how will you ensure the safety of the astronauts in this new proposed program and will not do have one safety standard for human in space, not one safety standard for government developed programs that are very task and another for commercial companies? one commercial companies that they can reduce ecru vehicle and three years. well, that is promising. it also sounds ambitious. my look at the history books showed that the shuttle took 12 years from when president nixon approved due to the first human test from 1969 to 1981.

again, tell me about the safety standards and are we going to have one set of safety standards for low orbit and commercial vehicles and so on because it would unite hope that there is one safety standard. the next night and it's been pointed out already by several speakers. i was a member of the aerospace safety advisory panel, the nasa advisory panel that advises me. when i was a member of that panel as john frost will testify after me, we were concerned that nasa was not sharing its human reading requirements with the vendors. i think and i hope mr. frost will attest to the fact that since my becoming the nasa breeding standard with all the perspectives unders whether small or large business commode entrepreneurial or not. we are actually developing a human rating requirements for commercial vehicles that will

take the massive number of engineering requirement and various other requirements and put them in one source document that would be able for all who wish to enter the commercial launch market. in terms of safety. safety and reliability are very interesting factors. and when i talk about safety of the vehicle and testing myself that the vehicle is safe commentary number of criteria that have to be met. the number one criteria is demonstrated lability. and i would point out that we have three candidates vehicles at the present time. ares one, d-delta nine and taurus two. to demonstrate reliability of all vehicles is we've never flown in ares one. we've never flown a falcon nine. we've never flown a taurus too. so why their predictions of the safety of all these vehicles in the reliability, they're equal. there'll zero. i will also play now when we flew the sea shall come when making to nasa in 1980, the predicted for lability and save

effect is for this a shuttle i think was going to be won in 1000 were going to buy 50 flights a year. i think no country most people now that macs are way too when i was in the astronaut office -- i think really been a year in which we flew 93 shuttle missions icing it now was an incredible year for us. to demonstrate reliability of the space will shuttle is one in 125 or somewhere in the neighborhood. i would caution anyone to get carried away with predicted safety and predicted reliability numbers because we all know as we say in the military that no plan survives often a line of departure. so i am very comfortable that i can guarantee, before i put a human being in any vehicle whether its government produced or commercially produced, it will meet the safety standards that have been required. >> but do i take it to say that there will be one safety standard? >> there'll be one safety standard for any vehicle that

carries human beings from this planet to anywhere. >> well, thank you for that. i would like to ask for a contract termination question because if this is what the president is proposing, how do you intend to handle contract termination, the workforce dislocation, bork for obviously and i know others will be asked others about safety. what is your plan for the contractors who will be forced to terminate your work of this proposal is accepted and are you planning to terminate all constellation contracts? i mean comedy issue in technology is one thing, the this has tremendous implications for a budget. >> on a chair, the process of

transitioning the constellation program fort worth when i inherited to where it's going to be in the future. the term contract termination liability from potential termination liability is one that has caused a lot of angst recently because it is a term that is used in procurement and it is a factor in all of nasa contracts. every nasa contract has a stipulation that the contractor should provide for termination expenses. and every contractor knows it. so we are not changing requirements. we are not modifying requirements. those have existed in prior nasa contracts and exist in our contracts today. >> i'm puzzled by this. how do you square -- you've been reminding contractors of their obligation to have reserve funds. how does that square with the fiscal 2010 appropriations bill that prevents you from terminating where restructure contracts for this fiscal year?

>> i cannot terminate anything that has to do with the constellation program and we are doing that. and if i can just make one minor discussion. we do not have to maintain funds. we are reminding them it is their responsibility to look at and determine i guess technically for then it to determine what level of risk to companies willing to accept in terms of being able to handle a termination officially come. so we are not telling them that they need to reserve funds. we're telling them they do have to be aware of the fact that termination liability, some of them imm by their contract and if the company's determination of what level of risk they want to incur, whether they put aside funds or whether they assume they're not going to need them. >> well, i want to ask more about this. >> guess, man. >> i want to make sure other members have a chance. senator bennett. >> thank you, madam chairman. i appreciate your courtesy in

allowing me to participate in this. general bolden, i'm a businessman. if i were sitting on the board of directors and you are making this pitch to the ears as to the direction into which you're going to take the company, i would tell you you haven't made the sale. and let me give you for areas where i think you have failed to make the sale. either way, madam chairman, i have a formal statement and would appreciate if put in the record or it is for areas that i think you haven't made the sale are number one, the science. number two, protecting the industrial base, number three, the money and number four, the law. and let me run through those very quickly and then you can respond to them as he will. he made a statement just now that i find incredible when you say the demonstrated reliability

of ares is zero. now, you've probably seen this, but let me show it to you. "time" magazine, just six months ago, in november of 2009 published the 50 best inventions of the year and number one of the 50 is ares, the best invention of the year. doesn't sound like shabby science to me. doesn't sound like something that's obsolete. and they say you can contradict this. they talk about this, quoting from "time" magazine, in 2004 the u.s. committed itself to sending astronauts back to the mid-and later to mars and for that you need something new and nifty for them to fly. the answer is the ares one, which had its first unmanned flight on october 28th and dazzled even the skeptics. that doesn't sound like there is no demonstration of reliability. i think there's a definition

problem here. none of the other things you talk about can match the tested perfection of areas with the test that has dirty been done. so i challenge that one. number two, the industrial base. you said the president will make a decision as to what will be done by 2015. if you kill the industrial base of solid rocket motors now with this action, in 2015 you cannot get it back. this is not like saying well, we're going to stop by in this kind of car and we'll look at buying another kind of car or pickup truck or suv for our five years from now and there is an industrial base that will have those kinds of cars or trucks available to us yet this is the only game in town and you shut down the industrial case of rockets, solid rocket motors and there will be no contractors available in 2015 if you make a decision that's the way you want to go.

and i think that is a very significant issue you have to address. now, many, number three. you have not made the case this is going to save money and let me point out two particular things with respect to money. on senator shelby has referred to this already. the fiscal 11 budget requires $2.5 billion in constellation contract termination costs, 6 billion for new commercial providers whom we don't really know who they are, who likely will suffer the normal cost and schedule of that's been referred to in the opening statements already with their level of inexperience. an additional 312 million for money that was never planned. so come he got the 2.5 billion counties got the uncertainty of where you're going and it seems

to me and much more responsible use of taxpayer dollars would be to use the combined $8.8 billion that is represented in your budget to finish the program that has had five years worth of progress and accomplishments and is designed to deliver a safer and more reliable way to send our astronaut to orbit them something that we are just guessing about. i think the prudent financial circumstance is to stay with what we've got instead of plunging into the unknown. and looking at -- looking at construction cost, i'd like you to address what i find a significant gap in your money calculations. he stated in congressional testimony, that the ares program to fly would cost approximately $4 billion a year. doug cook, the associative

administrator for admissions recently stated in testimony that the recurring costs for ares is 140 million per flight. you've got to have a lot of flights at 140 million to get to the 4 billion per year. and i find that a disturbing kind of thing that i think you need to explain. finally, the law. this committee, congress and fiscal 2010 omnes appropriation bill expressly prohibited using any 2010 funds to terminate or in any way change or modify the constellation program. just yesterday, hek received a notice that funds for their contract under the launch abort system will be limited and no additional funds will be forthcoming after april 302010. that's a week away. it seems to me this is a clear violation of the law that says

no money -- no funds will be used in any way to change or modify the program and for fiscal 2010. fiscal 2010 has not run out yet. so to summarize, what i said in the beginning, i think your conclusion on science runs a fallacy experience that we have found with the testing of various. i think the threat to the industrial base cast doubt upon your availability to do something in 2015 if the president decides or whatever president idiot decides they want to go back and solid rocket motors they won't be able to. i think your numbers on the money go out up and i think what is being done right now is a contravention of the law. so i'd very much appreciate your reaction to those four points. >> thank you, senator. i'll try to go down the line. the first thing is the science and with all due respect, we are very proud of having been

recognized for the number one invention of the year by a number of different authorities of publications and the like. perhaps we were not very good in explaining to people that there is one access not ares. it was a segmented rocket that had a dummy fifth segment and a dummy interstage any deadliness cup. the ares one vehicle is a five segment rocket motor that is never flown. so we are very proud of ares one fax and its recognition for what it did because it gave us 700 pieces of data from sensors that were put on the vehicle and i always told people he was the greatest wind tunnel tests conducted by humans over. but that was not in ares one. i was in ares one x. and experimental rocket that we wanted to do a number of things just to demonstrate the shape and form would work.

saw the science -- >> in the interest of time, we're not going to have a debate. and if you could also -- we would appreciate the extensive data that you have, but if you could answer the question because there are several other steering. a bike to keep a >> the money -- there's a difference between the preflight cost in the recurring costs. most of the cost of shuttle in constellation would come from maintaining the infrastructure. so that's the reason that the money differences. the law, we have not terminated any contracts. we have not directed anyone to stop work on anything if you are talking about the launch abort system test, that is still scheduled for -- they may be misunderstanding your comment, but the launch abort system test is still scheduled for think may the fifth and we are very much looking forward to seeing that because it can look at a lot of data from that test. and then the industrial base, unfortunately come the solid rocket industry has been over i.

for many, many years. it was far over s. or shuttle because we said we were going to fly 100 missions a year or 50 missions a year and that's what it was such a service. we ended up playing aid missions here. it would've been -- it was over capitalist for shuttle. it would've been grossly over capitalist for constellation. and so the business decision -- sensor business mansour, the business assertion that needs to be made by the only company that's legitimately in that industry right now is how do i downsize that they want to be competitive? there's a big difference between webmaster uses and solid rocket motors. please largely netted rocket motors. there is no other use for that type a solid rocket motor. so we are carrying 70% of the industry for a capability that nobody uses that math. i am concerned about the industrial base and we're doing everything we can to work with

our counterparts in dod to work with hek to help them in any way we can because we still made solid rocket motors. >> administrator bolden, we need really shorter -- i need good answers. >> i'm done. >> he asked about the. >> i said, ma'am, we have not violated the 2010 appropriations act and the stipulations are not. i am not terminated any contracts or directed people not to come in and no, not to go forward to my knowledge. >> senator bennett, i know you have many more questions. i mustered into other members. i want to ask the administrator and also that might call it to submit other questions in writing, to leave them open for the record so that there be extensive record of these deliberations and proceed. is that satisfactory? >> absolutely, madam chairman.

absolutely think your courtesy and letting my enthusiasm and desire to engage get a hold of me. >> would've got a lot of people who want to talk and ask questions. let's turn to senator shelby, the ranking member. >> thank you, madam chairman. and chairman, i have two articles, one appeared in tuesday's globe and mail in toronto, regarding the space program and i'd like him one appeared in florida today and i'd like to ask that be made part of the record. >> without objection. >> and i'd like to quote just a little from tuesday's globe and mail about the obama plan. this plan basically they say and i'll paraphrase, u.s. president barack obama has lowered the addition of america under the obama plan, space is not the

final frontier. under the florida today article appeared april the 16th, says obama doesn't get it. space is last frontier. president obama in effect pulled the plug on our space program in a speech here thursday, talking about florida. although he masked it was some vague long-term suggestions. the late president, john f. kennedy, must've turned over in his grave. jfk loans to the moon program in the 50's because he understood that any nation that must remain number one on earth must also be number one in space. a couple of questions. it's my understanding, mr. administrator, that there's been a lot of internal discussion at nasa regarding how to circumvent for fiscal year 2010 language that limits nasa's ability to terminate or to alter

the current constellation program. given the importance of this issue, we need to understand her of the committee the legality of decisions nasa is making relating to the program if records, especially in view of legislation. could you provide to this committee, offered to the appropriations committee within the next week a letter and a decision document from nasa's general counsel regarding nasa's interpretation of the 2010 appropriations language and the applicability of the antideficiency act? could you do that? the >> i will do that, sir. >> has has not sought any guidance from the department of justice on this and if so what was the legal opinion? >> sir, i will submit that for the record. just in summary, the discussion with the department of justice had to do with termination -- potential termination liability of the chairman, it madam chairwoman was talking. >> i want to get the ares one

versus the falcon nine. general bolden come it's my understanding you have stated to congressional members that you think ares and orient are no safer than the falcon nine and dragon capsule tiered however according to july 2009th of rocket options initiated by nasa, the report states of the ares one launch vehicle quote is clearly the safest launch vehicle option and that it is superior to all other options. what other information do you have that validates the falcon nine and if you have it what you sow furnish it to the committee. >> sir, we will get what information we have, but my common to the people of the last week has been specifically when asked by senator hatch earlier, my gut tells me, you know, that ares would be safer than anything else, but that's not what the data says. i will furnish the data.

>> nuke cops who plan, the latest plan on capsule soviets understand nothing more than the space station skate by. i fail to see are reliant on other nations for access to space. we're still going to be the russians for a round-trip good were going to pay for everyone now pay the bill and are overturned vehicle. explain this to me. >> sir, the restructuring of the orion program is not desired that it be an incremental approach to develop a vehicle that will one day take us to the moon and mars and beyond low earth orbit. we need to have a domestically produced capability to get crews back and forth to the international space station and the original version the president talked about last week

would be a vehicle that we could get there much quicker than anyone else because we don't have the human rated for asset. we would send it to space just on a new launch vehicle, but it would be related to comply with the vehicle requirements for human rating for entry landing. >> general bolden, if commercial is truly the route that you're headed, wouldn't it be cheaper and wiser to just use a dragon capsule for this program? >> senator, we hope it would be cheaper and wiser and that is our long-range intent. the first use of o'brien is because we think we can get it there in three years, so that gives us domestically produced return vehicle on the international space station in three years. it also relieves some of the pressure from the commercial vendors to try to deliver a vehicle that has the human rated capability in a shorter period of time.

>> general, your four-time veteran of spaceflights. each time your price safely home, thank god. you've also been a member of aerospace safety advisory panel, a group that was founded to ensure the safety of our astronauts. of all the possible people to be nasa on its national human exploration, you're more than qualified to understand the role of safety. now you appear to be deliberately choosing to ignore safety concerns on the very people at nasa that you interested your life with and you came home for times. could you explain to the committee and the people at nasa who made the united states such a liter of space for 50 years, why usb administrator are ignoring their record is a quite a claim of engineer and excellence. >> are you referring to the asap, sir? iraq the overall safety program. >> i'm not ignoring the impetus

for another one. if you ask brian o'connor, with my conscience, i might direct to your safety and insurance, she will tell you i listen to them every day. john frost is going to come up and i think he will tell you that i listen to it every day. and we are decidedly looking at everyone's concerns on safety and that's why i can assure everybody before we put a human in a vehicle and launch them off this planet, we're going to the safest possible vehicle. it is my life. it is a nasa's core values and a lot of other companies that would say that safety is one of their core values. >> buick confirmed four times commanded you not? >> i had every confidence in the world that i was going to return safely to earth and i will be with every asked him to have weathered separately produced vehicle coming for produced recording the other vehicle.

>> that's not the message received at nasa right now. thank you, madam chairman. >> senator cochran. >> madam chairman, thank you for your leadership in this committee and mr. administrator, we appreciate your operation with this committee. when you're making the rounds of the hill after assuming the position you now have and i was very impressed with your commitment to moving forward in the space exploration program and got the impression that also includes a robust testing program. we're very proud of the fact that in my state, the senate space center provides testing facilities and experience to help make sure that we do have demonstrated reliability, which were your words, to describe your task for nasa's safety

standards. do you continue to have the view that a robust testing program is essential to a reliable and safe and successful space exploration program? >> senator, i continue holdout. there is nothing better than a robust testing program. the $312 million at the president has proposed in the 2011 budget for commercial will allow us to buy down some risk by helping the commercial industries do more tests and they may have planned in their present portfolio. so i am a believer. >> well, i was worried that the budget request doesn't have any funds that are specifically designated for the testing program at stennis space on her. >> senator, the heavy lifter potion development program is -- it will contain test that will be run at stennis. as you know, we are continuing

the retrofits to the test stand. we are to have commercial entities that have contracted to test their engines. dennis, it's critical to the title of any spaceflight because we wanted for the testing of proportion systems whether it be for the military or nasa. >> that's reassuring and i appreciate the clarification of that and i also want to let you know that we appreciate the comment that you are 100% committed to the mission of nashe and its future body and our capabilities and future in space will continue to serve our society in ways we could scarcely imagine. i share that enthusiasm and commit to you our best efforts here in this committee to identify and address the public

funds so that we achieve those goals. >> thank you, sir. >> senator boynton beach. >> thank you, madam chairman. first of all, i'd like to say that in my state and unplumbed workstation are unique in a powerful resource for our state. more than 35,000 highly skilled civil service and contractor employees work at these facilities and your agency's economic impact to the state exceeds 1.2 billion. further, the catalyst for 1200 aerospace related companies in our state companies that employ ohio. the undertow and a lot of the comments that you're getting today is that nasa has been very, very helpful to our respective states. in the constellation program has your imports and to nasa glenn.

on the other hand, last year for every dalit this countryside, we borrowed 41 cents. our debt is out of control. it's not sustainable. as far as we look down the road, we have got budget that are not balanced. and we have to come to some point where we start to analyze what we are doing. and i think that it's important that she do a better job of clarifying just exactly which are trying to get done. are you trying to get a rock you need real quickly you can go up to the space station and you think you can do a better by having the competition from the private sector. he continued to go to mars as president bush talked about. and if you are come and think you mentioned how hard it is and what we have to do in order to be judged on tribe.

the question i want to ask you is that the thing you have laid out in your budget represents a fundamental shift in the direction and fundamental shift in the relationship that nasa has with commercial companies. what was said about the way the agency's been doing business that lead the agency in this administration to believe it's needed to undertake such a dramatic overhaul in the way you're doing business by expensive because of the budget? is it because you think you can get there quicker i going the route you're going or is it a combination thereof? >> senator, i guess if i can summarize it, the number one thing is for trying to meet the expectations of the congress and the nation they go back to the 2008 that put as a primary challenge to nasa to develop a space industry.

and we see that commercial space industry of allowing nasa to focus on exploration beyond low earth orbit while the commercial industry provides access to low earth orbit. so it's a combination of things. we are not trained to do anything fast. it's always been said -- i've always heard it said, if you want a quick and fast, you'll get it quick and fast and it probably won't be very good. so speed, urgency is important, speed is not something that i'm asking my people to do with any of this. but i do want them to try to get us where we want to go with a sense of urgency. >> well, there's a lot of feeling in the country that we have to rely upon the russians to get up to the international space station. and by the way, more countries should be paying for the operation of that advocate to look into that we can get others to pick up a tad because were not uncle sugar anymore coming up, we're in a little different position.

in fact, were probably worse off than some of the people who are partners out there. but the fact that people are concerned about that. how much are they going to charge us? i wanted to go going to last? we want to get out from under them. >> yes, sir. and senator, that will require a phenomenal change in the way that nasa and its partners have upgraded the international space station. they won the fundamental agreement was that the russians would provide a is for humans to and from the international space station and massive because we have the most remarkable vehicle ever know to man to carry large cargo would provide the vehicle to carry cargo to orbit. so it is not new that we rely on the russians to get humans to the international space station and that could has always been a basic fundamental agreement and the partnership. so that's not new. the other fundamental change is that this president to his budget has decided that he must and we must build a sustainable

exploration program in the way we were operating up until now was not sustainable. that was my gut feel as an outside observer in the 14 years that i was outside nasa after maybe venus weren't coming back now. we are not going to have a sustainable pro grant. >> you're going to have to do a bit dog convincing this committee about it not being sustainable and what you're doing with the money that were going to make available to you and many of us are interested in whether or not the money that we produce put into a rightist is going to be poured down the drain or whether or not it's going to be able to stay in the game in terms of competition in order to go forward with this because of all the work that we've done. >> yes, sir. we intend to do that. >> senator voinovich, with such her testimony? senator hutchison.

>> thank you, madam chairman. and i do appreciate your holding this hearing and i would say that as the ranking member of the commerce committee, i have invited the administrator to come to a hearing next week where others have been invited, but have been told that the administrator is not available and i hope, madam chairman, that that changes, general bolden, because i think after the incredible consequences of the president's decision that i would ask you to be available -- >> senator, may inquire, the daytime and date of the hearing? >> april 28 at what time? 2:30. >> perhaps administrator bolden staff can check it while engaging in this.

>> i think there may be some confusion over lack of communication at this time. we moved it to the 12th of may and i was going to be there because i'm scheduled to be at the johnson space center on the day of the hearing that your originally scheduled. but will resolve the issue. >> thank you. general bolden, i read your testimony, i perjured testimony. over the president's speech and it just doesn't all come together. and i will say that i was one who was very supportive of your nominations for the reasons that others have stated because i knew that she would be committed to the mission's of nasa and would understand it would be a great leader. but i am concerned about a very mixed message. the president says it is committed to science. i don't see how you can have a

commitment to science, but not a commitment to having humans in space at the same time he has the space station is right now one of the key areas of science. their others, the hubble which i support completely and all of the other scientific missions, but the space station is the future. congress and the president have embraced extending the space station until 2020. though we have not assured that we can get people there. and i know you said that it isn't a change that the russians were tasked with looking people in the space station, but it was always envisioned, in my estimation, that american shuttles would be going to the space station. for one thing, you have to make sure that you have the equipment. the second thing is you need to make sure that if there are

prepares or something that you might need in the future, that you have the maximum capability. we were never going to have a gap in the beginning. on the gaps are becoming of course because frankly i think nasa has been starved throughout several administrations. so i think that you are going to have to work with us i hope in a constructive way toward keeping people in space and keeping american control over our own destiny. the emphasis to the tune of $6 billion into a very fledgling commercial capability i just think is not found and certainly not going to be reliable they

were very short. i think it was even said that you have all the expenses of closing down a contract but then we're going to have to have new contracts. so let you just say that i am very skeptical and disappointed that we would have a goal of keeping science in the forefront, but no plan to keep people involved in that effort, under american control and under the control of nasa. i think we are too heavily relying on the president's plan on commercial capabilities, which we had a year in the commerce committee. we had the leaders of the commercial, the two commercial space operations. they are in my opinion, i attended the hearing, not ready for this kind of reliance and i

think we can take that kind of chance. so let me just ask you the questions that i can. if the russians and something happens that the crew return vehicle isn't operable, what if you had the accident and that grounded the sole use for an extended period of time and we don't have our own reliable effort or it would ask you how long it would take after the six person crew that would still be aboard the international space station at certain points would have to evacuate using two of the vehicles that just experienced a critical vehicle considering it occurred in the event. i mean, what are your plans here? >> senator going to try to

understand the scenario you're placing. if that scenario takes place between now and 2015, with the existing program of record, constellation. after shuttle is retired in september or whenever we fly our last mission, we have no way to get americans or anyone else to the station. we have two vehicles on station. we would be able to get the six person crew home, but that would terminate all use of the international space station. the constellation program was not going to provide that capability. the gap that you referred to actually begin in 2004, probably began even before then. but when the vision for space expiration was given and not funded sufficiently, the gap began to materialize and grow and grow and grow. as senator voinovich mentioned, one of my primary drivers in the running to the president what i did is i could not responsibly

ask them to put the nation into even more debt at putting the amount of money in the constellation that would have been required for us to try to catch up and in fact we still would not have been able to get my god. money can do a lot of things. what i've been able to close the gap appreciatively. we were looking at about 2015 before we have a domestic nasa built with industry capability to get humans to space. >> well, general bolden, disturbing of nasa's began before 2004. >> i agree. >> it's been starved for over 20 years. and so we don't need to place blame so much as we need to address the issue. >> yes, ma'am. i agree. >> i am concerned first of all i think we need to go forward with the constellation or the next generation.

escaping from ares one to carry one x. or areas five. it is necessary. i'm not committed committed to the constellation that i am committed to the constellation to the mission, which is one of the people to and from the space station. with all due respect, i think we should be looking at not adding to the number of that would bridge a gap and it can be done if all of us were together without an additional budget over and about what the president is asking. it is reworking the budget that the president has said is the budget. but if we have over two or three years, the same number of space shuttles if you have the ability to suggest what is the sole use to take people to and from, i

think i would be much more innovative approach and it would give us more of the filling in of the gap for emergency or for the scientific capabilities at the same time that we are developing our own constellation tight operation. i hope that we can work on something that would not work were going to be closed down in september and 2015 would be the first time. in fact come in your testimony you said that we would be able under the president's plan which are supporting to put humans into space early in the next decade. well, i'm assuming that since this is 2010, you're talking about 2020. that's early in the next decade. >> i didn't make myself clear that under the president's budget and his vision we will have humans going beyond low

earth orbit in 2020 or very shortly after that. i have just elected a class of astronauts in this past year who were brought on strictly to occupy and operate the international space station. so in terms -- in reference to your concern about science we now have the capability that the fully occupied international space station to do incredible science and thanks to the president recommending that we -- and funding, provided the funds for exploration due 2020 and beyond we now know were going to attend mergers of human occupation and science being done on the station. >> i know my time is that. i may finish at the last direct question and that is the sole use of an accident and we can't get there for two years or three. how can the station survive? how is that possible? >> the international space station is, as i said, in the scenario that you mentioned in

today's environment, with the record impartially because we allow this gap to grow, there is no way to do what you and i both want to do. we will be single strain, once the shuttle stops flying. we will be just like we were after the columbia accident for a couple years. >> i think we can fix it, general bolden. a couple years ago k. five, seven, 10 is not okay. i hope all the senators interested in this will work with you, with the administration. i think we can do better than this. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, senator hutchison. there are many more questions, but mr. frost has been quite patient. it is now 11:30. we anticipate a vote over the next 30 minutes, so we want to hear from mr. frost and have time to really explore the safety issue. so ambassador -- ambassador, you

are retreating negotiations. [laughter] and what we will have will be a whole series of other questions will submit to you and to your team for a record. i will have a particular set of questions related to space science and particularly also to green science. we are heartened by the fact that the president did provide reliable, undeniable, survivable $5 billion in the science appropriations request. we just don't want to be spending money. we also want to be able to get results for our science. i'm so proud of the work that has been done at goddard. you can't beat a senator that has the hubble telescope and is based in the state, if you will, through goddard and the space fellowship institute at hopkins.

we're very proud of what we do in science. it is what the world relies on us to be able to do. we want to make sure we have money in the appropriations, but that we also have outcomes we see. so will move with that. so we will introduce you today. we will go forward. there must be more conversations on this around our mission, around our workers in the industrial base and look forward to further conversation with you. thank you very much. >> thank you. i appreciate it. >> thank you, administrator bolden the chernow calls mr. john c. frost who is a member of the nasa aerospace safety advisory panel. he comes with a distinguished background in safety, serving

both dod as well as his work in nasa and rather than going through a long bayou, i'm going to put your body when the record so really you come with extensive experience, outstanding credentials and a real commitment to both safety and knowing what government that when government asks people to do things that we keep them safe. so why do we get right to your testimony and thank you for your patience. >> thank you, madam chairman. i appreciate that and i think it's a good path ahead. good morning to you, too ranking member shelby and the rest of the committee if they have been here. i do appreciate the opportunity to approach the panel and explain our views to you. i'm very comforted to see you obviously have read what we have written and already are very tuned in to our concerns. our chairman admiral dyer cannot be with us today, but he sends his regards to you all. the aerospace safety advisory panel or the asap was created by

congress in 1968 to provide independent safety assessments and recommendations to nasa after the tragic apollo one fire that took the lives of three of our astronauts. we also advise congress on nasa's overall safety challenges and performance. we issue quarterly recommendations as a nasa administrator and would publish an annual report to congress to our role here may be somewhat unique because as we say in alabama, we don't have a dog in this fight. so, maybe we can bring a view to to this table. before i begin, i want to express a heartfelt accommodation that i believe is shared by every member of the asap, that accommodation is for the quality of leadership in the commitment to safety that if i'm been demonstrated by administrator charlie bolden. when it comes by the safety of our astronauts i can did no better the hands agency to begin. now under a key 2009 findings. first the life of the space shuttle is nearing its end.

in view of the inherent hazards of the shuttle design, the age of the critical subsystems that it contains and the need to recertify the fleet, the panel believes the life of the space shuttle should not be extended significantly beyond completion of its current manifest. to do so would require substantial efforts even after which the vehicle could not be considered faith country safe by modern standards. thick and i will enter the follow-up is really the subject today. we have found that because of the fundamental vehicle architecture choices made at concept stage, the use of the heritage-based subsystems with urban track records and the intense involvement of the experienced nasa safety design professionals him in the ares one andy o'brien offered the basis for a high degree of inherent safety. in fact, they been designed to fight a tenfold improvement over the safety of any existing

vehicles. in our opinion, such inherent safety simply cannot be taken as a given and possible alternative launchers a somewhat like to be the case. as we authority been coded a couple of times today from her 2009 report, we believe it to abandon ares one as a baseline vehicle for any alternative without demonstrating capabilities are proving superiority or even equivalents designwise are not as. we are where the commercial entities hope to provide orbit in the future. we support there were, but we must point out nasa has not yet established with the safety requirements for these commercial providers will be. the potential safety of these alternatives cannot be evaluated until the safety requirements such as the acceptable risk are proof to establish and approved

against him. the bottom line safety recommendation is not to be in the progress tamara on the program of record. before if they can provide equal or better safety for astronauts. my third topic concerns the workforce. nasa has developed detailed transition plan for carefully mapped the skills and the funding streams to move from the shuttle operation to the areas around development. if a major change in the mission of these workers is the path that is chosen, it's imperative that a new plan be developed quickly coming to clearly show these workers their place in the new vision. otherwise, we face a risk of loss of the key personnel that are essential to space safe flight. finally, i must report to that were seen examples of facility degradation across nasa. adequate funding for nasa facilities and infrastructure must be considered on an even the more visible missions that come out of these facilities.

in conclusion, manager, the asap believed that america's human spaceflight program stands at a critical junction today. choices made today will have for at least a generation to come. safety must be an inherent part of the vehicles that were used to launch disaster not. it cannot simply be added on after the fact. just as importantly, the resources provided to nasa must be consistent with whatever mission they are assigned in both the resources and the mission must be kept stable, asking nasa that is too fast or too little can only be to danger and disappointment. i'll be happy to answer any questions which are members may have. >> i'm going to turn to senator shelby to ask his question. yes many duties also related to the financial service. >> thank you, madam chairman.

mr. frost, welcome to the committee. we are glad to you here, but for the night, we appreciate your background in your statement. the future of human spaceflight being proposed and given as i understand it to companies that i've never lost humans before, that's disturbing to me because you're on panel for years has advised that they're not ready. if there is substantial risk in relying on unproven commercial providers to put our astronauts in orbit, do you have a suggestion on how to reduce that risk? >> the risk of penalties is principally the unknown nature of their abilities. if we bet our entire future as yet unproven abilities, there's risk that they may not pan out. a common method of handling that kind of is hedging your bet, or as one member of the augustine panel i believe was quoted as

saying, if it's a horserace, but on the field and then you can pick a winner a little later so keeping redundant capabilities and i've been single string to panic and guilty reviews that risk. there is a cost to that. >> a big cost of it. >> that's right. >> you believe nasa should relinquish its role in safety through rigorous testing during development and production if nasa were to allow their astronaut to fly in any space ground, commercial or otherwise? >> at the current time for nasa to put its astronauts on board something as potentially hazardous of the rocketship, they are going to have to have a robust or groom to check his safety. there may come a day when it becomes as routine as a commercial airline. that day as far away and my personal opinion. >> thank you, madam chairman. >> first of all, mr. frost, i'd like to thank you for the service that you have done

through the asap committee and also please think he other people who participate. we put a lot of time into this and we also note that there's a rate of 30 to the actual visitation that this isn't some think tank intellectual reading memos or mathematical simulation and we take to heart all of your comments including the degradation of the nasa facilities and your caution about maintaining morale and competency among our workforce. but let's get right to this whole issue of going commercial. there is an apparent intention here between boldness and innovation because technology

mascot much faster than government contracts and procurement. at the same time were not sending cases of tang into space. we're sending our astronauts and the astronauts from other countries. they rely on us. so here goes the question. when page three of your testimony, you say we have not evaluating the proposals and cannot comment on their eventual safety. here's the key point. however, we must point out that nasa has not yet established any safety requirements for their commercial providers. now, as you recall and my question to general bolton, i said is there going to be a single standard. he told me yes and then they told me they had this manual that they developed during the process of completing.

is there a standard? is there not a standard? is very a manual? could you share with us your comments on this >> i'd be happy to. we have briefed and evaluated this carefully that nasa does have a given rating and pr it's called. it was recently updated in 2008. it specifically did not address an exempted commercial providers. it was aimed at the type of program where nasa managers the hardware. and that's critical because the way you state and explain and track the safety requirements depends on the kind of program it is. if you're buying a taxi ride, you have a different set of requirements when you're developing a taxi. ..

into how they develop their lack we will need extensive testing and verification scum and that process will take longer in my

opinion the in 2010. >> so there is the process. now, there is the hope that they will be ready to go in three years. that is all part of the glory that we are hearing about that they are going to be ready to go in three years when i am looking at the development of the shuttle it follows the development of the shuttle to get there. senator shelby and i came to the congress and had worked together since we came and the shuttle had problems. but remember the shuttle was coming to go and be like the greyhound bus to wherever we wanted to go. now what i am saying though as if in fact the safety manual isn't done until 2010 and there is processes that are mandatory usually customary, then how

could a commercial vehicle just getting with the need to know in the standards be able to meet a three year timeframe? do you think that is realistic? >> i am not proceed to the development schedule. that sounds highly optimistic to me. >> i'm not trying to pin you down. i'm trying to get your experience. >> my experience is that will be a tough schedule to meet and won a safety concern that drives the panel is the designing vehicles today. there are engineers at tables picking safety factors in the design features that may or may not comply with the requirements that will be developed later in the year in which case we have to accept the risk or step back and redesign. as a mix of the hour design today without having the fondness and definite nature of the standards.

>> that is correct the attempting to design with the standards will be and if they are right we will be in good shape and if they are wrong we will have difficulty. >> okay. the next question. senator hutchinson presented a doomsday scenario when she said it i actually thought oh my gosh, she is so bright as she is. again, i think you have a flair here. when it comes to the state's program we have been a bipartisan group and for those who have the center's we put the astronauts and so on, you know, we feel like we are all in this together all the when senator hutchison said she is concerned about bringing them back, if something happens they say it would be the end of the space station. well, jack, it's also the

individual astronauts that are up there. what do you think because she talked about in her testimony, you say and the shuttle. hutchinson presents this very troubling scenario. is there a way we can have it both ways, which is to have a shoal to the commercial on reserved for rescue and fly it for more specific issues that have it in other words it's she on to something we should explore because in the written and the oral remarks you say that it's time to the time to say goodbye to the shuttle and every scientist engineer etc and nasa administrator said the same. would you tell us what you think about extending the life of the shuttle and why would it be possible or would be your observation?

>> i would be happy too. first on the premise i think she's absolutely on to something of the nightmare scenario that being a single string dependent having a human in orbit and only one elevator to get their subject to the catastrophic failure in which case it can be shut down as we have seen is definitely a high risk and i think needs to be thought of. there are several solutions minimizing the gap and my view is the best approach you could keep flying the shuttle. there is no question they will not wear out in july but it's getting old and principally it has a very high level of risk. each launch is like one chance in 78 to maybe one chance in 100, somewhere in that range of losing the crew. the more times you fly the more time you'll likely find the result. >> in other words, just to be sure, the risk analysis after a

certain date to the longer you keep the shuttle flying, the more increase risk to the astronauts. >> we don't see an increase per fly but as you do more flights it's like playing russian roulette the more times to pull the trigger the more likely -- >> we will get into the probabilities but i think we get the picture. thank you. islamic but we don't see the shuttle wearing out immediately. there is simply a great risk involved and the nation could accept that risk and astronauts i'm sure are willing to live with it. that is a high level of risk in our opinion. >> but what do you think -- you know, we all have these fantasies we did though we the world moves like the movies are now video games. could you literally take the shuttle and put it aside and keep it prepped and ready to go with a very daring rescue mission.

>> think the movie was "space cowboys," great movie. there is a up-tempo and that is if you fly to many missions and to frequently it becomes unsafe. you are pressing the crew too card, but on the other side if you fly too rarely, they lose their abilities and don't know how to tighten the bolts the use to tighten and the safety degrades greatly, and that courage is generally a bill shaped curve. concern about the reliability of that launch as it can out of the cold storage. >> well i appreciate that. this is my final question. will the asap committee be involved in assessing the safety issues of the commercial enterprises? >> yes, we've made that is central focus of the committee.

we are not staffed to a technical evaluation and independent review of the hardware but we will look at the process that will be used to do that. >> well i think these were -- mr. frost first for what would like to thank you for your answers here. i think they were very instructive. we would look forward possibly as the process of evaluation goes on to come back to you and other members of the committee. again, thank you for excellent testimony. we also welcome from the committee this issue of center infrastructure degradation because no matter what we do we've got to make sure that they are good for duty. thank you very much. the committee will excuse you but we would ask you and your

committee to be available for ongoing conversation. >> we will be happy to do that. >> madame chair i just want to thank mr. frost, too, for his answers and his background and experience of safety. thank you. >> thank you. i also note from nasa's 2011 budgets affects many states and it's interesting other centers on the topic and there will be follow-up questions that are both budgetary, problematic, mission focused and how we can do this sort of thing in this project. >> madame chair, i hope we could reserve the right to hold another hearing on this matter. >> i absolutely agree that we will hold another hearing to be able to pursue any topics. i would suggest now that our staff connect with nasa and sift

through this content friction nature of what we have listened to. i would also like to thank the members who participated for their civility and they're very insightful questions. i believe that we all focus on where we want america to be in space and how we protect americans when we asked to do things we will be able to find solutions to how we will work through these complex challenges. again, mr. frost, thank you. if there are no further questions this morning senators may submit additional questions for the subcommittees official record. we are going to ask nassau to respond within 30 days. the subcommittee stands in recess until thursday, april 29th at 10 a.m. when we will take the testimony of the three dee dee congenital eric

holder. the committee stands in recess. [inaudible conversations]

one

civil rights pioneer benjamin who died last week at the age of 75. here's the memorial service held for the former head of the naacp in his hometown of memphis. we will hear first firms to become tennessee senator lamar alexander. this is one hour and 45 minutes. >> superintendent harkins to francis hooks and the hooks family, ladies and gentlemen. tennessee lost one of its most distinguished citizens. america has lost one of our most charismatic leaders and like everyone here and many who are not here i have lost a good and close friend of nearly 40 years. when i think of benjamin hooks i think first of francis. in fact i don't ever remember being able to get on the phone unless i first talked to francis. [laughter] she was his assistant.

she was his adviser. she was his sweetheart, she was his ally and his friend and we love francis and think so much of her today. [applause] ben was a patriot. he served in the war and he saw that he had rights in the prisoners that he guarded. he was a storyteller, a great storyteller. we saw a glimpse of it. he could turn a phrase inside out and turn the audience inside out while he was turning a phrase inside out. he was a visionary leader. i talked yesterday with sarah greenup mocks the. she is 100-years-old this year. she was on the board when ben was elected leader and said he lifted us at the naacp. [applause] ben hooks was a pioneer. a pioneer at the first african-american judge here in

memphis. he was a pioneer as the first federal communications commission in washington and he may have been a little bit more of a pioneer than either you or i knew at least in some of his dreams. in 2007 when the president gave him the medal of honor i hosted a reception for him and for that was so what was so special. >> [inaudible] >> well, i was actually standing with my family and my agent and stuff. so i was getting different calls from different people, friends, media whoever, and so i was checking it, checking it, checking my phone. i figured, if they were going to call, it would be from my cell phone. it was 303. think i should answer? 303. he's like, yes, yes, answer it, answer it, answer it! okay. so i picked up the phone.

he's like, hey, timmy, this is coach mcdaniels. i was trying to act real and cool. he small talked for a second before he told me. then he's like, we traded up and we're going to take you with this pick and we're just happy to have you as a bronco and just promise me that all the things we know about you, that's what we're going to get, that work ethic and everything that's with you and what we've met with and everybody, that's what we're going to get. i promised him. he says, well, go enjoy this moment with your family. and i just said thank you. we texted back and forth a few times afterwards but that's pretty much how it went. >> [inaudible]. >> oh, absolutely. we've been getting that football stuff since first time we met. we just connected in a lot of different ways with our passion, our determination and our love for football. i think we enjoyed talking ball together. i think we connected with that.

those meetings went wonderful. and then coming into today, we were both extremely excited and it was an honor for me to be here. i just let him know that. and to meet mr. bolen and to have the opportunity to say thank you for giving me a chance and to sit down and talk to him for a minute was truly a pleasure. you know, it's something that i'll always remember. >> [inaudible] >> i don't necessarily know that i'm going to do more. i think it's a good organization. that was just kind of a one-time thing in talking about that commercial and that we had a story that we felt was a very good story, an uplifting story and something that could maybe beinspiring to a lot of people, so we felt like we had an opportunity the share that and we took advantage of that opportunity to share that story. and that's kind of how that went. that was kind of our goal with it was just to get that story out. they were the ones to help partner to do that. >> [inaudible]

>> well, i had a few on the table, to be honest with you, i had a few on the table that got pulled because of that. but i knew going in there that when you stand up for something, it's going to cost you something else. and that's always been the way it's been my whole life, but i am willing to make those sacrifices for what i believe in to stand up for that. that's my personality, and that's what i believe in something, i'm going to go and do it with all my heart and everything i'm about an i'm going to stand up for it. so i wasn't worried just because some people aren't like minded like that or they don't believe in what you believe in. and so they just pulled that from me, which was okay. i just said thank you and that's how it went. it was no big deal. but yeah, i did lose a few from that, but i consider it a blessing.

>> with the 33rd pick in the 2010 nfl draft, the st. louis rams select roger chapel. >> the st. louis rams keep their pick and they take the offensive tackle out of indiana rodger saffold. he's 6'5", 318 pounds. he allowed just one sack in 2009. he won the don howell offensive lineman award in 2009. the second team all big 10 in 2009. the rams not trading down after having so many inquiries. you would think if you invest that much money in the quarterback, you want to protect him by getting the offensive lineman. >> i think we're all in agreement. when you make a move and you have your big-time quarterback, you need someone to protect him. they want to build this football

team with youth. i think they're making the right moves right now. this year's draft for this football team is turning out to be a very smart, very intement draft, drafting for the future, being able to protect your high investment. good job right now. >> and really the rams haven't been the same since orlando pace, who was the number-one pick, had all those injuries and with marc bulger, who they signed to a big contract as quarterback, they just couldn't protect him >> exactly. >> bulger was their guy, and he's getting sacked six times a game, and he kind of got gun-shy. >> what's the one question we have about bradford and quarterbacks, young guy, physical attributes, throwing the football unquestioned, but you know what, you can't get banged around. any quarterback really gets banged around during his career could have possibilities of being in trouble. >> a couple years ago the ram, four of their five offensive linemen went down. they only have one lineman that started the season at the end of the season that's still playing right now. they still have stephen jackson in the backfield. sam bradford as quarterback

takes pressure off of steven jackson. he's one of the best backs out there. >> a couple years ago he made that statement, i'm going to get 2,000 yards that. went down because of the offensive line. you're talking about a dominant running back in the offensive football league. he's right up there, just an established football player, able to catch the ball out of the back field, run through the tackles, can do anything you want, still in that age group where he can dominate. you get him a quarterback, you can run the football, you can get offensive line protection. now you see the football team is starting to build. now you try and put some explosive pieces to the puzzle. look for the next couple picks to be some explosive players to help out steven jackson and bradford. >> what's your take on bradford? is your philosophy no way should he play his rookie year? let him sit and learn? >> i'm the kind of guy, you have to figure out what kind of player he's going to be this year for you right now. if you can utilize him and he can help you win ball games right now, you allow him to

play. but if there's going to be some problems with him as far as him learning the playbook, you don't want to stick a guy in there that has the big eyes because he can't really tell if the defensive safety is coming down to the box, if he's leaving the box, what kind of coverages that are going on. you don't want a quarterback, your investment, to be able to have difficulty reading the coverages and trying to keep himself from getting tore up back there. so again, a situation where you have to evaluate him and where he is in his process with the offense. >> all right. a couple other picks in the second round, vikings take chris cook, a corner back out of virginia, and tampa bay has just taken bryan price, defensive end out of u.c.l.a. so tampa going defense, defense, trying to get back to the old days with that buccaneer defense. we'll continue with much more from the draft and some breaking news from the nba when we return right here on espnews with eric allen. ♪

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>> mike hill, eric allen continuing to found the second round of the nfl draft. breaking news from nba. nuggets' forward kenyon martin will play tonight against the utah jazz. that series tied at one game apiece. martin has been fighting knee injuries that caused him to miss 18 games late in the season. a reminder, a huge night of nba on espn. three more games on tap, including the celtics looking to push the heat to the brink of elimination out west paimple of critical game threes on the docket.

the battle of texas, the mavs and san antonio and the nuggets visit the jazz. both those series tied at one game apiece. >> all right. how about hockey? thomas vanek is the buffalo sabres' leading scorer, but he will not be available for game five tonight against the bruins. of course, the sabres fighting off elimination. vanek hurt himself in game two when he hurt his left foot. he's out. tried give it a go, but he will not be able to play. the capitals trying to put away the canadiens winning four in a row after this series. a couple game fives pivotal. 2-2, then whoever wins... >> do they get to go home? >> new york not yet. >> not pivotal yet. >> i'll tell you what's going on, lorena ochoa is going home. the world's number-one player the last three years from the lpga has decided to retire. it's called a segue. >> i'm learning. the. you're a professional. >> that's all this is.

over the last six seasons she's dominated the tour but decided to walk away. >> this is the time that i'm ready. i always dreamed of finishing as the number-one player in the world. i always wanted to finish playing the last tournament here in my country, and i also, what is important is that i'm ready to live a normal life and to do things outside the golf course and stop doing all the traveling, all the practice and all this it takes to be a professional golfer. so that's why today i announced that i'm ready. you know, this is my time. i'm 100% sure and this is great news because i am happy, just 100% sure of what i want. so thank you. thank you for the support. >> still to come, with the fourth pick of the second round, the kansas city chiefs are on the clock. will jimmy clausen be their choice or are they happy with choice or are they happy with matt castle? - there's something for - everyone. everyone!

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on the road they are 3-6. they got knocked off by

cincinnati yesterday. welcome, everybody. johnny along with ray. this is our nats xtra pregame. lots of young nationals fans in the ballpark tonight. this is against the team that leads the national league. haeger is not -- he's only making his third start, i guess in the big leagues after spending a couple years with the white sox up and down as a reliever. eight years in that organization. you've got russell martin who's not this n there tonight. you have manny. up and down the lineup, you have guys that can stroke the

ball. and as you mentioned, matt kemp having an all-star year. >> and last night we saw a tremendous pitcher dual. jimenez got the best of the veteran hernandez. >> there's the fastball away. the big breaking ball. changed speeds so effectively but he's throwing the spot better than i've seen him in five or six years. then ubaldo threw that fastball. that big breaking ball he threw. we really never put the bat on the ball that solidly except for willie harris. he drove the ball pretty well. great matchup. >> just those two pitches.

when you ask morgan about ball game, he admits, yes, both hitchers were good. >> beautiful thing. it's baseball. it's just one of the things where he came out and we had our guy gunning too. they got on top of us there. they battled. but they know we're coming to play too. >> was there a concerted effort on your part, even when you're not hitting him, to try and make him throw as much as you could? >> we were battling. the kid is good. he had our number tonight. we go get haeger tomorrow. >> that would be today, tonight, when the nationals take on charlie haeger and company for the dodgers. when you look at the los angeles lineup from top to bottom, six guys are hitting over .3 00. >> yeah. you mentioned matt kemp with his home runs and rbis. 20 runs, 20 rbis, 7 home runs.

controlling the center field very, very well. they found themselves a star. manny ramirez has 12 hits. andre has a .388 batting average, 5 home runs. casey blake is out right now. our buddy ronnie belliard is hitting. you just have some guys that can throw some numbers at you. >> once again, the dodgers have the favorite to win the national league west. >> he knows how to put a team together and get maximum effort. it's going to be as good as their pitchers go.

they've got billingsley coming. clay kershaw is a man that reminds a lot of people of of sandy cofax. >> how about manny ramirez who did tweak that right calf again? he probably won't play tonight. the loss of him has to be terrific for l.a. >> they had a tough time last year when they lost him for an extended period of time. he's had leg problems over the last four years, actually. he's going to have to learn to take care of himself better, do strechg more. as you get older, those things keep coming back. >> as we have told you time and time again, to many things happening here at natstown. tonight is the fireworks night. debbi is on the field with some very special nats employees. >> reporter: we hear a lot about the nats in your

neighborhood. well, remember that the nationals front officers are going into this neighborhood. they've been visiting an elementary school as part of the literacy program by everybody wins d.c. this is a great program they've begun. >> we go once a week. i go wednesdays during our lunch hour. i have a 3rd grader. a little girl. it's a wonderful experience. i have three sons. it's an experience for me to read to a little girl. it's been quite rewarding for me. >> let me start by saying it's a great program. it provides self-esteem to young kids that otherwise wouldn't have the opportunity to get. i'm involved because, like a lot of things we have here, we have been able to share with the community.

we get to go out and help our community out, and it's one of the parts that i love the most. we just go every -- i go on thursdays. we go during our lunch break and they go during their recess. they give up their recess just to be able to read. to me, that's amazing. when i was a kid, the last thing i wanted to do was read during recess. just the fact they are willing to give up that moment, or those six minutes, to be able to read and learn, it's amazing. >> we go once a week. i have a sweet young lady. we read -- it's not as much about the reading as it is about the mentoring or giving them an adult to talk to. someone they feel like will listen that maybe they don't have in their immediate environment. we sometimes do cross word puzzles or games.

we read. or she reads to me. we go once a week. in the end i think i probably gain more than her in the overall experience. it's rewarding in that way where you know you're making the bill different you can. >> reporter: there is nothing better than reading to a youngster. if you want to get involved with everybody wins d.c., come to the game tomorrow on saturday and bring a book. you can donate a book and help out some kids right here in the nats neighborhood. back over to you. >> debbi, thank you so much. congratulations to all these terrific employees of the washington nationals for doing just a little extra, going the extra mile to help people that really need help. that's nice of them. >> it really is. there's a lot of tutoring programs in this country. not very many tied into major league baseball or sports. i know the nfl kicked that off a few years ago. >> time for the keep your edge spotlight. i know you can't wait for this one. brought it you by just for men

mustache and beard. adam dunn, careerwise, against the los angeles darydges, he's got a .333 batting average. he's cracked a homer. just as adam dunn keeps giving the nationals the edge, you too can keep your edge with just for men mustache and beard. we'll be back and take a look at riggleman's lineup card. game one, dodgers and nationals.

don't miss tomorrow's show as the nationals and dodgers play. nyjer morgan plays center field and steals bases. he greets the fans. he also will be up close and personal. you'll have a plush pass to get a little more inside.

now for the dodgers. their lineup tonight. matt kemp, boy, you've got to keep him off the bases, ray. last year, 30 stolen bases. he went 1-3 in last night's loss. gold glove center fielder with the best of them. a career-high last year in home runs, rbis and walks. here's the lineup card tonight. garret anderson, the left fielder. etheir had a two-run shot last night. matt kemp will be in center. belliard will be at 3rd base tonight. blake dewitt, the 2nd baseman. a.j. ellis will be behind the plate. he'll be catching haeger. now let's take a look at riggleman's lineup card.

left fielder, josh willingham. he's driven in 11 runs. he's also hit 11 of 15 starts. his career run, as far as home runs are concerned, he's decked three. leading off as always the center fielder, nyjer morgan. adam kennedy at 2nd base. guzman gets the start at short. then comes willingham, pudge rodriguez. zimmerman takes the night off again, hopefully to get back to 100%. justin maxwell goes to right. luis is on the mound. johnny holliday and ray knight with you. time for our one-voice ask the

broadcaster question. one from jason. you've been talking about pitchers needing to pitch inside more. can you think of any active pitchers who live on the inside? >> i don't think they live on the inside as much as they want to. santana throws a lot of balls inside. kershaw, the guy that pitches for the dodgers, a lot of pitches in there. oswalt with houston, he will bust you inside. dempster also pitches inside a lot to set up that split finger and breaking ball away.

nobody likes cofax who hits over 100 batters. stan william back in my day, would bust you in a heartbeat. i got hit in the quad by dennis. he ran that fastball in so hard. he pitched inside an awful lot to set that slider up. >> another question for you. this is from mike in alexander. what is the status -- bring us up to date on jesus flores. >> steady improvement on range of motion, while receiving treatment over the last three or four months that basically consists of resistance. his training program is now four to six weeks. he will play an extensive minor league rehab. he's not eligible to come back up here until june 3rd. i imagine that's a little

ambitious. >> when pudge signed with this ball club, i don't think anybody thought he was going to hit what he's hitting and be leading the national league with a batting average of over .4 00. when jesus gets back, we're loaded at catcher. >> yeah. i don't know if riggleman will go with three catchers. he's been going with the seven, eight-man bullpen. by that time, everybody will be straighten out. you'll have your five starters getting all set up. i just look forward to june, july, when a lot of these guys come back from injury. >> i think we look forward to seeing the major league debut with luis. we'll talk about these starters when we come back and continue.

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there's a good look at some nice, young national fans, ready for some good baseball. let's go to debbi. she's down on the field with a gentleman from commuter connections. >> reporter: thanks. can you tell us exactly what commuter connections does? >> it's a network of os in the washington d.c. area that assists the public in choosing alternative transportation options other than driving by themselves to and from work. we look to match people up to

reduce congestion and improve air quality. >> reporter: how can the nationals' fans utilize these programs. >> they can go to our website and sign up for a special event. if they're going to an event, they can sign up and connect with another individual and car pool. >> reporter: all right. sounds like a good idea. >> thank you, debbi. all right. luis atilano starts for the nationals tonight. >> he signed with the braves when he was 17 years old. four-seam fastball, two-seam fastball, slider, changeup. they consider him a sinker ball pitcher. we have him over here via trade. he keeps the ball down, johnny. darrell ward is who he was traded for. he's only walked two people in 11 innings.

he's allowed just two extra base hits and he struck out 9. eight seasons in the minor leagues. he's had 106 starts down there, and a guy we have not heard much about. we got a scouting report from his minor leagues. >> he's actually take jason marquis' place in the starting rotation. now for the dodgers, charlie haeger. boy, do i love his clothes. a right-hander, third start of the year. a knuckle ball pitcher, only one of two in the major leagues today. >> he found the going so stuff, he actually voluntarily retired. they brought him back in 2004. he ended up winning 14 games. he was the winningest pitcher in the white sox organization. he was picked up on waivers by san diego and never signed.

now he's here getting his sixth start. we're going to go behind home plate and watch a lot of fluttering tonight. >> boy, he was tough to hit last year. the batters only hit .188 against him last year. we'll take a break. [ male announcer ] looking for a price that starts low

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america's top-rated internet, and phone guaranteed for 2 years. that's fios price protection, and it saves you hundreds of dollars. fios delivers the best channel lineup and the peace of mind that comes with paying the same low price every month. call 1.888.get.fios now to lock in $99.99 with a 2-year agreement. a price guaranteed for 2 years. we'll even include a free dvr for 6 months. call the verizon center for customers with disabilities at 800-974-6006 tty/v. when you talk about a great night for baseball here at washington, d.c. the dodgers in the cage here tonight. both teams trying to get back on the winning track. let's take it down to the national's dugout. ron is sitting there with phil wood. >> reporter: thanks. last fall when the dodgers clenched their spot in the national league playoffs, general manager ned was asked, who was the key to the dodgers getting there. without a doubt he said ron.

this is ron. he's a scout for the dodgers for many, many years. it was nice to get some recognition last year. >> it's a team game. there's a lot of people who play a role in that situation. i was just one of the guys. i'm really humbled by it. >> reporter: as you look back at what you did last year, the acquisitions, the three guys who played a major role last year. >> right. i think belisario was the biggest surprise. i had seen him in double-a the last two years. he had issues with fielding command. all of the sudden last winter, he was closing. the first couple times, i thought he was just having a good day. after seven, aircraft nine, ten in a row, he got my attention.

he was a nonroster guy coming in. for him to make the club and do what he did, he was our setup guy and had a phenomenal season. >> reporter: over the course of 365 days, you're in ballparks about 364 of them it seems like. >> i think i figured out i'm doing about 270 games a year when you look at spring training, winter ball, and everything else. you know, it beats the real world. >> reporter: you've become a really familiar face in venezuela. a lot of guys don't like do go down there. >> i try to tell them, you can't be afraid of machine guns and all the political turmoil that's going on there. there's only two or three clubs that really go down there. it's a great, great country. very pro-american. it's not a third-world country.

it's very modern. people are phenomenal. the culture is great. most importantly, it's incredible with baseball. it's growing. you can't even begin to know how popular -- if you go to a game, it's even more exciting there than a yankee, red sox playoff game, if you can believe that. you would never believe it. anyone who's been there will tell you. >> reporter: back to you, johnny. >> thank you. we're just about set to have the first pitch tonight. luis makes his debut against haeger. that's our nats xtra pregame. stick around for the game. what's that sound? [ applause ] shut your eyes. [ vendor ] high life light! high life light here! get your high life light!

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