input. he wanted more and more data and the deluge of data that he sought kind of paralyzed him from making decisions that are about people who were around and they were sort of stunned by that. between decisive and indecisive. they sought in robbery that his relationship with the other candidates was horrible. and we have some quite vivid details in the book out just how much john mccain, how much mike huckabee, how much all of the republican candidates dislike mitt romney. this time as kindly and madonna. he would not a debate to do is make up and in up and in the same as the rest of the candidates. there's a very colorful scene in a book that involves all the republican candidates standing at the urinals before doing the business before a debate mocking romney behind his back as they regulate it and tell mitt romney walk in them and overheard it and a kind of embarrassed hush fell over the group. ut. the difference between rudy giuliani on the campaign trail

and in private? guest: the book is about politics and the sense that we write about presidential candidates and their spouses, but our goal was to write about the personalities and the high human drama. we knew all the time that we had an interesting set of characters. pretty giuliani is the seventh--- we knew we had an interesting set of characters went rudy giuliani was the seventh-the most interesting candidate. a clean up new york city and stood up to terrorists after 9/11. but on the campaign ail, is campaign aides could not get into run negative ads when he was shown the negative ads going out against him he would laugh and say they are silly and when he was challenged by his opponents, he would laugh.

he had a hunger to win. that is essential in presidential politics and ran counter to his image and someone talked about cognitive dissonance. his inability to define himself and reenforce his strength in his image of being tough was part of this. the person who knew him best was john mccain. when john mccain started to fall and the question was who was going to rise up, his aides would say why not? rudy is a routine. the things required to get the republican nomination were -- >> thank you both. >> editor at large for time magazine. he is the co-author of the way

to win. a former staff writer for the new yorker and the economist. he is the author of pride before the fall. and newyorker.com. this weekend on booktv -- [talking over each other]

>> rolling stone contributing editor discusses what he believes is the approaching death of the recording industry and chronicles its mistakes. lydia media hosts the hourlong event. >> let me start by talking about why i am here. i am a contributing editor to rolling stone magazine and i wrote appetite for self destruction, the spectacular crash of the record industry in the digital age. i cover the music business. much as i love to write the sexy stories for rolling stone and here britney spears in her underwear, i right about the business and managers and record labels and people like that. the reason i am here tonight is i feel like my book captures a

point in the music industry where they had an opportunity to create a much bigger business when a technology came along and they botched it and there is a lot of stupidity and errors made along the way. it is a cautionary tale for other businesses too. we are mostly small businesses. what do companies like universal and sony and warner brothers do with us? let me talk about the tijuana brass. any fan of that? i was going to hum the song but i don't know if you want to hear that. >> you will have a mike turned off. >> can you hear me ok?

sorry about that. so herb albert started making music literally -- sorry. herb albert started making music literally in his garage. he was a trumpeter in the early 60s. he didn't have enough money to distribute its records. so he made this one song and the title of it was tell it to the birds. got it. got it. is that better? sorry about that. i can carry this around? do i need to repeat all that again? herb albert started making music in his garage in the early 60s and has a friend who had been in the music business for a few

years to promote records. he would drive the stacks of records up and down the coast of california to these various radio stations trying to push them to play them on the air. they got together and realized this music might have come -- some commercial potential. they recorded tell it to the birds and the lonely boats and they caught up on this latin music spanish matted or phase. they sold something like 700,000 copies. that was the beginning of this hitmaking streak that would last four decades. record company that they formed lasted for years and years and despite the conglomeration of the record business that happen

over time and on records fiercely independent business run very much by entrepreneur is. herb and jerry had complementary skills. herb was the artistic guy and jerry was the salesman. they had another guy who was the guy who did the day to day operations. island a lot by talking to these guys. they would discover these artists, janet jackson and sound garden, they had a knack for finding these talents no one had heard of and turning them, turning them into pop stars. in the 70s, with the guitar and

weird sounds that he made, huge hit for them went on and on. this is great. the company was doing well. things started to change. i began with the adoption of the compact disk in the record business in the early 80s. changing from the vinyl record to the cd in the early 80s and you think this would be an easy decision shifting from one to the other. it didn't happen that way. the record business has been resistant to technological change. when radio came out they opposed it. when mtv came out they opposed it. they oppose cassette tapes and the l p. the compact disc was no

different. i have an anecdote where the two main companies both of which have ties to the record industry, not like they were coming in from the cold. they were pushing record labels to switch their valuable catalogs, close down their multimillion-dollar l p plants and start with these new high-tech state of the art cleaning rooms that will cost tens of millions of dollars and the record label guys were not part of it. philips and sony wore them down and everything culminated in this one meeting of the recording industry when the heads of the record labels, colorful characters asking this one guy who was head of electrical records involved in the beginning of mtv and

discovered the doors and was thought of as a technology guru in the record industry. though they started asking jack how this cd is going to work and there is this one guy, abc records, very old school record guys, really old school. so i have a question, interrupted everybody. i have cable television in my house and i get a lot of clouds in my reception. what do you think is going on? everyone paused. why are you asking this question and jack stumbled out an answer that it depends if you are in an apartment or a house. that illustrates the closeness

that record industry people have had about new technological ideas when they come along. it took a while but they saw the money. it became obvious that cds were selling. there were companies and record stores asking for these huge shipments of cds from japan. these things were really starting to take off and once it collect in the mid 80s as many of you probably remember. they created an incredible boom in the record industry. perhaps the biggest hookers and blow era in the record industry. all those guys got really rich.

[talking over each other] millions and millions of dollars and access and in the early '90s when the scruffy grunge punk rock band came out and had a huge hit record the record label people were going out to find these punch bands. and the band's responded and they threw out the furniture into the pool in the hotel and completely destroyed the place in fine rock and roll tradition. i call it the cd boom and it lasted from 1984 to 2,000.

and it peaked with the phenomenon that you remember called teen pop and teen pop reefers' to beginning in the 90s britney spears, d-backs street boys, all those banneds that cater to 18 crowd and i will not make qualitative judgment about that. this is really interesting. this music's old, lot of units. in the record industry, this incredible peak. everybody was rich. i made that point enough. something interesting happened. in 1999, earlier than that, 97-98 the internet popped up and

the record industry, many of the executive for top companies were oblivious to it. they did not have computers on their desk and there were several important characters who didn't go from the internet and a famous quote when the marketers go into their office and they would say we should get on this internet thing and have a 0 chat rooms and the ceos tended to say the internet is a fad. you had a not particularly technologically progressive industry dealing with something that was really a huge amount of change. what would happen -- a little bit of what an m p 3 is.

it is a tiny fly all people can trade over e-mail or the web. those were invented by this group of german scientists starting back in the 70s. they were not thinking music or compact discs which didn't exist. they were thinking telephone. they were trying to improve communications through telephone lines which were archaic. they were trying to shrink will nodes of text to trade them over the phone lines and as cds came out they went that is a pretty good idea. let's figure out how to shrink the music on this and experiment with this. eventually they came up with this compressed audio technology called the m p 3. in the 90s regular people

started getting hold of these and trading them in chat rooms with dances like the grateful dead who have a community of people who are technologically savvy. they started trading these files in the chat rooms. then there is this kid but it was not that big a deal. record companies were warned. the german scientists met with them and said the sky might be falling very soon. you german scientist go away. in 1999 there was this kid was 19 years old and he was a freshman at northeastern university in the boston area. he invented something so ridiculously simple that it was genius. it was called naps there which was basically a glorified chat room just like you would find on

ao el where people communicate over the internet. what he figured out was people could talk to each other on this just like a chat room and also trade mp 3s for free. they knew how to make them and compress them using technology of the time and they would go on to napsste r and then there are 20 zillion people trading hundreds of thousands of songs so this sort of popped up from the ground up and the record industry didn't know it until it would really start to happen in a big way. i have a scene in my book where the head of the recording industry, her security guy mentioned to her that you should look at this and she looked on

line and it was as if someone had gone into the tower records and smashed all the locks on the door and started stealing the music and started looting the place and they panicked and they said this is going to kill us. now we are talking about strategic inflexion and technological disruption. let me back up and say yes. the record industry acted stupidly which i will talk about in a minute and this was a theft and piracy. it was a new direction they should have gone in. it was different from other industries. they are talking about theft and piracy. the first reaction was somewhat understandable which was basically to screw the crap out of everybody. the first entity the record label sued, all the lawyers she

had on her side, the first entity was naps t e r run by a couple of other people including sean's uncle, john, probably fair to say that he was a failed internet entrepreneur. john potlatch on to his nephew's technology, pushed his nephew into a bad deal, something like 70/30 and the two of them to gather sort of in a way flew the flag that we are pirates and we are going to destroy the record industry and they said they didn't later when they got sued in court but ultimately court decisions went against napsteare and put them out of business. they won the core rice and they

put twenty-seven million users at its peak at the end. the record industry wiped their hands and said let's move on and sell cds. next thing you know some other things popped up to take its place which everybody predicted it would. so their share, i could go on and on. the cliche used at the time, you can't put the genie back into the bottle. the five major labels, after napsteare where if you or i as

consumers wanted to and not go to a record store for a song we heard on the radio we liked and spend $18 for a cd with one good song and wanted to cherry pick a song and sample it on line we couldn't do that legally. the only way we could do that if we wanted to download a song, it was a little bit quaint but for a music fan who liked the convenience of downloading it at home didn't want to be a pirate. those of us who went through that found it an incredibly frustrating period and was interesting and this part of it is instructive during technological change. the record industry started something called the strategic digital music initiative. this had good intentions. this is a powerful industry and they were able to muster a lot

of the top minds in the world. technology companies and electronics companies, texas instruments, microsoft, everyone was in these meetings and they would get hundreds of people to talk about what we are going to do about this, use the internet as an opportunity? how can we not lose cd sales and shift into this new world? sounds great but it turned out the record labels who attended had a hidden agenda that all these frustrated guys from texas instruments and hewlett-packard didn't know about until they started attending these meetings that the record labels had no interest in licensing all their music to a tech company. they just wanted to put locks on the music. they wanted to sue the pirates and put locks on the music. that is the only thing they would go for. so these meetings were pretty frustrating for a lot of people.

there is one character, want to shift into a more anecdotal story. one character emerged from these stories named al smith. he was vice-president of technology for sony music. all these huge stars. out smith was a bore stress kind of guy. he would do these standoffish things. people would be trying to get things done and he would sit with his arms folded saying we won't do that and he was deliberately saying things that would torture the engineers and there was a guy chairing these meetings who was also a character. he was an italian experts on open source and fair use and

that sort of thing. and leonardo, whose personality was as fanciful as his name, would share these meetings and would be going on and on about something. they had these little desks and his knees were so huge, they were almost like school vests. his knees were so cute that he would start lifting up the desks as leonardo was talking and he started messing with the desk and unscrewing these heavy metal legs of the desk and while leonardo was talking you would hear this sound as he dropped those metal legs on the floor and there was a point where he looked up in the middle of his speech to see where the commotion was coming from, didn't even move a muscle and kept talking so there were these kinds of meetings where nothing got done. just this incredible exasperated

frustration. so that was the mentality of a record label at the time. after that, after that the personal the record labels had an opportunity. they came to the crossroads and have a moment where they could make a deal even though they were suing them and in 2000, there was a conference where all the record label people got together with all the next your people and said let's hammer out a deal and i position that as the crossroads as the whole thing. that was the strategic inflexion point. if they had made a deal even though they were giving away the music for free, millions of their fans were on their, millions of people who love music who were their own customers who they could

communicate with directly, millions of people who would go on to do the same things on social networking sites like facebook, all your customers are in a room in one place and they want this stuff and you can communicate with them and the record labels had an opportunity to make a deal. there were a lot of negotiations that went back and forth and there was a lot of stubbornness on both sides and the deal broke down. i said in my book that this was a huge missed opportunity. this was a controversial thing to say because this was people who were making money off of piracy. but imagine if you had twenty million people in one place and some of them, may be a lot of them didn't necessarily want to be pirates. they just liked the convenience of downloadable music. maybe they would have paid for a

subscription. some version of a package. you start adding up the numbers and did becomes a pretty significant revenue stream and it is a revenue stream that supports the marketing of artists in other ways. i have an anecdote that talks about the 2000 superbowl. a new media guide was watching the super bowl and at halftime there were performances by britney spears and aaron smith and a bunch of others and mark was paying attention as this was going on and noticing a lot more activity for these artists. you could tell that. he was noticing there were tons of people who suddenly became interested in britney spears in this huge spike over the weekend and on monday he went into work and was all fired up and said we have to release some singles of these guys that we can distribute on the internet or

get them in stores because we need to take advantage of this interest and we only have these cds that take months to make and cost $18. there's no way to rush something out like that so the opportunity came and went. i think that is what i am talking about. record labels missed an opportunity because the technology disruption. so let me talk a little bit about strategic inflexion points for a second. i was reading and i quote in my book another book -- you are probably familiar with this. andrew s. grove. chief executive officer of intel. he had gone through in the mid 80s, huge strategic introduction point of his own and that was when they got out of the memory

business which basically created this multimillion-dollar international industry and shifted over into the microprocessor business and when this started to happen this was a difficult shift and he goes on about the tough decision of taking your company out of a market it is known for and shifting into a completely new market that it may not know anything about or at least only a small segment of company was interestn a lot of this book had some interesting things to say about what happened in the micg the thing is down about what the music industry can learn and and in addition some of my own thoughts so what can we learn from the music industry's example of what not to do when you are faced with this kind of strategic inflexion point which i designed as a fork in the road.

one takes you to the new technology business, reinvents your company and turns you into a much stronger entity and the other is the old road which is keep writing your old business which is still making money but will not always make money all the way into the ground which is what the record industry shows and i will get into that in a minute. don't lose your entrepreneurial instincts. never say i am big enough that i am beyond that mentality. always retain some of that. don't be too comfortable. hire people who are experts on this and pay close attention to their recommendations. give their real pobu forget to trust your instincts. in the record industry there is a guy who is the ceo of universal music and his name is doug morris. a respectable record industry

going all the way back into the 50s and 60s when he wrote hit songs and produced them. he was involved in one of my favorite songs either. doug was quoted in wired magazine, three years ago. that is a misconception. that is well and good. the wired writer took it into task and researching my book with 230 people, during the

napste r, people in charge of marketing music on the internet, people saw what was happening. we should use this. this is the future and they were consistently over a longer period of time just like the guy with the super bowl example just completely ignored. one thing i learned from this is you have to listen to your own people. if you hire people to look for a strategic inflexion point it seems obvious. if you hire people to look for this and farrah out where they see the wind shifting in the business, you have to listen to them. you don't have to do what they

say but give them real power. listen to them and make sure these are valuable people on your staff and even if you are smarter about the business in gene what else? i have a lot o listening in my advice. listened to the people above you. thomas was the ceo of of 8 huge media publishing company in one labels which owns the elvis presley catalog and is an interesting company and he attended a lot of these and he said you should take advantage of this. it is piracy and theft and we

have to deal with it but it is an opportunity. our customers want to download things. what if we put the entire elvis presley catalog and all these books put out by our publisher and different e r to our product and we are able to communicate with them, he said let's make a deal and alternately he did. he wound up loaning money, something like $60 million to keep it afloat at a particular time which is awkward because his subsidiary company was pursuing them at a time. saw it was a strange time when you had through the chain of command some people down here who were pro and some were anti.

ultimately he got whacked because of this. eventually he was able to succeed and they were able to work together a little bit but eventually, this kind of longtime family company eventually got cold feet and decided they don't want any part of this and this was a kind of cassandra saying of the sky is falling and here is the new business and to steer them back to the right fork and the record label didn't listen. listen to your customers. interestingly in the record business, you don't think of it this way but it was sort of a b to b business.

their customers were not music fans although they had to pay attention to their tastes. their customers were in retail stores. the people, the entities that record labels were selling their music to in the form of cds and lps ready tower records and twist and shout and so forth. they ruled these companies with an iron fist. they would set prices, they would not listen when stores say we want a discount for our customers and so it went for decades. and it sort of showed that customers wanted to go in a different area but record labels had no real pipeline or communication to communicate directly with their customers. i read a lot about radio.

radio is the opposite. radio is surveying its listeners. they had ways of doing focus group research for market research and put people in ballrooms and play them a 20 seconds fragmented and determine if other people like it or don't like it. record labels don't do any of that at least they didn't. they completely rely on their own instincts. it was interesting to me to cover radio versus the record industry which is a totally different mentality about figuring out what your customers want. i believe if the record labels had the internet, if they had been interested and were able to communicate with their customers they would have seen this coming. if they were able to listen again to the customers, the people who were above them and

below them and paid to do this sort of thing they might not have wound up where they wound up. this strikes me as difficult. i am a small business of one. i have no employees. i am a freelance writer. encourage open debate within your company. make the tough decisions and try to defend them. he makes the point that if you are defending an idea and you are nervous about doing that, think how it will be when you defend your product to the public. start with your own company. have a knockdown drag out debate. i found this concept interesting that there are two phases of this when you make a big change in your business. the first is pure chaos when everybody is saying whatever

they want and fighting and spewing out their opinions and the heads of the company are trying to take this in and the second phase is raining in the chaos and once you figure out your direction, the new direction you want to go in, make it almost military. just go crazy in that direction. the last thing is obvious. timing is everything. the old business is doing pretty well and the new business is taking off. if you make mistakes you will still have a sizable portion to fall back on but the consequences of doing nothing are worse than trying to do something. this is important advice that was relevant to the record industry in the 90s. so let's talk about what happened in the record business.

2002, i talked about that period from 1999-2002 when i was frustrated and people were frustrated they couldn't download music online legally. another guy was frustrated named steve jobs. steve jobs basically called up some people and said you guys are idiots. you are destroying your whole business and steve jobs said i want you guys to come to my office at apple computer headquarters and i want to meet with each of you and show you what we have. at that point the label guys figured it out and they were desperate. the stuff we have that will put us on line isn't too good. it was $2.95 to download a song

and it never worked. so steve jobs brings them to his office with his black turtleneck. or so i am told. he is sitting at his desk and listening to the record people say their frustrations and piracy and check this out and turns the computer on his desk and there is the eyeitunes music store and the people when one 0. with that word they lost all their leverage. they basically were caught. they said we have to have this. they weren't able to get it. some other people at the company got it but they weren't able to get it at that moment. steve jobs held all the cards. obscene like an interesting deal but ultimately the record labels wound up giving away the store.

they made a deal that seemed really good for them. the song that the itunes store sell for $0.99 apiece. record companies get $0.70 for each download and steve jobs gets $0.29. not a bad deal. that deal, so far they hold four billion download. it is pretty good. not a bad business but it is not like selling a bunch of copies of michael jackson's thriller for $18 on cd. so you have two curves. you have digital music sales going up mostly through the itunes store and compact disk sales, $18 and now cheaper going down. as a result since this started happening apple's stock has been

going up and the record label stocks have been going down. one important thing record labels missed. the ipod is the thing which is usually filled with pirated music but that is another story. the ipod makes a lot of money for apple. it sells from $300 and there are lots of ways to put music on the ipod. you can read your own cd collection. another way is to steal music online which nobody says they do but everyone does. i ç;qjjy not anymore. 1999 to 2002 was a rough time for all of us. all of us music fans.

another way is to pay them $0.99 on itunes. most ipods are 2 to 16 gigabytes of music and that is tens of thousands of songs. i don't think most people are buying that many songs. what i am trying to say is the record labels made a mistake with those negotiations. they did not get a cut of the ipod. when apple sells and ipod apple sells all the money. when apple's stock went up the record labels stock went down. we are talking about an industry that is shrinking. not the music industry itself. it is fine. music is healthy. i am very pollyanna about music. i love music and the music that came out in 2009 was as strong as the music in 1999 or any other year and you and i can

debate about that later. i think the music industry is fine. the concert industry is fine. what is not fine is these traditional record labels, universal, sony, warner. they are shrinking, delaying the staff, slashing their artist rosters. i was talking to a source at universal, they are laying off three people in months at least throughout most of this year. i know a lot of these people and it is an industry in decline. what is going to happen to these labels? are they going to fade away? it feels like the end is near. i do feel that way. a few things, the record labels will still exist, the big labels. they will still exist because everybody likes superstars and at least for the time being the

way to turn nobody into a gigantic star, justin timberlake or beyonce, still old-fashioned way, for that artist to sign with a major record label and use the connections to get on the radio. you have seen more of that. there is this kid, the new teen pop guy who plays in malls and your kids probably like him a lot and the jonas brothers. there are a lot of traditional stars but something interesting is happening under the surface and that is artists are finding ways to make money without the traditional labels system. some of these artists are well known. radio head is the best example. radio head put out an album called rainbows. it is a popular rock band.

they put up this album and they said pay us what you want. we will give it away on the internet. get it for free if you want or pay a $5 million. everybody said are they crazy? it was a really interesting concept. two things happened. people actually paid. radio head no longer had a label. they were able to control their music, give it away low cost because it doesn't cost much anymore. every amount of money people paid for that was pure profit. i forget the exact number but they made $1.5 million on that alone. it was a loss leader but not a loss. so they had a concert for. they sold tickets for $80 and made a ton of money that way and

started selling this nice compact disc box. they brilliantly used this new internet technology, not really new at the time -- to creatively make money. they are a band created under the old major label system. how can i do that? there are some interesting ways to do that. generally speaking, ands that are new have a lot more ways marketing themselves than they did 20 years ago. they have facedbook and myspace, on and on and examples like okay go which is not that well-known band and this group the video

with a treadmill choreographed thing and this became a sensation on youtube. more importantly some believe these countries, they were calling and saying how would you like to play for us for money? they became this live sensation. i read an interesting article the other day talking about a couple other examples of this. there is a guy named joffrey's who none of you have heard of the personal paid for a lot of well-known acts. josh was going on the internet and was giving access to himself. you can have lunch with me for $250 or have made from lesson with me as long as a free drum.

you can spend a week with me at disneyland and i will tell you about recording with sting. people have taken him up on this. a lot of people are doing creative things. another kid who i believe is from washington d.c. named corey smith who has given his music away for free but he has been creative about giving away concert ticket deals so he will have presales and through doing this, this is the story of the figures that are high to me but he grossed something like $400 million, i never heard of this guy. there were a lot of examples of people being creative. the music has to be good but you can figure out how to market it.

last thing i want to talk about is this is what i covered nowadays, the record industry has declined and profits have declined, be live music industry has correspondingly gone up. it has gone very well. if you look at the numbers, rolling stone, madonna, these are still huge stars who make tons of money off of their concert tickets. an interesting thing happened this week which i think represents another inflexion point for the entire industry but time will tell. live nation which is the biggest concert promoter in the world that most of the events, their competitors -- merged with the top ticket company ticketmaster. the department of justice gave approval for this on monday.

there are a lot of monopoly indications of this. i interviewed 40 people this week who are competitors, independent promoters, artists who are not interested in this company. some people are upset about this. these companies together, it will be interesting to take advantage of these new opportunities. we are talking about things that were envisioned in the naps t e r like bundling things together. they are selling you a concert ticket for $50 to $200 and bundle their download for free. this is potentially something that can happen. they will throw in a t-shirt

that can't be pirated over the internet. they are leveraging these different things to be able to create brand new revenue streams. the record labels are left in the cold because traditionally record labels are the only revenue stream that record labels have the traditional model of signing the rights to their master recordings, making money off of them and they are sometimes poor in this process but often the way they make money is selling concert tickets and merchandise. the record labels don't have that. they only have the recorded music so it will be interesting to watch what happens with these two companies that merged to. i have no idea but i think it will change things considerably.

>> if the money is in concert promotion why wouldn't the record company going to the promotion business? >> excellent question. they are trying to but don't have any of that. record label only made their money off of recorded music. when the see the boom had the most they can have would have been the time to do what you suggest which is say let's share revenue streams with concert tickets and merchandise and all this stuff. fans said go to hell and record labels said okay. we are making hundreds of millions of dollars. let's not worry about that. there was pressure too because the bands were resistant to giving up those particular

revenue streams. they made a lot of money. they have aggressive managers, very successful band. it was a hard business. the record labels go to them, 100%. they would say go to hell. record labels have become more desperate. what revenue streams won't rely -- a 160 degree deal, everything in an artist's career.

we have an interest in making it better. the hardest thing, they are signing new artists to do those deals. it is too late. [talking over each other] >> wait for the microphone before you ask. >> how fair is it to criticize the record industry when they were victims of piracy and theft? you can't compete with free. >> that is something that comes up a lot. basically the record industry was a victim.

if you can't compete with free i was covering the music industry for other magazines at the time in the 90s when naps ter came along. habaguanex -- the bottom water industry is competing with free to create a cliche example that came up a lot at the time. radio competed with 40. so i think it was fair that the record industry portrayed itself as victims during this time and piracy and theft and stealing was definitely going on. i am not defending piracy and never would defend piracy. i am a believer in copyright but stuffç happens. when you're dealing with something to throw up your hands and say we are doomed or try to figure out what can we do to salvage our business or shift

into a new direction? we are seeing that with a lot of other industries. it is a similar pattern. i worked for many years for the newspaper industry. it has dealt interestingly with exactly the same mark as the record industry and the only crucial difference is none of the stuff that happened with the newspaper industry has involved piracy or theft. craigslist is very legal. craigslist stole away a lot, took away a lot of newspaper profits based on classified ads and it is all free and the newspaper people did the same thing. you can compete with free. i wonder why newspapers can't come up with a better version of craigslist. they still aren't talking about