money. but it is leveraged fairly effectively. these consumer survivors try to reach patients in hospitals, patients who've been discharged and try to encourage them often not to take medication, as i said, do some pretty heavy lobbying and i found that politicians are especially uninformed about the kinds of interventions that are needed for the severely mentally ill and t -- and terrified, of course, of seeming as if to violate civil rights, you know, by -- by -- by recalling the -- the era of the asylum where there were some abuses certainly. c-span: on the back of your book you have some endorsements. one of them is a -- someone who would not be considered a conservative or a republican, wendy kaminer. >> guest: right. c-span: she writes: 'feminists and other liberals who have long protested the medical profession's right-wing biases should heed satel's well-argued critique of the pc left-wing

medicine.' how did you get her to write that? >> guest: i've actually been a fan of wendy kaminer's for -- ever since she wrote "i'm dysfunctional, you're dysfunctional. and, actually, she's a libertarian. i -- i think she'd call her th -- herself that as opposed to a liberal, and she's basically someone who respects data when data exists. and so i asked her. c-span: what's your goal in life? where do you go after -- i mean, when's -- when is your aei fellowship over? >> guest: it's over in the s -- the fall of 2002. c-span: so what then? what do you want to do? >> guest: well, i'd like to do i think what i'm doing now, but at higher levels of visibility and -- and influence. i -- i have thought about returning, at the same, though, i -- i have thought about working with schizophrenic patients again and devoting more of my time to clinical work. i'm -- i -- maybe you've once

interviewed someone named fuller torrey. he's a psychiatrist. actually, he's local. and a schizophrenia researcher, has a lot of influence on policies, written some wonderful books and he has started a group called the treatment advocacy center. it's located in arlington, and its efforts are directed towards reforming these commitment laws. but -- but with that background, i -- i have thought of working with that group to perhaps developing a -- a model kind of -- of asylum. i realize that's a word now that -- that has so much baggage, but a very benign one for the most severely mentally ill that could be a model and it would be residential and it would be -- it would have elements that actually borrow from some of the dar -- the days of dorothea dix of the moral treatment of the mentally ill where it was quite dignified actually.

the -- the patients had working farms. they worked with animals. they worked -- they were self-sustaining. and that kind of an environment plus the medications we have today, which are far more sophisticated, i think could make for a very humane setting for that small minority of severely mentally ill people who just can't live independently. c-span: here's what the cover of the book looks like: "pc, m.d.: how political correctness is corrupting medicine," by sally satel, md. thank you very much for joining us. >> guest: thank you. ..

>> good afternoon nine a.m. the head of the rasa school of business credit is a

pleasure to welcome you this afternoon we wrote a booktv who is taping the conversation this afternoon for the format will be we will have a little conversation first between the two of us on the stage that newell open to q&a from the audience bridges say pleasure to welcome micheline maynard ase senior business correspondent focusing on the airline industry we also have the good fortune to have harassed the adjoint lecture. last buck -- duralast book "the end of detroit" turned out to be sadly accurate and as a forecast of things to come down sheet follows up with a terribly interesting book, "the selling of the american economy" how do get from the end of the economy?

>> is an interesting story broke a one to say thank you first of all, it is my first experience in this beautiful new building and i hope everybody is enjoying fat. the end -- "the end of detroit" is a book that came out in 2003 looked at the end of the american car buyer. what i saw in the book was the selling trends of the american market was changing significantly. one of the reasons foreign companies that came to the united states opened plants in mississippi and alabama and using those plans to neutralize the fear of buying a foreign car. would you have unharmed of buying a car 75% of american parts to pay taxes and kids

went to school and lives in the subdivision, as american as any other how do you say that is not an american car? i was deeply interested in these people. i wanted to about them, the committees and the states that tried so hard to get the plants. i found it was not just the auto industry is something going on across the american economy. >> host: a much broader phenomenon. thinking of the sharp contrast how business do business in the united states we have governors and other public officials seemingly do everything they can to attract companies to, set up shop but on the other hand, we have people who might subscribe to the title a negative reading, the selling of the american economy.

it is the bad idea in the short run the long term it is a loss of control and a bad thing for the u.s. economy. do have a sense of the same viewpoints of four that comes from? >> absolutely. touches a nerve because our country's -- companies before america. we don't have a long history we have brand names come and mcdonald's, coca-cola, sta rbucks. and general motors, ford, and also chrysler. it touches a nerve that says we lost something when foreign investment comes to deny the states. if you look back through history looking through the 1600's with the jamestown colony, the settlement of new england, railroads. state of michigan, the mines

in northern michigan poor funded by a foreign money. but there is an uncomfortable relationship where one germany company took the brunt comment world war ii japanese companies and more recently other companies took the brunt with recessions in the '80s and now more recently 87 the acquisition the acquisition of anheuser-busch is an american brand name you can find. >> guest: budweiser. it is a belgian company. one of the things they said we will consolidate and seller station there will be job losses. we don't want you to think all we'll be fine. we have to cut jobs. there has been some in just days resentment towards inbev but they would add that against anheuser as

well. >> host: but the relative treatment of american workers and american companies and foreign companies and you look at the people of the factory floor and senior executives. my sense is that you were saying this treatment within the foreign companies of america ears -- americas is better than other companies? >> it is interesting to look at the statistics. looking at the big picture there are 5.5 million jobs in the united states from foreign direct investment. 150 million jobs it does not sound like a lot of the remember when we talked about the bailout, there was a steady from the center of automotive research says says the industry was two or 3 million jobs. foreign direct investment jobs are bigger than the auto industry and in

manufacturing it is 10%. the average worker in manufacturing in a foreign company earns $60,000 per year and is 20% more than the average worker at all manufacturing companies in the united states. they tend not to be unionized. american manufacturing is more unionized than foreign manufacturing and still a tiny percentage compared to what it used to me. >> it is interesting to look at a couple of the industry especially general motors and ford and chrysler were training grounds when the foreign automakers came in and hired managers. toyota was populated with gm managers from the beginning. when you look at tata motors, up from the beginning they left in the management and place.

when coming if the american and operation they hired away from the american contractors. it is an opportunity rather than anything to be concerned about. >> host: there is a chapter that has a very interesting title, though for between the states. is says when a foreign company comes to the united states and things of opening a plant, they will announce intentions and a number of bidders will show up for that. there was one particular story you told about going to haley barbour in mississippi and missing out on the first round when toyota decided to go to san antonio but in the second round, when you call up the tax incentives and preparation fees it basically came out at $147,000 per job created. do you have a sense that

foreign companies really are, because of the competition between the states are able to extract most of the benefits created or is there an equal division between what the company's are getting or the states are accruing even after they compete with one another? >> first of all, look at what the foreign companies are after when they come to the united states. many times there after the american market we're still a very wealthy country despite our recession, a highly educated and consumer country. foreign countries want to the market. that is the first reason. in many instances, you have a highly unionized atmosphere and high operating cost. just like a clean sheet of paper they can start over. mississippi was devastated

after katrina. people focus on the louisiana but don't remember this other parts of mississippi was ripped apart. three days later haley barbour was on the phone to asia assuring them mississippi would clean up the mess and they would be open for business. darned if they did not do that now use that as a selling point* to other companies that want to invest in mississippi providing they would sit of the money they have spent has been worth it for what it has done for the image of mississippi. >> we see a number of cases for the cost per jobs, 147,000 another at 300,000 per job created. has there been enough of a passage of time to look back and say that was a good

investment? >> guest: there are a couple of good examples. and impact is an ohio win back in the '70s the governor went and met with mr. honda. is essentially when honda was ready to build in the united states they went to ohio and said we've like to play a motorcycle plant and the state gave $5 million in investment predestines then they built two car plants and a technical center and employs 25,000 people as the biggest manufacturing employer in the state of ohio. kentucky would say it is a fantastic idea, a georgetown kentucky is a small town outside of lexington. i was there when toyota broke the ground. there was one mcdonald's and one traffic light.

i don't know if you know, the scene where it is a wonderful life they show him the life. >> guest: have had but the town is lit up and there is traffic and lights come without is with georgia and kentucky looks like no. people complain about the traffic but a lot of people are glad that jobs are there. where it has not worked as well would be san antonio because such rio day planned down there had trouble getting to full capacity. it is one of the plans that had to be idled during the recession and did not build trucks for a while. they have the workers retraining, maintenance, is essentially free talk the workers how to build trucks during that down point*. now the plant is back open getting back at full capacity. thinks the jury is still out

if it is a success but they are trying to make it that way. >> host: you have interviewed governor granholm for this book i unimagined with the number of locations with your work at the times. despite her considerable efforts, michigan has been somewhat less successful at attracting foreign companies to the state. is there any advice you can offer or strategies we would like to see enacted. >> gettelfinger my editors at "the new york times" would be very happy with me giving advice to governor grand home. but i can give a comparison. one of the issues she faces, the essential state of michigan as a car and union state. her backers are democrats, probably union members she does support

from the uaw. when the bail-out happened she fought for them and literally that a parade in favor of general motors on the floor of the detroit auto show. then you have haley barbour offering any help and it trent lott saying we will be warriors 42 the. -- toyota up. that would be the first problem in michigan. but she has tried not to focus just on the car business but other industries that could invest in the state of michigan. she has been to israel and other countries in asia and has investments from other companies, saw some motors is the maker of the $2,500 car in india and some day

and the united states. there is 500 engineers doing work for boeing, and chrysler. you can have successes i don't think she will ever get the big four and at assembly plant that has gone to the southern states. >> host: we are academics we don't mind offering advice to anybody. [laughter] we are very free with our buy so i apologize. >> people when jim cramer asked me to pick stocks. i won't do that either. [laughter] >> host: what do see for the future economy of the state of michigan? day rendition in any particular industry? >> it is a big dilemma i have total sympathy for people who live here because you have to think for the last 100 years, literally, people in michigan and could get a well-paid job without a

high-school education. there was no value placed necessarily on higher education because you could work in a car plant in the summer you just needed a dad or brother who knew the four men to get you hired. the whole economy was built up by jobs by the pound by what made america great until the '80s. but still imagined peoples who be there are still folks with by teeing the battle in dearborn and thus it is down a strike. but that mentality of we will all come back and be as great as ever, that is probably not going to happen barring some huge recovery, we will never get back to the levels of car sales that we did and it requires a rethinking. michigan has amazing natural

resources in the beautiful coast line, innovation. one of the reasons all of the foreign auto companies put technical centers in the detroit area because that is where engineers are. for the state's future it would be a good idea to leverage the talent and natural resources. look at how well it is doing with the film industry. there are clearly things hear that appeal to investors outside the united states whether from hollywood or overseas. the less we can try to pretend the old days will come back and more we can figure out the future would be better for the state. >> host: moving to the national scene you talk about obama's very hopefully in terms of not waving a protectionist flag but on the other hand, being open to foreign companies doing business in the united states. also express the concern for

the warning unless more work is done 31 not see the continued flow of jobs being created in the united states. are there any particular programs or activities that would really make the united states in welcoming environment that should be for the foreign companies? >> guest: when you have a recession the tendency is to pull and to protect yourself. the stimulus package put through almost one year ago had a very strict by american proficient it was weekend but it has offended canada which is the biggest trade partner. the reaction of let's have by american and require this or that, people look at that and see a lack of sophistication and the idea they will not be will come in.

if we can hold down the political rhetoric on both sides, it would probably help the american landscape. one thing i found interesting obama had a jobs summit in allentown pennsylvania and he was photographed of the president shaking hands with workers' outside and they happen to be working at said nestle's planned for it is a subtle sign from the president i will go shake hands with american workers their employer matters less than if they are americans and working. >> host: it has been six or seven years since your book. anybody will get a sense of the deep research that you do. you must live with this five 4/6 years as you work on your book and work for the times.

but if we fast forward to the year 2016, what might you be talking to us within? what topic might engage you? >> i am very interested in what will happen next in the american economy in places like michigan and as we remake ourselves. it is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. ottilie comes about in a couple of times and in history. after the great depression and we rebuilt and the industrial complex by a military complex he essentially. after world war ii we looked inward and rebuild america. this time i don't think we can the rebuilding their cells by looking inward were tousing conflict. what interests me is the states and the people who

are rethinking what the country will look like and the business world will look like. i am very encouraged when i talk to business school students about how much on to print you're there is out there people are waiting to be rescued by a big company. they want their piece of it when. that is what interests me. >> host: following up, if you were advising me as a business school dean what shaded we beat teaching teaching -- what should we be teaching what should be trying to develop with these great young people? >> guest: do i get a lecture? [laughter] one of the greatest things of teaching at michigan is

how great they are but also their knowledge. this curriculum are hard and so you spend as much time studying international business are marketing but then you don't get the broader education. it is almost like the old liberal arts education that has fallen by the wayside. i guess i would give you encouragement, i would say make them go to the auditorium to hear radio head or go to the festival and let people think in a more creative way than the route that we have now in the business school curriculum. that is the only thing. >> host: thank you very much. now we will open to the audience. we have microphones in

either i will if anybody like to ask a question. >> the chrysler's situation overlaps both books. do have day high hope that chrysler fee got a merger will work? what about the employment of southeast michigan? >> guest: thank you for mentioning that. win "the end of detroit" can now it was time a chrysler but now it has been given to fiat with a lot of help from our federal government chrysler is in the opportunity to remake itself because it will not be the chrysler that it was. if you look at the numbers come of my colleague is here, you will see it is

smaller than on debt record you put the two career and autumn makers together, they are bigger than chrysler. you have to have a goal and a mission. i think i can survive but has to be a combination of the strength of chrysler and jeep which is a stronger brand name but the innovation of the law. i am not sure that can coexist at the moment so it could be multi-year process but in five years we will though whether this has worked or not. >> thank you so much for coming. i am in this school of business and in china for the auto industry, actually

there is a regulation that foreign companies cannot enter our market and must have a partner inside the country. is that a possible solution? to solve the problems you just mentioned? >> guest: that is a very interesting question part of the chinese market is now larger than the american car market. there were more cars sold there than here. the aboriginal ventures in the united states word joint ventures and gm and toyota were in california, another that disintegrated a couple years ago, but as a joint venture it is not there but then chrysler fell apart also ford and nissan.

i think in the united states you do that to get on your feet but then you want to be in your own going forward. is an interesting time to look at these ventures because i think the detroit company sought to burn secrets from the foreign companies. but they sought it was a different organization and not 83 style. if you look as something like the three of the matrix and the pontiac by that is now going away, it is very hard to market to cars under separate brand names. i think the detroit companies will have to get stronger so they can do with competition on their own shores. >> you mention international companies come here because of a blank sheet of paper and michigan may not be able

to provide that blank sheet of paper because of who is here. if that is who is voting and dictating policy, what if michigan and can do what we know should be done? then go to vote out of office as outsourcing to get day education what about having 100 years of being on top to get down to a competitive spots with the population? >> >> guest: it will get down to a competitive side because there has been so much shrinkage. i think it has to shrink and plod along just to get used to being smaller.

a good friend of mine wrote to a book called parker justice and he has amazing numbers of what this city of detroit wants was. it used to have 2 million people and 200,000 employed in the auto industry. now it is under 800,000 now only at under 20,000 employed. i saw us some numbers the university of michigan is now the second largest employer behind ford motor company broker the realization has to happen first before the rebuilding can begin. it would take a hard look at the state of what it can be. that takes leadership. you cannot do that by a committee but a very strong governor or legislator to say this is what the state needs to be. if you wait for that it will

take another 10 years than i worry about the state. thank you. >> it is fair to say globalization is here to said -- stay and a way of life. we're going to have continued recessions which means people will turn more inward, how will that impact of immigration? if we continue to turn inward will not shoot ourselves in a flood? >> i agree if we turn inward and become exclusionary, it will hurt us. what may work in a favor of the open market is a much more diverse country than it was 20 years ago and we have

had a migration then all kinds of folks from the south asia, mexico, come to the united states and you cannot think in one particular way because of something does not represent united states, a look at "cash for clunkers." when though hold "cash for clunkers" program was proposed by a faint they wanted it to be cash for detroit clunker but everybody qualified. that is important when you say everybody got to participate. now japan has a "cash for clunkers" program. they tried to be only japanese cars and americans said we want to be part of your program and the government announced they would be. clearly the atmosphere is there. i have some optimism even if things continue to be

bad, we will not turn the way we once had. >> it seems like with the recent election in massachusetts, it has brought up a lot of second-guessing from the papers and then be and so forth about the overall approach of the obama administration on many of these issues including the bailouts. and as you look back now, talk about what the government did in terms of bailing out chrysler and gm. a good idea? bad idea well or poorly? >> great question. how much time do we have? [laughter] i got a lot of heat because i wrote to an analysis the early part of december 2008 in which i said why would bankruptcy be so bad?

at the time i was thinking of regular chapter 11 bankruptcy where you go through the regular process of renegotiating contracts, the dealerships that are rising up to say you pulled the plug on us. it was an industrial policy decision and i have said for years we don't have industrial policy in the united states. 51 to protect american companies have an industrial policy otherwise be a free trader. i think we had one that benefited the auto industry. it is fascinating all dominated one of his first priority is and no other industry has gotten the same type of a bailout. was a good idea? it was a pretty serious time and looking at car sales, we were a at almost

depression-era levels. if the company is would have collapsed, it would have taken a lot of jobs and the american economy and would not have been without choice is, we would have had four and nameplate cars, and other auto industry, it was his decision to do it for political reasons. in my own view, as someone who has covered all of the airline bankruptcies and supply your bankruptcy is, you can restructure and come out the other side. the general motors and chrysler bankruptcy's lasted a little over one month apiece i am not sure that is necessary to transform these organizations. look at what happened with the removal of fritz henderson he was put an after rick wagoner was removed and was supposed to be a change agent sonat said

whitaker is the ceo. it is it the above the administration says you still don't get it. but they made it possible to go so quickly i think the bankruptcy balks will question whether it did not move too quickly and should have drug on a little more quickly with a little more thought given to it. thank you. >> with all of the auto companies with the electric cars thinking it is a one solution also with the go green climate change what your thoughts and would you envision a future? a couple of thoughts. i remember back in the year

2000 and 28 brought up three is over to test drive we have a lot of fun driving around and the tv guide was taking pictures of the engage john thugged guest -- negative board. i could not imagine anybody would drive wind. but it just goes to show you it can take a while for people's attitudes to change but they can adapt. will have been? we have hybrids or electric cars or dirty so? it is clear we will have more efficient vehicles because now it will be federal law of the vehicles have to get better fuel economy. i am not ready to say what the knicks will be but i read a story where somebody said nobody will ever buy electric vehicles and 2030. i will never say anything like that because then 10

years toyo tessa has sold 1 million hybrids and ford has the fusion and general motors has them and everybody will have them. the question is whether they will meet people's needs. there has been a lot of talk of a chevy volt it is perfect for the urban environment but if you live been new york city what are you supposed to do is throw an extension cord out the window and help it reaches where you are double parked? but i am firmly in the camp that says there will be more. >> we work here at a local manufacturer and i have been intrigued to that you put

out very excellent business articles today ford is hiring roughly 1200 people and chicago. at the rate of $14 at the new rate. how do you feel the union can move forward? can we really compete to get our mind wrapped around it? and also health insurance and the whole debate for as a manufacturer, frankly of love to get out of that business and not have to offer it to employees. [laughter] but to provide cash and then go buy it on their own as individuals. what do you think of of the future as health insurance? >> guest: i will take the first part of the question of the future of the union's. what happens with the

contracts signed before the bell louts the uaw agreed is to a two-tier wage system continuing workers get $20 roughly but new hires are at 14. now this will be the first big crop of people coming in at $14 per hour which is what toyota pays in the san antonio but it also pays 25 in kentucky where there are a couple of plants nearby. said new head of the uaw, my former neighbor, he has always been progressive and someone who has seen you cannot stick to the old treaty of detroit contract signed in 1950. as a great friend of the late uaw president, he really got it. unfortunately from dog to

bob, it has been a uaw leadership clinging to the past as long as possible. i don't blame them for trying to protect workers one bit but there should have been a moment may be 10 years ago where everybody said the amount where they had a come to jesus moment that we need a new contract that works when those contractors have no contract at all. i am hopeful with his leadership that the new work rules and hires will be successful. health care? walter and i teach this to my students he proposed national health care the uaw wanted to come back and have that after the war. of that was the answer i don't know if the measures now are the answer but something has to be done. i am sympathetic but on the other hand, this is why we have jobs at companies

because they can get the benefits. if you no longer offer the benefits, you have to think i wonder if i will lose people to my competitor because they offer health care. i am sure the market will make sure benefits are available but the burden has to be enormous. >> >> changing the subject i will introduce you as the expert talking about the airline industry's, i have read some of your articles, i'd like to take this opportunity to ask you what you think of the

current situation of the airline industry and where it is going and how it will affect folks like me traveling for all over the world. there seems to be an airline industry, these alliances to can have more market power. and we are affected with the airline mergers northwest. i am asking a wide open question to the thoughts that you have of the future of the airline industry. >> guest: that is something i can talk about. the airline industry, people think we are getting to the end of the first phase of regulation, 1978, we elevated controls of the

marketing side but not this safety side. what i thought it sued have cheaper werke taye share fair and competition but six major airlines, cheaper airfare at least from the '60s or '70s but for many people flying is some pleasant. people are complaining what they used to get into a ticket to is going away and they are very unhappy. southwest airlines that gives a snack and a pillow and a blanket have picked up market share because they do not charge to check the bags parker three go through the first phase of deregulation, the next is the global deregulation i am not sure if people paid

attention where american airlines and delta air lines competed very vigorously to do an alliance with jal. the reason is they become more and more important you have to be an alliance it looks like delta is very serious about their venture to a. if there was a delta and japan sky team than they already have the link with klm and air france a you already created the first global airline company. that would be a big test to see how that works. people who fly northwest of detroit it is not nordstrom's so just to think of six times larger northwest airlines is scary

to a lot of people. on the other hand, i think managers are working very hard would give them the benefit of the doubt. >> host: congratulations again on this great new book and it leads to a vital to understanding and thank you so much for coming and understanding and sharing your thoughts with us this afternoon. she will be sending copies of the book. we will move it in side. thank you very much for coming and we hope you enjoyed our conversation. [applause]

>> to begin, what is a filibuster? >> it comes from the dutch which mince pie rich they were unstoppable that is the idea that filibustering senators cannot be stopped they talk and talk only until the majority stops. >> is there such a thing in the constitution? >> it says one thing the house and senate can set their own rules basically they have the same set of rules but not until in the

early 1800's the senate had a rule that used to cut off debate by majority vote the senate had it it was not using it they did not know how to use it and out chigoes and once it is gone there is no way for the majority to cut off debate i don't think the senator's understood that when it starts to heat up agree senators that we talk about there is no rule that allows majority debate. >> host: couldn't they change the rules? >> guest: over time they have tried but what happens when you introduce of rules? it this filibustered.

that is essentially where we are today. it takes 67 votes but still we don't have 67 votes to change it. >> host: what are some of the earliest uses of the filibuster use? >> it starts in earnest in the 1840's and it occurs on the big issues of the day and we saw them it would dander jackson's behavior and the printer of the united states senate and slavery and extension of slavery from more and beyond. >> host: what were some of the earliest what with the successful uses of filibuster? >> in each episode we have seen minority blocking the extension in nebraska and to

browse between democrats over at andrew jackson in deposits from the banks it is pretty successful because of intense enough it can outlast the majority. >> host: from what i read 1917 there was a landmark event with woodrow wilson and world 41. >> guest: in their run up to world war i wilson is trying to get the us senate that would allow them to arm the merchant ships. that this filibustered and eventually will sandoz public and says there is a band of willful men blocking the u.s. and he shames the

senate to pass the bill then he calls the creation and rule 22 the cloture rule he said this is a war measure we cannot be a nation that doesn't go to war and creates a culture rule that allows the majority to cut off debate. >> host: as a scholar who studied the issue, what is your opinion of that? is that a good thing or a bad thing or that does not enter into it? >> before then it was essentially ungovernable. we say it is terrible. but looking at the 19th century, it was just as bad. it was perceived to be just as bad they had issues over civil-rights, anti-lynch jane laws, a tax is coming issues that the senate could

not act. in light of that, the senate tried to change the rules. but as a bill with a supermajority rule in the senate. >> what about the house? >> the senate early on and by the pivotal previous question, the house kept it. they massaged in a way with an instrument of power and the majority's realize that. they had a rule that cut off debate and they used it with other rules that with the majority power. it proposes a rule and minority tried to block it but it can't because to knock off the debate but we

have a majority in the house and in the senate we have the opposite it was not intended that way but that is a historical accident. >> what about the notion it is a tea saucer? is there any kind of intention for the founder that the filibuster was there? >> that answer is no part of the founders knew fully well of the danger of supermajority rule. they have in the articles of confederation but they could not act until they replaced it with the congress. they knew full well that meant they could take the bodies hostage. we said we played create them to create their own rules but they did not know the direction the senate would take. >> host: people think of filibuster with jimmy stewart and mr. stuart goes to washington. but that seems like a

classic fame and we don't see that on c-span. why not? >> guest: this is the question people ask for a wide doesn't the majority forced the minority to stand up and talk all night? why not? the argument is make them the filibuster republicans will be shamed and give up and the majority would get what they will want. first of all,, i know they get as much about cost for them that they think they will wind. their position over constituencies and health care is just as popular. there is a benefit to them to talking all night. but the majority, if you filibuster two or three weeks, and nothing else gets

done and maturity has an agenda and they want to use the floor to get things done. if you wrap the senate in a filibuster night after night after night, what is the end result? the public will look and say what you doing? legislate. i think the cost is far too high. and that is in part what keeps leaders from deploying the strategy. >> host: in our history, there have been times when people stood on the floor for extensive hours? >> absolutely senator strom thurmond from the civil-rights act of 1967 he talked over 24 hours. 10 or 12 hours by senator d'amato by a typewriter plant. they become famous, but they

are very, very few. >> host: i saw a chart in a wikipedia injury it is the charts of filibusters going up and up no more in the previous decades. is that true? >> technically it is hard to count filibusters because often they just threaten, but it is hard to count. we can count cloture votes how many times has the majority leader gone to the floor to get a cut off debate? is with the exponential increase and increasingly higher the last couple of years. there is no doubt leaders are trying much more often to use cloture to cut off debate. the majority will say it is obstructing and we have to. the minority will say you are too quick for the draw

but give us a chance before you slap us down. >> host: what is the cause? >> guest: it is a little bit of both. these are senate leaders for the last 20 years, they have been trying and trying to adjust to tactics and the majority try something else in the minority moves around it. we have majority leaders to clamp down on the senate. if we're there to legislate were consider things carefully or come to a vote and may never cloture. even if it does it may not come to a vote. that is what a filibuster prevents. bad is my alarm bell of the modern senate. .