and rector of institute deals with china, talks about how china's future will impact the united states. tanf lie high school antenna flight new jersey is the host of this event. it is an-hour and 20 minutes. >> thank you very much and thank you david. if it weren't for david we would not be here. we are at frankfurt book fair where we were introducing, we were launching the chinese division of "china's megatrends." that was in september, october i guess. it would have been published in

china in september, and just now this last week was published in the u.s.. the u.s. publishers were lagging a little behind even though they didn't have to translate it but that is another story. that is another story. we are going to talk here not for very long, maybe 15 or 20 minutes to kind of frame what we are coming from, because we want to have a conversation with you. we want to talk to you about what your questions are. how many of you have been to china? wow. maybe we had better read group here. [laughter] that is terrific. it is part of the world that we are going to talk to you about. we have been talking this last week especially intensely as we have been touring here in the states and we both toured in china which is another experience, really adjusting and not that much different actually from touring in the states.

but you know, as we have talked about china and some of our interviewers and so forth, sometimes we talk about china, what they are doing and how they relate to us. sometimes it gets quite emotional and i would say. >> yes, and you have mentioned, and we got to know david in frankfurt, and frankfurt was sort of a clash between china and germany and the question and where china stands and what china stands for. and the same emotions we sometimes here. and when we were in china, of course the chinese asked us, what can we do to make our picture to picture the world has a bus, better? it is quite a bit of communication questions. how does china communicate what

it is and how does the west try to understand what china really is? and in china, we used an example. because it is somehow, if the world would be a neighborhood, into which a new neighbor has moved and this family has not gotten too much attention for quite a while, but all but all of a sudden this family starts improving its house and it gets the attention of the other neighbors. of course, with anything that is new in a certain environment, what starts first is gossip. and gossip is more interesting it is negative gossip so we should not be astonished if what we hear about china is mostly negative.

everything is gossip, but some is quite justified. but it should be balanced, and we as the established neighbors, as they called the rest of us, we should try to get a picture of what this new neighbor is really like. and, this was where we started when we wrote our book. we wanted, taking the experience john has had in china and the experience i have had with my 10 years compared with his 40 years >> 40 years. >> to analyze what china is really like, what china stands for. >> you know the extraordinary story of the rise of china, but it bears repeating. in 30 years, china went from 137th gdp, 100 and 37th

economy in the world, same as malawi in 30 years to becoming this year the second largest economy second-largest economy in the world. extraordinary, and of course we have got to understand what that means and how that impacts on all of us. but already 470 of the 500 fortune 500 in the u.s. are in china and we are already doing all this business and that is why, partly by the rose up to number two. i want to put in that into perspective too. they were three countries that are about the same, same size as our economy, germany, japan and china. and, china moved up past germany last year and moved past japan this year to be number 2. but these three countries, the size of their economies is between four and 5 trillion. that is it so when china moves up to be number two, it will be

5 trillion something. the u.s. is 14 trillion or kobach is the larger picture. so, china is not going to pass the united states by next christmas. it is going to take, it is going to take a long time. but it is interesting what they are doing because it is not only the gdp. the gdp is just a collective figure and the more you put all the figures together the more you lose intelligence. there are certain parts of that chinese gdp that are really going to move the very early fast and those are the new technologies. you have heard of the company that warren buffett invested in, the largest foreign investor and they are going to introduce the electric car, a hybrid initially into this country this year. but that is a new technology.

the head of that company said something very interesting. he said, we can't possibly compete with ford and a lot of the big western companies who have had 100 years of experience with the gasoline driven cars. however, with the electric car we are all at the same starting.. it is not only with the electric car. they are looking at robotics, biotechnology, telecommunications and nanotechnology, all of the new technologies where free buddies at the same starting.. it is very smart. so, it may be 20 or 25 years before china catches up with the u.s. if it ever does. in many areas, china is going to xl. something else that you must know, and that is that today,

and this seems to be, you probably know if many of you but it has surprised everybody else, china's economy is now 70% private, 70% private. private sector economy. that is what china is all about, in the private sector. so, the other thing i think we like to talk to people about is that there there were no communn china. china is a country with no ideology. it is not communists, it is not capitalist. it is something entirely different. it is a pragmatic building of a new social economic system. and that is a system that we have called vertical democracy.

>> you all know that about 200 years ago, with the constitution of the united states, america founded or created the modern western democracy. we believe that china is on the way to create a counterpart, another kind of democracy, which as john said, we call vertical democracy. and, i want to make a little drawing so that we can visualize how we got to the understanding, why we call it a vertical democracy. we began looking at the western democracy, because you can imagine when we were studying

china, we were not content with socialism with chinese characteristics. that does not really express what it is. so, we looked at the west and we find that this is sort of a horizontal structure, where the people all are equally entitled to periodically elected government. so these are the periods. to simplify, in this western democracy, you have party a and party b and of course they are competing to get the most votes to have the justification for governing. what is natural is that party a has to make party b wrong and party b has to make party a look

as bad as possible. that is in the nature of gaining as many people to vote for my party. so, if we look at the structure, it is of course, gets everybody that position to vote for a or b but it is also a market by being system. when we look at china, and you probably know the political structure of china quite well, we have a quite large government structure with different levels of decision-making. but, we have, although there are different parties, in general we have a one-party one party system, and then we have the huge population. now, how is china ruled?

well, we analyze that there are bottom-up initiatives and top down directions, and the way the system works is by this interplay of the bottom and the top or co-this of course is the government is a constancy which allows the government to make long-term plans and long-term strategies, because it is thinking logically it does not have to be a lecture and driven. the people, the bottom, as we look at china and its development, is more and more in power and get stronger and stronger and the government listens more and more. it is a maturing process and

this vertical structure of a government that gets its justification not by being elected, although there are many elections on the local level, but by the success the achievement that is why we call that a vertical democracy. >> lets me give let me give you two quick examples of the bottom-up initiatives and china. the first took place right after deng xiaoping took over in 1978, when, and all the people know the story as some of you know but early on deng xiaoping's period and of course he is the great father of all of the changes in china. 18 farmers in the northeast and

a very poor village decided that they would break up their collective. all farming was done with collectives in these 18 farmers who were part of this collective said, and they discussed this for some time and they said we want to divide this up into 18 families, the family units and some of the people worked very hard in some of them were very smart about it. some of them go, let's have everyone just work for themselves. this was totally against the ideology of the party of course at the time. it turns out they had the support of the local leadership which was really very good, and deng xiaoping eventually found out about this and within five and a half months, this bottom-up initiative by these 18 farmers became national policy and they changed from collective farms to family unit farms. everyone did not do 100%

overnight but that was the initiative started within a short period of time that changed everything. an example of bottom initiatives has been going on for five or six years, 10 years i guess, is that cities and provinces all over china have been initiating and doing business with foreign companies, in foreign countries and creating joint projects. this was always supposed to go through beijing. more and more it didn't go through beijing. and last year, just last year 2009, the national government made this national policy. that all projects could be done directly to foreign companies and foreign companies up until $100 million. and then, that had to be somehow checked with the central government. a change that policy so there are two bottom-up initiatives that were embraced by bill

leadership and in this dynamic. you always have to keep a balance between initiatives coming up more and more and the directives that are coming down, but you know in this 30 years, now 31 or 32 years china going from 137 to the second largest, how did they do it? the question is, how did they do it? that is what her book is about. we have sorted out what has been going on in we say look there are eight colors that underlie the ship to a whole new kind of society. and pillars is a very, correct me if i am wrong, a very big-- in chinese because the pillars in the chinese poor means both the structure of the building and principles so that was very good for us. the very first one did deng xiaoping articulated early and

very famously and a big speech was the emancipation of the mind. he said we have to move from indoctrination to emancipation. we the government can't do it alone. the people have to do it and we have to emancipate the people so that they can build a new china. another of our pillars is framing the forest and letting the trees grow. so the government said okay here is what we are going to do but how you do it is up to you. for example, the special economic zones, they said in these economic stones there are no taxes for a while and this and that but how you want your art-- entrepreneurs to do it is up to you and by the way those who take advantage of the emancipation first of course roger for numerous including artists who were great entrepreneurs and that is the

energy from that. the other pillar i guess we can mention is the idea of crossing the river by stones. you have probably heard that. we sort of liked like liked it and i certainly liked it as a way of life. adjusting your courses you try to get to the other side so they had all these-- china, no country on such a vast scale practice the way china has. they try things and they don't work and they are a very pragmatic country. we do what works and let go of what doesn't work. so, we will probably be talking about some more of the pillars in response to questions, but especially the emancipation of the mind was what launched china 32 years ago. >> when john says trial and

error, we listen to that and we say, trial and error but imagine if in the united states this was a huge debate about health care and the health care system. now, what if president obama would say okay, let's declare oklahoma to be a trial and error firm for the new model for health care. could that happen? probably not, because party a would anger the party b and party b would bang at party a. while we are not voting against western democracy at all, because the europeans claim to have the heritage of human rights and all of that. we should seriously look into the open mind, look at china and see what they achieve by using

different methods of communicating with the people and listening to what the people want and how it works. and, the last time we were talking to students, we were just talking on her way here. when we talk to the students and 10 jang. that was economics and finance. the first time we came to that university we really thought we would be somewhere in the united states and some elite university because it is such a modern, we call it compounds campus, and what we experience to bear when we have our conversations and discussions with the students is

this energy of the next generation. we don't really think, before i really got into china and analyzing what china was about was where china comes from, what occurs behind it. 3000 years of imperialism and then the 20th century which was filled with humiliation by other nations and chaos, and they really, the generation after the cultural revolution really started from. of if the chinese can people who art in your age now and a little older, is a completely different generation, which a generation

which has not experienced all of the suffering and the poverty their parents and grandparents had suffered through. they experienced social freedom that has never been there before. and we believe that this generation, which is now building a new china, while you are building the america of tomorrow, has the chance of really creating a new world because for the first time, the two biggest nations in the world , china and the united states, are not enemies but are really seeking to find a way to cooperate with each other in a positive way. and we think that is a great opportunity for you, being in america, and for the chinese. and, we believe the more you see

-- when we read the articles about china in the media, it is often that you were pushed in the a regiment. look what china does to us. it is taking our jobs in doing and doing this and that. that puts you in kind of a victim thinking but you can also think, what opportunities do we have? what can we do with this new market? what can we do with the population that is one fifth of the world which is much more open, which is opening up to the world and what can we do in our personal lives and for countries to live together and make everything better? >> now your questions. yes. front row. frenchboro center. microphone for c-span.

>> thank you. dr. naisbitt thank you for taking my question. in reading x'ers from your book you speak a lot about the efficiency of the vertical democratic system and the efficacy of bottom-up change but i have to ask in a political system where they are not free elections and the government, how is that ensured that the government stays true to the wealth of people and respects the rights of the people and do you see this potential clash going anywhere in the future? is there anything that might happen that would challenge this one-party system? >> well, there are elections in leadership. they are very well, very much contested among the leadership and they will be coming up in 2012 as far as we can tell. but it seems to us that the leadership is decided by its results, tested by its results

and those results, and you know the pew, are they in new jersey? the pew polling organization, their results in china was that 89% of the people approve of the government and approve of the leadership versus 47%-- this is a western measurement. >> what i could actually-- how is the system sustainable and that was your question. we say that the sustainability of the system depends on keeping an equilibrium between the top down versus the bottom up. and the government i think, it is a maturing system. it is only 30 years. its history is 30 years versus

the rest of the democracy that has 200 years and you are much younger of course but if we think back how did the united states no 50 or 60 years ago? john have-- was one of the people who lived through that time when there were riots and when there was no-- so it is easy to forget that the western democracy advocates time to develop into mature. and the chinese, as we said, is only one third they are as we think that the government increasingly gives more space, gives more prim to the bottom up initiatives. and that backing off the backing off of both sides-- when the bottom goes up and goes a little too far than they take off a

little bit and the top down pushes a little too hard and they have to back off. this balancing out is what will keep the chinese model sustainable. >> what is not publicized in the west is all of the hearings that are now being held for new projects, for a new dam being built or a new plants being built and the hearings that are being held in the neighborhood, they canceled two chemical plants because there was too much, too many people in the neighborhoods affected. they are having all kinds of hearings, not in every province. as you know, from the difference between the provinces is great. china is the most decentralized country in the world. that is another thing you have to know what is happening. but the government backs off of things in one example i will give you, when they think the people are not responding.

for example, and you know much more about this than we do, but when they try to change a stylistic change in the chinese characters, there was so much disapproval around the country that they canceled it. they are starting to do this. it is just beginning but the whole thing about hearings for projects and so on is part of their, this new vertical democracy that they are doing. just the beginning, but it is starting their and that is what we think will mature because the people are responding and seem to seemed to like it. but, problems. >> just this morning i was at mpr and there was breaking news about google's computer systems being hats i guess were invaded by what might've been state-sponsored or

state-supported initiative from china. and, it brought to mind the way china has limited the access to a lot of information through google, google working with china has had to limit the results of searches on their search engine. and i was wondering how you reconcile this notion of the emancipation of the mind with the limiting of information? >> first of all, it is not breaking news. it is treated that way on the web in the and the back-and-forth between the chinese government and google has been going on for five or six years. google took a really big hit you might remember four years ago for some censorship that the government wanted in this continues. we don't know who is hacking by the way, but the larger picture is that the 350 million people on the internet in china, more

than any country in the world by far. and that government gets freaked out now and then about some of the things that are on it and we have read a lot of blogs that are just amazing, what they are writing about the government did everything else. the government is trying to figure this out. from a western.of view this is a no-win game for the government. they are not going to be able to do this but they are struggling to see how they can do the transition to the kind of openness that other societies have and they are very defensive about the shortcomings of china. so, this is going to go on and on and on as everyone tries to figure it out and get comp triple with it. at it is not a breaking story. it is a continuing story. ..

>> the facing the government. you probably value really high is stability and harmony. and now while the idea might be from our view, okay, let's have elections next year, if the government is so good, it will

be elected anyway. imagine what would happen if that really would take place. how one party or one group would fight against the other. and the chance of really terrible chaos in this country would be absolutely there. so it is a balance of slowly empowering the people so that the process of democratization can be with a harmonious one. and the united states has experience that you cannot take democracy and put it on a country. because it doesn't work. if it doesn't grow out of the people. and that's what has to take place in china too. >> what was i going to say about this?

well, we'll take another question. >> thank you. i was wondering is this vertical democracy, could it be a model for other countries? or this a system of government that really only works with the chinese mindset? >> well, if you're one of the many under developed countries that have been trying for decades to grow and prosper and make it's economy better and you've dealing with the west and the aid programs, government to government aid programs, you are open for another model. and indeed, the china has become -- how did they do it? how did they do it, in 30 years when we can't get it done, it's becoming a model for a lot of developing countries, if i can include that under developed countries, russia. there are a whole bunch of

russians and chinese today trying to figure out the chinese model. how did they do it? i was going to say that too often. you can do democracy many, many ways. it was invented by the greeks. but our likes, greeks were not democratic. they had slaves, they -- they have very few elections, women couldn't vote and so on. you know, switzerland, one of the great beacons of democracy, women only got to vote 20 years ago. democracy is in flux. how you practice is in all different ways. oh, mississippi. are you ready for this? 13th amendment, end of slavery; right? mississippi didn't ratify the 13th amendment until 1995.

i mean it's a process; right? so they are starting -- it's primitive in many ways from a democracy, pure democracy in the western idea. but the problem is you can do democracy in many different ways that the west insists that there's only one way. that's our way. that's going to get us nowhere if we keep thinking that's the only way and only if we do it our way can we call it a democracy. we have to get beyond that. >> i was actually in china the past summer for a month. you two collectively had been in china for decades. so you must have seen many of the amazing changes that you've been talking about. so i was wondering if you could discuss some of those changes and perhaps what inspired you to write a book about them.

>> go ahead. >> china was such a poor primitive backward place when i started going. i've been there a hundred times. i don't know. but many, all through the years, i've seen the slow but nothing really much happens until 1978 when zen dong came in. and we've -- so over the years people have said well you should write this. i had one variance. is that in the book? it is. some of you looked at it then. in 1996 i had a private meeting with minh, a president in

china. it was very interesting. i grew up on a farm. we really got involved in lots of things. and it was '96 is sometime with trouble in taiwan and the mainland and so on. that was a big subject, so it was elephant in the room. it's a great story. china had a big -- in '96, china has a big story to tell. you are doing, mr. president, a terrible job doing it. silence. and finally he said, and he was speaking english, finally he said, why don't you do it? why don't you tell the story of china? and that really started me on the journey that really didn't

get under way until we started to go to china in 2000. but that's -- but the inspirations was how did they do it? why would you bet against china? china record. you can think that. but, you know, it looks as if it's going to go on. we think -- our guess is that china across from the river and getting to the other side, china is only about 1/3 of the way. >> what is so fascinating in china is that when you come there and you look out of your hotel room, and this is -- you

looked high out of the window in january, there were houses in march, not march, but in september. and, you know, it was unbelievable. buildings are growing like mushrooms. and now this what happens in the main -- what happened in the main cities earlier on is now going to the providences. moving is not only in the coastal area of china anymore. but it was moving towards the west of china and the north of china.

because what is happening is that the factory, it used to be you all have heard about migrant workers in china. those were -- china had mostly farms. farmers. and they were really dirt poor. i mean really not knowing how to feed the families the next day. now when they are opening up and reforms began and along the coastal lines, the factories were built. those farmers started to move where the factories are. of course, that brought about 400 million people another -- people out of poverty. now wages are going up in china. and what is happening that the factories are moving to where the people are. so increasing factories are built in the poor region of china. which brings economic wealth to the people who have not yet such a share of the economic progress

that china had. and what china also -- and this is a question of the efficiency of a government. what china working on the infrastructure. so we are building bullet trains. a net of bullet trains all over china to connect the poor region with the wealthy region to give with access to all what is going on in the east of china to the west of china. this is a very smart strategy. >> you talk about -- can you hear me. you talk about the economic

transformation in china dating back about 30 years. and in america, i'm interested in some of your comments about what some of the trends have to say for us here. because for about 30 years we've been having difficult economic development, some of them directly -- that's a very common opinion in this country. >> that's a popular opinion that china is responsible for their own problems. >> china is a threat. i think the united states has to bare the responsibility of what happens to the united states. but the united states is part of a much larger shift, that's the shift from the west to the east that's been going on for some time. i'm not sure it's irreversible. but it hasn't been reversed for

the time periods we are talking about. we talk about democracies here. such as the time in the west, all over the west, all the parliaments, not only the u.s., all of the parliaments are paralyzed. nothing is getting in. look at uk. and so what is happening? what is happening is it seems that the west with all of this progress, somehow their energies were spent. and their kind of drifting back again. but whatever the reason is, it's because -- the shift, the huge shift is from the west to the east with china being the leader . four or five of the u.s. companies are in china. general motors, their profits

and general motors sales in china went up 50% in 2009. one the reasons general motors has been saying we're going to make a profit in 2010. china is helping this, not a threat to this, but certainly the decline of the west is matching the rise of the east. >> how does general motors profit for the china workers or american facilities? how do multinational -- >> it's the same company. >> but how does that help in terms of labor market and business that's done in america with american -- >> this is a kind of zero sum game. if you gain workers in china, you have to lose workers somewhere else.

in a global economy that's expanding, you can increase workers everywhere. and that's the direction we're going. we're moving -- in a very large way, we are moving toward an -- a global economy where we are all so economically connected and integrated it's just one economy in the world. we won't be able to sort out what the gdp are. in fact, they are not very trustworthy now. you really can't say what the gdp of the u.s. is, the u.s. is interplaced is germany and china with the rest of the world as we move towards one economy for the whole world. and this -- their taking jobs is an old idea that before globalization came along, the west is still mostly industrial. and that's when the west keeps

up with the new technologies that create the new jobs. it's going to be in trouble. look at china. i mentioned earlier, china is focusing on the new technology ies. not the old industrial technologies. on the new technologies, that's where the growth and jobs are. and the west -- if it continues to focus on the old jobs and not on the new technologies and the new markets that will create the new jobs, will it recede increasingly over the next decade. do you want to call on somebody? oh. >> hi, thanks so much for coming to our school to share what you observe in china and your knowledge and your analysis. i particularly like that analysis of vertical democracy. and i -- i came here 20 years ago. and i've heard a lot. why china is not doing this and not doing that?

and i could tell there are certain things that we are practicing here, our democracy cannot be directly transferred to china that will work. and that's why i really appreciate you analysis. there are two things that are interested. one, you mentioned in china, there's no communism, there's no capitalism, or socialist and no idealism. that's what i have observed. and something -- the government is doing right from bottom from top down or bottom up and means somewhere that is working, chinese people are happy and people are having more and more wealth. but in the process, i see something is getting lost. and that is what i have observed that people are more into money and running out of that. after all, that's understandable after so many years of poverty and no wealth and all of the

sudden they can own car and houses or whatever. and i've seen that. but i see that more kids of our kids -- our counterparts of kids sitting here really do not have a lot of things in spiritual part. and they are working very hard, they are studying very hard, but some part is missing. and that's something i wonder where you have observed and whether have some comment on. another thing is in, you know, we tend to see chinese students studying very hard, but more in a box. and not as creative or no -- not as much community as our students have in america in terms of, you know, being more creative or giving opportunity to creative and free thinking. they are more boxed up. but somehow, their kids coming out and producing that kinder,

you know, innovation or technology that is catching up to be number two. how can our kids here prepare themselves and compete with a kid in china? thanks. >> good questions. >> to your first part of the question, to the spiritual despire which we all have. 30 years ago, you know better than i do, you know, when you are dirt poor, your spiritual desire, of course, is overwhelmed by the desire to reach a certain degree of wealth. and so, of course, the government and the people were working towards the direction of having modest wealth for themselves and for the country. but the government as well as as the people, you know, it's -- when you wish -- when you really

wish for something to get something, the period in which you want to have it and in which you are fighting for it to get it, this -- whether it's wealth or a car or whatever, has a much higher value than when you have it. once you have it, you take it and are forgiven. and then the awareness of other things is growing. and the same with the chinese. they have reached or part of the chinese have really reached a certain wealth. and now there are searching for this spiritual -- for their spiritual -- to feed their spiritual needs. and i think it was ho chin dao that we have to not only create

a material -- what's the word? >> a national country but also a spiritual country. >> a spiritual country. they are doing their best to revive confucianism and the culture and the heritage is valued very highly in china. they have a wonderful history. which we see coming up. they do a lot to support the language and the culture. the people and government is fighting for is to have a balance with between modernity and history. that's not -- we all have to balance our life between what we

want to achieve economically and what we want to achieve in our personal values. >> as to education. first of all, china has a literacy rate of 96%. because the chinese have always put a premium on education. but their education system is almost totally rote learning. particularly those people on the course to university, it's all taught, rote, it's all boring. but that's true with most education. but most education systems in the world. we've got -- we have all over the world we are teaching, we are doing the education yesterday as we are trying to get through today. and we should be really at least teaching education for today if not for tomorrow. the chinese are working on that.

i remember remember -- remember that television show dialogue. we had a big audience and television show in china. the government has just announced that mandatory education for nationwide eight years was going to go to 12 years by 2020. i said wait a minute, wait a minute, you're talking about keeping kids in school for four more years but giving them the same kind of education, same kind of rote education that doesn't address to the creativity. and i said the point is what are they doing when they are sitting in school or 8 years or contour 12 years? what are they learning? how are they learning? we got a great recognition for that. so we talked about crossing the river. trial and era. a lot of experimentation to

figure out what kind of education for today's world. and no one in the world has really -- he has such a great primary and secondary. we have such a great higher education because of competition. for decades and decades and decades, the university have competed for students. compete thed for competition, for customers. why don't you have a marketplace economic system or at least change from the rote education. that's a big, big issue in china. >> i live in china. i've been here for like two

years ago. so what i observe was that the education system was actually not that great as you said in china. because they -- i mean what i experience was that the con constant change of policies made by the educational department. basically, they are talking about different ways of selecting the leads for the country. instead of becoming a person. instead of the focus on heritage and cultural thing. because that's what actually hindered the creativity in china. because what the parents, what

the authorities said, and they just keep following that. also what i observe was that the law enforcement part of the government was actually not that great. so how do you think that china should improve on the laws and the education and that's basically my question. >> well, you know, as you probably know, last -- late last year the education minister got fired. remembering? for china. which is a measure of what's going on. fortunately, much of the education system is also decentralized. and really in the hands of the providences and the cities in many regards. but the problem is that whether given what you said is the rote learning that we think is the most corrupting thing in that system. >> yeah, we had a discussion,

actually, one of the government officials. and he said that the priorities to change the education system. but who with is the corp.s, who teaches you? those people. the mindset of the teacher cannot be with changed so easily. that's the problem. how do you change the teaching methods of the teacher who are totally still in that chinese thinking of respecting authority, not questioning authority, be quiet as a mouse and only speak when you are asked. that mindset, you have to start with the teacher. but that's very difficult to change the thinking of the teacher. and what they, of course, try to do is get people into china who

bring a different spirit. and that cannot be done over night. that's -- >> one interesting new directive, and this is not responsive holy to what you've been saying. but every -- in every primary and secondary school, you have to take science and math. and these have been taught by anybody. now the new directive is for those teachers who teach science and math, the teachers have to have a degree in those subjects everywhere before they can teach it. that might even push harder for more rote learning and feedback. but it's part of really trying to be responsive to the great flux, and it is, we think this is good rather than they are doing frozen in some position that they are going to keep. there's lots of talk about it,

lots of engines, lots of push there. >> to the thought, i think i said i'm european. [laughter] >> and we have noticed that the chinese government is trying to build an elite who can run the country. but not an elite soviet style, but people who can really think that shows that some capitalist billionaire, let's put it that way, are now part of the government. and they are moving in people who are not part of the communist party. but i can tell you if you are in the west and you compare the politicians and the thinking and the education of some western politicians of eastern europe, then you sometimes wish they had some of the whit of the chinese

politicians. but that's, you know, a european statement. [laughter] >> so. >> someone standing back there. >> yes, hi, i'm the vice principal, thank you again for being here today to give us that opportunity. i appreciate your comments up front about being mindful of the sources and the intent of the stories we read about china. given that, are there one or two main perhaps negative trends that you're seeing as china tries to figure out of this out which you have some concerns for nation about. i'm fair with the lack of sophistication and lack of what you are doing.

they are jerked around in the stories by the western press. they really get upset. they don't know what to do about them. they are very inept in dealing with the rest of the world. they are trying. it's the whole idea they want to join the world and be a part of the world. they will still pretty primitive in how you do that and how you respond to the interactions that you have with the rest of the world. the great gap between urban and rural that we all know about. they are working on that. it's going to take a long time. but it's still profoundly there. there's a great difference between the urban centers and out on the farm.

that's one the gaps the china has for sure. the age. everyone get thing a lot older. the demographics are really going to be a problem down the line. >> hi. i know you stated a lot of reasons for the rise of china, i believe you listed eight pillars. were any of those pillars about china's lack of environmental regulation for any of those about china's poor building codes. were any of those about china's back of basic workers rights where any of those pillars on those topics. >> yes, the pillars. there's a couple of them. first of all, you should know we

monitor papers and local reports. the local press is really -- the golden age for local reports. we monitor everything that's going on locally in china. and the two biggest issues, the two biggest issues for local papers all over china, both editorially and in the news coverage are corruption and the environment. we could add that to the list. but it's amazing what china's doing -- there are huge, huge problems and also in workers rights. they have -- they have a lot of new workers rights program policies for migrant workers, including providing lawyers and

things like that. but the bigger problems are corruption and the environment that you brought up. and in some areas, china is leading the world and the environment on clean energy with nuclear plants. they are building 50 this year, this decade versus 15 through all of the rest in their view as with the other countries, that that's the only clean energy. they are in coal, which provides most of the energy in china. they are building more, all of their new plants are cold scrubber plants which cuts down. they are building more than anyone else in the world. but mostly they are talking about it all of the time. and the new directive that came out last year, you cannot in china have a project of any kind, a building, a bridge, any kind of project without a sustainabilityability -- environmental sustainability program -- the sustainability program for the environment or you can't get approval for any

projects. they have a long way to go. but things are happening that are never reported in the west. >> as you said, you know, the laws -- the law through the system is reformed. but if one thing to have to written law and it's another thing to have that law implemented. >> implemented in the providences. and what happens in the united states if some boss is treating his people unfair but the people are -- fear to lose their jobs? you know? you are afraid to really complain about use the legal right you have because you know you might have a legal right but on the other hand, you might lose your job. that's in europe, the case. and much more in a country of that dimension. it is not easy to bring the

level of all of the maturity level of the system or the law that in slowly improving judicial system from one day to the other to the whole country. because it needs to be executed. and that's the difficult part. >> we have about 12 minutes left. and we want to get as many student questions as possible. >> okay. short questions, short answers. short answers. [laughter] >> okay. you -- you mentioned that the law systems, the system in judicial systems in china are not established. can you elaborate on how it would -- it's not a completely -- how it's not a completely fair system like the united states? >> well, you know, if you as a worker have the right to sue your boss but at the same time you know once you sue him you don't have a job and you don't

know how that all works out, you have to a student that might be too tough where as the chinese who have to learn to fight for their rights. >> this criminal law, china up until very recently, the lawyer, one of the great growth industries in china is lawyers. i'm not sure that's good news or bad. but it's a huge growth industry because of all of the new rules in the judicial system. but up until just last year, lawyers couldn't talk to the people they were defending. and they couldn't deal with it before going into the courtroom. that was changed last year.

i just changed sot -- so the lawyers become the lawyers that work with the people that are being charged for the crime. that's a huge change for china. we'll see how it plays out. but that's in place now. and how it plays out to the providences. getting down to the providences, as you suggest, sometimes takes a long time. this is as far as we can tell mature. it has a long way to go. >> short answers. >> oh, short, short. >> going back to the google question, there's been talk on the news of possible government sponsored china anchors have been infiltrated not only private u.s. companies but highly u.s. government as well. if this is true, should foreign nations and companies be wary of

future interaction and business with china? >> well, the way you form late late late -- formulate the question, but that mean china should be responsible for the chinese, most of those are operating out of taiwan. they are foreigners that go through taiwan and to the mainland and so on. this is still all got to be worked out. all of this -- in fact, sitting here in the media center, i have to say that all of the media and all of the wonderful stuff we know, it's in this long shake out period. everything with the internet and all of the over things. it's a long shake out period. we don't know what's going to happen. we will not know what's going to happen.

all right. we with talk about education in china. if the education in china improvened and if the children have more of the freedom of thinking of their own thoughts. could they come to challenge the word of china and would they improve the government or would they cause some kind of problem in china? >> what we experience is a major form of patriotism. they love their country, they compare china to the west. they glorify to the west, opposite of the west. that's when looking at china. and i think that it will work out that the young generations

with their different demands, the government will have to respond to and there is a change because the government doesn't stay the same. the people in the government are short of more, more of a different generation. and so we believe that the change is if the government continues that way. there can be a very smooth change. but the people in demand of the young people of course is totally different than the one -- the demand of their parents. >> yes, thank you for coming. and for tabling -- taking my question. my question was i want to hear on 2008 earthquake and how china responded to that and what that reveal about the failings and strength of the vertical democracy? >> yes, the 2008 earthquake,

there's several stories. 200,000 people was hidden from view. the chinese didn't let any journalist, they didn't write about the press and so forth. so time around they let journalist in, they were flooded with journalist, stories were being sorted. we got the sorry out. including the using inferior material to build school houses and all of that. the reason that we know is because the china opened it up there time. and that side of it was progress. the other side is a lot of the people have been put in prison with the connection with this inferior building and so on. it was good news and bad news. the good news was the transparency that the government was not willing to put forth in such a disaster.

>> yeah, and it was really in a way uniting for the chinese. we experienced forker many people who we know who drop whatever job they had and went there. and then they began to help the people to fix it. they were there a little after the earthquake, which was luckily not hit by the earthquake. the spirit was moving together as a nation, much more than let's hide what's happened there? >> thank you. my question is if china's current pace of environment growth is environmental sustainable and what should china do as a player in the global community to address the environmental problems it's

facing. >> i thought we dealt with that. >> go ahead. well, we answered that question earlier about question with energy and environmental pollution. we were in beijing a lot and the number of -- blue sky days were increasing. we saw that. >> there are two things. on the one hand, china doesn't want to risk to tell the country what to do in environmental country and durations and things. but on the other hand, they see a chance to become a front runner in environmental questions. they are hit by the environmental damage that is in china, much more than we are hit. so they are really working hard and --

>> yeah, what the chinese really don't like is being with lectured to about the environment and what they should do about the environment. they look at west and say, look, you screwed up. your environment in the west. you have no moral ground to lecture us about what we with should do about our environment. in the mean time, seems to us they are doing more about the environment than anybody. but the west keeping lecturing them at the same time the west is still, making it's contributions to the environmental segregation at the town planet. so what about the west? what are they doing? i mean copenhagen they did nothing. it was a joke almost. was that serious? what about the west? as china comes, the escapes

goes. >> i'm principal of the high school. >> oh. >> on behalf of our school, i wanted to thank you doris and john for being with us and taking time. [applause]

>> we're here with virginia and the american revolution. could you tell us about the revolution? >> gladly. virginia's role, as i tell my students, virginia played a crucial role in the revolution. a lot of folks that are knowledgeable of the revolution understand the role of people like washington and jefferson and such. but they -- militarily speaking, virginia's role was gigantic, huge, even though if you look for battle fields and you look for military events. expect what happens at the end. nevertheless, it served everywhere from canada all the way down to georgia on battle fields throughout the. they play a crucial role in the war. and of course in the revolution

and this is something in my research for other books, i've been kind of learning for about. the revolution wasn't just the war from 1785 to '81. virginia played an important role in the opposition to british policies that led to combat. we play add leading role, politically speaking and of course militarily speaking. my folks were trying to create a new unit. we were trying to get the right question. i was doing the question on the

color of the hunting shirts. i came across the letters and diary of a captain. there was a letter that struck me as neat. a neat quote. essentially he says we've arrived in virginia, by the way, this was the first virginia regiment to join. there was only a couple and george washington. now the virginians are arriving in force. he writes great joy and as a result great things are expected from the virginians. we expect to go through a great fatigue. that's a neat title. i storied it away from a while. i wrote a book on chilton, when

i wanted to expand the role, there was a title. >> is there any about leadership? >> i don't know if there's anything in virginia that brought out great leaders. a lot of people forget the importance that virginia plays. we were the biggest, most prosperous -- we were the largest colony of the 13 colonies. i think a lot of folks forget that, including my own students. they are almost oblivious to the fact that virginia, virginia was the bomb they used to say. were -- we were it. i guess out of sheer sighs

contributed. i'd like to say there's a special quality. i've been here 20 years and i love the state. i really couldn't account for what caused why virginia, i will say though you were right. the names that you mentioned. washington is the father of the country and jefferson's father of the declaration and later on you'll have madison and mason and important leaders in other political areas. you know, virginia did produce some great leaders, for sure. >> what does everyday virginiaian think about the british and the revolution? >> it begins. you are going to have some support, it wasn't so great here in virginia as maybe in new york and that what i focus a lot.

as you see the whole dispute develop. more and more everyday virginians buy into what their leaders are saying. their rights are threatened and they may become absolute slaves to the people and you read about virginians. we're at a disadvantage. we're always at a disadvantage as reachers. there's not a whole with lot of material of everyday virginians. that's difficult. almost every book you read about was going to be bias towards the elite or upper class, the leaders. that's enough out there still in diaries and letters that you get an idea. it shows to some degree they are on the same page as our leaders. they bought into the rhetoric,

so to speak, in my opinion at least. >> how did you choose to organize the book? >> well, i wanted this book to cover the whole revolution. it's about 20 years. i tend to be more of a military historian. the bulk of my attention is on the military aspect of the war itself. i go -- i kind of give a good over view of political events. some of the things that happened here in virginia that a loot of people aren't aware of -- a lot of people aren't aware of anymore, the 1760s, 1764 is a year was over looked by almost everybody. some really things happened here in fairfax county where i teach. so there's a lot -- it's chronological. to answer your question, i go chronologically. >> we've been speaking with mike. author of the great things are

expected for the virginians. >> thank you. >> we're here at the conference talking with bob levy who's written with a book about the supreme court called the dirty dozen. how did you get started on this project? >> my coauthor and i became convinced that the supreme court has effectively amended the constitution. it hasn't followed the amendment process that outlined in the constitution which requires congress to propose and the state to ratify the amendments. instead, the court through a series of decisions which have had implications has through the back door rewritten the constitution and made it into something that it was not intended to be. >> what would you say is the most e gauge example of this? >> we out lined 12 cases. they are all egregious. i guess it would be wicker b.

versus philburn. it held that mr. philburn who operated within one state, he grew and ate wheat, my not buying it and eating every thing he grew, 23409 buying and -- not buying and not selling meant he had an impact. transfer, the federal government could step in. that opened up the flood gates for which the regulatory for anything and everything under the rubric of the commerce clause. have there been any aspecting you didn't expect? >> been a lot of positive developments. one is the united states versus miller about second amendment,

the u.s. supreme court in june of 2008 after the book was written changed the entire jurisprudence of the second amend and held the gun ban was unconstitutional. and indeed the second amend secured the individual right to bear arms within the home for purposes even if not related to service. a second major development occurred just a couple of weeks ago. the united states supreme court in a case called citizens united versus fec has over turned two very big provisions in the mccain/feingold reform act. i can't claim the book was responsible. but i hope at least we provided some of the am ammunition. >> did you analyze the case only or talk to judges and lawyers? >> well, i have over the years talked to many judges and many lawyers. we did analyze the cases.

our original selection of the cases was in part based upon a pole that we took -- poll that we took of about 75 legal judges and lawyers asked them what were the worst supreme court since the new deal. we weren't bound, but we were at least divided by their determination. >> did you have a project that you are working on right now? >> well, i have lots of projects. they do not include another book. my projects include running the board of directors at the cato institute and serving on the institute for justice and the george mason law school and federal society. they take up time as does public speaking and writing much shorter pieces for magazines and law reviews. >> last, what are you reading? >> i'm reading the biography of

ann rand. i am an enthuse asic reader. this is one more in the series. i'm finding it very enjoyable. >> thanks very much for your time. >>