responsibility when in such a time arrives. >> as the united states proceeds to drive down its armed forces presence what our jordon is concerns of assessments and the implications of this drawdown of jordan's own policy with objectives? >> how many people are watching this? [laughter] >> c-span is viewed by millions. >> thank you very much. [laughter] this is one of the fundamental quandaries that faces is with any pose conflict situation. how do extract of the international community from the situation in which it

over a long time is dependent of that international ever. it has to be done judiciously and professionally and naturally we all went to see iraq three it is pernicious influences on the outside. but one false understanding with the iraqi government itself has a say in this and they should be heard of they believe more time as required. the u.s. are probably be understanding of that. but it is a very delicate exercise and so far has been handled very well. . .

at the beirut summit, incidentally i would chairing the arab group in new york in march of 2002. and within a 1048 hours of the issuance of the arab peace initiative, we have the passage of resolution urging 97 in the security council, which was presented by the united states and first mentions the vision of

two states living side-by-side in security. and so we believe they're there's sort of an intimate connection between that vision and with the arab world has offered israel. i think it's rather regrettable but at the birth of the initiative pleiades series of events occurring in israel and then within the territories it made it difficult to initiate the contents. only one wonders what will happen at the israeli government at the time returned to us with questions and sent to us, what do you mean by further claims of that what you mean by mutual security guarantees? and i think the europe leader would've kenefick 92 furnish some answers and make it clear to israelis would mean like this. unfortunately there was no such

sort of dialogue that could be embroidered into something. and so, we icings stand to be told that we could've done better and i think there's a general appreciation we could have. however, having said that, no other state has with john from the promotion of the initiative. and i think that must be appreciated. and so we hope that at some stage again and it's not too late that the israeli public eye of march would appreciate the contents of its. one here is from speaking to various israelis that the public in israel is so blinded by the reference to 194, with the refugees are concerned, that they miss the fact that their words agreed to aren't in the text. and of course the final analysis, when you look at the

final status talks for the tax to be held on final status issues, proximity or otherwise, whatever comes to the discussions has to be survivable, both in israel and palestine. even though, there's disbelief i think that people have said that israel was left alone with the palestinians and you have the u.s. sydney that the europeans and the quartet and yet all of us they are coming that somehow we would bludgeon israel into accepting physician he couldn't tsang or congress if the palestinians were left alone with just the u.s. and israelis, that they would be beaten into positions that certainly couldn't accept. the natural factors that can be either because the product of negotiations must either win passage and knesset or referendum in israel and likewise in palestine. and they would have to come up with a win-win for both sides.

and it's not impossible to do that and we clearly hoped that it's something that can happen and then of course we embroidered the arab peace initiative into the larger tapestry and see peace between all 22 arab states. >> three questions that touch on nuclear issues: can you comment on jordan assessments of the role of nuclear power and its future economic developments, including desalination of water. and address the implications of the scenario of israel attacking iran over the nuclear issue. what are the implications for jordan and the broader region from your perspective? >> you know, listening to your first question, i strongly

suspect can from one of my stuff staff at the embassy. [laughter] so i will deal with them later. now, as many of you know, jordan is very heavily dependent on imported petroleum products for it to meet its security or its energy security. 96% of our energy is in the form of petroleum products imported from the outside. and at the same time, we have discovered recently that we have about 118,000 tons of recoverable uranium in jordan, some 2% of perhaps the world's uranium reserves. so it only stands to make sense that as a country with no oil effectively, and yet the availability of uranium that we need to establish some sort of

energy policy that builds on this as well as other renewable energy. in 2007, in terms of our usage, the per capita i think was -- it was 4700-megawatts of electricity that we were using. this was likely to decline the per capita likely to decline and we're looking to set it to reactors. one sort of a research reactor of about a 100 make a wet standard. and the other one a larger one which would get to about 1000 megawatts. which will provide essentially 20% of our energy needs in combination with other technologies. we are in discussion with a great many countries around the international community and with the iaea and we're confident that this will move forward

quite smoothly. now the second question is i have to add is completely and totally unrelated to the first, so i don't want to bite into the right-field putting them together that somehow believe there can did. i can't speak for what the israeli government thinks or will do. we have always supported the initiative put forward by presidents nor far up of age at other nuclear weapons, but more particularly weapons of mass description are exceeded to all open measures some treaties where these weapons are concerned. clearly at the region that has the potential to be very unstable and we just don't believe that weapons should exist in this region of that sort at all. and we hope that through a combination of measures that the

perceived -- the perceived understanding on the part of many in the international community about iran has the desire to recognize its nuclear capabilities is something that can be dealt with through measures short of violence. we just simply i think can't afford to have another round of hostilities in the region that sell under stress i think from everything else that we have to deal with. and >> you played a major role in the founding of the international criminal court. how would you about uap effectiveness of the court in its early stages and what needs to be tension the international criminal court for effect this? >> you know, the 20th century saw more people lose their lives

through violence than i think all previous countries combined. and were it not for this new and dictation, i don't see how we can possibly imagine that the next century will not be as bloody as the past century. and when we look at the international criminal court, essentially what it is is a court of last resort, it sits in the background. in the course has two governments, you have your constitutions, you have your penal codes and in respect of genocide crimes against humanity, war crimes, which i negotiating the definition of them the grounds for the exercise of jurisdiction, all of that you must sort of conference if there is a national of your country who is suspected of involvement in one of these crimes and u.s.a. government must take measures to

investigate and if need be prosecute. so it very much that there is a reminder, as the permanent conscience to governments, do your job. if you do your job and there stood before the court to come and be involved. if you don't do your job, were not going to let those who are suspected of committing massive outrageous of bleeding or escaping the fact that they must fit charm. one thing that is not often appreciated is that you have 111 countries now better parts of the court. it means that 111 heads of state, heads of government, parliamentarians, members of the armed forces, that every single individual has put themselves under the jurisdiction of an international court. in other words, they have forfeited the sovereign rights, the customary rate to sovereign immunity. there is not -- there simply is

no equivalent to industry where you have such a voluntary surrender of rights for such a treaty. i mean, it's a step so enlightened that it has no parallel and it's often not remarked upon. and so i believe that it's an inexorable advance that we will simply see it grow from strength to strength. indeed, the argument i think with many is that you should sit with your government and explain to them that it's better to join the court now than to wait until you're the final country come the last country 30, 40 years from now because what possible can be accrued from being outside the system cannot and not a system building it up. but it's something i think is very necessary. for any period of transition. it will take time before we fully feel the effects of what it means to have an international criminal court,

but i'm very confident and i should finally say that i had the privilege of sharing the negotiations on the crime of aggression and the supreme international crime has identified in the burg and we had our latest one last week and i was very satisfied with the way the international community was dealing with this issue. >> what are the pros and cons of the palestinians declaring a state at this time? why have they not done so until now? what are the pros and cons? >> is a good russian, but i think it's one that really should be directed to the ambassador who was the observer here in washington more than me. i am not in a position to really make a call if a judgment of it. one assumes that when we believe the time is right to take a

decision or the decision. >> what interests and responsibilities does jordan retail in the holy places in jerusalem? >> yes, we have one of the responsibilities regarding particularly on the higher-end and this is recognized in the treaty that we also have with israel. whenever repairs, for instance, were needed to parts of the area adjacent to the heart of jordanian engineers used to be able to go in the a few years ago that we prepared. we have a presence there. as of late though, ordination with the israelis on these issues has proven to be quite difficult and we're trying to resolve them both directly and

by virtue of the assistance of the united states and other countries. >> could you address further the process of democratization in jordan and the prospects for jordanians i like dean their prime minister? >> yes, this is something of course that we have been grappling with for many years. as you know, abdulah in 1957 to move in that direction, they proved itself to be premature and are judgment because we were still -- weaver still a very poor country and so prone to outside influence and it led directly to the pronunciation of the eisenhower doctrine in 1957 and president eisenhower was very firm about the interference by different countries and

different internal affairs of others. since then we have been moving back into the direction of opening up the country to greater participation. his majesty abdulah is very committed to this end we have now found the decentralization of jordan to break it up into what for no other better worded it, sort of some federal unit where local -- the local units would have their own projects and you would be wrecking monster ball to the people in terms of the provision of services. and then we also built build up over time the expertise in the enact the legislation, such that our parliaments can be fully active in this regard. i think there was a great deal of concern when the last parliament convened that they were too many bills that were left unconsidered from the

government believed strongly that parliament should at least look at them. if it didn't like them, then it could always return them, but to leave them unattended with something to raise a great deal of concern. so we are moving in the right direction. we're confident i doubt that aired them in constant touch with many of the democracy think tanks that are vigilant in this area and we have a very healthy discussion about these issues. >> had you evaluate china's efforts to play a growing political diplomatic and economic role in the arab world? >> you know, i wish i knew more about this, you know, it's a part of the world which has long excited interest by many a great power. china of course is a country with whom we do business. if a country is growing stature and aging together with india

and in both respects i think we have a very personable relationship with them and we believe it's important that they engage. i was a furor years ago this parenthetically attacked by the then secretary general of the u.n. to travel to the congo and undertake a study for the u.n. and i traveled there and found to my delight and astonishment there was a chinese battalion in the middle of the congo and that they were doing exceedingly well. and so obviously china is more intense and engaging with the rest of the world, whether it be commercially or the involvement of humanitarian affairs. and i think that is largely to be welcomed. >> you made reference in your remarks to the experience of breakthroughs in the bosnian crisis. what lessons were learned? what mistakes were made that would be applicable to resolving

the arab-israeli conflict from jordan's perspective? >> while the interesting thing about the bosnia crisis if there was a gentleman by the name of justice goldstone who in april of may 295 announced that he was going to investigate what event heritage and a gentleman by the name of stennis suit. and immediately through the u.n. into a state of disarray because the feeling was here we have the intrusion of a different sort of elements. with a justice element and it returned to derail whatever it is that we thought sort of inescapably bound up with the possibility of peace. and that is if you couldn't talk to these people because subsequently they were going to be indicted him how could you

possibly arrive at peace? but what goldstone did was by contributing to this in effect he forced us to change and adapt to his reality and we had to do that. of course we couldn't escape the turmoil in the disaster that soon after that everything began to change. and i think likewise broadly speaking when you look at the international criminal court, is created no shortage of discomfort for many topical is because it's presenting itself as a check on the latitude of behavior that deviously was thought to be impossible by certain people surrounding the club and now i think it's quickly and circumscribed by the court. in terms of the middle east, again, it's the belief that there is nothing that is impossible where peace is

concerned if the desire is there an exhaustion is plentiful. in the goodwill is evident, then you hope that the combination of circumstance will bring us to this point. there is an element of faith or luck involved. i have often remarked that countries do not negotiate treaties. it is individuals who so happen to represent those countries. you could take five countries, put them around the table were sent there -- ask them to send their a their representatives and put them in a table and asked them to negotiate something to be adapted and you may well find they can't agree in a single common. he then changed as five individuals, same government, change individuals and suddenly within five minutes everything has been negotiated and agreed to. so you needn't element of luck, but there's so much individual sort of -- so much of a road for the individual negotiation that if we have sort of a fortuitous,

nation of peoples, then i think we can do this quite quickly. >> would you comment on the status of the role of women from an education economic and political standpoint both in your country of jordan and in the entire arab world? >> deary me. >> i had to put that winning. [laughter] >> you know, we like to take pride that i authenticators we have seen jordan move forward. we had to put a much greater awareness of the role of women, the role that women need to play. i think like most societies, it displays many obvious when you look at this underscores, out of the top 20 students, the vast majority are women and the same can be said of our scores at

university. the highest in the highest scoring in the most gifted students are women. but then that does not translate itself into having a large percentage of women in our workforce. and so we must better understand why this is the case. some of its cultural and ensure that we can overcome this. we must also, i think, to more. and your majesty has been exceptional in this area. two more to understand the pressures on women. we have now shelters for battered women, hotlines, means by which we can understand the problems are occurring. i think more and more people insured and understand they guess the what exists in the family showed line assembly, but there are limits. if you are abusing your children, that the courts could themselves intervene. and i think all of this is good. but broadly speaking, if i can

also make a moment i was chewing the consultative committee for the u.n. development fund for women and activists for three years. and it is very sad for me to notice that in many of the foreign where we discussed these issues, whether it be the commission for on the status of women which obviously with the convention of discrimination against women, you notice that by and large the delegates are women themselves. and really the target audience in any country are young men and we need more young men to take up the cause of young women. and also we need to ensure that gender equality is not something that is trumpeted just around the time of elections when those aspiring for office seek a vote of women and will say all kinds of things and after the elections you'll see very

little. so i think we need to better appreciate all of this. finally i should just say that a few months ago i met a very distinguished delegation from argentina, women, lady senators. and we sat across the table in a very impressive they decide to me, mr. ambassador, you know, we come from a country that believes in gender equality and this was her opening line. so i thought my goodness, what does she think, you know, where does she think i come from? so i said, madam senator, i must respectfully disagree because i come from a country that does not believe in gender equality. and so you could see the temperature in the room rising. and i looked at her and i said i firmly believe the superiority of women. [laughter] and we had a very pleasant

conversation after that. [laughter] >> mr. ambassador, this question is with regard to the joint economic sounds between jordan and israel that came after the peace agreement between the two countries. i believe her predecessor, ambassador kohler, was fully involved in those dynamics. why does one not hear anything further about them? what are the successes, what are the shortcomings? and have they been effect did since the israeli invasion of gaza 14 months ago. >> basically still much operational. perhaps because of that they haven't made the news. but they have given us firsthand knowledge of how certain industries operate, which hitherto we were not exposed to.

and for instance, the industry quickly set up investment in jordan and make your ics were fully accurate. and we thought our export job from something that was really quite this to something quite exceptional. podesta alluded in your comments, this was a new for us. for instance, were under the impression that the industry would better monitor its own performances in respect of local laws, where labor rates were concerned. and we realized this was not necessarily the case. we were rather naïve in this and that we needed to work with industry to ensure that labor laws were implemented. we also had to adapt our labor laws to take that into account. would like to think although we were earlier on sort of centered

by the national labor committee, we like to think that jordan is a vocal for a country that has responded to these allegations. and we did so quite quickly and we didn't translate the allegation aside or deny it. we said we fully agree. we understand we have a problem. this is new to us. help us. and we released out high and low to friendly countries and i think we've largely put our house in order, both msn for factories and the percentage, a large percentage of factories in jordan have subscribed and this is all very good. and we will never remove all complaints but i think the amount the jordanian government gets what then is to be tremendous. >> what was the reaction in jordan after the jordanian suicide bomb that killed the cia agents as that was a jordanian agent a few months