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tv   Book TV  CSPAN  February 15, 2010 9:45am-10:30am EST

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with pull out. if roosevelt had not come down with polio in 1941, he would've been nominated for president in 1924. boris by 1924, 1928. neither one of those years was a democratic year. he would've lost and that would've been not. the fact that he had polio required him, allowed him to stay out of the political agreement until things turn around by the time he ran in 1930, 1932, he wasn't a lack in 1932 because he was franklin roosevelt. he was elected because he wasn't herbert huber and it was his good fortune to be elected under those circumstances. okay, thank you very much. and needless to say all be happy to sign any books. [applause] [inaudible conversations]
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>> let me first thank john minus and bob hill. is that better? there we go. everyone has been very, very gracious to me and colonial williamsburg. so thank you for coming out
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today. as john told you, i am a lawyer by trade, but please do not hold that against me. in fact, whenever i'm in front of a knotty up, i'm reminded of a story that is about the lawyer called the smartest man in the world. and i'll share that with you. this is called the smartest man in the world. a doctor, lawyer, little boy and a priest were out for a sunday afternoon flight on a small private plane. suddenly, the plan developed plane engine and started to go down. in spite of the best efforts of the pilot, the plane started to go down and finally the pilot grabbed a parachute, and yelled to the passengers that they better job and build out. unfortunately, there were only three parachutes remaining.
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the doctor grabbed one and sat on the dock or, i save lives, so i must live or jump out. the lawyer then said, i'm a lawyer and lawyers are the smartest people in the world, so i must live and he jumped out. he grabbed a parachute and jumped. the priest looked at the little boy inside, my son, i've lived a long and fruitful life. you were young and have all your dreams ahead of you. take a parachute and live in peace. the little boy handed the parachute back to the priest and said, not to worry father, the smartest man in the world just took off with my back back. [laughter] let me drop briefly about my new book, "in defense of thomas jefferson." and thank you for coming out here. i really appreciate that. i believe my book on the once and for all, proves that the
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sally story is pure fiction, possibly revisionist politics, but certainly not historical fact or science. in my view, to reflect the recycled inaccuracies that is metastasized from book to book for over 200 years. let me preface my remarks by saying i am not a professional historian like dumas malone or merrill peterson. i am not a jeffersonian scholar. for the past 26, 27 years, my expertise has been in the courtroom, persuading juries, given the most persuasive arguments, persuading evidence, and credible evidence to a jury. so as a civil litigator, i tried to analyze and research every scholarly book, article, committee reports, 18th century letter and ancillary material relevant to the single
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inflammatory subject of whether thomas jefferson had a sexual relationship with sally hemmings. in writing this book, i gained access to never before answering correspondence and personal interviews with jeffersonian insiders, intimately involved in the distorted and misleading dna. they revealed how evidence was manipulated into a censored predetermined official conclusion, giving the false stigma of jefferson skill to the american public. in contrast to the blizzard of recent agenda driven books, spinning the controversy of many serious of history, i found that layer upon layer of evidence points to a mosaic distinctly away from mr. jefferson. with one inevitable conclusion, the historians have a wrong jefferson.
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the dna, as well as the other historical evidence, matches perfectly to his younger brother, randolph, as the true candidate for a sexual relationship with sally. quite simply, my book presents the most credible evidence, which completely exonerates mr. jefferson. so let me give you a summation. if i were a trial lawyer, defending mr. jefferson in court, let me give you my summation, my final argument to you as a jury and bass to a jury in the public arena. ladies and gentlemen of the jury, today the reputations of america's founding fathers seem to be in disrepair. twenty-first century american seem skeptical of greatness. just as oliver wendell holmes observed quote, belittling arguments always have a force of
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their own, but you and i believe that high-mindedness is not impossible in men. the evidence in this case proves one of two things, thomas jefferson is either the most prolific, hypocritical liger in american history or he is the victim of the most profane scurrilous defamation of her allegation and legal animals. there is no middle ground. there is no compromise. the evidence, since the inception of the sally ms. 200 years ago, many americans want passionately to believe that thomas jefferson fathered some or all of sally's children. whether or not the evidence supports this venal charge or not. the legend that jefferson takes sally as his lover refuses to die because it is not good enough for some to know that his
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brother randolph or his nephew, peter carr, kept sally as their mistress. for neither randolph nor peter carr, can be made a symbol for america. indignant revisionism however is not a substitute for concrete facts and relevant evidence. blatant speculation is not drawn with a sharp pencil, but a broad brush. thomas jefferson, both a man, and his family amount to something more important than soren gossett, now obscuring his memory. the hemmings case against mr. jefferson rests on three skeletal pieces of evidence. and i want to talk about them today. framed by selective exclusion of all the scope of tory evidence, pointing to mr. jefferson's complete innocence.
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number one, the hearsay testimony of sally's son, madison, who gave an interview to a politically biased editor 50 years after the fact, stating that he, madison, was the son of thomas jefferson. number two, the unreliable documentation, stating the physical precedence of jefferson at the time that each of sally's conceptions. and three, the misleading dna, which would be excluded in a real trial and discredited in whole or part. so let's talk about the most credible evidence that completely exonerate and proclaims mr. jefferson's innocence. and let me borrow from david letterman's top ten reasons hear it and i've expanded the same little bit due to the top 16 reasons why thomas jefferson did not have a sexual relationship
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with sally hemmings, the top 16 reasons why thomas jefferson did not have any relationship with sally hemmings. number one, i feel like you need a drum roll. [laughter] brand of jefferson, presidents younger brother is sally's most likely sexual partner. he would have the same jefferson y. chromosome as his older brother that match perfectly the dna. randolph had a reputation for socializing with displays at night and he was expected at monticello approximately nine months before aspen was born, the dna match. what a coincidence. this was proven by a letter that i found in the university of virginia archive. this is not mere coincidence since the oral history of
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aspen's descendents in 1976 held that they defended from a jefferson uncle. randolph was known at monticello as uncle randolph. number two, the misleading dna results would be excluded in the real trial because it did not come from thomas jefferson. the dna was taken from descendents of his paternal uncle, feel jefferson, but even assuming the dna was admitted into a real trial, the results are gross distortions that last and utterly missed sleeping at worst. they matched a male jefferson, not thomas jefferson. randolph jefferson had six males sons. thomas jefferson had all female children, except for an infant who died within two weeks.
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the dna match with two and a male child. the dna does not exclude or rule out either one or both of the carr brothers as the father of sally's children, except for aston. peter carr in fact admitted his paternity to jefferson's rants on, jeff randolph. finally, at least eight other jefferson males and in around monticello are candidates for aston hemmings. number three, severe wind rumor was first started by the unscrupulous mongering jamestown under who burned for political revenge against jefferson. calendar was described as quote an alcoholic for what they foul mind obsessed with race and sex who defended the fame and career
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of thomas jefferson. by today's standards, he would be the equivalent of a reporter for the national inquirer. historian james trapp flo adams wrote quote, the most every scandalous story about jefferson which is still with her or believed may be traced to the scurrilous writings of calendar. best historian, winthrop jordan, stated calendar starts has been dragged after jefferson like a dead cat through the pages of formal and informal history. bus, the allegations against mr. jefferson were suspect from the beginning because they issued from the danish bullpen of an unscrupulous man and were promulgated in the spirit of political partisanship. yet this jury is asked to believe that after callender
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broadcast his life to the world in 1802, thomas jefferson was so brazen as president to have two more children with sally hemings. this despised. common sense. number four, the one credible eyewitness to this entire sexual allegation is admin bacon. admin bacon was jefferson's overseer at monticello who sought another man, not jefferson and he wrote this down, not thomas jefferson, another man leaving sally's room quote many a morning. bake wrote, quote i have seen him come out of her mother's room many a morning when i went up to monticello very early. number five, jefferson's health. jefferson's house, especially in the last two decades of his life would physically pursuant --
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prevent an otherwise persuade him from a vibrant sexual relationship with a 14-year-old girl. he suffered severe migraine headaches,, rheumatoid arthritis, diabetes, and emotional distress over the loss of his wife, the death of his daughter and his finances. it is simply beyond common sense to believe he was having an ongoing sexual relationship at the age of 64. he complained to john adams quote, my health is entirely broken down within the last eight months. number six, jefferson owned three different slaves named sally, adding to the historical confusion. yet, he never freed his supposedly for a 38 years, sally
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hemings from her enslavement or ever mentioned her in his will. seven, the paternity believers rely heavily on the sketchy circumstantial evidence of the birth records of all of sally's children to prove that jefferson was present in monticello during all of sally's conceived pregnancies. this is absolutely false. since it assumes that sally was also present at all the times that jefferson was present at monticello. sally's simultaneous presence in monticello with jefferson is completely unknown by any recorded evidence. this false and misleading assumption skews the entire timing debates. in fact, there's a specific letter in 1802 from jefferson to his daughter, which reasonably implies valley as well as her
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sister credo, may have been elsewhere beside monticello. number eight, the confusing testimony of madison hemings, who gave an interview to an abolitionist editor, has been discredited and amounts to nothing more than scripted hearsay, gossip and speculation. moreover, his capacity to observe events that occurred some 40 years earlier lacked certainty, clarity and veracity. madison was coached by politically activist editor, sf was more blood both the motive and political bias against jefferson as a slave holder and is against the south in general. in fact, it is clear that wetmore wrote some or all of madison's interview verbatim himself based on callender's
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original using some of the same language. number nine, three eyewitnesses who intimately knew both sally and jefferson, martha his daughter, ellen coolidge, jeff randolph, his grandchildren, all found the accusations inconceivable and never witnessed any hint of sexual liaison or impropriety. in fact, there's not a scintilla of evidence to prove cohabitation or any physical intimacy between jefferson and sally during the 37 years that she lived in monticello on and off. most importantly, at least four witnesses proved that jefferson was not in physical proximity to sally for 15 months prior to the birth of her son, who most resembled jefferson.
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martha randolph, thomas jefferson randolph, george with randolph and biographer henry randolph. ten, in the year 2001, there was little notice of the 13 member blue-ribbon panel of prominent historians, black, white, male and female, known as the scholars commission. after a gear of investigative thing history's most famous paternity case, the independent historians, known as the scholars commission, tanned down the summary and allegation and this was their finding. quote, our confusions range from serious skepticism about the charge to a conviction that it is almost certainly false. let me say that again. as 13 squalor is, quote, our conclusions range from serious skepticism about the charge to a conviction that it is almost certainly false.
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the scholars commission for the most expert, most notable, independent jefferson scholars, who lent their expert opinions to this jury and agreed that the accusation of an affair? not only credibility, but would be unutterably outside the moral character of thomas jefferson. the preeminent historian force who serves on the panel and who i interviewed personally quote, thomas jefferson was simply not guilty of the charge. mcdonald and other panel members pointed to the real suspect, jefferson's brother, randolph. in fact, the scholars commission concluded the most logical and credible evidence points to randolph, who was unmarried, in his early 50's, and known for socializing with the monticello slaves. randolph, unlike his accomplished brother, was easily
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influenced by others. in fact, i found an old militia list reveals connections between randolph and white men with black mistresses in two cases, both hemings. more importantly, the scholars commission concluded that revisionist slave historians have misread language and invoked psychological explanations to misinterpret jefferson's motives. the sally's story reflects one of the most striking dereliction of scholarly integrity in american history auger for you. eleven, jefferson never denied the accusation publicly, although he denied it in private writing to two cabinet members, both levi lincoln, his attorney general and his secretary of the navy, robert smith. to deny the allegations in public however, would've been to
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slander the reputation of his father-in-law, john wills, who purportedly was the father of sally hemings. his beloved wife's memory and either his own brother, randolph, or his two favorite nephews, the carr brothers, who admitted their fraternity of sally's children to jefferson's grandson, jeff randolph. as a man of devotion and family honor, jefferson chose to suffer in silence. twelve, the hemings true believers, like professor annette gordon reid has turned the debate into an obsessive agenda on the color of sally's skin and slave status. forums read, assessment of madison's interview must be taken on face value because white historians had previously ignored it are not facts, but
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racial canard and misinterpretations of the evidence itself. moreover, that is an intellectually dishonest arguments. to paraphrase, one historian quotes, i'm afraid that professor gordon reid, despite her admirable qualities is the worst thing to happen to thomas jefferson since james callender. a slave historians have taken diversity and created a hostile environment in the academic world in which scholars feel pressured to accept the hemings smith as historical truth. ladies and gentlemen of this jury, justice is supposed to be color blind and neither race nor gender, nor bias have any place in a court of law. nor in the court of public
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opinion. the only question before this jury is what is the most credible and reasonable and believable evidence, not jefferson's view on race or slavery, but whether it is proved beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt, as to whether he had a sexual relationship with a 14-year-old girl. thirteen, when it came to women, jefferson's true nature was sheepish, some would say awkward and geekish, but certainly not lustful. his marriage proposal to his first love, rebecca burwell, was in 1763 and that illustrate the point. jefferson was so nervous that he could barely utters words. he later reflected on his disastrous experience in the famous apollo room at the raleigh tavern just a few blocks from here.
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he said that he was quote, overwhelmed with strange confusion that deteriorated into a few broke and sentences. later in life, he was cloistered in his tranquil home life and monticello with his wife, who we call patty, and after her death, he was deeply conflicted over his romantic feelings for the married, maria causeway in paris. the sexual allegation and conduct towards sally is contrary to jefferson refined and reticent nature towards women. fourteen, some paternity believers are quick to believe jefferson was a brutal rapist slaveholder. yet, when jefferson arrived in monticello from paris after a five-year absence, his servants were so overjoyed to see him that they unhedged his horses,
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pulled up his carriage after the last bridge of the mountain, then carried their master into their arms, into the house. quote, it seems impossible to satisfy their anxiety, to touch and kiss the very earth, which bore him, patty jefferson, his daughter, wrote. fifteen, the hemings would have you believe that the absence of any letters to or from sally and thomas jefferson are evidence of a family cover up. this is one of the many examples of the total lack of information as proof of their sordid allegation. it merely shows that some ordained revisionist feminist historians will fill in the blanks to convert innocent information into incriminating information. sixteen, finally, perhaps the
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most important point in mr. jefferson's favor, unlike his brother by taste and training, thomas jefferson was raised as the perfect virginia gentleman, a man of refinement, intellect, who was taught and trained at the college of waving merry and was taught and trained by george with. the personality of the man who figures in the hemings soap opera, cannot be attributed to the known nature of thomas jefferson. having an affair with the house servant would be preposterously out of character for thomas jefferson. jefferson was arguably the most accomplished man whoever occupies the white house. naturalist lawyer, educator, musician, architect, geographer,
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inventor, scientist, farmer, philosopher and more. james parton, one of his biographers, characterized his subject as a man quote, who could eclipse calculate an eclipse, survey and estate, tie an artery, plan an edifice, try a cause, break a horse, dnc minuets, and play the violin. and pardon was describing a young thomas jefferson before he wrote the declaration of independence. commenting on president john f. kennedy, the assassination in 1967, walter cronkite said quote, only in fiction do we find that the loose ends are neatly tied. real life is not all that tidy and neither is the jefferson
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hemings case. coming to terms with jefferson is not easy for some in the 21st century. jefferson was no saint, but none of his biographers claimed he was. no one will deny that the facts about the paternity of sally's children are repulsive evidence of one of the worst aspects of the slave system, the manner by which some enslaved women were sexually abused by their masters. but the hemings smith has now, full circle. in 1840 citizens about amaro county quotes, vindicating the memory of mr. jefferson from posthumous slanderers, with regard to his private character. these individuals were his neighbors, who had the opportunity of personally knowing the true state of facts.
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you know, when you visit monticello, is but a short walk from the pastoral west lawn, down a sloping hill to jefferson's gravesite. as one enters the cemetery, you feel closer to history. you feel closer to thomas jefferson. , who once wrote that it was a subject i never bust and now hate. without a doubt, the hemings controversy and bodies of mr. jefferson sentiment. on his deathbed, jefferson spoke of the slanderers and libelous against him, either in quotes, they had never known him. they had created an imaginary being closed with odious attributes to whom they had given his name, and quote. unfortunately, as pulitzer prize winning virginia stab me sad, jefferson quote is one of the principal historical but dams of
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the current of debunking our heroes. finally, only two people know the true absolute truth. one was sally hemings, who wrapped herself in the mantle of silence her entire life. it should never commented on the accusation. perhaps she believes that it deserves nothing more. as historian john c. miller commented quote, we know virtually nothing a sally hemings. or her motives and she is hardly more than a name in history. the other witness was thomas jefferson, who denied the charge to friends and colleagues, declaring that quote, truth is great and will prevail if left to herself. she is the proper and sufficient
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antagonist to error. ladies and gentlemen of the jury, as jefferson's granddaughter proclaimed, there are such things as moral impossibilities. and although the sally brummer survives, no reasonable sensible person hearing all the evidence, not just cordon reads rank speculation, but hearing all the evidence, has ever declared his or her beliefs and neither should this jury. thank you very much. [applause] i will be glad to take any questions. c-span just wanted to raise your hand and i'll be glad to calling you. yes, sir. >> thank you. you hear that?
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why do you feel there's nothing in the record during jefferson's presidency about somebody saying something to whoever was doing this, that you're causing a lot of heartburn to the president. i mean, even if he did tonight twice, which i'm sure you're correct, why didn't somebody either send off the nephew or the brother to virginia beach or someplace? >> did everyone hear that question? why i think some of his friends, in fact, james madison, acted and intermarried between himself and callender. i think other people were trying to distance themselves from callender at the time. i think jefferson -- i think his whole approach to the whole affair was to have a moment of silence, not to comment publicly on the slanderers. and he didn't feel anyone really needed to defend him because in
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his view, if you deny or admit one sender, another ten are going to come up to you. so that was his public stance, that he would not deny it in public because whatever he denied or admitted, something else would come up. but i think there are other people behind the scenes, james madison and munro who were telling him to distance themselves, particularly from callender. yes, sir. [inaudible] >> on sally hemings descendents? >> dna studies on sally hemings. excuse me. the dna study, from what i've learned, and from what i know that's all they can say is that it matched a male white chromosome. a defendant from feel jefferson matched a descendent from aston
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hemings. that's all the dna says. it was not thomas jefferson. there were at least 12 other jefferson in and around that area at the time, at least of childbearing age. again my research those in all likelihood, that eston most likely candidate was randolph. all the dna said that a male jefferson was a match to a male a sally hemings. yes, sir. >> as you know, the thomas memorial association has accepted professor reeves version of the paternity, would you care to speculate why they may have done not? and would you be willing to come or have you been invited by the memorial association to debate or faster read on the subject?
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>> i would be got to debate professor gordon read anywhere anytime. i think i have a chapter in my book about the political agenda that i think the official monticello had. i think we do have and had an official release an agenda to kind of promote this story from whatever purpose is to get more business, to raise our money, to have a higher prominence profile of monticello. but i really, really disagree with it. in fact, i took two tours recently of monticello and the sally story was pretty prominent in the tour guide that attack. and i didn't say anything, because i was going to write this book. but i certainly think that the thomas jefferson memorial foundation the legacy should either not mention this or take a very neutral stance. in fact, they just excised the word memorial from their foundation.
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it's no longer the thomas jefferson memorial foundation. if the thomas jefferson foundation. and for the life of me, i can't understand that. yes, sir. >> as the charges about jefferson's sexual relationships with sally hemings were developing, and if jefferson were truly innocent, that of course he would certainly know, why would he keep her in his household and especially as she continued to bear children. >> well, there were a couple reasons. first of all, jefferson inherited this entire hemings family from his father-in-law. in fact, betty hemings was really the surrogate mother of his wife, martha. so jefferson felt a special affinity for the hemings from the very start.
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has everything that i've read from him and his grandchildren, the hemings were very trusted, valued servants. and this is why they had a special affinity. some say that special affinity was because he was having an affair. no, it was because they were trusted, valued, and intellectual people that he adjusted from his father-in-law. in fact, it was rumored that his father-in-law was the father of sally hemings. this may have been the reason why jefferson felt an affinity to treat them kind of as part of the family, certainly more in a special status as the other slaves. not because he was having an affair with her. yes, ma'am. >> you mentioned in your talk
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this evening that you've had many interviews. could you tell us some stories about the interview is and what you learned that we might find interesting? >> well, the most interesting interview, i flew down to tuscaloosa, alabama, and interviewed professor forrest mcdonald heard he was one of the professors and historians who served on the scholars commission. and i asked him point blank, i go, tell me what you think is the most important point that really proves jefferson's innocence in this whole thing. and he said, is very, very easy. let me tell you what people have not seen from the forest from the trees. thomas jefferson had all female children, except for that infant who died. randolph jefferson had six male children. the dna matched a male child. he just told me, what is more common sense?
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who is more logical as the father of a male child? randolph, having six male children, or thomas jefferson, who had all female children? and that just kind of dawned on me. i was one of the things that i learned from interviewing these people. you know, before you can research this book, i really didn't know that thomas jefferson had a younger brother. he was 13 years younger and one historian described in as a halfwit. in fact, there's only one book that's been written about his brother and that's called, randolph jefferson, the thomas jefferson and his unknown brother and it edited by bernard mayo, i believe. and that is the one book about thomas jefferson. and that's where he found the one letter from thomas jefferson to his brother, inviting him to
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monticello, the nine months before sally got pregnant. yes, ma'am. did you have a question also, ma'am? >> by sometime ago i was reading a biography of jefferson and the author discussed a situation about i believe in jefferson's twenties, when there was a woman living on a farm with her children. her husband was not present any yet approached her. i'm not real clear about the details because it's been sometime ago. can you talk about that? >> yes, that's called the walker affair. as a young man, when he was single, he admitted to purposing love to a handsome woman. her name was mrs. walker. she was married to john walker, i believe was the same. they were friends and neighbors. later on in life, thomas jefferson wrote an apology and admitted that his conduct was completely inappropriate.
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and that's the letter that he wrote to his secretary of the navy, robert smith, where he denied all the other allegations, including the sally rumors, but admitted in a letter to the walker affair, that he behaved very badly. so that was known as the walker affair and he admitted that. he was young, he was rejected and he knew he acted inappropriately. yes, ma'am. >> at the end of the day, how much do you think these rumors have actually heard the jefferson legacy, both currently certainly, but also how much was he really hurt when he was alive? >> well, obviously he wasn't hurt when he was alive because he was really good after the 1802 callender article came back. so he was elected twice.
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and they often get asked that question, give no, what does it really matter to his legacy? and i think dumas malone had the best line about that. you can never knock thomas jefferson off his pedestal, but you can scribble good freebie on the statue. and i am here and hopefully my book is here to embrace your graffiti. you know, i had one young lady asked me, which side are you want in this controversy? and i answered her, i'm on the side of truth. which side are you on? and i think truth always matters. and if this is a lie, which i believe it is, i think truth always matters especially to one's legacy. >> i understand that one of the greats of madison was found and that the hemings are not allowing the dna to be taken to
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show whether he was the son or not. >> that is true. as jefferson family historians that the name of herbert parker has found the grave of the son of madison hemings. i believe his name is william hemings. he approached the hemings and asked them if we could do this dna study because they still have the car blood. they still have the jefferson blood. and if in fact they matched, let's see whether matches. the hemings said absolutely not. they are satisfied with the oral history and the dna study at this point and they refused any further testing on his son. [inaudible] >> no, that is leavenworth, kansas, is where he is buried, i believe. that's where her

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