you're going to be her prisoners in a multiyear hostage. this would be the moment traps to invite back on the stage someone who has witnessed this. [applause] >> tanks, christopher. i just want to offend -- and some random way. let's talk about the cartoons because it seems to me there's true separate issues about the things of cartoons which get complicated. ..

were the most effective. suicide bombers a riveting to be greeted by the prophet mohammed and saying what you please stop because we are running out of virgins. [laughter] now, that is the great marriage. >> it's got a bite into it. >> and the one with the turban was similarly a perfectly legitimate, strong satirical point. >> and weld rahm, too.

>> so the ones the people got most exercised would actually be the ones that i would, if i were to take to get many of the others were beyond bland so that is one issue. but it seems then there's the second issue what we were talking about what to think happens when the subject of violence arises. and that seems to be where the subject changes. it is no longer about whether you should publish or not publish. but how do you respond to violence. do you respond with howard miss or courage. at that point it seemed to be reduced paper should published cartoons. because they want to insult. but just to make the point you don't give in to the threats. so i think sometimes when people start talking about the cartoon objects whether they are good or bad or defensive for inoffensive it is that one point but the

second half of the point is a question in response. that is one of the things that has gotten very learned recently >> do you know is what happens to mohammed when he blows himself up? you don't know? >> okay let's see who don't you know. mr. thomas jefferson and mr. james madison. george mason. what is this? he said 72 virginians. [laughter] i was afraid this might have been. [laughter] >> not kidding serious islamic leadership has recently suggested the 72 virgins was a

miscalculation of the of original what was supposed to greet people on their arrival as martyrs' were 72 reasons. [laughter] >> there is a mess translation that has done a lot of damage. >> one of the good reasons for believing is wanting to see the faces. [laughter] >> it is to be handed the pond. [laughter] >> this ads to the strong case the books are man-made and not dictated by god which is part of the discussion. remember the origin of the danish question was proposed doing the best as many societies have to make muslims feel welcome in the danish society. it was thought that the world's

school children should learn about islam and have a book, cartoon book. all you need to know, islam kind of thing that they couldn't get any cartoonist to depict. they were afraid of making a mistake or upsetting someone. it was to satirize my friend said all right let's have a cartoonist competition and see if we can represent. as it begins with this. the second thing is your right if people should do it all of solidarity. and there is the judgment in the point of taste and the first instance what has become a matter of violence and controversy in the second stage you have to report which everybody durham a front-page. listen to it without the picture. i can't really think of a parallel. they would say well, the cast has gone too far.

he stick in a propagandist attitude toward the spanish civil war. there is a huge painting. you'd be very interested to know more about it but unfortunately we can't show what it looks like. the would be advising from franco or something. i can't think of the -- even worse now is the image. one of the pieces of language that is developed to justify this kind of behavior is the reinvention of the meaning of the word respect. it seemed to me when i was growing up respect and you took people seriously. it didn't mean you never disagreed with them. to respect someone is to say okay we will take on what you have to say and if i don't agree with it i will offer the counter argument. the idea is it would be disrespectful to someone to in

any way disagree from their system of belief is the new idea, the meaning of the word respect and it seems to have nothing to do with respect. and what it actually means is i am too afraid to wait. what you have is, ordnance masturbating and that is become more and more common and very clear of the case of the cartoons. the point he made that needs to be said a great deal is blasphemy, the refusal to accept the church has point unfolds is something which throughout human history is moving the human race forward. you mentioned galileo, but also remind people the trial of jesus christ. from those three you could say you have western and religious

belief, western scientific understanding and western philosophy. they all emerge from blasphemy cases. >> he was asking for trouble by saying he was the son of god. [laughter] he knew what he was doing. >> i always was amused when people said i knew what i was doing it would be strange i got to spend five years writing a novel and not know what you were doing. [laughter] what would that be. [laughter] >> another thought i mentioned you were raised a muslim. you can be accused -- >> about my parents were about as much on as a cheadle fingernail. laughter could agree to get my parents gave me was to not be really just the because the six religious. spec that's true in the eyes of

[inaudible] [inaudible] [laughter] >> board you and others the is the question like the internals derwood senter dustin now with the mark and comedy central and other events in london is lines been crossed now. you don't have to be a muslim to be brought within the range of the reprisal. >> quite soon after the attack has been sent by the t-shirt on what was the legend blasphemy of a victimless crime which if you think about it then you realize it is in that line with god is not a great because it of course in god is the victim

>> yes of my title id was unknowingly one word to long. circumcise one word and you have got the truth. i want to ask you a couple of things and yes we should come back to this but it seems to me one of the things to the people of our regeneration is very strange i think that religion is a political force. because when we were kids in the 60's there were many things that were up there that we needed to fight against. i don't think it ever occurred that the power of religion, whatever religion but once again be the we had to battle. we actually thought the battle was won. and it turns out that we were wrong and i wanted to ask you why you think that is.

one of the things said is the 21st century will be the center of religion. he didn't say that. but it seems so far on the basis of the ten years to be the case and i wonder why you think it is that this battle we fought has returned to the central battle of our time. >> he did say he thought the battle would be between communism and islam. partly because islam was a competitor in the third world against imperialism which can result in the being so not except the probable cause would be the collapse of communism. not least in the soviet union missile for other former soviet territory well now for the simple the russian orthodox church, the old patron of serfdom and the anti-semitism is now fully back in the nationalist forum is the clerk

will bodyguard to the regime and has special privileges within the state, the army and elsewhere and in russia. by the way it will be very dangerous thing as russian chauvinism -- tremendous revival of the forces of revival exemplified by this bureaucrat pope whose first act was to read that to the church preus next communicated to rebuild part of right wing. we fundamentalists in what they still think of as the one true church then you have the crazy sellers in the churches and paulson who think they can bring on the messiah by stealing their of land and the christians who say wouldn't it be a great idea. we support the jews. they bring on the shopocalypse and we get jesus.

a lot of humor in the country at trolleying still to maintain if this goes on i wouldn't have believed it that american children should be taught garbage with equal time. now girls and place will not alter the outbreak. [laughter] they never stopped in texas and elsewhere. big schoolbook producing iran as that of the nonsense is on the stoppable. >> i remember the time the states decided that intelligent design had to be taught at the same level as the vaguely darwinism. i wrote a piece i still suggest is the best decision by the states because it showed darwin was wrong. [laughter] it should natural selection didn't always choose --

[inaudible] [laughter] and it is possible for the human population to regress. there was a wonderful -- in alabama i remember there was a public servant who said we couldn't be sure about the truth of the theory that the big bank because nobody was there at that time. [laughter] >> yes, equal time demand is an excellent one because there are a large number of churches who take the view in support of -- in zurich and in receipt of grants from so-called fifth based initiatives i am sorry to see president obama council or otherwise receipt of a tax break but we should take them up on the equal time and we will teach in the schools at least once a week not in the science class at the social studies and you have to sell and teach durham material 50% of the time and

politics of the post war period and the eisenhower election even the kennedy election, but it wasn't so necessary for the religion to be a subject in five election. nowadays it seems to me you can't be elected dogcatcher in america unless you talk about the need for such and such church. why do you think it is there is so much a creature religious discourse in this country? >> i think this is only true and i know no one else keeps saying so, the people of checking has doubled in the last year. the last five years to something like 16, 17% is probably higher. the number of people who check the box is, i anabaptist orion a

catholic, i know because i debate in the churches fall of prices and it doesn't get the monolithic rejoiced at all. barack obama got elected while putting to desert the only church he had ever been a year. he took considerable care to pick one. it merely got him on elected to the church. since he hasn't been to a church at all and end of his inauguration speech which i attended with a good quotation from thomas kane so i'm not sure. the reasonable integrity and honesty and present ability he was able to face what elections and say i personally don't attend a church or have the belief -- he has every reason to think they would win. >> i think you're right the political right in this country clearly thinks the religious kind as well played. >> the christian right [inaudible] and the catholic right as well. i mean, who now thinks the catholic church has any moral

right that they would be denied the sacrament they don't conform? i would like to see them try again. i really would like to see that. >> out side of this country that me just ask you given mouthpiece of all these ideas of the clash of civilizations what do you think, i do think this is a war of religion or are they as many wars of religion have done wars that use the religion as a cloak? >> i'm sure it is both with the latter. the crusade as the muslim world goes on about a lot and quite understandably began with a huge problem against european and then when they finished that were nearly finished the move to lacrosse and finished east orthodox so before they even got

to jerusalem when they settled with the jews and the only other christian rival in the picture. i think stevan is quite right to say that at that point the crusades were the most retarding experience the humans had undergone which was suffering from the consequences. it was the christian war that led to the crusade and likewise as you can see in iraq and elsewhere there is at least one civil war between the sunni and the shia against the muslims and especially in pakistan. it's becoming a warlord religion and unlucky for them and us they don't have a cloak to put a unified line everyone has to follow the centers of power and

often they want to settle the dispute on them on muslims. no sunni governor ever supported [inaudible] >> no government at all actually. and that was partly for political reasons because actually wind up protest against the president began the were largely financed by saudi arabia and the iranian is actually hijacked from the saudi campaign as one of the reasons -- >> no one outbid the ayatollah. >> i would like to point out in regard to me and the ayatollah khomeini one of us is dead. [laughter] [applause] do not mess with novelists. [laughter] >> the written word will remain

[laughter] >> it is true if you look at the muslim world that the political -- apart from the sunni shia split, the political dissension are so profound it's very difficult to speak of the jihad. you have got the afghans, the iranians who hate the saudis who hate the syrians and so on so it is clearly not unified, but on the other hand they are clearly has blown up something which is of appeal to a small group but a dangerous group where the idea of the global chehab become very attractive. what do you think that is about? >> for example shouldn't prejudge the case boys who left the suburbs of my home town the other day to open the wrong part of pakistan.

only the latest in the large number of young men from england from france and elsewhere who died in the remote parts of islam. it's interesting to have to go with al qaeda. why would a young muslim in london want to go to fight with of the northern alliance in afghanistan, which is as a muslim organization as can be to forge against the soviet union as opposed to the taliban and probably have more support. no one is a volunteer for that. no one went to volunteer for the kurdish people fighting against saddam hussein. all of the muslim activists decided saddam hussein when it came to the crunch in the war who himself enjoyed the support of al qaeda if not in the military operational sense of the proclamation. it was a horrible way that

you're in on goal. it has to be the most horrible, the most extreme and the most complete the consequential advantage of the consecration being sold by self destruction suicide. so it really is a battle what you could call [inaudible] >> i sometimes think -- i wonder what you think about this -- that in the way that the soviet communism, soviet-style communism burned through a large part of the world and then burned out there is an argument that says that in those countries where the radical islam has become the most powerful it is also the most disliked. that is to say the people of afghanistan, large majority very large majority of the population of iran does not like the ayatollah. the people of algeria with the

feith of the gia moved away from it so -- >> iraq was still isolating al qaeda. >> so here is the rhetoric which appears to be very attractive, kind of sexy glamorous particularly to the young men, particularly young man without much hope of the future. and it can burn into a society with great speed. but then very rapidly people come to discover they hate it. so what do you think of that idea that this may be a short-lived? >> you are right there is every side of it that would turn as well against the so-called many of whom firm volunteers quite a lot of them americans. yet no one who's ever tried it once wants to try it again. that is absolutely true. but it is a lot to go through.

and afghanistan will take a long time to recover. it is not that difficult to diagnose. after all of you for it yourself tough challenge of the 50% population to start with you ban the music and books that are not the koran. the floor is going to keep dropping. it takes a long time to bring it back to where it was. if you mean might we let them burn themselves out -- if you think could reset it out, i sometimes think to the cutting perhaps not because the damage done is so great and the problem is as with all theocracy it doesn't have the self critical capacity. they look around and noticed okay all of the children's teeth are falling out. nothing works except the secret police. in the field nothing grows but

footprints. what have we been doing wrong. we haven't been doing anything wrong. we just maybe haven't been praying hard enough and in the meantime the crusade conspiracy has been at work to subvert the country. so, of the huge number of unemployed young man they tried to export them. so we have every interest not just stopping veggie hot element but under development that islam brings. just to see this way very often you read quite smart people say they have a product of unemployment. the core of the unemployment has not been immediately flawed and with much less employment. the national income is reduced by a whole point by the attacks on al qaeda from exhibit. it drove many people in the.

that is their plan. don't fool yourself because the process begins. it is a wish for them. at the height of the soviet union a lot of non-soviet socialist voices in europe and america and around the world made the distinction between what they saw as the distortions of the soviet union and what they called communism which was clearly disbarred and so on and if you like true socialism the truth church of remarks it seems to me now that there is often a similar argument being made. and its acting islam which is

cruel and any of its national stations. and the separate idea of the true faith which is religion and i wonder what you thought about that. >> well i was one of those on the left who spent a lot of time with the left opposition and people who did take the fall who were not in favor of nato or capitalism, people like in poland, some of the opposition's for democrat socialists at one time or another. so, i still have some sympathy for the critique. the thing that that is it is a bit more adjustable objectively. if you come to the conclusion there is something wrong with the pricing policy of the socialist economy it has a vaulting's difficulty working out with the value of things ought to be. and this probably isn't the result of it being hijacked. it may be false.

you don't think i'm cui to go to hell for saying that or bring the point to yourself the same condemnation. the thing about the theocracy is it tends to say that if anything goes wrong if the system breaks down it is only because we haven't tried hard enough. for example i go on about this all the time we should be thinking about our iranian brothers and sisters every day. not just the struggle they have to bring about the democracy and the revolutionary guard who'd taken over the country are the people who control the nuclear weapons. but on top of that iran has a terrible seismic catastrophe coming like a heart attack to iran and no one is doing anything to earthquake proof the country. nothing like what chile has done. it was more like haiti. and i knew this would happen the friday press the week before

last the guys did discuss the earthquake coming been quite bad news. it will be if there are underground nuclear facilities. he said of course there will be an earthquake because they insist on uncovering their faces. this was the official sermonette friday. >> the section of the of women is the cause of the earthquake. >> both of us suffered -- those who suffer from the seismic effective the female [laughter] we know it can't be underestimated. it can move mountains all right. [laughter] this is ridiculous but they knew they had to have an explanation and, well, i don't think stalin quite agreed. estimate of one to open to the audience but before i do i want to ask a question on a different

subject which is something like the subject that might be interesting to deal with the future of journalism and clearly you said most of your life as a working journalist we live in a moment where the environment is being transformed. >> i had dinner about a year ago in washington seated next to the publisher of "the washington post" kofi annan and i asked because there were stories about the "washington post" and difficulty, and i asked how bad was it and she said you know, it's very that. and she said to me she had recently been in the silicon valley and had gone to visit various yahoo!, google, etc., and she had said to them, she asked if he were me what would you do, and they have always

responded shut down the newspaper and concentrate on the web site, which was something that shocked her in which case she didn't want to do but it was an indication of the revolution coming. .. the annual thing with the press forms too much on the press and the press forms too much on the president.

and it looks thinner every year somehow. and i could add to it. catherine was there and i was thinking the "washington times," which is the only rival to "washington post" by the river and from john moon will be a one newspaper town pretty soon. i think last year seattle became a one newspaper town. i was astounded by that i have to say. it think that was taking three or four. been one in "the l.a. times" has gone down faster than the other i believe where everyone knows the story i suppose, but it's the speed of it that impresses me. and that's what the production industry is late. the its chief general is the end i would say that none now regularly take a newspaper.

that's the demographic spca, that's the judgment. it's a habit of picking up a paper and carry it around with you and taking it from the house in the morning. >> what are the consequences of that? >> are used to think what a positive thing it was. now if i have a great junks didn't use boyles is promising, i can't just limit myself listening to them look, i could introduce you to someone in the newsroom and chicago or new york or what it might be pretty picture clips read, you might be able to come across the newspaper guild. you might get a break. i considered them look coming you could do your own site. you could publish if you do write your doomsday. and you can say okay i'll put it up and see if anyone to come. expose yourself directly. that's quite encouraging. i know some people who have done rather well, but here it is

where the danger, pratley which you identify. it's a year such terrible relativism, where everyone's opinion is as good as anyone else's. you don't have to earn any credibility that way. and pretty soon you does not just your opinion, but your choice and facts. it wouldn't be a common stock appropriate, which is by the way also the problem in teaching these days. very difficult to find a book that everyone has read. cannot do you think that the things like the ipod in the kendall are ways for newspapers to survive? >> they won't postpone -- it won't postpone i don't think people who want "the new york times" because they couldn't get it under control. though not read it because they can get it that way. there's an easy proof of that. [inaudible]

the one particularly abject thing that happened to the other day in new york with her in new york tyneside peer lee pitched to the young people, and they imagine to be young and say just get the weekend edition. you don't have to sweat to robin is. it's all about sports and games and music and movies, you'll love it. on the "washington times" -- excuse me, they're advertising on the radio in washington as the cracker the same thing. just take a couple days a week and read the fun stuff. don't give us as a fuddy-duddy newsgathering. we won't bore you with lots of stories about afghanistan or like that. so, the defeat authority being experienced. it's a shame. i was telling someone before, has anyone seen the paper with michael keaton? great movie i think about it day in the life of a packed tabloid

junior arrested in new york. he's waiting for the post. the three papers on this table in the morning and newspaper headline says headless body on are in daily news says something like four in new york dropped dad. "the new york times" said signs of spring to moderation in election. and he throws the papers to the floor and says these would do anything to sell newspapers. [laughter] >> what that point, we have about 15 minutes or so. if people have questions they would like to a christopher, there's two microphones there and they are. [inaudible] you could go to the microphone and take your turn. [inaudible] >> i like free speech, but i'm worried about fox news.

they have so many viewers and they lie so much. is john stewart did not end coalbed, how do we deal with they just make all the noise in the world. >> i sometimes feel i'm not as judgmental about folks as they might be because i was brought up in the early part of my life in london, withers know objectivity in journalism. where you knew what you were getting, you look at the newsstands they are ablaze with different papers. the party you're into run by the interest of certain proprietors, not least among them, people who know them. who i saw 3:00 this morning by the french embassy swimming pool. [inaudible] [laughter] looking by the way he's got a lot of years left in him. so i don't get to shop seriously. what i do like is a paper that pretends to be objective and is

not. >> i'd like to ask both of you which you think about there has been a relatively recent by which the plaintiff was arguing that the part where it says under a god and trying to discourage and trying to make it illegal to force kids or encourage kids to say that during school. i'm wondering what you thought about that. >> i know the case very well and i think mr. no doubt is a slight pain in the asp because instead of saying what he should decide, which is that the pledge of allegiance was written in promulgated and became popular and well loved in the 1880's written by a socialist who is trying to bring american society back together after the civil war and was trying to think of anyone in the country, whatever their background. i pledge allegiance to the flag

of the united states of america into the public for which it stands one nation under visible with liberty and justice for all. it's beautiful. and the mccarthy years, the time and how menus to call it, he was subjected by some big mouth of a flag raised, were eisenhower was president. this pledge could be recited by a child in moscow. word for word. so how can you make it so it couldn't be. new problem. to store the rhythm and make it putman under god. so what you want to see us know i'm for intent. i'm a strict constructionist. i want the pledge back widthwise. most of you are under the impression that you always had those words and and the atheists are coming to take it out. it's just stupid.

but of course it's flat-out unconstitutional. you may not do that. the first amendment is beautifully written. congress will make no law which they will make an exception. >> thank you. >> great britain is having an election this week and one of the candidates ucs been doing very well, nick clegg of the liberal democrats is a professed atheist. if he does very well in that election, does that mean something changing number 10 of the news that we don't have in this country? >> no, england is very different to the united states. when tony blair who was deeply religious was running for office, his main kind of [inaudible] said openly afterwards that they deliberately played down his religious beliefs because he

would lose them votes. now, in england, to be religious is to be a flake. [laughter] and he would vote for you if that's what you, you know, like i remember when george w. bush was asked early in his presidency if he ever consulted his father, and now that he was president. and he said pointing upwards, no because he had another father to whom he would refer. now, if you were to say that in the british general election, he would run out of parliament. [laughter] >> i wish that what george saying [inaudible] [laughter] mr. clegg is i think we used to be my intern at the nation magazine and of course they would've hired him if he was a muslim, but i'm glad to know he still isn't a believer. and what someone says is true i

could've answered the question by saying this, maybe we should just force all americans to have prayer in the schools because i don't know a quicker way of bringing together a mass production of atheism among the young. and that's certainly the reason for the secularization of british society is the religion of compulsory in english and scottish and we'll schools. and the queen is the head of the church as well as the state in the armed forces, which means it's where the heart ceases to be should never have been peered at the moment that does happen, prince charles becomes the head of the church of england. it was fun fattier with no taste in women. and that's what you get here it goes on in a church on the family values of henry gage. >> but the truth is i think england is just not an issue. >> know what would dream of

rebounding on it. >> we'll see how well he actually does. i don't know what you think, christopher, but you could argue that in the end people will swing back towards a traditional 2000 or that the anti-labor sort of landslide has now gone so far that they're actually going to be even worse than actually we will have a two-party safe and it will be the third party. >> i think it's a three party society in case uncomfortably within the two-party duopoly. and every now and then it comes out again. it came out in the 70's and i ain't in large part to mr. clegg is of course a proportional representation which now has to be discussed seriously. >> well, we'll find out on thursday. >> yes, i was really sad to hear you say that when the danes were trying to get a muslim book for

children, they didn't go to muslims en masse how do we do it? and i may have prevented the cartoons from happening, the cartoon contest. and the other thing is all the talk about revision, it's really the extremists, the fanatics, it's not the mainstream. anyone i believe it's causing any difficulties anywhere and i'd like your opinion. >> well, the question, what you say sounds persuasive and i don't know by the way that they didn't go to consult your day would've done muslim authorities the question would be which ones would those be because they're quite a number of them. not the ones that started the cartoons are very extreme and not come to the use of that word in a second. and they were going to allow any discussion of the subject of debate and not themselves control. or if you went to one muslim authority, all you be doing is

inviting yourself into a schismatic row, with different sections of muslims which would be in a very depressing way to introduce schoolchildren to the subject. the second is the word fundamentalist with difficulty for me. there is a word of god or there is not. i opinion there is not. if someone says you know what, you think god did speak at sinai. or did speak at the baptism of the jordan or did take those checks of mohammed. where does that make you a fundamentalist? i think it's an extraordinary thing to believe. if you say you don't really believe that, you're not religious. fundamentalism says there has been a revelation. atheism to say there haven't heard polices what likes to split the difference that can't be split. >> i think we might even be a

lot to discover the slight difference between christopher and me. i mean, maybe it's more, but my view is that if people are religious and gain from it satisfaction, nourishment, solace, whatever it is, my view is that point of difference. when that comes into the public arena and people of religious belief try to force the values of the relief unto me or shoot a society in which i live, then it might business. and i have very strong views about whether revision should be allowed. but in the privacy of one of those phones mine, it's one game from a certain set of ideas however cockeyed they might be, my view --

[inaudible] >> i couldn't agree more. they're looking at you going to hell. they're allowed to do that. they're supposed to redeem you. you're supposed to save you. i thought there was a personal god, there was supervised by movement and have a tender attitude towards me in general and even promised me that i would not croak, i guess they've no idea what it would be like to do anything so fabulous, but i suppose it would make me happy. it doesn't make me happy at all. they can't be happy till i believe it, too. and that's because of the controversial model. so why do i even know what they believe? the church which was not militant -- >> not really. judaism doesn't prophesies,

exclusion on. much doesn't anymore. [laughter] it also doesn't say the messiah has ardie khan. >> hi, my question is about engagement and maybe the role for engagement. there is a lot of discussion about speech and advocating it in standing up for her. i've been doing work in china and often when protest china does make it harder for people working in the system. so i just want to see your thoughts on the balance between engagement and protest i guess. >> well, yuki. i suppose it must sometimes be true that if everyone kept quiet for us for a certain state and didn't give its government the impression that foreigners were intervening, that it might make life easier for the local

dissonant. one is often told that. burrell told her example that iranians don't welcome support for their efforts from outsiders because they can then be identified were even criminalized. but that's albright as long as the regime that saw stateside of my life. the bureau nance will do that. they say they want to export people to kill someone, people to include the democracy of lebanon of jewish communities in buenos aires. we know the names of the people who have been doing this. well, i'm sorry, this is not an internal affair and i don't have a civil rights. her mother, zimbabwe, iran, just those three for now. you can't get anything done at

north korea. he's really an appalling regime and you find protected by the united nations and sort of sudan. it means they'll give all their weapons. you cannot address major human rights trauma in the world without coming up against chinese power on the wrong side. i'm sorry, this is not their internal affair. >> also, if you look at the experience of penn america, i'd say two things. every time pen has supported a writer and difficulty in whatever country, we have heard back from those writers that it was immensely valuable to them to know that their case was being seen by the rest of the world and that they gained great

staying embarrassment from the fact that their case was being highlighted. there something in the cases of those writers who have been on the front runner. to them, it has mattered a great deal to her case was given prominence. but if you look at these so-called awards that pen gives every year to writer's, they're highlighting, there is an enormously high percentage, which i think it's somewhere around 90% of those writers and released from jail within the six-month period. and it is because -- >> that's encouraging. >> tierney is one of the curious weaknesses that they want to be liked. [laughter] and if you could show them that they are not like i'm actually that the world thinks that they are passel's because of what

they're doing, it's sometimes easier for them to release those writers and stop getting that bad obesity. it's beyond experience in country after country for many, many years. so i would say that on the one hand it gives strength and on the other hand it very often discomforts the bad guys so much that they actually change their pay. yes. >> i was wondering if you could give specific examples of great literary novels that are now being censored muslim societies. i'm very sympathetic about satanic -- [inaudible] is there anything right now and if so what it eats our side during that come into saudi arabia, is that i ran? and could you give the name of the book and the author. >> well, the most famous book that is polarized in every single muslim country is not

published in a single muslim country at this point is the 1001 heights, the arabian night. last night the arabian nights, the most famous book in the history of our literature cannot be published uncensored and in the air of countrywide because it's a lot of sex and oddly this veritable religion. and if god doesn't make any appearances in the arabian that men and women have been a great deal of sex make a lot of the damage is. and they are the most famous work in the history of the literature. i ran has to authorize the publication of novels by border sensors every year. i don't know if this is one of them, but there've been years recently were a single model has been approved for publication. no novels have been published.

novels deemed worthy of publication. so it's a very extreme level. >> it's also probably under development. if you look at the arab development produced the head of the arab league, a panel of other regional intellectuals and writers of literary material, not really a censorship at the failure to publish or translate. greece translates more books into other languages and into great every year than the whole arab world does in its entire language. it's the unavailability of things, this cultural salvation rather than singling out a book for censorship. the only book i know by the constructs of my mind since i've just written me introduction to it which is animal farm, which is bigger than all countries not just because of the pigs, they don't come up out of the book,

but because certainly in a ran work that involved to get a pirated edition back into persia is because if a revolution trade. so it's much more political. >> okay, we're out of time so if you could ask a quick question and a quick answer. >> okay, you mentioned banco hubble earlier who as you know is a playwright before he became -- i'm wondering what our government composed of writers will look like in the arts and politics necessarily has to be independent in a free society. i was just wondering if you think i would necessarily be detrimental and what that would look like. >> i have called a match when he was president. that would be the worst possible idea in the republic here that really would be terrible. that would be the worst kind of tyranny you can picture.

what examples do we have that could be the least bit encouraging here? some countries have done very well by right taking their writers into ambassadors. george barris was a british ambassador. carlos went to flint has, edwards. [inaudible] >> i'm not applying for the job. [laughter] >> and george conrad was also in the presidency upon greek after the collapse of communism. i think because he's the first president of hungary, president of independent hungary should not be jewish, rather an arcane

reservation perhaps a good one in the circumstances. >> okay well, i think people should be allowed to. >> i think on behalf of pen we have to offer a big vote of thanks. [applause] >> christopher hitchens is a country been at "vanity fair" magazine. his books include "why orwell matters," "god is not great" in the forthcoming memoir, "hitch-22". for more information, visit

pen.org. >> up next, booktv presents "after words," an hour-long

discussion with the author of a new boat. this week former cia officer john kiriakou talks about his service in the agency both e4 and after 9/11. he played a key role in the capture of al qaeda associate abu debate that in pakistan and also a good u.s. officials of the planning of the iraq war. he is interviewed by frederick hitz, former inspector general of the cia and current fellow at the university of virginia center for national security law. >> host: sitting here with john kiriakou, talking about his new book, guerrilla spy. i told john before i got on the air that is like to ask them as my first question, how did you decide to write this book, john? >> it was a hard decision actually. i've