credible man these days on the buying of gold. isn't it amazing that he has so many followers and the company selling of gold that is using him to sell for gold find san incredible in doing that. i would love to hear your comment on that one. ..

and this happened to be murdoch's building. and i had gone to see somebody up on one of the top floors who had an office there. and after the meeting came down in the basement in the parking area ran into who other than bob haldeman. he gave me his business card and i gave him mine. he said let's get together for lunch. i said bob, i'd really like to do that. i think there's a lot of notes at this late stage that we could compare and try to help them put together the pieces of what the hell happened. i didn't follow up fast enough and he didn't follow up fast enough >> host: he did not undergo medical treatment? why? >> guest: a number of his aides said it was something

that was treatable but because of his christian science believes the this was one of the things he would do that he felt his religion called for him to do and if so lord healed him he would be healed but if not his time was up. >> host: in an interview in 1981 he called the richard nixon a pathetic figure in american history. would you agree with that assessment? >> guest: i don't know if i would call a pathetic figure although i understand her he was coming from. my publisher has convinced me i should return to nixon. it is something i have done very reluctantly. i have never written about him per se i have never really looked at him so i am doing that right now. one of the things i found

recently on a prior triple in the archives the nixon papers to california. a little more convenient hong i received zero applications for pardons were filed they made their best-- in the presentation and it would be clear after his in particular he would be extremely bitter that nixon did not grant him a pardon prepare everything everyone had done was basically for nixon and the fact he would not see 41 number two of the finest public servants he had known at two not to issue a pardon adds george bush would win

cap weinberger and others were involved during his presidency had not taken care of it. he became a very bitter man. think it cost him years off of his longevity. he was involved with watergate revisionism wanting to believe it and i saw me and go down hill pretty quickly 87 during the first sunday of every month, three hours we go with an author john dean written 10 books and working on your 11th and joining us from las vegas and. >> caller: i was wondering if you that what happened in the 1960 election had a major impact on president nixon's attitudes towards

the powers that be? did you have any conversation regarding his top lawyers at the time wanted him to challenge the electoral count that would have given him the presidency. but from what i have known i have been in direct conversation a second party conversation back from 1966. his reasoning for not telling jane fact is it would have torn the country apart at a time in the '60s when we have a serious problem with nuclear competition with the russians. if you please give me your thoughts or any conversation and maybe that made him a bitter because of the election? >> that is a good summary of the situation and nixon's position is it would be to

divisive if he did sell. he has never fully reported there were problems in the chicago area but what was never fleshed out there was a member of emissaries to check out the downstate illinois elections would have totally obliterated any changes if there was hanky-panky in chicago he realized he would not have been able to prevail but but all of the polling is searching he took the high road and that was his benefit for doing so. >> good morning can talk michigan. >> caller: i have a

question about the car he used to drive it was a portion of. >> guest: 911. >> caller: did you sell it? >> it was marooned 911. great shape by the of the car. every time i drive on the dulles road i think about that car and coming in from the airport a few days ago i thought about it because when i used to drive the dulles road 37 years ago there were no police on it and it was a good time to get the carbon and out of the cylinders of the darfur price all the back to the dealer so i never did find out what happened to it too and it went to california to seven o was here most memorable moment during your

tenure? 81 there was more good days than bad-- watergate was a surprisingly small part of the project of the most memorable-- , it is hard to say days because that had such a unique position the counsel's office was high enough to do see over everything virtually that happened in the white house and government itself so it was a wonderful perch to understand government. the overall job experience was very rewarding. i often thought that in looking particularly looking at my files there would of the largest of the collections i am not ashamed of the anything we did with 99% of our work even

watergate but i did not go hot mice staffed biden not realize to be a criminal lawyer i did realize year to be a sophisticated criminal lawyer my intent may have been up by may have been able to co-president much faster than i did. >> host: i am paraphrasing but you said there was no meeting to plan the cover of. >> it was happening as it happened. a lot of confusion initially as to what had occurred, why for all of these men arrested? who is james mccord at the reelection committee and you

are these cuban-americans? we were struggling to put together the pieces initially to understand its to the best of my knowledge i had never even heard of obstruction of justice -- justice not in talks on hither side of the law i started to look and said water redoing year crooks is this a problem? indeed it was then when i first raised it with another lawyer i said john this is clearly to me like obstruction of justice we have gotten involved we better have second thoughts. he have outlined that john typically had and he said is there something putrid in your water out there? he said i think you are all wrong he was not willing to look at the code and did not want any part of it.

in fact, as it comes up on the nixon tapes after right to win in start to tell nixon on the seriousness of the problems he later will have conversation saying i don't think dean is right that this is obstruction with justice there is nothing wrong to pay them off they did not want to except because they did not feel. first of all, there was no bad motive per car recently ran into a memo in the prosecutor's office on good intentions some of the people involved would say we had no real criminal intent to do something that broke the law to the contrary we do not know we're breaking the wall. that was widespread in the nixon white house. one of the things, there

were mistakes made because there are so many federal crimes, with defrauding the government by misusing agencies it is will understood you don't do that but before then the stocks did not jump into our mind to seven going back to the tapes. >> guest: it does not make them in december of more understandable. >> host: you write about the 18 1/2 minute gap. the famous photograph rose mary woods how did that come about? and then what was then that conversation and why is a missing? >> guest: a photograph i recall was done after the taping system and subpoenas were served and the president agreed he had to turn over some of the tapes

and big gaps started to appear first it was five then 18 and a half than the other tapes are missing and they have a massive hearing in the judge's courtroom. at one point* i think they went back to rose's office to have her show so a judge can see how it happened and how she could reach the machine and reach the telephone and have her phone the on at the same time but it was not physically possible. but that is shown in that picture how difficult it was but she was on the stand it shows that she could not do it. there has never been much of a mystery in my mind about how that happened to.

[laughter] there were only three people that have that all in june 20, one was steve who queued it up for the president another was rose mary woods when she tried to transcribe it and the third was richard nixon who was not very good with machinery parker i remember something basic as opening your drawer where my favorite was when he would try to take the medicine caps he said mr. president can i help you? i can imagine him hearing the tape or even trying to really listen to that in the sale of listen to them again and hitting the wrong buttons because the experts that the judge hired to look at it said it took between

seven and nine different times to the race for you do not need that. i can see nixon saying let me get that again and not understanding how it works since he is silly one that knows that he did it but never admitted some nobody knows what it is. >> host: we will come back to that but we have jackson wyoming. >> caller: think you. icu on msnbc a lot. are with like to know a few questions. i could sit down and talk to four hours per car you still of the conservative philosophy? seven like to know your thoughts of the movie of the "frost/nixon" interview and i would also like to know about the new movie w. that is out and i think scowcroft

said when he knew cheney that cheney today is not the cheney that he knew and you know, what he was talking about? >> guest: the first. on many issues i still consider myself a cold water conservative and about as nonpolitical for somebody who writes about politics as you can imagine price say that in a partisan sense burper igo to both sides i don't believe anybody has all the answers i tried to steady the problem and you think might be the best candidate and try not to be driven by ideology. i am registered in california for all practical purposes they have a clause you don't have to declare either party so why don't. the next question with the frost and nixon movie i have

not seen that yet. i have put on my i found and i thought about watching it on the way back but i watched in glorious bastards instead printer stand it is well done but i certainly remember the original but i was delighted to see it. ron howard does such a good job with everything that he does it brought those issues to mind for another generation. i have been net u.s. the has a visiting scholar for about nine years and kids today know nothing about watergate. i did a little seminar here in washington for harbach students and they know nothing about watergate today so i try to get out and about a little bit to talk about it but the movie w.? i have not seen that.

has that been released? i don't know. >> it can add a few years ago to one i missed that totally and screw cross diana aware of that description. i think there is something to that. i have talked to a number of people who have known cheney over the years. i heard david gergen recently say talking about out hay and he had a quadruple bypass and how he had changed after that. i looked at that when i was a raging worse than watergate i talk to grow cheney south and he would never read these his health records and i did a lot of digging than and talking to a doctor recently doing research us whether a quadruple bypass this change a personality because i think there were two different genes and it is

only anecdotally whether personalities change in the circumstances but from those who know one. i did not know dick cheney at the nixon white house earlier. i knew people who worked with him when he was white house chief of staff. they were not overly impressed with him then and i must say i find him a rather troubling character. a very difficult conservative and a anxious for his book to to amount to try to justify the just claims it is okay. but it is not likely he will be elected president. >> and my life so far by

jane fonda? [laughter] >> guest: i could not resist that. i have known jane for a number of years and when i read her book a of a i had talked to hurt and the book is so honest a wish more people could write autobiographies with that kind of can door. for that reason i had a number of my male friends read that book prices rising police need to understand a woman's point* of view on so many issues and jane is very outspoken. when i sampled less i said i should put to that book because i have recommended to so many people to seven we have massachusetts on the line welcome to book tv's. >> caller: thank you for taking my call. i also watched just when the

watergate hearings were moved and i was moved by the whole thing. the person's name eludes me at that time and. >> thank you. nixon was aware he was feeding information continuously for woodward and bernstein why didn't you fire them? >> guest: he was not aware. what happened then this comes up on one of the tapes october 1972, i had been over at the department of justice and learn to that that one of the lawyers from "the washington post" comes and says feldman is a

serious leak problem and we worry about that and the haldeman reported to nixon and do see it on the tape for keira that transcribed in his book abuse of power, unfortunately it is a very difficult conversation to understand i listen to a based on a tip from people from the archives. are heard a lot of different things. one of the most interesting this said toward the end of the conversation and stanley had used a lot of the lips season in a bid to because he wanted to shorten it. so you have a conversation where nixon makes the rhetorical statement to aldermen i said to know what i do? then there is the elipses

and says son of a. i heard something very different he said do know what i would do with mark bowman bob? ambassadorship. that is what he did with helms at the cia and gave the ambassadorship. of the was known he was a leak but there was no "deep throat." i have always kept him off the list of my candidates because by the time bob woodward is getting his latest and last tip from "deep throat" is the first of 1973. mark phelps is of the fbi and maybe that somebody gave him a tip and picked off a great line with that is the

reason that he never made my last and the other big thing is for somebody in his position for all practical purposes the one man on the watergate investigation into the fbi, there is a massive amount of bad information. dead wrong information program one point* five was flying to wall street and that is a long flight even from los angeles, 17 hours her card took the woodward bernstein book along i have my laptop and pulled out everything both had given to woodward and bernstein and i found out half of it was dead wrong and i posted on one of my articles. if you grew goal in "deep throat", law, a dean they're

all done in red you can find of how much bad information to 7 million mentioned mark fell the three times. did you think it was sam? >> guest: the reason i thought it was pat buchanan that was a romantic interest. i think he would have been a wonderful deep throat while wanted somebody that had noble motives and he would have. >> host: joining us from pittsburgh. go ahead. >> guest: thank you for taking my call. i have two comments and a question. first of all, it is difficult to define the conservative movement but karl rove gave us a clue i wrote once had a quote where he said once you think you have less figure out we change and go in a different direction. my second comment is recently a right training supreme court rules that

large corporations could have campaigned advertising in during the 2000 campaign roast of obama's donations came from lower to middle class people like myself. we're getting more than usual and larger numbers a was a the supreme court ruling to bring more corporate money into the 2002 republican campaign to are due donations made by average income americans? >> guest: you're talking about citizens united versus the federal elections commission prefer very troubling decision. for me for a lot of reasons but first of all, it was not a case they had to decide but obviously a majority of the justices realize they have five votes and they

added that to the case. this is what i would call judicial activism when conservatives do if they don't seem to complain that they clearly you want to resolve this issue and making that person with that title for campaign contributions very unique difference between a corporate person and a human person where the corporate person is tax breaks breaks, reaching into the general treasurer even though the people don't want it. very troubling but we don't know yet how this will play out we have a hope for the best but the potential for the worst is there and what i am told by lawyers to are

revising their clients but they are to be told to keep a low profile is just lay quiet and go through their trade associations the chamber of commerce and don't start getting where what do have our own senators that would be a disaster so they are being cautious initially but it's very troubling precedent. >> host: you can be on-line at twitter.com/booktv. david joins us from oceanside california. go ahead please. >> good morning. god bless this piece station c-span. i was going to ask about nixon's support you use the

term watergate permission is some there are no strings at some point*. but i want to change direction slightly since you were talking about mark obviously the idea that the deep through and then pushing a very authoritarian personality which seems to be endemic of the fbi. >> guest: i think you are right on 12 could very well fall into your authoritarian personality type very self righteous doing what he is doing and doing it for his own