by creating a better life for yourself and family you are helping the people around you. the notion that there is a greater wealth gap in the uk today than in the past is not a reflection on the fact that a poor are worse off in the uk. they emphatically are not by every measure. >> it's not a reflection of the system of big business -- >> it is totally a reflection of that because the truth of the matter is yes you are right there are people on top or doing much much better. but when people on top do better, people on bottom do better as well. they may not be going up as quickly. if you look at the way the people the poor live in our country or in your country. when people were poor like my grandparents were during the depression, they were really poor. they had food insecurity. they did not have enough to eat. they did not have enough to pay

for heating bills. today and again robert wright or has done tremendous work in this building on this issue. typical farmland money on at least two dvd players. they own cars or 40% of poor households own homes. the way the poor people live in the united states today is more luxurious with more physical comforts and opportunities and middle-class people had in the united states in the 50's. let me take two more questions and then will close. yeah right, there is a far bigger obesity problem among poor people in our country then there is a hunger problem. >> hi, i'm chris. i'm surprised i actually did agree with lots of what you said, even though i do it disagree with something. i want to ask what you said about the antitrust and that you said that antitrust is actually

not very important. >> no, no big it's not important. i think it's horribly distressed at what i think is evil. i don't think we should be empowering government to go after companies because they are too successful. >> okay. would you not agree that -- i mean, in line with minds dream that monopolies create dead weight loss and supply being restricted and consumers facing higher prices. soviets and antitrust and antitrust is to make sure that monopolies are not created to make sure overlay of welfare is larger. would you not agree that antitrust does help in romance? >> i would not. i don't really know the history of the antitrust in the uk. i knew a great deal about the history of antitrust in the united states and it has always been a disaster. usually for good intentions they will take off after some

company. and one of the things that is fascinating is one of the problems with general motors, right, which they deeply troubled american corporation -- and i have this in the book. alfred p. sloan who was the longtime and creator of general motors isn't on moderation of the auto companies was terrified that they were going to go after gm with an antitrust case because chena one-time believe it or not used to command the majority of the world's automotive sales. isn't that amazing when you think about it today? and so he deliberately did not fight back in an aggressive way when the japanese invasion began, the japanese cars and others. and there is evidence that this was quite deliberate to avoid having to deal with antitrust prosecution. antitrust distorts everything. there's a famous court case involving the u.s. steel case, which was another antitrust prosecution that to kill the steel business and really did

help to kill the spill business in the united states. the idea that justice douglas talks about in the curse of bigness that there is a curse of bigness for a business to get big. it's a very negative idea. and the notion -- you see the full theory of monopolies, which was very much accepted in the 19th century. in a world economy, global economy, with trade barriers low were in my work god willing and they also make a case with that. and with technological and a patient being what it is, the possibility of a classical monopoly to dominate any one sold a bill as he sued the case of ibm and all the idiotic antitrust resources that were lavished on a prosecution. last question. lady right here. >> hi, alison miller. i don't know if you've mentioned this and maybe this book or "the

10 big lies about america," the one thing i noticed and please tell me if you agree with this or not. some think that without nonprofits on these organizations that amazes me because i just went to new york over thanksgiving weekend and noticed that the gallery to my left as i was walking was named after chevrontexaco. did you talk about any of this in terms of corporation -- anybody mention this thing with starbucks and the free trade, the coffee and all that. do you mention any of this as far as what corporations do, their charitable giving? >> i do. i'm mentioned in this book into a certain extent in the book previous. and this book considerably. when you talk about supporting the arts, just to talk for a moment about public television which i know something about. and public television, about 14% of the total budget of public television, including the stations all around the country is paid for by government at

different levels. about 35% of the cost of public television is paid for by a corporate donor. corporations that support public tv far more than the government does. the arts in the united states or a flourishing business. and one of the things that is running is that if you take a look at the people who attend classical music concerts and opera performances, right. you'll think a very rarefied small group. if you take the number of people who go every year to a classical music concert or a chamber music concert or opera performance and pay money for it. it is a larger number than all the people who attend a football, professional football, baseball, or basketball game in this country. now if you start putting in nascar, it's more people. [laughter] but it's stunning. the arts are flourishing in the united states. we have in this country

nationwide london has peerless orchestrates. but here in the united states and in small cities and yesterday an economic downturn a lot of those orchestras have been in trouble and in fact have cut back. their suffering. but the truth is these are institutions that buy in larger supported by corporate largess. the whole idea of creating wealth is if you like the good days, if you like ways, if you like concerts, if you like painting, if you like sculptures am if you like beautiful homes. none of this can exist unless wealth is created and accumulated. and then used wisely by people who actually want to support it. the government idea of great artistic expression usually tends to be -- one of the reasons -- one of the things that is so peculiar about the arts was created in 1967 by president johnson. and if you look at the record of

great artistic achievement in the united states since 1967, i think they're a very commits are a few of those achievements that people would associate with federal funding and the nea. i greatly appreciate people coming out today. have you got to speak with you for a few minutes. got to sign any copies of this book or to answer any questions that you might have. thank you for being part of this audience and part of this occasion and thank you for interest and support for heritage foundation. [applause] >> thank you, michael. i do have to say if anyone wants more information on antitrust what is called an incredible machine that puts it in just a perfect way seemed that there is free will on antitrust you need to pay attention to. don't charge too much that's prior to coaching. don't charge to the left predatory pricing. at all costs don't charge the same, but collusion. if you can only get one b