literally standing and watching. up in the northern border. and husband buy will gave the idea. they conditioned themselves to rock throwing. now they are fighting people with better weapons and better organization. but the button line was hezbollah fought better because they weren't fighting for a state. they were fighting for what arabs fight for, faith, family, turf. in afghanistan, talking about the draft with karzai because we can't get afghans to fight for

the corrupt karzai government, surprise, surprise. in afghanistan, government was always the enemy. they came and took your money, and sometimes sons and daughters. but the it'll taliban has no shortage of involve tires. passion, they will fight for. it's a long answer. let me try to wrap it up. i really don't think any of this jewish christians live by the rule of lucid case. it's not a contradiction. there's god and practice. i think christianity and judaism are healthy. they are both exile.

the middle east, thest efforts of arabia have a genius but they can't sustain or nuture them. if you are darwinian, look at judaism and how it survived, you folks must be the most talented. :

the pagan influence old-time for a long time. but first of all, are exurb in the west for us to concerts and examined again self-exile this time to north america or to israel. in the self-selection in the later stages, this moving towards a frontier, this bravery, this willingness to take risks, to rebuild, to restart life sometimes for necessity, sometimes for ambition. i think it's really kept us fresh and healthy. and you look at the middle east and it is just wallowed in dysfunctional traditions. there was never change. so i think the tragedy of islam

is a tragedy of greater relief. with that said, the atkins plan for a a long time. if you go to a synagogue or indonesia is doing just fine. indonesia, 222 million people take a couple million of well over 90% are muslims and they produced a couple hundred terrorists. wait a minute, a couple hundred terrorists are 210 or so billion muslims. that's not bad. i did a research project in indonesia and overall the indonesians just don't want any part of it. some are stricter believers another, et cetera bonded not shaken a few nut cases and the ties go back to trading routes with makkah in the middle ages, but they really don't want any part of hinduism and buddha that prevailed in indonesia parliament in islam so when you look at islam on the western tip of camacho, it's really in our

class. there's a lot of animism thrown in. and i don't have time to go into some of the hilarious practices that drive the studies that. but it's very different. but indonesia is a frontier for islam. it came in really two most java victims around the 16th century and later to other islands. in other parts of java. and that's a relatively short candidate human affairs. so religions like societies change on their frontiers. the problem is long debated, the problem is middle eastern islam, which is just locked in concrete and unable to change and claim to civilization that they cherish, it bears come that's what they know. but it just doesn't work. middle eastern civilization beyond israel is not competitive in a single sphere of human endeavor, not even terrorism because right now we're terres and the terrorists. and what the situation were

reversed and this what we cherish his dysfunctional. madam? >> first of all, malaysia is the consummate becoming much more radical, much more muslim radical than it used to be. it sounds like you disagree with the role in afghanistan and what's your take on the end of it? >> two very good questions. you might an uptick in radicalism and india and asia because of the media and saudi money. saudi money pours into every area but trying to turn indignation lobbies. and i really don't about indonesia. it will produce some tears, but the grapevine that a place to alone in the saudi attempt to subvert it to autism really comes from a businessman in indonesia. setting of the problem with those indonesians is they just will stay bought.

indonesians have their own tradition that they cherish. there will be some radicals. parts may become more conservative. at 17,000 islands, about 8000 inhabited to some degree in i could be wrong about the number. so you're going to get a lot of choices. but a lot of the conflicts between christians and muslims in indonesia and i'm quickly recognized a religious conflict. but a lot of comics between christians and muslims in indonesia were actually result of government policies to the effects of population from java and other islands of a large christian populations. they're really fighting about land rights. but then it becomes a religious order after it starts. now yes, in afghanistan, why you ask. i have never opposed to killing terrorists. as opposed to capturing. once a human being commit a

terrorist act, he or she said themselves outside the boundaries of humanity as far as i'm concerned. to kill the innocent is a sin in any religion and i have no patience with it. and i'm sorry, especially difficult since i found this idea, everyone can be redeemed spirit well, no they can't, sorry. if god wants to take care of redeeming them, fine, but we can't do it. we really can't persuade diehard religious fanatics to sign up for the pepsi generation. it doesn't work, it's not going to happen, we've had no success either. this is a war to the knife. you know, i always tell people that even if you're not religious, read the old testament. it begins with the plight of two refugees, turns quickly to for solid on to genocide, war and

rumors of war. the book of joshua, what a ferocious book, ferocious. but the point is that recognizes humanity as it is. and by the way, i think another reason, why we have done so well and why women's rights came here at a long gestation. but if you look at religious literature, in both the torah and write to the old testament to the new testament and in our shared religious heritage, look at the caret or is among look at the people. they are full human beings. look at the women. they're the ones who want to date and then they're the ones who want to marry. the women are real human beings, rounded figures no pun intended to many look you look at the state figure in the corral and.

but they're not real. and i think the fact that our founding documents of state, the word of god showed us the path, we're just slow learners. but i do think the fact that our founding -- our documents by the documents of the faith, recognize human humanity in all its richness and complexity. it's not just good and evil, they're complex. david is incredibly complex. it recognizes humanity and some of the other religious text simply do not. now afghanistan, i'm all for killing terrorists. i don't want to leave afghanistan completely, but i think we've made terrible mistake in 2002. we went to afghanistan in 2001 to smash al qaeda and punish the taliban for harboring.

by the may 2002 combination had been accomplished. we should've come home. but the slobbery residual force to keep hitting. instead, we find ourselves this idea that we could somehow turn afghanistan into a land of flora and it's not going to have been. it just is not. whenever asked ourselves the basic questions such as what to ask him find for an afghan identity? you're talking about pashtuns, uzbecs, persian speakers, baluchis, all of them want something somewhat different instead of an artificially constructed country. the mistake we made were defending ourselves holes that were unrealistic. we have to keep pursuing in some of the stuff are doing is nice to do. but when it comes to strategy, as complex as it is in its

institution in details, the fundamental questions, which we do not ask for a very straightforward. there are three. unless a war since since world war ii was forcibly. if you have a choice come easter with three questions. one, what precisely do we hope to do? really, what do we have to do? and reach our sharp. number two, can it be done by number three, is that it can be done, is it worth doing? we have asked ourselves an endless questions about afghan in. now i'm not making light of casualties when i say this, but added she is also very much like investment. who here would invest willingly and a corporation site that has 200 years of history of defrauding and bankrupting

foreign investors? i mean, strategy is like investment in the sense that if you have a choice, you want to have at least a reasonable chance of a positive return on your investment. but we just stumbled into this idea, this assumption that we have to fix afghanistan. okay, they hosted the -- taliban hosted al qaeda and a counterattacks we have to fix afghanistan. there's no logic to this. [inaudible] in 2002 -- [inaudible] this voice? i was riding in "the wall street journal" that the job we went there was to kill al qaeda. i was never trying to fix afghanistan. i am for women's rights. and while roosting there i was forced doing what we legitimately could. but again, i'm an amateur. the british after a long time tried to figure out how to do with the afghan tribes but all

they did was butcher them poker for the tribes >> translator: to violent with paradigm you left. you didn't try to turn them into -- squires from suffix. i'm not saying just a word about unitarians. i'm saying if you want to be a good humanitarian, start with unfettered doable. the clear about the purpose. what exactly are you trying to do? can it be done? so i hope our efforts in afghanistan are fully successful in afghanistan becomes a fully integrated democratic member of the united nations and every afghan is going to university. great, hope it happens. i don't think it's going to. so i resent the idea that were time to do something the local people don't want that the great expanse of one treasure and speaking for the u.s., we have all into this pattern for the cold war when siu supported dictators, the tory figures because it was lost.

the cold war is over. doughnuts do it anymore. but we still can't stop. in the pattern is the same. we lie to ourselves. in vietnam and later under what cheer, but keeping ourselves that these guys are cherished other people and just a little more time and the local militaries are going to come along. but we've been in afghanistan almost a decade and we can't get afghans to fight what we want them to fight for. does not tell us something? at what point did the afghan step up? iraq was different. i was for iraq. not because of weapons of mass destruction, because the middle east is so broke and we have to do something to try to kickstart change. and they may work. we'll know in 30 or 40 years. it takes a long time. but afghanistan has no inherent value. it's worthless dirt, they're hillbillies. our goals in afghanistan should be to keep it coming based in al

qaeda again you don't have to turn it into toronto or british columbia to do the. and people might say will be should've left in 2002, kept in a rush of forces and keep hammering out qaeda, but we might decide to go back okay, then you go back. but think of the expense we've engaged in, blood and treasure, trying to give afghan something that most of them just don't want. now, we also fall into the trap, and we talked to in countries? we talk with people who speak english, who are educated in the west, the hamid karzai and they're often brilliant cons. they know just what to say. democracy, human rights, okeechobee, remember me was? is a guy who chimed the hardheaded bush administration. i have my record of sand in 2003 he was a con man who can be trusted. you didn't have to be a genius

to see it. you have to buy a couple persian rugs in your life. he was a con. and now he is iran's same man in iraq. very tight with revolutionary goers. just like someone blake matter judo urges because they speak english and they will want assuming they died for us. his family essentially had slaves, was a futile landholding family. an incredibly correct, incredibly corrupt, but she knew what to say. we didn't probe beyond that. and then you go to religion in afghanistan. i keep hearing from people trying to rationalize the problem away. we don't want to deal with religion as a force of human affairs. so go say, al qaeda is just using the religion as a tool. while then, we don't have wise to also affect this? is iran?

the taliban, their hacker at, there pederasts. the religion does exist. and again, keep fighting for people in washington to accept the fact that when you and me and says that he is fighting for his religion and is willing to die for his religion, it might be wise to take him or her seriously. i mean, we pretend the ivy league grads, they're so secular and education outlook they don't get the power thing, the transformative power of revelation, the incredibly the shattering echoes of the voice of god in human affairs. they don't understand that power. and so, they just rationalize it away. but i put it to you, what could be more powerful than religion? here are the five most powerful

come in the great religions: judaism, to a layperson like me at the least 3000 or so, 262-2000 us and nobody goes back obviously further. christianity, two dozen are sold. hinduism, god knows to buddhism, 2000 years. islam is a baby. it's about 1800 years old. 1300 years. think of the empires that have risen and fallen over that space of time. ideologies that have come and gone. no ideology has ever created a religion other religions have hosted many ideologies. darwin because of when a legend who he was with bind one thing. religion is the most powerful tool for preserving him and collect his. even more powerful than ethnicity because while people will fight for their clan, their

tribe, their family, their kid, like al qaeda. al qaeda, they don't all speak arabic. or certainly aren't arabs. they come in brown, tan, yellow, white, black, it's a real multinational corporation. but they will die for each other for their vision of faith you to underestimate the power of religion in human affairs, is like putting a ball and chain inertia future tangles from you. so in afghanistan, i don't want to leave. on to keep some forces there, to keep hammering out qaeda here but let us recognize, al qaeda is not in afghanistan anymore. we don't want them to come back. but al shabab and somalia, they're in memory. they're scattered throughout other places. back in 2006, in 2007, i wrote that there was a good chance

that the sunni awakening, the sunni flip against al qaeda and iraq would mark the high water mark in al qaeda and that house. because al qaeda sets itself up as a champion of sunni muslims. and remember after september 11, 2001, how they're all jumping up and down the street celebrating? because al qaeda did what religious fanatics in power always do, push things to the extreme than alienated the local people. they pretended to champion millions of iraqi sunni arabs turned against them. and that did respond throughout the arab world. so very different from 2001, right now al qaeda is not welcomed in any arab country. they're still there and there's all sorts of backroom deals and funding from emirates and saudi's, but they're not formally welcome anyway. they're not big celebrations of osama bin laden as the butcher

not going to be held at anywhere. the trouble is middle eastern muslims have been failing and arabs especially have been feeling for so long they needed a win. 9/11 was the biggest windbag had since before the mongols. and i was there. they needed a success story. and i was going to iraq because i was hoping and i still hope soberly that iraq will prove to be an arab success stories, and arab society, the kind that sort of sometimes treat people decently. leave behind ambitions for afghanistan. which entire military down there were facing a global enemy. madame? will get to everybody. >> related to what you were just saying, what's your position on

pakistan? your position on pakistan and president obama's emphasizing getting into pakistan and fighting the taliban into pakistan, do you think there's any validity to that, any hope that something can be accomplished? that's number one. and number two -- >> number one is complex enough. first of all, i'm not the dixie chicks and although i very strong feelings about president obama, you can read it in the new york post i will not trash an american president. so i'm just not going to talk about obama unless you've read the books. pakistan, she asked about pakistan. pakistan is a great cause, the whole nation about chubby's of course he was an iraqi. it's an artificial country that just work because all the jedi, the champion a great enemy of muslims in stunted that would be a majority hindu. think about the power in the

muslim voice in the state of greater india. while they didn't. pakistan, its only rationale for being a state is that there are muslims. if you go to pakistan, you crossed the indus river, you leave the continent in the indus river divides pakistan. in the west of the river and the cultural central asia of cash to you passions in the southwest of the louche. if the cultural separation. they eat, manners, traditions come interpretation of islam. he goat east of the river and the culture of the sub con. it's very much a sunni enforced islam. and so it's a country that just doesn't naturally hang together. most of the officers, the sunnis or the business people, the passion tribes of the northwest also furnish more of their shares of officers or traditional warriors.

the baluchis are omitted from everything. it's a country that just doesn't work. i was in the pakistani military in pakistan in the mid-1990's and is so corrupt and so hypocritical and they're so anti-american. the willing elite has been the united states for everything that went wrong. the failures because of the cia. your car broke down must be a drone or something like that. and we played into their hands because they come here and say all the right things. but the pakistani media is the most anti-american in the world by far. and it's utterly irrational. again, their feelings about the what india is taking off next-door, the great enemy, that they need someone to blame. so we are the great state. and i think we're absolutely foolish for supporting pakistan.

i think we should -- i would even closer and see. i would pull everything out of pakistan. we can't and i'll tell you i'm a moment. but india has a future for all its many problems and flaws, it is a functioning democracy. it is not perfect, it's big, it's large democratic, it's very, very correct, but they're fighting. they're still respect for the rule of law. their attempts to reform the courts. it's got a long way to go. they hindu caste system is the biggest con game and all of human history. i mean, think about it. back in time memorial a small number of people figured out how to convince the wreck of the people in times of crisis, famine, whatever, war, the small niche of the project did deserve to be protected and if you're really good deed be elitist next time around. that said, india for all the -- i think it's bs in april i wrote his book was called a million mutinies now.

it's a wild place. i've done a research project or two and it's fascinating. but that's what we should be supporting. pakistan and abandoning, but were not. the united states is a state sponsor of terror and directly because pakistan government is a terrorist government. it is supporting ali baba for many times. supported terrorist attacks against india. and after the last mumbai attacks, horrible. and the pakistanis, the isi greenlighted their cia, the isi greenlighted their attacks because they did the united states would step in and preventing any need for retaliation. and they've been gaining us for years. they attack it and yet they stop us from attacking back. so the pakistanis never have to behave responsibly. and with our idiotic military approach to afghanistan, we have put our troops at the end of a 1500-mile supply line from the

port of karachi up through the khyber and other passes in the pakistanis can turn off the flow supplies anytime they want to. in the aftermath of the mumbai attacks, suddenly there were attacks in our supply lines to the khyber pass in peshawar to warn us if we didn't stop them they would hit us. so our response to pakistani intransigence is to kid ourselves that they're going to be good alleys and we give them another $6 billion, which will go right into -- it's an incredibly corrupt country. it'll be stolen and when the aid doesn't make a to the people or even to the low-level pakistani and the g-man, the united states will be blamed for the aid they didn't get to them. pakistan will never be high as immature state if it is able to have fun with the u.s. continues to protect it. again, we put everything we had

to be tampering now because we chain ourselves to the supply route. and by the way, any commander, any officer who submitted that a cisco solution, as they tax the problem will be filled. an income, the idiocy, i don't do you with military details, but were doing things that are so utterly idiotic with fairly that future historians will marvel. now in the back, not them against the wall. [inaudible] >> i'm sorry. i'm not going to talk about president obama. i just don't do it. it's an act of disloyalty. i'm not an obama supporter, but he is my president. i'm sorry. she had a second question.

[inaudible] >> how can i answer that. i don't know. i've never met ron emanuel, i'm sorry. i'm all pretend. rahm emanuel -- [inaudible] >> the lady in pink of a second question to ask, then the gentleman in blue, then you and i will go over here. >> given the christian communities precarious position in the west bank, how would you explain the anglican churches of animus against israel? >> i can't. it's just silly. but again, human beings are hurt animals. i mean, i always say, you want to understand journalists, their people rethink their rugged individuals but they really hurt animals. and i saw that back in 2006. a few pilot fish, like "the new york times," the bbc, set the direction of the coverage and

everybody jumps on it. in a 2006, the new york times, bbc, decided that the story of the 2006 war is going to be a lebanese suffering and israel's barbarity towards the lebanese. all the star journalists went to lebanon and debris found at the same dead baby coming out of the rubble again and again and again and they all follow the same stories. and i'm sorry, when i sat there at caboose sauce for several days and i saw one other journalist on the front lines while within have it salsa. jicama from haifa, when it for few hours. you had reporters in the major international effort standing on foot with flak jackets and helmets while people were having dinner at the restaurant, but they're out there pretending the danger is right here. it was the coverage in 2006 was

incredibly corrupt, but the storyline was those bad israelis, those innocent lebanese are being tormented. and the rockets are raining down on israel. israelis are -- some are becoming refugees for the first time since 1948. others are living in basements and shelters and there is virtually no coverage. so i'm going to say a few things. kurt in the media but also fashion. how many of you have teenage daughters or granddaughters? there were some pretty silly, often revolting stuff, right? it is not thought through process of analytical decision-making. they are wearing but their friends where. an unfortunate, anti-semitism or anti-israeli sentiment can be every bit as fashionable as tattoos. i mean, don't expect rational answers to all these things.

humanity and its fits of madness -- there is no rational way to explain the holocaust. is humanity going off the rails? is humanity intermittently does. sir? you next. [inaudible] >> , former russian jew. anyhow -- [speaking in native tongue] >> the people who wanted pr, why are we having such a terrible time, you know, counter pr and the palestinian, the arab networks. why does palestine have such horrible pr, even they can put three words together to defend what they believe in what they're doing, what's going on? >> you know, you have to answer

that to yourself. i give you my personal experiences. look, when the canadian media is interested in which audience? canadian non-dance. the israeli media is interested in the israeli audience. i was the only civilian other than tickets residents whose data was all military in the press center is there comes a commando unit was there in the press center really weren't interested in me. i'm just pro-israel as it gets. and some friends that helped me get up there and stuff, but the press -- the press officers, they finally after two days got me a whipping because i'm much happier seeing things on my own, but they weren't interested in having an american reporter from the american post, the six largest paper in the united states, incredibly pro-israel, big jewish audience, they weren't interested because their first responsibility was to the

israeli audience. and they concentrated on the israeli domestic audience. so i think it started as the media aspect of that, but also it's really hard when the entire world is against you to counter argue. in the media -- i think many in israel to make cogent arguments for why the criticism is unjust, but it just goes unheard. it goes back to the herd mentality. israel is just going to be in the doghouse and you have so many in the west who have been left wing propaganda. here's another thing. people self segregate. in our societies, it's not as intense as it used to be, but they do. certain fans who will join the military. a very different kind of person generally seeks a career in journalism. and those of the journalist world and the united states certainly are overwhelmingly

left, but they're left of center. they're these touchy-feely leftist anarcho biot types of know what to good schools because you can't get a job or an apprenticeship of us went to ivy league schools mean journalism is utterly, from the american people. it's now an elite profession which it never was before. in the 60's and 70's once been of late blue profession and it's hurt us badly, which is by "the new york times" is failing. and increasingly journalist by the way we further journalist for prizes that are fighting for the audience. but anyway, i think so many of these for two generations of journalists in the united states who all went to these good schools, the look-alikes factor is overwhelmingly dominated by leftists. the myth of the palestinian suffering and palestinian right is just dominant. i mean, it's how can you possibly get a date with really hot left-wing check if your --

it goes back to my antecedents in the horse cattle. but beyond that i don't really have a good coach and answer for you i simply don't accept that it's a fad. it is fashionable once again to hate jews. it began in 1910. madame? [inaudible] [inaudible] but you also at the beginning of the lecture -- [inaudible] and constitutional legal protection of those rights alter the kind of tribalism which you

identify you as bringing down the arabic world civilizational it, which i see also was part of my futile understanding or elements of which all exist in other parts of the world. so can you answer that in which you also consider -- >> this is good, let her go. >> will use also consider the merits of pessimism burst onto this and and ideas of predictive theories of democratic process as they relate to the arab islam people because we know that there is a board and peace suggest that democracies are less likely to fight each other. >> adolf hitler came to power through democracy. it's a myth that democracies don't fight each other. human beings will always find a reason to fight.

human beings, when the fear of madness takes over. look at world war i, we are jihad germany, you know, although they had kaiser certainly had its right back. you had democracies fighting each other, so just go with that. i absolutely agree to that patriarch is part of the problem. i don't know exactly how far the literature goes in judaism. are jews familiar with the book of judith for any catholic apocrypha? it's an example i was used. judith, a nice jewish girl, she's basically good-looking men young and happily married and subfolders doctor and she goes down to the secluded place two days and they spot her beijing, peeking under, kind of voyeuristic and then they come back and telling lies about her because she rejects them, doesn't want any part of these alders. so they lie about her being unfaithful, et cetera. she's ultimately revealed to be

innocent, et cetera. the point of the story of judith and assist you in every religion, when old men make the rules, young women suffer. which is why i firmly believe that religion is so healthy and our societies now because women do have a voice. they have to be heard, they have to be heard. and in so much of the greater middle east, women don't have a voice unless it's heard screaming from a beating. so as far as being a pessimist goes, i'm really not. human beings have some pessimistic because an ugly world situation. are survivors. the cockroaches that have powers of speech, we manage to get through things somehow. but i think you make your way forward much more difficult when you lie, when you pretend that there are no bad human being, when you pretend that all want

peace because clearly they don't. the closest sunbeams come to be in a goddess taken another life. empowerment, people who have never had any power in their lives that night in a disrupted society get a gun and a little badge of some kind or a shred of uniform. and suddenly their license to kill an abuse and the people would always earn more money and women wouldn't give them the time of day. suddenly they can be beaten, killed,, whatever. and make no mistake, mr. small sliver of humanity delights, delights in harming other human beings. beating the hell out of and killing and raping and murdering jews in ukraine was not a hard days work for the errant ss officer. dad loved his work, you know, to

be flippant. and if you do not recognize that some human beings delight in inflicting pain on others, you can't achieve anything that looks like a lasting peace. and with the best intentions in the world, we try to redeem human monsters or any human monsters you want to be due? by protecting the monsters, we can than the 99% of human beings who do want to live in peace to the tyranny of the monster. you have to make hard choices in life. and this is not an argument for its just executed for shoplifter. i'm not or sharia law, but violent criminals rarely are fully reformed and terrorist, that terrorists who slaughter masses of innocent people are unlikely to come around and be really good yeshivas unit in a

new incarnation. it just doesn't happen. i'm sure if i'm very pessimistic, i'm just trying to inject a level of reality that i see missing in washington. and that's really all. but i have great faith in humanity. i'm one of those people that my wife marvels at people always expect me to be some sort of mean guy could want to kill terrorists. what to kill terrorists because i value civilization, a buggy piece, i value human rights and i'm a person, a delight in every day. on a rainy day in montréal in march, there's something absolutely beautiful about every single day of our lives if we willing to open our eyes to it. but the terrorists want to close our eyes. they want to close their hearts, close our minds impose our societies. such me fighting islamist terrorism or any other about terrorism committed in the name of any god is the ultimate

humanitarian mission. [applause] i really don't worry about the fate of jews in north america, you simply don't. i'm too thoroughly integrated in society and we just couldn't -- it's not going to turn in, it's simply not. i'm much more worried about israel. dr. concent i were talking about this last night briefly in my concern is that you basically have a crusade state model, where a civilization is reimposed on the middle east, that can't last. again, the middle east just as a nurturing and i hope israel will have a long, grand, healthy successful future, but i worry about the way the world has turned to frown against israel. so irrationally, it is irrational. but again, israel is a very done

by the success in the sense that it shames everybody else who fails. i mean, how could these jews from the shtetl, these despised jews who somehow get to a palestine that's absolutely denuding of greenery, that the soil is ruined, it has no hope, disease is endemic. and making their own picks and shovels in many cases. they begin to till the land. and they literally come the cliché is true. they make a garden in the desert. and from the garden in the desert, they make a high-tech society with a standard of justice and legality unprecedented in the entire history of the middle east. how can israel not behave by the people who have been there on interactively in a failed and failed and failed again and failed again and failed again.

how can israel not be hated by pakistanis who feel that everything? the supreme energy that went into israel, reinvigorated incredibly after the holocaust when the stakes were so utterly clear, there was close to a miracle as we will see on this earth. and those who can't replicate the success because of their own failures will hit the success. it was like he old russian joke, there's two peasants and one peasant has a beautiful cow and the other peasant doesn't. and this peasant just envious that caused so much and loves that cow. and for the poor peasant one day, he's kicking around in the forest and he sees a woodsman tied to a tree and releases the wood spirit and was processed

thank you aired as a reward for your generosity, i'll give you anyone wish. and the poor peasant says, kill my neighbors cow. unfortunately, that is the attitude too much of humanity instead of working. i mean, think of the incredible synthesis that could occur if the palestinians were willing to work with israel, if arabs were willing to work with israel, how much progress, incredible process could be achieved? but to do that, they would have to give up israel as a is blamed for their failures. so again, certainly as a non-jew, as a citizen of the united states i think i can look at israel fairly object of late. and when i see israel compared to a squalor that surrounded it, the self-indulgent and

simultaneously self grandes and squalor i believe israel is worth fighting for. ladies and gentlemen, thank you. [applause] [inaudible conversations] >> robin stone, who is gerald boyd? >> gerald boyd with many people. he was a complicated man having grown up in st. louis in

poverty, race by his grandmother after his mother died and his father left for better parts of new york city came up in poverty and worked his way up, decided he wanted to be a newspaper man early on in his teenage years in the 11th grade. in pursuit after a scholarship at the university of missouri working up a post dispatch in st. louis, his hometown. very early on he thought i want to be a journalist and i want to be good enough to work at "the new york times." and it's that tenacity that enabled him to overcome all the barriers that he faced. so he was a mix of those people as well as a young man who was meant toward by the jewish shopowners in his neighborhood. so he has some influence from the coopers as well as a rabble-rouser on campus at the university of missouri. he flexed newfound black power

in the 70's. he walked around with the big afro and a cheeky talking about power to the people. oliphant was gerald boyd, including the manager who eventually ended up at "the new york times" come arising in the ranks, having covered reagan in the white house and bush in the white house. >> as a reporter. >> as a reporter. >> for "the new york times." >> for "the new york times." and a reporter for the st. louis dispatch as well. with many these fassett. >> and her husband. >> how long were y'all married? >> we were married 10 years. there's a love story that the part of my times in black-and-white. it's about journalism. it's about "the new york times." there is some juicy stuff about the times, but ultimately i call this book a success story because it's about this man who has a young man goes on a

mission and he ultimately achieved that mission. but he was also in search of not just professional excellence, but a family, the family he had lost a child and he wanted that so much. so there's this earth smokeout story as well as this professional gross tory. and i was fortunate to be a part of both because at one point he was my boss as well. he recruited me and hired me at "the new york times" so i worked for him for a while. >> wendi gerald boyd die? what was his final position at "the new york times"? >> gerald died in 2006 november, thanksgiving day actually. a very rainy thanksgiving day. >> unexpected? >> no, he had cancer, lung cancer. >> smoker? >> you been diagnosed and it came quickly.

he died three years after leaving "the new york times" in the wake of the jayson blair plagiarism scandal. and when i go to universities and i talk about gerald story to journalism stories, i asked how many people have heard of jayson blair and i see a lot of hands. and then i say before you heard me coming here, how many people had heard of gerald boyd? very few hands and that's one of the reasons i'm telling a story, because it's a fascinating tale, american tale, but it's also a tale about journalism in many respects. so he was managing editor at the time. >> under? >> howell raines. he and hal were attacked by arthur sulzberger junior six days before 9/11 to lead the paper. for six days into the job, you know, we're all headed with this tragedy international terrorism. and so they are thrown into

covering the 9/11 terrorist attacks, the wars in afghanistan, warners in iraq and they are pushing to establish their mandate on the paper and put their people in place. and the staff was taxed and tired and, you know, pushed and pulled in all kinds of directions. and i call that candling of the situation, the environment there. and then along comes jayson blair, this young reporter who plagiarized, stole from other people's stories and made stuff up out of whole cloth and he was discovered in a call that the mash that lit the fire, ignited all of the unrest and uneasiness and unhappiness. and so ultimately in the wake of the scandal, howell and gerald were asked to leave the times. >> the fact that jayson blair was african-american, was that important? >> absolutely. it was important and how the

story played out. i don't think it was important in the fact that he was a plagiarist. jayson blair was troubled and he acknowledged that he had mental, emotional difficulties and not all played out at "the new york times." but the fact that he was black led some people to assume that gerald, an african-american man who promoted diversity in the newsroom was in some way aiding and abetting this journalistic criminal when that was not the case. and in fact, you know, jason did not like gerald, as he wrote in his own but because he could not get the support that he needed from gerald. so gerald didn't hire jason. he didn't supervise them directly and you certainly did not venture him. but the assumption was that there was a connection between the two. and i think that affect good

gerald's tenure, at the end of his tenure quite successfully. >> your husband died in 2006? four years later you're publishing a book with his name on it and an introduction by you. >> welcome i did the afterward. "my life in black and white" is gerald spoke. after he left the times, he wrote a draft from hebrew to dross. the first one was 800 some odd pages and i remember telling him nobody cares about the kids from the old neighborhood. take some of that stuff out. and then he read a shorter version, two and 50 pages and i thought it was too truncated. it started with an entry in the newsroom. and i said wait, what about the rest of the story before that? so i married the two. after he died and i finally gathered myself together, i knew that this was a story that needed to be told. so i married the two versions and put on my reporter's hat and

interviewed some hoax, sidney cooper, the jewish store owner from back in the neighborhood. i interviewed his hands, and laura and ambrose who is no wonder what best to fill in the gaps i attribute his first wife to get some color for their wedding, to help fill in some of the blanks and also to describe anna, who was the woman who gerald left his first wife sheila for. and sheila put on her journalist hat and graciously answered my questions. so i did a little work, but it was for the most part your output. these are his words and it's his story. >> is on the little tricky there. some of the interviews you have to do. >> they were a challenge, but you know, all in the name of good journalism. >> tell us about yourself, robin jones. >> i'm a journalist and gerald used to say i couldn't keep a job here today worked at several newspapers, including "the new

york times" and the "boston globe," the detroit free press, magazines including "essence" magazine, developed a sense website, essence.com. select any number of things. i'm an author myself at no secrets, no life, how black families can heal from sexual abuse which came out in 2004. and now i'm an editor of my late husband but. and so i'm looking forward to doing more good journalism in the future. >> what should people know or remember about gerald boyd? >> i think they should come away from his story with the truth and of the depth of his other and of his humanity, that he came from next to nothing, goering up so poor they couldn't afford lunch. it rectus and dinner and strove in spite of incredible to do

what i call social justice through journalism, eliminating the situations that people live in, eliminating what's happening on a national level and also that they cared about at x., about diversifying the minister and he preached a something i'll diversity of art, not just people of different colors around the table. the people who came from different backgrounds, people who grew up poor like he did, you know, people who have jewish mentors if you will, but who connected with people across different ethnic and racial boundaries. that was all what he was about. and i hope that people get a true sense of the man and his cared or and his humanity. >> now some viewers are going to hear the word social justice through journalism and have an adverse reaction. >> well, and he would probably never describe it that way, but that's what i am not the stories

that he was intimately involved in and that he was most passionately about, the series how races in america for which the times when it pullets there, one of nine pulitzers with which gerald was connected in his 20 year tenure at the times. i mean, that was the series that described what gerald called the silence is an interracial relationships that lead to misunderstandings and frustrations and anger. and he, you know, and his colleague let the reporters and editors to produce a series that really explained and eliminated the dynamics and racial interactions. so when a sense i call that an active social justice, to get in there and to explain. children of the shadows, the series that eliminated children