>> in their book, "a day late and a dollar short", two former bureau chiefs for the "washington post" examine the progress toward the goal of achieving a post-racial america. busboys and poets here in washington, d.c., is the host of this hour 10-minute event. >> okay. my name is terry michael. i'm director of the washington

center for politics and journalism, which is very pleased to cosponsor this event tonight. i have the honor of having brought robert pierre to washington under the politics and journalism semester program he was in the very first inaugural class in the fall of 1989. we're now in our 22nd year with about 500 alumni. and robert actually represents all of our alumni on our operating board of directors. he joins a number of others to the board of directors of the center. robert came to our program from louisiana state university. he was a junior. and he went back to school and edited the school paper and then for a while he thought about getting a masters in business administration. but "the washington post" saved him from the fate of personal wealth by recruiting him as a reporter for the "post" and now

he labors under the slave wages of journalism. what's left of journalism. thank goodness "the washington post" or there might be more problems right here in washington, d.c., with journalism. i not only am pleased to introduce robert and jon jeter here but i'm now jealous because i haven't written a book. and i'm pleased that he has done so. the only thing i ask is i get to ask the first question after they make their presentations. and by the way, with the exception of a few exceptions i will represent all white people here. i know that you're always -- what do black people think about this. you can ask me what white people think about this. thank you. [applause]

>> good evening. first of all, jon and i wrote this book -- we've known each other for about 20 years or so. we started together at the "post" in january of '93. and we didn't know each other at the time we were both going to the "post" and post -- both of us were skeptical because what kind of brothers would want to write for the "washington post"? we became friends. and we covered politics. we covered a number of things. i started off aster -- as terry said i got to write in washington of people of ron brown and i got to attend white house events and so to see what official washington looks like. and terry's goal was to sort of

have us political journalists who would not be so -- not one ideology or another but to cut through that to say, here's what the democrats say and here's what republicans say and introduce you to all of those folks at the same time. i did some political reporting. but then i gravitated away from it because not a lot of it felt real because our political leaders a lot of times -- i didn't know whether i was talking -- it almost didn't matter if i was talking to democrats and republicans because everybody was spinning. it was all about the spin and not about the real people. and out on the campaign trail, when you go out into america, what pass for real journalism was going to a diner in iowa and doing iowa caucuses as opposed to knocking on doors and that's the kind of reporting jon and i have done over the years. and that's the kind of, you know -- that's just sort of where we come from on this.

this book was sort of, you know -- a year or so ago when barack obama was elected president, there was a lot of themes, you know, hope, change and a lot of other things. one of the things they would -- but when we started talking about black people, the discussion was black people think this. and black people -- it was one black people as terry talking about as him representing black people and black people representing this. this book was meant to turn the camera lens the other way and look at the crowd and to say -- who are these folks. and what do they think. and what they came up they think a lot of different things. and so we've talked to union workers. we've talked to, you know, ex-offenders. we talked to people who are business owners who don't want the taxes cut. and so it's a lot of people who have a lot of different opinions about the world. one of the chapters -- the first chapter -- the chapter that i'll

read from, we both did personal chapters. my personal chapter was about my own family. it was about my family centered around my grandmother. daisy mae francis and our family moved off the plan nation 1975. and that's not a mistake. 1975. i was 8, 7 years old when we moved away from the plantation. and so -- so we talked about that whole -- that's meant to serve as the connection from slavery to the presidency. and i'll read a little bit from that chapter. for most of daisy mae's life free expression was not an option. on the plantation everyone understood the rules. white people talked. black people did what they were told. the plantation was named for alice calder the wife of the man who once owned the property and the black slaves who worked in the fields.

the main plantation of our big house is in 1850s greek revival structure with august columns at the rear is a sweeping lawn. steely oaks stricken with moss. we all hid from the sun under those trees. ran up those steps and rolled in that dirt oblivious that had gone on before. this is the deep south. its principal cleavage between black labor and white wealth. 1860 st. mary parish was home to 15,057 slaves more than any other parish in the state my grand mother was born there on november 22nd 1929. there are no records of her birth but she knows that to be her birthday because a family friend remembered her own daughter had been on the same date and when she was 2 mother she was given biher mother.

daisy mae ended up with a woman who died when she was 5. but papa's second wife remained a source of importance more than half century later. she was no devil daisy mae said of her stepmother. that old girl was mean. she never had any children of her own. it was something that she felt like she wanted to beat on it. papa didn't know any of that. i don't blame him he was a good old soul. papa's house was down in the quarters. the house had two rooms, a bedroom and a catch-all room where daisy mae slept on a sofa bed and the family ate its meals and socialized. mustard greens, turnips, ochre, chickens, hogs and turkeys my grandmother had. most of the time we had meat to go along. good families were norm.

my grandmother wanted to be a nurse and quit school in the eighth grade to help out on the plantation. and the mill churned nonstop october through january until it was dismantled in the 195 slavey might have been outlawed after the civil war but life on the plantation moved to the same cyclical rhythms that our ancestors had known. on the plantations long after slavery were ended plaques were treated like children. workers paid no rent or utilities. if they got sick the bill went to the plantation who took it out of their pay a little at a time. at the company store, the store clerk decided an unannounced credit limits reached. pay your store charge when challenged and they were not expected to know or care about politics. it was not until 1968 three years after the race black

citizens participated in a national election but participating for daisy mae did not necessarily mean free choice. the overseer said there's an election coming up and this is who you're supposed to vote for she told me. so fast forward it off 1975 and one of my uncles was drafted to the nfl and he got a contract and he ended up playing nine years. but two years after he was drafted he put a down payment on a house in town and this is my grandmother's reaction to moving from the farm to town. it was great she said. it was a joy. the one thing i appreciated about that was that you could have hot water. before you had to heat up your water. it was a different way of life. she was no longer isolated on her farm. she still didn't drive but now she could walk places. one of those places just across the street was an elementary the former negro school she attended as a child. she was hired as a cook.

her boss was a black woman. i never dreamed of that. so anyway i'll stop there. so that's to represent one of the sort of where we came from in this country. and so why there was euphoria about the election of a black president. and as an aside, my grandmother who i had talked about here had been battling ovarian cancer for four years. and she died last wednesday and we just buried her today actually. but she was the reason this book came about because she was -- how we sold this book was her chapter to the publishers. >> first of all, i want to thank everyone for coming out especially with the rain. last week robert and i were in new york and we had the snow.

so we can think about renaming the biblical book tire or the fire next time book tour or locusts. robert gives a glim has. -- glimpses. his grandmother was the influence of the book. it's the first chapter of the book because where we all began. it's where black america begins and america begins and it's rooted in the south, the deep south on this plantation. i mean, one of the things -- you know, when i first met robert, he's right we were suspicious for each other because we both worked for the "washington post" and we didn't trust brothers who worked for the "washington post." one of the first conversations i remember having with him telling me he was born in these slave quarters on the bayou in louisiana. i just couldn't -- i was raised in indianapolis in the midwest and i couldn't believe it. i didn't think he was lying but i couldn't conceptualized being born in slave quarters. but anyway, what you can hear

from robert's reading of that is that this book -- really to be honest it's is not reoccupied with barack obama. maybe it's bad marketing. we really wanted to tell the story of us, who are we? what does it mean to be black in the age of obama? and obama becomes sort of peripheral of who we are. and what is black and what is race? and i came upon this recently. this is just my second book but i swear every book i've written so far -- the week after its published, i read the exact perfect quote that sums up the book. and so i read this quote. it was from a european -- a black european british sociologist who said that, you know, race is really not -- it's not biological. it's really more language than anything else. i think that's exactly what we're trying to capture is the language of black america.

the language of black america in this age of obama. and if you think of it language at its most molecular form, it's identity. and identity is nothing more than the memory -- identity is memory. and that's a narrative that we've ever experienced or it's been passed down to us from people in our tribe who have experienced it. that's really some of the root of this book is who we are. and then what do we need from our leadership if we sort of identify who we are. and so that idea of identity and memory-making who we are provides a yield, a distinct -- a distinct political character. and i think that's one of the things we identify in this book, both through antidotes and also just the number. they show this very clearly. i mean, the first thing is that african-americans are the most liberal voting bloc in the

country and you can see that in poll after poll. there was a poll done out by a california group back in 2003 that showed that -- basically if you looked at city by city, the most liberal city in the country is detroit. and the most conservative city is somewhere in utah. so it's really a function of race really -- the language of race is the language of liberation. we want to be free. and so you see -- you see that in sort of the -- our political consciousness so one of the first things you see -- and we talk about this in the book is that the economic policy of black peoples came together. which means that we see that government -- we see the government plays a role in politics and in their economics. i haven't seen the poet yet but i'm sure if there was one or if there is one out there you would

see that african-americans really want the government to play a very central, very robust role in job creation. wpa, a new deal-like job creation program. but the second thing which is equally important is that we are -- we are distinctly prounion. and there's a chapter in the book where we talk about the factory in chicago that went on strike shortly after barack was elected and they went on strike -- a sitdown strike because they weren't getting their wages. and basically they were -- the plant closed, the public windows and doors, the plant closed and they weren't going to give the factory workers their wages. this is mostly latinos but also blacks. latinos blacks were together and did a basically 1930s sitdown strike and demanded their ranges. -- wages. and it was on television and obama to his credit played a role in urging them on coming on

television saying he supported the striker. one of the things that was one of the joys in reporting this book is that one of the things i discovered is that one of the earliest forms of the union organizing, labor organizing were black women on the plantation and slave plantations and they -- they would organize a sitdown strike or they would stop work in order to get a sunday off or to go be able to visit their relative on another plantation. and this is one of the earliest forms of union activity. and to this day, of course, if you talk to these union avoidance lawyers they will tell you the person they fear the most -- the people they fear among the most plaque women because black women are most likely to join a union. and so this is -- it's always the women. i mean, this is true with every -- with every demographic. but especially with us. it's always the women. so the other thing we identify

is that we're very promilitary but we're antiwar. and you can see this going back since world war ii. every war, african-americans had been steadfastly against even though we support the military as a means of sort of rising up and sort of social mobility. the first iraq war was one exception. we initially kind of supported it. there was some propaganda around that and then we turned against it. so understanding who we are is really the basis for what friends called national consciousness or steven called black consciousness. and this is not to be confused with nationalism. nationalism is fundamentally a chauvinistic sort of view of your community. using sort of national -- nationalistic for the barometer the same way with you use race

or gender or tribe. but consciousness is a very different thing. it is sort of an understanding of where you're trying to get to. and it's sort of the opposite of reactionary thought. what fred hampton talked about as being, you know, reactionary sort of fighting fire with fire. well, you don't fire with fire. you fight fire with water. you fight racism with solidarity. you fight a capitalistic system that uses people as tools. you fight that with a capitalistic system that uses -- that uses -- that sort of turns that equation upside down and use the economy as an instrument of the people. so i failed to talk a little bit about who -- sort of who we are,

where we're going and to raise the question of whether or not barack obama is this transformative leadership that we need or is it more reactionary and transactional? and robert read the first chapter about his grandmother. i'm going to read from the last chapter which is about a young man named lee alexander, a south african, a young south african, 28. and he married a young african-american woman from chicago. this chapter begins basically when barack obama is about to accept the nomination for president at the 2008 convention in denver. and there's a group of people, about 10 people, mostly black but not all. some blacks and white, a few arab. and were watching television as barack obama takes the stage.

and this young man, lee, is watching. and he is -- everyone else is sort of celebrating. they erupt into celebration. and lee is not celebratory. he's sort of looking pensively with his head on his hands on his knees. almost like he's worried. and i describe this later on in the conversation about this sort of moment and why he was looking so pensively at the event everybody was watching. i'll read from -- i'll start fraegd here. -- reading from here. materially very little has changed for his black countrymen since they vanished white minority rule in the first election. unemployment is higher than ever. economic disparities have grown. the crime rate has soared.

schools are crumbling and the farm land, the country's most valuable resource remains almost wholly owned by whites. just as it was during the days of apartheid. walk into any nice restaurant in cape town and see who sits and who serves. who drives their mercedes to work and who rise the baki. microbuses that swarm the area like angry buzzing bees. who owns the houses and who cleans it? mandela has come and gone from the main stage and voters are preparing to elect their third black president in just a few months. this is 2008 again. but the defining truth of this native land now as always is that the darker your skin, the poorer you are. what good does it do a prisoner if your jailer looks like you but does not set you free. black south africans turned to one of their own to govern but wasted the opportunity to transform the values imposed on their country by outsiders.

and lee can hardly bear the thought of obama repeating the mistake in his adopted country. in south africa's case, lee believes the mistake was in looking to the west generally and to washington, d.c., specifically to solve the problems of the african people. and as was the case with the apartheid, there's nothing in american fetishism for democracyism and for the people of color. what is it that the cubans say. each day in the world, 200 million children sleep in the streets. not one of them is in cuba. can america say that? while lee is watching obama takes a huge step closer to the presidency. and an african proverb comes to mind. one that has black countrymen often try to outdescribe their dilemma in the post-apartheid era. got a stone but didn't get a nut to crack got a nut but no stone to crack it with. south africa i-black majority

government built new homes for the people but left them without money to pate rent. provided them with running water but shut off the tap when they couldn't pay the bill. replaced the names of white segregationists on the public schoolhouses with those of black liberation heroes but didn't replace the shoddy roofs. what are companies to hire plaques but permitted them to slash their wages. and so it goes for the new south africa, where a small white minority continues to inhabit a splendid country, a splendid country that is for all intents and purposes canada. while three-quarters of the population resides in a country with living conditions similar to those of kenya or zambia. it's almost as though black south africans vanished in apartheid only apply to a fresh coat of paint on a architecture. the culture of oppression remains intact. i like obama but i'm just in the

into him lee said later. yes, he is black. but i believe he has a white mentality because he was raised in a household with a grand me spewing all that ronald reagan. no slaves in that country ever landed ashore in that country. jim crow laws were not very different from apartheid's tricksters. the catechism of the assassinated malcolm x was the model preached by the assassinated icon steve beko. mandela and king found inspiration of gandhi and others. america's potent antiapartheid movement was larger set in motion by black americans like randall robinson and south africa's and those of french and black extraction are the

spitting archetypical image of america's white southerners. both groups have invented folk-loric sales -- tails. and having religion and technology to welcoming savages. south africans translates it as rednecks. there's a popular story told in south africa perhaps apocryphal. it goes like this. a white south african traveled to the united states in the mid-'80s and landed at o'hare international airport in chicago. at customs a white american immigration officer thumbed silently through the south african's passport for a minute or two prompting the white south african traveller to ask the beefy middle-aged officer if there was a problem. so you're from south africa the officer asked without looking up. yes, i am the traveller answered. expecting the worst. the immigration officer stamped his passport. lifted his head to look to the

south african in the eye. smiled and returned it to him. we like the way y'all handle your niggers over there and waved him through. consider this, in 1961 the year that obama was born and mandela formed the armed wing of the african congress black americans earned on average 54 cents for every dollar earned by white americans. and 100% of all south africans living in poverty were black. 47 years later 99% of all poor south africans are black. and african-americans earnings have inched up 57 cents on every dollar earned by white americans. these are not political structures. political and economic structures that are designed for black people to get ahead. lee says later in describing his private thoughts. while the room around him celebrated obama's acceptance address.

at roughly that moment -- at roughly that moment in his thoughts, his friend who parents hailed from haiti surfaces from his dance grinning broadlily. yes, brother lee answers. we're about to this this he shouts. pounding his twice for emphasis. shock the world, baby, south african style. yes, lee, says calmly removing his eye glasses to wipe them from a handkerchief. that's exactly what i'm afraid of. so anyway, i'll open it up to questions here but i hope you get sort of a feel for what we were trying to sort of expound upon and elaborate upon what is our black political identity and sort of who we are in this age of post-racial america.

>> well, jon, just use the word. he has a very interesting presentation. [inaudible] >> and we assume identity policy on that. what will be the argument and give the people a new word and they think they have a new idea. i don't think that idea. i think it becomes a slogan and a -- [inaudible] >> they'll look at all the progress in the last half century since we ended institutional races, people say no. and post-racial look at all the present things. so instead of that argument, i'll give you something that got us in trouble for don't argue about that word. argue about -- take a look at

how much race still place and the economic advancement of middle class african-americans. and contrast with how much individual behavior, white or black, ultimate behaviors play in the economic development which you folks -- i think robert has that. is it the better debate to have? ..

a black man was elected president of the united states a year ago, and the next morning and a lot communities, including my own, the paper, the headline in the newspaper, that decimate all the news in that area said the we see in and favors making. that was the headline. that was the headline. it didn't say obama was president. it said obama to receive intelligence briefing. never said he was the 44th president of the united states. so to say it is justified individual, you know, what happens to individuals. it's just not true to what

exists in today's society. has there been progress? everyone we talked to, we'll talk about the progress that has been made, but postracial has become, we would argue, i think a political term that i think we're not that far apart on that, a political term that doesn't mean anything. isn't meant to sort of squelch discussion as opposed to really open up a debate. >> yeah, i just want to add one thing, that's one of the things we want to tackle in the book which was sort of complicated class. industry difficult part, the to, but one thing you see over and over again, this gives voice to ordinary uncelebrated african-americans, or people who are black or identify with black who speak the same language as us, that we profile as from scotland originally who married

a caribbean man and had two daughters, but i joke, she is the blackest person in the book in some ways. one thing we want to identify and talk about is sort of how every successful social movement in this country's history, black people have played a central role. that's not meant to assert any kind of premises or superiority. it's just true, the abolitionist movie, whether it's the civil rights movement, you know, reconstruction which is trying to build an egalitarian society. not just black people but poor white people who also fought the war vet but we're trying to, typically when blacks have been sort of have assumed leadership roles, the rest of the country has followed. and one way, shape, or form. so that's what we will did is give voice to people whose voices are increasingly sort of marginalized but who are very central to any kind of progress

in this country in terms of social. >> my name is nathan. i don't as much as a question as a statement to get your reaction to that statement. and when i want to focus on is the impact of the obama presidency. and i believe that one of the reasons why some of those gains is because of the lack of sophistication of african-americans as a collective organized unity. so for example, barack obama is one of the first united states president who lacks a pace.

two of the main groups who were responsible reluctant african-americans and young people. and both of these groups have on them have not traditionally been in the power structure of america. therefore, we are not used to holding elected leaders accountable or as good as you would say conservative evangelical movement. i think this impacts obama's ability to impact these groups in the sense that because he doesn't, because he doesn't have his base, a solid ideological construct to inform his decision-making. because obviously, it doesn't align with african-americans political community to tell by the congressional black caucus is lack of ability to sway his agenda. so i just went to get your reaction to that that obama doesn't have a base, and it may be our fault as not being able

to hold our elected leaders accountable to. >> the argument you make is the one argument that while bomb is not doing to some of his constituents want because those constituents aren't making him do it. so you could argue, that would go to your main theory, first point. but i would take exception with the fact that african-americans are one of the main people who elected him because democrats have always gotten 97 percent of the black vote, so while obama might've gotten, i forget what the number is but he could have got more but we're still 13 percent of the population. black folks didn't put him in office. but anyway, you want to say something? [inaudible] >> that's a great question, actually the question in some way that spawned this book because robert and i have been arguing, even though in some

ways we agree on what we want to go, we've been arguing for two years about barack obama as well as other things. but here's what i have to say about that. it's a great question. two things. one is that barack obama does have a base. the problem is that that base, and this is not unique to barack obama. it was true with bill clinton, is that the establishment for lack of a better term, conservatives, that even to be on some of the blue dog democrats, the white democrats in southern states mostly who are more conservative, don't accept as legitimate his base, which is black people, people of color, women. they don't accept that basis legibly. that is part of it is problem. it is. and so you know, if you like us of how george bush responded once he was elected president, the first time, even though he did not win that election he had a mandate because he was in

office. that's a mandate, right? so that brings us to the second one, which is part of the problem is he's not recognized as having a legitimate base. is not recognized as a legitimate president by whites of the country. i can't say what it is half or not but a very substantial swath of the country. the other problem is, i think -- this is -- i don't have the answer to this, but i agree that black people have to do more to make demands on black politicians, and all politicians, as well as -- and actually working class people need to make more demands on politicians. i'm not sure it's going to work. this is why. if you look at sort of the antiwar demonstrations, when they put people in the streets. you look at the immigrants, the immigrant movement that put millions of people in the streets of chicago. in los angeles, around the country, nothing changed.

i'm not convinced that we are at a point where this is a failed state. is unable or unwilling to respond to the will of most of the people. if you look at health reform. most people want single-payer, some kind of government style healthcare reform. canadian style, european-style. they don't get it. they don't want us to be in this war. we are at war. not only are we at work we expand the were under barack. so it's to, one is that there is this sort of, this illegitimate base that barack is seen by very powerful people in the other is that i'm not sure that barack is heading at this point of the failed state. not innocent, but you know it's not like he's the first either. there's a history of i think, i think you'd easily go back to clinton at least of this being a failed state. unresponsive to the people. >> the failed state is jon's

work. some people talk about it as a failsafe the people talk about the unresponsiveness of government and not in that larger sort of context, but there's a lot of different voices all i would say about someone argue that you just, that there's not enough pressure on the. i don't think that is so easily dismissed. >> good evening. brother judah, you said that. [inaudible] >> i was hit by the most part, the issue of same-sex marriage on the ballot, and also i just have two quick questions. first of all, have you heard from terry m l1)cl0 millan? and secondly, racial nomenclature as it impacts the

citizens your quick comes to this, you will have a block that says black african-american, or negro, and a number of african-americans, excuse me, young african-americans are really protesting and nato is actually appearing on november 2010 census. but supposedly the black population in so-called negro. what do you feel about that? >> i first want to respond because this is the first question you had about our african-americans use towards the gay community and gay rights. and this is actually the one, given, if we had more time, one chapter the book i want to write was about african-americans attitude towards the gay community. and they somewhat happened in los angeles, california, during

the election. and i don't know to remember this because there was is scapegoating. these exit poll said that african-americans are against gay marriage. and we work. we were. the majority of african-americans who voted were against gay merits. not nearly as much though as the team knows, as wives, as mormons, as catholics. why do you scapegoat -- why would people scapegoat us then? this is really sort of a very well been issued to the book which is like this sort of cynicism, and the african-american community, this sort of inability to sort of recognize us for what return are. there's a tremendous amount of homophobia in the african-american community. it just so happens not so nearly as much as other committees. so why are we always single out? it's complicated. i don't want to make it seem as a we are perfect. we are not by any stretch of imagination and we need to do with his idea of homophobia. but it is a lot more new ones i

think you will see in the mainstream press. on the issue of -- i've never spoken to her. i don't expect a call from her. and the last question, i'm aware of sort of this phrasing, the language for the census. i'm kind of agnostic. i just think that especially now we really are seeing -- euro, if you look at the real unemployed right now everyone, not just blacks, the real unemployment rate, the wave we would measure in 1980, it is 22%. so in detroit, cities like that, detroit, oakland, you are seeing an unemployment rate which is the same you see is johannesburg south africa. so it's almost like a distraction. it's not that big of a deal i think personally. my personal opinion but i think there's so much more for us to be sort concerned about. really, i think the irony of

this book and barack obama is at the time we point this black president, black people, african-americans are really more isolated from the mainstream from our neighbors, at any point in the history of america. if you think sort of there is this jim crow is gone, which always kept a lid on how far we go. and now i have this incredible distance between wealthy african-americans and everybody else, which is true of the entire country. and that is such, that's unsustainable. that is how empires, how communities, how people collapse. and so i'm just kind of agnostic on the whole census issue. >> after we take the next question why do we empower women? [laughter] >> i live in the district. i know the deep south.

i'm looking forward to diving into it. you say in the book that there was a wide variety of opinions for people of african-american community. would you consider that a demonstration of the fact that the notion of leadership of one charismatic person will rise up to the promise land, that that will kind of -- well, the failure of president obama can move any significant agenda that can move black people to use that that he will be able to do what he thought he would do. the fact that he can't move things, would you suggest that came or not, ask, that is antiquated because he is the in the most powerful position on the planet and yet part of his ability to move his agenda at all has to be cannot be

considered as a black leader? and the other side is sometimes we should be careful what we asked for because we did it. because in terms of president obama becoming the first black president, he is now the icon for our national following. like he has risen from the place that maybe black people, they have risen some place that many black people start. and we know his pedigree that nothing is farther from the truth. so his leadership is dead, number two, our shining president has become an indictment against us. >> the country when we start talking about how the media, i mean, it's hard -- it's easy to do that though. it's hard in the media environment in which we have,

that's what ends up, i don't want to say cells necessarily, but that's how you end up -- our community is different than it was when martin luther king was there. there were a lot of different voices, and i guess what i want to -- let me step back a bit. when we talk about barack, that unity is and what he's not been able to get accomplished. i lot of things that people ascribe to them as he hasn't able to get accomplished, we have to back up and say what did he say he was going to do. for instance, we talk about afghanistan, he did exactly as it is going to do and people say we should be out of the war. i he said on the campaign to i'm going to increase the troops in afghanistan. so that's not something you can knock him off because he said he was going to do that. i number of other issues that are similar, and so i think that you have to -- that's one issue. the second part is, i'm not sure, i think going back to the

question earlier, there were certain segment of the community who may be some who have not, but not purchase that, young people and people who otherwise feel they're left out of sort of the mainstream who thought that you could get things done right now. but most of the people that we talked to understood clearly that that sort improvements is a process. like for instance, the couple that we talk about prince george's county. they wanted one thing. for largely one thing. they are small business owners. they say don't tax -- don't get rid of bush's tax for people over $250,000. they're not looking for some pie in the sky thing from barack. that's a very specific thing. and do for me what you did for the big corporations. now, that's one level. angela in the chapter we're talking about, the white woman with the two miss raise

daughters. she wanted something done about healthcare. very specific that she said i want you to focus on the bottom and healthcare. and her basic thing was the disappointment and barack for them is not that he hasn't achieved all of those things, but that they don't fell like he is the iraq on their behalf yet. it's like on want you to do is throw back at the structure that jon is talking about that says all of these corporations they get whatever it is that they want to, but i want someone, i want to feel like you recognize the problems that i'm having, and will try to at least impact of that. >> i just want to say one thing. i think the idea of a messianic figure in our politics is so strong and goes back robert and i both are privileged enough to live in south africa for his short time. the idea of the messiahs. we got to be honest. that's something that africans

and african-americans, that we've always believed in. but i have to say i'm not sure it's ever existed in this country, and to some extent, the failure of a messianic figure and barack obama or even the last 30 years in some ways i think emblematic of just sort of pulverizing the class divisions that have erupted really in the last 40 years in our community. so when you have people who are more and more distance from working-class people, and the concerns of working class people, i don't want to get to esoteric about this, but these theory about factory workers in chicago. and these are essentially, when they decided they would strike when they're arguing about should they strike, should they have to sit down strike, there was basically the discussion came down to whether or not mexicans, most of them who just

came over the last 10 years, many of them didn't have their papers to be honest, would they be deported. and with that blacks, many of whom had previous arrest, would they be arrested? and in the end they just said screw it. if we are deporting we're deported if we are arrested were arrested. whatever. and i think so much of when you look at, you know, teen of courses from a middle-class family in atlanta. but you look at the rest of that movement. so many are from working-class family. the people are empowered king were from working-class environment. i think that's what's missing. so the messiah was always in some ways if you look at king or who malcom was, definitely working-class family. fred hampton who might be huge fan of. very much working-class families and even if you look at all over the world, you look at the power of the impact of unions and radicalizing people and making them sort of wanted to

understand what their rights are, what their rights should be. and that's what's missing i think is this. because what you're talking to his isolation of people and that's something i think is the most danger for our community is to have is that we are isolated from one another, rich from poor. and that's true for the entire country, but that to me as sort of where the messiah figure comes up short. we can't produce that anymore. >> any women who want to ask a question? >> thank you for sharing your thoughts tonight. in the last question you touched on this issue, and that is when barack obama came to be committed to seeing as if he said anything specifically. [inaudible] >> other groups he he sort of had specific things. and so it seems like he said, he

starts talking about his a little bit. i'm not so sure that when we talk about black people and language at all this, that we really want. and talk about this, he said there's his couple in prince george's county, they don't want their taxes cut. so my question is to the extent, can't really have discussion -- [inaudible] >> yeah, but that goes back to the question of who is we. and i think that we is not -- it just isn't a monolith because he sort of talk across those things are some folks whose issue is

not, their kids are graduating. their kids are grudging at a high level. if you've got money your kids are doing fine. and so those black people -- that's not their main issue. i'm good with that. this is what i need. and so i don't know, i mean, i think there is, you know, anyway, i just think that the question you to go back to who is we again and and isn't that just black -- because when you start talking about the community used to have to live in a simplistic would like to live in the same place anymore. there's a lot of things that have changed. and that have effects or of having one voice. >> i feel a little bit different than robert on this. surprised. [inaudible] >> and i think this gets back to the unresponsiveness of the government, and i think that's complicated, but i think we're very clear on some issues. not just african-americans, but

the country as a whole. it comes to healthcare, we are very clear. poll after poll shows we was some sort of government financed healthcare. why we getting that? we clearly want us to be out of iraq and afghanistan. we have escalated those wars. escalate at least afghanistan. and i think this gets to what -- i know this is heretical among black people, but i think some ways it has raised the question of people talk about how sport barack obama is that i have never met him. i have no idea, but you know, the first thing he did in the whole healthcare debate was to take single payer healthcare off the table. what good does that do him? the employee free choice act or instance which we talked about in the chapter about the labor unions. this is something that really was originally authored, was probably the most progressive people of legislation in 50 years. and what it could have done to

strengthen labor unions and strengthen the democratic base. most people want to join labor unions. poll after poll show people want to join labor unions. to quality not he not passed a piece of legislation which would not just reagan workers and their abilities or to make a living and raise their family and contribute to the economy, which is what's wrong with the economy, but it would also contribute your main base. and so this is my question, which is, you know, who is he listening to and why? and i think part of that is our fault. i think we are not articulating -- we're not making the demand in the way that he feels it. but you know, given that distance between our political class and average celebrated americans is just, it's a fast and hard, almost insurmountable it seems.

>> first of all, congratulations on the book. apprise you guys, i do question 11 particular thing. you call it a failed state that i have a complete opposite view. [inaudible] >> about race and impact on politics. more diverse society, nations like sweden. [inaudible]

>> what i saw as a "washington post" reporter traveling, the conclusion i came to is the vast majority country doesn't think like that. and their influence on politics and democracy leads democracy to do exactly what they want to do. so i don't think it is a failed state. i think the polls are looking at in talking about are asking people a basic question. you want to see a single-payer health system. and most people see as. all of these people, that's not happening.

[inaudible] i think to the extent democracy works the way it works, we've had a change in mentality in the majority population but they don't think like that. and i'm history is, the reason why opposition of barack obama is so very good is because they see an embodiment what his accomplish which no one has before which is to get that disenfranchise, or he can get anything done economy because he's listening to a few people. >> you asked a specific, so i want to respond to the. i see what you're saying and i

agree with you. it's no quinces and that if you look at a country like one of the pieces i've been writing about recently is sort of how chile in 1990 was faced with almost this exact same sort of economic environment where they had these years, the cycles of boom and bust, where there is economy was towards speculation and not production. and they switched course like that. and it's not perfect but it created basically almost, and a shave wrote of this country and it was the most productive economy in latin america for the last 20 years. and it's not because it is of course that country is why. it is overwhelmingly white. i agree with you. . .

because everywhere you haven't you have a viable robust unions and so i thank you are right. it is a huge component but it's more than that, i think it is the corruption of the upper-middle-class and also the isolation of our political class and then i lost sight guess i'm saying i'm agreeing to with you to some extent. >> [inaudible]

>> i agree a lot with and what you said, but i think one of the big issues in i grew up in the caribbean and in europe. so there -- [inaudible]

[inaudible] there was a great sense of not african-americans, but even from a purely symbolic sense in i think his connections need to be seen in the political class. u.s. grain of the important

issues of the time they're in. c-span: [inaudible] [inaudible] [inaudible]

[inaudible] >> black america is now going to throw barack obama just because they understand their own experience in a look at the polls even today and were their skepticism black america is not for to throw him away because they've been in this country to law and they understand, they understand that someone of what is thrown at him is not legitimate. i saying as a good thing and may not be their best interest to do but none of the polls so far suggests that black america is going to just distance themselves in any way away from barack obama at this point. >> but i agree with robert, i don't think you're ever going to see the black support for barack obama dip below 80 percent, but i do think this -- i don't think if things continue the way they're going and they are going to, i don't think they will turn out for him in the next election and you know, the presidential elections are not that

complicated. there are a few states. at the indiana and of the vote was a day he wouldn't win in indiana. he won't win ohio, he won't win pennsylvania. if you tell me that some laid-off autoworkers will supplement benefits expired six months ago is going to go and vote for barack obama because he seemed always open change, i don't believe it's, i do not believe so i wrote a piece saying that i believe that right now if i have to bet money sarah palin would be the next president because if you look at the history of this country and every time there's been any kind of a even when there is this sort of recognition and the sort of a conception -- idea from the white right wing voters whether some kind of an egalitarian and post ratio or pan ratio democracy happening in public schools and reconstruction, the civil rights and black power movements when ronald reagan

came to office, there's this backlash that happens and it's based on two things: one is this white right wing a year, not all white people of course, but this right wing white vinegar and the fact that black people won't come out to come to the polls. there is no change, is now irrelevant and doesn't matter if is george bush or if it is barack obama, they won't come out so i do think that's what we're looking at. >> [inaudible] >> congratulations on your book. i will keep this very short. [inaudible] i have never seen a social change in this country, only by the ballot box, the social change has always been

real change and historical change by the public movements, positive movement. and i think in some ways i would say that the election of barack obama was an expression of that and my criticism of barack obama is not as he is a real year because it's only been a year, but the movement that elected him has in some ways been abandoned, and that is my critique of that movement that elected him that his campaign has abandoned the popular movement and i hope that they in terms of african-americans he spoke very eloquently about the abandon democracy in this country. i think it is rooted in our

historical and social economic position being completely on the outside to push our way in and in some ways in front of it. my point is that i trust the winner of the african-american movements, i'm curious to see whether it is at this point. >> i will be quick. i agree, i don't think they made a mistake and they chose the best possible candidate. but i think and you will understand because we both understand chicago, if you look at how harold washington was elected from the 20 or 30 years ago, almost, if you look at the we talk about flipping the book and republican windows and doors, if movement led by workers that said we need change it and identify the candidates that said the and made it happen. so what happened there? he didn't change the world, he didn't fix everything that

happened in the one term in few days that he had, but he was responsive to the people who elected him. who does barack obama have to be responsive to? that's the whole point that i was trying to make with the what i considered in the book was that we been so isolated and there's no hope really for right now. there's no social movement to make him respond to. and so i agree, it's not barack obama fault, in some ways what does he owe a labor union with only represents 12% of the workforce? nothing. >> this gentleman is the last one. [inaudible] >> [inaudible] >> she read the book and it was somewhere she said you didn't put that in there, did you? [laughter] but it's interesting, she did read the book and for a

political hot over the time, my grandmother, first of all, when she was coming up didn't have time to think about all this. she said when i was reading -- what i was raising 13 kids i didn't have to look at tv and they didn't have to be initially but her thoughts after election were interesting because she was always afraid initially that he would be killed like a lot of people that something would happen but secondly she didn't have a loss of expectations because she was unsure what he would -- that's where i talk about what he would be able to do. for her it was largely symbolic thing that this guy would be elected president and particularly six or seven months into his term because she did and see an entire year, she was like obama, obama, on tv all the time so it was kind of in some ways like every other politician. that's totally different from my

mother, her daughter, who was her primary care giver who was sort of a big supporter and they use to fight about what is wrong with you. why are you asking these questions about the man but my grandmother had a much more -- because she lived lager and had -- and didn't have as much believe that the political structure wasn't going to change as much with just the election of this one man. >> thank you all for coming in an excellent presentation. let's give them a hand. [applause] >> jon jeter was the conservative political action conference bureau chief in south africa from 1999 to 2003 and in south america from 2003 to 2004. robert pierre was a reporter and editor of "the washington post" and former chicago bureau chief. to find out more visit washington post.com.

>> he's best known for his novels and will firm in 1984 and this weekend we're here at this year's cpac conference talking with matt spalding, the author of "we hold theswe truths". can you tell me what was the most enjoyable part of writing this book? >> the best thing i liked was i love history in this book largely tell stories about how the american founders bought their own experience but before, during and immediately after the american revolution and thought in a way that presented these principles, for principles they put into the documents of the american founding. equality, can sense, natural rights, religious liberty, property, rule of law, constitutionalism. how did they come up with these ideas and what did it mean for

them as a practical matter for try to revolutions and putting that in a story for intel how this came together as opposed to abstract discussion or legalistic discussion, the narrative american constitutionalism and it's a great story. >> what is it that's been rediscovered you say in the title rediscovering our principles? >> i think the point is many of the ideas of american history we kind of snow in the back of our minds we forgot some things about it's but what they mean by rediscover is to rediscover how these principles, these ideas, these concepts are actually the core of what we are as a nation and how it defines us and it's not merely historical stuff. it is not merely about guys in wigs and 3-quart of hats and that's very nice, but these are actually the live questions of what america means today and as much of american history on the left and right and in between is really a long debate an ongoing debate about what does this mean

today and the american founders are very cognizant of that as well and they made certain claims about that sort of discussions today and our choice is deciding where we are going and where we're headed right now with a lot of discussion about the future one. my way of setting it up is it lists the choice about different notions of what these principles mean today. and so i spent time talking about what the founders bought and then progressivism and modern liberalism how france the same principles and what we might understand about how this discussion is played out in american politics and the 20th-century. >> what inspired you to take this on? >> the practical answer is that there wasn't really want book that did this. there are a lot of wonderful book such talk about the particular concepts and academic and historical point of view and batteries but there wasn't one book and i work in public policy of the heritage foundation that talks to members of congress and

other public figures, i travel a lot and there was no one book i could point people to that laid out the story in this form that did it and i finally was convinced to write it myself. >> would you say that it's sort of like a manifesto or is it to different from that? >> it differs when you think about a manifesto you think of something that starts today, here what we stand for today and what we will do, this is a different book. i said to do to peg the founders principles and the declaration and constitution as from their perspective to understand what they understood and take that as our perspective and then step back and look at the debate today in light of that. from that and you get a good sense of where we are relative to those principles which they thought were so evident and permanent. >> does the book contain any criticism of the principals themselves or the formulation of

the constitution? >> it raises very important questions which were lost, the most important, the most serious is the question of human slavery as a violation of the principle of equality so i to address those things. my idea is to address these very clearly, warts and all. but to honestly think how they thought through what are very difficult problems and they understood them as the local problems and when you think through that from the point of view of the problems what they accomplished in light of that, you really learn how these principles operate as a practical matter and adds is rediscovering. not that these are easy and not that they apply directly, it is hard, but it makes you think about what these principles which have to do with the key questions of and what are we relative to each other and the role of government, what does it mean to have religious liberty and what is a written constitution for -- these other questions we face today and

seeing it through these generations which thought the river hard and very deeply and about them and put them into these documents is a great opportunity to think about them and knew a lot of our own circumstances. >> who are some of the other authors adhere to is? >> heritage covers almost every public policy question you can imagine so we have offers that do most public policy questions ranging from domestic policy and health care and national security policy. in terms of this kind of work, with probably the only person there which is great for me and i love to be in the middle of that policy but what we found is the policy work we do at the foundation which our current debates about what we should too bad policy x, y and z, they need to be undergirded if you will buy a pasco -- practical historical understanding. you need to know that history of entitlements or as a social security which grows out of the new deal, the history of that.

if you want to know what to do about whether you like it or not the history undergirds it is so important to the. public debate. >> the you have another project of going on right now? >> that's a good question. i have several i would like to read about. i love history and by earlier book was on george washington statesmanship. i'd love to get back to that. they're so much right now in a lot of things coming out of this book. right now we're finishing up a study guide to go with "we hold theswe truths". daggata laffer summit to take the book almost as a discussion and a reading group and a study guide to help work through books you can run you're own group to talk about and debate among yourselves and use it as a popular textbook as you will for rediscovering the principles. >> what did you read to prepare for writing this book or in the process of writing this book? >> i read a lot of history. right on track brown as an

academic, ph.d. is an american political thought, so i studied history, the constitutional convention, the federalist papers and all these things for some time and i love all that and at a certain point history changes from being mere facts which is mostly what they teach in school to being a story in uc the narrative. it takes a lot of study to do that and others have done that and that's the nature of learning history mr. atoll suit. so the book really is based on a lot of background and going through all those stains and putting together this narrative of their own minds about these principles so it's not that there is new discoveries of new hidden documents somewhere in your research as much as it is, once you know all those documents and new studies have and see how they fit together why this meant that and how they're all connected and what it meant, it gives a great perspective about seeing what does this mean today in current

debates so the historical grounding. >> thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. >> here's a look as some upcoming book pearson festivals'. c-span:

we're at the cpac conference talking with mark halperin, one of the authors of "game change". can you tell us to to get the reaction you thought you'd get? >> every author writes a book hopes it has some success, but

john and i were proud and pleased that we wrote the santa book was set of drivers conversation about it's so it's nice to execute a plan and i was saying we've had more success than we help to force iraq any saying an expected to come from the reaction? >> one of the things we did hope for we didn't know if we would achieve is the book has been well received by both the left and right, most political books today being sold at cpac are books that inspire you to the far left or far right and what are hopeless to read in on person book that told the star of the 2008 presidential campaign as a story with great characters in great part but from a gradual journalistic point of view and as we come to meetings like this and as we've done talk-radio around the country left-wing and right-wing and cable-tv we have pleasantly been surprised by the lack of people are doing as a partisan weapon to be used by one side or

the other but as a great story that we hope we told well enough to live up to the material. >> did any of the substance in the book contacting you after it was published? >> we are making a practice, not to be specific about the reaction in best i can say without exception of the contacts we have from people we write about in the book has been positive. people may not like every little thing in the book but they been pleased with the overall portrait and have been very nice about the book overall. >> do you know what your next project is yet? >> maybe. >> right now. >> the goal we have is to sell the book as wide as audience and from the beginning although it is about a little help campaign this is not a book about politics or politicians so much as about interesting people who just happen to be involved in politics but is a story about couples involved in a great competition under pressure so our hope now is that the then at

about the next project extend people to extend the book to people who don't necessarily think that want to read a book about politics rather a book about a great story. >> are you able to read any books while on the road? >> you know, someone smart told me not to live go that you basically have a choice of life these days, you can read stuff on the web, newspapers and magazines or you can read books and i tend to be someone who reads a lot of newspapers and magazines so right now my book reading is not at its peak. >> thank you very much for your time. >> he's best known for his novels recently author seth jones mark moyar discussed the recent books of u.s. military strategy in

afghanistan. the program is an hour. >> tonight on booktv in prime-time discussion and call-in program on the war in afghanistan. joining us are to afghanistan war authors, mark moyar in seth jones. mr. jones' book is in the graveyard of empires: america's war in afghanistan. mark moyar, his book, the question of command: counterinsurgency from the so were. seth jones, before gets started you told me you just returned from afghanistan. what are your impressions? >> my impression is actually having changed since i got back because we obviously had the capture of the taliban second-in-command this weekend, what i will say though is as we move into the late winter and early spring there will be nato offensives in helmand province where we see u.s. marine corps

forces in the central holland river valley as well as over the past week the offensive by pakistan intelligence agencies and u.s. intelligence agencies against the senior taliban officials in pakistan. we are really now seeing in offensive on both sides of the border. >> mark moyar, has our mission in afghanistan changed since president obama came to office and how would you define our mission? >> i think the fundamental mission of trying to provide a stable and secure afghanistan is largely remain in how we do that has changed with a large infusion of troops casino lot of activity this year already in the campaign most prominent example and i think we're making progress. the most important thing though is looking at long-term afghan developments and when i was there last month as well as looking at was how do you develop in afghanistan that becomes more self-sufficient and we all love that's important but the question is how you go about doing that.

>> in, in fact, in a recent foreign-policy magazine article this is what you wrote: in developing the afghan national security forces the u.s. and afghan governments must combine it short-term fixes with long-term deployment. >> situation like this you need to develop leaders. leadership is the key i argue and you can develop a leader in a year or two years for the critical of the levels of command and in the past to try to speed that up to our detriment. i think we've now just in recent months we figure that out and we are moving towards a better long-term developments and at the same time during the short term fix is in terms of trying to get the afghans to replace some of the bad commandersho are already there. >> mr. jones, in the graveyard of empires page 317 it this is what you wrote:

>> well, corruption and if you look at world bank and transparency international data, they rank afghanistan at the bottom of countries worldwide as the one of the things i think we have found is when you look back at afghanistan's previous periods and so for example, years of -- there were fairly legitimate governments over the course of the '30's, 40's, 50's, '60's and 70's. what we face now is some crisis of legitimacy with the central government and in order over the long run to establish stability and security there has to be sama legitimacy of the central