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>> and assisted in paving the way for future african-american political leadership. peniel joseph profile thes several of the movements including paul robeson. he discusses his book with kevin merida, national editor of "the washington post." >> host: welcome to booktv's "after words." we're talking to tough university history professor peniel joseph who has a very compelling new book out, "dark days, bright nights: from black power to barack obama." welcome professor joseph. >> guest: thank you. >> host: tell me what that title means. that's a very intriguing title. >> guest: well, the title really talks about, refers to where black people have come from in this country really from the dark days ofve

segregation and jim crow all the way to having the first african-american president. >> host: you, it was kind of a little ditty during the campaign that went viral, and you mention it early on in the book, and it goes rosa sat so martin could walk so that barack could run so that your children could fly. and that became kind can of a catch phrase toward the end, particularly among african-americans. you cite this and say that as motionally powerful as these words may be, they make for poor history. explain that. >> guest: absolutely. the whole notion of rosa parks has become this iconic trope in the story of the civil rights movement. and it's really a period that i like to call the heroic period of the civil rights movement. what i mean by that is may 17, 1954 to august 6, 1965, and that

encompasses the period from the brown desegregation court decision all the way to the signing of the voting rights act by lyndon johnson. and in between what we're told both as students and as a nation in terms of the popular imagination is that there's all kinds of sit-ins and marchs and demonstrations that occur, but they're really done by these famous iconic people. basically, it's rosa parks who just was so tired that she refused to get up from the bus in montgomery, alabama, and sparked the busboy cot, and basically a young preacher who even the president referred to during the election as this young preacher from georgia which is dr. martin luther king jr. who sort of leads the masses of african-americans from racial oppression. so this notion that rosa sat and, you know, martin could do this stuff and jesse could run and then barack could fly, all these things, they sound good, but they really, they really

simplify a much more complicated history. and that complicated history really involves so many african-americans, women and men, who proactively dismantled racial segregation including rosa parks. rosa parks was an activist. she didn't just refuse to give up her seat by accident, it was a concerted, strategic effort to try to transform democratic institutions. so the lesson that we have to impart to our kids and to the nation is this isn't just something that happens by accident by these iconic figures like a dr. martin luther king jr. who come down from on high and help the rest of us. i mean, that was really a debate during the election because remember hillary clinton had said during the election, well, even though martin luther king jr. was important, it took a president to sign the voting rights act because that's after when then-senator obama kept invoking dr. king. he kept invoking dr. king and

the fierce urgency of now. and then-senator clinton said, wait, hold up a minute, it took a president to sign that bill. so she was invoking this focus that, look -- notion, that, look, our politics are still run in this top-down way. her point was that you still needed a president to transform this institution, transform this nation. and really i think that the most transformative parts of our history, especially when we think about the civil rights movement and the black power movement and these social movements of the 1960s and '70s and the postwar period, it's really ordinary people who transform this period. it's really sharecroppers, seamstresses, people who are in prisons and students. it's regular people who then converge with these figures who come iconic. >> host: you know, one of the things i loved about your book was just the complexity of it and how you have taken the history of african-americans and

really drawn a complex portrait, particularly of the iconic figures that you cite. you know, martin luther king jr., for instance, you know, also was a critic of racism, and he protested against the vietnam war and called attention to urban and rural poverty, and he had a different actual life than often is described and remembered as kind of this figure the who, you know, somehow gave this great i have a dream speech, but there was some hard edge parts of dr. king's portfolio. >> guest: that's an important point. and especially one worth mentioning. we're about to celebrate dr. king's birthday, january 18th. dr. king has really been shorn of his complexity and really his radical edge. i mean, king is one of the most vociferous critics of american

democracy. he describes america as the piggest purveyor of violence in the world by 1967. and we have to take note that his riverside speech april 4, 1967, in new york city when he first comes out against the vietnam war in a very robust, public way is given one year to the date before he's assassinated in memphis. so when we think about king tweps between 1965 and '68, even two years before riverside, by the time king is going to chicago, and he's in chicago to try to transform the slums. he talked about a slum clearance campaign and desegregate housing in chicago, he's talking about poverty. he's talking about economic marginalization of poor people, laborers. king makes a very famous speech where he talks about all labor has dignity which is one of his last speeches in 1968. king's poor peoples campaign is something we shunt aside as well. we really keep dr. king frozen on august 28, 1963, with the i

have a dream speech right here in washington, d.c., and we don't think about the king who was really much more combative. even though he was nonviolent because king believed that you could use nonviolence as a moral and political force, really a battering ram to transform democracy. so it wasn't that king was not combative. he was very combative. the difference between king and even some of his african-american critics was that he didn't believe that violence was acceptable politically or morally. >> host: and, you know, it also was true that king wasn't -- everybody embraces him now, but back in the time even among african-americans a lot of people didn't want him coming in to their towns and neighborhoods because when he left, he made life more difficult for many of those who had to stay behind. >> guest: absolutely. i mean, when we think about king and the scfs, the southern christian leadership conference, they are the premiere mobilizers of the civil rights movement. they're not grassroots

organizers in contrast to the student nonviolent coordinating committee which was led by carmichael and in an earlier incarnation by lewis. king goes to birmingham, places like albany the, georgia, memphis, tennessee, and he really stirs things up. very, very combative. demanding dozens of things from mayor daley in chicago in 1965-'66. really an early version of affirmative action for the city, and he really precipitates fear and loathing among the white population, but also among certain black power brokers who have their own relationship with city hall and mayor daley, and they look at king as really this outsider who's really upsetting the delicate balance of power be in their own city. >> host: let me pause this conversation a bit just to ask you what compelled you to write this book?

>> guest: well, i was really, really transformed and impacted by the 2008 election, and in a way what i wanted to do was really connect the election results with my own work on post-war african-american history, especially the civil rights and black power movements. i think one of the least reported stories of the election was the impact that black power radicalism had on the nation in terms of transforming the nation enough to elect the first black president. when we talked about obama during the 2008 election, most people talked about civil rights, including the then-senator obama. in fact, one of his most famous speeches was in 2007 commemorating selma and the demonstrations that occurred in march 1965 that really culminated in the passage of the voting rights act several months later. and famously, king and others are really turned away from the

edmund pet decision bridge, there's going to be a lot of violence against those demonstrators. john lewis is going to be brutally beaten. it's really one of the iconic images of the civil rights era. and what obama said, senator obama said then at that speech was that the new generation of civil rights activists were the joshua generation. he called dr. king's generation the moses generation, and it was really the joshua generation. people like him who were going to see the promised land. so he really put himself directly as an heir and beneficiary of that civil rights movement. now, in contrast we really never talked as a nation about black power during the election, and when we did, it was only in a negative context connected to the reverend wright and racial controversies. one of the things i wanted to show and argue in this book was that the black power movement even though it was a very combat ty the movement -- combative movement, forceful in its criticism of segregation, of

racism, of american democracy, it really did lay the foundations alongside of that civil rights movement where transforming this nation to have the first black president. >> host: you write that the black power movement remains the most misunderstood social movement of the post-war era. >> guest: absolutely. when we think about black power in the popular imagination still, we usually think of black power as a movement of violent gun-toting black panthers and others, a movement that was anti-white, a movement that really dragged down more successful counterparts, namely civil rights for social justice. so basically, a movement that practiced politics without portfolio. and the civil rights movement's evil twin that wrecked dr. king's dream of a beloved community. when we look at what occurred empirically, black power really grows out of the same historical

context that produces civil rights. it's really growing out of early 20th century african-american activism, people like marcus garby, hubert harrison, the harlem renaissance. and in its post-war context, it's growing out of the activism of malcolm x and the nation of islam, but also secular radicals like james and grace lee bogs. james baldwin and lo rain hasn't berry. black power's got a very secular side to it, and it's a side that people don't discuss. one of the most interesting aspect of studying the black power movement is the way in which there's an intellectual, social, political, cultural component. so on one score black power activists try to transform crick can lumbar in high schools and colleges, on another they try to transform african-american consciousness through cultural centers, through poetry and

prose. on another score they try to push for anti-poverty and welfare rights. so when we think about black power in our popular conception, we don't think of black women being at the forefront of that movement, but black women really were some of the key activists in that movement. and not just the iconic figures like angela davis and kathleen cleaver who were very important, but also poor black women who were welfare rights activists in places like durham, north carolina, baltimore, maryland, in places like philadelphia. so certainly black women participated in that movement in organizations like snic and organizations like the black panthers, but for the most part more black women and black people participated just in ad hoc grassroots organizations. both on university campuses and especially off campuses in the 1960s and '70s. >> host: you mentioned a number of people who were kind of in the shadows. i'm going to take kind of as a

personal note to cite one, william worthy, who turns out was a adviser to our black student newspaper at boston university when i was a student there, and we found it, and bill worthy was there. you mentioned him in another, in a number of instances where he was one of those people kind of in the, in the forefront of among the african-american radicals, got to know malcolm x and played a role as an african-american journalist, i believe the first one to go into china when you couldn't go to china. >> guest: absolutely. william worthy is a great example of some of these unsung heros of this period. bill worthy was worn in 1921 -- born in 1921, he's one of the key radical black journalists of the 1950s and '60s. he goes into the sow yet union -- soviet union in the late 1940s, he goes into china in the 1950s, he's one of the key black journalists who's in

cuba during the cuban revolution, he's a friend and ally of malcolm x. his key domestic idea is something called the freedom now party, and it's really going to be one of three black independent political parties in the 1960s. one is the freedom now party, the other is the mississippi freedom democratic party led by fannie hamer, sharecropper from mississippi who was not allowed to be seated at the 1964 democratic national convention in atlantic city, new jersey, and the other is going to be the allowances county freedom organization which is nicknamed the black panther party, and that is started with grassroots locals with the help of snic activists. and when we think about william worthy, worthy's very interesting because he's a plaque power activist who's also a pacifist and actually went to jail in world war ii for refusing to fight in the war,

but worthy wants a foreign policy based on human rights. way before president jimmy carter talks about a foreign policy based on human rights, william worthy was talking about this. and worthy is one of the people who is part of the robeson generation. i call the robeson generation the group of activists who come of age during the prime political time of paul robeson who's really the key african-american political and cultural figure of the 1930s and '40s and '50s who's going to be the really marginalized by the cold war. between 1951 and 1958, paul robeson's passport is revoked, and he's not going to be able to earn a living outside of the country because of his left wing beliefs. robeson never joins the communist party of the united states of america but certainly is very sympathetic to marxism and communism, and he's going to really suffer because of that. but worthy's extraordinary extraordinary, and he provides us a different genealogy of

black power. people like william worthy, goya richardson who was the activist from cambridge, maryland, who really was called the lady general of the civil rights movement who waged an unprecedented struggle in 196 3 and '64 who met with attorney general robert kennedy to sign a peace accord in the early 1960s but also goes to malcolm x's november grassroots leadership conference in detroit where malcolm delivers his famous message to the grass roots where he really lays out a secular vision of a domestic, national but also an international, global political revolution. >> host: you write that malcolm can x was nothing less than the civil right's era's invisible man. >> guest: well, absolutely. in the terms of the way in which historians view malcolm x, malcolm is not part of that heroic period of the civil rights movement. he usually only pops up around

1963, '64, and he really only serves as a foil to dr. king. he's more characterized or caricaturized as this prophet of rage who's not a brilliant political strategist, who's not a local and national political organizer, and who's not really one of the most important figures of the post-war period. >> host: and as you note that back in the '50s he's probably the most important political grassroots organizer in holland. >> guest: absolutely. malcolm x is rereesed from prison -- released from prison in 1952 after serving six years for bar ri. he trans-- burglary. he transforms himself to malcolm x, he come cans out of prison, and he works a number of different odd jobs while also working as a muslim minister. in 1954 he's opening up the mosque in philadelphia, but he also becomes the head of muslim

mosque number seven on west 116th street in harlem. and right away malcolm becomes the key muslim, black muslim figure in the entire group. the group goes from a group that has several hundred when he joins in the late 1940s, early '50s to over 100,000 by the time he leaves the group. when he's really the most active in the group, he leaves the nation of islam by 1964, he transforms that group from a sectarian group to a secular group. he really transforms a group that is not on anyone's radar to a group that's really considered by the fbi to be one of the leading sub subversive groups ie country can, and by 1959 there's a mike wallace documentary, news beat, five parts in the summer of 1959, that hate produced, that makes malcolm and the

nation national and international figures. >> host: louis low max. >> guest: the key african-american reporter of the 1950s and '60s before his untimely death. he's one of the key black journalists who interviews malcolm, but also becomes an expert on the nation of islam. >> host: yeah. you know, one of the things about malcolm and all those things are true that you said, but there was a kind of raw language that would just kind of a sering, piercing, he would say these things. here's something, you know, a quote during a press conference, and he was, obviously, somebody who thought that american democracy was just not equipped to protect black americans, and that was not, you know, made for african-americans at the time the. but at a press conference in washington, d.c., he said, if anyone sets a dog on a black man, the black man should kill

that dog whether he is a four-legged dog or a two-legged dog. [laughter] that's hard to say in public. i'm sure at that time, and just maybe you could kind of put that in perspective. i mean, even today we don't get, you know, important african-american leaders standing up staying things like that. >> guest: absolutely. one of malcolm's most important characteristics was the ability to speak truth to power. and he's really going to be probably the most eloquent radical critic of american democracy during the post-war period. malcolm also is bold enough to criticize president kennedy for not acting proactively enough in birmingham, alabama. what's interesting when we study malcolm x and we look at him, malcolm really serves as a counterpart to king but in a way that people usually don't think of. they usually think of him as a counterpart to king as the good black man and malcolm's the bad,

nasty, anti-white black man. no. malcolm's a counterpart -- same thing that king can't say very boldly in a very confrontational manner, but that actually gives king room to negotiate. and gives not just king, but also roy wilkins and whitney young of the urban league to negotiate because people are looking at malcolm as being so extreme because of his robust create schism of american democracy and american politicians, but also against the politics of white supremacy that he gives these other civil rights leaders room to maneuver. but this whole notion, the quote that you take from, malcolm had a great gift of speaking to ordinary people. jimmy baldwin, the great african-american writer, the genius writer of the 1960s and '70s, has often said that malcolm had such a love for african-american people that he spoke to them in the language that they understood. and one of the reasons malcolm was able to so effectively

communicate with african-americans is that he was really from the black working class. i mean, malcolm had been hanging out with hustlers, he was in rocksberry, he was in detroit, he was in harlem. before he becomes a muslim mosque minister in harlem, he was selling people illegal substances in harlem, right? so malcolm knew how ordinary, everyday people in harlem, how black people felt. he knew how african-american culture in barber shops, in beauty shops, he understood the african-american church. not just the nation of islam, but the black church as well. so when we think about malcolm x, he become bees a very singularly important figure but not just as some kind of prophet of rage or some kind of icon, he's actually an important grassroots local organizer, and not just in new york, but in detroit and in chicago and in other places as well. >> host: and long after his death he had become enough of an

american figure to get a stamp, postage stamp. [laughter] >> guest: certainly. there's certainly a rehabilitation of malcolm x that has occurred over the last let's say 20 years. we start with spike lee's film, malcolm x, in 1992. the reissue of the autobiography and also the stamp. but even barack obama in barack obama's autobiography dreams from my father, he expresses admiration for malcolm x. he says he admired malcolm's self-determination and ability to recreate himself. so when we think about malcolm x, malcolm x is really the quintessential self-made african-american man of the post-war period. >> host: and embraced regardless of where you lie on the ideological spectrum, i'm reminded that justice clarence thomas also embraced malcolm x and had the collected recordings of malcolm x and found something important in malcolm x's

theories himself. >> guest: absolutely. i think conservatives really admire malcolm x's notion of boot strap pulling. pull yourself up by your boot straps, political self-determination and this whole notion that malcolm would also say that black people had to do for themselves, right? malcolm in the nation of islam in their parlance refused handouts from the white man. so conservatives would definitely find that something that was a great attribute. >> host: another important figure in your book and you devote considerable space, chapter, stokely carmichael. >> guest: yeah. i believe he's one of the most important african-american political activists of the post-war period and certainly the civil rights and black power period. he is going to be the a key civil rights activist who becomes a black power icon. and what i mean by that is that stokely is really one of the only black power figures who had

also been a civil rights organizer in the deep south. he's from the caribbean, he's born in trinidad june 29, 1941, emigrates to the united states two weeks before his 11th birthday in 1952. he lives in the bronx, he's one of the only african-american students who tests into bronx science high school in 1956. and that's one of the most prestigious high schools in new york city. even as a high school student he's an act activist. by 1960 he enrolls at howard university and joins the nonviolent action group at howard which is a friend of snicc, and really at 19 years old stokely carmichael becomes a freedom rider, goes down south and is arrested in mississippi and spends 49 days in parchment farm, mississippi's worst prison farm. and he really celebrates his 20th birthday in prison for civil rights activity, and

that's going to be the first of 27 arrests between 1961 and 1966. what's really important about stokely carmichael and that i try to convey in this book is that carmichael is one of the few americans domestically during the 1960s who actually bleeds for democracy. what i mean by that is undergoes physical terror and violence at the hands of hate groups and really domestic terrorists in places like the mississippi delta the, in louns county, alabama, in cambridge, maryland, in washington, d.c. to promote voting rights and citizenship rights for all african-americans. >> host: you know, i want to get into -- we're getting close to our break time, and i want to get into some contemporary thoughts and get your opinion on what's happening now in the current scene. but we'll be back in a couple of minutes, and then we can talk about curre

bit. >> guest: absolutely. >> "after words" and several other c-span programs are available for downloads as podcasts. more in a moment. >> abigail adams had to remind john adams to remember the ladies when creating a new government. dolly madison had to encourage her once-shy husband, james. this weekend on "after words," the intimate lives of the founding fathers. thomas fleming profiles the women who played a central part in creating our country. part of this weekend's booktv on c-span2.it peniel joseph and kevin merida continues. >> host: welcome back to booktv's "after words." we're talking with professor peniel joseph, tough university history professor.

and has welcome to washington post live weekend. ahead. we'll look back at the raider's tough loss to the colts. where they are going next. and a look at the local teams. and cathy griffin gives us a take on tiger woods. you don't want to miss that. there was an exit out of the playoffs. we weighed in on what the ravens need to do to make it back to the big game in the top

headline. the win in new orleans, a lot of optimism then they went to played out the way i expected. they were not blown out. and could not produce the better team won. how do you wrap up the season if you look at it big-picture wise. >> theynded up where you thought -- they ended up where you thought they would be. they are fighting to get into a civil rights organization. and in that speech he really does a couple of things. one, he critiques african-americans who aren't doing the right thing, people who aren't taking care of their kids, who aren't, you know, promoting education for their kids, but he also acknowledges that racism is still acorner position if they get a big time corner which is a stopper, that can change a lot. they're a solid team. solid foundation. >> and the making big plays

down the field something we saw all year. and with respect to derek mason. clayton has not been that guy. they could not hurt anybody. >> that's right and your offense changes if you have a deep threat. ma that. of ll e team

had. you have a good nfl quarterback. it is never too early to handicapping your favorite basketball team. get insights before the madness starts. washington post live weekend returns.

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it is january you can feel the madness intensifying to the surprising cavs and this area is booming. and breaking down the area teams. you know hoops in the area you grew up around here. virginia is doing it and we'll see about maryland. this is hard to beat. >> no question. and i think they have a chance to make the tournament, that will make it happy.

i owe it. >> and a couple with the terps and to help themselves, they got cincinnati and wisconsin in the early season tournament and a lot to william and mary. it's not that bad. how do they shake it up. what do they do in conference play to catch it? >> in my opinion they have to win some games and more pornly, ivan, all of the teams that you mentioned, they were opportunities that maryland had to gain a quality win they could not convert them so at some point i'm a believer in my amateur, you know, bracket constructing that i do for the show, and at some point you have to beat other teams that are going to be in the tournament. if you can do them away from home that's more important. you have to be able to win on the road. none of the -- none of the tournament games will be in the comcast center. tough win from home and that's something that they have not proven they can do.

>> you have an acc play and the league is, you know maybe not as top, we don't have the stud team like in the past but good teams. speaking of maryland. coach williams. coach his 1000th game this weekend. is has it gone that fast. is that right? >> he is what 26 years old, right. maybe he started. he in unfortunate have started when he was 8. you know, and what gary williams has done at the university of maryland is nothing short of speaker-elect tack eye lar. if you go back to the circumstances that led to him getting the job. i talked about the len bias tragedy and the bob wade debacle it took a long time to restore glory to that program. not only resulting in a championship but the building of the comcast center. that's why i think that whatever occurred he has the right as close to tenure as you

can can in the profession. he is a great guy and coach, you never have to stay up worrying about the program and gary williams. they re-elect his personality. it is a program that they can be proud of. >> another program and. and they were not sure he has come in and a chance to check them out. i watched him. and what is interesting when i talked to other coaches. and. and playing washington and that's just a tough style to have to play against. and what they are gone with. and a style that is not and and

now have you to go and content with a team like virginia and run screens and defend and they have a player in land tisburg. one of the best players that nobody knows about, he is coming into his own where he is now, you know he put up the good numbers but now he is scoring in a way where he is making his teammates better and win. they had some losss there on conference but you know certainly to start off 3-0 in the acc, gave them a good feeling and vibe around the program and serve notice that it is automatic win when you play virginia. you have a deal with what they do before you can beat them. >> they play defense like his old and greend bay. it is amazing. let me ask you for the hoyas. the resume. we like it but it is not a lot of depth and now they're in and

the schedule they are playing a bunch of ranked teams. will they withstand that with their style of play. they are young they can play all night. can you get away with that rotation? >> let me tell you i think that, i've cran, depth in basketball has gone the way of the short shorts. there are not that many teams that have a lot of depth. you know what georgetown is a example of what that is the case. if they had maclin and rivers this he would have more and have veteran depth but they transferred. why? they were not featured in the offense. this he were never going to be. so that's -- >> and summers i don't think he was ready. but you know he i don't think he played that well last year. that's the way it goes. >> you know he didn't and him leaving and you know jessie sap. chemistry is a difficult thing. but sometimes you have a certain mess of personality that does not mix so well.

you had some young guys last year that i think could threaten for playing time. when you had the holder guys with turf to protect. that can go one of two ways. i think that you saw the way that it went. now they are gone and austin freeman and wright and clark, have been great for the team. they are able to step up in the primary roles. you can see they're thriving. and he was at one point tapped to be the aboutest in the class. he was so highly urgent is a. sought after they were nitpicking his game. people expect him to sort of dominate every possession. i said then he was the best player in the class. i say now he is a lottery pick talent. a great. great player. nobody in the big east wants to play georgetown now. they are very, very tough to deal with. next, on the verge of becoming a powerful plan in dc

sports. the plan to take and turn over the wizards. to hse, hasnkey ( la )

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right here on this show we do a lot of sports, primarily sports, i don't know the humor that you get out of it. the tiger woods situation is begging for it. >> the tiger woods situation, are you kidding. for comedian that is like a christmas present with a bow on it. i cannot write this stuff it is so fantastic. i would like to announce i am one of this mistresses you know we have been sexing a lot and -- sex. iting he is being harbored in oprah's basement. there is some -- you know he could be in one of those dick cheney hiding under ground places, he knows somebody in low places. we have not seen him. i want to see him the fat lip

and the black eye,ky not help it i think it is funny this little blonde swedish chick beat the crap out of him. >> we know he is not near oprah. that's a black woman. >> that's right, that's not his gig although maybe if oprah had some plastic surgery he may reconsider. >> what else. >> or oprah was a cocktail waitress that helps or a stripper at scores. >> are you buying the idea that he needs to therapy? >> yes i think he needs therapy i'm going to give it to him. [ laughter ] >> i have several sessions i mapped it out and what happens we're having sex while he is writing checks out to me i want to get him. we're going to have that ambien sex that he enjoys. >> are you a sports fan? do you have teams you enjoy. were you a fan. >> a giants -- i'm a sports expert i love football. i'm cheering for the buck

areduces and the red eyes. they are going to have a strong season and -- i know nothing about sports. >> thanks for watching washington post live weekend. that was cathy griffin giving us her take on tiger woods among other things. after matters that affect your local sports and there was a tough deadline to reach an agreement to take over the wizards. >> will it happen and get this done. and what is going on. tomorrow is a day but they can extent the negotiations, ivan. they can go and get a appraisers each side. i don't think we'll see a deal this goes on. i think there they are a ways a part they will get extended.

>> and reach an agreement and if that does not happen and the two appraisers try to get a third he gets apprised. they try to agree on that. at what point will it go open market in terms and perhaps make an offer before, you know, before giving -- before that. >> and they think the side lincoln holdings holding group, they believe the contract says this is they're going to have the right of first refusal. and it extends into the appraisal process and quite a i ways for it. they're the only entity that the estate can negotiate with. i think that -- i'm not sure the other side is buying into that and when that happens if

the other side goes out into the market, after tomorrow or during the appraisal process to find, you know, buyers, they hired goldman sachs, they're not there for a transition. you hire them, one of the best investment banks if not the ghost go out and find buyers and get the price up. that will -- that's a good question. it has not come to that yet but the team is going out into the market. but i'm not sure when

deal with and it is probably a liability, he has not played in two years he play #-d 15 games in two years. >> and. >> 30 million a knee that's questionable. you have to wonder going into the future how much you will be on the handle for. a lot is going on and it willing. be following as well. >> and stay tuned after the break and the finishing touches on washington post live

weekend. come back.

♪[music] ♪ >> differences that you decide to dress up and wear a tie in my honor. it's in thy contract you have to wear them on thursdays and mike weiss has to be here on time. >> not your beer pog. ng buddy and the vikings. i'm going to look into the camera so i sound athor taytive

like doc: >> seriously, sounding it and being are two different things. >> on the ground all the time. >> and it is on the ground. [ laughter ] >> fascinated about i this. >> you look like john lithgow today. >> you look like prince named today. gandhi. [ laughter ] >> enough already. continue. >> back off. >> leave the jill, george michael. call me back. so i call him back he said listen i'm giving you the job i'm paying you this much don't you dare have your agent negotiate it. >> i said okay. and then i was 23. >> this team has a little pepper in its grits as i like to say. playing like the reggie bush. >> i thinks that do with the fact the saints are paying him

as much as he was paid in college and that's helping him a lot. >> we have to go, man. buy more time. >> i want. this is the highest rated show he have you had all week. [ laughter ] >> i don't understand this deal man. this is not an hour and a half on thursday. >> we have to get the show over so i can go. >> you can make money doing this.