that's being implemented now in afghanistan. when i was last there, rather in december they were just trying to implement programs to get the detainees other lessons, other skills, other options when they were in custody. d things like that in afghanistan. the detainees were given opportunity to make trinkets for their families, their wives, even sometimes the cards when they develop a report. it is interesting -- even the guards when they develop a rapport. the detainees in bagram who have historically been the most violent against the guards, the ones that have been most committed, those that will never change their minds a, when they

have been given this opportunity of rehabilitation, suddenly, there is more report with the guards, less violent activity within their cells -- there is more environment so now you see a side benefit of these programs. first to have the program's goal of do not cause an individual. the bigger strategic goal of how it paints a picture of detention and is a counter radicalizing tool, but you also have the side benefit of making detention efforts a safer, juneau, safer for the guards and the detainees because now their behavior is improved. so it does play into different elements and depending where and how it's implemented but it is an interesting concept to export. >> do you want to comment? >> in saudi arabia they have unlimited resources, so if they want to throw money at it whether it works or not, they are basically -- they can't really waste money.

which by the way i should say if that's not mockery i think they are making very good points but it struck me as just look, you have so much money you can give them cars, apartments, you may as well give them art as well. >> in the back and then in the front next with this gentleman. >> a couple of questions actually if i may -- >> your name, please? >> [inaudible] a couple of questions to get to the point of the success of the programs. one of the things there's been a lot of controversy over is the recidivism rate and how you measure that and what you describe as recidivism. you quoted 20% earlier there were 28 custodies that set 2014 and some as low as four or 5% depending what you're talking about returning to violent acts as opposed to just anti-u.s. ideology, stuff like that. so, again, to sum up how would

you define recidivism basically? and the second thing that gets to that is you were just discussing the various spectrum that you are on basically and so should we change the terminology away from dee dee radicalization to kind of 40 years now which was rehabilitation, and discussed the idea of the success, success to move away from violent acts and also for radicalization, so therefore if we are looking at terminology as important in that respect are we just trying to rehabilitate away from violent acts as opposed to radicalization. >> okay. to go ahead, one of the points i wanted to raise you had john

brennan's famous remarks on this where he compared the recidivism rate of 20%. this is when he was speaking at nyu at the islamic center and said sometimes people use that figure 20% and say my goodness one of five detainee's returned to some types of extremist activity but then he countered the american people's system, the recidivism rate is up to something like 50% as far as return to crime so 20% isn't that bad. now, i completely disagree with that. and forestall, to book of what constitutes recidivism there is a good question about that because a lot of these recidivism evidence were on figures like from open source information i can't get the 20% figure. there are some very well-known cases like those that were talked about in the introduction that we definitively can say went through the program and they are recidivists. but the pentagon says, and nobody is seriously challenging

this, the recidivism rate to extremist activity is about 20%. now, the reason i have a problem with brendon's remark in this regard is first of all this 20% right now. the figure is likely to rise over time because it is just the people who've already become recidivists and only a short time. when you look at it over time, and granted more people would be released, but the figure has been climbing consistently and by expected to continue to do so. but the second thing is there is an apples to oranges comparison when you look at a 20% rate and say it's not that bad witches you are comparing it to the overall visit for some rate from everybody within the system of the united states including with a violent and non-violent forms of crime whereas terrorism is an inherently violent activity. now if you look at the broad scope of the deer requisition program some of them have low recidivism rates such as singapore that has done quite well. but i think it is important not just to keep this in the context

of islamic terrorist the radicalization. for example, you can look at columbia where the auc was revised and the rate they're from the auc which is armed militia was only 5% for people who were collectively demobilized and it was even less for people who demobilized individually. so, compared to that, it seems the bulk of the current the radicalization programs are rehabilitation programs just aren't doing that well. and that's something that certainly needs to factor into the analysis when we are thinking about where do you send detainees, what is our policy for people arrested on the battlefield? >> marisa, could you pick up on his other point and that is the choice of language, which i think ase -- >> it is a great point, and i've spent a lot of my time in a research trying to think of six ackley how to refrain and changing the name as part of that, and i haven't come up with a better name yet so if anyone is out there who has a

suggestion, pass it on. but you're right. i mean, is it reforming the terrorists? i don't think it is reprogrammed or d radicalizing. unfortunately, rehabilitation may ignore entirely the ideology which as was mentioned as a part of it. we might differ on how much a part of it really but is simply is in between so i don't know if there is the perfect word out there yet. but it is a good point that we have to sort of reading through how we are understanding of these programs. but just to follow up on the recidivism issue, not to dispute the numbers or how we are measuring them per say, but i would argue that recidivism should not be the bottom line of how we are measuring them. it's right, over time more will return to the fight, not just because there is more out there in the process of someone returning to bad things takes time, but because we are letting out worse and worse people in some instances because over time for some political and legal reasons, more hard-core individuals may be released from

custody. and also because these are -- it takes a long time to measure something like this. a program that's been around a couple of years and has released a handful of people there is no way to tell. but i think we need to really look at how we are assessing people in custody and how the program is making an impact wider than the tactical and of the individuals in custody. so that gets back to my strategic point of looking at it from a strategic perspective. and as a side note on the singapore thing this is where security comes into play. there is an element neither of us mentioned but we need to remember that security efforts are a tool as part of these programs as well in saudi arabia and in singapore which is a heavily secured state, and they are using that as a part of the tool in post release. so do you all agree, this is an interim question you can either answer or in incorporate into this gentleman's question, do you all agree we are one large terrorist attack away from a

departure from using these programs if it is proven that a person we had in custody who went through rehabilitation program conducts and effectively carries out a large scale terrorist attack in the united states? and i figure that, i hear that, i assure you hear that in your research and when you are out in the road and we will go to this gentleman. >> thank you. ayaan from the center of democracy and human rights [inaudible] -- i want to thank the heritage foundation for keeping these e. jensen going on but keeping this issue on the front but not because it is going to go away. ibm here because a friend of yours insisted i should come here and i haven't met your friend yet. i'm from saudi arabia. i know a little bit about the country and the way that the war

is used in very aware from the region that the head of the al qaeda who throw this process. i am also aware that these people -- by the way it is reprogramming these people. they were programmed to kill, they are going to keep killing other people but not us, that is what it is i don't know if you are aware of that most of the people who go through, not all of them, these rehabilitation programs are used by the saudi interior ministry to fight, kill, incarcerate or keep the shiites or every beah in line. so those go back to what they were before.

they are being used by the authorities to control the minorities. my question is what is the difference and the objective? and i agree one of you may have mentioned there are more reasons for terrorism other than just religion. religion is a tool used because the only thing they know is religion. so they are being brainwashed from childhood and until the donner. the question of how this time talking about what objectives. what is the difference between the objective of the saudi government family, religious clerics and bilateral groups? and the reason i'm asking this committee should be in no religious freedom, no rights for minorities, both of them do

that. so what's the difference? what's the difference between people we think who are going to save as and the people who are going to kill us. >> with sufficient to answer. marisa? >> sure. first of all, i think you might have been a plant in the audience because you did raise the interesting question how the saudis use the detainee's that are successful the graduates of the program to help with the counterterrorism efforts and this is a little known fact that counterterrorism experts and those in the system would say there's a side benefit for doing these programs. somehow we could flip a detainee and helpless after the fact. and frankly if this becomes more widely known it actually may inhibit the ability of other detainees to rejoin the fight to associate with their old friends if it becomes known when you get through the program you are working for the government. it's a site known fact it does play a role in saudi arabia. with regard to how you are looking at the objectives plea

for these programs and saudi were other places, i'm going to use this as an opening to describe to go back to the program itself a bit and recognize or appreciate the saudi program yes it is publicly proclaimed to be religiously based program with an ideological and changing the mind of the detainees. however, if you look at what is actually going on with the program over time, having visited a number of times the past four years and looked at what's going on there you see over time they introduced more and more rehabilitative efforts, more and more efforts to change the actions of the detainees to give them something when they get out and we integrate them into society. no the saudi government is not likely to say that they are changing their approach on ideology because the legitimacy of the government is predicated as daveed explained on religion, ideology. but we should recognize when we are looking at what is most effective that even a program like that over time has actually

become more and more inclusive and focused on the rehabilitation efforts. so i am using your question as an opportunity to explain that and it's important when we are trying to discard the programs. >> daveed, you get the final word. >> it is an argument that i agree with, that when you are looking at -- when you are looking at the official saudi version of islam and looking at how we are trying to -- people who have been radicalized believe there's not that much daylight between them and that is an inherent problem that win authors right about this, and i provided a few quotes before that were meant to be reassuring that the show these people straight from the street religion, i sat there and fought for a while what is the difference? what is it that they were worried about and the error that they made was deciding to attack saudi arabia. so, i think that actually understanding what is being taught -- i agree that there are

rehabilitative efforts that go beyond that, and i feel that one thing i like about the saudi program is those rehabilitative efforts, trawling in the family for example and the programs that can be described as after care, jobs and the like. in some ways those are going to work. but the main way in which they are going to work and think is creating a much more stability for saudi arabia. all i am not convinced that the program's end up creating more stability at large in part when you look at saudi arabia they've pretty openly ll terrorist finance years to operate, and you can name them. my former employer who is a major finance year of a terrorist organization throughout the world, you can find it of money going to somalia to go to insurgent groups in iraq and afghanistan and when someone goes the detention program does that make us safer? i know it makes the saudis safer. i'm not convinced it makes us

safer and in many ways this comes back to the question of ideologies which needs to factor into the analysis and look there's other factors driving as well. this is not all of ideologies. everyone agrees upon that but as long as that is a backer of a question and not the front -- not a question that is much more of the forefront and until people are actually asking these questions with specific to terrorists groups believe and what they're teaching and the like we are going to have a lot of problems actually making sure that these programs function in a way that we like to believe they do. >> ladies and gentlemen, thank you for coming and please join me in thanking the panelists. [applause] we are adjourned. [inaudible conversations]

[inaudibleonversations]

throughout april see the winners of c-span's studentcam tebeau documentary competition. middle and high school students from 45 states submitted figures on one of the country's greatest strengths or challenge the country is facing. watch the top winning videos every morning on c-span at 6:50 eastern just before washington journal, and at 8:30 during the program to meet the students who made them and for a preview of all of the winners, visit studentcam.org. this month the australian parliament minister kevin rudd welcome to the indonesian president's first address to members in parliament house. leader members questioned the prime minister on the cost of health care, border security and climate change. this 31 minute event is courtesy of a-pac, australia's public

affairs channel. ♪ ♪ >> hello, i'm david. welcome to the highlights of the australian parliament in march. as the two sides of politics prepare for an election in australia later this year, the campaign themes are starting to emerge. labor prime minister kevin rudd announced plans for major health reform in march and fixing the nation's hospitals. but the opposition says his plan both work and they fear small hospitals could be forced to close. opposition leader tony abbott announced major reform plans of his own in march a six month paid leasing scheme funded through a new tax on business. there was also a clash between the two sides of the border

protection as more boats carrying asylum seekers arrived in the australian waters the there was a rare moment of bipartisanship in march as both sides honored the visiting indonesian president, susilo bambang yudhoyono. he became the first leader to address the dustin allen and parliament. >> mr. speaker, mr. president, honorable members, on honorable senators, today is only the fifth time in the 110 year history of this parliament that the two houses have met together to hear an address from a visiting head of state or visiting head of government. and today's the first time that we do so to hear and address the republican president of indonesia. in doing so, we symbolize the profound changes that have occurred in the relationship between the two countries. mr. president, we welcome you as our neighbor.

mr. president, we welcome you as our friend. and we welcome you now as a member of the family of democracies. a nation which now celebrates political freedom. a nation whose parliament is as loud and noisy and robust as the parliament which we are now assembled. a nation where freedom of the press is now exercised without constraint, without restraint, without fear of repression. these are profound changes in which you have played no small part. and we're delighted to welcome you now as a fellow democracy. >> i believe that indonesia and australia are on the same page on the need to foster a more space order to reflect the political and economic landscape. we are both firm believers in the virtue of multilateral issues and the need to reform

the united nations system and anticipate work may be the sensory telstra early we're also committed to strengthen and involve the architecture is important that the regional architecture default in ways that insure a new equilibrium usual politics and cooperation in. in addressing the global financial crisis i am pleased that i was able to look closely with the pri minister from any phone calls back and forth to the realizations of the historic gif 20 samet which was in dca in 2008. it is a sign of the times that indonesia and australia are a part of the premier forum for international economic cooperation. we both served interest in knott

fincen benge 20 process in reforming the international financial market sector and in promoting a balanced system and an inclusive growth. we also need to ensure that g20 meters are aware of the danger of complacency that will result in the reform process losing steam. the pri minister and i have kept in close consultation with economic issues and guess, we do we not one another during the g20 meetings. the prime minister and i have also been in close talks on the issue of people smuggling. given the regional circumstances, this is an issue that is likely to go on. we believe in the imperative of the process which recognizes people smuggling is a problem that requires a regional

solution evolving the transit and destination countries to work together. what is our response? we have finally worked out a bill that a mechanism of cooperation to deal with this issue soli cases can be handled in a predictable and coordinated way. we will continue to work together to add since the party process. we will speed up the process of relocating in indonesia to other countries. now that we know much more about modus operandi of the respected authorities would intensify the cooperation to disrupt people smuggling activities and to strengthen the instrument the government will soon institute a parliament that will criminalize those involved in people smuggling, those found guilty would be sent to prison for up to five years.

[applause] the international police to the policies will continue to work closely together including intelligence sharing and exchange and capacity building. we continue to be relentless in our fight against terrorism. we have success at a dangerous [inaudible] in recent weeks we will be able to destroy terrorist cells and training and of other places in indonesia which had some connections with other terrorists in the region. just yesterday police authorities raided an important terrorist cell in jakarta and out of commission. in any case, the authorities will continue to hunt them down

and do all we can to prevent them from harming our people. i agree completely with the prime minister rudd who said in a the bombing that attack anywhere is an attack on all of us. any terrorist attack on our friends in indonesia is an attack on our neighbors. another major concern that we share is climate change. prime minister rudd and i have worked closely in the conference years ago. last december we were both part of a meeting of 20 liters produced the copenhagen accord but the will to literal form there is much that can be done between us before we are reaching for the new global climate treaty to take place. i appreciate the opportunity to work constructively on the partnership. indonesia also operates a sports

for the triangle initiative which indonesia initiated and has become our collaborative efforts with militia to develop [inaudible] we conserve the marine biodiversity area in the region known as the amazon of the seas. some 120 million people around this area is dependent on it. in the same spirit of conserving the resources we hosted the conference which australia strongly supported. we work with telstra leggitt to ensure the mainstreaming in the copenhagen accord. >> i would like to talk about health and hospital policy because the first thing i will say about it is that members opposite, the members of this government should stop telling lies.

[inaudible conversations] >> order, order! the order of the opposition will withdraw. >> mr. speaker i withdraw and say they should stop telling grotesque and truth about the government and every single year between 1996 -- spec order! >> -- went up and went up massively. i don't claim to have been a surly the world's greatest health minister because i am not that conceded. i just say i was a better health minister and any one of the other side of at this time and i say, mr. speaker we reduced the medicare safety net and the

record speak -- [inaudible conversations] >> the next person, the next person that displays even within the guidelines that i said earlier in the parliament, will be march. the leader of the opposition >> mr. speaker the leader, the prime minister came into this parliament today, put his hand of his heart and talked about the cancer center in -- i provided that money. the cancer center, mr. speaker. the leader of opposition comes to this parliament and puts his hand on his heart and

[inaudible] i promised that money, mr. speaker! i promised that money! [inaudible] now mr. speaker, mr. speaker -- >> order! there in paris that shows, the prime minister comes in and talks about in. what a fraud, what a disgrace this man is. now mr. speaker -- book, mr. speaker, i suppose we can't expect anything remotely approaching graciousness from the spill minister but if we may

that the policies we ask what is my response? mr. speaker my response is the same of the premier. some of them question and some of them opposed. on a question of the policies and oppose much of the policy because just mr. speaker as the climate change policy is to a tax. mr. speaker, he says what he wants to do is have a hospital system which is nationally funded and run. mr. speaker, he is wrong on both counts. it won't be nationally funded because the states will still have to provide 40% of the

founding. and believe me, the premise tried to make the states and brought up that money and as the prime minister who was never had the kind of experience that any prime minister who is free to bring about a public hospital reform needs. he says that it's likely. the only way that it will be lightly brown is if he can persuade the state by the governments to provide genuine local control of public hospitals. now this is the test, this is the test of his local hospital networks. will each significant public hospital have its own board? will each of those boards comprise people who are genuinely expert in the field of health management and governance? will those people be genuinely independent of government and not just the start of union head

which this government typically a points to the boards, and will they have real management authority over the public hospitals? will they be able to make decisions about the public hospitals without reference to the head office? and mr. speaker, if they are able to raise money locally, can the prime minister guarantee that there will not be any compensating the adjustment to the funding that they get from the state's? he can't answer any of those questions. why do we know he can't answer any of those questions? because the state premiers have put those questions to him and they have told us that he hasn't been able to provide any data. i have told the world -- i have told the world that there is no detail. it's good to have been laid back. [laughter] >> mr. speaker not in the pages of the financial review today but here this dispatch.

what we have finally, finally after an entire week in this place is intervention by the leader of the opposition on health and hospital policy. day-by-day we waited were a question that we've waited in vain because it took today and the challenge of the leader of the opposition to come to dispatch box and just say something, however little, however small, however in significant about health and hospitals. so, mr. speaker, i oppose the question before which is does he support or does he oppose the government's health policy? i thought it was a pretty reasonable question, not to ask and the one after the policy cannot, not even on days to but just think two weeks later he might have formed a view. so is defined position on the health and hospital policy of the government of the commonwealth of australia is a question of it and i oppose most of it. well, mr. speaker, that is the

definitive conclusion on the part of the leader of the opposition. in other words, give me a chance to sit on a few more weeks, few more months, wait to see when the weather vane terms and then make a decision because the leader of the opposition knows a lot about weather vanes. he knows it constitutes his moral compass. that is whichever way it blows so that wilky take the politics of his position. and on the way through mr. speaker heaney's his extraordinary claim about the center of their. he said it should be called bertoni abbett cancer center. did i hear that correctly? he reminds me that in fact i got it wrong. i said earlier today that they had promised prior to the last election i got it wrong, the promise it the last two elections. mr. speaker, pardon me for understating their level of

commitment. they committed to it twice. mr. speaker when we went to the election at the end of last year did we see any evidence of anything on the ground? no, we did not we actually delivered the founding, we actually delivered the construction. we actually delivered a conference of cancer center for the good people so that in the future they don't have to travel all the way to receive their cancer services. that is what making a difference is all about. not just making a speech prior to in the election, prior to the previous election when she was also the health minister and hoping the people would just forget about it once he's captured the headlines because that is the over all the important thing for the opposition. capture the headline and wait for someone else to pick up the hill. mr. speaker, he also made reference to the scanner, the pet scanner at the north shore

hospital. we are advised by the locals that they started making representations and 1997 and the local doctors couldn't get the member of the north sydney to even organize a visit to the hospital by the minister. not in '97, '98, 99, but when did they finally visit the north shore hospital? i'm told it was in the magical year of 2007. i'm told it was pretty late in the year of 2007 because it particular event was looming called an election and mr. speaker refunded the scanner and are proud to have done so, and again it makes a difference on the ground. mr. speaker, the leader of the opposition has raised questions about the health and hospital network put forth by the government. our plan is very straightforward. it is for a new national health and hospital network. for the first time funded nationally and from locally.

the leader of the opposition said how dare you consider such a plan? how dare you consider such a possibility? when i certainly remember a leader of the opposition in the four or five years he was minister for health saying the commonwealth government should take over the system. now, mr. speaker, did i get that right or did i get it wrong? the minister for health as he was -- nearly five years as health minister to act on this matter of deep conviction because we all know it is a street talking opposition. we know that he is a conviction politician and then when he says the commonwealth should to go for the health system you know for sure he will be a man of action and do it. five years later nothing happened and now the opposition he occupies is in fact this government is doing the wrong thing by becoming the dominant funders of the system.

mr. speaker from locally at the hospital across the country so that clinicians, doctors, nurses and others can have a major role in the management of the system to the >> my question is to the treasury. will the treasured update the house on the as as much of the australian economy and what respected economists and institutions are saying about the state of our recovery. >> the treasurer. >> i thank the numbers for the questions because this economy has come through this global recession, the strongest growing at 33 and danced economies. and only one of two that did not contract during the calendar year of 09. and of course we have unemployment rates that are the envy of the united states and europe and it has been something like 180,000 jobs created over the past year. and i think that is supported

strongly by everyone on this side of the house. everyone on this side of the house that has supported the government's economic stimulus. the fact is australians have worked together. and lawyers and employees. the community has come together to produce this outcome. and this has been a remarkable achievement. and it's been commented on today by the reserve bank in terms of the menace that has been released today. this is what they have to say to it now appeared the peak of unemployed rate in the recent downturn has been equal to around the low point in the previous three cycles. that is a fantastic result for australia, fantastic result. and this has been commented upon by the commonwealth bank the chief economist who had this to say a couple of days ago. he said the australian economy was still the full force of the global financial crisis and recession remarkably well. australia and dodged the recession will which is what michael had to say.

he then went on to comment how that was the case. and he had this to say. a year ago it was said australia was collapsing to read much as it was everywhere else the extreme pessimism proved relatively short-lived however. a large part of the divergence that and expectations and reality reflects the fact that aggressive policy action worked, and worked quickly. that was the impact of the government stimulus mr. speaker. of course with the events of the past months show is the importance of maintaining confidence through responsible economic management. and of course what we have seen from those opposite is exactly the opposite. what we are seeing is a glimpse of reckless decisions from the leader of the opposition and what he may do if he were in government. we have seen total disarray. those of us that could not

describe it the size of the tax, who it would apply to, when it would start. the have simply been in disarray. but the good news that the senator came back today. he came back to make it crystal clear he was asked by curtis this question. business will pass if you are taxed on companies like woolworth. that will be in the price of bread and milk. senator joyce, it will. it will. now of course, what he is confirmed is what we have been saying is the price will be paid by pensioners and families, mr. speaker. all of this -- all of this so somebody on $150,000 a year can receive $200,800 per week. $200,800 per week. now mr. speaker, mr. speaker,

he's not content with pulling a billion dollars of public hospitals. that's fine. that's fine, pulling a billion dollars of public hospitals but he wants to pay $200,800 per week to somebody on a $150,000 a year, mr. speaker. that just tells you the twisted priority of this legal opposition and how out of touch he is -- how out of touch he is the lifestyle of average australians. mr. speaker, she said something very revealing in the party room last week. very revealing. what we've discovered is a big new tax. [inaudible conversations]

>> order! order! order, order! the house will come to order. order! order! those on my right, minister for finance, the member for account of a point of order. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i would ask you to ask the minister opposite to withdraw those poddy mouth remarks. [laughter] >> order. >> mr. speaker. >> the treasurer. the treasurer has concluded. the treasurer has the call. >> when he was speaking in the party ruled last week and i think he's repeated these remarks before, he said that he would always refer to apologize after the and to seek permission before policy announcement.

that should send a chill down the spine of every business in this country. not seek permission before, not the front with the people in the business the manatee, taking a decision and then somehow make it right by apologizing leader mr. speaker. now he was only exceeded in his arrogance in those statements by the statements from the treasure because the treasurer when he was asked about this big new tax said it was a windfall gain for business to a big new tax becomes a windfall gain for business. and of course, we all know senator joyce has been out there putting his points of view in new definitions. we have net growth private debt. what we have here is the three stooges of the opposition front bench mr. speaker. the had no credibility. no credibility with the business community. no credibility with the wider community because they came into

this house when this country was in its hour of need and the opposed the stimulus that saved their country. they opposed the stimulus that has created 180,000 jobs. and now they propose to put a big tax on business which will push out prices for pensioners, families and of course mr. speaker the whole community will suffer. so they have demonstrated over the past few weeks is just how reckless they are and how incapable the are of managing an economy of this country. my question is to the prime minister and i remind the prime minister of his promise in 2007 to take, quote come a very hard line. a very tough line on people smuggling, and of quote. primm minister, with 24 votes, and i have the 1200 on authorized by falls in just the past ten weeks, isn't his hollow

promise of 2007 just below this example of a government which is all talk and no action? [inaudible conversations] >> order to read the prime minister. >> thank you mr. speaker and i thank the honorable member for his question. could i inform the honorable member in response to his question of the following. the highest number of votes in writing a estherville again in any one year was in fact in 1999 when 3,700 asylum seekers are live on 86 boats. that is one measure. mr. speaker, can i say as follows the highest number of asylum seekers in australia in any one year -- >> order! >> it was in 2001 under the previous government. >> order! order! >> can i also say to the member who refers i believe to the recent statistics in november of 1999 there were 14 voter our rifles the highest number of votes in any one time on record.

mr. speaker, this was followed by further arrivals in 1999. mr. speaker, in fact our quote from the then minister who said in a period following one november of 1999, 29 votes with 202045 people that have arrived illegally in australia mostly from the middle east and subcontinent. so mr. speaker, when the leader of the opposition asks questions about the effectiveness of government policy at different times and under different circumstances, i would draw his attention to the historical record of his own party when in government. >> for the more mr. speaker could i say to the response of the leader of opposition in his question -- >> the member -- >> -- more assets patrolling our borders than any other government. secondly, we are investing more in international and regional action to counter people smuggling than any other government. thirdly, mr. speaker, we have arrested more people smugglers than any of the government i am

advised with 117 of rest, 89 apparently before the courts. fourth, mr. speaker, i met fisa misgovernment we are seeing more people smuggling dentures disrupted and under any other government. mr. speaker, can i say to those opposite that the responsibility of any elected government of australia is to take appropriate action response to whatever global security circumstances and regional security circumstances print said themselves that the government the time. when he was primm yesterday did so in search of the people smuggling activity that occurred in the late 90's and early 2000. this government is to link the same today in response to the changes which have a particular resin from sri lanka. mr. speaker, i would say in response to the leader of the opposition does the from it will continue to take a responsible approach dealing with the challenge of people smuggling and for those who are found not to be genuine asylum seekers they will be sent back home as in fact we have already done in a number of cases. >> those were the highlights of

the australian parliament in march. i am a david speers. hope you can join us next time. ♪ ♪

the house transportation and infrastructure committee held an oversight hearing on the stimulus spending today. members heard from a number of business owners and construction employees who benefit from the stimulus as well as the director of fallujah's transportation department and an economist is a critic of stimulus. this is just over two and a half hours. [inaudible conversations] the committee on transportation infrastructure will come to order. apologies from the chair for the second delay. we were delayed to 11:00 because it was clear the house was going to remain in session last night, but then i was delayed further last night, way into the late

hours, close to midnight trying to resolve matters with the other body as we affectionately call our friends across the way and even into this morning problems still were being worked out. and so i was on necessarily the late by the other body that necessarily had to delay the beginning of this hearing. the 15th in our series of the accountability hearings on the performance of state d.o.t. metropolitan planning organizations, the state revolving loan fund authorities and the other federal agencies who have direct spending responsibility under the stimulus act that congress

passed a year ago. it seems like a much wintertime than a year. but in that period of time, as we will hear in the course of today's session, we will have -- we will be able to account for 1 million, 200 plus thousand jobs with programs under the jurisdiction of this committee. an extraordinary record of accomplishment. and on those direct jobs directly on jobsites from highway transit and waste water not counting all the others in the federal government agencies, payroll expenditures of $1,800,000,000, federal taxes withheld from those on jobsites,

$376 million unemployment compensation checks avoided $296 million. that is a net overall extraordinarily positive contribution to our gross domestic product. in addition, the state dot can account for 24,000 miles of highway and proved built, wyden, reena and 1200 bridges either replaced, restored or constructed. 20,000 miles of high week with half of the entire interstate highway system that took 50 years to build and this amount of highway improvement has been done in one year. before i go further, and recognize the witnesses i would like to yield to the gentleman from iowa, mr. boswell, who has a plane to catch and planned to

leave town according to the 10:00 schedule but who has delayed his departure and he has witnesses in this morning's hearing. mr. boswell, thank you for your wonderful support of our stimulus legislation and all of the programs of the committee. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and again, we all thank you for your leadership and vision of trying to teach everybody this complex transportation infrastructure is good paying jobs, and they are not exportable. the jobs are right here that we need to do the things we need to do and you have certainly been a leader in this. we can't speak to we had discussions about the recovery going on at the money to be available to the states and your concept of the report back who is ready to go and so on and i think that i showed you at that time that my i would department of transportation would be standing ready to go.

and i am pleased to report that's true they've been near the top in the responsiveness and we are privileged to have something i've known for a long, long time they are very much an expert transportation and that is our director of the iowa department of transportation, ms. richardson so i welcome her today and thank her because i know not only she responded to the direction, she's ready for the next round. she's ready. sitting next to her is mr. brad miller, young fellow who came to our capital city a few years ago and people said i don't know if he can fill the shoes of the guys that went ahead of him but he has and he has filled in very well. he is the director of the general manager of the des moines area transportation authority and transit authority and he did a bang up job, innovative, getting people to use public transportation and making it for libel, dependable

and coming up with the concept to have a location where people can get in and out easily and so on and i'm sure he will share that with you today so i'm very appreciative the people in my state and my capital city aren't responding and responding in a very expert right hand to the very guidelines that you established and i look across the table and that crowd we have a lot of people who have a lot of things to share and its appreciate it has just commented about his speed a truck driver, right? is a few of us in the congress has an unrestricted cvs and i would sure that with you so i know something about that a little bit. glad to have you here using this route system of ours to keep the commerce going and i appreciated very much so mr. chairman i

would yield backend thank you for this and i can stay a few minutes but i really appreciate the attention and leadership you've given to this extremely important matter to the country and across the whole country especially for me in the state fallujah. thank you very much mr. chairman. >> thank you, mr. boswell. at this time the chair will deal to the distinguished chair subcommittee on economic development and fema and a host of other issues has been diligent in holding hearings on the subcommittees' portion of the stimulus. ms. wharton. >> thank you, mr. chairman, you take accountability to a new level. this chairman is sitting accountability hearings on the stimulus when most members of congress have long since gone having passed a historic health care bill they felt they were entitled. well, chairman oberstar was

entitled, too, but in keeping with the way he always approaches his work, here we sit. and and accountability hearing and one that i think is important. because occasionally you hear people say well, if you've gotten stimulus funds, i'm not sure that i myself have personally felt it. well, that certainly is true and chairman oberstar and many office would have preferred to have seen a larger stimulus package but what these account of the hearings have done mr. sherman is to show that the money has hit the ground and it's hit the ground in los small part -- no small part because the accountability the likes of which the congress has never seen. ..

agencies are being held accountable, the states are being held accountable and that is difficult because the agencies are pass-throughs for the states, yet they are being held accountable. if you don't believe the states are being held accountable, every member is going to be looking at this sheet to see where her state fit. i must say, mr. chairman, i'm pleased to see that the c and i must say, mr. chairman, i'm pleased to see that the district of columbia on highways and bridges has 85.3% under contract in the united states among the 50 states and the district of columbia ranks 14th. i've said to my state, don't embarrass. we worked too hard to get these

fun. i don't see how there can be any controversy over these funds because they have put it in black and white almost every week to help us track our own jurisdiction and the agencies over which we have oversight. senator chairman, i thank you for the accountability that you're showing through these hearings and if i may say so, mr. chairman, they're showing up also at the hearing that the mideast when we are having hearing to hold the agencies under our jurisdiction accountable. my own agencies, eda, gsa, the smithsonian, a number of federal agencies, precisely because they know not only am i holding them accountable, but the full chairman chairman is looking at them just as hard, have proceeded in ways i found satisfactory. and if you continuously done,

not only with those who come to these hearings note that this money has been put to good use as the press focuses on how you are putting facts and figures he for a public it will be impossible to underestimate what the stimulus money making for a committee has done for the american people. i thank you again, mr. chairman. >> again, i repeat my appreciation, admiration for your persistence in holding the accountability series, which have served to spur on the federal agencies to stay on course, ontrack or be shown to the public for failing to do their job. in the first series of hurrying, first three months of hearings have shown great inconsistencies among the states and federal agencies. but after the information was made public and report to

members and calls than to say federal agencies, they all got on board. and they moved their projects up slightly. mr. cummings, thank spearman >> thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate being able to receive the wastewater infrastructure products under the american recovery and reinvestment act. under your leadership, mr. chairman, this committee has kept meticulous records of how recovery act funding has been extended. i applaud the diligence of our staff and compiling the data that's available to us today. you've ensure that we have remained focused on the goal of getting this money out of the door and flowing into the economy as quickly as possible, while also ensuring that funding recipients are fully accountable for every single dollar they expand. today's report shows that more than $48 billion of the more

than $64 billion provided for transportation infrastructure under the e.u. recovery act is now obligated more than 18,500 projects. further, the $38 billion for the highway transit and wastewater projects that are the focus of today's hearing, eda% of the available funding has been put out to bid your work has begun on more than 12,500 projects, totaling $26.7 billion. these expenditures have created or sustained nearly 350,000 jobs. these are truly stunning achievements of the work is underway is producing the new and rehabilitated infrastructure that will ensure our future mobility. mr. chairman, many of us forget that when we enacted the sickness we faced an economic crisis of unprecedented proportions. which is such provide

$700 billion in federal funding to keep our entire financial system from melting down. we were uncertain of whether it will be added here it against that backdrop, mr. chairman, while the current unemployment rate of 9.7% is unacceptably high, i note that unemployment among minorities is still higher with employment -- unemployment among african-americans covering at some 15.8%. i am certain it would have been far higher had we not taken a critical decision, made the critical decision to enact the recovery act. finally, the fact that we now need a reminding of the severity of the crisis we face when we approve these expenditures is perhaps the best possible testament to the effectiveness of a recovery act. i again recommend you chairman for holding a hearing today and i look forward to the testimony of eyewitnesses and without a

yield back. >> thank you very much for your kind words, but also again for the splendid cooperation you, ms. norton, all the members of our committee have expanded in assuring that the work of the committee on stimulus is carried out by the responsible agencies in each of you doing your respect to oversight work, mr. cummings, chair of the coast guard maritime subcommittee. at this time, i would ask without objection the statement of mr. mica, the senior republican on this committee. he had to be out of town and give his concurrence proceeding with the hearing without his presence. his statement will be on the record in full. today's hearing will focus on the work of the federal highway

administration, trance, fixed guideway, wastewater trigger programs. but there's also and truck, which i started work on $1.1 billion which is 82% of amtrak's funding. those investments will result in the replacement of 80,000 concretize. restoration to service 60 and fleet passenger cars. twenty-one super liners, 15 locomotives and the improvement of 270 passenger stations. faa has completed work or is work underway on 94% of its $1.2 billion, 663 projects. those projects went up so fast because of the unique contract team authority aviation

agencies, airport authorities who can advertise, award bids but withhold work on the project until the funding is available, were able to get further ahead of the work than the transportation agencies. so those aviation investments have produced 155 runway improvement projects, 139 airports that accommodate 11 million takeoffs and landings a year, 82 taxiway improvements that 78 airports come additional airports that accommodate 8 million operations. the epa has awarded $582 million for 57 superfund construction projects for design projects and work is underway or completed on 45 of those that are at a total

of $502 million. the corps of engineers has committed $3.1 billion for 780 projects. navigation repair or improvement to 284 blocks and commercial ports. 11:24 p.m. and by the safety projects, maintenance and upgrading 460 corps of engineers recreation facilities, lakes and core constructed dams that resulted recreation areas. those investments are extremely important to the navigation and movement of people and goods on our inland waterways. and the general services administration, prodded by ms. norton's hearings have awarded contracts and begun work on the 383 projects, $2.4 billion, 42% of the

funding. the economic development administration has awarded 60 acres for $147 million. coast guard, alteration of pages, four projects are underway totaling $81 million. all of these have resulted in jobs, people working, getting their lights restored, such a joyce fisk who i had the unexpected pleasure of meeting last august on interstate 35, project project of knife river construction. they were doing 28 lane miles of highway between north branch and rest rest city and it was a day like today, it will make overcast, rainy, true silly, dreary day, but the clouds parted and the sun came out with ms. fisk's smile as she jumped

down from her truck on the job site and arms around me and said, thank you, i'm working. joyce fisk represents the human face of recovery, as stimulus. so we're going to begin with ms. fisk's story. thank you for traveling all the way out here. >> thank you or inviting me. good morning everyone, ladies and gentlemen of the committee. >> please get a little poster to the microphone. >> by name is joyce fisk. i am 35 years old and the mother of a tall girl boy named austin. i'm married to jean fisk, a volunteer firefighter and first responder in our community. we both work for knife river corporation in minnesota. i drive a belly now and jean dress a dump truck. we live in all mullins, a small town about 40 miles northeast of minneapolis and ten miles east of interstate 35.

i met chairman oberstar while working on high 35 project last summer. it was a stimulus funded project and i was filled by mr. oberstar took the time to come to the job in progress, to take the time to talk to someone like me, just a truck driver and painful to have a job. mr. oberstar told me about the new bill he was working on and the practice was making. i went home that evening and ready quick e-mail to the transportation committee thinking them for taking the time to visit in d.c. is hard work and action. as a belly dump driver, i transfer materials to and from a job. i haul materials such as class for the road base for a whole millington way do work tearout then i also haul makes to a paver. but i not only drive the track. i am expected to help maintain them. i griese moving parts. i checked the oil daily, crawling engine department,

check for cracks in my frame into even make small repairs on the road if i need to. i for 500 miles or more on a day giving and driving an 80,000-pound truck is easy. i have to constantly be alert for traffic hazards, other drivers, and animals and puddles in a commute challenge to drive all day without getting tired here at even moref a challenge is trying to guess what's going to happen next spring. i get laid off every winter i'm usually brown thanksgiving and would usually be recalled in may after road restrictions are lifted. last year was the first time i panicked when i heard our plants only a 10,000 pounds of mix and no goods were being one. we're proud of our company. knife river has a large workforce of knowledgeable men and women who care about their community. we care about each other and provide moral support, but with no jobs to bed because of the recession and uncertain

government funding i watched morale fall. it was difficult to stay optimistic and we started to argue about who's going to get the hours intimate work stressful. my husband and i started to wonder what were we going to do if something didn't come in soon. i recall a fight to get another job to sustain the household. what about health care? we banked up to 600 hours during the summer that allow us to qualify for health care during the layoff season. but if the hours runout we have to pay for the cobra and to continue coverage is almost unaffordable and unemployment and to make a mortgage payment, too. what could we afford to give up? austin might have to give up the saxophone. i want an electric guitar. my mom made me sell it because we needed the money. we decided to sell the pickup we were making payments on sonoma newest vehicle we aren't is an 8-year-old pontiac with 160,000 miles on it.

we were preparing for a long summer of an award. the previous year 2000 was hard on our industry. we saw close friends lose jobs than we realized we no longer could take hours for granted. but then our plant estimator won the bid on the actor device in a list project and weren't relieved. we were happy for the new state of happiness. with faith in the economy again. the menu menubar friends are still out of work and our many minnesota growth in need of repair. some highways are almost undrivable in a tractor-trailer because they're deteriorated to the point of being a taste. we have a long-term dedicated highway bill that will allow small companies a chance to rebuild and provide real jobs that will last. short-term bills are good for keeping a few companies afloat, but the real deal of a six year

$450 billion dedication of funds to transportation can restore confidence to companies and their workers. a new funding bill can ease the congestion in big cities and heavily traveled highways. funding for light rail transit can save time, money and help clean up our environment. without future funding, it is the manufacturer selling new equipment. there will be no companies starting up and offering new jobs. road construction is constant. there'll there always be a need for repairs at let's stop the band-aid approach and put money into infrastructure that's going to offer real jobs that are going to last and get our economy moving again. thank you for this opportunity to speak today. >> thank you very much for that heartfelt statement. you just summed it all up so well. your personal story though has been repeated a million, china

doesn't times all over the country. people who are laid off face a bleak future and to have had a respite and our task, our challenge as you suggested is you appealed for to enact the six-year authorization bill and continued the extent -- the regular programs of the federal aid highway program and make it possible to do the more complex projects that take longer time and involve more effort and more subcontractors were minority enterprises will have more of an opportunity. and in simple mill and overlay projects. but before i go to our next witness, i must observe the

on-the-job site. i've driven over i 35 at the points many, many times. maybe hundreds of times over the years. but there was a red so deep so deep so deep -- for arm disappeared in it. the engineer but his road level on the surface and went right over this two inches over my forearm. it's not a dainty little for either. and that was the nature of the project being undertaken and it was so heartwarming. i've been at that sand and gravel pit that knife river opened to carry out the project and there were workers doing the classifying sand, gravel and aggregate, who had been laid off two months earlier, who now were back on the job as ms. fisk. and the staff reminded me under

the road miles i'd been using six rebuild it here. we're now at 34,438 miles. of highway improvements. i come back to each of the witnesses. our next witness is mr. mr. florentino esparza luna. my grandfather, came from naples italy as a carpenter and 1896. settled on the providence rhode island to build on the homes and went iron ore was discovered in northern minnesota, district that i now represent, he and many others were leeward west to build homes in the higher or mining country. so we come from a family of

carpenters. it's very touching for me. one is a picture of alice ando as he said in the five years old hammer in hand pounding nails in the home that i still live in. mr. luna. >> thank you, chairman oberstar, ranging member micah. it's an honor to join you today. my name is florentino esparza luna and i'm a resident of the district of maryland. i am a member of the united brotherhood of carpenters and joined the vocal 1145 with the council of carpenters. i hear the district of columbia, maryland, virginia and west virginia. local 1145, but we work through

the machine. my mission today is simply on a straight forward. the stimulus passed by this congress and signed by president obama, providing me with a job that i have now. i'm a living proof of the job creation from the recovery pact. the stimulus health fund, the brotherhood where i work. i appreciate being able to work for a contractor with the federal dollars to provide transportation. a job means so much. nothing is more important than providing for my family. i work for cherry hill on the project in virginia. after being unemployed for over four months, i started work on this project in december 2009. i'm a skilled carpenter. i build conflict forms and

perform all the carpenter work on these huge multimillion dollars project. their two carpenters working on the project now. the project is about 350 workers in the construction trade. it will, they will complete. roadbuilding the extension. my contractor waived their forests to faces of the world. the project involve extending, grading, training, building a sound wall. it will make a big difference in northern virginia were as juno traffic can be terrible. the members of the congress who voted for the recovery. you play a key role in helping me provide for my family. i have a wife and two children. it's not easy getting an

unemployment check. i know that the workers through the industry. construction workers are a strong union. many of the opportunities in this presidential and commercial parts of the industry with the recession. members of the local union even if an unemployment rate twice the national average. my local union is doing better than that industry. as you know, chairman oberstar, an employment rate nationally is is -- too many construction workers simply cannot find work and provide for their families. i would be a lot worse if it wasn't for stimulus.

i need to put food on my family's table. i need to provide health care for myself and my family. i'm also able to put money into retirement. the carpenters union and my employer also invest in the future workforce making investment in the present chip and training. the union believes not just in jobs, but a long-term career and the high unemployment rate in construction and my union has made it difficult to find work opportunities. it is precedent in providing real jobs to the american recovery. it has been so important to me and my brothers and sisters are local 1145. all construction workers of the congress will make more of this investment in economy.

thank you for the opportunity to testify today. i sincerely appreciate it. >> thank you very much for that wonderful heartwarming testimony. we're starting off with two home run hitters here a very personal testimony and personal experience. to me, that is reported not for the hours again, hundreds of hours we put in on crafting this bill beginning in december of 2007, moving it through the house in september of 2008, but resistance from the previous administration said they vetoed the bill. and then we had an election. president obama said he signed a stimulus bill or president-elect that at the time in as president he did sign it. and as the future of transportation this is it.

this is the bill. that we've reported from subcommittee for the six-year authorization in the 750 pages, probably a few more pages to be added once we finish the final legislative drafting. total transformation of the department of the federal highway administration and will be old to move projects much more expeditiously tiered we found lessons learned in the stimulus, that states can move projects are much faster than in the traditional scheme of things and we are incorporating those lessons learned into this bill. so we're moving ahead and your encouragement is very important for me and for my colleagues on this committee. i know mr. micah has many times

said we just have to move ahead with this bill. all of the members feel that way and we've had little difficulty getting the senate to concur with us. but senator boxer made a statement at a hearing two weeks ago last week that she will move ahead with a bill that starts with our committee as the foundation for it. so i'm very encouraged that we'll be able to complete the bill in this session of congress. ms. richardson, director of the iowa department of transportation. you've all been warmly generously introduced by mr. boswell. >> i am nancy richardson, director of the iowa department of transportation on half of the transportation officials. i'm here to talk to you about three things. first, the successive states are achieved into the recovery act. second, the states ability to spend further funding of additional ready to go projects and for the rule of transportation and in rebuilding and sustaining our nation's

economy and the importance of passage of a new federal highway and transit authorization bill. the first mr. chairman, limiting your mac you and your members of the committee for your commitment to transportation which led to the enactment of the higher-ups that extends the highway and transit programs to the end of the year. this means that congress cannot turn its attention to your priority and hours, the enactment of a comprehensive multiyear bill. speaking of economic recovery. as you know, the recovery act added march 2nd user of as a deadline and i'm happy to report today that every state obligated every highway dollar they were eligible to receive and not one dime was returned to washington for redistribution. we are proud of the thousands of jobs the economy -- economic recovery act enabled us to support in iowa and across admission and is a long-lasting economic benefits of this capital investment. the state's record of 100% obligation of the funds by the deadline did not happen just by

accident. it took early planning and preparation and quick action. i am particularly proud of the pace of getting the recovery act funds that do work in my iowa. i am pleased that iowa is consistently ranked in the top five states in your committee's ranking as apostates have moved to get the recovery act funded projects to bed under contract and underway. my state is just one of 50 examples of how they put the recovery act money to certain good u. prior to the active in becoming lobby are iowa d.o.t. worked with local projects would qualify for funding pure want to be ready to hit the ground running when the bill was passed and we were. through these partnerships, we were able to quickly identify over 645 miles of highways and streets, 55 miles of trails, 36 bridges and structures and for freight rail projects that were in need of improvement or replacement and we're ready to make use of a u.s. $308 million. work is begun in iowa on over 200 projects and as of march 15,

215 million or over 60% of the highway funding available to iowa has been received from the fhwa as reimbursement for payments to contractors and vendors. this funding was injected directly into our economy last year it was responsible for creating a retaining jobs all across the state. when spring arrives in the construction season begins again in iowa, we will see the remaining 143 million recovery act funds being used to once again support jobs, eight economic recovery and continue to improve iowa's transportation system. the same successes occurred as result of the transit capital funding with a $25 million and transit funds for iowa small urban and rural transit systems and we're able to identify for much-needed replacement, 216 old transit vehicles. as of the end of february, 136 of those transit vehicles ordered not already been delivered and put into service in iowa.

congress and the public also expect transparency and accountability in our administration of federal funds and i'm confident that the d.o.t. is and our local partners will meet and exceed those of expectations. but what does this mean to americans? first of all, it is my job. i understand every member of the committee has been given a copy of astros report and paychex verdict on states have created or saved 280,000 direct on project., total employment related to the projects has reached 890,000 good while transportation received 6% of total recovery of dollars as of this past december, it was responsible for at least 14% of the total direct jobs saved were created today. but the real stories about people. the people whose jobs are saved or who went back to work. the people who were able to make their mortgage payments, put their kids through school and pay for health care as you just heard. these investments internation's

transportation network, first and foremost, have put and are putting paychecks in people's politics. another primary focus of recovery is job creation and short-term immediate economic stimulus we should not overlook the fact that these investments will provide long-lasting benefits of improvements to the nation's transportation network. were very appreciative of congress' recognition of the role that transportation could play in this nation's economy and we want you to know, chairman, that we remain poised to support continued economic recovery and job growth good early this year astor went back to the states to determine additional ready to go projects for the states have identified more than 98 projects valued at close to $80 billion that could do to through the federal approval process within 120 days of enactment. the recovery act is working on the states to do more of the same if additional funds were available. finally, we urge you to enact a multiyear highway and transit bill before the congress adjourned. we believe the $500 billion surface transportation funding

target that you chairman oberstar have established is a reasonable goal for the six-year authorization. and congress should seek to fund it. we need a balanced bill that increases funding for both highways and high-speed rail. we also need a balanced bill that meets the needs of the liberal and urban parts of the country. mr. chairman, we stand ready to work diligently with you to see the reauthorization happens properly. in closing, let me say thank you to congress for providing us recovery act funds for transportation improvements. the state d.o.t. is taken seriously your confidence in us that we could swiftly and wisely spend the money in order to benefit the economy and we have delivered. we stand ready to slip and wisest in additional funding that you might provide for continued economic recovery. and finally, we urge you to continue efforts in advocacy for passage of a well-funded, balanced a multiyear transit belle. i appreciate the opportunity to testify or to be happy to answer

questions. >> to make very much for that spun a testimony. congratulations on the superb achievements in iowa and to the stimulus as you reported. and for the work of ash does is the report of projects and paychecks and it's well documented with photos of the successful projects all around the cntry andhey just love stuff like that. you know, it just gets me going. and this is the asheville proposal for the 98 additional projects in nearly half of those are projects that mr. horsley, your executive director says can be under contract within 90 days and the rest within 120 days. and i would satisfy the bill we passed in the house, which

unfortunately the senate has yet to complete action on. they've only done -- they've only tell with half of it. and for the readiness, there are many touching stories, but one that really sticks in my mind is that the secretary gary ridley of oklahoma who might visit out there in tulsa and oklahoma city pointed to the inner dispersal loop project or the loop around tulsa and he said, we began designing this in november after your cheering, the one i held in october he said. the committee is serious. we better be ready. i told my engineers i want you to take your -- were going to do in 18 months of designing for months and i want to take your design and engineering plans to church with you on sunday because if i need to well call. and they did and he did and they had it designed and they're under -- they are more than

halfway through the $76 million project, which includes 44 bridges by the way. so you've got a great story and all of your colleagues across the country and all of the state d.o.t.'s have great choice as well. now we'll move to transit. brad miller, general of the des moines regional transit authority speaking. >> thank you, mr. chairman. chairman oberstar, monitors and a testimony regarding the des moines area transit authority accused of funding for the american recovery reinvestment act which is already created jobs in central iowa and around the country while improving public transit. tart served as capital region with a service area population of just over 400,000. while dark and des moines maybe somewhat taller than some of the other transit systems are committee hazard updates from, i'm pleased to report that finds have had a profound positive impact for 16,000 daily riders. dark receive $7.8 million in

funding. not only has it been the same congress for 100% of the funds by two and that dart have 30 drawn down and cut checks for nearly half the funds getting these dollars into the economy and generating dozens of good jobs and improving the transportation services and des moines. i don't think our stories on mutual is fta has awarded more than 99% of the 8.4 billion that was made available for transit. seven i spent a third of its funds on buster clements and i was pleased to see them on our property as shown in the picture just two weeks ago. the committee has no doubt heard significant suffering of the strong need for funding to burn the structure to achieve a state of good repair. this policy is as true for small and midsize transit systems as it is for our nation aging rail systems and deteriorating bridges and highways. not only did the ra five benefit

dart into mine but they also supported replacement of more than 180 smaller buses and 17 large buses and other transit systems throughout iowa. iowa takes great pride in its expansive network of rural transit services in all 99 counties of the state. the senior citizens and job seekers living in iowa smaller towns replied on public transit are also see the advances on trim benefits of arra. we as a million dollars will build an energy-efficient expansion for appach is well underway with contractors identified or 30 full-time jobs and more than $200,000 of construction wage and benefits that authority and created high this arra funded project. recovery funds have moved dart number one capital priority as the closer to construction by supporting the design for the lead certified transit up in downtown des moines. now the design has advanced for this important facility that will create not only to wonder plus construction jobs, but it will also be a catalyst for additional job growth is start will be able to update its outdated on walnut street.

finally dart is one of the many transit systems to briefly use 10% of her allocated 70 funds for a one-time source of operating assistance. while not every system is chosen to use this flexibility, preliminary results for a nap to survey now underway show that about a third of the approximate 150 agencies respond to the survey so far reason a portion of arra funding to prevent layoffs, or maintain service. with you and her thousand dollars in arra funds for operations and to my delight with a reduction for me and my nine units that we're able to reduce and save more than 30 jobs. as a general manager of the hundred 30 bus systems it's yours truly to that makes a presentation for public main premises to the hundreds of writers who tell me they're going to lose their jobs if we cut their bus service. we just completed ten such meetings in on a cluster of one woman i met a public meeting at the forest avenue library and des moines.

ms. r. cofield was at a des moines but just real data to keep the weekend but service or she and more than 40 other single mothers live with their children. she said she and the other mothers were going to lose their jobs at the qwest documentation call center in downtown des moines if we cut the weekend bus service on dark route number five. she is the question i heard more than a dozen times at the hearing. why are you buying buses and building a transit would you commute saving routes? i try my best to explain the limits on using funds for operations versus capital expenses, but as the committee knows, when transit is your lifetime to support your struggling families are not going to be easily convinced that luckily, thanks to the allowance of the 10% of thumbs for operating systems, florentino esparza luna was able to preserve that that they rely on. certainly the question of operating assistance is a challenging one for the committee. undoubtedly many transit agencies particularly smaller agencies would accept a change

to allow them to spend more federal money on operations. however they would be for capital projects including desperately needed us replace it. but these are certainly extraordinary times. 5935% service and likely playoff of 20 bus operators of the most substantial cuts would have to make sense 1980's. we're extremely thankful to the committee for the temporary ability to use 10% of the arra funds and to strongly use in support of a temporary basis. i finished by remarks by noting without a new federal investment and long-term reauthorization bill will be difficult to maintain employment benefits that arra 30 credit for agency. needless to say we do for support in a separate to approve at the highest level investment possible for public transit. such a bill withbilized dart's finance has been strongly assist our efforts to improve transit in iowa. thank you for the opportunity to testify and look forward to your

questions. >> thank you very much, mr. miller for that senate testimony and for the before and after pictures. for the story on your remarks on operating assistance was very important for us to include that language in this bill. we extend in the authorization bill and double the funding for transit. over the six years of this bill. now i'll invite mr. jeff freeman who is the director of the public city's authority who is an extraordinary story to tell us on how they've leveraged their funds to achieve a nearly 50% increase for more of the recovery act funds allocated to minnesota and provide mainlander for communities that in many cases didn't happen at all. i will excuse myself for a few minutes for a meeting with the

speaker and invite mr. cummings to chair the hearing. be not mr. freeman, please. >> thank you come on mr. chairman, members of the committee. i name is jeff freeman the debut director of the minnesota public facilities authority. i'm here to talk about the program and our experience with the american recovery and reinvestment act funds. the minnesota public facilities authority for multiagency infrastructure financing authority that manages the clean water state revolving fund, drinking water state revolving fund, a estate infrastructure bank for transportation projects and several other infrastructure financing programs. since the clean water state revolving fund began in 1989, minnesota has received 500 of

the 7 million in federal capitalization grant, added 150 million in state matching funds and leverage those funds with their own aaa rated revenue bonds to manage 2.4 billion clean water projects throughout the state. these low interest loans have seen cities and the taxpayers over 500 or 2 million in interest charges. the us, financing us help local governments rehab and replace aging wastewater plants, upgrade systems to meet his dinners paired with collection systems for new interceptors in a variety of other projects. these are essential infrastructure projects that protect and improve water quality and also of course have a major economic impact, not only in terms of the construction jobs they create, but also in terms of providing a critical foundation for the

economic vitality of the cities that tab in the december structure. the enactment of the american recovery and reinvestment act in february 2009 provided the needed capital for these programs, but also created significant challenges for the state revolving fund program. the accountability requirements attached to said they required epa in each state to develop and implement new processes and procedures within a very short period of time. in minnesota, there's a flurry of that committee between february and april of 2009 as he we put together all the pieces they did not tour formal application for the funds in mid april. on june 8, 2009, received official notice of the funds had been awarded in by june 25, 3 weeks later, virtually all the funds had been committed for projects that were approved, bid

him under construction. formal loan agreements were then executed over the next few months. minnesota sheriff funds for clean water was approximately $82.5 billion. we awarded 44.7 million of principle for gymnasts and 17.5 for great infrastructure projects for energy and water efficiency improvements. our strategy for the arra funds focused on using the principle of forgiveness aspect in three ways with an emphasis on creating incentives to get projects moving quickly. we offer 20% principle of forgiveness to all projects on a first-come first-served basis as they were open bid them are ready to start construction. and we also directed principle of forgiveness to deal with particular affordability problems and it is incentive for the green infrastructure aspects of the projects. to get the biggest impact and find the most projects we leverage those $82.5 million in

arra funds with over 100 million not arra srf loans to finance 25 projects for a total investment of 182 million. today we've expended over 62% of the arra clean water fund and our job reports show that there've been 295,000 job hours created with a total payroll of 11.7 million. the clean water arra funds went for a variety of projects to do that to you a couple examples. the city of what's west segar financed a $16 million in improvements to their waist collections has done. the undersized system was creating raw sewage discharges to clearlake and impaired water and also sewage backups in people's basements. to prepare for the project, the city had increased their rates by 60% to an average household cost of $55 a month, but they

still would've been unable to move ahead with the project without the arra on. the city of duluth received $5 million to build a sewage overflow tank on the shores of lake superior to prevent overflows into the lake during storm events. the city of grand rapids constructed a $30 million project to relocate their pretreatment and solid facilities and incorporated energy into water conservation improvements into that project as a result of the arra funds. our experience with arra illustrates some of the features of the clean water state revolving fund that is made is successful in general. the clean water fund utilizes a project priority of us a comprehensive list that in minnesota's case we have 381 projects for about $2.1 billion. each year we get over $400 million or requests for projects to move ahead to

construction. we know that not all of those can go ahead because there will be delays for various reasons. so we purposely put more projects on less than we expect to go ahead and use our ability to sell aaa rated revenue bonds of the flexibility of that to provide funding that are of able to go ahead. when our board approved or intended use plan in the summer of 2008, at that time the economy was already slowing down and they recognize the importance of putting more projects on the list to give as many an opportunity to move ahead. because of that we put five times as many project on the list as we typically find and because of that we were well-positioned to find the arra projects when the money came through. mr. chairman and members, thank you for her your strong support

of the clean water state resulting fun. we look forward to working with you on reauthorization of the program in the future and i'd be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you very much, mr. freeman. will now hear from mr. steven wright, the vice president wright brothers construction co. inc. representing the american road and transportation builders association. welcome. >> mr. cummings, i'm steve wright, president of wright brothers construction co. in charleston, tennessee. enriched a representing the american road and transportation builders association where he served as the southern region by chairman. right brothers was founded in 1961 by my father and my uncle. our company performs a variety of highway and construction services. we currently have projects underway in tennessee, alabama, georgia and north carolina.

mr. chairman, the recovery and reinvestment act to transportation investments have been a resounding success. its impacts however cannot be truly appreciated without understanding of what our sector faced prior to the measures in the net. the u.s. transportation construction markets had been in steady decline since 2007 due to state budget, the general economy and increasing material prices. the continued recession by this bad situation worse, highway contractors laid off almost 26,000 employees in 2008 and early 2009. in fact, my company simply peaked at 2008 at 350 workers have since fallen by 34% in the private construction market. going into 2009, we face severe

severe -- reauthorization and continued state budget difficulties. not surprisingly, this made for a very sobering outlook. the one bright spot for our side or was the recovery at for the reinvestment act. written testimony for substantial information that provides exemplary pace at which these funds have been put to use in the real world impacts. i would like to highlight one point to demonstrate the recovery asked transportation investments. figure two on page four of my testimony compares the transportation contracts awards for ten months prior to the enactment of the recovery act with the reports ten months after these investments hit the marketplace. this information is significant because contract awards are a leading indicator of future construction activity. following the recovery act,

highway construction awards increased 19.4%. bridge contracts are up 14.6%. airport awards have grown 61.2%. transit contracts ballooned 216%. because there are a variety of u.s. transportation construction investment sources, it is difficult to attribute the increase of contract awards solely to the recovery act. however, it's abundantly clear that the two two-year negative transportation construction market trends began reversing itself in may of last year. this is the same point at which we saw sought recovery act funds begin supporting projects. as figure three demonstrates, this positive trend is continuing with highway contract awards growing this january while awards in january 2008 and 2900 client.

to put a real face on this data, right brothers 14 separate recovery act contract. three of these are small projects in tennessee that have allowed us to save the jobs of 15% country crew. we also have a large capacity and reconstruction projects in alabama that has allowed us to hire 19 people and say the least that many jobs. we are expected to add more people as we get further into this project. half of the project is subcontracted so we represent only a portion of it job impacts. the leadership of the alabama department of transportation has said that while this project was a priority for them, it would not -- they would not have the ability to move it forward without the recovery act. the success of the recovery act notwithstanding and construction industry continues to struggle with unemployment at record levels with great certainty about transportation amendments. i can say with all uncertainty

that as bad as things are right now, they would've been much worse without the recovery act. to sustain and build on the recovery act and reenergized the long-term growth potential of the united states, we must not lose sight with of the need to enact a six-year authorization bill at the investment levels proposed by this committee as soon as possible. thank you for your leadership on the recovery act. the recent transportation extension. your ongoing offers to deliver a multi-year reauthorization bill. i appreciate this opportunity to testify at an all be happy to answer any questions. >> thank you, mr. ray. we now. thank you very much for being with us. >> well, good afternoon, mr. cummings. my name is jeffrey wharton, president of impulse and see.

thank you for this opportunity to bring testimony regarding job creation potential impacts of the public transit investments including the american reinvestment act as a brief it is a contact hardware manufacturer located in mount olive, north carolina with 30 direct employees plus a large nationwide sub supplier base. our products, which dates back to 1888 through the ohio press company is used to support aerial wires that feed power for light rail trains, streetcars, vintage polyphenolic trip trolley buses. impulse is a marman group berkshire hathaway company and a member of the american public transportation association. i testimony today is on behalf of my company. i am pleased to report that in 2009 minute project business group 35%. and in 2010 i expect sales to

grow another 10% to 15%. i do not believe that my business would've survived without the investment and public transportation by way of the arra stimulus fun. our projects include the los angeles gold line extension, the denver west corridor line, the pittsburgh north shore connector in the portland streetcar the project among others. i recognize that most of these projects were already in the funding pipeline as new capital projects. and as the program and project authorization under safety lieu approached expiration are defined in served an important bridge between that bill in the next authorization bill and help expedite these projects. in talking with my supply partners, i have come to learn how much they have relied on a business due to the tough economy. surely gains, president of sinai castings, a woman owned business

located in greenwood south carolina told me that imposes capture businesses afloat with for the decline in the automotive industry. she was able to keep her six job supporters received by impulse and saudi funded projects. john patrick, third-generation owner for warsaw foundry in warsaw, indiana has been able to maintain 44 jobs for the transit workers correctly from impulse reared john stated that the only sales growth in his business that he's experienced has been from the transit orders. max length monthly manager for the post founder that operates in mansfield, ohio and cleveland attributes over 29% of his business to impulse. helping keep 50 to 60 employees working. and lastly, corn galvanizing company located in johnstown, pennsylvania has been able to keep 44 jobs to ripple sorters in the quick implementation of economic jobs funding for public

transit. previously, they provide mostly on commercial work and today and pulse is one of the larger accounts. i could go on and on with suppliers in texas, california, illinois, washington state and others. as you can see the tag sales have impacted businesses throughout the u.s. and the associated arra funding house directly into beaded to saving hundreds of jobs. let's face it, transportation is the fact round of the economy and public transit is an incredibly important aspect of our national service transportation system. public transit creates great jobs. i want to make substantial long-term investments to grow my business, develop new projects and technologies that will improve public transit options. but i needed long-term vision from our elected officials. i truly wish you think chairman oberstar and this committee for

transportation investment grew arra in in her efforts to pass a new service transportation authorization bill. let there be no mistake there is a class fast approaching if we do not continue to invest and recognize the immediate and invaluable benefit the public transit provides our economy, quality of life and the environment. i think the committee and i look forward to answering any questions you may have. veronique. am i close? >> yes, very. >> we thought mr. oberstar would be in the chair. he speaks french. >> i was told. >> is that close? >> close enough. >> very well. a senior research fellow at george mason university. thank you. >> mr. cummings, it's an honor to appear before you today to discuss the allocation of the recovery act funds. i am a senior research fellow at

george mason university a research based organization where i suddenty budget and tax issues. it's in that capacity that i've been tracking stimulus dollars since last february. using report data from recovery.com, an economic and political data from the bureau of labor statistic, the census bureau and others i have compiled a series of facts about stimulus spending. my interest is simply to make use of the tens of thousands of stimulus recipient report recently publisheded on recovery.gov and to put the aggregate information into a larger context. this report is a second of a series of reports publisheded on a quarterly basis as new recipient reports are released each quarter. the data presented here covers

the fourth quarter of the calendar year 2009 reports of recovery act contract and grants only. the complete data set used for this report is available for download at mercados.org. you can find the details about the methodology in my written testimony but today i will highlight some of the main results of my analysis. first, in analysis. first in the second quarter for which recovery.gov reports are available over 65,000 contracts and grants were awarded. the total spending reached $170 billion this roughly $1 billion awarded per week and a and additional $13.6 billion reportedly received over the previous quarter. this is a sharp decline compared to the 156 billion received in the previous three months. at that rate the government should be done according stimulus dollars in 2020.

second the total numbers of jobs claimed saved or created by the stimulus actually declined from last quarter shrinking from about 634,000 to a little over 597,000 koppel. this could have resulted from changes made by the white house on how to count jobs, however it goes to show how terribly difficult it is to account for the jobs created from stimulus spending. it also outlines the near impossibility to account for how many jobs were saved by the stimulus fund. third, i found for every 260, $86,000 spent one job was claimed to have been created. fourth, the $7 billion stimulus bill was if the government spend money where it is the most needed it would create jobs and trigger economic growth since we

would expect the government to invest relatively more money in district that have the highest unemployment rates and less money in districts with lower unemployment rates. controlling for the percentage of the district and construction industry which is often used as a proxy for the vulnerability to recession of the district we find no statistical correlation between all relevant on employment indicators and the allocation of funds. this suggests unemployment so far has not been the factor leading the awards. also i found no correlation between other economic indicators such as an, however you want to measure it and stimulus fund. finally, on average democratic districts received one and half as many awards as republican ones, democratic districts also received two and half times more stimulus dollars in republican districts. republican districts received smaller awards on average.

there are more democratic districts than republican district in the congress. this is why when i checked the correlation between political indicators and stimulus funds i found it was the exception of the district party affiliation which is whether the district's representation was republican or democrat there was no effective political variable and allocation dustin was once. so how much a part the revelation matter? the effective significant because of the specification of the model more confidence should be placed on the relationship between the two variables than on the quantification of the relationship. in planning colish it means while i am confident that within the district is represented by a republican or democrat matters for funding we are not sure what the weight of this particular factor was compared to others that went into the decision of spending the money such as the formula for instance. thank you very much for the

opportunity to testify before you today. i'm looking for to answering your questions. >> thank you for a much is de rugy? >> de rugy, that's fine. >> i asked the staff what you are basing the figures on and i'm curious one-third of this money went to tax cuts, right? >> the reports that i published is based on the data that is available on recovery.gov on the stimulus dollars for contracts and grants exclusively. >> okay when we talk about stimulus, almost two-thirds of the money went to two things. one, tax cuts and to, to helping states address their issues and

coley policeman and folks high eckert so i guess what you've got to talk to the actual contracts themselves. it all right. thank you for a much. >> welcome. ms. richardson, the only thing in your testimony that states have $80 million ready to go projects if additional funding were made available what do you mean by ready to go and how long would it take for those projects to actually begin construction and with the majority be repayment projects? >> by friday to go when we did the survey we find similar to what the recovery act had been and said within 120 that they could be obligated using the federal definition of obligation they could be obligated within 120 days of enactment. we've done additional analysis of that in about half of those

cuts actually be put to contract within the first 90 days following enactment, which would be even a more aggressive timeframe. the types of projects, the 80 billion is across all nodes so it's not just high weight. it's also aviation trails and transit and the other kinds of projects put in the high wayside certainly a fair amount or certain amount of it would be in resurfacing preservation of the system. but there are also projects, a mix of projects that would be expansion or creation of some new plan miles. >> you discuss a number of direct on project jobs among the states made possible by the recovery act.

has that attracted the total participation across the state's? >> i don't know if it has, but i do believe that that is being tracked as part of the reporting that we are doing even to the federal highway administration or to the gao or someone like that so that is being tracked. we always track that frankly on all of our work projects. we track the percentage that we've achieved and that data is out there for the related to the recovery act. i don't have that number in my head but it's available. >> thank you. mr. freeman, have other states provide principal forgiveness tells you have done to your knowledge? >> [inaudible] >> keep your face up. >> yes, all states have used the principal from this it went to the clean water state revolving

fund is required for a minimum of 50% to be provided as principal forgiveness. each state has done that a little differently. in our state we have affordability criteria and we used state funds in the past to deal with affordability problems. that's where we directed most of the principal forgiveness' funds. i think that is similar experience with other states. but each state -- that is the strength of the clean water state revolving fund as each state has flexibility to design the criteria and procedures to best fit their needs. >> do you know what has been the experience of other states with that process? do you have any idea? >> i don't have the numbers from other states. i know that all states did meet the one year requirement to have

the fund is under contract and under construction within the one year period of time and as part of that have met all of the principal forgiveness' requirements as well. >> is this something you've done in the past? >> we have with some state programs we have provided some additional subsidies for communities that have affordability problems. we've found that for smaller communities in particular the cost for waste-water treatment infrastructure can easily go over 50, 60, $70 a month per household and at that rate communities just can't afford to move ahead with projects without some additional subsidies so we've done that with some state funds the principle forgiveness through the era of funding gives another tool in the significant share of those funds to be able

to meet those needs. >> mr. miller, you're indicating in your testimony that you use 10% of your aubuchon recovery at funds for one time. spec what will happen when this infusion is no longer there available? >> that is a good question. we are hopeful that the economy will start to improve in some of our other sources of revenue will improve but we would be supportive of additional funds for of stimulus dollars should they be allocated in the same way. >> you also indicated that to purchase new buses with the recovery act fund; historic? >> that's right. >> and no purchases have in

common with recover the funds. you said that you've taken delivery of new buses but have other transit agencies experienced delays in getting buses in large number of orders the place? do you know? >> we are very lucky in that we have already received delivery just two weeks ago, our bosses and other systems have not received there's, but even under normal times it takes a year to year and half so i have not heard of any particularly long delays in receiving buses and they were already on the street driving around des moines on yellow right now. >> finally let me ask i just have to questions and then i will -- i and the chairman will take over. what are the transportation

budget in 2010 and the state's able to afford to maintain their existing systems or is even maintenance suffering this economic environment? >> mr. cummings this game for most familiar with this tennessee and redefault and to basically maintenance only program. they have almost no funding available for new capacities. >> so they basically maintain. >> that's right. >> are there any specific changes to the metropolitan planning process that you are advocating for the next reauthorization? >> i would encourage anything you can do to simplify the process. takes too long to get a project from creation to contract where we actually begin to work on that. >> will i will tell you and i know he will tell you about this but our chairman has been trying to figure out how to do that, how we can go about doing what you just said it's not been easy

but we are trying to figure it out and the reauthorization that he is proposing and he will be pleased with some of the things in there because it was a long way toward what you are talking about. >> to extend the conversation you just had with mr. cummings, the chairman of the subcommittee coast guard. we established in this bill that has been reported from the subcommittee program of project and office project expediting in

the federal highway and federal transit administration. u.s intolerable but it takes three years to do under the current all a simple million over labeling and grinding the surface of the road by reprocessing and putting it back in place or 14 years from idea to writer should for a transit project. that is we too long. bond issues from now, costs escalate, they're have been some experiences of up to 50% cost increases over the time of the transit project. it is just intolerable. we have to end a sequential process of in the police refuse and turn that on that side and have these reviews done concurrently with the transformation we spell-out in this legislation and craft for the future of transportation. do those reviews concurrently to

transit projects, new starts and extensions of existing operations in three years instead of 14 years. the system we have today's new start, slow start and no start. that is not serving the need of transportation or reducing congestion in america's major metropolitan areas. we have to move much faster. and put people to work in projects under way much faster and we will do that with this legislation and the tda has agreed contribution to our process to the legislative language he is the mikey marine corps drill sergeant helping us get this done. since we are keen to get this bill moving again we reported this document from subcommittee

in june of to tell nine. -- 2,000 line. the administration said they wanted 18 months and i said that's -- delay the enemy of progress. that is way too long. we have to move fast. and in the stimulus we have shown ashto, the contracting agencies, the assisted contractors, road and transportation builders and building trades and the truck drivers have all shown that given the of deadlines they can perform and meet those deadlines and put projects to work, people to work and projects under way in much shorter time frame than we've done in the past so we are taking those lessons and incorporating them into the future of transportation. but we also need a follow-on to

the stimulus. there are 30 states that have notified this committee that they will be unable to provide the full 20% match under the eda 20 federal highway program because the revenues are down because the tax revenues are down because the gas tax revenues are down and those states represent 40% of the population of the united states. the associated general contractors did this survey of the top four record firms and can back to the committee with a report that they, when stimulus runs out the expect to have 40 to 50% layoffs because the private sector financing for the trade calls the vertical projects isn't coming back. investors simply aren't making the investments that they were making. mike fervor told me last year

that 2007 and 2008 the nearly 80% of their work was in the private sector. is that right, ms. fisk? >> i believe it's close to that number, yes. >> and by last summer because of the deterioration of the economy, financial meltdown, most of those general contractors ordering 60 plus% of their work in the public sector. we have to sustain the existing jobs and investment that carry that so that the rest of the economy can catch up and the private sector investments that had been made in the past can continue to be made in the future. we have to get through the summer. this is one more summer of stimulus will set the stage and move the country for word.

but unfortunately while we passed our legislation to fully fund the state 20% share of the federal highway program in december the senate hasn't done that. the only passed an extension of cuent law through the end of this fiscal year and three additional months. that is not sufficient, that is not good service to the country -- every witness we have had over these past 12 months of hearings have said we need an additional investment in transportation and other infrastructure projects to carry us thru until the private sector has made its recovery and then we will see a return.

meanwhile we have got permanent investments and improvements for the future of our transportation system and waste water treatment system. now, mr. freeman, you and terry coleman have done outstanding work as i said at the outset, 25 year professionals who've been out this program for a long time what lessons learned from the stimulus would you offer for the committee that we could apply to the future of the state revolving loan fund that's already passed the house again is awaiting action in the samet? >> thank you, mr. chairman for those kind words. the clean water state revolving fund is of course our unique in that in the first of all fees are cities that are building these projects and providing the

financing rather than doing direct contracting. the clean water revolving funds operate from a comprehensive priority list so there's always projects in the pipeline that are in various stages of development. the fact that these are revolving loan funds rather than street grants means there is an ongoing stream of repayments, the money is always revolving, so projects are continually moving from the processing being funded and the additional federal capital state and matching funds allows us to leverage those funds and generate additional lending capacity. but the key i think is that for the cities that are developing these projects and moving them through the process they need a steady and predictable funding. they need to know the money will be there when their projects are

ready and they need to have a clear sense of what the requirements will be. so we are very much in favor of the proposed reauthorization of the program. we are a little trouble with the 2010 appropriation because it imposed some additional requirements that were not predictable and became somewhat disruptive and difficult for the cities that were already in the pipeline projects that were already did and some cases already under construction, and so that is a difficult way to fund the process and certainly reauthorization bill that will again restore the kind of predictability and the steady funding for the program will be very much supportive of that and we appreciate your efforts on that and we will do anything we can to help.

islamic how were you able to manage the balance of loan funds with grand funds? srf is a loan program and we provided a partial -- part of the funds as grant money and part as a loan funds and you were able to, not just your agency was able to leverage those dollars to create more funding, including state funds from the minnesota legislature and you were able to leverage those in to significantly greater investment diem but otherwise have been the case. what did you do, you had creative financing going there. >> minnesota is 1i think there are approximately 35 or so

states that operate their clean water revolving funds as leveraged programs which in simple terms what that means is we are using the federal capitalization funds and the state match as the seed money and then selling in the case of minnesota power triple-a-rated revenue bonds, they are not backed by the state, they are minnesota public facilities authority bonds are backed by the repayment stream of all of the loans that we have made previously and so using that leveraging ability allows us to give a larger number of projects on the priority list to kind of give them the green light to move through the engineering design work, the approval process and then we can have the money available when their projects are ready rather than of those projects waiting for us

to tell them okay now you can start. they are always moving and always developing those projects and are able to use leveraging to have the money available when they need it. >> to a few states have a rating system such as the minnesota public facilities authority where if i recall right you rank the projects 13263 on the waste water treatment side and then what is it 112, 113 on the drinking water site? bayh need locally and readiness to go to bid as local financing capability in place. two other states have similar rating systems? >> yes, mr. chairman. all states operate from that priority list that's part of the

requirement and the framework of both the clean water and drinking water state revolving funds. in our case those numbers of increased quite a bit since i think the last time we provided you a list we now have over to wonder 80 projects on the clean water list. for about $2.1 billion the drinking water was to think as close to 300 projects as well so the needs are certainly there. we've rink those projects actually we don't, our partners with the minnesota pollution control agency ranks those clean water projects based on environmental and public health factors so that is the ranking that we follow and we work with communities to identify the ones that are -- have completed the preliminary planning work and will be ready to go to construction and that's the best we take and develop the intent

used plan list from. if they reach a plan were the planning is done if they can then move on and we will put them in a fumble range on the intended use plan and have the money available when the projects are ready. >> very good. in our reauthorization of the state revolving loan program we require states to develop management plans ranking of projects and develop long-range programs of investment and using the criteria you just cited we hope the senate will act on that legislation that $15 billion authorization over the next five years. i think it is far less than what the nation needs but it's

responsible funding and we know that it will be fully offset. ms. richardson in the surface transportation program we have a requirement for two parts, projects to get underway in 90 days and others in 120 days. and initially states d.o.t. said that will be too difficult for us to meet. but in the end of the state dot have far exceeded their original -- underestimated their own ability to perform. what lessons are there to be drawn for the future of transportation from your stimulus experience? >> a couple come to mind based on your comments. one, i think that we cannot

underestimate how much work there is that needs to be done in the transportation infrastructure in this country so when we go to states and other jurisdictions and say what projects do you have there is a considerable backlog and a lot of need out there so i think there will always be a pool of very good projects for us to choose from whether it's for our regular funding for any special funding. the second lesson is the one that you highlight and that is maybe we underestimated our own of the p.l.o. but but you know you're always concerned when you hear time frames like that because we are used to launder time frames but i think when asked to change the paradigm and look at things a little differently we were all able to come through and deliver in the tight time frame. the 120 days to obligations everybody mad.

i know there were discussions about follow along stimulus in the jobs bill but was concerned that have language that said 90 days to contract but in fact when we did a survey of states to find out what other ready to go projects were not there and identified 9800, over 9000 projects that $90 billion told around half of those could actually get to contract within 90 days so i think we've learned we can with the kind of work of the pent-up demand and the kind of work that needs to be done just to preserve the system from crumbling but there is certainly enough work out there that we could do it quickly whether it is 120 based obligation or 90 days to contract. >> those are important lessons learned and the program of the project expediting or the office of project expediting the that we will include in this bill that's been already reported from the subcommittee will take

those lessons learned and apply them and expedite the process so that we are not doing multiple reviews and sequence the delay the project delivery. not to set aside any environmental concern or other permitting requirements of a host of government agencies, townships and sioux were boards and the environmental protection agency and national trust for historic preservation have a permanent responsibility but they can be done concurrently rather than sequentially. >> absolutely. when we looked at that in our state in the past decade we turned to be can do process. it was to do exactly that. to see where in the process we could have things running in parallel rather than sequentially so that we would take considerable chunks of time

out of the lengthy process. >> that's where we want to go for the future. what is the situation in iowa. i mentioned 30 states notified the committee in iowa was one of those. your highway funding prospects are looking better or the same as this year? >> like all states the economy is affecting our revenue streams both in terms of our revenue at the state level comes from fuel taxes and then also fees on new vehicles purchased on preservation fees and time of purchase. when the economy isn't as strong people are not buying as many vehicles were driving them as much so we certainly have a lag in revenues from what we were

projecting but i believe that our legislature of the state level two years ago took on the hard task of looking for additional state revenue and passed a piece of legislation called time 21 that is bringing more revenue at the state level in two transportation fund and the erroneous tax fund and its ramping up over about seven or eight years so our legislature has put in place something that will bring additional state funds and gradually over the next few years and i think that will help us have an edge for federal funds but it's touch and go and there's other states it is certainly already a problem. >> that's why we need to get this bill passed, the long term funding mechanism. >> i could not agree more. >> and additional babies six months stimulus but also

sycophant for more revenue. in this legislation be expressly prohibited project specific designations known as high priority projects. each state has a ranking process the fallout so you've made selections on projects based on the readiness that is meeting the criteria of the act which is through acquisition, environmental impact, design and engineering to the final design, ready to go to bid provided the money was available. is that the process on the well and other states have used? >> yes and there were other criteria we paid attention to for the civil economically distressed areas and making sure we identified those and try to overlay that on our selection process making sure we had a good blend of projects

geographically urban and rural and all states pay attention to those things in the bill. we are very fortunate in iowa the process we traditionally use that we were able to use for the recovery act is one that's culbert for four local partners, the metropolitan planning organizations and regional planning agencies. we already work in concert with them and they help identify projects. we try to have a little bit more local input into helping to define some of the projects. that process serves very well and it is what i felt helped iowa jump the gun. they had already identified projects and we had hours of the state level and that meant we had the priority list of projects ready to go when you passed the bill and we would be the same situation before. we've already done that in case there's another stimulus we made sure we've got the priority list ready to go.

>> that is wonderful. that's encouraging. every state dot director i talked to come and it had a conversation of leased with half may be more than half, 30 of them are in the same situation. mr. miller, what is the average age prior to stimulus funding what is the average age of your fleet? >> german oberstar, we had a very old fleet. i think the average was somewhere around nine years of the typical bus left in 12th and we are thankful for the stimulus dollars because those, combined with the annual appropriation regular federal dollars, we were able to buy in this one order that is arriving this month won six of the fleet replaced about 80% of the buses that were over it's been fantastic. spec the also provides, the new

buses provide passenger capacity? >> not capacity, but the breakdown on the side of the highway which affects our passengers. certainly one-fifth as often or they cost half as much to maintain as the older buses, so they were all in the system. >> just as the highway site replacing pavement, making a better ride and drive for people on the transit side better equipment, lower-cost to operate and long versus life for the equipment. >> not to mention the environmental benefits mclean engines and we even have a heiberg bus so the newer buses are beneficial on that area, too. >> terrific. thank you. >> mr. wright, this does the

future funding give you concern that is what i said a moment ago about the general contractor's been concerned that the private sector investments aren't recovering as all would have liked and the funding continuing perhaps even winding down from some of the stimulus by the middle of the sour, what is the outlook from the contractor's site from the tda site? >> it is exactly like what you described earlier. our -- am i company's balance a private versus public work has gone from 5050 to probably 8020 now, 80% being public work. the short term with the the federal transportation bill being extended and extended and

extended it gives us no faith or believe that the work load is so we haven't bought any equipment the last couple of years. our capital investment is down dramatically. it's gone from the ability to plan and your work looking ahead to just reactionary to what is required when you have a six month extension it's hard to make a six year investment. >> and that has caterpillar were made and other equipment manufacturer is concerned and the matter of concern and astonishment to me that early this time last year united states had developed a new export product used construction equipment. we are filling up containers, backhoes and d8 cats, front-end loaders to china and india where there are making investments in the stimulus programs.

china committed 9% of its gross domestic product to the stimulus of $540 billion limit to highway airport real and waste-water treatment projects. they are on track to complete and 820-mile rail line from beijing to shanghai which is the distance of boston to richmond and east coast of the united states. 822 miles. he will be built to travel the distance at for hours with to wondered with 20-mile an hour steel on steel passenger rail. they've made the investment and this time next year they will be full ridership. that is 12 million people in

beijing and 16 million in shanghai. the european community has committed $1.4 trillion over a 20 year per go to upgrade its aviation water passenger rail and highway infrastructure including building a canal to link the north sea to the black sea that's 2,000 miles across the heart of europe to move goods more efficiently, more effectively with less environmental impact and up lower-cost to the shippers and consumers. we are falling behind the. they plan to include 7,200 miles of passenger line in europe. president obama put $8 billion for passenger rail in this country but it's a drop in the bucket compared to what the

european community is doing in addition to their already extensive and successful programs. so here we come back to the point. other countries have made these investments. they are stimulating their economies. they are having great short-term as well as long-term investment in pact. now you mentioned concern about buying equipment. what amortization period do you have to look at as a contractor for these pieces of equipment that i mentioned above are not inexpensive? you don't just buy it on your credit card, you have to figure out how you're going to pay for that long term, right? >> you did not put a million dollar crime on your credit card. we much rise most of our stuff on about 60 months. so it is approximately the life of the highway bill. >> very interesting.

so you really love to see wonder term investment in stability and continuity of funding. >> absolutely. we have a conversation in my office about should we buy to machines or grant them. we only have 90 days worth of work for them. it's hard to make up a five-year commitment to that process when you cannot see further than that with appropriate a bill in place but at least be the to have the opportunity to compete with a market that tuna was there and would give you the faith to go ahead and pull the trigger for lack of a better word. >> we have seen also in the stimulus period is the bids have been coming in 25% below the design because there's so much competition marketplace but the material costs even have dropped in the u.s. during this recession period.

was that your experience as well? >> yes it is. there seems to be three to four times as many bidders on project as people move from the public sector, from the private sector to the public sector and the bidding process and margins are very low. >> now, ms. de rugy [inaudible] [speaking in french] [laughter] [speaking in french]

thank you very much. >> i'm not sure my mom is happy about this. >> we will translate this leader for the reporters in. president sarkozy will be in the united states shortly. he, too, had a 47 [speaking in french] 47 billion year rose which is roughly $60 billion, and their recovery plan has created jobs, has stimulated the economy and has moved to france ahead but to make a good deal of reference in your testimony about party

affiliation and political variables but you must be talking about something other than the programs of our committee. >> the way i looked up the numbers, i only use the data from recovery.gov and compare them to other government data and then i ran regressions and the spending i'm talking about covers the transportation money so $10 billion exactly of that data that i looked at was spent by the department of transportation. >> these correlations, party affiliations, public variables and so on surely have to be happenstance rather than deliberate. >> the only thing i can tell you

for sure is when you look at the ridge regressions we can tell that whether the district is represented by a democrat or republican matters for the funding. what i cannot tell you is how much this factor is influenced the decision compared to other factors such as the formula of unemployment in the states even the lack tralee my findings find the money doesn't seem to be allocated and guided by the level of unemployment. >> in our legislation we specifically directed as ms. richardson said that priority be given to areas of high unemployment as measured by the economic development administration of the u.s. department of commerce which is a map of the united states by

county in which a the eda a certifies the unemployment level for each county and updates it monthly and we wanted those dollars to go to the areas of highest unemployment. the areas of economic distress and secondly we wanted an equitable distribution of dollars so model of the money would be used in the metropolitan areas such as minneapolis st. paul or chicago in the illinois or los angeles in california. they could consume the whole state's entire stimulus allocation in one major metropolitan area that would not be right. and state departments of transportation are the ones who've made those allocations and they've distributed the funds as as richardson said they spent a good deal of time assuring projects went to the areas of highest unemployment. so it be interested to see the backup detail.

>> all of the data is available for download at the [inaudible] exactly for that reason because we wanted to be absolutely transparent. as we put not only the data, the raw data with the regression that we used and the result of the analysis. the data that we used for the unemployment, so we have used to sorts of data from the first report that we did was for the first quarter of the money allocated. we used on employment levels in the district's and felt there was no correlation. the second time or not dr. lee informed by after talking with economists who were just doing economic tricks of the time, they suggested that a better measure and a better way to assess our unemployment level is to actually look at a variation of unemployment between the time to actually get not only the

sins of the unemployment level and absolute terms but also the hit and hurt each given district was by the recession and again, the bureau of labor statistics and census bureau data, these are totally official data and again no matter what type of unemployment indicator we found we find absolutely no correlation. and found, if i remember correctly, the coefficient that we use make it almost looked as if it were done intentionally even though i know it is not the case. but it was quite stunning because i assumed considering the rational behind the stimulus bill that we would find strong correlation and we tested in many different ways.

we used different methods and you can actually -- you don't even have to go to the website. i would be happy to even extended to you. >> the would be helpful. you did this on the basis of the congressional districts. >> congressional districts. >> my congressional district for example is the size of the eastern seaboard from here to connecticut. >> we contract from the size that is what regression analysis is is to control the size >> to control the whole state. schenectady's regressions, this is what we do come a regression analysis rather than just comparing numbers it's because it controls for all of the variations that it could be. >> the funding in minnesota is controlled by the department of transportation under republican governor who if he were attempting to learn to become manipulate would have avoided my district. but that is clearly not the

case. he did not put his hand into it. he did not involve himself. i don't know of any other states where governors have attended -- there is no evidence on the record that there had been manipulation. >> i'm not judging intent. i'm looking at the facts and this report was done and it's called stimulus fact to provide facts about the stimulus to you and members of congress, so you could actually decide what's happening. >> we would be concerned if there were manipulation of the state level of the funds >> my data doesn't look at intent. the only thing it looks at is results. and again, this data is based on the data we found reported by recipients of the awards and is posted on recovery.gov. >> thank you. it's an interesting correlation

and i would like to receive the entire -- i will review it myself. [speaking in french] >> [speaking in french] >> [speaking in french] >> [speaking in french] >> [speaking in french] >> after that love affair in french, for the future of transportation funding which is

in the big obstacle in getting this moving from time immemorial that is 1956 and forward we have the federal highway trust fund. in 1956 the congress enacted 3-cent user fee 3 cents in 1956 represented 10% of the cost of fuel which was 30 cents a gallon in 1982, president ronald reagan signed a 5-cent increase in the user fee. the time he said this 5 cents is budget neutral. the users of the system are paying for their use of the system. and this represents the equivalent of two shock

absorbers in the year on your car. fast forward to 2009 and we have the president of the united states whoses i made a commitment in the campaign that raise your taxes and some say we can't raise taxes in time of a recession but and 1958 the republic rhodes came back to the congress and said that 3 cents isn't sufficient, we need another penny increase of the user fee. the congress passed it. the house passed it on a voice vote. you can't pass the prayer on a voice vote today. we need to revive the spirit of investment in america's future.

just as i cited a minute ago the committee has committed a trolley and $400 billion for their future to remain competitive in the world marketplace. as china and japan has done, as india is doing with the golden try and will $25 billion highway program and we have to move the goods more efficiently in this marketplace ups did a survey of their operations nationwide for every five minutes delayed their trucks experience they lose $100 million. overtime charges for costs for their truck drivers in late delivery fees for their customers in the minneapolis st. paul metropolitan area independent group today's survey of the cost of ingestion.

among the studies was general mills for