>> i just ask one quick question before we recessed. i addressed this to our first two witnesses. if the big movie houses that we hear would stay true that their word and refuse to participate, will your contract be viable? each of you take whichever. [inaudible] >> thank you. i apologize. i'm new to this bike bob, too. there is an enormous investor class that actually has investments to mr. moore's comments. it actually has investors here and we think that makes a very legitimate market all by itself. if not the npa letter than the other smaller studios would participate. and i was at a conference who was enthusiastic about the changes. it doesn't represent the entire industry and will have a very

successful market. >> thank you. >> to add to what mr. jaycobs shared, a notable hollywood individual once said where there's smoke there's a smoke machine. and we think that certainly is the case here. there's viable use for this product and a wide group of recipients looking forward to using this product. >> thank you. we're going to recess now until these votes are completed. and sometimes they drag out a little bit. but there's four votes i understand. the first one is a 15-minute vote and a 5-minute vote. so we'll come back as soon as we can. and we'll try to finish at that time. i apologize for the inconvenience. but like you, i have no control over that. thank you very much. we'll be in recess.

[inaudible conversations] >> i would call the meeting back to order. mr. moran would be here shortly. he said it's okay to commence without him and we will in the interest of time. i'll have a couple more questions and we'll yield but back again to our first two presenters. mr. jaycobs, mr. swagger. how far ahead of a movie premier will you offer the contract on that movie's receipts? >> in the case -- in the case -- i'm still getting used to this excuse me me. the use of the canner exchange the provision is up to a year but we expect it will be up to six months. >> six months. >> in an initially proposed, we're looking at four weeks.

>> okay. who will be using these markets for price discovery purposes or bona fide hedging in your opinion? >> well, again to reiterate my opening comments, many deals are negotiated on the basis of what a box office potential will be. the amount of advertising that is justified by a film will be reflected by the expectation of that box office. the number of theater screens and seats that are allocated to it. it will be based on that sort of decision. again, i think it in the forum context if the price of soybeans or cotton is high or low there's an allocation question that the farmer uses. in our case we see those forms being used here. theater screens, advertising budgets, investment decisions can be made using those prices. >> in fact, it off add to what mr. jaycobs shared, one of the reasons for starting off with a box office weekend product is the sheer fact there's so many contractual obligations tied to

the success of the box office to the television and satellite providers. where do they pay for that? who get the contract? to the dvd distributors and such. there's a lot tied to the success of the box office. and again, the list of natural users -- the original screen play users debt and equity investors, the investment banking syndicates, the talent involved in the films, studios, both npa and the other many studios, banks and lenders and the copromotional marketers. >> thank you. you heard me ask about the iowa futures. these markets are admittedly small and they exist nonetheless. and all your concerns could also apply to these contracts. however, our democracies has managed to survive these election markets. if we as members of congress could continue despite contracts are people are allowed to invest

in markets why can't you and why are movies more special than elections. >> first of all, i was unaware of the iowa situation. because of its educational purpose, it's part of the -- as i understand it's part of the curriculum of the university of iowa. >> well, it started out that was the purpose but then they let others invest in it. that's probably some of the reason for the question. >> sir, first of all, the betting on the outcome of an election, i think is sort of a time-honored tradition in american politics and british politics. and so i distinguish that from the situation we have here which is an attempt to cloak in legitimacy of a futures market something that is highly speculative. and something that has as its

base, as its index something that doesn't exist. in an election you know how many votes are cast. ultimately when the votes are tabulated. one of the things i'd like to point out in terms of how the movie box office reporting works, i think you asked the question mr. berkowitz. there are no numbers reported. what is reported are estimates based upon surveys and electronic feeds from theaters. and indeed, the very tracking service that the exchange is proposed to rely on, ren track which i'm very familiar with for a number of years has in its terms of service a disclaimer in terms of the use of the information and the reliability of the information because it is just that. it's an estimate. a pretty accurate estimate. but no money changes hands

anywhere in the industry based on what's reported in variety byren track. -- by ren track. and no money changes in the money downstream. those downstream contracts, for example, television contracts, paid television contracts -- those are negotiated years in advance and they're based on film rentals which is the individual share between the theater owner and the studio when it is ultimately settled up and that is never reported publicly. 'cause that's personal -- private information between the two contracting parties. >> well, thank you. at this time i'd like to recognize mr. marshall. >> i was struck by your testimony, mr. moore. it was, as the chairman described to me enthusiastic and i thought probably pretty authoritative. i don't think we're really competent to make this judgment.

i think it's something that needs to be left to the cftc and the experts within the cftc. and i certainly think it's clumsy at best probably inappropriate for us to start listing different products that are not going to be subject to futures. what i'm interested in is sort of general guiding principles. and you mentioned that you didn't think it was such a good idea to have the firewall so insider information no matter where it comes from is available. you don't worry that a the effect of that will be to cause manipulation inappropriate ways and effectively undermine the attractiveness of the investment from the perspective of people who know dag gone well will be the guns that will get the information and know which thing this thing is going to move. they'll be dumb.

of and they'll be chumps on the other side of the wall. and in such a rifle inquiry, what's going to be the success of this particular venture? would there be a market at all? >> i believe there would be. i believe that the same comment could be made with respect to every market. that there's people with more information and some with less. and that is, in fact, the basis for our capitalistic system. that is the basis for a free market exchange. the same could be said with respect to farmers being insiders because they know on the ground whether there's crop infections. whether there's infestation of locust or something that before the -- >> so your basic response would be, look, this is something that's been a valuable tool available to other kinds of investment decisions. make it available. either the market will take advantage of it or it won't.

if the presence of narrowly focused insider information with regard to the end result where box office receipts are concerned for a particular product is a worry then the investors won't step up. let the market figure out what -- >> yes. i would say -- there's two separate issues. one is up until the release of the film. and there's been confusion among the members on this issue so i would like to be precise. as to insider trading prior to the release of the film, i believe strongly there should be no limits at all. that's the -- we're going to let the market decide. and i believe that you want to disseminate the information through pricing and that's the point. and in particular, number one, the truth is there are no secrets in hollywood. the moment the film has trouble it's instantly on the blogs and the trades. the truth in hollywood nobody knows anything. nobody knows what that box office will do.

many -- the top executives at the studio have all the inside information in the world are often wildly wrong on whether a film will flop or not. there's just an endless, countless examples of films that have flopped that people thought were going to be huge and vice versa. no one could have predicted "paranormalaa -- paranormala activity" was going to be big. >> are they robustly traded? >> there's an company that's offshore that's unregulated that is permitting box office betting going on right now. >> mr. jacobs mr. swagger, the otc market, are there swaps, derivatives that do essentially what you're proposing to do on the regulator markets? >> yeah. i mean, i don't draw the comparison quite as closely as intrade. i think the statements made earlier are more consistent with

what we've seen is the hedging that we've seen is a transfer of risk through the securities market not through the futures market. that's the mechanism we've seen. >> i completely agree with that. the notion that would they not use this hedge quite honestly in our work with our constituents at the mpaa, they were working on the development of different products that would meet economic needs that they have. and the ability to collect data was not available 5, 6 years ago in a relative form that it is today. and i think if there's a concern about the value of that data that's being collected, that's a greater concern than something that has to do with cftc regulation. if we're understanding from mr. pisano that his studio manipulate data that put in 10-key reports from conglomerates from studios that would be a great concern. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you.

the chair recognizes mr. moran. >> mr. chairman, thank you. i heard -- i think it was mr. jaycobs talk about cftc and the public utility of this exchange. and yet we heard the general counsel that's not one of the criteria the cftc look into that. what's the public utility? what's the public benefit of this exchange in this kind of product? >> well, i think it's twofold. there is the -- what we call in this industry the price discovery function and other folks would say, what's the box office going to generate from an economic value point of view. and as we heard here many decisions are made whether that box office is going to be strong or weak or whether you take the risk of that or not. and its investments decisions made by individuals in advance of even knowing what films would be produced with the money that they've invested. it's screen allocations.

it's the budgets for advertising. there are a number of business decisions that are being linked to that box office value. >> and i assume then that the theory would be that those -- that the market would then become much more efficient? investment decisions, location, theaters -- decisions would be made that were based on more information? >> that's exactly right. if you have more information and equally importantly that that information can be acted on in a financial transaction so you can not only have an opinion about the value but you can actually take an action to ensure of that value. you put those two together and in every other instance where we have futures markets that has been a great been to the underlying industry. >> mr. pisano, do you have a counter-argument to that point? >> well, as i said earlier, mr. moran, nothing in the movie business today is linked to the reports of box office.

as i said, those are simply estimates that we release. our studios release and others. principally for marketing purposes. they are not reported in the financial statements in the marketing companies or the scc. they're estimates based on the ren track system. in addition, no one that i know of, and i've been in this business for 25 years, makes a decision as to how much money we're going to spend on a movie. or how many screens is going to get -- are going to get booked based on some artificial estimate of what the box office will be based on a futures trade. so there's -- there's an unreality to this market not linked in any way to how the business actually works. and that to me is part of the danger of this proposal in that what it really does is it invites speculation. in addition, according to the

phone book size set of rules that the exchanges are published, the very people that would have some information and might be able to rely on it are firewalled and prohibited from acting on it. and so -- to put it in its simplest terms, what we have is a market in search of a product that the people who actually participate in the industry don't want. but perversely it's going to impose liability reporting and regulatory responsibilities that we don't want and don't currently have. and even questionably the law as is written today has the power to impose it on the motion picture producers and distributors. >> mr. moore, i assume that you have an observation about both of those answers. in addition to that i wanted to add the question about increased or decreased investment in the movie industry. i think you indicated that as a result of this additional transparency information that we would see an increase in investment.

and i want you to explore that a bit with me. but i also -- supposedly we have some investor in my home state in kansas who wants to invest in $100,000 in making a movie, how would this help him or her's effort in making that investment decision? [inaudible] >> i can tell you all of this together and answer that -- it's a perfect question. i guarantee you that there will be an enormous flood of financing into the industry for the studios to create jobs for mr. harbinson, to create jobs for the guilds, to create more film production if there's an exchange that permits trading based on box office results because, number one, if you tell me the box office result of a film i can tell you with statistical certainty what the total income to the studio would be from dvd tv. because there's a correlation between box office and the other revenue. what i would say to your investor in kansas is right now

they have a choice to put $100,000 down and invest in either a particular film or they could invest in a slate of films. and they're going to look at you and they're going to say in exchange for what? and the answer you'll give them is net profits. and net profits is a very opaque accounting term in hollywood with a lot of ambiguity and a lot of litigation behind it. and a lot of uncertainty. and that uncertainty holds back investment. that's what holds back investors. if your investor in kansas could hedge their risk in a way that they could know with certainty that if the box office was x and they could look it up in the paper and they know what they've earned, the next day with certainty they'd have that much more comfort. they'd become free of the fear of hollywood accounting. and there would be a flood of funds of financing for the market. i represent -- this is what i do for a living. and i can tell you i've had talks with private equity funds who would flood this market with financing if there was a hedging opportunity available that they could protect themselves. they've told me this.

and i mean hundreds of millions of dollars. there's no question about it. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> you're welcome. mr. kissell, questions? >> thank you, mr. chair. mr. jaycobs, and i'm probably going to repeat some of the questions that have already been asked. but i'm trying to once again just trying to understand this. i kind of agree with mr. marshall, that -- while it's interesting to hear your comments and your positions, this seems to be a decision best left to the cftc and their expertise of understanding this at much greater levels than i would. mr. jaycobs, why do you want to invest -- why do you want to set this market up. these guys don't seem to want you. why not take your money somewhere else? >> well, cantor has had 10 year commitment for the entertainment business broadly speaking, excuse me. so this is part of that commitment.

we think that very much to the professor's comments -- we think that it's the transparency and a public marketplace that enables us to do financing of films. without that, we're trying to create investment under the cloak of a market where valuations are being determined arguably, you know, by mr. pisano's organization is they assess what films are valuable and what films are not valuable. so we think that having a public transparent marketplace is a predicate to doing all forms of other investments. and in that sense, i agree with the professor. >> and mr. pisano, why -- i know we've talked about this. but why don't you want their help? they seem to have some money there. the equity would seem to be something that might leverage your investments. why don't you -- why don't you want the help? >> speaking just for my members, we have perfectly adequate tools to finance our motion pictures and all those tools have been

discussed so i won't go into it. what we don't want to do, what we don't want to do is participate in a highly speculative, unreal -- basically gambling casino effort to raise money. that's not good for our industry. it's not good for our companies. and as mr. harbinson said, it's not good for the creators who are involved in the picture. individually. and so while one could postulate theoretically that new financing opportunities are a good thing i think it's a bad thing when they're like the synthetic derivatives that basically destroyed the financial structure. this is not more than synthetic speculation. i'm perfectly happy to have people make money who are speculators, but there has to be a broad economic purpose. and we simply don't see that here. but we do see an opportunity for abuse, manipulation, and the kind of financial chicanery that's gone on in this country for the last five years.

and that's why we're as opposed to to it. >> thank you, gentlemen, for your patience while we were voting. thank you for being here today. mr. chairman, i yield back. >> thank you. mr. marshall, you had another question? >> mr. moore, you alluded to reasons why mpaa would not be interested in having this kind of credit facility available. you say that the effect of this would be to enhance dramatically the amount of investment that's available to fund films. so, hence, it would be boon times in the film industry. besides just saying they're wrong in their evaluation of this, which you clearly think they are, are there things about how mpaa is structured, the existing order of things that would be disrupted by this that,

you know, some sort of vested interest that you could protect and share with us? >> no, i really do believe it's simply the fear of bad tracking. and the fear that will lower attendance to a film. and i think it's a fairly myopic view without taking into account there's going to be good tracking that will increase attendance. and it's kind of ignoring all the other benefits. and i also think it's just the fear of what's new. i think it's been a historical trait of the mpaa and the studios and i think they would ultimately come to embrace this. >> so you don't see any attempt to defend turfs that exists right now. those sorts of things -- concerns that sometimes come up when new products are offered? >> i don't believe so. >> mr. jaycobs, mr. swagger, same question. >> i can only rely on the comments mr. pisano just made. excuse me. the major studios don't need this. they have plenty of financing. they have very deep corporate pockets standing behind them.

i would point out that they have closed several new line, vantage, miramax were closed underneath the big studios. and if you have a public marketplace that creates greater public financing the independent folks -- lionsgate is one of them will all have the ability to get access to funds that right now for the most part can come only from the mpaa or its members. >> mr. swagger? >> i'm. -- i'm sorry. would you mind repeat the question. >> it's the same question i asked mr. moore. i'm wondering in your opinions, mr. moore, mr. swagger, mr. jaycobs, you're in favor of doing this. making this credit facility available. is there something that you perceive mpaa trying to protect, some existing order of things that would be disrupted by this that explains why mpaa would be concerned.

mr. moore says no. he thinks it's a legitimate worry about what would happen to the prediction of success or failure where a movie goes. and, you know, would -- the existing order would prefer to lead that to critics and whatever else, you know, that is presently around. and not add yet another thing, speculating on success or failure. mr. jaycobs is suggesting that there's a little bit more to it. that mpaa would be perfectly happy with the existing order of things since financing is available for it but not for the smaller ventures. this would create more financing for the smaller ventures. >> i would completely agree with that statement. if there's an action taken to prevent these products, the action is really just saying there's six studios we want to protect and we don't want to protect the rest of the talent that's out there. we have great people on our board there have been involved with film financing. and this is certainly a move if indeed the constituents of the

mpaa are all really supporting this, what we've learned indirectly working with those constituents, they're very open to not only this product but other products. so i would even disagree with mr. pisano's statement that they're all opposed to this. it's direct conflict of what our experience has been. >> in fairness, mr. pisano, could you give your perspective here. >> i was speaking on behalf of the mpaa member companies. but we have in the record already a statement from the independent film between television producers association which represents 150 independent producers of film and television. in fact, in terms of that organization that's probably the majority -- the majority of the films produced every year by their members. and they're as opposed to to it for all the reasons which they set out in their filing and i won't repeat them. so it's not just the six studios who's opposing it.

it's the independent film association representative that are opposing it also for the very reasons set forth. >> mr. harbinson? >> yeah. i'm a little different than the rest of the panelists. i'm a working person that represents working men and women. sort of i bring a different perspective to this. but from a perspective of the people i represent, it looks very much like the wall street guides are trying to do for the motion picture industry what they did for the real estate and the mortgage banking industry and we don't it. we don't want any part of it. it's been very articulated by the mpaa and it's been articulated by us and the independent producers. and i'm hoping the committee sees it that way. and realizes that all of this is gambling for a select few to

make money at the expense of those of us who make motion pictures. >> mr. moore? last word here in response to mr. harbinson. i keep hearing it's gambling and wall street and synthetic -- >> i hear it but in truth and, in fact, it will -- i wrote this article seven years ago and it's attached to the material that i submitted to this committee that i believed it then and i believe it now that we need desperately a transparent, efficient market to generate substantial financing for this industry. the wave of equity from new york and the private equity funds for the last five years has dried up. it was a total of $13 billion. it's gone. mr. harbinson should know that film production is way down.

salaries are down. prices are down. profits are down. films are going bankrupt. mgm, miramax is being sold. you know, there's a number of other companies that are on the verge of bankruptcy in the entertainment industry. they need financing. this is a viable, efficient, transparent approach to bringing substantial financing to hollywood. it will help the unions. it will help the guilds. and it will help the studios. >> thank you, mr. chairman. for your indulgence. mr. pomeroy, any questions? >> yes, mr. chairman. let me acknowledge at the outset i know nothing about the motion picture industry or how it is financed. i have been interested in the concept of the futures training relative to potentially assisting in adding security to the investing. the highly risky investing in motion pictures.

to me it seems like this could work fairly nicely. you would have basically a hedge. you would put it out there and you would basically be able to put a block on your downside exposure. and that this technique could bring more investors to the party because they're going to have of a position that they can secure, they know their risk isn't unlimited. mr. harbinson, i guess i'd direct this one to you. it seems to me that more participation in the investing in movies would be to the interest of your members. and yet you've taken a position against this bill. have you evaluated whether or not this might be a means to get more investing and, therefore, more opportunity? and indeed more independence? i have a theory, utterly

baseless other than my own conjecture that possibly some of the opposition from the motion picture association is because they're the bigs. and if you've got back-stop on risk, well, you've got more potential investing. you're going to maybe have more little ones. and that's more competitive in my element. for your members it might be more work. i'm puzzling with this issue in that way. i'd like your response on behalf of your members and then maybe toss it around a little bit. >> i'll answer you as best i can. like i said, i'm a union representative. and my normal bailiwick is negotiating and enforcing collective bargaining agreements and this is all kind of new to me and i'm trying to get up to speed as best i can. i think that our fundamental objection is, you know, we're practical people. if it looks like a duck, and quakes like a duck, it's duck.

if it looks like gambling, it smells like gambling, it's gambling. we don't want to be -- and you're right. mr. moore was right. you know, the industry has suffered. and it has suffered as a result of the financial crisis that's now being dealt with.

>> there are loss of things to evaluate risk and how you price risk protection. so you do it basically in an open and exchanged type of way. the markets place determines how you reach an valuation and puts a valuation in place. i'd like to hear from mr. jaycobs. i see my time is just about up. i have a minute left to bring your perspective onto my conjecture here. >> yeah. well, that's exactly -- that's exactly our view is history -- this would won't only case in history where that result was not achieved. we have great appreciation for mr. harbinson's guild and the other goulds. -- guilds. >> the decline in production has

been dramatic. the studios have shifted their production to blockbuster productions away smaller films. i had an opportunity to present our side of the story up to that point we hadn't. the folks at the director's guild explained to us and i thought it was a very simple concept. if we believed this will race raise more money and there's good arguments for the industry and there's good arguments in that -- in that discretion we would have to be convinced that there was not a reputational risk that because a market was sold off unfairly that that reputational risk would look bad for our people. and i fully understand that. and i think that's where the cftc's role is so important here. is that we have to make sure for the investors that are in the market, for the creative people who are involved in the process, we have to make sure that we have a level playing field for the entire market. the cftc is expert in that role. and we trust their judgment to come up with a product that will

achieve the greater good. >> i did think that reputational risk is an interesting element. again not having a background in the industry. i thought the point made by the motion picture association was interesting. that you have basically "wall street journal" coverage of the -- of the first weekend box office, the short hit in terms of the futures. and basically you've got the destruction of a picture in it's first few weeks in the marketplace. it would compound the risk already experienced by a weak opening box office or maybe critical reviews. so i understand that. i don't know that's determinative, though, of the question of whether or not this might be a useful way to back-stop risk for purposes of inducing investment in u.s.-produced films. we will continue to reflect on it. one question maybe to -- this is a quickie.

as we look at futures and exchange trading do we sort through the many facets of our economy and say you can futures trade this one and you can't futures trade that one. you can futures trade entire futures but you can't -- i mean, in that way is it a common approach? as a member of the ag committee for many years, i've not seen legislation that would identify an industry and say, well, you can't do it for this one. are you sure? >> i think rich can add to this as well. from our perspective no new exchanges can start and be successful unless they're into a new product working. working at ubs as a banker and working as one of the constituents of the mpaa they were asking us if we would do slate financing which is let's finance maybe 10 films in a package. and the challenge in slate financing is simply you don't

get the best of the films in there. it's not -- it's not economically a position that we wanted to take when i was at ubs. and at that same discussion and the same studio to which our name was derived from, we started talking about futures contracts. opening up that dialog, helping them understand there may be some new tools. so personally as an entrepreneur, i felt this was an opportunity to take my hard earned dollars and mr. harbinson, i'm a working man myself, i grew up on a farm. and spent many years of hard years and also went through marine school and my parents grew up in the auto industry and i created new jobs to service the entertainment market. and the concepts we came out with are concepts that were brought from the entertainment industry itself. now, granted, i don't have the years of experience mr. pisano has in the entertainment industry. what i have is the ability to

bring talented people together. one of the top people in movie financing from one of the top banks serves on our team. one of the top producers who produced a lot of great movies that each of you would know serves on our board. one of the top individuals who built the most modern studio in hollywood is serving on our board. and manages $200 million revolving loan funds. we have a lot of talented individuals. pete warsell used to be the former chairman of nato. one of the organizations that's supposedly against us. before that, he did -- he was an m.d. he was president of united artists the chief operating officer and said i wish we would have had these products before. mr. pisano and i were talking right before we came back here. we were talking about an area called century city. century city in l.a. is of the result of a studio almost going

bankrupt, a major studio, one of the mpaa constituents nearly going bankrupt and having to sell off their whole entire back lot. had there been futures products to protect that industry not only would have it prevented something like that occurring but it would have indeed inject capital to help build and create jobs. and at the end of the day, if the six constituents of the mpaa don't want to use the product, that's fine. i'm willing to live or die on that sword. but we know -- i didn't start a business in investing millions of dollars on pure speculation that a field of dreams. i'm going to build it and i hope they come. we build it on foundational knowledge that there was a dynamic need for this industry. >> i don't know if we're over our time. i think your question was history. i have the -- i've been a 25-year futures industry veteran. so i've seen a lot of new markets get created. and what i can say is common

among all of them is the industry that was -- energy comes to mind in particular. where a new futures product is introduced and there's significant industry opposition. if we go back to the early '80s, the seven sisters were opposed to the idea of creating the nymex market even in the financial markets there was substantial opposition to creating a five-year futures contract for treasury bonds when there was a 10 and different ones and even those interests all aligned to say we shouldn't have such a thing. the only case in history that i can think of and is well documented where congress has stepped in and now started to carve out is the 1958 case where it occurred in onions. >> onions in 1958. >> but for onions we pretty well let markets determine what's going to make sense relative to futures? >> that's correct. the philosophy always was if the product is poorly designed -- again, dealing with the very important issues of we cannot have manipulation.

we must have a fair playing field but the commercial success -- the question of whether or not they will come or they will not come to the field of dreams in iowa has always been left to the -- basically to the marketplace to determine. >> thank you very much. mr. swagger, very strategic getting your farm boy background in before the ag committee. [laughter] >> we're way over time. >> the sources show -- may i clarify one issue? >> sure >> there's a lot of confusion with this smoke about gambling. can you clarify this issue in 20 minutes because the chairman is about to gavel us down. >> yes, i can. thank you chairman boswell. gambling, somebody takes on a risk that's the studios. that's people who finance the movies. futures market, you assume and spread out the risk. it's not gambling. it's taking the risk that's there and existing and spreading that out. and that's what a futures market has been, has always been and in this situation as well.

thank you, my colleagues. >> you're welcome. before i go to closing arguments i would like to recognize my ranking member, mr. moran. >> no, mr. chairman. thank you very much. perhaps many of us came here with preconceived ideas. i thought it was a very useful hearing. something we ought to do more often and congress get a perspective so we can make correct decisions. and i thank you for conducting this hearing today and i look forward to what i heard during the testimony. thank you. >> thank you. and i concur. i think it's been very informative. and i appreciate the effort you made to come and inform us and share with us. we're likely to have more questions as we go forward. it's been a learning experience. and thank you for giving us your time today. we apologize for the interruption for the votes. but those things happen. so at this point i would share that under the rules of the committee, the record of today's hearing will remain open for 10 calendar days to receive additional material and

supplement the remaining responses from the witnesses to any question posed by member. this hearing of the subcommittee on general farm risk management is adjourned. thank you. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> next on c-span2, a memorial for civil rights leader been minimum hooks. -- benjamin hooks. >> see the winners of the studentcam documentary.

they submitted videos on what are the country's greatest strengths or the challenge the country is facing. watch the top winning videos every morning on c-span at 6:50 eastern just before "washington journal." and at 8:30 during the program, meet the students who made them. and for a preview of all the winners visit studentcam.org. >> civil rights pioneer benjamin hooks died last week at the age of 75. here's the memorial service held for the former head of the naacp in his hometown of memphis. we'll hear first from tennessee senator lamar alexander. this is an hour and 45 minutes. >> charismatic leaders and like everyone here and many who are not here, i've lost a good and close friend of nearly 40 years. when i think of ben hooks i think of france sis. -- francis. i don't remember ever getting

ben on the phone until i talked to francis. she was his assistant. she was his advisor. she was his sweetheart. she was his ally. and she was his friend. and we love francis. and think so much of her today. [applause] >> ben was a patriot. he served in the war and he saw he had fewer rights in some ways than the prisoners that he guarded. he was a storyteller. a great storyteller. we saw a glimpse of it. he could turn a phrase inside out and turn the audience inside out while he was turning the phrase. inside out. he was a visionary leader. i talked yesterday with sarah moore green of knoxville. she's 100 years old this year. she was on the board when ben was elected leader. and she said he lifted us up. at the naacp. [applause] >> ben hooks was a mypeer. -- pioneer.

he was a pioneer as the first federal communications commissioner in washington. and he may have been a little bit a pioneer than either you or i knew at least in some of his dreams. in 2007 when the president gave him the medal of honor, i hosted a reception for him and for francis in the senator's dining room in washington in the capital. it created quite a commotion. everybody wanted to see dr. ben hooks. jack kemp came by. senators of both parties came by. everyone who worked in the senate wanted a picture and autograph. and after it was over, i talked with him a little bit about the conversation we had in 1978 when i was elected governor. and i asked him to be in the governor's cabinet. he politely declined because he had more to do, he said, and he was right, helping the naacp and the nation. but then he said, lamar, he said, you know, i didn't want to be in the governor's cabinet. i wanted to be the governor.

[laughter] [applause] >> isn't that right, francis? and he said i had a plan to be the governor. he said i was going to be the first african-american republican governor of tennessee. [laughter] >> i was going to carry memphis big. get all those republican votes in east tennessee. and that was going to put me in. and i bet ben hooks could have done that if he'd tried. ben hooks that day was sad and a little angry at the injustice he saw in our country. but like our late friend from tennessee, alex haley, he always could find the good and praising. he could see the good in this country while he also saw the injustice. he could see what we still could do. which may still be his legacy. so today we celebrate and we find the good in our -- in the

life of our dear friend dr. ben hooks. and we praise god for his life among us. thank you. [applause] >> i'd like to identify if you please, my good friend, one of -- get up there. you got a new job there. you can still stand up. [laughter] >> my man. take care. peace. and power. witnessing as fellow clergy who are presently standing at his shoes the reverend dr. benjamin hooks, we bring reverend robert mason pastor of the greater middle baptist church here in memphis, tennessee, and revend kenny flowers of the baptist church in detroit michigan.

and then following those presentations, we will be blessed by the musical talent of kurt william. he's one of the outstanding brothers. put your seatbelts. on -- will you please come in that order. thank you. >> to the hooking family, and specifically mrs. hooks, pat, raymond, mildred, i greet you in the name of jesus and in this august body here at the temple of deliverance, the judiciary, my brothers and my sisters and the members of the clergy and members of the greater middle baptist church.

i'm privileged to stand and speak on behalf of the middle baptist church. but also to speak in a very experimental way of the relationship and the friendship of the hooks family with myself and my family. my relationship with the hooks stand more than almost 47 years ago as a student at carver high school where mrs. hooks taught me science in the seventh grade. and then from those years i was tended by their influence and certainly their warmth and their friendship. never realizing that 43 years later that i would return to the place where it all began for me. and to assume the pastorate where the famous son of memphis

and the hero of the state of tennessee once stood. i'm blessed to be in that place. but as i reflect upon the life of dr. hooks and as we're gathered in this august place, it came to mind as i listened to him over the years and listened of the greatness that he has done and even experienced many of the things that he has done, it became obvious to me that the centrality of his life and the propelling force undergirding the very principles and the very nature of his determination to seek change in this society was in his faith. he had a faith that will not -- that would not shrink and will not crumble under the brink. for he was convinced if we were to believe christ and accept christ for who he was and what

he stood for, then we must reflect that in our relationship with each other. it has been said that you can always determine how much a person loves the lord. by his or her relationship with human kind. without a doubt, dr. hooks' relationship with human kind was never wavering nor uncertain. and so as we come together today and we remark of his accomplishments and the things that he has done to improve the quality of life for the totality of the human condition, we praise god for him. but also we come to understand death. death is what god has brought in to being for the coming together of people. but what i discovered is something that is very interesting in how god describes

death in the holy writ. in revelations 14, he said blessed are they who die in the lord. for they rest from the lord. lord, how could you use such language? i've lost a loved one, we've lost a hero, we've lost a friend. we've lost a gallant warrior. we've lost one who was anchored in the dirt and in the soil of holiness who fought for injustices and righteousness. how could death with blessed? it dawned upon me that that was god speaking. and there is a language that god can use that you and i cannot use. and the language he uses conveys a meaning that is far beyond our ability it off comprehend or to interpret. the bible was written in two languages principally there were other languages.

but the one that we understand most is greek and hebrew. the greek definition for the word blessed is mekarious and it has three definitions in greek. the first definition is happy. god is happy. for those who are blessed and who are precious in his sight. those who gave themselves to a purpose beyond themselves and benjamin lawson hooks did. he gave unselfishly, gave willingly. he gave believing that he could make a difference in the world. t only for himself and maybe never enjoyed for himself or by him. but there would be those who would come behind him who would benefit from what he had done.

he was saying that in order that you and i who yet live must learn to give beyond ourselves. and th secondly there is a definition which says you're well off. well off, well, let's look at it. well off declares that what he had here was not as grand as what the lord had promised. those who died in the lord would reap the benefits and the blessings of their service. while many of us live and do, work and serve and labor, to do all that we seek to do, we may never receive the thanks from those whom we've served. but god is ever so grateful. that we have loved him enough to give the very best that we have. that others might be blessed. sort of god says to him, benjamin hooks, you're well off now.

you are in the presence of he whom is holy. you're in the presence whom you've talked about so long. you're in the presence of the place that you've described that you've never seen before. you are in the presence of the angels who sing day and night. and you're in the presence of the place where the sun never goes down and shines brightly. then congratulations. congratulations. i don't know about you, my brothers and sisters, i'm waiting on the day when god will say to me and as he has said to benjamin lawson hooks, well done. thy good and faithful servant. congratulations. [applause] well, let us not just come to celebrate his death or to speak kindly of him.

but let us do as the orchestra who was forced to play in the absence of their conductor. they had prepared for this great presentation in europe. and the conductor died. and many of the members of the orchestra decided that it would be best for us to cancel the performance. and somebody said, oh, no. we worked too hard and too long in order to present this moment. i tell you what let us do, let us go forth andr's and. and remember what he told us. my brothers and sisters, today let us remember what benjamin hooks taught us. as the tea party rises, let us remember that we must stand gallantly.

as the throes of ugly raises its head remember what ben hooks said and when we get weary, let us remember what jesus told us. let us not get weary but we shall reap if we pay not, ben hooks is reaping because he did not faint. congratulations. cares all passed. home at last. on the streets of glory. [applause] ♪ >> to the undershepherd of this house, the superintendent hawkins, to the presiding clergy, two of my long time friends, pastor billy kyls as

well as the reverend dr. julius c. hope, to the hooks family. ...

>> only dr. hooks could do that. today, my brothers and sisters, we celebrate the life. remember the legacy of our fallen leader, my friend and my brother, the reverend dr. benjamin lawson hooks. i stand here today on behalf of the mayor of the city of detroit, the honorable who came by on monday. when dr. hooks body was lying in state comic he gave me a personal request. he said, on the flowers, can you do me a favor? and i said what is that? he said, can you speak on behalf of myself and the city of

detroit and let mrs. hooks know how much detroit loves dr. hoo dr. hooks. on behalf of detroit, michigan, we say to memphis, and the world, thank you for letting dr. hooks a abide with us for 30 years in detroit. we gave him a presidential sendoff on monday night when his body left from the church. i also received a phone call from the president of professional national baptist convention, doctor smith. he asked if i could convey to you, mrs. hooks, do you, pat, that the entire family share with you in this great loss. and he sent over a letter for me to give to you on behalf of progressive national baptist convention. but i also stand here today as

pastor, the greater, missionary baptist church in detroit, michigan, where dr. hooks served for 30 years, from 1964, 1994. i never thought 31 years ago, 1979, when i first met dr. hooks at the dexter avenue baptist church in detroit where he came to preach for our 60th church anniversary. i was in all of this great civil rights leader. i was in all of the naacp leader. little did i know, one day god would allow me to succeed him as pastor. immediately after succeeding dr. hooks, i establish pastor

emeritus day, in which dr. hooks and mrs. hooks will come to detroit every year in august. he would preach, and the church would honor him. i thank god that last year in august, when he preached, we unveiled a portrait of dr. hooks that now hangs in the bl looks fellowship hall at our church. they love to dr. hooks and dr. hooks loved raiders new mount mariah. from alberta blackburn to macy right, from the bronx to tom and michael turner, roslyn and randy brock, to david akins jackie lacy and donald, to tom turner, to jackie turner robinson and amy thompson turn, the list goes on and on, countless other as to

how much we love dr. hooks. greater new mount mariah, thanks god and thanks to hook family for allowing his body to lie in state there in detroit on monday night. but personally, let me say, as i take my seat, that i thank god for sending me to succeed such a great leader for such a time as this. dr. hooks was a champion of freedom. warrior for justice, a prophet of god, and indeed a prince of a preacher. he was my friend. he was a mentor. he was an elder statesman. more than that, he was a servant of god. this past january, january of 2010, dr. hooks insisted that i

come to memphis to preach at greater middle baptist. he insisted that i preach the kingdom to a sermon. he told me when we talked on the phone, he said, brother flowers, you have so much of dr. king's spirit in you, he said i want you to come and preach for the king celebration at greater middle. little did i know that that would be the last time i would see him alive. and i thank god that day, as he struggled to get here, the greater middle baptist on that day, i watched him as he reflected upon the life of dr. king. he said, brother flowers, i am only here because you are preaching. he said i would have stayed home because i've on dialysis, i am in bed, but i had to get here to hear you preach one more time.

i am so glad that he got there. i am so glad that i had a chance to talk about my mentor and my friend, dr. king, in honor of dr. hooks. so glad that my late adopted mother, coretta scott king, dr. hooks had a special bond. i am so glad today that we had a special relationship. he told me, he said, you are my pastor, and you are my friend. as i leave you, mrs. hooks, i say to you, that i remember the last sermon he preached last year at the greater new mount moriah church, the sermon topic was entitled it's your turn. little did i know how prophetic that message would be. it's your turn. the lord called him home last

thursday, those words rang out in my ear to let me know it's your turn. it's your turn, roslyn brock, to go to another level. it's your turn. it's your turn, been jealous, to go to the next level. it's your turn. it's your turn, marc morial's, took up the kings highway. it's your turn. it's your turn, michael hooks the second to go on high. it's your turn. it's your turn, to lift up the bloodstained banner. it's your turn, all of the young freedom fighters to stand tall and to go higher, because soldiers of old are leaving here one by one. goodnight, dr. hooks. i will see you in the morning. thank god for a job well done. servant of god, he is a servant of god. the best of your service, weary of life and the battle is one.

be not dismayed when men won't believe you. he will understand and say, well done. or when i come to the end of my journey, weary of life, and the battle is won, carrying the staff and the cross of redemption, he will understand and say, well done. well done. thou good and faithful servant. well done. benjamin lawson hooks, well done. we will see you in the morning. in the morning. were bells will be ringing. in the morning here good night, dr. hooks. i will see you in the morning. [applause] ♪ ♪ >> let the church say amen.

church say amen again. all right. you all get what i say? i'm about halfway through. let's make sure that we come forth as we do the essentials, make any sense of but make it short. help me, somebody. so help us out. brother kyle, will you? take care. >> amen. the superintendent has asked pastor brandon border would speak on behalf of the church of christ all over the nation. pastor porter, you may come at this moment, and then we will hear the music from, none other

than, kurt we low. >> and bless you. certainly, i stand on behalf of our exciting vision, but also bischoff patterson junior. our senior bischoff in this area and also the chairman of the general assembly. mr. blake wishes he could be here with you on today, but his schedule would not allow. his heart certain is here with you. and he said unto him sent this note for you. the church of god in christ join the rest of the world in honoring the extraordinary life of dr. benjamin lawson hooks. dr. hooks truly was a renaissance man. he was an attorney, a criminal court judge, businessman, a respected civil rights leader, a powerful preacher of the gospel. he served as the first african-american commissioner

for the federal communications commission, and later as executive director and ceo of the naacp. president bush awarded the presidential medal of freedom to hooks in 2007. and president obama recently characterized him as a trailblazer. others describe this remarkable individual as a mentor, down to earth friend, a man of action, and an icon. without a doubt, dr. hooks was a true american patriot, a peaceful warrior, and a hero to all who fight for equality and also justice. he challenged us to learn from the struggles of past generations as we progressed towards the future games and possibilities. his passionate battle against

racial prejudice, bigotry, intolerance, and equity, inspired us to join together the prominence of peace, fairness, and the opportunities for all. dr. hooks will be sorely missed by his relatives, church, family, and others who loved and admired him. we mourn his passing, but celebrate his life, ministry, social contributions. he leads a wonderful legacy of hope that would live on in the hearts for many years to come. the world is a better place, and we are better human beings because he lived amongst us. even under the hand and the great seal of the church of god of christ, this 21st day of april in the year of our lord, 2010, bischoff charles edward blake, 70 in succession

presiding bischoff, church of christ, god bless you. thank you. [applause] >> we are moving right along. let me ask at this moment that all of the elected officials were present here today, would you just stand or this moment. all the elected officials, in the audience, all over the building. [applause] >> thank you so much. it is my understanding that we have now a representative from president barack obama. and i'm going to mess up his name. if i tried to call. michael, are you here?

i don't want to mess up your name, michael. tell me your name. say, you all thought it was an easy name. it's not an easy name. >> thank you. good morning. i am humbled to be here. to mrs. hooks and family, gathered dignitaries, on behalf a president obama, our wonderful first lady, senior adviser, thou richard and the entire white house i want to offer my condolences to all those here who loved and learned from dr. hooks. to his family, i offer my deepest sympathy on your profound loss, a loss to this community, this city, and indeed this nation. while president obama could not join us today, i have a letter with me from him and in a moment i will share his words with you

as someone who stands on his shoulders and learned from dr. hooks life work. i confirm to you firsthand that from coast to coast, millions of mourners are reflecting in the morning of the life of dr. hooks today. they have lined up to see him in detroit. they have written their thoughts in newspapers, the naacp, and the white house. dr. hooks has left a profound mark on our country, and not many people can hope to accomplish in several lifetimes what dr. hooks accomplished in just his one. a soldier, a patriot, a businessman, a preacher, a tremendous orator and a lawyer. he served as the head of the naacp for 15 years, leaving this iconic organization through stormy and challenging times in our nation's journey to perfect this union. and he will remain always a motivating force in our constant pursuit for fairness, equality,

and adjusters. we will all see to that. those of us who mourn his loss and remember his life. of life in which benjamin hooks showed us how to do justice, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with god. president obama mourns his loss, too. and i now want to read the letter that he has written to the family of dr. hooks, but especially to mrs. francis books. april 20, 2010. dear francis, michelle and i've were so saddened to learn of the passing of dr. benjamin l. hooks. please accept our sympathies as you mourn his loss and reflect upon his life. as a civil rights leader and a pastor, dr. hooks hold an extraordinary place in our history. he led the national association led the national association for the advancement of colored people, served on the recommendations commission, and are the presidential medal of

freedom. he will be remembered for his dedication to our nations founding princip, and for his faith. and he will be sorely missed by all those who knew and loved him. michelle and i will keep you in our thoughts and prayer. me his strength and guide you, and may your cherished memories of him continue to bring you great joy and pride. sincerely, barack obama. thank you. [applause] >> now let's hear this wonderful musician. [applause] ♪ ♪

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[applause] >> everybody stand up. everybody stand up. let your blood circlet just a minute. don't go nowhere now. everyone stand. thank you very kindly. you may have your seat. they are trying hard, they're trying hard to get all of this, trying to get media to cover this. they will be cooperation. it would be very good if those of us who are coming at this time so she could make a, if we could get our conversation to at least five minutes or less. to think we can handle that y'all? can we handle that? can we handle that? [applause] >> what is happening here, we ourselves don't want to be just

consumers. we would like for the whole nation to be, and we can get close to it by following that direction. thank you very kindly. >> kirk whalum, well class musician. [applause] >> board and bred in memphis, tennessee. does that mean i can do five minutes? [laughter] >> all right. someone representing the governor's office, i didn't see him, is the governor here? all right. someone that i have so much love and respect for, he was the youngest person to speak at the

march on washington, congressman john lewis, 23 years old when he spoke following will be interim mayor joe ford, and then it will come back with a musical tribute by one and only deborah thomas. congressman on the way to being a senator? [applause] >> francis, my friend, my sister, and all members of the hooks family, thank you very

much for asking me to participate. you know in love is all. we all were one family, one people, one house. you may not know, i first met ben hooks when i served on a board the southern christian leadership conference beginning in 1962 under the leadership of martin luther king junior. when i first met ben, i knew then that this man, this man of god was a remarkable man. ben believed in his heart, believed in his soul the impossible was possible. he believed that this nation had the capacity to live up to the highest dream of democracy.

and he was not afraid to hold the standard high. but maybe that's because ben was an extraordinary human being. a good man. he was a minister, a soldier, a lawyer, a judge, a federal commissioner, and a civil rights leader. it's unbelievable, for 30 years, this man, even pastor of two churches at the same time, one in detroit and one in memphis. i used to enjoy appearing on programs with him, or walking through the national civil rights museum here in memphis with him, as i did a few years ago. reminiscing about good friends come about dr. king, roy

wilkins, thurgood marshall, and so many others. like whitney young. he was a wonderful man, a wonderful friend, who worked with his wonderful wife, francis, to bring about changes in america. today, i believe that ben hooks it should be remembered, should be remembered as one of the founding fathers of the new america. he had the capacity, he had the ability to bring the dirt and filth from underneath the american rug out ofhe us to deal with it. ben kept liberating, not just the people, but a nation. there are people who, along from time to time that talk, and talk

about missions and mandate. some of them are like a firecracker, they just pop off. and others are like a pilot like, they just keep burning. ben was like a pilot light. they said others not to the front line but they always play it safe. ben hooks never played it safe. he was not a broadway joe. with his booming voice, his fierce intellect, his commitment to justice, he had the power to move an audience and inspire the people to action. ben hooks was a warrior, a fighter to the end. a man of great persistence and great determination. ben hooks, this meant i got to

know. i saw him in the board meetings, francis, they listen. this is what we should do. he was a kindred spirit. and this nation called him, he was there. when the problems of our society committed his leadership, he joined the struggle and he never looked back. he never gave up. he never gave it. he kept a fake and he kept his eyes on the prize. he was a man of vision, a man of courage. ben hooks fodder for what was right, what was there and just. . .

your presence here and your greatness is embodied in ben hooks and the respect that you pay him. the only thing that's probably more difficult than following john lewis on a program would be to follow ben hooks to the pearly gates. so in some way i'm fortunate

here. ben hooks was one of the warriors of the spoken word and one of the giants of oratory. it was always an honor to be in his presence or hear him preach or eulogize. nobody has distinguished and great as all the charger people that are here could eulogize a person the way ben hooks could. he had a special talent. i was privileged to be with him at the white house when francis and he were there and he received the presidential medal of freedom. he was so proud to receive that medal. and he was even prouder his wife francis was with him. i was proud to be there as well. he was a lucky man to have francis hooks. francis gave up being a teacher to be a first lady. gave up being a teacher to be at the side of benjamin hooks. he was a lucky man. when he came to congress in october and spoke at the rayburn building, francis was with him.

and congress people revered him and were honored to be there and hear him speak. john conyers and i authored a resolution that passed the united states congress honoring the life and achievements of dr. hooks. speaker nancy pelosi personally signed it last night. and asked me to present a copy of that resolution francis, which i will do in just a moment. [ause] >> the speaker who broke a glass ceiling asked me to give her personal condolences to the family and her regrets nor not being here. ben hooks came to the inaugural yesterday because of the terrible weather he was not able to attend but he was there in spirit and in the hotel. i extend my condolences with

hooks' family, his siblings, patricia, his daughter, my friends michael and michael, jr., who he took in as if his own children. i was lucky to have him as a friend. times are getting tight in this country but they're getting better. but times must be getting tight in heaven as well. because god took benjamin hooks and dorothy hite, a life well lived. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

>> abraham lincoln died on april 15th, 1865. when his cabinet secretary heard the news, he said now we belong to the same ages. exactly 145 years later, on april 15th, 2010, dr. benjamin l. hooks departed this eternal life and now too he belongs to the ages. mrs. hooks, family, friends, honored guests superintendent hawkins and members of the clergy, today is a difficult day for me as a county mayor. and a long life friend of dr. hooks. this past thursday the world

lost one of the pioneers of the civil rights movement. and a voice for oppressed people everywhere. citizens of chevy county lost a leading minister of god's word. and a respected neighbor. but for those of us here today, we have lost a beloved mentor and friend. for over 40 years, dr. hooks was a close, trusted friend of mine. to my father, and to the entire ford family. what inspired me most about dr. hooks all of the years that i knew him was his personality and his integrity. when he spoke to senators and sanitation workers, he broke bread with presidents.

it didn't matter if it was a plumber. he preached to congressmens and convicts. and dr. king was the same man all the time. and no matter where he was or who he was with, dr. king provided a voice for those less able to speak for themselves. i will miss my friend. but like you, i rejoice that reverend benjamin hooks is with the lord. indeed, a life well lived. [applause]

♪ ♪ ♪ one of these mornings ♪ my lord ♪ one of these mornings ♪ my lord ♪ one of these mornings ♪ i'm going ♪ to live on high ♪ o one of these evenings ♪ my lord

♪ one of these evenings ♪ one of these evenings ♪ i'm going home ♪ as soon as my teacher ♪ ♪ ♪

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♪ >> sounds like we're still having church. [applause] >> let us hear now from a young lady who works so hard at making our national civil rights museum world renowned, sister beverly robinson. [applause]

>> doctor hooks is somewhere smiling today. i feel like we have had church and three or four sermons so we need to pass a collection. you know, i just wanted to say, ms. hazel, i was a little upset so learn that dr. hooks had a term of endearment to you. you were hazel. well, i want you to know that i felt that i was the only one that dr. hooks called by a term of endearment. and he called him a tree shaker and a jelly maker. and, you know, i have known dr. hooks for about 20 years. and the funny thing about dr. hooks is although he knows

my name is beverly robertson, he would call me out publicly at any event. he'd grab the podium, rev back and say, ms. bellamy robertson. so that was a tradition for dr. hooks and whatever he called me i responded to it. to give and not count the cost. to fight and not heed the wounds. to toil and not seek for rest, to labor and not ask for reward. such was the life of dr. benjamin lawson hooks. dr. hooks was persuasive. he was passionate. and he was powerful. in his book "the march for civil rights," dr. hooks tell us that the road from slavery to freedom has been long and arduous.

he reminded us that the same constitution that made our ancestors three-fifths of a person ultimately became that indispensable vehicle that was used to get to freedom's door. and let me tell you, dr. hooks didn't just knock on the door. he kicked that door in. he became the first black criminal court judge in tennessee history. he was also one of the attorneys representing the sanitation workers in 1968. and was one of a select few african-americans who received the presidential medal of freedom. now, dr. hooks was persuasive. he loved to preach a story. and he often told the story about a young man who was with his father at church. the pastor was constantly

looking at his watch so the young man turned to his pastor and to his father, father, what does that mean? and the father replied, well, if it's a catholic priest, he'll be through in 5 minutes. if it's a methodist minister, he'll be through at noon no matter what. but if it's a baptist preacher it don't mean a thing. of course, present company excluded. dr. hooks will never know the real impact and power and influence that he had on everyone's life. but i want to relate just a short story about a gentleman who attended our freedom award event last year. and he shares a beautiful testament that is indicative of

his importance. he says he's a white man who lives in los angeles. he was born in 1968. so he knew little about the seminal years of the movement. but somehow he self-connected to him. -- to them. he decided to come south for a genuine southern experience. he found our website, bought a ticket to see the dalai lama whom we honored last year. and he wrote the following. the dalai lama delivered a beautiful acceptance speech. humble, charming, funny and right on point. i did not think that experience could get any better but then dr. benjamin hooks gave the benediction. i don't know how to describe the

electricity and the passion, power and raw emotion that that benediction sent through me. we were holding hands and singing "we shall overcome" with folks who knew the struggle. they weren't trying to recreate some sense of history. but these people were imparking lot history that they themselves had lived. it was a once in a lifetime experience for me. and it touched my soul. in a way i can never explain. it changed me. it was the ultimate southern experience. but more importantly, it was the ultimate american experience. so, dr. hooks, i realize today that this is your last benediction. and as we bid you adieu, we may miss your presence, but your

spirit, your tenacity, your achievements will live on in our lives and the lives of our children and our children's children for many generations to come. so we, those of us gathered here, may have lost a soldier, a gladiator, and a drum major for justice but heaven is welcoming an angel. thank you. [applause] >> when i first moved to memphis in 1959, one of the first friends i had was ben and francis hooks. they just took me in and treated me like family. and i shall never forget that. i used to go down to the courthouse after his appointment and just sit in the back of the

room. and he would ask me is anything wrong? i said, no, i just want to see you preside. the lawyers in those days would not give ben hooks, though, he was a lawyer -- they never called him attorney hooks. they called him ben, old ben. and i would watch that. lawyers, judges, they simply would just not use courtesy titles. and after the appointment i go to the back and i would get charged. i'll tell you. to see those same lawyers having to say, if it please the court, your honor, may i approach the bench. [laughter] [applause] >> he went over to the library to get the students out -- some students were arrested for going to the library. they were put in jail.

ben hooks went down there to get them out. and the same library is now named after -- [applause] >> what a remarkable individual. and what great help he had with francis d. that's all i ever called her, francis d. we're moving along well. mr. warren g. lee from the omegas, are you here? some of these names i did -- are you here? oh, come right on. >> good afternoon. >> good afternoon. i'm going to take this opportunity to have a few words

about our brother, brother benjamin hooks. the omega pi are here. and i'm going to ask them to stand at this time. [applause] >> steven said once you live, once you love, once you leave a legacy, obviously brother hooks has lived a great life. it's why we're here today. we're also here to say on behalf a from omega that we feel standing here to support you whenever you need, all you have to do is call any omega or all the omegas, we are here for you. also his legacy -- you know, when i think about dr. hooks, brother hooks, leadership come to mind because he was inspirational. he was exciting. he was motivational.

also i think about the passion he had to right the wrongs of this world. and the joy of preaching and proclaiming the righteousness out of the father. i'm also reminded of the sacrifice, the tremendous sacrifice that he made to do all that he has done. so as we come to celebrate brate his life, what is it that we can do to preserve the legacy of brother hooks? 'cause brother hooks was a great leader. if you think so, please give an applause. we think he was one of the great les. [applause] >> here's my question to you as i take my seat, look how much more he could have done if we had been better followers. look how much more he could have been -- he could have done if we had would have been better followers. now, i'm not going to say that

brother ben here is a benjamin hooks. he's a good man. he's fighting a good cause. let's make ben a good leader. let's preserve dr. hooks' legacy by being better followers. thank you. [applause] >> let us hear now from one of the nine black lawyers when i was here. russell sugarman was one of them. come on, russell, share some thoughts with us. [applause] >> i used to come to his office -- i used to come to his office and have a line of people waiting to get waited on. so i would holler to the secretary, do i have any calls yet? just like i worked there. [laughter]

>> i'll try to be brief. i've known ben for all my life. i think the best thing about him he was a friend of mine. we've had some shared experiences. he's had some of his and i had some of my moan. -- my own. ben having getting some kids out of jail after a sit-in in hayward county. and we were going down a.w. willis and me and ben were driving a brand-new car. i think he got it the day before. and jim lawson who was here then was sitting next to him. he'd been over to india. and he's a practitioner of resistance through creative suffering, you know? so we get up to get these kids out of jail.

and it was dusk and we were in the town square and it looked like a faulkner movie. the place with new wagons and farmers with pitch forks and rusted pickup trucks with farmers and shotguns. and there were three sheriffs standing across the front of the jailhouse. and we managed to get up to the jailhouse before he recognized before we were and got inside the jail. and the sheriff had the deputies keeping these people away from the line, 10 feet from the chains that separated the parking lot from the entry to the jail. and we got in to talk to these kids and luckily that jail has been built by the wta under president roosevelt. and it was fireproof, bulletproof, and safe. [laughter] >> so we weren't in to talk to those kids and say you know it's kind of rough out there. you're probably safer in here so we -- it's getting dark. it's get you out of here in morning. do you think you'll be all right? >> yeah.

>> we'll have to get ourselves out of here. we go outside. and the sheriff says i don't think you go that way. what other way is out? well, i'll take you down a different road. so he said you follow me. so he got in front of us. he told the bailiff, the one deputy he had to get behind us. you follow me so we got this route and turned to the right and then go out in the dark and then -- we started weaving this black top. and we realized that this is the way to get us off the main road. so we go back -- ben is driving and jim lawson is looking at him, damn this is a funeral procession and the reverend hooks says what the hell do you say something like that at a time like this? [laughter] >> we were driving.

and we go down this road. we pass a cop parked on the right side of the road. and there was a crack at the same time. there was a groove appeared before the windshield. so we all ducked and i could hear that engine revving and it sounded like mother's milk picking up. and i looked up -- i felt guilty. everybody is down behind he's cushions safe and he has to sit up and driving and i looked up and he was down, too. [laughter] >> i said ben, can you see? he said i can feel the shoulder. that made a whole lot of sense to me and i got back down too. that was his run-away station wagon going 65 miles an hour. we were lucky there wasn't a curve. there was an experience i'll never forget. i love to tell that story because i'm still here to tell that story. the best thing i can say about ben he was a friend of mine. thank you. [applause]