good start. they withstood that surge you see a lot at mckale, where they pounce on you. they are staying tight, down one. but i like the way they are playing early. neither team is shooting well. oregon at 40%. and arizona at 37.5%. >> barry: arizona, just 1 of 7 behind the arc. going with the original starting lineup now. >> don: the l.a. schools fwam to eugene, pretty effective for him. try to trap, they want turnovers and want to the get shooters. >> barry: jumping out of wise. and a pretty good look. knocks it down. >> don: there's a reason you jump out on wise. that's what happens if you don't get in there. the senior, a couple good looks

earlier. >> barry: 8-0 run now. and quick rebound. here is parrom. big moment in the game now for the oregon ducks. >> don: i think so. an 8-0 run and offensively, a decent look and success in the painted area. >> barry: another good look and i won't go. >> don: going push it down their throat. >> barry: wide open. >> don: singler is a nice player for oregon. doesn't get aton of minutes. but he was big in the game, getting offensive rebounds and extra possessions. nice looking young player. >> barry: i think so too. very steady and came up big against ucla. and good job on the take away by

singler. and horne gets on the floor and the possession era is going to belong to the oregon bucks. >> don: tries to stop it back to singler and got to time a time-out. they keep the ball on the possession arrow, and a time. still have the ar roy moving forward. nice zwrob get up and create the turnover. >> barry: porter back in the game. the ducks, right now, singler, armstead going porter and humphrey. humphrey, a good shooter too. >> don: a lot of looks because attention paid to porter. and humphrey back to the ucla game, two gigantic three-pointers in overtime.

>> barry: a lead for humphrey, and now armstead, five on the shot clock and a forced three by porter and a follow. good look at it. >> don: that was deep three by porter. >> barry: another time-out on the floor. 7:43 and still a two-point ball game. when we come back, the most improved players of the pac-10 conference this year.

>> barry: 20-18. we want to remind you saturday, big pac-10 double header. women's hoops, crosstown rivals. the trojans and lady bruins and washington state against the california golden bears. action at 2:00 eastern. 11:00 pacific. let's talk about the guys you think are the most improved players. >> don: we can probably add more. landry field, the most improved, shocking. probably the pac-10 player of the year green, the sophomore to go with him. and big games for arizona state, and thompson, 40-point games and sc, the improves they have, leading the pac-10 in rebounding now.

all five of those guys, tremendous improvement. >> barry: michael improved from his freshman year to sophomore year. and still aways to go. you can see that he has the goods. and whistled before that, and a reach in foul on armstead. >> don: back to the man-to-man. they went to that zone, arizona was schooled and getting good looks in up they got the lead early because they started the game in man to man. it will be interesting to see how long he stays with him. >> barry: wise, and leaves williams and a nice rejaex and a save by armstead. they will say he's on the line. >> don: fourth in the league in blocked shots and that time, derrick williams, wouldn't find his body and had to go to the rim and didn't get contact and here is dunigan, get that out of here and that is what dunigan provides, the length of the rim. did a nice job there.

>> barry: there is horne in traffic. taken away by humphrey. going to go all the way. and the rebound good no call i think. >> don: ones the wing that is williams and a foul. and offense. here's the thing. the emphasis this year in the pac-10 n you're underneath the rim, it's no longer a charge. one end and the other. take a loom. parrom to williams and dunigan, he is set. hard to tell if he surnd beneath the rim. that is a judgment call by the financial. this end a good no call. hard to tell if they are in front of the rim or underneath the rim. >> barry: used by one of the players on the air. used a word, we apologize for

that. live television, we apologize. >> don: game has settled in more to a half court game now. digging in defensively. not much transition of late. >> barry: almost another turnover. and back to momo jones, back in the ball game. and horne on the baseline, and get it in. good effort by horne. >> don: horne has been quiet early. and put it on the deck. and his able toy knock out threes and surprised oregon. >> barry: horne reaching around jacobs that time. >> don: horne is good for derrick williams, and a monster down there on the block. and horne, shot the most threes on the team. and you see jeremy jacobs running out there to contest. and horne puts it down to score.

>> barry: arizona. and armstead giing up the wing on the basket to jacob. >> don: good job by armstead. he is looking to push and in the half court, looking to get in the paint. >> barry: another first year player. spent a year in junior college. and parrom, can't get it to rebound and armstead will push it again. stutter step and has it taken away by wise. wise ahead to parrom, two on one. parrom all the way, should have given that up. and back and in. >> don: momo again on the offensive glass. that wasn't in the scouting report. he gets the offensive board. two easy hoops for momo on the offensive glass. >> barry: he is tough. jacobs and humphrey, and pulls the trigger, and misses off the

right side. and jones, a rebound. >> don: oregon has got to be care wonderful the contested threes in the half court. had success driving the ball. they have to continue doing it. >> barry: horne guarded by humphrey and back for jones. jones, cut off, leads in and can't get it to go. and jacob. porter, around jones, and around, and picked up by parrom and reaches foul. good effort by parrom. one of the guy always around the ball. >> don: had a nice opportunity to catch and finish. porter on the baseline, looking to draw defenders and not real aggressive to the ball. he's got want it and get it and he is the biggest guy on the floor with the most length.

can dominate the length in traffic. >> barry: lavender back in the ball game for arizona and wise are a little shot. >> don: nic wise again, they play him for the three. puts it down and eludes the defender and takes it all the way to the rim. >> barry: seven in the ball game and a quick time-out. a 30-second time-out. and while we have a time-out, we want to remind you have an poit wtw tts t10ciipa s et tamth tascechh ug e th. w-1g ck onnt league. >> don: if you are ever going to go to the pac-10 tournament this is the year to go. it's as wide open as it's ever

been. >> barry: one game compete tonight, arizona state defeated orr o'state. california, four minutes to go in front of washington by ten. huskies closing that gap a little built. and time running out in that game. and washington state, doing a job on stanford at stanford. we will see that. >> don: making a late charge here. washington state, beat up on the arizona team we're watching tonight last saturday and now taking care of stanford in palo alto. that will take them to 6-6. >> barry: jacob a guy always around the ball as well. >> don: you give yourself opportunities, and you are shoots from closer, and the advantage to the oregon team to get in there and get extra possessions. >> barry: fogg back up top and

lavender. and jones, baseline, and hill, reverdicted by dunigan and into the hands of porter, and tried to give it up on the wing and defensively by lavender. >> don: good job and not a good decision by porter. >> barry: so another time-out on the floor with 3:31 remaining to be played. watch dunigan. keeps it in play. that's the reaunthe wi

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>> barry: 26-22 ball game. 3:31 remaining and sunday, first it will be cal and washington in a women's showdown. then the crosstown rivalry continues as ucla battles usc in men's college basketball. the action at 5:00 eastern, 2:00 pacific. let's take a moment and look at the pac-10 leaders this year. and unfamiliar faces, actually. >> don: what do you know? a couple guys in the league leading. deangelo casto, having a big night in palo alto and seth favrer, in the oregon state dome. leads the conference in steals. >> barry: here, 26-22 ball game.

williams, got that one out. and good job by williams. >> don: second time they ran that play and second time they have the bucket. and back-door action along the baseline. >> barry: look and wise with the rebound for arizona. >> don: porter has unlimited range. and if the first couple go down, he will get it going. >> barry: 0 for 4 beyond the arc. 1 for 6 in the game. and teondre williams, not a lot of limits of late, getting some tonight. armstead, the elbow, hard. and the rebound finally snatched by hill. i think we're going to get a

reach-in on singler. coming up on the acura halftime report, the final score, the hoops and highlights and nic wise will dom strait ball dribbling skills. coming up in a few minutes, the acura halftime report. >> don: that was fun, got to spend time with nic. one of the better ball handers and we is have see him go coast to coast. and another guy that points at the value of staying in school. and better every year, a fifth year player. >> don: you know what? it's not easy. the fourth arizona four in four years, it's tough. one of the better players, and new offenses and new philosophies. and sean miller talks about the job that nic wise has done this

year. >> barry: absolutely. biggest lead of the game for arizona. good job by lavender. and fogg across the lane, in the corner for wise for three. >> don: nice job by fogg to penetrate, similar to what oregon was doing and it was a matter of time before nic wise got it going here. >> barry: ten in the ball game now, and singler, has the answer. >> don: big shot for singler. get ag fwra oregon and double digits, cuts it backing to eight. and oregon wants to stay in this, they got to close the first half and keep it in single digits. >> barry: wise up top again, 1:25 remaining in the half. 15 on the shot clock. hill tried to chop that down. and hit singler right in the

chest. lavender, good look for three. how is that for use of the clock? >> don: starting to open it you up now. and lavender, knocked down a big three. >> barry: both ends. >> don: didn't want the building to come alive before halftime if you're oregon. a couple threes have gotten the fans out of their seat. >> barry: fourth possession for the oregon ducks. and looked on by fogg. a good three-point shooter too. and leaves it for williams, and had a pick and he gets it, wow. >> don: big shot, teondre williams to keep it in sing the digits. most of the arizona fans sits back down. important for them not to let arizona go into halftime with a

huge dose of momentum and they knocked down a couple shots here. >> barry: none bigger than the one. he hasn't played much lately. >> don: see the shot clock up there? two, one and bingo, right as it goes off. but the importance of oregon keeping touch. and you use that sing the digit number as a reference. you don't want it to be double pfoe stth.6co rein s ae sin thbean er hao fs their game yet. and aontat aly nnig d inllr t

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cal with a one game lead over five teams including the huskies. the first half, jerome randall going to work. pretty move. behind the back and cal beats washington, 93-81. sun devils, another team one game back. they beat the beavers and palo alto. the cougars lead. coming up, rick's tea loui. ch lon tch f e cas? %95+:ñ:ñax:ó

welcome back to the acura halftime report. rick pitino says there is no truth to the rumors he was contacted about a job. and there is a jam. and mix it up down low. and big win over louisville. and notre dame and seton hall. and an open look off the mark. get another crack. and scott, his throw no good. seton hall escapes with a win. highlights from thursday's game, tune into the "final score" presented by burger king tonight following pac-10 hoops on many of the regional sports network.

we still have another half to play in tucson where arizona leads. after the break, more of the acura halftime report. is aptaakin arein lr ta

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com str we welcome you back to the acura halftime report. it's halftime here with the arizona wildcats lead the ducks by eight. it's a 36-28 ball game. i'm barry tompkins along with don maclean. we have been catching nic wise and it doesn't come without days and weeks and months of doing it and doing it and doing it. >> don: you don't get to be a good handler of the basketball by accident. it takes a lot of work. you never know when you need that handle ho to go coast to

coast for a game winner. we got a chance to catch up with nic wise yesterday. he told us the things he likes to do to improve his handle. tell me about the drills, i take five minutes before practice and it doesn't take long. >> let's take a look at it. >> start off with a crossover. between your legs, behind the back. crossover, between the legs, bnld the back. >> pretty kbood. how come two balls? >> it makes it harder. >> work on your ball hanling to hit a shot like nic wise. >> watch him here. see him switch hands? take it to bookt and score. he has ten in the ball game and his team leads by eight. reaunthe wi

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take a look at the numbers at the end of the first half. there's the most important numbers, 36-28. arizona by eight. didn't see them shoots lights out, but oregon, 39%. the number that jumps out, 0 for 0 for oregon at the free-throw line. didn't get there. >> shocking, based on the fact they were in attack most. and averaged 21 a game. see in the second half if they can get free throw attempts. >> barry: the officials' credit,

they have been letting them play. and arizona with the first possession. and williams with a finish. what a dish by wise. >> don: penetration and nic wise draws a defender. good start for arizona in the second half. >> barry: jacob has it swatted away. and wise, snatches it away from williams. and been able to get a start here. seven points in the first half. >> don: early too. >> barry: nicely again, and horne, couldn't finish and it they will get a foul. on horne. >> don: i like the aggressiveness of arizona here early. a little screen roll action. and derrick williams again. rolling to the basket, tries to flush this one over teondre williams. nice job getting the foul. >> barry: it was not horne.

it was williams. and again, great hand defensively and a nice pass down low and stepping in front, williams and out of bounds to arizona. sloppy with the ball for the ducks. >> don: oregon has got to gather themselves to start the second half. sloppy with the ball, allowing too much penetration and i think sean miller probably addressed that. at halftime, when oregon is with their man, they got to keep it in front of them. >> barry: nic wise a good look at the basket. and parrom and out of bounds. >> don: nice skrob by parrom to stay with it. and he stayed with and it got it to roll after the hanover dunigan. and what i talked about in the

first half, dunigan will get with two hands. >> barry: williams saw dunigan on him. and tries the shot. here is horne up top. much smaller, trying to work on it. and nice read that time for williams. >> don: good action for arizona. and williams again. >> barry: another turnover and the biggest lead for arizona and the ball. >> don: horne. williams for the finish. >> barry: and ernie kent wants a time to stop the leading. and the 40-28 ball game. arizona over on. duck to lves

>> barry: welcome back. the arizona lead, 12 points. join us sunday. the cal bears, already a winner tonight against the cougars, and last time, randall went for a career high 39 in the bears 15-point win. don and i will be an hond 4:00 eastern, 1:00 pacific. washington state and california at stanford. playing washington state. and washington state, has been leading by 17 points in that game. and stanford now on a 9-0 run.

closing in. >> don: oregon back to the zone. man to man. and too much penetration from arizona. >> barry: that is fogg. good luck look and couldn't get it to fall. and the rebound. >> don: they need a stop to stabilize the game. >> barry: almost turned it over again. and fouled by williams. that's going to. >> barry: third foul on williams. >> don: good decision to go to dunigan, derrick williams has had success early in the sec half. go back at them with dunigan and that time, went up strong and got the foul. he's got to knock down the free throws. oregon off the snide here. >> barry: first free throw of the game for the ducks and that missed badly.

humphrey is going to come into the oregon lineup. >> don: this place has never been easy to shoot free throws in. they have the student section there in the second half right behind the basket. >> barry: one out of two for dunigan. >> don: a good looking stroke for a big guy. >> barry: porter on the bench. and talked to my mike dunlap who was at arizona last year. william, offensive rebound. >> don: rebound by derrick williams. >> barry: right to williams, off the baseline, and credit nic wise. >> don: he's been unbelievable to start the second half with penetration and easy dumpoffs. and derrick williams a free pass

to the rim. >> barry: almost another steal. and that time, misses a three-pointer, and armstead, tries to get the floater up off the wing. and wise just recovered the loose ball. fogg joins dunigan, and knew that williams would be open to go the basket. >> don: this is a derrick williams dunkathon in the second half. >> barry: recognizes it. >> don: sean miller with good points at halftime. and if they are in the man or if they are not, let's blow by and dump off. they have gotten three or four where it's been an easy drop off. and half, 4 of 4. three dunks and one layup for the arizona wildcats.

>> barry: this is horne, wise, baseline, and williams down the lane again. and williams, there's that and one and it has been the derrick williams show. >> don: unselfish of arizona to get it to the big horse on the baseline. pump fake, gets the contact and finishes. parrom with the extra pass. good poise by williams to not travel, show the ball, take the hit, knock it down. i feel like we got get a nickname that has to do with and one. that is your job for next week. >> barry:ly think about that. he has made all 11 points that arizona scored in the second half. armstead with a blow by. >> don: armstead with the

penetration. and armstead needs to do more to get his team back in this. >> barry: there is parrom, the penetration around this time. and again, williams, the extra step that time. >> don: same play, different angle. and parrom on the penetration. arizona has been in the lane every trip in the second half. williams tried to take a dribble to get himself in the balance, took an extra step. >> barry: humphrey from the corner and set off the window. >> don: you don't want to exhale if you're arizona. excuse me, oregon has capable players, explosive players and that three ball, porter, always in play. >> barry: fogg, three, misses. armstead runs down a rebound. and stepping in front, parrom and new they have big numbers, three on one and parrom with a finish. >> don: arizona is just more up

and into it the second half. they are getting turnovers, steals, going the other way. too easy. >> barry: they are going get wise this time. but arizona really got out of box quickly in the second half. and they are blowing the doors off oregon now, 16-point lead for the wildcats, 49-33 ball game. unselfish play and great finishes.

>> barry: it's a 49-33 ball game. and we're going to take this time to recognize our oberto deef jerky all fa of the game. and he has 18. the ball game. >> don: i was going say, he's opinion the recipient of a lot of that. it's been catch and finish all night. the second half. arizona guards just going right down the lane. oregon defenders, con veng on the penetrator. you got to catch and it finish it. they are making the extra pass here in the second half.

unselfish, and sean miller talked about that yesterday. tough, hard nosed, unselfish basketball. >> barry: there is humphrey and a grab. we have momo jones. momo is used to playing in games like that where that is a no call. >> don: see if oregon can get back into this. >> barry: humphriehumphries. jones, good look to the corner for three. >> don: that time, inside out. and momo camping out in the corner with a knock down. it was the kickout to the shooter. >> barry: look at nic wise,

reach in and grab the ball and possession arrow with oregon. it could play nonetheless by wise. >> don: good spacing by arizona. and gets buried in the corner for the outlet pace base. and someone else along the baseline. that is where you are supposed to be as an outlet. >> barry: armstead behind the screen. and the lead this time, going to the basket, wilson and one. >> don: pretty good action. armstead in the side ball screen, comes off. he is left-handed. but the throw back to wilson for the finish and one. i'd like to see armstead has been the guy tonight so far for orr. he's made things happen m six points, five assists. and test been the setup guy. interesting to see if they pull the ball in his hands for the

rest of the game. >> barry: first three point of the game. and that is a balance shot by wise. snatched out by jacobs. this is wilson and he's going to take the extra step. >> don: tough catch by wilson in transition. the freshman and highly hera heralded. and you got reach up, put it on the ground. tough play for a young player. >> barry: sixth turnover for oregon here in the second half. >> don: three-quarter court pressure from oregon. >> barry: blocked foul here. they're going to get porter. >> don: ernie can't try situation. arizona come out flying in the locker room in the sec half. trying to give arizona different

looks, porter back in the game now. see if he can get going. >> barry: cutoff. and there's the turnover. and humphrey away with it. and humphrey, the pick controls ball and loose, picked up and in the hands of joan. three or one, and pour on one. and parrom, the trailer. >> don: nice look by momo. they waited and a good finish by parrom. >> barry: arizona defense is carried here in the second hatch. humphrey across the lane, and humphrey gets the rebound back. and porter, long three. >> don: when his feet are down and he's got time, they usually go in. and that time, have plenty time. wasn't rushed or contested. he knocked it down.

that is his first three of the night i believe. >> barry: one of five. that does tie him for -- >> don: that's why i was checking. >> barry: it does tie him. and jones didn't finish and can't control it and a foul over the top. his first th night andt does time withenne remember him? >> don: yes,

stern, 11:00 pacific. take a look at the women's standings. stanford running away and hiding. number two in the country. having only lost to connecticut. ucla played well. eight up and three down in the conference. 15-7 overall. and sc, they will hook up in that game saturday. 56-39, arizona lead. >> don: they've been impressive, arizona, in the second half. they came flying out of the

locker room and they have taken advantage of oregon on the defensive end. >> barry: drops it down to dunigan, just got it up over natyazhko. >> don: thought we would see more of that. and good job by the arizona defense. >> barry: a great pass by fogg. natyazhko with a finish. and again, fogg. >> don: the exact same play as last time. the lane is wide open now for whatever arizona wants. >> barry: here is momo jones and the cats once more. they need it now by 17 with the ball. they have found something that works and they are going back to it. >> don: anything in the paint is working now for arizona. >> barry: knocked out of bounds. by wilson and we'll take a time-out with 11:41 remaining.

we talk about arizona being unselfish. momo jones, the lead. and finish by parrom and they lead by 17. pla [cheerd ap]

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sixth man of the game. and that is lamont momo jones. >> don: we opened the show talking about him and thought we would see that. the dropoff and the outside shooting. barry, he has six rebounds. three offensively. and two putbacks in the first half. momo, giving us a little bit more tonight. he is going to be a good player here. and graduating after this year. and it will be his show to run. he's had bumps to start the season. he is starting to figure it out. and it will be huge if they request get over the hump and win the conference title. >> barry: like nic wise. motel 6, we'll leave the light on for you. and couldn't hang on to it.

and off williams, and stanford back from a 17-point deficit to beat washington state, 60-58. great game and great win. >> don: this year in the pac-10, nothing is surprising. >> barry: exactly. jacob, horne, his pocket. >> don: arizona up and into it. keeping them in front. nothing easy for oregon. >> barry: another steal. jones got a handle on that one. to the wildcats. arizona, 18 first half points in the paint. and the second half, we have not reached the halfway point of the second half. >> don: give credit to arizona trying to get into the paint. and oregon hasn't done the job defensive will to keep arizona out of the paint. >> barry: just got rammed into horne.

here is humphrey ahead of everybody. and a foul. and hut humphrey at the line. he was going for the ball. >> don: good hustle by lavender to get back. and i thought he was going let him go. you're right. make him earn it at the foul line. >> barry: humphrey at the free-throw line. and down by 17. i think you got to give ip up for sean miller. a big halftime adjustment. >> don: you got give it up to sean miller for halftime adjustments and also the imprint he was put on the program in not a full year and has his team plays and the discipline and the toughness and the execution and the things we mentioned in the broadcast.

it's hard to do in a year. usually it takes time and they are playing really well now. >> barry: a good look and couldn't get it to go. and williams runs it down. i know you were impressed watching practice yesterday. >> don: you are impressed watching the xavier team. wasn't surprised when me was being named and mentioned for the high profile jobs. and he winds up in arizona. >> barry: that is williams, fouled, going hard to the bakt. that was fouled hard. and there's a look at a guy we all have come to know and love, lute olson, what a job he has done here. >> don: i have been coming here for seven or eight years now doing broadcasts. and i used to think, the games we used to do here with sean

elliot and chris mills. take a look at the turn around that lute olson, tones of success here at arizona. >> barry: i tell you. never had a losing season. >> don: fun games. you accepted the challenge to come in here and take on this environment. it was a heck of a lot of fun. >> barry: always had a great respect for lute, and the way he dealt with us and knew what we were looking for. helping us out in the games. >> don: what did he tell you they were going to do with me? >> barry: no answer. no answer. >> don: sean miller again, if he can continue to get his team to improve, i mean, he's not talking about we have done good this year. we have done better than people

expected. he's like, you know, we can win this thing. and the improvement they made from the start of the year to now has been shocking. >> barry: that's right. and they are getting better. they are going in a positive direction. >> don: when you are a young team and playing young guys and young guys that have been in the program, stepping into major rolls, there is going to be inconsistency. and knocks down a three. if you stay with it and keep teaching and guys are willing to learn, that is when your team gets better and that is absolutely what is going on here as arizona right now. >> barry: that is right. all under classmen. and one senior on the team. parrom, to the finish. and parrom signed with him when he was in vegas and was released

from his better to join sean miller here. >> don: he will take the guards out to dinner tonight, don't you? >> barry: absolutely. >> don: he has done nothing but catch and it dunk it tonight. >> barry: we talked about sean mill interwhos had influences are like. and he worked with great people. and at miami of ohio. went on to pittsburgh and at north carolina state. and then he was at xavier and now here he is in arizona. and as we said earlier, 16 years he's been a coach, either a head coach or assistant coach. and that is good. >> don: catching him yesterday at practice. i have known him for a long time. and he toasted me on a recruiting trip to pittsburgh, it's good balance with him. and the intensive level from him

staff and the players in practice, it's unbelievable. i think he knows how to balance it out. you can't be the fiery guy and the lunatic off the time and he found that balance and found a way to get throw his players. >> barry: easy move across the lane and easy score. remember, oregon didn't have a free throw before the half moch now they had eight of them. the bad news, they only made two. and missed that outside shot of humphrey and a double dribble on williams. that's why you have guards. >> don: outlet the ball. arizona, no hurry. you got a 17-point lead. and will probably try to start shorting the game. take air out of the ball. and sean miller a opportunity to play some of the young guys a little bit younger than he normally would with a big lead. >> barry: that is a foul, going

to be called from behind. i think they're going to get hill, not absolutely certain. they do get hill. will put jacob at the line. free throw shooting iffer jacob could be an adventure too. >> don: oregon, not bad as a team. there are guys that get fouled a lot. and that struggle a bit at the line. but oregon is just over 70% as a team. not bad. i mean, just ton, coming down the second half, i feel like oregon didn't get off to a good start. we talked about the good start to start the game and the game was pretty stabilized in the first half and they just had no answer. arizona has been really good. >> barry: wise with a three and humphrey, with the rebound. and teondre williams.

wilson. and a stutter step from the corner fehr three. no. and stole that rebound and gets the outlet pass. horne on the wing. wantses to catch up with it and saves it. >> don: how about momo on the glass tonight? dennis rodman. >> barry: teondre williams and wise will wait for help. >> don: that's senior leadership there. he understands time and score now. not in a hurry. don't need to force it. back it up and finish the game out. >> barry: wise again, baseline, and jones, jones into the lane. and off balance, he will take it, thank you very much. >> don: his strength as a freshman.

able to take the con ten. and a good lower body. >> barry: they are going to count that basket. and good job on the defense. thought he had his feet set. not quite. sean miller's team leads by 17. we will be back. dorust yoorke ou d t le foan id wn th theh a perspac fthert, use l mos... in the samnism an as. ah, an r flig of o. el lme o respect me. use, f beof t. f [ blowlank juste on tt flut. e to ♪ hi. - ade wewhy y. f weericline

>> barry: nic wise, one of the guys you can count on in the clutch. last year, leading by two in overtime. and wise this three-pointer at the buzzer. they win, 83-82. two nights later, north carolina state state. and game tied and clinches a dramatic arizona state win. 76-74. january 31st against cal, outscored the bears 8-3 in the final 53 seconds including this one. the end the game. and first place in the pac-10. with that win, a 76-72 victim i have. >> it's something my dad instilled in me when i was younger, playing little league and had a chance to make a game winner and pass the shot to someone else and he pulled me aside and said fx you want to be a win interbe the best player you can be, you have be the guy

taic to the last shot and put it on your shoulders. >> barry: he has done that with the arizona team. and that's what i like. it's a cliche to go to him. that's the way it plays. >> don: the buzzer beaters are fun. that one, against cal n touch with cal. if arizona doesn't win that game, they are too far back to win the championship. he's been doing it all year. >> barry: jones, a handle on that basketball. nice pass again, this time, the shot blocked. >> don: you got dunk that ball. and more confident, he probably will. >> barry: hill with a rebound. >> don: i like solomon hill. i think he will be a good player at arizona.

does everything well. not a great shoot interknow how to score. can defend multiple positions. and coming off the bench, he was a starter last season. and comes off and still doing a nice job. >> don: the score -- everybody accept one player. and everybody comes back and jones, as you said, will step into that role. it's going to be a good basketball team. >> barry: absolutely. they understand what they are trying to do at the beginning of the season instead of taking a third or half of the year to figure out what sean miller wants. they will be up and start next season. >> don: wilson for jacob. can't get it to go. and another rebound. >> barry: jacob a nice dimension playing off him. and good effort rebounder on the weak side.

and allowed him to be more open. arizona has done a nice job. has got it going for oregon. maybe armstead a little. but good defensive speed for arizona tonight. >> barry: lavender with a look from the corner and jacob, runs it back and ahead. sim, off balance with that shot won't go in and hill with another rebound. >> don: talked about him losing the weigh. that made him active on the glass. >> barry: there he go, underneath jacob and couldn't get the ball to fall. will go to the free-throw line. and sunday, pac-10 football continues. and another exciting double header california and washington in women's hoops and then continues with ucla and usc. the action at 5:00 eastern. 2:00 pacific.

this sunday, double drip. tsr d une. heisrear , t upfo do anus, aon wie nve dh owind inpsmnd a winner. >> don: washington still has not won a pac-10 road game after tonight m 0 for 5 and so good at home. hard to believe, how good they have been at home they couldn't win at least one game on the road. but it's been the that way in the conference all year. teams are protecting that home and can't seem to get ws on the road. >> barry: that's right. singler for dunigan, foul from

behind. called on natyazhko. >> don: good battle, two big guys here. natyazhko and bun began, and that is that position we talked about for dunigan. he is going to probably dunk it or get fouled. and natyazhko has to be able to push him out a bit. and dunigan, looked like he may have gotten the contact or forced the contact himself that time. but oregon down in the double bonus. he gets two shots. >> don: there's the first. and natyazhko is one of those guys that comes from the ukraine. went to the img academy in florida. and he is a crowd favorite. >> barry: standing o. >> don: yeah, i like that. oregon, 5 of 12 here

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>> barry: 70-52 ball game. unselfish arizona team that is looking for all of world. it's going to be a team to be reckoned with. >> don: execution is unbelievable. 28 field goals and 20 assists on the field

re is what is down the road. they have to play at arizona state on saturday. and thursday against stanford and next saturday, they get california. >> don: tough trip for oregon here in the desert this weekend. they run into teams that trying to fwet in first place. and cal and arizona state after their win tonight. not an easy road trip for oregon. >> barry: the other thing that is impressive, they did throw a clunker in against washington state. and that was probably the single worst game of the year. they had a chance to beat

washington. here is what they had. and they get four of the last six at home. they go to go to the bay area and that's a tough road trip. >> don: they have to be careful saturday against oregon state. they rose up with this one and had a good week of practice and really focused on the game tonight. but you can't let down saturday. if you're going to content for the regular season conference title every tight, as we have seen, i said it a bunch of times, anything can happen because we have seen it all year. >> barry: a good look, and go, and teondre williams, out of bounds. to arizona. >> don: that to me is a staggering stat. 25 straight years you get to the ncaa tournament. arizona with this win they will lock up or get to 13 wins on a season. you think they have to get you

worst case 17, probably 18 and finish high up in the conference. and we talked about, you get an automatic. >> barry: you look at who is playing well in the stretch and there is still aways to go. and this is a team that is improving virtually every week. they did close two in a row. and they have a chance at washington and then washington state. >> don: which teams have done for years and years on the washington trip. you go to washington and then sim a late three. and you give the coach credit. they were ready and desperate. and they rose up and beat and good arizona team. >> barry: they don't have to take a shot. and sim is going to hold on mitt

and it's 70-57. i don't think the final score is going tell you how dominant arizona was in the second half. >> don: no, they came out of the locker room flying and they wur unselfish and made extra passes for dunks and kickout threes and tremendous job by sean mill interhis staff. the arizona players came out flying in the second half. >> barry: let's take a look at pac-10 tending and see where things are. the night is just about finished. california a one-game lead. they went into the weekend with a one-game lead. and arizona state, 7-5. along with arizona. usc and ucla, will play sunday. and washington back to .500 and washington state and stanford, 5-7. join us saturday, 2:00 eastern and 11:00 pacific pac-10 women's hopes and after that, men's action, 34 4:00 eastern and 1:00 pacific.

that's a wrap for us here from here in tucson. for don maclean i'm barry tompkins. thanks. so long, you've been watching pac-10 hoops.

now on "the final score" ready? >> i'm time to get the party started. >> my goodness. >> what have you been doing? >> i don't care what he does. >> let's go! >> control is in the hands of the driver. >> welcome to victory lane. >> yes and welcome to "the final score." i'm greg wolf. strap in. we have 30 minutes of highlights ahead. including the u.s. open preview from pebble beach. the cavs current winning streak

is the longest in the league this season and what a way from a franchise record. they will either be the magic team and coming into our building and right now we are the best team in the nba. for the opening act, the cavs won 21 of the last 22 at home. lebron going up against dwight howard. howard said when asked if they were friends arrivals is a better way to describe it. lebron early on found jj there and there. this time ilgauskas passes and took the shot. the cavs run away early and up 14 after the 1st and the magic make a run. off the inbound, barnes is there harder and gets to within three by halftime. the 3rd quarter now, halves are running and up four, up top.

he throws it down and the cavs get to within two. the 4th quarter, the tight game. lebron hits it one more time and lebron going to the big target. with the alley oop. just over 5 to play. late in the 4th, it was all cavs. lebron with the fadeaway and the spin move right here. 32 points. 13 assists and eight. cavs win, 115-106. where in the

streaks broken, they are ready to start anew. first kobe bryant and now derek rhoades. if the reigning looky of the year will suit up. michael waltrip won, but he needed to help make the field this year. this year. #get hou he3 mo

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time from the other circle and a laser elliott. he finished with a hat trick. they will take a 4-3 lead. alex making a mistake and tries to keep the stick away from mike fisher and called for interference and that sets up this power play. up by four and the pass. he beat them and the cavs drop their 2nd. >> we have been telling them every night about bad habits. it hasn't come soon enough for me. the defense was horrible and the coal tending was horrible. you are not going to win with six goals and five are bad and they can't make a play. that was awful. >> an ugly display. >> trying to avoid a five-game losing streak. ray whitney will take the puck and just before time runs out, his name has been mentioned in several rumors.

he tied it at two and a great save. he was trying to lose pucks to put it in. overtime now. what a horrible turn over and the take sabers can't do anything right. the longest winning streak in almost two years hosting the bruins. >> crosses the wheel and that's a beautiful goal! maybe the prettiest the entire season. >> michael required puts them up three. moments later ryder with great time. he scores at 1:35. 2nd period, 6'8" taking them on.

>> oh, man! the big guy is just unloading. where am i? mommy! help! >> you don't probably want to mess with that guy. bruins win 5-4. the red wings looking to sweep the series and on the receiving end of a multihit, you got revenge in this one. wings on the power play. yo han with the 2nd game with knee surgery in front. the closing minutes as getting the back half. the blocker to make the stop and the rebound. he had a career high 50 saves and it goes to a shootout. for the win and the fake and he tuts it in. the sharks win it, 3-2. coming up on "the final score" presented by burger king, the playoffs started today. the spurs and nuggets would meet

in the 1st round. tipping off with a huge wcc matchup. kochsamums, wenspi

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welcome back to "the final score." gonzaga playing for 1st place in the wcc. off the block, gonzaga finds the

latest and converts with the foul. zags were down two at that point and later on, omar can't get down low. he is going to settle for the jumper. st. mary's up by three. under five seconds to go and he pulls up and beats the buzzer. 2nd half and he can relax. starts to pull away and harris coast to coast with a lead. a one-game lead over five teams including the huskies. randall with a tough move to the hoop. behind the back blown by his defender. that is pretty ball handling. pushed it in and hit 21 of his 33 points in the 1st half as he puts it in the lane and the foul. 2nd half, he would put it away and randall to patrick

christopher. washington 0-7 on the road this season. also in the pac 10, oregon and arizona. michael gun began will get it down low and he knows what to do with the finish. the ducks trail by eight at the break. they got off to a good start and more from williams. williams with the easy finish. where is williams? winds up and arizona is 70-57. >> the all-star team for the 1st time. he gets the call. >> i think he took something awkward. he got more than he bargained for. he will make his way back to the locker room. >> dwight howard nearly knocked his teammate out of sunday's festivities with the hard foul. after an mri they reported no

major damage and he plan on defending his skills challenge and playing in sunday's main event. he will be reevaluated. 2-0 against the spur this is season and in the 1st, he had 12 points the 1st half. the 2nd quarter, manu he had eight points and later on in the 2nd, the rebound and he will go all the way. the spurs up big in the 4th. next on "the final score," the next on "the final score," the

♪(whi tun n't be h♪ time to go to the overtime report brought to you by las vegas. 11-game road skit. boilers power play. he risks one and edmonton, a 2-0 lead and justin brown, the backhander. the kings on the board. late or off the stage, brown

will knock it loose. smith taps it in and it's 2-2 in the 3rd period. stars dropped 13-14, facing the flame. the stars trailing, 1-0. >> kiprusoff off the head and he scores! what a shot to tie the game at one! >> between the legs score. game tied at one. 3rd period. he shot in front and that will pete kiprusoff for the start. under a monday to go and the flame to go. sided to the net and he gets past and the goal on the ice. look at this. clearly jumping across the goal line before he covers it. it's ruled a no goal. not happy on this one. that's our show. i'm greg wolf. i will leave you with the big moment.

they tie their franchise record and lebron again doing it all. >> basketball time at the q. >> cavaliers at 42-11. the final 10 seconds and the cavaliers have won 13 games in a cavaliers have won 13 games in a row, tying a franchise

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♪ yout habe so nice ♪ inaction is becoming more and more apparent every day. we see what's going on around the world. we hear what moody's and other credit agencies are warning to us. and we know that excessive debt can harm the economy in terms of interest rates, terms of jobs coming to the standards of living. the most prudent course of action would be to commit to a credible plan as quickly as possible and to phase them in gradually as the economy is recovering enough so that it can accommodate that. ..

congresses should set a target for the ratio and not exceed a.

we believe that prudent target with a whole dead 60% of gdp and then they should experiences good fortune and it would be wise to lower the target of further. it is said the 60% is a matter of days met but the committee has to balance the risk of choosing a higher target against the political difficulty involved of boeing were. of higher debt gdp ratio means running higher deficits. their arithmetic is made easy if the gdp rose 5% per year then arithmetically a 60% target says 30% or if we had 80 percent deficit consistent with that would be 4% of that gdp. as the target ratio is arrays government baja draws

a higher proportion of domestic savings in interest rates would rise. to the other end there be a less available from private investment meaning lower productivity growth and therefore bill were wage growth and lower standards of living. to the extent foreign saving is used to finance deficits two 1/2 to devote a growing proportion of income to pay interest and dividends to foreigners and again americans living standards would suffer. rehired debt to gdp ratio it has a risk of a total meltdown and the market. problems would arise if all more or another emergency pushes above the target and the buyers of the bonds began to doubt our ability to put it back on a sustainable path.

people should look to ireland and greece if they think will happen next. they have been forced to slash spending and a rise in taxes quickly. social programs have been decimated the has amounted to over 5% of gdp a huge negative stimulus that exceeds the of the idea of the previous program broke those build up by the you been suspected a lender will impose harsh conditions on the fiscal policy. and who would bail them out? at the imf? what would the american people think of having our policies dictated by a lender? am i be better to choose a target considerably lower than the 60%. however, as you suggested

come when you look up the policies necessary to get to that level, they are extremely difficult politically probably the most important contribution was to outline a rich menu of policy options to get us from here to there. regrouped the options into four packages. at one extreme the committee and ask what is necessary to stabilize the dead gdp ratio of 60% of the total tax burden been maintained at 80 percent of gdp of spending. that packages call below spending option at the other extreme is said what tax increases would be necessary piece for social security or medicare or medicaid benefits are as what is determined by current law? eventually the slowdown of health costs because they cannot be allowed to consume

of gdp would that could be put off for a long time. it was to the degree to which benefits were maintained for the elderly population and in the past they have been relatively generous to the elderly with infrastructure and research had to be constrained while the other non elderly spending could be treated more generously. the four packages are put together for illustrative purposes only it could be put together in the infinite variety of combinations. and has not avoided any tax burden but the raid the social security benefits held out the level with the current payroll tax structure that is accelerated by five years the speed at which the full

retirement age reaches 67 leaching longevity after that. and involves reducing the indexing of benefits for 70% of earners and also switching to in the experimental price index which has been developed by the bls that most people expect to grow more slowly. incensing such a package it is important to differentiate the reduction of purchasing power as compared to today's level from eight greater growth. although it would buy the maintain the purchasing power for the most affluent the redos replacement rates considerably too lower levels promised. the rate of growth of the low spending option has to be held by that only by the aging population. that is to say all other

causes have to be wiped out, we divide health options into two categories. those that can be readily scored by the cbo and those that are so uncertain that it does not provide estimates. there probably involve using every option mentioned in this chapter to some degree to a chief the health target for the low spending. to the degree that options that would work, horrible could be less painfully. the other option to the medicare and admitted medicaid on a fixed budget used in universal coverage systems in u.k. and canada and every hospital must work on a budget and physicians

are limited to their growth and come. the rationing lifted that go with a fixed budget is anything but transparent. a different approach to a fixed budget is to use the voucher system to provide medicare. it would be used by the elderly and the very -- with an come. and that would be by shifting to a block grant. willow spending option applies to severely constraining all other spending as well. allow the pentagon to maintain the current personnel policies but very little investment of new weapons systems parker it would allow foreign intervention nothing as large from the iraq war afghanistan would be possible. all other non-defense spending would have to be lowered considerably below

the share of gdp. on a package to maintain current law benefits, that is the high spending adoption in coming to different financing mechanisms are proposed. in one disproportionately bracewell tax rates in the current system until you hit 50% top rate that happens by 2020. we don't want to go above that because of the efficiencies and inequities that would cause broke so we introduce a value added tax at that point* less than one percentage point* o ultimately reaching seven poin 7% by 2014. the other approach which is more preferred globally income taxes radically reformed, almost all tax expenditures are eliminated. the provided health exclusion would be capped and no need to rates. 10 percent and 25.

the top starts at $44,950. they would rise temporarily but the elimination of tax expenditures and especially those in they did to health generates so much revenue in the long run the rates could be lowered over time. reasor eric-- besides large increases in revenue that would require a double ring of the tax considerable increases from the social security payroll tax them with a cap would be gradually raised for 90% of earnings the payroll tax rate going from 12.4% alternately at 14 .7% and then have to be a second two-year surtax that did not own any benefits and ultimately rise of 5.5%.

the high spending option would raise the overall tax burden by 50% compared to that of 20 days 2008 and continue to rise after that record you have a reasonable estimate of state and local taxes which is now considerably below would go significantly above the average by mid century personnel speaking for myself and not the committee , i think when you see extraordinary spending cuts required to keep the tax burden constant and the extraordinary tax increases that would be required to keep all of our promises to the elderly and others come i can help but agree with mr. chairman, a mixture of those two things would be required. but i am certainly not

speaking for the committee on that point* probably did have these two middle options which, as i said, differ in their degree of generosity to the elderly. i can discuss those later if you like. the testimony concludes by looking at a lot of process changes of our committee considered we don't think that can cure the problem all by themselves but might be helpful in helping of the congress to do with this extraordinarily difficult task. thank you. >> thank you mr. penner for that excellent testimony and for the outstanding work to lay out specific options. i tell you, to go to the exercise what i have gone

through with my staff, it would be so sobering to them that i think it will help advance the need to act soon and begin the process. reno in the midst of an economic downturn come in terms of good economic policy, you don't cut spending or raise taxes. those both have a tendency to further jeopardize recovery. but very soon, as recovery takes hold, we have to pivot and focus like a laser on the death wrapper all of you have made that abundantly clear. senator sessions has joined us. he was in another committee. i am delighted he is here. i want to recognize a member in a statement he would like

to make then we will open it up to questions. >> will be brief. thank you for the series of hearings you have been hearing day showing mr. chairman, we're hearing for some of the best people in the world and america perhaps the biggest threat to the country at this time. i'll look forward to working with you and believe we will have to take some steps on the question to raise taxes and the economic downturn, i think they're real question is how much can we increase spending? $800 billion passed over my objection, every penny of that will add to our dead and i truly believe we did

not get to the kind of job creation economic stimulus that was projected for it. and many people predicted that. mr. becker, nobel prizewinner roche all-new should have one to another stimulus would be opposed and reality indicates that is so. i would say to you, while sitting there, i do not speak for other members of my party. this is a very big and personal issue, i am not for a permanent increase and the size of the united states government preferably if we have a history and heritage of limited to overmanned. and we have accelerated the

debt situation to a number of bad decisions, in my view. now that answer is we just have to have a tax increase. and this will raise up some what the percentage of gdp the government extracts every year. i don't like that. you may say it you have to raise taxes a little bit but we will cut a little bit. i am not too sure about that. my people think government spends too much money and needs to take care shave and and not grow. i guess i am being honest, we have a big problem here mr. chairman. this is not an easy thing for me to say i will vote for a tax increase.

it is part of what i was sent here to do, i think a lot of other people feel the same. what we will do, i don't know. but we have to deal with the reality you are laying out for us and i will do my best to think about this. thank you for the support. and on the bipartisan bill has contained spending, and we have 17 democrats voted for that but close to the 60 pro majority and maybe we some how could get that across and finally, to contain spending is always a next year. we just have one more year.

but that is concerning to me we have to make sure one time that is not spent is not critically important. thank you. >> let me say to my friend, mr. sessions. we have a circumstance in which those who are on the more liberal side of the spectrum don't want to change the trajectory of social security or medicare by one nickel and we have those of the more conservative side don't want to raise taxes by a nickel. and rear and a circumstance, i believe, that will require both. i personally believe to due march of the spending side than the revenue side because if you've looked at the long term trajectory the

reality is moral have to be on the spending side band of other it. but if we set the goal then just the spending side of the equation as mr. penner said the cuts will have to be so deep and draconian that's it would not be sustainable. on the other hand,, i know there are passionate feelings about not raising revenue. think the first place we look at the revenue side is a more efficient revenue system because my calculation and i know this system will not agree with this but i believe we're on the collecting 76 percent of what is owed under the current system.

if we actually collected the money we were supposed to collect under the current system we would not need additional revenue we would have additional revenue. and in large measure we would eliminate the gap. , the current gap was still have serious problems on the spending side of the equation because of the baby-boom generation. the undeniable fact we will double the number of people eligible for social security. i have people better on a more liberal side of the equation attacked me say i am for cutting medicare and social security and that is my whole goal. i just say to them, if they are seriously concerned about medicare and social security beneficiaries, and then they better get serious about how we deal with the

utterly unsustainable course we are on. the fact is both our cash negative. according to the trustee will go insolvent in 80 years. sells a security will be insolvent not far behind. both they're now putting pressure on the general fund because we go out of the general fund, the trust fund of medicare and social security will money we borrowed from them that we barred in the hundreds of billions of dollars. that has in the immediate budget effect that those who just focus of the publicly held dead because there's a lot of reference to various that stabilization of will send us 60% done debt to ggp

is on the publicly held debt and debt that we hold a public in does not count the money we all the trust fund. advocating for what we have to do for me budget perspective because the reality is their gross dead of the united states includes will be owed to the trust fund and so security and medicare. having head dead of 90% of gdp of united states. we have not been that high since rolled were two. a share of the publicly held that will be over 60 percent of gdp most part advocating

as the debt stabilization goal of gdp which i think is a worthy goal. that is publicly held that pritzker is very important for members of this committee to know from eight budgetary standpoint, the gross debt has to be very much on our minds because we have to come up with the money to pay back those trust funds that can only come out of current income. let me go to the witnesses. let me ask you this, you have done this scenarios and i applaud you for going through and actually coming up with alternative scenarios. it is sobering, it is it not, mr. penner ?

you are well known as a conservative, a financially. you are somebody that has been very clear with respect to the long term but trajectory. when you go through the effort to come up with the plan to stabilize the debt at 60% gdp, a lot of very unhappy to reese's? >> yes, sir, any reasonable path involve significant changes the but you might call this sacred cow of social security and medicare and i think an increase and the tax burden for baidu thing the best way to go about it is implied which is radical tax reform because the way economists see it the inefficiency of the tax system depends on the marginal tax rates and if we

are at below today's level. >> and we're talking about that we talk about things like the interest deduction on mortgages and the fact that today that those that are taxed for benefits from our employers are not taxed. that is 2.5 trillion dollars by the way of tax benefits for health care for the 2.5 trillion dollars. that is real money. and grows geometrically over time. let me ask you, mr. penner i will go to the other witnesses as well, we have

to deal with security and medicare. that is the 800 lb kurland and cannot be allowed to continue to grow without swamping the system. those who save day care about medicare beneficiaries and social security beneficiaries, and those who say they care about the tax burden, i believe all of us it do, isn't it true, doctor, we're headed on a course that threatens all of those interest? >> yes. it is. but i think we should not exaggerates the pain involved too much because because, even in the most severe cuts to social security, most of the population ended up with higher real benefits than

they get to day. that is not because of the progressive indexing system but the middle ground scenario, the real value of benefits does continue to go up over time. >> so security is the easiest. >> that is true bracket with regard to medicare that is most-- both more difficult politically and conceptually because we don't know how the options would work. politically for obvious reasons. but again but you do when you can to get rid of the inefficiencies, the major driver is technological change which makes health care more expensive every year. so what we are talking about is improving the quality of health care over time.

we should not lose sight of that. ribisi to finance the quality of the health care rehash of today. by not of what is difficult to mike let me go straight to the 800-pound gorilla. what would you recommend to this committee on the congress the lead due to deal with medicare that would threaten insolvency? >> that is the hardest question but i think there are some partial answers. we don't know how effective some of the things that have been suggested but they

ought to be try. certainly put taye in place a strong medicare commission that picks the best ways of changing the reimbursement rates so that they favor more e efficient health service delivery and it cannot be overridden by the congress which has been happening time after time, as you well know, and other ways of reducing the rate of growth of medicare spending. we're lucky in this sense we have a very inefficient health system. that may sound counterproductive, but compared to some other

countries we have opportunities to make this system more efficient in the near term. and in the end we have to worry about rationing. but i don't think we will get there for a couple of decades probably and we have the opportunity to be more efficient. >> i asked all the witnesses this question. senator craig and i wrote the cbs's said the would be the most effective thing we could do to contain exploding cost of health care? that answer was clear and compelling. number one coming have to begin to tax cadillac plans and reduce the tax exemption. number two, you have to reform the delivery system instead of paying for procedures you have to begin to pay for quality. those of the two most

important things you can do. do you agree? >> i do. an enormous opportunity was lost by the obama administration too not embrace senator mccain's notion that taxes, the tax exemption on the employer based health insurance should be phased out. that is a better approach than taxing that cadillac plans. >> that is what cbo did it recommend but i paid to work today little bit but they really did say phase out. >> to get to the same objective. >> yes. you could do either way but it is really important that we not have the government they bring excessively generous through the tax

system favoring extensively generous health plans that encourage people to use too much health care or the providers to give it. and the other piece is all of the other things that go with making that health care delivery system more efficient. not all of which we know yet we need to experiment with at and figure out how to do better because it can be done better. >> we know it can because we have systems that are relatively low cost , the cleveland clinic, the mayo clinic operate at a much lower cost with higher quality. >> right. we know something of how they do with but the question is spreading to other systems. >> with respect to

medicare, maya, going after the 800-pound gorilla water the leading alternatives for us to consider with the exploding cost? >> i tend to rate yearly bowed to the report under the cbo directors but under that report to, that is important and focuses on the right thing. clearly that tax preference is one of the things driving up the cost putting into the insurance system and demanding more insurance which is not a radical policy but it is pushing up cost it is unfortunate we could not go ahead on. imf that camp that you pull that back as much as possible. basically i think paying for outcomes rather their procedures, comparative effectiveness studies, looking at what

works is important right to understanding the second step, not that you steady and put it on the shelf but then you have to limit what health care could be compensated for medicare or medicaid. rationing does not have to happen immediately but it cannot be a bad word. it happens. everything cannot be paid for in the unlimited way and you have to have a discussion of the output should be covered and by whom. health care is one of the most explosive discussions out there. although we do not need to go to the extremes because there are some of the inefficiencies we need to talk about trade offs in the health care just like any other. >> we had an excellent hearing tuesday.

and dr. rhine hurt one of the things that we discussed about debt on the same page, 12 reem read to the dead and a gdp ratio? the european union is 60% of debt to gdp ratio and the german leaders, somebody noted local government debt isn't that right? dr.? i did not know that. secondly, i assume the 60% would include the internal debt and the public debt to. are, i don't know if they have such a situation how is it true men by the unique

account team procedures to use with cbo? i guess i assaying when we discuss this with the american people, what is the best never to start using. i use public debt simply because nobody disputed that. but what i have to learn to my belief that the president understated the cost of the plan because cbo didn't ask your the internal that. but since we now know because they're on eight insolvency directories that since very real, that 20 years ago when the order to

sell clothes, doubt we need to reevaluate and discuss the issue by utilizing the gross -- gross debt rather than public debt? >> i think you are stuck using both numbers because they have different significance and both are important. if you talk about public debt, that is what we owed to the public, roughly other countries and how of it is a load to other countries because they own our death. >> do you mean individuals or nations states? >> mostly nation states. >> i am sorry to interrupt. >> it is governments and central banks and other

countries. china are the largest but not the only ones. it is important to keep that in mind because that makes us very vulnerable to the policies in that country and worrying about public debt. whatever reason for worrying about the total debt because we are now at the point* at which we will have to start really being said that. that means that we will be buying back the bonds in order to make sure the security and medicare payments are made. that told that is important

and you cannot oversimplify by saying there is one number but there are two concepts and to numbers. >> it seems to me that what we are doing is since we're not reducing or cutting expenses we're converting public debt because most of the trust fund is not an end surplus or soon will be. is that the danger of the internal debt? >> that is exactly right. i want to point* out that when in this report, when we do our baseline, that implies that the dead in the trust fund will gradually become sold so it becomes

debt held by the public and it is not that many years further the distinctions between their gross and net to disappear because of so security and medicare. >> but mr. chairman, it seems the studio -- they are scoring of the debt. the internal debt. free focused on public debt, we do have some sort of a projection but when we increase as a health care bhutto, the internal debt, i don't think we can any longer suggests that is not a cost of an increase in the

country. following up on that, social security, i believe stephen more made the point*, i don't know it was fully thought through and economically, but if you have a 1% greater growth three and our projections now have for the american -- american economy , social security would not go into default. but we know growth makes a big difference particularly and social security. so economic growth in the economy. when you raise taxes, it diminishes growth and debt

diminishes growth. dr. reinhardt testify in the level of debt to a o take us to a reduction of economic growth which is 1% of gdp. if that is accurate i think all panelists agree. three of them did not acknowledge jeopardous seems to re-read our, between. i think we have to contain spending now and not let the money get out the door like the stimulus package when you get so little for it. make sure that every dollar gains something in terms of growth and increases debt to. but what is your thinking about the comments about

growth and the size of that? >> we're all. for pro i think the more the economy grows, the easier it will be to solve this problem. one of the illustrations is what happens then the several decades of world 4243 had a large debt to. the economy was growing rapidly so over that period, the debt to gdp ratio came down primarily because the economy was so bad, not because the debt to came down right after the war but to after that it was primarily the growth, up one thing about security, yes, it is good for bringing revenues into

the social security trust fund, but the benefits are indexed to wages and growth pushes up wages. so unless we change the way of religious do not help much. >> you think the others would be more fairly than wages? >> but if we bring down the rate of growth of social security benefits, not those that are retired now, then i think we could index the benefit, and the initial benefit to two prices for people above the middle worthies 60th

percentile, that would be one way to do that two phase-in horror less generous where people at the top than the bottom and that would help a lot. >> i would say i just read the "fortune" magazine that have the four top investing mr. gross at pimlico and gmac ago and others. three out of four say the new normal is low growth and they attributed to low growth for the next decade due to debt. mr. siegel said productivity , technological advancements could be the breakthrough, but that was pretty grim. these are people are telling people how to invest their money and labor not optimistic about the future. let me say about the point*

that you made the, here is a rough recollection with some intensity last year. my ref recollection was if we have 1% more growth than the actuaries estimate because they estimate very low growth for the next 50 years in the united states, only 2 percent or something like that. you just have 1% more, my recollection is that takes care of 75% of the problem but budgetary it does not at all but very little because we still have the circumstance where we borrowed from the general fund from the social security trust fund. know that will have to be paid back.

it can only be paid back at of courage reseats. this is a concept they don't have their minds around. this will have a significant effect on the rest of the budget because we have been in the circumstance where the general fund can borrow from the social security trust fund, $150 billion per year. now that is sending and that source of money is ending because social security right now is cash negative and will be at 2016 so now where will that money come from? when the situation is reversed and the general fund has to start paying off these funds that -- bonds that represent the borrowing that has occurred? we have to help our colleagues understand we

were headed for a different budget circumstance. >> figures chairman for holding this hearing and for the witnesses to cave very valuable testimony i want to extend my eight appreciation to you ms. rivlin for being here with my many years in the budget environment, but my question several like to focus on and mr. penner . thank you for being here. thank you for a much for presenting to st. of fiscal report. it is the first time i have seen a budget document address anything than in a cursory way, the value that can be achieved from reform in the health care delivery system.

here put it in the context of page of 8586 of the medicare system. but if we are in fact, a gauge of achieving those very large opportunity is to make the assist them more efficient long term and more engaged just because it is there a system one reforms if the hospital reduces infections and no longer paying 7,000 per house will required, it is not just the medicare system but it

entirely everyone that saves. if we are a good bet that i take the numbers between $700 billion per year in excess costs and waste and $1 trillion per year which is what the treasury secretary o'neill member is, if we can kid and a significant chunk, it will take time and will be the ongoing learning process, there is a similar description recently, it isn't it true that many of the benefits of that fall outside medicare and medicaid and will help with the overall burden of health care cost the economy has to bear help being is with the

assistance to medicare and medicaid. >> that is absolutely right. you can characterize the medicare options into two categories. assertive options you are talking about infections in hospitals or redos the readmission rate of improbably get them options like increasing the eligibility age for medicare , that is the means to shift costs out of the garmin budget and on to the private sector. >> that is one of the real values on focus of delivery form but on to the private sector but still they reduce and resist. some of those circumstances

at that insurance mechanism continues to gain the system it is important to me that you had it but is discouraging it is only two pages and five pages out of the whole valley dictation volume but this is the high water mark to be in the budget discussion. i know senator conrad and senator craig are keen on getting this commission going and i have to say my single greatest reservation as i worry people who are fiscal economic brilliant people who do not have the specialized sense of how the system must take place. and not understand the

executive management function that has multiple building blocks to achieve and it can be overlooked of the way cbo could not score it effectively because of the nature of the process for public going forward people say we could count those feelings ran away. but it is hard to do others of there be a by s. but i'm close describe them as the bloody surgeons without tools. maybe a song or a knife or a more and modern structures toolkit the pharmaceuticals and things like that. we can do in a modern way but it seems to be a huge fireball between those who

look at the problem is. they are completely different and how do you break down and penetrate to get more expert discussion in the of this goal budget context? >> day think while i a agree the system is terribly inefficient and we could improve the efficiency and save enormous amounts of money, i would not want to say it is easy. the very fact we don't understand the cost savings that go with a lot of these proposals suggests how hard it is. we have to do our best to learn more maybe that could be done through a demonstration come experiments and so forth. >> let me have heard time and in my one minute remaining. >> guy a tree but.

it is very scary about systemic reform and budget problems at the same time. one as my colleague who i believe that you know, . and he and others like dr. fisher who worked on the dartmouth proposal zero cell like those who care about the delivery system reform but the economic as well. >> i went to populate with more those people to understand that and make sure that is the way we perceive first. >> as the chairman said yesterday it is important point* akamai you can go after medicare for the fiscal lives any time you like for you can overnight

truck people and overnight use the bloody civil four toolbox. in that prices, what is different about the delivery system reform, the building blocks have to be applied to use mr. penner testimony, the looting process, again using his words, every minute or day that goes by we're not buried deliberately engaged is time lost against whatever that moment of reckoning might be. mrs. said at a time. be a week too not want to wait but the as proactive than possible that includes the obama administration where shai who does not wait teeing around but i

apologize i have gone over my time. >> those who might be listening, one of the greatest frustrations i have had in being a purchase print and in some ways, a witness to see health care debate culminate paid attention to things of those who were most knowledgeable at health care. cbo told us phasing out an employer based health care is one of the most important things that needs to be done. also is the reform of the delivery system. do you see any of the national media spend 30 seconds on that issue?

but to stop paying for procedure and quality outcome. did you see one storey? i didn't. and instead they changed everything that is a sideshow, a side issue and most of which does not matter a hoot, i will tell you, i don't know what is happening as a culture, but when we have the national news media obsessing about michael jackson and obsessing on its side issues and giving no basis of information for people to make judgments that two things that really matter to our economic future, we have a big problem. i will plead to the media, i understand it is a ratings gain but you were using