6' 8, 8 1/2, can do it all. i mean when i say do it all and do it gracefully. i mean with the greatest of ease. >> benji will, so his game and personality were -- wilson, his game and personality were electric, a future star in the nba until one morning when everything changed. get an inside glimpse at the man the nfl mayors have chosen to lead them in -- players have chosen to lead them in the fighnewtive rgaient. 'll uce emar ith. >> t our stin >> and a truy th abou inws tvie'

hello and welcome to this edition of net impact. we've seen nfl commissioner roger goodell and nfl players association executive director demaris smith exchanging pleasantries through the media and have even been in front of congress as the two sides attempt a collective bargaining agreement and as they do so the atmosphere will get more tense. we know goodell he's within on the job three years now but who is this man that the players have chosen to be their voice in this turbulent time? here's comcast sportsnet's mid- atlantic's jill sorenson. >> for our last practice we could play head coach.

>> yea! >> we do head coach. >> reporter: this is fun for demaris smith the executive director of the nfl players association by day and a coach for his 10-year-old son allen and his baseball team in silver vince, maryland, by night. >> tag -- in silver springs, maryland, by night. >> tag him! >> reporter: the intensity and passion you see here is smith's day job as union smith named the successor to the late and edge legendary gene upshaw in march, the man everyone calls dean has not slowed down. >> i've been on the job six months. i've probably been on the road three and a half, four months solid. >> reporter: he was seen as an outsider to get the job with former players as the front runners. his background as a trial lawyer was far from the experience of an nfl player. >> i definitely think that's a positive that he was an outsider, you know, guy coming in, he doesn't have all the connections or, you know, any

preconceived notions of what was happening before and, you know, can he come in and kind of look at things clearly. >> i'm very confident. i'm confident, that you know, he can get things done, whatever that may be. he's presented himself in such a way and i think he's broken it down to the players in such a way that we can understand it. >> reporter: as much as he's an outsider d. is a d.c. insider having grown up a stone's throw from fedex field. >> you come out of the room in d.c. and get smacked and then you're injected with burgundy and gold. >> reporter: on his resume counsel to then deputy attorney general eric holder and he also served on president obama's transition team. >> business worldwide in some way, shape or form always touches washington. it's one heck of a sports town. so yeah, those are things that are inextricably tied to who i am. does it affect what i do? probably. but hopefully affects it for the better. >> reporter: with the possible lockout on the horizon demorris

smith has made it a priority to visit each team to help them understand the process. >> this was in one of the file drawers in our office and it slowly but surely i'm going through every drawer, every cabinet. >> reporter: why? >> a great deal of our history on what we have done internally to be a stronger union is there. the one thing i'm blessed about is gene was an incredible note taker. here on the back he'd clearly written out in longhand a speech that i don't know whether he gave or was going to give, but the most interesting part at the bottom is you see it in quotes, the nfl has always been willing to take a short loss for a long term gain. >> reporter: in the midst of negotiations or perhaps because of them d. and the union have made national headlines on a regular basis. >> as executive director, my no. 1 priority is to protect those who play and have played this game. to me it is probably a little

bit of a combination of half negotiation, half trial lawyer. i mean both of those things are things that are in my dna for some way, shape or form. i think about my grandfather in the pulpit. there's probably a little bit of that, too. as a result, i'm really not afraid of my question. i want guys to be actively involved. truth be told, i probably lean on them in a very hard way, but this is their union. it's not my union. it's their union. >> reporter: always in the line of fire demorris smith is used to the heat. >> i thought that was a -- 17-year-old ben benji wilson was a rising star, a young basketball phenom with a definite nba future. in fact, in 1984 wilson was the no. 1 ranked high school basketball player in the nation. he'd been described as a magic johnson with a jump shot and kevin garnett with a better

handle of the ball and a better perimeter game. luke stuckmeyer of comcast sportsnet chicago shows us wilson's wizardry on the court. >> reporter: chicago may be a football town and baseball crazy in summertime, but at its core in the city basketball is a way of life. we're not just talking about the m.j. glory days. we're talking about the kids who built their games here like isiah thomas on the west side and more recently dwayne wade and derrick rose on the south side, but 25 years ago somebody else owned these courts in chicago, a skinny silky kid with a smile named benji. >> and center for the wolverines a junior, 6' 7, no. 25 ben wilson. >> if you haven't seen him, you're in for a treat, 20 a game. >> i would go and i want to be successful and i do what it takes to be successful and that

is when i go home i study and do my work and go to class. >> kind of corny stuff. >> well, it works. >> reporter: everything seemed to work for benjamin wilson, but especially basketball. >> wilson two. >> reporter: born and raised on the city's south side, he was the middle of five brothers and it wasn't long before that orange rock was the fiber of his life. >> looked like bruce lee with two basketballs. he approached the basketball hoops. just unbelievable what he could do with that ball three fingers pawning the ball like this. >> reporter: and with ben and his ball around the wilson's neighbors were always up early. >> the neighbors used to be furious about being woke up in the morning because he was always dribbling the basketball and one of the next-door neighbors mr. robertson said

benji was the alarm clock to get him up and go to work in the morning. >> reporter: by 16 wilson could still play like a point guard but now he soared like an eagle with his new 7' 3 wingspan. >> bankston drops it down to wilson for a turnaround. >> we used to imitate ben when he shoots his jump shot. it was like he'll shoot it and then put his wrist back like this and run down the court but everybody used to emulate him in high school. that's how big he was in high school. >> reporter: and everybody wanted to be around him. benji's game and personality drew in friends and admirers from all over including the nba. >> ben wilson steps in, scores. >> 6' 8, 8 1/2, can do it all. i mean when i say do it all and do it gracefully. i mean with the greatest of ease. i mean and it looks so pretty

when he was doing it. i mean it was smooth. it was silky. it was just you had to -- he had that camera that captured that moment. i mean he was that type of player. >> wilson slide down the lane. >> reporter: as a junior he was a starter on a lineup full of seniors. benji was third team all state and the wolverines went 30-1 for the 2a state title. that put simeon on the map. >> i think he helped push simeon into a more global nationwide type school, basketball power. i remember our senior year, you know, we thought we were world beaters, we could go anywhere and play anybody any time. >> reporter: after winning the state championship in the spring of 1984 ben kept

improving stunning scouts at the nike all american camp. he left as the first kid from illinois to ever be ranked as a no. 1 player in the entire country. >> he was clearly, clearly benjamin wilson was the no. 1 player in the country. no one came close. >> reporter: ahead how benji wilson's life changed in less than a second. >> ben's thumb was rising and then at midday. >> reporter: a horrific crime on these streets in chicago is on these streets in chicago is remembered 25 years later.

benji wilson's future seemed secure. just a few years in college before fame and wealth would schuler follow in the nba -- would surely follow in the nba, but it wasn't meant to be. instead there was a tragic turn of events and now 25 years

later benji wilson has never been forgotten. let's get back to his story. >> reporter: ben wilson had it all, sizzling basketball skills and an electric personality, but on november 20th, 1984, it was a gray cold fall day a on the like this one and on vinsenz avenue right in front of simeon high school the day was about to get even darker. >> the old guys, they've served their times and lived their lives, when the sun is eclipsed or the sun is rising it's so different. ben's sun was rising moving towards midday and then it became midnight at midday. >> reporter: at 12:37 on november 20th ben wilson was walking with his girl friend and mother of his 10-week-old son brandon. they were a block from the

school. he liked to gather at a small store around lunchtime but benji bumped into two freshmen from calumet high school on the sidewalk. they pulled out a .22 caliber handgun and shot him twice, one bullet piercing his aorta and the other tearing a hole in his liver. >> to this day i still don't know the story. i've never tried to seek out the story because the only person that could tell is and while the chaos continued at simeon benji's brothers were miles away with a sibling connection that still haunts them. >> i was in library class and i heard somebody say i got shot.

i got shot. i was in library class and i was like i'm going crazy, but then i thought about cain and abel when cain slew his brother and the most high said where's your brother? i heard his blood cry from the earth. right there something let me know that he got shot. >> and as a matter of fact, i had a dream two nights in a row before he died, somebody or something tried to tell me, had a dream that night benji was dead. next day i had a dream benji was dead. at that moment i heard my brother's voice say i got shoot just like i said to you there, came to me like. so this was something there and i was like what the hell's going on here? my mama always say you want the most high to talk to you, you got to be in a quiet place and

i was in the library class at the time my brother was shot and i heard him. when i found out, i went be serk. >> reporter: he waited fo ery as a

we seen ben on the floor by himself. that's what brothers do. >> they weren't supposed to. i don't like to talk about that but they had to see him. >> they was telling us that he's in stable condition and kenny allen pulled the sheet back and we saw him. we had to see him and we knew he was gone. >> reporter: early the next morning the day his senior season was supposed to start ben wilson was pronounced dead at the age of just 17. even president ronald reagan called the family to offer h

is dead. >> involved in extraordinary young man. >> he was gunned down. >> it's not how long you live. but how well you live. >> then i seen my brother in that casket. oh, tried to wake him up like man, you ain't dead. get up, man. get up. get up. you ain't dead. get up. then seeing those two guys who did it. >> did you know ben wilson? did you know him? >> reporter: after the shooting cousins billy moore and omar dixon were taken into custody charged with murder and attempted robbery. moore was later sentenced to 40

years for pulling the trigger and dixon 30 years as his accomplice. on the day that benji died his simeon teammates decided to play their first game of the season without no. 25. earlier in the day students sobbed at simeon simply overwhelmed with grief, but benji's mother stood tall in the gymnasium. >> so today i speak in love of all of you who keep benji's memory and dignity and be strength v and strength and love alive -- strength and love alive. >> reporter: the wake was held on the gymnasium floor and 8,000 people came to see benji lying in his no. 25 jersey.

the line stretched blocks outside of the school, mourners waited seven hours. >> i still have dreams about him like, you know, he came back and he was able to play again, but just dreams. >> sometimes i sit down and, you know, when i'm going through things, you know, i speak, you know, just like i would to my grandparents, you know. hey, benji, how you doing, that type of thing. i just can't forget about him.

this is very emotional. >> reporter: still an emotional story 25 years later. there are some updates to this story. at the time of his murder benji wilson left behind a 10-week- old son named brandon. well, brandon would go on to become a talented high school prep basketball player himself. even played some college basketball at the university of maryland eastern shore but he would leave after his sophomore season according to a school official and as for the two young men convicted of this horrific crime, william moore is still in federal prison for wilson's murder and omar dixon would tack on additional charms when he was arrested for aggravate -- charges when he was arrested for aggravated unlawful use of a weapon in a separate attempted murder case. let's move on. next summer south africa will play host to the 2010fifa world cup but it was back in 1995

when they hosted another world cup that changed the country, a game of rugby that united 42 million south africans. now clint eastwood's new movie in vic us brings this amazing true -- invictus brings this amazing true story to life and sat down with matt damon is yuntr >>rep on ma ond sporth r tochan wor >> l s ouiny. rep onat inciple that the movie invictus was born. obviously you're a big sports fan yourself. what did sports do you think has the ability to unite people like the way we saw in this movie? >> weah, spare iqued ted o

ite and ela was actually quoted as saying that. i guess there's something about getting, you know, 60,000 people in a space together g fotly sa thou kople ss tcoun caion peooss the . s cawas thiste >> b me paect faces the daunting task of a vide h afogetin the wake of apartheid. what struck you about this story that made you so interested in wanting to do it? >> that it was true. i couldn't believe it when i read it and i called clint and i said i can't believe this stor

ther fog. as hand th wad thint make no e. leas pre, it kes teso me repomandout th of e taint rugby team. francois is a pretty big guy. how did you get ady ay >>gr world ere obly t th beey so >>

sou i am i am gs d, spiroem. epor lm'stitle us rto aem t mandela used as a sou inspn anngthg near i because the country didn't fall into civil waby l e tionhould have and it's a decision that every single person in that country made. still to come he's a big and bad offensive lineman in the nfl but what are his keys to success off the field?

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take a look at san francisco 49er eric heitmann and you'd never know that off the field he's a pianoman. here's comcast sportsnet's bay area's brody brazil to show us. >> reporter: this is the side of eric heitmann people know, an offensive lineman for the 49ers since 2002. and this is the side most would never expect, at 6' 3 315 pounds he's got the frame of a football behemoth with the hands of a beethoven. >> my mom made me take lessons about 10, 11 years growing up as a kid. right around when i started playing football, football

became more of a focus for me and piano you put on the back burner a little bit. it was always secondary for me, always a hobby but something that i always kept up. >> reporter: inside his home today heitmann employs both a piano and keyboard setup inner it connected with the apple program garage band. it is here where the stanford graduate composes his best work in the form of cinematic sound scapes. >> my style is more of a movie classical theme sounding stuff i guess i would characterize it. >> so dramatic it plays well essentially. it's dynamic. >> yeah. i'd like to think that. you guys can be the judge. >> reporter: while football is the profession and composition is the passion, it's the music that gives eric an escape from life when he needs it. >> i'll be home sunday night or after a big game and maybe there's something you need to crank out on the piano to kind of relieve some emotions or something. i use it as an escape. it's a good way to kind of

release frustration or whatever emotions you're feeling at the time. it's something i've done for so long, you know, i've played for so long i don't ever really want to let it go at this point. i enjoy playing and i'm going to keep doing it as long as i can. >> reporter: it's only natural to expect eric's musical endeavors will outlast his football career, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's planning for a future behind the keyboard. >> you never know. we'll see at some point maybe if there's something you can put out there. i'd love to get in a recording studio at some point, maybe not for profit, just something i could show my kids at some point. i'll continue to do this for as long as i can. >> reporter: brody brazil, comcast sportsnet. >> he's pretty good. his team's not doing bad either. that's going to do it for this edition of net impact. i'm your host and for all of us thanks for watching, see you again next month.

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newspaper that pulitzer published will see it and made black-and-white microfilm. what they don't know if this paper was published in color and when i mean color, the color that came off the pages. they were using the newest presses at the time. this was for them as radical as the internet is for us. people would gather on park road, to feel literally the power of the press as it would churn out 1 million copies for that day circulation and to give you an architectural remembrance that i just love of this lost world that we no longer have, as pulitzer is making all of his money in 1889 he believes he needs to build a new headquarters or his paper. ..

>> it was a monument to the

media, specifically to the new york world, the newspaper they would consume. and i've always thought that was in many ways the kind of mythical legacy of what kind of world pulitzer created for the teeming masses. >> let me make one other point, both of these guys, as they come out of not just newspaper culture, but newsroom culture. and this is another thing that is essentially has already passed. you have to understand that newspapers, we now think of newspapers and newsrooms, something we've seen on television, watergate, the "new york times." it's a place of educated young men and women. it's really important to understand that's not what a newspaper was for most of the history of newspaper. people who worked at newspapers were not college educated.

this was a working-class profession. and i use the word professional loosely, this was -- you went into the newspaper business because you did to be a corporate guy. actually, because you didn't have the alternatives to be a corporate guy. you actually went into the newspaper business probably because you had an alcohol problem. and it was hospitable actually to all of these things. murdoch, you know, still the new york post is probably the last refuge of true newspaper behavior, something that murdoch remains very fond of. he likes the feeling, this feeling, he likes, he also likes that his reporters regards them as dysfunctional children who he

can control. but it is a moment in time, 100 years worth of time really, which is at the heart of a we understand, of what newspapers came to be. and is now passing. >> the newsroom culture has shortly gone. drinking was an important part of it. in the new york world building, you could get a growler, a beer to finish her story. and if you want to get the sense of a journalistic perspective in the world building, they buried a wax recording of three reporters talking. that has been transcribed. you can actually hear it on the web, and they are talking. and what our reporters and? 1889, that was a great year for disastrous. talking about death and destruction. and this is what was the culture. but we should take questions, because i could tell these

stories forever and we would never get anywhere. so you have the microphone. >> i had a question about murdoch because you were saying murdoch was worth millions and millions of money. murdoch may 2000000000 alone, with the century fox production. isn't that just pocket change went to lose all that money? >> no, no. that's certainly his view of his world, that his world exists to support his newspapers. and a certain has been true for years and years and years, and he owns the london times. and once i said to robert thompson who is now the editor of "the wall street journal," but was the editor of the times. i said, i thought the new york

post have lost more money than any other media enterprise, and he said in that regard i would not do so it underestimate the london times. but the difference is the change that murdoch, or will shortly be 79 years old. he has a family of children, all of whom are media executives and want a media company to take over. he has shareholders who are no longer as tolerant of his quick love for newspapers. i was going to say even murdoch knows the end is coming but he doesn't know. but the people around him do. >> michael, is the subscription to wall street journal, is that a total failure? is there any model that might be good for other newspapers to

use? >> you mean on line? no, it successful at the journal and i think that it can be successful of highly targeted information now you added information. but murdoch has decided, you know, he is leading the charge to impose pay walls on all newspapers. and as i've pointed out many times, this is curious, because murdoch has never been the internet unassisted he does not get e-mail, he cannot get his cell phone to work. >> would you say that is a common all the with pulitzer? pulitzer is never on the internet? >> i would say. [laughter] >> i think that this is one mo

more, one more effort on rupert's part to save newspapers, but it ain't going to work. >> i have a question. i just wonder why do you think the pulitzer paper died when it did? what sort of led to its demise? >> pulitzer made a fatal flaw, tragic flaw, in his design for the future. the arc of georgia's life if you don't know, he goes blind at the height of power. he becomes like beethoven who can hear his own music. he can't read his own paper. so he develops its intricate method of managing newspaper from a distance as he floats around the world in his yacht and seeks health treatments. he is surrounded by 17 men, all of them trained readers. so they read the paper visually to him. so they open up the paper and they say in a 72-point headline,

flashlight, so-and-so says right. picture lower left. they read a copy. and pulitzer spews out endless directives back to new york. never use that font. never refer to somebody that way. all of these things are sent back in coded telegrams, because the problem with telegraph back then as people read your telegrams. so if you're j.p. morgan and you want to buy a certain stock, by the time or telegram arrives in new york everybody has read. that stock has risen. so pulitzer develops as 5000 word codebook for everything that he telegraph. so he keeps control over his paper through this coded system. >> do people know that he is blind? >> yes, very much so. and they do some things to him. there's one man that plays cards with them and pulitzer with these specially enlarged heart, he still has some vision but the light goes through the cards so brisbane can cheat. but then what he does in

addition to these telegrams is he hasn't editors for fun reports about each other. brisbane was late to work again for the 14th time. so the whole pillage your building is this nest of spies who are all every day arriving on the desk of these coded telegrams. so when he dies, think of it as a keystone in an arch. it disappears. and has children who like many, the ones who inherit the world are really incapable of managing and replacing this key point. by 20 years after his death he is unable to sustain it. >> newspaper heirs are always seem to be particularly problematic and weak. spectacle but your point about culture. the newsroom culture, back then, a rough-and-tumble culture of people who knew how to weave a story but they couldn't fit into

culture, into life otherwise. none of them could be lawyers or other things. that's what attracted them. pulitzer children grow up in his grandest. ralph was at harvard, is complaining because joseph is father wants to cut back is allowed. and among the arguments he says how can i do without a manservant, and you are not sorely suggesting i give up my boxing lessons and lunch? all of these things for pulitzer were luxuries and his children couldn't understand. >> the second generation children grow up wealthy and are now suddenly faced with a working-class business, constructible working-class business. >> certainly. >> i have to pass to the dow jones office to get to my office, the one the our member about them vividly is yours at

this grimace over his face. ellie seemed like he was nursing some really nasty wound when he was in utter pain all the time. was he that depressed of the human being? >> it really is an amazing face. i mean, just such a sour visage you couldn't make a. you know, you know it's a newspaper face. when i first went to work at a newspaper, which was 1973, i was a copyboy, and i walked into this looked around these people and i thought oh, my god they are all go tasks. they all kind of had kids, too. and there was something wrong with all of them.

murdock looks like a guy on a copy desk. i don't know what it is, why it's such. i think it just, it just is something in his very nature your he's a newspaper guy and he looks like one. >> i have a question for james. can you tell us about the pulitzer prize, and if your book "pulitzer" can be up for a good surprise? >> well, one of the deep dark secrets is every book is up for a pulitzer prize. you are never nominate 41. it used to be 50 bucks. 75 bucks and a free copy. none has ever earned the future project pulitzer prize and interesting constant. pulitzer had to changes in life. one in the -- but about journalism as a trade and

profession that in the 1870s a group of actors say we need a journalism school. he wrote back and said you can't teach journalism in the more than you can teach marriage. and he thought it couldn't be taught. he changed his mind for some things that michael is talking about, the notion of the turn of the 20 center of professionalization, of the trade. and so he left his legacy in two ways, one to greet the journalism school at columbia, and the other the price. the prize, he used to regularly give prizes for best lead, for most colorful stories, et cetera. and people have argued that he created these things like a journalism prize as a way to cleanse himself. because he is so wrapped up as a purveyor of violence, general journalism with william randolph first. and there is some of that. certainly he began because he always thought he was going to die. is the most hyped, hypochondriac and net centric certainty word about his legacy.

but he did have a strong belief at the end of his life that journalism because of its civic role had to be taught so the prize is the second part of that. you wanted to reward. you want to reward newspapers. one of the prizes goes to newspapers. as an incentive to providing the public service. >> and is murdock, is he awarded any prizes or plans for that? >> he awards no prizes, just to know charities, is the most mean fisted man. [laughter] >> on the planet, i've had this conversation with him which, you know, he is a terrible reputation so it's very easy, if you want to improve your reputation in america, you give money a way. and so the obvious question is,

me, has enough of it, why not give some of it away. and he says my mother does that. my mother gives it away. which is most of the 50 or 60 hours of tape i have murdock sounding like this. because the man mumbles so deeply, badly and he is kind of introverts in when he begins to speak. i have to have sound in the nearest work on the states. >> that's a point for my guy, because i found when he gave money, frankly he did so without anyone knowing. there's a lot of his lectures when he did something terrible and i think when you do that, i think the pulitzer prize certainty had his legacy in mind. >> nobody in the murdoch organization has ever won a good surprise, by the way.

>> you were mentioning -- how much would that be in today's money, approximately? >> that's a tough economics question. [inaudible] >> i was going to say, thank you. what i usually do rather than try to convert it is due that. you know, if they wages a dollar a day, that gives you a sense. one of the things that's really funny is we who write about people long gone is to go and look at menus, you know, what does it cost you to buy a meal. and for most workers, a penny a day was just the cheapest and most entertainment you get. but i will give you one little tidbit about why my guy is also creepy. these little poor children who are heard almost nothing selling papers go on strike. and it is over a penny

basically. and pulitzer now one of the richest in america won't give them. if you have seen the movie, don't buy. they lose. and pulitzer and crushes them. out over a measly penny. >> that's a good point is part of the newspaper business, and so did who is a war between labor and management. and in 1986-87, murdoch break the unions in the u.k. the unions control fleet street. they are essentially they take all the money out of, they censor the news, they are in charge, and murdoch sets out to change that. and in the dead of night he moves his operations from fleet street out on the docks to an area in london, outlying area.

set up a fortress, essentially, and over the course of a year, in which most of fleet street strikes against him, he has brought in outside workers, scabs, he wins. and that was a moment in which his reputation could not have been worse. he broke the unions, the enemy of the working man. but i'll tell you, i can't find anybody in the media business in london now, the u.k., who would not say that saved the newspapers. if murdoch hadn't broken the unions, newspaper business in the u.k. would have collapsed long ago. so he is in hindsight a hero.

>> probably have time for a few more questions. >> i was wondering if you would tell us a bit about the scope and depth of your research, and especially james, primary sources that do use? and i imagine working on somebody who is long gone, probably why it took longer or your book to be produced. >> no, i am slower than michael. >> and also maybe a particularly exciting research discovery along the way. >> i think that's one of the interesting contrast that we are talking shop. michael got to interview his subject. mine is long gone, and in fact like many families, the family didn't know a lot about him. so i had to use paper records. and that's very tedious. the most exciting discovery for me, which is why sometimes i think my job build that like detective, is that pulitzer has

a brother who came to the united states and became a vastly successful publisher. started a newspaper in new york called the new york journal. this is the newspaper that was randolph hearst will eventually buy to compete against them. if you want a sibling rivalry, every day that joseph pitts arisearrives and thinks it wille put out of business by this other newspaper, he is competing against the newspaper created by his brother. i wanted to get ahold of that story. albert committed suicide in 1909. six monthly did he was typing his memoirs and a hotel in san francisco keeping everyone awake. so i knew the memoirs existed. i was able, through obituaries, to trace his line of the family. since these two brothers didn't speak to each other, none of the descendents knew each other. so i couldn't call the pulitzer's and say where our albert's memoirs. i found an art teacher in texas. he said if anyone would do a thing about, and burial would. and merrill lynch in paris. pics i sent her a federal express letter and i got back the school district handwritten letter which said i might indeed

have what you're looking for. however, i can't part with the but if you could see yourself coming to paris i would be glad to share it. i was on the next icelandic flight to paris. she did indeed have her unpublished grandfather's memoir, which allowed me to show a different side of joseph, to show the civil rivalry from a different side, to show the early temperament. the reason she had hidden secret from all this is that when she came to paris in the 1950s to become a religious sculptors, she worked in a small church, what is the da vinci code movie, you know what church i'm referring to. our workshop was on the top. because when she started doing her work and she is the name billeted pulitzer, they all say you must be related to the famous pulitzer. and if you want to make it on your own if you don't want it. so she took her mother's maiden name and basically disappeared. she passed away last year, but she provided me with that and some of the photographs that are in the book that no one else had

seen. so that was probably the most exciting kind of detective story. i felt a little like, what's that good looking guy, harrison ford. i was the indiana jones, a moment of biography for me. but michael got to walk in and talk to his guy who i just didn't really talk, he grumbles? mumbles. >> inexplicably. and it is still the primary question about my book is why did rupert murdoch let me into his office, his company, his family? and virtually no one has an answer. i think that the reason is that he had a sudden moment in which posterity seem to call. now i am a curious choice, if you're thinking about posterity, because i've written probably more words about people in the media business than anyone ever has, and very few of those words are kind words.

so why me? well, partly the answer is that murdoch had never read any of these words. [laughter] >> and then after the book, the book came out, or was in the process and he was angry about it, his sort of right hand man kind of permanent lieutenant, i would ultimately be fired partly because of this book, he called me and he said, he said what have you done? i mean, he said, this book is all about him. [laughter] >> and i said, i said, well, it's a biography. and he said, but it is so personal. and then i realize that these guys had never read a biography. [laughter] >> or they had an idea of a

biography that would be strictly chronological and it was sort of a book of lists that would recount the deals they had done, and who was related to whom, et cetera, et cetera. but everyone around him, to this day, at this very moment, you can rest assured that they are still muttering and wondering how this ever happened. but i will say that it happened because of the murdoch. it was his fault. and the book is right from the horses mouth. >> one more question. >> what does it say about american journalism that the two central figures come from out of the states?

>> well, i'll be curious to hear michael's, because in some respects one of the enormous differences is class background. but for pulitzer, part of his allies as a journalist and seeing new immigrants, not as a threat but as an asset, was his own experience. i mean, coming here with not a penny in his pocket as a mercenary soldier and working his way up, doing every possible job in saint louis, and give you a hint of his temper, he has a job as a waiter at one point in a restaurant. he manages to drop the tray in the person's lap and then he breaks the customer for this problem. he didn't last very long. but i think that shaped him in ways. we talked also about the fact that not giving an immigrant but becoming penniless, the divide between him and his children who were forever disappointed. and it blinded him in another respect. he becomes very -- becomes

conservative about wealth as he becomes wealthy. and he is unable to see that change in himself. i may be quoting them incorrectly but i believe it was churchill who said that anyone who is not liberal as a young person has no heart that anybody who is not conservative as an older person has no brain. well, pulitzer is implemented of that. he becomes, as he goes through this trajectory, of having -- you mentioned breaking labor unions that he was the defender of labor until the pullman strike -- the homestead strike and begins to turn on labor, too. so i think the most shaping characteristic, to most, one being penniless immigrant and rising up through america, and believing in its promise. because was delivered to them. and the second one which is the unknown one before, he was one of nine children only of which to survive. his father died. he grew up with this fear that he was going to die any moment.

it gives you a sense of the man in a hurry. >> its elemental to murdoch, not just that he comes from somewhere else, but that he really believes he is connected to know where. and not with a sense of regret. he believes he doesn't have to be connected to anywhere. he believes he is a state unto himself. and pcs the media -- he sees the media in that regard. the media gives him the kind of power of the state. he is the equal to any man in government. as a matter fact, he believes he is significantly more important than they are, and since they kiss his, he is regular remind that they are more important -- that he is more important than they are.

but he is very much of the feeling that it is the sovereign state of news corporation. and the rest of the world. >> it's like we're at a funeral for the media, and likely to giving its final benediction could probably go on all my. but i think it is time to thank you for being so attentive to our stories, one about a man long gone who's maybe the opening chapter, and perhaps if michael is right, one about a man who is still alive who could be the closing chapter on the newspaper world. >> these are two remarkable bookends. >> thank you very much. >> two remarkable journalists up here, thank you for such an insightful conversation. i want to say a big thank you to c-span who as been coming here today, c-span booktv he is our favorite media.