state of new york. it's particularly troubling that the inconsist ten p tent statements to the committee were in each instance an attempt to down play the concerns about the wage and hour watch program wafd by republican members. at best the inconsistencies in her testimony lead me to question her ability to interact with congress in a candid manner and manage the enforcement of labor laws by the office of solicitor in an evenhanded and fair manner. i have tried for months to resolve these concerns. in august, i asked president obama to withdraw ms. smith's nomination and offered my assistance in ensuring a replacement would be confirmed quickly. i also joined all of my nine colleagues in urging senator harkin from approving this nominee in committee and ensured that the qualifying replacement be given

swift confirmation. i mentioned that i joined all nine. a couple of the people on there i don't know if they've ever opposed a presidential appointment. because the president did not consider it a problem that ms. smith provided factually inconsistent information to the senate, i am forced to insist son a full debate on her nomination. giving my consent to a presidential nominee isn't something i take lightly. and the even with the benefit of the doubt i've always given to the candidates sent over us to by the white house. the integrity of the senate committee process and the responsibility of advice and consent demands honest and accurate testimony when the witnesses come before us. for that reason, i've lost confidence in ms. smidges ability to manage the solicitor's office. i urge my colleagues to oppose this nomination and i ask unanimous consent that documents referred to in my speech be included in the record. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. enzi: i yield the floor.

harass mr. prede? the presiding officer: the senator from -- mr. harkin: mr. president? the presiding officer: the senator from iowa. mr. harkin: i ask that a detailee in my office be granted floor privilegesduring the debate on patricia smith to be solicitor general. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. harkin: i suggest the absence of a quorum. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll. quorum call:

mr. harkin: mr. president? the presiding officer: the senatofrom iowa. mr. harkin: i ask that further proceedings under the quorum call being dispensed with. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. harkin: mr. president, i listeninged very carefully to the -- i listened very carefully to the statement made by my friend and ranking member, senator enzi. many of the points raised by the senator have been gone over before by the committee. these were things that we looked into, and so i think i would like to respond to -- a little bit almost point by point to some of those concerns that were raised -- that was just raised in the statement made by senator enzi. but before i do that, i again want to make one thing very clear. we are talking about something here, this wage watcher -- is that what it's called? -- wage watch. we're talking about something here that's perfectly legal. almost listening to my friend's

comments on it you'd think there was some subterfuge going on here. this was perfectly open and above board and everything perfectly -- no one is alleging anything was ever done illegally here. no person, none of the wage watch people, they didn't do anything illegal. in fact, all of the things that they were engaged in -- and i say "were" -- i use the past tense because it was a pilot program. all the things they were engaged in, they can engage in today. anyone can. i can. you can. staff can. anybody can do this. it is not illegal. perfectly legal. so let's keep in mind that what we're talking about here is a perfectly legal, open, transparent, pilot project that was started by the new york department of labor. and again, as i indicated earlier with my charts, why were they doing this? because so many people have been found that weren't being paid

the minimum wage. they were working overtime, not being paid overtime. a lot of times these low-income workers, many of whom are recent immigrants to this country, they don't know what their rights are, they're fearful of losing their job; it is the only thing they have to keep their families together; and if the employer decides to shave a little bit off their overtime, what are they going to do? they have no one to go to. and so that's why i pointed out in my charts how much money and how many times commissioner smith had gone after bad being a terse, bad employers, to get money back for workers so workers for their families, for their retirement systems that they were cheated out of, and as she said to me, the good employers, the good employers,

the business people in new york, wanted her to do this because the bad actors who were shaving, who were not paying the minimum wage, who were not paying overtime, were taking unfair advantage of the honest employers who were meeting their legal obligations. that's why it's so surprise to me, mr. president, that we have all of these letters of support for ms. smith from the business community. i already mentioned the business council of new york, the manufacturers association of central new york, the entire new york congressional delegation, all of these, writing letters in in support of her, talking about how fair she is and how she would listen and work things out. so i -- so i -- i -- she started when -- she didn't start it, but when the department started this

wage watch, that was the intent of it. it was information. now, my friend says they started out from the beginning for enforcement. well, sure ... what do you think? you think someone is going to find out that someone not paying someone the minimum wage and they're not going to tell anybody, they're going to just say, well, that's just the way it is? of course the end result is to enforce the law. to enforce the law. to let people know their legal rights so that law can be enforced. of course. that's the end result of it. but the implementation of that was an informational program, to get information and guidance out to people, again, who had -- you know, we're not talking about members of congress here. we're not talking about our educated staff. who've been to the best schools and all have these fancy

degrees. we're not talking about accountants. we're not talking about people working on hedge funds in new york. or on wall street. we're talking about people working in queens on minimum wage in the garment industry, janitors, homemakers, others out there that are working in food service, that are at the minimum wage, slightly above it. we're talking about people that don't have all that knowledge base, that we kind of assume that workers would have. well, i just wanted to make that point clear before we start some of the points that were made. now, again, you know, a lot has been made about the expansion -- plans for expansion and about senator burr's question. i looked at senator burr's question. i looked at her response. i was there that day. i didn't -- it didn't register. but then later on, we began to

look at this, when issues were raised but my republican colleagues. well, quite frankly, the e-mails that were just shown here by my colleague were not e-mails from tricia smith. they were e-mails from terry gerstein. and quite frankly, to expand it to include occupational safety and health training, was an e-mail to terry gerstein from joel shustow. much was made of this -- i'm going to respond two ways. much of made of this to expanding it to occupational and safe health training. my response was yes. shouldn't people know not only what their rights are, but what

their wages are, but shouldn't they have a right to know whether something is unsafe whr-rbgs their health -- whether their health is being in danger? it seems to me this also has to get out there, to know what their rights are to protect their health and their safety. i don't have any problem with that, that they should have that kind of training also. and also to be on the lookout for that. sure, if they're working in hazardous conditions and hazardous materials that being the affect their lives and their livelihood and their future health, somebody ought to know about it. someone should know about that. now, on the expansion of the program beyond just the wage and hour, but expansion to the state, it looks like her deputies may have gotten a little ahead of her on this when they were doing this. keep in mind, i know the buck

stops here. i saw that chart. the buck always stops here. we're responsible. as i pointed out, ms. smith was running an agency with an $11 billion budget. $11 billion. 4,000 employees. this was a $6,000 pilot project. hardly the meat and potatoes of what she was doing on her job every day. plus she's focusing on one of the worst economic crisis new york and this country has faced. so keep that in mind. ms. smith was clear in her response to us about the fact that she had had no discussions about a potential expansion with anyone other than generally indicating if it were proved successful my goal would be to expand it to other areas of new york state. at that time i had not

authorized my staff to proceed with a statewide expansion of the program, nor had i discussed with them any steps that were preliminary to a possible expansion. my first -- and i'm reading from her response to our written questions. ms. smith says that "my substantive discussions about the steps needed to be taken to evaluate that occurred in late may 2009 with my executive deputy commissioner. at that time he informed me that the deputy commissioner for wage protection and immigrant affairs recently discussed with him what to do about the additional request to join the program to which we had never responded. he told me that he had authorized her sometime in mid-may to send out e-mails to groups in new york that had expressed interest in the program in case we judged the the pilot a success. he had not personally seen the e-mail.

therefore, within days i asked to review the text of the e-mail the deputy commissioner for wage protection and immigrant affairs was using. i told her that it could give the impression that a decision to expand the pilot had been made, which it had not. and i made the appropriate changes to the text. i directed her to use my corrected version in all future e-mails." again, rather than saying that this has to be expanded, she said let's look at the results and see what the results are. and she took it upon herself to correct those mailings that went out from her office. the other thing was said that had to do with unions, that she misled the committee. there's a claim in response to a written question that she instructed unions participating in the wage and hour watch program not to use her status as wage watch groups as a union

organizing tool. in fact, the new york department of labor tacitly condoned this practice. that's the charges that are made. well, first of all, again, there's nothing improper or unlawful about unions using their wage and hour watch activities as part of organizing campaigns. nothing illegal about that. i'd like to have someone show me where that would be illegal. nothing illegal about that. nothing unethical about that. but, however, smith, in order to be fair, took all appropriate steps to discourage that activity because business groups had raised concerns about this issue with her. she responded immediately. specifically prohibiting unions from distributing their own organizing literature while they were performing wage and watch activities. and here is her ... here is what

she said here. she said -- this was in the questions. this was a written question. "were you aware of any instance when a labor organization participating in the wage and hour pilot program engaged in organizing activities while p-fpbl wage and hour functions? if not, how would you responded. if not, how would you respond to such activity?" here is what ms. smith responded: i'm not aware of any organization participating in the wage and hour program engaged in any program while p-fpblg functions -- performing functions. if i had been aware, i would ordered to terminate them from the pilot. here's another question: in

your response to a question submitted by senator enzi on may 12, 2009, you describe a march 2009 meeting with numerous retail trade organizations where these organizations requested that groups participating in the wage and hour watch pilot program be prohibited from giving out information about their group while doing wage and hour watch activities. how did you respond to that request? and what actions did you take to follow up on that request? this has to do with labor unions too. i told the trade associations that their request was reasonable, that i would make sure the participating groups would be specifically instructed to refrain from giving out their own materials while doing wage and hour watch activities. i also told the trade associations that their request would be explicitly incorporated in any future written agreements. within a week of that meeting, i instructed lorelie boyland,

director of strategic enforcement, to call each of the groups participating in the wage and hour watch pilot and give them that instruction. within a week after our conversation, she reported back to me that she had contacted each of the groups, explained the specific prohibition and that they agreed to it. since then, i had from time to time asked my staff if they were aware of any problems with the group's complying with that particular instruction, and they have reported, no problems. again, here is her e-mail. some talked about how these people would go in and use authority to do something. well, it was compared to the neighborhood watch program. and as my friend said, in the neighborhood watch program, people can't go into people's homes. well, under this program, wage and hour watch program, they could not go into a private

employer's business either. they couldn't go into somebody's office, somebody's business. they could go into a store where the general public could go. they could go into wal-mart or go into a retail establishment where the public generally could go. but they could not go into, say, a manufacturing concern where the public was to the allowed to go. same as neighborhood watch. couldn't go into a, somebody's home. you could sure go into a community center. you could go in a shopping center. you could do a lot of things. you could go to the public park as a neighborhood watch. but i think -- but here is a, again, a letter -- i'm sorry, it's an e-mail. a letter from patricia smith dated january 15, 2009, long before any of this stuff ever came out. january 15, 2009. "dear labor standards staff: i want to let you know about a new

pilot program we'll be announcing on friday called wage watch. the goal of the program is with all reenforcement of the efforts is labor law compliance throughout the state." complying with the law. anybody opposed to that? here's the important paragraph: "please note that the groups and individuals who participate as wage watchers will not be agents, employees, or official representatives of the labor department. they are not replacing staff and they are not going to be conducting investigations of any kind. their role is limited to doing outreach and community education and to reporting any violations they encounter to the division. i don't think you can get much clearer than that. that went out on january 15. so, again, -- yeah, there was

one other thing i guess i've got to respond to here, and that is that some confusion as to whether this came -- the idea for this came about internally or whether externally. again, i don't understand what the big problem is here. who cares where it came from? again, it is a legal operation, ethical, aboveboard, not nefarious in any way. anyway, there's some problem about whether or not it was, came from internally or outside. when patricia smith testified at the hearing, she's being accused of misleading us because she said it was an internally crafted group, and it was only after we sat down and crafted it ourselves that we reached out to groups to see if they would be interested. well, i have met with ms. smith. we have talked about this. we went through all the records.

at that point in time when she testified, that was the best of her knowledge. that it had come from the people in her department, that they had suggested this. then they were going to go to outside groups to get people inside. what she didn't know was some people on her staff had been meeting with outside groups in terms of coming up with this kind of a, an approach. but again, then she corrected it later on when she said "yes, i found out later that some people on my staff had done this." let's keep in mind there was nothing inappropriate about this. there was nothing inappropriate about her staff meeting with outside groups to talk about this. absolutely nothing. she just happened to make a mistake in front of the committee in saying that they hadn't gone to outside groups before, before it came up. and actually it had been discussed with outside groups

with her staff. but what's the big deal? is that illegal? is someone saying there's something illegal here? no, there's nothing illegal about that. again, nothing inappropriate about it. it was simply a mistake that she made in her testimony because she didn't have full knowledge of what her staff had been doing at that point in time on this wage and hour watch. well, lastly, i know that it will be said, well, you know, can she manage a large organization if something like this, she doesn't know about what one staff person may have done in terms of talking to an outside group? well, as i point out, she ran an $11 billion agency, 4,000 employees. her focus, more than anything -- and i've talked to her about this -- was on what i talked about earlier with the charts i had, and that is going after these employers that were cheating people out of their minimum wage, taking away

retirement benefits, working them overtime, not paying them overtime. getting money back for these families. this was a $6,000 pilot project in an $11 billion agency. so, if she missed a little bit here or missed something here or missed one person talking to somebody. now, i would be more upset about it if it were illegal activities, if in fact these things had been going on and they were not legal, they were not ethical, yeah, then i'd say the buck stops here. you bet. but that's not the case. this is perfectly legal, perfectly ethical. so i can understand that if something went on in that agency in a small pilot project, that she didn't know every little single thing about it and who talked to whom and when something occurred. that's the essence, as i

understand it, of the arguments on the other side. that seems to be the essence of it. and i just -- i think it's making a mountain out of a mole hill. she's perfectly qualified to be the solicitor. and i hope that the vote coming up shortly will confirm that. a senator: mr. president? the presiding officer: the senator from wyoming. a senator: in light of the 20 minutes we heard in defense and spoken previously before i spoke, i'd ask for an additional five minutes to briefly comment on this. the presiding officer:. the presiding officer: is there objection? without objection, so ordered. mr. enzi: thank you, mr. president. so many places that a person needs to go if this -- if ms. smith is -- does make it through the cloture vote, of course, i have a lot more documents, a lot more information that i'll be sharing with people. i don't even know where to begin on the rebuttal to what has just been said. internally crafted, no. it was brought to them by the

unions and we can show where that came from the senator from iowa mentioned that she met with small businesses in march. the program started in january with no input from small business. this is going to affect small business. and they should have had the opportunity to comment on how the program would work because there are a lot of privacy and other related issues in this thing. somebody comes to you with a state card from department of labor of new york, they can probably go anywhere in the business that they want to. they've only had one day of training in order to be able to do this. one day of training. does that make them an expert in osha and wage and hour law? i don't think so. but there's some safety and securitiy and invasion of private issues that were ignored or consciously decided weren't important. we asked about background checks on those that were trained and

gave the -- that got the state identification cards. there's no formal vetting process for the new york state department of labor to partner with an entity. the department relies on prior experience working with the group for the wage and hour pilot the department selected the groups that were asked to join based on prior experience working with them on a more informal basis. the department did consider the possibility of a background check on the groups, but rejected that idea after requiring if neighborhood watch groups are subjected to background checks. the department was informed that the groups participating in this crime prevention partnership were not subject to a check. ms. smith explains lack of background check because the program's modeled on the national sheriff's association neighborhood watch program. notably unlike wage an hour watch, neighborhood watch is

purely an observe and report program. participants do not investigate crimes and strongly cautioned against doing so nor are they allowed to go into private property, calling police is significantly different from investigating the wages an hours of individual employers. recording their personal contact information. this decision to allow those who may have criminal records, no background check, or may not be legal residents, no background check in the united states to be trained and gather information under cover of new york state authority. that's a little different than neighborhood watch too. it's also compound bid the types of information being gathered. ms. smith authorized the training provided to participants that directed them to gather the personal telephone number, vehicle license plate and home address of business owners they visited. as noted above the state allowed

that information to be kept and used for purposes outside the wage and hour watch. i have a lot more things that i could go into. for instance, the memorandum of ms. smith in january of 2009, the officials point out that all pilot groups will be taught guidance on what level of informing is need for unanimous wage and hour -- anonymous wage and hour watch, so they do not confront their accuser and hold them accountable. in other words, it could be used for harassment there are a lot of problems with the program. i will go into them tomorrow if cloture is successful. i yield the floor. the presiding officer: under the previous order, the clerk will report the motion to invoke cloture. the clerk: cloture motion: we, the undersigned senators, in accordance with the provisions of rule 22 of the standing rules of the senate, do hereby move to bring to a close debate on the nomination of m. patricia smith of new york to be solicitor for

the department of labor signed by 17 senators. the presiding officer: by mass consent, the mandatory quorum call has been waived. the question is: is it the sense of the senate the debate on the nomination of ann patricia smith shall be brought to a cloasms the yeas and nays -- to cleesms the yeas and nays are mandatory under the rule. the clerk will call the r vote:

quorum call: vote:

vote:

the presiding officer: anyone -- are there any senators in the chamber wishing to vote or change their vote? if not, on this vote, the yeas are 60, the nays are 32. three-finals of the senators duly chosen and sworn shall having voted in the affirmative, the motion is agreed to.

mr. reid: mr. president? the presiding officer: the majority leader. mr. reid: mr. president, i ask now unanimous consent notwithstanding rule 22 that the senate consider the following nominations: calendar number 561, clifford stanley to be under secretary of defense of person ale he will and readiness, calendar number 603, plawr a kennedy for a u.s. representative, calendar number 614, phillip goldberg to be assistant secretary of state for intelligence. calendar number 615, karen wagner to be under secretary for intelligence and analysis, with the department of homeland security that the nominees be confirmed en bloc, the motion to

reconsider be laid on the table enbelong, any statements relating to these nominations appear at the appropriate place in the record as if read and the president be immediately notified of the senate's action, prior to there being a statement on whether or not this is accepted, let me just say that these are all critically important to the safety and security of this nation. clifford stanley, under secretary of defense, laura kennedy, conference on disarmament, phillip goldberg, secretary of state for intelligence, calendar number 615, karen wagner under secretary for intelligence with the department of homeland security. every one of these are very important. i repeat, to the security and safety of our nation. mr. shelby: mr. president? the presiding officer: is there objection? mr. shelby: i object. the presiding officer: objection is heard.

the senator from ohio. mr. brown: thank you. i rise to speak in support of the nomination of pa tritricia smith, as the clter solicitor of labor. it is important, a understand we just had a vote again for 40 people here tried to block. the presiding officer: the senate will be in order. the senator ohio. brown brow thank you, mr. president. mr. brown: thank you, mr. president. again today we saw where 40 people tried to block the nomination of a key position in the department of labor. this is a position that matters to workers. it is a position that malts to the middle class. it is a position that has remained unfilled for a whole year. it's been a year since president obama was sworn in. this is one of the top officials at the labor department. it is a department that frankly my friends when president bush was president, that president didn't put much stock in the labor department, didn't much

care about enforcing rules about labor, didn't much care about putting government on the side of the workers in terms of worker safety, in terms of wages, in terms of all the things that a labor department is there for to make sure that people are rewarded for their labor, that people who work with their hands, people who work with their brains, people are compensated for the fruits of their labor. it's such an american success story of people working hard, getting ahead, being compensated for what they do, the wealth they create for their employer. they should share in some of these benefits. that doesn't seem to be the way that 40 members of this body look at the world. solicitor of labor is the third-ranking leader at the department of labor. she will be charged, if confirmed, with enforcing the full scope of the federal larks protecting labor rights and employment rights. these are not -- i repeat, not -- trivial matters. they are important protections that reflect core american

values, fair hiring practices, safe working conditions, retirement security, payment of wages, and benefits. let me give you an example. there has been a practice in northeast ohio and across the country, we find out, where when you go to a restaurant and you don't pay your bill, when you walk out of the restaurant, you know who ends up paying the bill? in many cases, it is the person who waited on your table, the person who waited -- if you skip out on your bill, as has happened more and more and who are in this recession, you skip out and paying your bill at a restaurant, it's not management that eats the cost. it's typically the worker, the waiter, the waitress, the server that eats that cost. and there are two cases, one in columbus, where the worker -- where the waiter -- i believe it was a waitress in this case -- chased the person out of the restaurant who didn't pay her bill. you know what happened? she was hit by the car and is paralyzed. there was a case in texas where

a server chased someone who didn't pay the bill out in the parking lot, was hit by a car and was killed. the reason they do that is they are trying to enforce this -- you know, they are trying to make the patron behave to do the right thing, and they pay the ultimate price for that. and you know why? because the department of labor has not enforced laws that protect that worker. that's just one example. that's just two examples, one in columbus, one i believe in dallas, somewhere in texas. there are only a few people whom i'm aware of, mr. president, who have expressed any concerns over commissioner smith's nomination, the commissioner who will enforce these rules that simply aren't being enforced, haven't been he forced by eight years of the previous administration, who almost always sides with management over any real labor concerns, over wages, over safety, over worker concerns, and then a handful of republicans have voiced

opposition due to supposed discrepancies in submissioner smith's -- commissioner smith's testimony in the committee. her statements concerning a small pilot program that constituted $6,000 of a department's $11 billion budget, in response to written questions submissioner smith clarified her statements to the full satisfaction chairman harkin. despite this, republicans on the "help" committee held up the nomination process again, one yierts a been, and she is not sitting there yet. one year of republicans saying "no," of blocking things, of obstruction. they've gone so far as to call for the withdrawal of the nomination altogether. it is irresponsible to cause a lengthy delay on much immaterial grounds on a position so important. this isn't an inconsequential position that doesn't matter. it afengts worker rights, affects workers' pay, that affects workers' ability to be part of the middle class. it is a time that's particularly

critical to file for the woks of this country. we all know this the last ten years -- until this recession, profits were generally up, the economy was was growing until this recession, until 2007, yet workers' wages didn't keep up up. part of the reason is because we had a labor department that simply didn't care about enforcing these rules. we have a responsibility to provide leadership at the highest levels to ensure americans -- american workers have an honest day's worker. that's why i'm pleefsed the president has nominated a candidate like patricia smith to be our nation's next solicitor of labor. she's served as lts new york labor bureau chief. she argued in supreme court cases. her tenure has come at a difficult period yet has met the challenge with professionalism. she's garnered support in new york state where she worked of both the business and labor communities much the business council of new york state, not exactly the say the afl-cio, the business council of new york set

a record that shows her to be thorough, fair, and gushous in the use of the tools at her disposal to ensure compliance with new york labor laws. the local chamber of commerce supported her saying, they have enjoyed not only attention and engage the from pa think shah but a general working relationship. she's received commendations while serving under both democratic and republican administrations. one republican state senator in new york observes she has worked in a positive bipartisan manner. the new york congressional delegation, both parties unanimously supported her. yet 40 republicans again said "no" and tried to block what we are trying to do, what the president simply wants to do is simply fill this position. mr. president, let me conclude with a short story. today i was at hugo boxer which is a clothing manufacturer in cleveland, ohio. actually brooklyn, a suburb of cleveland. hugo boss is one of the last

manufacturers -- this plant is one of the last companies -- manufacturing companies of men's suits and shirts -- men's suits, pants and sport coats and suits in the united states. it's -- hugo boss's last manufacturing plant. hugo boss has said this is a profitable operation -- it is a german corporation -- it is a profitable operation in cleveland making suits but we'd make more if we moved our production to turkey. that's what they're going to do. i met with some of the 4 workers tid. they make no more than $15 an hour. they're paid pretty good benefits. it is one more case where our trade law and tax law undercut american manufacturing. these are jobs that barely get their workers to the middle class, a lot of husbands and wives both work at hugo boss in cleveland. i'm hopeful they change their mind. at the same time, hugo boss says that they are expanding their operations in the united states,

but those operations are the sales force. they're going to open more stores in the united states, they're expanding their sales force in the united states. but they've decided to eliminate the production in the united states. again, not because they're not making a profit in cleveland but because they can make a bigger profit in turkey. and i think this illustrates again, mr. president, that it's time that our government, you know, whether it isen forcement of labor laws by patricia smith or trade agreements in tax law, our government come down on the side of workers, come down on the side of communities. we know what this will mean for cleveland, ohio, in terms of taxes. we know what it'll mean for those 400 workers. we know what it'll mean for those families. it's note good for anybody. and it's important, mr. president, that at least we speak today here in support of patricia smith to show that, yes, this body will stand up for workers and dot right thing. mr. president, i yield the floor.. a senator: mr. president? the presiding officer: the senator from georgia. mr. isakson: i'd like to be

recognized for up to ten minutes as if in morning business. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. isakson: mr. president, i rise tonight following on the heels of two more bank closings in my state last friday. not new banks, one of them over 60 years old, one of them over 100 years old. i want to talk for a few minutes tonight about the unintended consequences of well-intended regulation. we're now going into the 26th month of the current recession. this will arguably be the longest recession postworld war ii america's experienced. i can tell you from having gone through four of the recessions post1960, this is by far the worst of anything we've experienced. we're at a point where we've got to make good, solid decisions, but we've got to help our economy, help our businesses and help our financial institutions. don't get me wrong at the outset, i'm not talking about waiving or dispensing or looking

the other way. i'm not talking about loosey-goosey regulation which got us into the mess we're in, shoddy underwriting and poor credit. what i'm talking about are realistic approaches to difficult problems and look into our past to understand the answers for our future. i want to talk about rule 114, which is called mark to market. mark to market is where an appraisal of an asset held by a bank is apraised at what it would sell for today, in many cases because of a difficult real estate market in both commercial and residential, those values are dramatically depressed. in most cases below the loan that's against them. the asset deteriorates. the asset side of the balance sheet of the bank deteriorates. you have difficult problems. in the late 1980's and earl lip 1990's -- early 1990's we had something called the resolution trust corporation, the r.t.c. it was kind of a bad bank that

took the assets of the failed savings and loans around the united states. we waived mark to market for three years, had a three-year moratorium. the banking institution and their regulators could deal with loans in a practical, pragmatic way, rather than a draconian rigid application of mark to market. secondly, we've got to consider doing something on the appraisal rules that have been passed down. i have talked to our secretary of h.u.d. on this and intend to talk more about it. i was in clayton county, georgia, south of atlanta just two weeks ago, a county that's been hit hard by the housing recession, a county where values are 42% below what they were in 2006. that is a significant decline. and talked to one realtor after another and one lender after another who told me the interesting thing that's happening. with the new appraisal regulations, the appraisals on these houses when they sell at a short sale or foreclosure are

coming in at exceedingly low values. but when the people have to get their homeowners insurance to insure the house, they're having to insure the house for more than they paid for it. why? because you can buy houses in a lot of markets in georgia today and around the country for less than it would cost to replace. when i entered the business in the 1960's, cost to replace was the principal way in which you evaluated real estate. it later became comparable sales took over cost to replace. i think it's time we looked at cost to replace becoming the primary mechanism to establish the value for financing purposes and for lending purposes. the short sale situation is another problem. it has taken banks in some cases 10 to 12 months to give somebody an answer on a short sale. a short sale is when you've got a house and you're in default, you can't pay your loan but it's not in foreclosure yet. you find a buyer who can pay 80 cents on a dollar.

say you owe $1 hundred and they can pay $80. you go to your bank and say will you accept 80 and let me sell this property rather than foreclose it. banks are reluctant to make decisions, therefore most of the time they didn't. those houses they could have sold on a short sale go into foreclosure. more often than not, they're vandalized, their value declines 1%, 2% a month. to show you the value of well-intended regulation, i want to commend the treasurer because last week the treasury issued a ruling to banks that received tarp money that they must respond within ten days on any short sale offer on a mortgage that that bank holds. you're going to see a remarkable change in denver, in atlanta, in houston and a lot of other places. you're going to see some sales that haven't been taking place start to take place. you're going to see some inventory be absorbed.

i want to commend the treasury on their good approach to short sales. i want to talk a minute about lost share. the fdic has come up with a loss share proposal for the banks that take the troubled assets of banks that are failed. the fdic says if you'll take these assets, we will guarantee the most you can lose is 20% of the value. we'll cover the other 80%. to make sure you don't get in worse trouble you can't extend beyond 10% of the debt owed to the borrower. the problem with that is a lot of these assets are in fact perform but they haven't been completed yet. and they complete the asset so it begins to pay back, sometimes you've got to extend credit beyond 10% or 15% or 20%. to have an absolute rule that you can't is causing loans to go bad or to go unfunded that otherwise should have been funded. mr. president, in 1974, we went through a housing recession as deep and as problematic as the one today. and foreclosures were every bit

as rampant. maybe not as big in numbers but as rampant and as difficult. as is beginning to happen now, the commercial loans began to fail in 1975. an interesting happened around the country. commercial lenders and the regulators recognized very quickly if they foreclosed on commercial loans like they had foreclosed on residential loans, the banking system would collapse. the asset side of all, most all banks would collapse. and so what they decided to do was encourage banks to work out these assets by going to the developer who is in trouble, who owes the money and say if you'll deed this property back to us in lieu of foreclosure and then let us hire you on an earned on process so we can develop our way out of this debt rather than foreclose ourselves into a loss and more often than not, probably three out of every four transactions it happened. the house i live in today, i built on a lot i bought in a subdivision that had been taken

back by the c&s national pwafrbg. they hired the developer to do a workout and bought it at a good price. it became a great development. the bank eventually was made whole. the bank would have lost lots of money if they had to take that theufrpbg and foreclose on it -- thing and foreclose on it. i want to encourage our regulators to give the great american entrepreneurship the chance to work. some of these people are in trouble but there are avenues outside of that trouble. there's been a lot of talk about taxing banks that received tarp money. i want to address that for a second. the best i can tell, every bank that receive tarp money is paying it back in a 5% dividend. we're making a profit. the only people that haven't paid it back are g.m. and chrysler who probably never will. if we put that much more of a burden on top of the people that are paying us and paying a premium when we have a banking system under stress and under regulatory duress, we're only making it more and more possible

or impossible for them to stay in business, for them to be vibrant and come back to bring credit to our communities. on that point, with mark to market enforced in a draconian rate, with appraisal rules driving down the values of properties that are financed by the banks, with the regulatory environment being so stiff to recognize losses and deteriorate the balance sheet, there is not any credit for small business to speak of. so we are making a recession that's deep, that is broad and that's pervasive worse because of the unintended consequences of well-intended regulation. lastly, i want to -- i've enjoyed working with senator kaufman so much over this issue of short sales that i just want to put in one more plug for what we've plugged in this entire session and encourage the s.e.c. in the collapse that took place in the markets, one of the things that went away -- went out of hand was the short selling of financial stocks to

terrible lows. that short telling took place in large measure because there was no uptick rule which was the old rule that was good for years on the stock market that once you had a declining value in a stock, if it ticked up on a trade, you stopped the short selling from continuing to take place. we need the s.e.c. to revisit it. they took 30 days a year and a half ago and suspended it, and it helped. but we don't need those speculating in the marketplace to take unfair advantage of the values of equities that are owned by americans all over this country for the sake of making a buck on a short sale. so my remarks really are very simple. there are unintended consequences to regulation, and we need to start looking at the cause and effect and where we can find opportunities for banks to work out, for market to market to be suspended, for appraisals to be best on cost and replace rather than comparable sales. we'll begin to give the flexibility to the banking system to begin to recover, to

stop the losses, stop the failures and over time recover our economy. mr. president, i yield back the balance of my time. a senator: mr. president? the presiding officer: the senator from pennsylvania. mr. casey: thank you, mr. president. i would ask consent that i be permitted to speak as if in morning business. the presiding officer: without objection. mr. casey: thank you, mr. president. i rise tonight to speak of what i believe is the central concern of the american people right now, and that's the issue of jobs. or in many cases the lack of a job. we've seen it in so many ways. we've seen it in our own communities. many people have seen it in their own families. these aren't statistics on a business page. when they see an unemployment rate or the number of people out of work. it's real life for far too many american families. as long as the unemployment rate in america is 10%, the american people want us to focus as we

never have before on the issue of job creation. in pennsylvania, we have now 560,000 people out of work as of the last month it was calculated, the month of december. that's a huge number. if you look at it by percentage, it looks like it's lower than a lot of states, about 8.9%. but 560,000 people in pennsylvania, and it spiked upwards toward the end of the year. i had a chance now just about a week ago to sit down with eight of those 560,000 people. eight people out of work. i won't give you their names because that was the agreement. we wanted -- i wanted to spend some time listening mostly to folks who had been laid off, lost their job in one way or another through no fault of their own, victims of this horrific, horrific recession

that so many families have lived through. to encapsulate what they said, it comes down to much of what we heard president obama speak about the other night in his state of the union as well as what he said a number of weeks ago when he met unemployed individuals in allentown, pennsylvania. what he saw in that job center in pennsylvania is what i saw in another job center in another part of the state. people who don't fully understand why they're in this predicament, people who have worked their whole lives, had great work records, never missed a day of work for the most part, many of them well over the age of 50, many over the age of 60 and feeling the kind of economic insecurity and vulnerability they've never felt before. but despite all that, they're not -- they weren't complaining. they weren't pointing fingers.

they weren't complaining about the number of applications they fill out, scores of them -- 25, 30, 50, 100. and in many cases getting either rejected or hearing nothing at all. that's what i heard. i also heard, as the president said, a real determination to keep fighting, to keep applying and to keep trying to get a job. that maybe the thread that runs through all of them is they're grateful for the country they live in and they want to work. they don't want to be in the position they're in. many of them feel ashamed to have to rely upon someone else or an institution or, in particular, a government program. one woman said to me in the meeting i had a week ago, she was sitting on my right, and she had a lot of brains and talent and commitment and never had to worry about being out of work before. she told me that she felt -- and

i'm not quoting her directly, but that she felt badly or even embarrassed about having to rely on food stamps, a program we know helps people get across that bridge when they're out of work, over across the bridge to a time when they can return to work. so these eight individuals gave me just an insight, just a glimmer of how live with kg ande celtics invading the phone booth. meanwhile the caps have a streak of their own. with a franchise record in sight how did they get here. >>to ovechkin, rips it, scores! >>in a game that at times is more fun than football london crutcher came to play. we'll look back at the pro bowl. . >>live from the comcast sports net studio, this is geico

sportsnite. with the pro bowl out of the way we can dedicate our attention to miami to one that really matters this sunday. the saints and colts have landed on south beach. welcome to the comcast studios. welcome to geico sportsnite. the caps will have to wait another day for 11 in a row. the wid rdz get a shot tonight though at home. celtics coming to verizon center. that's where we find chris miller. the two wins have come across the nets and knicks, but the wizards are showing signs of life as of late. >>it all starts with the energy aspect of their game. that might be in the key to victory tonight. going back to the last game, winning by 10 against knicks, jamison had some help. >>that was a huge reason why. he did his job scoring around 20 points, but he had a career high with 23 rebounds.

mike miller did an excellent job at taking the outside shot. saunders has been saying he's too passive from the 3-point line. they definitely want him to be more aggressive and stop passing up the open shots. >>what was really key was they went up by 17. the knicks made a little run, but the wizards were like these are the knicks, let's step on these guys. >>and that's about progress. they've been faltering. they got a big lead, the knicks made a run, they with stood the run with the push they made and grabbed the victory. >>the boston celtics are in town. we'll talk about the c's more in just a few minutes. first the keys of victory. >>tonight i think you'll have to stand in front of ray john rondo. he got selected for the all-star game. he breaks you down with penetration and then steps up and

shoots. you have toive awareness. rondo, allen, pierce, garnett, they're all capable of girlfriending you 20 points or more. consistent defense will be necessary. then lastly i think there's going to have to be the energy. they have to bring the energy. right now the celtics are physically and emotionally taxed after a game last night with the celtics going down to the final buzzer, losing 8 of the last 12. they came in on the short end of the stick. they're emotionally drained. >>those are the keys to victory tonight against the celtics. we'll keep our eye on all those as pekts. here's gary washburn who writes for the boston globe. i see 29-16, that's pretty impressivement then i remember this is the boston celtics. what's been their problem latelisome. >>they've been injured and inconsistent. guys who usually come through haven't. they haven't played with the cohesiveness, especially defensively, that we've been used to seeing in the last five years. >>the defensive guru is

thibodeau. i'm surprised by the injuries you mentioned. yet at 29-16 should we be surprised or disappointed at that record? >>i think disappointed. they lost to the warriors and clippers and philadelphia at home. this is a team that has lost to a lot of losing teams. indiana. teams that have come in and played well and the celtics allowed that. they've fallen apart in the 4th quart and are lost a big league like yesterday with the lakers and thursday against orlando. they fall behind early. they've lost to atlanta four times. >>wow. >>we're not used to seeing this. we're not used to seeing kevin garnett slow or ray allen missing 3's. we're not used to paul pierce not getting a shot off. >>i don't want to do ray allen a disservice. he has struggled mightly. he's missed eight of the last ten shots. he's only shooting 34% in the last six games. what's wrong? >>the shots just aren't going down. it looks good coming off his hand, but it just isn't going

down. to me, you never would see this in seattle with him. you'd never see him slump like this. he's not getting the lift off his legs at age 34 perhaps. there's a problem and we don't know what it is because he's in great shape. >>if ray's struggling rondo has been off the hook. this is why he'll be an all -star reserve. >>he's incredible. he's a great rebounder and point guard. he's doing unorthodox things that defenders don't expect. that's why he's an all-star. >>all right. thank you so much, gary, for your time. back to the studio. you alluded to the three-game winning streak they're going for. saunlders said i don't want to even talk about that until the game is over. we'll ask him if he can get the victory. >>sounds good considering the other times they went for three. thanks a lot. we'll see you after the game. celtics and wizards coming up

next. after the show we'll go back to a preview from our announ more o also theway we'l at how kevin garnett is playing for paint, trying to stop the celtics' recent slump. the last written words we saw from gilbert arenas were strange rambling on his twitter account. before he pleaded guilty to a gun charge, before he was suspended for the rest of the season. today gilbert wrote to the washington post. guns and violence are serious problems, not joking matters. a lesson that's been brought home to me over the past few weeks. i thought about it when i pleaded guilty as charge court and when i ak ep septembered my suspension without challenge. you can comment on our website right now at csnwashington.com.

backstrom cradles it for ovechkin. he breaks the tie. >>when they're playing well they're blowing people out. when they're not they still have ovechkin to come up big like yesterday. they had the franchise tying tenth win. that he dropped a decision nearly three weeks ago in tampa. >>they played bad and they saw their faults and played even the next night not very good. we weren't playing good until we came back and we won. it was sort of like that's the thing that shook them. they had a couple of days to practice, and they took off from there. every game is individual, and you look at it like -- you don't look at anything like streaks. you don't look at any of those things past and future. you just look at it like that came. for 24 hours we have to find a

way to win. all right. let's go inside the streak. the caps have outscored opponents by almost 3 points a game. they have almost identical goals against averages. ovechkin averaging 2 points a game. on his way to being name touchdown nhl's number one star for january. >>the caps aren't just winning games these days. they're doing it in style. later in the show we have the best of the best from the ten-game streak. and wouldn't you know the caps go for a record 11 straight wins tomorrow night. puck drops at 7. we're all over this one beginning at 6:30 on geico sportsnite. fletcher finally made his pro bowl debut last night after 1 nfl seasons. there he is. fletcher setting up the defense for the nfc.

get to go work doing what he does best, tackling chris johnson right there. then estops gates short of the down. four tackles from fletcher, as well as some fun on the sideline. [indiscernible] >>with the long hair. >>cut your hair, hippy. matt schaub taking on mvp honors with two touchdown passes 13 of 17 for 189 yards. ray rice making the first of his first pro bowl game with the 23-yard run led to a feel goal and the tie. they take it for the first time in three years. 41-34 the final. still to come on geico sportsnite, superbowl week has arrived, and everybody has an opinion on the saints and colts. former superbowl champ phil si mm s weigh inside on the game. with their win in chapel hill, virginia has put the rest

of the league on notice. where does that leave uva in the wide open acc. > >>no rest for bene olson. the star turned assistant coach still doing what he can do to help out the black and red. we're checking back on the first day of practice when we get back on geic man:e as altime who'mosttant. man:e as altime er lke g.cave..hereat fenswe h doetart. tart theatio eed y whe as altime er the rinve..hereat fenswe h dsomebody who brings it, tartevery game, every time. ♪ eed y whe as altime er the rinve..hereat fenswe h histw dsomebody who brings it, tartevery game, every time. ♪ eed y whe as altime er the rinve..hereat fenswe h ♪ the images from haiti are heart-breaking-- homes, hospitals, and schools destroyed; families searching for loved ones;

parents trying to feed their children. but we can all do something. we can help the american red cross as it delivers the food, water, and medicine that can save lives. donate $10 by texting "haiti" to 9-0-9-9-9. visit redcross.org or call 1-800-red-cross. thanks for your help.

am protects the quterback the best? that's the one that's going to win. all right.

comic up on geico sportsnite the wizards go for their third straighten to the, but they'll have to go through kg to do it. his return has been vital to the c's. caps are streaking, and they're looking good winning. we'll look back at what got them to the brink of a franchise record w

they hit the practice field today at the snowy field. coach put the black and red through a brisk two-hour workout. he worked mostly on the side

recovering from injury, but troy perkens was back in familiar territory. the entire squad is beginning preparations for the 2010 campaign. >>this is what i get paid to do. for me it's heaven. it's a beautiful day out here. obviously a little bit cold, but i thought it was an lent day. i was pleased. we're going to make sure we provide an environment where our players are getting better. can you get a feel for anything yet with this group of guys or is it too early to tell? >>it's a good environment here. you know, we have a good group of guys. we have the veterans back, and we have some young guys. it's just a good feeling to be back here. >>i'm here to win. i want to start winning. i know the front office and the coaching staff wants to win. i'm going to do everything i can to get the guys in front of me and the others to be the best we

can be. unfinished business was finished up today. he's been a mainstay with the club since 1996. when i asked if it was a big deal to get this deal done before training began the 36-year-old marino said, of course. i've got five kids to feed. >>the number ten is pretty tough to get to. and i told the guys, it's sting that, you know, you might go your whole career again without getting it. and so i told them to enjoy it. >>it's not just that is washington capitals have won ten games in a row. its the way they're doing it. this is new jersey putting a death grip on the zone. this is zil on the soccer field. it's a beautiful game on ice. we have joe and locker on the call every minute. >>making a break for it. he scores! the head fake, he scores! washington comes all the

way back to win it 5-4. back from icing. ovechkin fires and scores! 49 seconds in. backstrom showing off. ovechkin in for one. one more from the great 8. scores! shortlanded. he scores! ovechkin against emery to put a clincher on this one. back hanlds it. scores! and he made it look easy. one more pass to bradley. he scores! backstrom right handed, he scores! nicklas backstrom with it. revving it? . stepping back, score! cruising through crease. like lightning in a bottle. ovechkin coming in. a beautiful movement rebound,

score! backstrom in with it. he scores! through the crease for 7. back door, score! semin to the point. he scores! semin with the final thrust. coming on in. tries to make a book door pass, and he scores! fehr working the goalline on the backside rotation. score! richards in with it. a tap in for ovechkin. backstrom to semin. bull's eye. 5-1. score! great glove save. ovechkin with the score! alex ovechkin breaks the tie. >>here are the longest win streeks for the pro sports teams. the red skins went on a 14-game

one. believe it or not the nats had a win streak back in 2005. we had to look that one up. despite winning a championship in 1998 the wizards franchise has never ever had a ten-game win streak. the wizards have a chance for a modest three-game win streak if they winnen to the against boston. another great performance from mike miller would sure help. he went with the for a season high 25 the last time out against knicks. for more on tonight's game let's go back to verizon center. that's where steve and phil are standing by. >>they hold their opponents turned scoring average, but ting key tonight for washington will be defense, phil. they have to keep boston down, and in doing so they're going to look to andre blast to come in on kevin garnett. >>yes, the front line has to be solid. of course he's a big part of the front line package coming off

the bench. the last two games he's been very effective. you and i both have talked about how aggressive he's been, particularly around the glass. he's been going towards the basket and at the basket as opposed to the fade away. he's been doing a much better job of getting the points that you need. he's also been closer for rebounding. he's had a total of 15 rebounds in the last two games. in fact, the last four or five games he's scored 10 or more points. you look at his number it is last time these teams met back in december. 17 points in that game and a career high five steals. again, you need that kind of activity and that kind of aggressiveness. >>the celtics played yesterday and lost a heart breaker to the lakers and kobe bryant at the buzzer. they started out the season 23-5 through christmas day. lately, phil, they've been more inconsistent, especially on the road. any idea why that is? >>well, obviously kevin garnett has missed 11 games. a lot of losses during that

time. it messed with their rotations. again, a great start. 13-1 on the road. as you said, after the christmas break, 6-11 overall and only three wins out of ten on the road. again, they're trying to get some continuity back together again with kevin in the line-up. rasheed has to play a big part. tony allen is big off the bench as well. they have to get the eight, nine, ten-man rotation back in order. >>they swept the wizards last season in three straight, but that's the first time in 28 years that the celtics have swept the wizards. washington tonight tries to even the series at one a piece. russ, back to you. gentlemen, thank you very much. you know, dave johnson breaks down the wizards the morning after every game. tomorrow you can read dave's take from court side. it's only on csnwashington.com. the keyword is wizards. you can get the wizards score sent to your cell phone for

free. go online and enter the keyword text. standard text rates apply. some way say washington is play boston at the right time, but is there a right time when kevin garnett is on t oor? l talose a turninju

en aecia risk theflu soyourinat fn moflu. tor, we can all fight the flu.

you're watching comcast sports net. you're watching the official sports network of the capitals, comcast sports net. here's a look at tonight's line-up presented by the ups. tip off just minutes away from the celtics and wizards followed by postgame live. red skins nation comes your way at 10:30. consecutive garn net's arrival in boston was a signal that things were about to change for the celtics. but the big ticket's intensity

and attitude spread. they won two seasons ago. now knee injuries have hobbled gar met who had ten games before returning last week. he's trying to get them back. >>miller comes on one side. kg goes back to that side. >>it's good to be back and be a a sxrens try to help -- presence and try to help. it's hard to be out. >>you tell guys to move the ball. he always does a good job of disciplining guys, telling guys when they got open. he always does a good job of that. >>he's good. it makes me smarter. no doubt about that. he makes our team better. he makes everybody smarter's th. he's the defensive leader.

he's the guy that holds everybody accountable on the celtics way to play. without him i think that was slipping. >>it's a trickle down effect. rasheed is come inning on the second unit. he's doing what he does with the same page. if there's two people on the same page on the court it's me and k.g. at all times he and i will always see eye to eye. we'll cover for each other and cover for the team. that's about it. >>it's good to be back and actually help my team and try to get something going. >>that's going to do it for us here tonight on geico sportsnite. for the latest from around our area and the sorts world log on to csnwashington.com. wizards tacking on the celtics now. tip off coming up next on comcast sports net. the wizards verses kg and the

>> a cold day in chapel hill. florida state faces north carolina. meet one of the highest scoring teams in the nation on their home court. kansas and monroe and alisha har vis lead the seminals to victory over will ufc keep their game in high gear. we'll find out as north carolina hosts florida state right now.

>> as we head into february this is the tar heels trying to keep pace with unbeaten duke and a tough game at home against the 15th rank florida state seminals. welcome to chapel hill, north carolina. i'm mike caulk ran along with debbie net tinelli. north carolina at home. >> florida state is a team that will come off of the lost against duke and say forget bit, they will move forward and play better. i can guarantee it because i know the makeup and thecan character. sue's club. florida state the best road team, because they have had great guard play, they didn't get solid guard play against duke, duke's defense was dominating, and it dictated and

completely made florida state feel uncomfortable. sue successrel understands that her club will see pressure. courtny ward the point guard has to handle pressure and knock down open shots when north carolina goes to that high risk high reward defense, they will be open on the offensive end and make plays and courtny ward can make them. >> and the play in raleigh against nc state, in that game, freshman ra tea ward had 7 blocked shots. >> she is a 6'6" freshman, she changes the way north carolina can defend, whether they are running the traps in the front or rather it is a matchup zone at the back, she can change the game with her shot block ability and because she does that at such a high right, best in the acc, it allows north carolina to get in the up tempo and transition game because when she

blocks shots, mike, she keeps them in play. >>mike: she has been a different maker, they are ranked in the nation's top 25 and want to climb toward the top of the acc standings and they want to start tonight. our starting lineups and opening our starting lineups and opening tithe in florida

and north carolina. >>mike: back in chapel hill we are ready to go, florida state 4 and two, harriers the lineup, courtny ward, the only player double figures in that long division and angel gray and harvin leads in scoring and cassidy blayton that had two doubles doubles in a row and the tar heels four and one you will know tis lucas not in the lineup and white replaces her and degraffenreid coming off a good

game and bloomfield and chay. deb: in terms of ncaa selection and you can see one of the top scoring teams not only in the acc but the entire country as they always are under silver via hatchal and sue summerrel building on a great record. they are the shot two point teams which allows them under north carolina pressure to find open shots if they reverse the basketball which is something they have done since friday night. >>mike: the officials alisha grinder. florida state lost to duke. when they lost, they have bounced back awfully strong. deb: florida state will start

out a man-to-man defense. >>mike: they trap white. florida state coming out aggressive. deb: want to make north carolina work in the shot clock. you have to make them with penetration. >>mike: nice pass to laura broomfield. there's a lot of skill there. deb: if you are florida state this is what you are waiting for since friday. that is a backup and get back on the floor. >>mike: talking to the assistant coach chloe and she says they threw the plan out the window. they just want to be aggressive. good defense by clayton and here comes pressure from the tar heels. deb: north carolina picking up a

man-to-man defense. >>mike: florida state did not handle the pressure from duke very well on friday night. deb: 16 blue devils steals on 27 turnovers. that's the kind of night it was for florida state but duke totally dominated. >>mike: carolina playing man-to-man defense and the shot clock is under ten and here is courtny ward having a tough time. lost it and in the shot clock. angel gray just does get off of the shot. what a pass at the other end, a little too tall. and here comes that man-to-man north carolina defense. deb: and courtney ward the best of turnover guards in the league. didn't have a good night friday night and expect her to play a lot better. >>mike: and a nice drive

baseline by angel gray. deb: and north carolina has had a week off, mike, they have not played since last friday night. >>mike: silver via says she didn't like that she would rather play. deb: so would be the players. >>mike: inside to monroe, can't hit it. look at monroe battle for the offensive rebound and possession arrow to florida state. and a couple of substitutions for north carolina. deb: watch the aggressive move. reverse pivot. you work so hard to get to the front of the rim, you have got to put that one down. >>mike: outside, martinna woods in the game and lucas that has a

career high 33 points last monday night in the game now for north carolina. deb: and the reason why italy did not start tonight because she was late for class. and coach hassle won't have that. that's not the way they do things at north carolina. >>mike: pretty strong message. last time lucas started she exploded defensely. here is woods trying to get to shaga. what an athlete. deb: tough shot, the preseason pick for acc rookie of the year. >>mike: two times virginia high school player of the year out of alexandria, virginia. brevard in the game, what a game against north carolina a year ago with a florida state win and a scramble down on the court and

look at brevard take the ball away. deb: this pace favors north carolina at 80 points a game, this is the way they like to play, up and down. >>mike: brevard at 16 points and ten rebounds a year ago and the seminals win. brevard, a tough shot but good defense by north carolina and now it's lucas. deb: a terrific shot with contact with a spin off of the glass. emily lucas. >>mike: coming off the bests offensive game of her career. deb: she didn't even score a basket the first time against nc kate. >>mike: 28 in the second half as lowerra was fouled. deb: two on one. that was a tainted whistle because the shot went in, maybe they didn't call the foul. lots of contact, got to protect the shooter. >>mike: courtney ward will go to

the free-throw line and the foul was on chay. she had serious trouble a week ago. ward a very good free throw shooter, she has only missed ten free throws all year. deb: and a very good start for florida state, they have a switch going, you got duke game behind you and focus on north carolina and the challenges they bring. >>mike: a different look in the eye of florida state, got behind duke 20-2, here we are tied at 6. monroe got a hand on it and martina woods for three. and monroe who averages 7 rebounds a game. gray in some trouble, double team. and both teams started out strong. a lot on the line when you get to february, game a l

bi t at six.

>>mike: all tied at 6. we talked about how we are tied

at february. games mean a little bit more. deb: you talk about can you win the acc regular season. florida state, bottom line, they win today, and they walk out of the building tied for second with north carolina. and then you are playing for seating in the acc tournament which is so important as you move towards march and then of course both of the teams are ncaa caliber teams being ranked in the top 15 with the rpis and the quality wins. >>mike: and how about florida state, ten and one after a lost in the last two years. all three of the losses they have had, they have come back with a win. waltiea rolle. number 32 for north carolina. great shot blocker. here is monroe off of the glass. and brevard strong for the rebound. deb: she rebounded that in a

crowd and needed to go back up. watch it through off of the board and to monroe being more aggressive than she was in the duke game. looking for her offense. >>mike: martinna wood, a little too strong and ward falls down and knocked out-of-bounds by north carolina. deb: mike you are talking about being good on the road like florida state. you have to have good guard plays they dictate everything, they handle the pressure and take care of the basketball and they have to make better decision than courtney ward throwing it out-of-bounds. >>mike: ward has five assists and nine turnovers in that loss to duke on friday night. deb: we saw them play quite a

bit in the duke game friday night. >>mike: rolle there and ward to harvin. what a nice fake and drive to the bucket by angel gray. deb: numbers in tr, north carolina doesn't get back in time. if you push lu get mashups that you will favor in transition. >>mike: foul off of the bowel. deb: this is what i am talking about, you push in transition and get it in the baseline and you attack. >>mike: bra vard gets the foul on the first. there's an offensive foul call

there. i believe it is on rolle. that is her first. deb: a dead ball. north carolina will put some pressure on. >>mike: tried to knock it away from monroe and foul in the process. deb: we have seen a tougher mentality out of florida state in the early stages of this game and they will need it to tackle north carolina here. >>mike: the team does have a different look than the team with duke. here is monroe. harvin is open. and 3, martinna wood has the

rebound and harvin and good pass. deb: nice transition for the north carolina guards. they are good at that. >>mike: cetera degraffenreid not a good 3 point shooter. steps were called on bravard. deb: she has to continue to work the game low to high. she is beating rolle down the floor and they are getting early offense with deductions. >>mike: number three there in white is in the lineup. bravard. deb: gets consistent at that, that will be difficult for anybody to deal with in the acc

because of her 6'6" and her length. >>mike: they got a block there. does that alter things in the paint. deb: all of a sudden you can't overpenetrate against north carolina just because you beat your player off of the bounce, rolle is in there altering changes letting you know she will be a presence at the rim. >>mike: 46 blocks on the season for rolle. number two in that category in the acc. defensive monroe is number one. deb: monroe did not have a blocked shot in the duke game but waltiearo has been consistent in that part of the

game. >>mike: they are down there wanting to determine the possession there. they look like it is straightened out. now, they grinder will have to go to the monitor. looks like there is a timing issue. there's the block. deb: what they are going to say is that there was no change of possession. the blocked shot, north carolina never gathered possession of the basketball and they will put the shot clock at 22 and it will stay florida state basketball

good job of communicating by the officials. >>mike: here is harvin. can't get the 3. but look at harvin scramble. deb: brevard keeps the possession for florida state. >>mike: trying to get it to brevard and there is christian hunnicutt gets two here. white has been the most consistent shooter. deb: you have to make things happen and that's what florida state did there on a broken play. >>mike: hunnicutt from georgia

had five points against duke. white works it against courtney ward and look at ward get a hand on it. here is harvin on the breakout. deb: offensive rebounding and tip, deflections off those extra plays. florida state has to win those to pull the upset on the road. >>mike: harvin in double figures eight of the last ten games. deb: i don't like north carolina reflection there. >>mike: coach hatchell taking a time-out as the seminals have taken a six point lead. deb: i don't think she liked the shot selection, the steal and the lead ahead. it is a good job to make offense off of your defense for florida

state and another transition opportunity. there's no way sylvia hatchell wants anybody coming to her house and beating them. >>mike: the look on sylvia hatchell face is not a happy one. this is a team that is strong at home. 19 straight wins against acc teams. the last team to beat them was duke in the league. deb: they had to play over in the smith center the last year-and-a-half because of the renovations in the building. and this is always been a tough place to come in and play. >>mike: they won 25 of 26 in the smith center. moved back here to carmichael on september 29th and they have made it a gorgeous place to play. look at it, ward has the rebound

and bummed by chay shegog. she is in foul trouble and she picks up the second personal foul. 1144 first half. florida state looking pretty good against north carolina.

altiea >>mike: this is a different florida state team from friday night. what energy and focus in chapel hill. deb: a more connected group and confident that is making all of the hustle plays. if you want to knock off a top

ten team on their home court, every 50/50 ball has to go your way. you can see the passing and the energy that florida state has brought in the building tonight. they are converting on offensive rebounds and converting in the transition game and north carolina only has two offensive rebounds, two steals on five turnovers has allowed sue semrau's to get the playoffs. >>mike: and florida state 13 and north carolina 6. you don't often see that against the tar heels. five second call as hunnicutt could not get the ball inbounds. good defense by the tar heels. deb: look at the poise and the composition of sue se hr au knowing how upset she was and her team was on friday night.

>>mike: fighting through screens there is foul called on angel gray, her first. cetera degraffenreid picked up that ball. deb: chay shegog has not got that there. she has got to work harder for position. she is not demanding of the basketball. >>mike: well over five minutes since -- there's cetera degraffenreid so quick the junior from north carolina. deb: good execution and good poise by to get the shot they want off of the time out. >>mike: cetera degraffenreid has play steady against cincy state. 45 minutes and 16 points. deb: it's all about ball pressure for north carolina and

there is a gamble. >>mike: lucas went to the steal and didn't get it and clayton has four points. deb: remember about that high risk reward, lucas gambles and gets out of position and florida state attacks the rim. that's what

deb: a good drive by her. >>mike: deluzio, a nice hit by monroe. deb: cetera degraffenreid good there. look at deluzio draws three players and there's a kick and not the best pass but white has so much time to get it off. >>mike: when she has time to get that set, she is really a tough shooter. deb: all of the north carolina guards are difficult to set because she all shoot the 3 and terrific off of the bounce. >>mike: rough fin-prattt tried to go into traffic.

possession of the ball north carolina. bravard returning for clayton. deb: sue semrau has a rotation with clayton, bravard and monroe. >>mike: shot clock did not reset, 11 seconds on it. here is white. shot clock under five. cetera degraffenreid takes it to ward and bravard continues to give the team shots. deluzio open for two. deb: runs the floor wide and high and florida state is looking to shoot. >>mike: she missed last year after tearing the acl in her left knee. deb: i like to see florida state trying to keep north carolina

out of the middle. >>mike: there is monroe and another tie up and possession to florida state. deb: a lexa deluzio, you talk about the knee injury, look at the jump shot, pumps up in the mid range and the next time she runs down the flow i bet she is outside of the 3 point line. mike giving the team the great minutes off of the bench before the duke game on friday. she has been in double figures only four points against duke. and a great major in florida high school history before tearing up her knee. way to drop it by bravard. what a nice pass and florida state goes back. deb: north carolina at times with their pressure will not just have a hand in the lane.

they will have an entire elbow. tierra ruffin gets caught out of position. it's a nice lead, if you will. >>mike: gray hits the free throw and waltiea rolle pits up her second foul. largest lead for florida state at 8. deb: they have changed the defense between man and zone and mixed it up on north carolina forcing cetera degraffenreid into the shot clock. >>mike: shot clock under ten for cetera degraffenreid. and a kick out to ruffin-pratt. you don't see that often. 757 to go for the first half. 757 to go for the first half. florida f e crairy f oesnst.

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>>mike: monroe, 7 rebounds. deb: 4 rebounds over at duke the other night and waltiea rolle is continuing to make a difference on the back row. monroe who is second in the league in blocked shots did not block a shot friday night and has yet to block a shot tonight. >>mike: another interesting note, north carolina has yet to

go to the free-throw line in this game. cetera degraffenreid for three. that's only her second 3 pointer and acc play. deb: coming off of a time out. here comes the half-court trap. >>mike: florida state the best two point shooting team in the league yet to hit one. oh, nice pass. rolle running the floor exceptionally well and good defense by florida state as lucas looks to get it inside to her. deb: ten rule texas pass. that's the question. so is it a good pass or not? you have to know your personnel. is she a player that can catch it on the move? >>mike: harvin on the baseline.

deb: look how quick north carolina is there. >>mike: cetera degraffenreid was fouled. i have said this before. you don't recognize or really appreciate her speed until you see it in person. deb: she has contact and the spin move in women's college basketball has been an emphasis and it has been called to travel and that time the officials did not think that she traveled and now she gets to the free-throw line. >>mike: we talked before when we talked about the carolina team there two guards cetera degraffenreid and italy lucas are tied. cetera degraffenreid at 82%. deb: remember, mike, if this game is tight and north carolina has a lead at the end, they are tough to come back. >>mike: not a good pass to

bravard. turnover. here comes the tar heels. lucas for 3. deb: craft on the offensive board comes right from the top and sets the screen and rolls to the bucket. gets two on it and can't hang on but it allows north carolina on a dead ball out-of-bounds to set the pressure. >>mike: great effort by broomfield second in the acc in rebounds. been playing well in the paint. deb: i have been watching how florida state handles the pressure, wouldn't you think north carolina would pressure on the floor. >>mike: you would think. deb: but silverya hatchell told me before the game that she was so concerned about florida state's ability to shoot the 3 she didn't want to start the game that way. >>mike: ruffin-pratt again off

of the glass. deb: that's a great pass right there was skip through the middle of the zone. you got to make plays. north carolinas has had an opportunity to make some shots. she is off of the glass. a little indecision by tarera ruffin-pratt. i don't think she has used the glass enough. >>mike: chase aty clayton picked up a foul. you look at florida state being in the league in field goal defense and best in the league in 3 point percentage. deb: that's the reason why silverya hatchell did not want to start the game full-court and that is not who they are and they won't change.

but duke does and they do it very well. >>mike: italee lucas last time she did not score. deb: we saw last monday how quickly she can score points in a hurry. i like to call it a flurry in a hurry. mike 28 in the second half, that was very impressive. five second call as mcgraw arc freshman from charlotte in the game had no where to go. deb: a good defensive game time move. sue semrau saw the rookie come in, she is going to trap her on the sidelines. a good call by florida state. >>mike: wide open gray does not get the roll.

and here comes lucas, watch out. lucas falls down and push by angel gray and she picks up her second. deb: she fouled but she did not lose the handle. >>mike: no. deb: had a chance to visit with italee lucas and she was getting shots in and what a fine lady. two years as a rookie she wouldn't walk across the court to say hello, great maturity in how much she has grown and how much she loves the basketball that her dad taught her. >>mike: foul away from the ball and you know what else against her, didn't start and had to be disappointed about that and some academic things she did not take care of but i'm so impressed with the way her attitude is about this. deb: you got to go to class. that's a rule and everybody knows it and she is handling that bit of discipline well. she has come out here and let

the game come to her and she hasn't forced anything offensively. >>mike: waltiea rolle as north carolina is in the bonus. a lot of arc on that free throw. one for two. florida state has led most of the way. deb: north carolina picking up the pressure. there is a steal. >>mike: a big one and it goes to lucas, great catch. deb: italee lucas is so athletic that she tried to catch it with the left hand and tried to scoop it in. great steal by north carolina, watch this. you are going to believe this when we asked italee lucas what to work on, she said i would like to get better as a left

handed floater how about the scoot shot. >>mike: looks good to me and laura broomfield the sophomore from maryland has struggled from three point shooter in acc play. pass and there it goes to chelsea davis. freshman into the game. deb: good find. >>mike: and good defense by monroe. deb: that's not a good choice offensely. >>mike: ward for three. deb: this is the pace that north carolina loves. >>mike: look at cetera degraffenreid's speed. offensive speed cetera affe has now two al watus

battled injury. she is telling her coach she is okay. deb: she gets her feet tangled up with cetera degraffenreid. >>mike: alexa deluzio red shirted last year as you see the sleeve on the leg. two times high school all american. bonus for robertson warren. deb: i'm not sure it's an ankle. we will get an injury report as soon as we can. it might be that she kicked her. >>mike: hunnicutt got four

points off of the bench. florida state has led most of the way here in this first half. boy, what a job by harvest to hunnicutt. hunnicutt now with six but give harvin some credit for the pass as sylvia hatchell has called a 30 second time out. look at the transition points. deb: freeze it right here, that is something you never see in north carolina. the visiting team is beating them. and coach hatchell wanted a foul right there. florida state has just been tough. they have been stronger with the basketball and come up with every hustle opportunity and every loose ball has gone their

way. >>mike: and you saw that play by alysha harvin. she has become leader on the team and there is alexa deluzio. deb: it like there's a kick. watch cetera degraffenreid's foot. >>mike: came down on it wrong. lucas for three. big bucket by emily lucas. deb: a great call by coach hatchell. >>mike: ward to harvest. tried to get by. traveling called on al ysha harvin. got a good game going in chapel hill. 324 to go in the first half in

the five points seminal lead.

>>mike: acc basketball is brought to you by geico. by pepsi. refresh everything. and by wendy's you know when it's real. florida state has not shot the

ball particularly well. the seminals shooting 39% from the field. 0 from 7 for three but the hustle plays, they have one them all. >>deb: that's the reason why florida state has the five point lead and because florida state is 0 for 7 outside of the arc north carolina will bring pressure on the possessions. that was something coach hatchell was worried about but she can see it is not paying off. >>mike: ruffin-pratt to lucas. not that time and lucas tried to follow the shot and lucas is fouled. foul will be on courtney ward. that's her second. >>deb: italee lucas can hurt you so many ways offensively. outside of the arc and off of the bounce. of course you already mentioned, mike, what a good free throw

shooter she is. six times or more she has had 20 or more points and 30 point game on monday night, 33. >>mike: you saw monroe come in for florida state and what a game she has had. monroe number 50 has 8 rebounds. >>deb: watch the trap the first pass to the wing. >>mike: harvin over lucas,. >>deb: as soon as we say 0 for 7 they knock down a three. >>mike: har vin a good 3 point shooter. tar heels turn it over. harvin back to ward off of the glass. >>deb: three on one and courtney ward is saying as a point guard i gave it to you, harvin, you got to finish the play, don't overpass. >>mike: look at sylvia hatchell,

the intensity in that huddle. not happy at all on those last couple of possessions. alisha harvin a start with a three. >>deb: can you tell it is february in the acc? watch this turnover, not a good decision and look at the numbers for florida state. three on one and harvin has a layup and florida state gets a break right there. >>mike: harvin is one of the leaders and calls the meetings, a real leader with the seminals. >>deb: off the trap, nice. >>mike: can't hit the reverse layup and there's harvin to rebound. harvin a senior having a bill impact and tried to get it to

monroe. >>deb: everybody in the building knew she was trying to throw it there. >>mike: lucas, 3. rodriguez in the game and got the ball, number ten and she travels. and rodriguez a freshman from spain. >>deb: missed the first 14 games of the season with an amateur issue and played from the ca nearry islands, she is learning how to play the game at this pace. >>mike: had a season high of 11 against clemson has not scored in the last two games.

una minute and a half to play. largest lead for florida state. clock at five. good job by lucas. >>deb: shots that north carolina usually makes are not falling so they will have to rely on the defense to get a few more shots. >>mike: here is alexa deluzio and nice drive by her who has four points. rodriguez whistled for the foul, her first. >>deb: alexa deluzio a good looking freshman, a little pump fake. that's on a roll. north carolina switches in their man-to-man defense and on alexa deluzio, when you are a guard and got a big play you go to the

basketball. >>mike: you have to respect alexa deluzio's throws, able to put the ball on the floor and go by her defenders. cetera degraffenreid again one again, two of four from the line. and a 10-point lead for florida state. and here's ward. and a foul called on on italee lucas. lucas and chay shegog with two personal fouls for north carolina in the first half. >>deb: sylvia hatchell says one

shot, one more possession. >>mike: white comes back in the game. she is a very good shooter. and alexa deluzio from florida. in acc play is eight from nine from the free-throw line. >>deb: a little pressure there by florida state. >>mike: florida state has been great on the line. five for five as cetera degraffenreid getting the ball from the tar heels bench. 12 point lead by florida state. five seconds left. here is lucas missed everything and florida state will head to

the locker room with their largest lead of the game. it is a 12-point, 36-24 and what a different game from florida state than the one friday night at duke. what have you seen that florida state is doing differently? >>deb: they took better care of the basketball and defensive on the end and every hustle play went their way and that's the way you knock out a top ten team. >>mike: very aggressive for florida state. playing like they have nothing to lose. north carolina has to be a little shell-shocked. >>deb: north carolina has to do a better job working inside out work, the zone and get to the short corner and execute better and i look for north carolina pressure to ramp up in the second half. >>mike: we will see and we'll have more half-time as two

national ranked teams going at it and so far florida state has delivered a big