i am not just a child of globalization but i am also a child that is intellectually-- after 1989 after the fall of the soviet union. >> why was that the case? how did that impact your life directly?

>> it impacted it directly if we accept someone huntington's thesis that there is a class of civilization in a clash between the west and islam in the sense that i was born into the muslim civilization. i was defined by huntington and lifted and breathed it, was committed to the loyalty, believed in it and left it and came to the west west and did the same thing, lifted, breathed it, made friends. i made my future here and was able as an individual to compare not just the geographical differences and not just the mundane material differences but the differences in values. i came to really appreciate one over the the other and i made a choice, and i think that makes it, if you are looking to what is it that is how i interpret events, events we are living in everyday life, the fact that i

think exposed both worlds, exposed to the thinking in both worlds and that i feel that i am able to compare them. my opinions are one of many, one of 1000 opinions. it is subjective and it is my opinion but that is how i interpret facts and events that are living history today. >> you would say that a member number of the primary factors that influenced your thinking are derived from your being part of, and being influenced by globalization, you are being part of a tribe, you are also as i understand it, your own background in terms of your education and being exposed to multicultural circumstances. would you say that is sort of the foundation on which your book is derived from? and your very being?

>> yes. the only thing i would add to that is that i have been exposed to different types of education. my grandmother and my mother and my koran teachers have given me a different sense of education from what i would, you know, what i would call, what i would label a western education. western education was an individualism. a sense of adventure, not just of venture and traipsing all over the world but adventure and for instance, into the unknown, science, reason. that for me is what i associate with the west and my grandmother, my mother and my koran teachers and preachers educated me in loyalty to the klan, tradition and loyalty to god and the hereafter, loyalty to the prophet mohammad and following his example so i was educated in both places but the

education is radically different. >> to watch this program in its entirety go to booktv.org. simply type the title or the author's name at the top left of the screen and click search. every weekend booktv brings you 48 hours of history, biography and public affairs. here's a portion of one of our programs. >> why when we hear the president and others talking about the fact that we must make government efficient for the people did our founding fathers actually design the government to be inefficient? ask yourself that question, because this is a model for inefficiency. but it was done deliberately. why? because, in order to have basic

liberties, you have to have the government with very little power. the more efficient the government is, the more liberties the individual has to give up to get to them. they cannot do their job efficiently unless they have the power to tell you what to do. very interesting, isn't it? and yet our society today generally believes that we have to have an efficient government because we have been told time after time after time, we must make the government efficient. but that is the road to loss of freedom. >> to watch this program in its entirety, go to booktv.org. simply type the title or the author's name at the top left of the screen and click search. up next, jeff charlotte contributing editor for "harper's" and "rolling stone"

magazine examines religious fundamentalism in politics. mr. sharlet follows up on his last book on the subject, the family and locus is on residents located on c street in washington d.c. that is housed politicians who according to the author is interested in transforming their religious beliefs into legislation. jeff sharlet discusses his book at politics and prose bookstore in washington d.c.. >> good evening. i am barbara meade. i'm one of the owners here at politics and prose, and i want to welcome jeff sharlet who has a new book that expands on a book that he wrote several years ago called the family. just as an assistant professor of english at dartmouth. he is also a contributing editor for "harper's" at "rolling stone" and he writes as well for many magazines and newspapers,

and you also may have heard him on npr or nbc nightly news, talking about the issues of religion and politics. jeff has a new book, "c street" which is an eye-opening work of investigative reporting, and he uncovers a largely an typical world fundamentalist politicians, sometimes called the family, or international assistance leadership or the fellowship. the headquarters is right here in washington. actually their headquarters were almost in our own neighborhood when, back in the 60s, this fundamentalist group set their eyes on tricare him on macomb street and jeff unearthed this from the papers of the family.

this is a quote. tricare and it handled trop really good on a low-profile basis provide the following for our worldwide family, and orientation center to recruit politicians for a leadership led by god, a communication center for the worldwide work and housing for members of the corps, the family. well, the deal fell through but the housing needs were met by a building on capitol hill on c street which is called simply c street. this is the house that most of us had never heard of until the three right-wing fundamentalists got caught in the headlights when they were engaged in some

marital misdemeanors. [laughter] mark sanford and john ensign and chip pickering. that was what we read about in the papers at that time was the headline version. jeff is here to tell us about all the clandestine inner workings of the group and also you will be surprised to know its ambitious plans for expansion, global expansion, so here is jeff. [applause] >> thanks barbour and i'm just going to put this phone here to keep me honest with time, not because i am texting while reading. so thanks for coming out and joining me. i have been writing about religion and politics for a gas well over a decade now, but i

think the reason that i am here and what may be brings a lot of you out is sex and particularly they really unpleasant sex of john ensign, mark sanford and chip pickering, all of whom very publicly detonated their marriages last year. you know it is worth remembering that these aren't necessarily-- ensign was making trips to iowa and mark sanford was generally a bright presidential prospect before he redefined the appalachian trail as a path to argentina. [laughter] and then last and least in every way was chip pickering. chip pickering from mississippi in some eyes had a greater impact in american life than either of those two better-known men back when he was a senate aide for trent lott and in that capacity was one of the architects of the 1996 telecommunications act, a massive privatization of the

airwaves which led to a number of media monopolies and a lot of really boring radio and terrible journalism. but he saw that is sort of unleashing the invisible hand, which the members of this organization have always-- the invisible hand of the market they assume is the invisible hand of god and that is one of the ways in which they differ from traditional fundamentalism. they have more of an economic perspective. now chip pickering, if he is not at all, to most people though he is known as the congressman from bore out. if you saw bharat, cultural learnings of america to benefit kazakhstan, sasha baird colin playing the idiot reporter for it makes his way to a meeting. creationism and religious nationalism, american attrition. america as christians, this idea that doesn't exist is usually the idea that madison mannesmann that founders specifically

rejected america as a christian nation with something all three of these guys either believed in her paid lip service to, but beyond the ideological ties between them, i was fascinated by c street, 133 c street and i encourage everybody if you everybody if you were in the neighborhood, just across from the library of congress, stop them. they are tax-exempt as a church and the irs has certain criteria but churches. churches are supposed to be public so some of the residents there, senator jim demint, senator tom coburn they would love to see it, they would love to worship with you, they would love to-- now, i'm sorry. they would not love to see you and they would not love to worship with you because the other thing that makes this organization distinct from the fundamentalist a lot of us are familiar with, the pulpit pounders, the bible thumpers and also the quiet people who are just very devout and perhaps literally in the faith that grow out of and i would like to

remind audiences fundamentalists begin with a small d. no one is going to tell me how i worship god. i know the truth i read it here in the bible. there's this other kind of fundamentalism that begins with this idea of an elite, this idea that goes back to 1935. this was the oldest argued with the most influential conservative organization in america. begins with the revelation one-eyed in april 1935 the founder please god came in and he thought god spoke to them fairly regularly and this time he had a new message that christianity had been getting it wrong for 2000 years. the week, the suffering in the down and out, that was boring. god was calling him to a higher place to be a missionary, to be a servant or the app and now she called us, the top man, the key man. was and that he about the poor but he thought that god was telling him that the best way to

help the weak is to help the strong. then they can dispense weapons to the rest of us as sort of a trickle-down religion. he saw that it play in the case of senator ensign, governor sanford and chip pickering all of whom had these affairs, all of which were covered up in part by this organization. in fact the senator ensign affairs now is the center of the justice of the-- investigation. senator ensign's best friend and also a member of this organization. at first when he spoke out about it he said, the man that c street are great men. they are doing god's word and i know they are going to help my small family through this. as time went on, that didn't turn out to be the case and so he came out and said actually i was wrong. it is about protecting john ensign. is about protecting c street. it is about protecting power.

they threw the weaker brother under the bus. the best way to help the weaker members to help the strong. senator ensign was a senator so they start with him. mark sanford did not live vesey street that was a regular visitor and turned to see street to help him with his troubled marriage. he sent his wife, jenny sanford, -- her book is probably here in the store-- a fascinating document. he sent her to see street to have for mankind straighten her out when they were having trouble in their marriage. maybe some of you do this, maybe men you were having trouble in your marriage. so you recruit another group of men that your wife doesn't know to explain to her her wifely duties. that is how it worked for jenny. they explained to her that she should never express anger toward her husband, that was something reserved for men. men could have those serious discussions and you will forgive me for being vulgar but you should never withhold sex from him because as one of god's

chosen leaders as a man anointed by god to develop this leadership, he had needs and he must be satisfied. it is that gross. [laughter] and ship pickering, he just met his mistress and in the c street house through the telecom era. he quit congress to become a telecom lobbyist otis sort of a telecom romance. that is sort of the seedy side of the story and maybe that is why i get to be here and talk with you today, because i'd written this other book about this called the family and you know, when i publish that, you know i was sort of going out and i wanted people to pay attention not to this kind of seediness but to the international story, the way that they are involved. you take that same approach, this idea that some politicians are chosen for power, now you project that a broad. now you put some money and some muscle and some power behind

that and it becomes not just something kind of sleazy but something dangerous. so i had gone into the archives, 592 boxes of documents, stories of billy graham archives. i am moving out to evangelical college. i happen to be jewish and i was at this evangelical college in one day someone came up to me and asked if i had heard about jesus. campus of an evangelical college and i wanted to give that guy a gold star. he had found the jewish. [laughter] i lived in these documents. i lived with the organization and now i lived in these documents and sort of unearthing the story, the theology. one of the stories i told was that of their involvement in somalia and this is an important one because it documents our-- it's documents or so blunt about this, so candid. i have to refer to a recent new yorker piece that also dealt with this and out with the

somalia story. the thing that the author forgot to do, he forgot to get the documents. he didn't go to the archive. is hard to tell a story we don't do the research and when we looked at the research we found this leader in somalia, an unlikely prospect for christian conversion. he described himself as the koran eck marxist. you been a soviet client. this soviets dumped him and he needed a new friend that he wanted america to be a sprint. he said i will pray to jesus and here is what i want in return. i want my defense budget double, i want meetings with the white house and i want a hands off policy will i crack down on this rebel group in the north. done, done and done. he got it all. he sent the fellowship a list of military supplies he was going to me. he said it was going to fight cubans in somalia. he crack down on the rebel group in the north and then the ones in the south and the ones in the

west and the wanton easton the ones in the center. heat destroy the country and it never recovered. that to me is a more important story than senator ensign. so i try to lead with that story when the first book came out. member one radio producer saying what is a somalia? so i have learned. that is why we are starting to see street and is important because you want to follow this kind of silliness of this religion to carry out the ideas. what are the consequences? many people get involved in this movement with the best of intentions. they don't set out to create murder and genocide in somalia. they want to help. just like senator coburn for instance, who lives on c street wanted to help senator ensign cover up his affair by negotiating payments to his mistress and you may recall, this was in the news, he wasn't going to talk about this. he had medical confidentiality with senator ensign because some people probably remember he was an obstetrician.

we look forward to senator ensign's announcement. [laughter] but the principle underlying the that come up with the underlying that has summed up the leader of the group and oxygen aryan named doug coe, in a vehicle guy. i don't think he sees the consequences of what he was trying to do but he said the more visible you can make your organization more influence it will have, which is true which is why we have laws about disclosure that the family back in its early days that maybe we should register as it christian lobby. no, we don't do that. we will be more effective if we don't register, which is true. that is why we have the laws. but you know there a lot of groups in washington that are joaquin as shady line, right? it is the nature and the influence that becomes important and that is where you have to understand the theology. i want to quote doug coe again. here he is, teaching on scripture. you say hey jesus said you have to put him before mother father

brother and sister? hitler lenin mao, that is what they taught the kids. now even had the kids killing their own mother and father but it wasn't murder. it was for building the new nation, the new kingdom. now, if that was a one-off, that was a poorly chosen example, i wouldn't be talking about it but when i lived with the group and was a drumbeat let's look at the leadership lessons of hitler lenin and mao. and a bad guy they can imagine they said these were terrible men. it is not there and that we admire, it is the means. that means also being problematic. you can find video now actually that i gave nbc news of talking about the great friendship between hitler and lenin. what if we could do that for jesus? well some folks defending the groups say you notice just a metaphor. why are you so harsh on it? it is just a metaphor. to which i respond, and i am

very happy about the response to this group. is not just journalists like me writing for "harper's magazine." the other magazine cracking down on the script is the far right fundamentalist world magazinemagazine, believing fundamentalist magazine in america doing terrific investigative reporting because they know that hitler stalin and mao are not a good metaphor for jesus. go back to seminary. there are lots of possibilities but we take that metaphor and if we talk about what fundamental amounts-- fundamentalism means, taking metaphor and making a concrete and you follow that metaphor onto the world then you follow it into these relationships with leaders overseas and in the new book what i was able to do that i couldn't do in the last book was to follow the money out of c street, to follow men like senator coburn to lebanon where he is pursuing the development of messianic muslims, muslim followers of jesus like jewish followers of jesus. what i race with one member of the group, my concern about some

of the anti-semitism i was encountering the answer was some of my best friends are jewish followers of jesus. not even jewish. there is her word for jesus followers-- following jesus, is christian and they can go at that but again it is almost a religious illiteracy that becomes dangerous when you back it up with american power and i want to share with you an example from the book. i thought a lot of these guys, just trace the money out there round the world and there is an excerpt in "mother jones" magazine where we talk about senator inhofe and former congressman mark still john who pled guilty to obstruction of justice. that foreign power being sudan and omar abu share the president there who congressman said just melted his heart, melted his heart. bashir some of you may know is the first sitting head of state to be-- but let's not be hasty

and the sanctions on sudan. let's engage them with business. let's love him to death with business. let's do business with this oil-rich regime. anyway he is now facing 15 years so we don't have to worry about him. we have to worry about uganda. uganda, a country not a lot of people pay attention to, but the family did. and they did so again with best of intentions. the many kind of force that relationship between the family in uganda considers himself a liberal, was pursuing what he thought was humanitarian work, sit hoarding a bright and shining hope or this african nation. 1986 when he began facilitating foreign aid, making connections for the new president in washington. the president had done a leftist the family wrote a document and it is important to keep this country christian. and so it had become christian.

revival nation and the christianity in uganda has done a lot of great things. they actually turned around the aids rate. at duke good things that a country who suffered under ed amine and a civil war that brought the state of power has had some kind of peace for 24 years. the family takes credit for these. it is a piece of the 24 year regime, what begins as democracy and incident dictatorship. he is clinging to power and becoming more vulnerable and he is reaching for strawman whom he can fight against and what they have done is come up with something called the anti-homosexuality pill. you may have heard about this. to muster connie and law in the world hands down. the death penalty for homosexuality for having sex more than once. one time you get life in prison. what i'm doing right now talking to you and listening, seven years in prison. if you are straight and there is

a person in this room and you know about it and you don't report them and 24 hours, three years in prison. now i went to uganda because i wanted to speak to the author of the bill who is sort of you might call him sort of the leader of the ugandan c street. he came to america, studied in arlington with the family, came to the national prayer breakfast, calls their family the american leader in uganda his mentor, called senator inhofe who visits often as a representative of the family a great man who is teaching uganda to manage themselves on the principles of jesus. what inhofe calls the political philosophy of jesus. david the hockey is the man's name. it's uganda and spent a lot of time with him. some of the american say it has gotten out of hand, heard that before, but you know he misunderstood. that is not what it is really about and it is not going to be the death penalty. i said well, david this spill

sounds kind of genocidal. uses no weird is going to kill the. [laughter] and i said but your l. only has the death penalty if you have sex more than once so really you are not in biblical because the bible says they killed people. he says it is not a perfect bill. we live in that democracy. step by step we will get there and he is liaising with the family parliament groups in tanzania rwanda and burundi, using this network that they build. whether or not they intended it, they have put the gun in his hands and he says hey when i shoot i'm just expressing at the local ideas that we share. i want to just read you a short passage, close with a passage from the book that shows what is at stake, was at stake in this and i'm not actually, spend a lot of time with wahhabi but i'm not going to tell that story will want to tell you the other side, the people who are already

running from this bill. the bill hasn't passed. you will hear apologists say no one has been arrested. every single person i met in uganda has been arrested multiple times. the police arrest them, beat them up and shake them down, kill and release until the killing starts program going to read about a young man a young man. this is how we came out. very devout christian, probably by standards most people of this room fundamentalist but he considered his homosexuality a gift from god, just like anyone else's sexuality. around the time blessed became blessed, he change his name with his family banish them come around the time blessed became blessed he began attending pentecostal churches spiritual places where you sang and danced and maybe experience the gift of tongues, babbling in language is granted to you by god. the songs were american as often as african. the churches were sprinkled with

handsome white men and there was a lot of laying on of hands. it felt cosmopolitan, international, modern. blessed's favor pastor was a man named martin who appeared in music videos in uganda ugandan pulpits in america where he was a favorite of pastor rick warren. every saturday night a party called prime time how to mccarry university outdoor pool. it was fun even though technically it was anti-fund, an absence really but blessing and plenty of street kids were there to cruise. it was hard not to. there is usually a thousand students, girls in their saturday best hot pink dresses and clinging bbt. voice dressed in american hip-hop, their pants low when his shirts giant in the young faces leaned. golden skin, the handsomest bald man you ever saw, a smooth man beckoning them from the stage across the pool glowed in the night. the band bumped and is that the kids themselves might actually

walk on the water. story he told was voice the same, sex. the rate of sex is going to be awesome. sex, it will be wonderful someday. sex, wait, wait just a little bit longer and then everybody would jump, 1000 sometimes 2000 young ugandans hopping as high as they could holding onto one another unless they fall in the pool giggling. holy laughter some call the. was it if they believe came from the holy ghost just like tongues. someone had heard about holy kissing another gift, not carnal, the spirit in the flesh. they were gay boys there and drinking some stray kids who might appear around the bend all of them waiting of course is standing, with the not having sex together except when they were. it was so blessed that then came the day blessed had to choose a side. it was 2007 and he was in court as a spectator and supporter. vacate being heard was victor acosta versus attorney general. victor mikasa, it transman

interested in girls taught blessed the suite-- to be a gay man without meeting him. black blessed, as a child mikasa knew she was attracted to children of the same-sex and black blessed she'd been raised catholic but joined an american pentecostal church hoping that in the music and the dancing in the holy ghost, the ecstasy she would find a resolution of her desires. julie was not as skilled at leading two lives. she dressed as victor and couldn't dress like a girl. ipac to determine if she was possessed by a male spirit. the exorcism took place at the altar in front of a thousand christianschristians, boys and men from the church of healing ministry laying on hands, speaking in tongues as women in the pews swayed and sang from from mikasa's liberation for freedom. they took her arms gently and firmly and then they held her and stripped her.

slowly garment by garment praying over each piece of demonically infuse cloth she had bound her and they bear them. i cried in every time i cried they would call it liberation. they slapped her but it was wholly slapping and when she stood before them completely make it the man's hands roaming over her body and then inside, they said that was wholly too and then they locked her in a room and raped her for a week. this is known as a corrective, and medical procedure, a cure. when it was all over the pastor declared the church had freed her in may be innocent they had. victor mikasa longer believe there was a demon inside of him. the demon was in that church. mikasa became a man and determined to prevent what happened to him from happening again, in 2003 he cofounded in lgbt rights group of freedom in the uganda and incredibly brave thing to do in that country. in 2005 ugandan police led by government officials raided his house. they did not find mikasa but a friend was there because they

took her down to the station, they stripped her. you look like a man they said. we are going to prove you are women. it happened again. mikasa fled and hiding in an exiled he plan. the plan was not day. it was human blessed would say. it was a citizens plan. mikasa sued and never was a lawsuit more like a gift of the spirit, the romance of the rule of law. blessed of course was a a romantic blanking of the trial is exciting. he wanted to be there and so did his friends. they would switch and be themselves. in victor mikasa. blessed could hardly wait. what he didn't know was his pastor was gathering and impose going for blessed with his head in a class. he had paid attention when he walked to the court from the could not have faced a stark choice. the two halves of his life sat on opposite sides of a out. blessed call church friends, the pastor himself saw him and blessed with them at the t-shirt

he had chosen for the occasion, a rainbow. elected the other side of the room. has gay friends with that, some of them side. they knew how it was. if he chose today they would forgive him tomorrow. if he didn't, the truth was he didn't know. all that would follow, all that he would lose was beyond the 17-year-old imagination. i don't know if i have a very strong heart he told me. i don't know if i'm a tough man. how did you make a choice? he gave me a smile, i had a breakthrough. a breakthrough in ugandan churches a spiritual term, gift from the holy ghost, great in whatever shape it is. i got courage. blessed sat down with the gay. that is for blessed came out. pastor some for who has received $50,000 in u.s. federal aid to fight aids called for a cure for

blessed as well. he was beaten badly. i visited the pastor's church and i asked some of the young people there, would you be willing to kill a gay person yourself? and the answer one woman said, well maybe if we did it together, like it was a date. there is a happy ending to this story. victor mikasa won the lawsuit. even in this country where the idea has been set on simmer you may be able to kill gay people but you have to do it legally. they are still due process. you can kick down doors but only if you have the warrant. a one. he won by invoking his rights as a citizen. he won also and i think you can say blessed one by invoking their rights as christians. i don't want to put this whole thing in the context of christianity but that is the great thing about fundamentalism that i want to close with. fundamental and has a small d democratic tradition i spoke a. i in the book with a fundamentalist street preacher who in 2041 to the rnc in new

york. is going to vote for the republicans but is going to protest him because he thought conservatism is a crock. he said the poor people needed a lot more than that. that is what scripture said and i said so why are you here? i want to give god a voice. you don't think god can be your god a voice in madison square garden? he goes no, no i want to make god a part of the crowd. want to give them a voice in the crapper gore want him to be a part of the noise. this phrase that james buchanan, maybe the worst president in american history contributed this one could thought. he said i like the noise of democracy. i like the debates, the arguments, the romance of the rule of law and that is our solution i think to the fundamentalism of c street, the solution is available to all of us whether we are believers or nonbelievers and i will stop there. thanks very much. [applause]

>> can you go to the mic please? it is right around the corner from you, over here. it is right here. >> may i start? i am wondering, i am concerned and i think you are as well with the fundamentalism in the military. and i'm wondering if c street influence the military or the military influence the street or where is the connection if there is one? and could you talk a little about the fundamentalism in the military to start with to set the background? >> thanks. there is a long chapter in the book. you sort of follow the money out of c street and end up in the darkest manifestation of the gun and then you bring it home and the u.s. military, where the situation has gotten to be where i spoke to the three-star

general who didn't know what the first month-- amendments that i didn't care, officers who said they are fighting a holy war in afghanistan. you can see video of the top chaplain in afghanistan chatting to his troops, we are the new israel, we are than israel comparing the u.s. solitary put terry to special forces. i spoke to a man who drove a bradley fighting vehicle is a fast-moving tank with a special forces unit calling himself a faith element. they had the translator paint jesus killed mohammad in big arabic letters on the side and they drew with her somalia. every family, every person that took a shot at them and people who were not insurgents you can imagine did the tank wasn't going to get hurt. he turned the big guns and blew up their house and destroyed almost a whole book. i asked him, how did you do it? he misunderstood the question. he thought, would i do it too? he said i was spiritually armored. i could be hurt because my chaplain gave me a screening of

mel gibson's passion of christ. he has been promoted. in fact you asked about the connection between c street and i said they are a movement, kind of hard-edged fundamentalism. c street represents a much softer sell and even the story i tell in uganda, the americans are quite embarrassed by what is going on in uganda. that is not what they meant to happen. but they are not quite taking responsibility for what they have brought there. the military got guns. it is much rougher. there is a connection and the way the story began for me, christian embassies, a group proselytize as the pentagon and that is fine, you can do that. a video featuring seven flag officers for christ in uniform on duty and if there any military people in the room you know how big that is. there are a dod inspector general for kind of took a look at this and gave him a slap on the wrist, a whitewash and

impacts most of them were promoted. you look at who is the dod guy? he happens to be on the board of the fellowship foundation which is one of the nonprofits connected with the family. not only that, he started christian embassy and the pentagon. investigated himself and done himself not guilty. so there is a connection but they are running parallel trends. is frightening is when you have those different kinds of fundamentalism and political fundamentalism. want to distinguish that from the ordinary good faith out there. political vandalism is emerging. i spoke to another three-star general afraid to put a name to his worst because at this point he feels his career would be stopped at the to this. could be a little braver on that and i guess we have cameras on this. i can't even use language he used. he said we have been reduced to an f-16 crown-- and the vast majority of people are doing their jobs, the concentrated core that think they are fighting holy war.

>> there is a long chapter in this book probably more than you want to know so it is in there. . >> i will just be brief. i am vince tracy. year ago i filed were sent an e-mail to the d.c. tax office, the text on hotline complaining about the tax-exempt status of the so-called house on c street and about six months later i checked and they had revoked most of their tax-exempt status. and, for all the d.c. taxpayers who pay their property taxes last september said i checked the web site today. c street is $8000 behind in their taxes. they paid nothing in taxes on september 15. they still all about $3000 from their march 31 taxes, and they seem to be giving themselves a great big stimulus tax cut. >> thank you vince tracy, and you know that is a citizen's response.

>> that is all the info. >> grade, thank you. it is an envelope. you have to be careful. [laughter] >> it is a stack of 100-dollar bills. [laughter] >> you nother thing c street is still taxes and federally and still registered as a church. again this points to why this is not a fight between believers and nonbelievers. another group that is doing the same thing is called clergy boys, dumb nomination all the pastors out in ohio who thinks he street is giving church a bad name. they are literally not fulfilling the openness that is required of a church so they are pressing the irs to reconsider bad and we will see what comes up their cause. >> hello. the family or the new yorkers show the family in a way different light, much better i would say and is a very credible

magazine in the kind of conflicts with your point of view. would you mind explaining? >> well, i don't want to pick too much of a fight with "the new yorker." but i will. in this case. [laughter] when that piece came out i got a call from fact checker and i was little concern because they had an advance copy of this thing and it gets into the competitions of publishing and so on. i said well, you did your own research? fact checker said oh yeah, mr. buyer did his own archival research. i've wondered about certain document he had. oh know, yet those documents. really, because they are restricting the archive. you can't get them now. he must have done a special exception. i used to work for the chronicle of higher education here in town. that is an issue of interest to academic researchers. some people getting special exceptions an archive so i brought that up to them. now later again e-mail, correction, mr. buyer did not

visit the archives and documents were provided to him by a member of the family. that is not research. when you go when you talk to an organization you say hey how do you see yourself like that that is a q&a. it is useful. i'm glad for what he did. the access they gave him. you going you look at some of the discussions the group was having, working with a pr man named ross who was in correspondence with uganda and the americans, promoting "the new yorker" is a bigger magazine ben "harper's" that i published on uganda which is true. and one of the things they found most chilling and most disturbing is i know there are people who are concerned about the case in uganda and would not like it to be like that that but someone suggested you know, sharlet is not the problem. this guy in uganda proposing this idea and doing it as one of us and not being held accountable, that is a problem. that is what is making us look bad and the answer was he is not

the problem. sharlet is the enemy. i would argue that is the case of misplaced priorities and something that should have been in "the new yorker" story and something else that should've been in "the new yorker" story was that bill is a dead and "the new yorker" story made it look like that. that is incredibly dangerous. their people in uganda right now who are in danger. david called me after came out and he said you know this new yorker guy, he never interviewed me. he never asked me what i was doing, never had any connections. those questions need to be asked. with respect to peter buyer he is done a lot of great journalism over the years. i think in this case he dropped the ball. >> i think that tying david body to the fellowship is like tying reverend wright to obama con ed hilt by association qaeda think. >> noticed on let me clarify why. david is the secretary of the ugandan fellowship parliament.

his group includes inhofe, ashcroft, rick warren. tim kreuter the american leader there is his mentor. they make a their calls, calls himself the mentor. >> obama was a mentor, reverend wright was his mentor as well. >> i asked him, is there a connection between this bill and the fellowship? he said there is no connection evolve. it is the fellowship, we wrote it. he brought it to the fellowship, an international-- gathering of international leaders at a time. reasons than when have the option to this? area for debate. he says he got a green light after became controversial. they said no no we cautioned you. even though the mac and leaders in uganda still say we neither support nor condemn the bill. with that i think we should leave that aside and go on to more questions and if you want to talk about it afterwards i would be glad to. >> could you tell us would have been the major sources of funding?

>> yeah it is kind of interesting. if you look at the tax rates, and a group of interlocking nonprofits, one called the fellowship foundation, sort of the mothership. 17 million, 19 million not really huge sums for an organization like this and historically most of the money has come from, you know these characters i think of as the little big men out there who have made a fortune with a gravel quarry or a supermarket chain. they are not really connected and the idea of meeting a senator and playing golf with the senator is very appealing to them and he can raise a lot of money that way. there are other sources. for instance the cedars cedars in arlington which purchased in part with donations and the ceo from raytheon defense contractor a number of oilmen have made their resources available to the group over the years. they see the value of those connections, but the real money or not the real money but the

money that is hard to track is the money that is off the books, what the group sometimes calls the financial man-to-man method, which is to say i give you a gift. we don't recorded. that by the way is how the payoff to ensign's mistress took place and several lump sum to $12,000 which is a limit beyond which you have to report gifts to the mistress and her family to be quiet. >> thank you. >> as someone who has a personal interest i'm going to ask this question, because your last book in this book have probably publicize people who have a lot of power and might get angry about it. do you ever feel personally threatened? have you gotten got any letters or hate mail because of your reportage? >> i got a promotion the family. 2004, 2005 something like that former senator dan coats referred to me as an enemy of jesus and as you heard me just

say i am now the enemy. [laughter] so moving up in the world. they are recognizing my work. they are coming out to join us and talk with us. last night i was at the press club the night-- actually some guys that attempted to to stay in dialogue with. look, omir publisher melts your heart. could i really be that much worse? a suicidal maniac. if you can pursue reconciliation with them you can pursue it with me and we can talk about this because i do believe these guys do pursue this with the best intention. that said so i've never been any danger that i know that i don't think i would be. the real risk, the real risk is overseas where friends of the family aren't as gentle and i think particularly in the book i write about senator coburn in lebanon doing his messianic muslim work and part of the way i told that story was a project,

school that presented itself to the public-- helping muslim kids get to america. little that the parents know what the school was about was the principles of jesus. i learned this from a canadian lebanese man. he put his name to his word and he knew he is going to be in danger. this was his home village. he was invited to come back are very returned and he said i'm going to go and help us. again around he said this is kind of strange. even then he said i don't quite agree with this and seems like we should be honest about what we are doing here. at the native and english balances out. he got upset when some family leaders including senator coburn visited the school and some of the businessmen were introduced to his class of orphans. these kids aren't orphans. they are not orphans. they were raising money by telling the american visitors,

these are orphans. that was enough for him. he had met doug coats who had been the leader of the group and have been to washington and that had been troubling to him to-- said he decided to speak out and says this last week i learned, he was dealing with some rougher character so now here's the thing-- facing death threats. he is hired a bodyguard. he is being discredited and being told by his friend, people are saying that the family's friends in lebanon. again this is not coburn doing this and you can say there is guilt by association but i would like to see senator coburn step up and say that is not what i meant. that is not what i was teaching there. people are saying working for the jewish, jeff sharlet yet another promotion as far as i'm concerned. that is the danger, where guys like less than a story, victor mikasa, those people are in danger. the family is in a position to do something good, to do something great there.

i spoke with one man who said there there is always a tension between access and accountability. if we hold our foreign connections accountable for their actions and we will lose access and how can we do good work? how we can help the poor by helping the strong? the basic question, at what point you save the time is come to use accountability. the time has come to play your cards. it is time to play their cards and i think that is what we are waiting for them to do before lessened or someone else gets hurt. >> one of the parts of the first book, the family, that i found most interesting is the sort of bipartisan nature of the family and less we think this is inhofe, coburn, sanford and so on were all republicans, could you just comment on their connection to say hillary, the clintons during that presidency and her times of trouble and

some of the other democrats? there are a couple of democrats. >> there are a number and always have been. in the past those democrats were not as liberal. strom thurmond comes to mind. or my favorite, absalom willis roberts and senator of virginia and pat robertson's father, who was a leader of the group in the 50s, it dixiecrat. now you see guys like bart stupak. conservative but not far right wing except on the issue of abortion. a democrat lived in c street represented mike mcintyre, pretty much as far right wing as it gets. did a democrat from north carolina. senator mark pryor of arkansas who has since decided doesn't want to be associated with the group anymore but when i spoke to him originally he said he learned the meeting of bipartisanship from them. they told him jesus didn't come to take sides, not republican or democrat.

he came to take over. pryor by the way to understand them as a democrat, is anti-, antiabortion, pro-war, anti-labor, anti-health care and he has other fuse but he is a democrat. that is what is interesting about this group, they survived this long because they are not rigid enough sense embedded in how he want to define it differently than the populist fundamentalism. the fundamentalism of the idea that every decision must be filtered through jesus. the ideas people excited to me that jesus is central to every religion. just look at it, jeff. this is christianity. jesus is central to christianity. jesus is central to islam. that is a stretch. jesus is important in iran but he is not central. the real kicker was when he said jesus is central to judaism.

[laughter] that was interesting to me and i said no, he's not. jesus comes at the end, right? i said no, kind of cuts off before we get to jesus. i hate to break it to you. just not at the party. [laughter] but it is that idea that they feel like they are being open-minded. they feel like they are being a commendable-- ecumenical. they say we are bringing republicans and democrats together, and they think in some ways your attitudes toward this group might be shaped by your editorial towards bipartisanship. if you feel that bipartisanship is worth it at any cost, this group is for you. but if you feel that political parties and politicians should stand for ideas, that the noise of democracy emerges from the sharp elbows of debate, then i think you are going to have a

problem with the ideological approach of the organization. >> okay, last questions. >> one interesting development, and the african situation has seen the emergence of this relatively homogenous and almost uniformly notion of lichen africanism. i know people like symbiont bahadi pronouncing on what is not authentic louis african. become largely seen as this imperial moral intrusion so i'm wondering if he could talk a little bit about theological and ideological context this rhetoric of the kind of populist like post-colonialism operates and what the family has been doing and associated with the families are doing? >> i should clarify, martin simplot who is a pastor in the story not a part of that family. what you are looking at is that convergence of many different

strands of thought. there a senator in half and then there are martin themba and all sorts of other guys. whole of their pentecostal anglican thing going on. there a lot of issues there and certainly what is interesting in uganda and elsewhere in africa is homosexuality is come to be a metaphor for the west, and you see people responding to what they feel is the heavy hand of europe and america by understanding it through something that is taboo in many of those countries. i want to make a distinction between taboo and. to do in uganda, we deceased not talk about this or as the minister of ethics and integrity, james the taro the chairman of the family's parliament group explained to me, this issue began around 2003, 2004. this one became a problem. but it begins expressing itself as this kind of antagonism

toward the west and it makes it very difficult to respond. and frankly, i think again, a lot of lgbt rights groups have unfortunately made the situation worse. sometimes if you look at germany which i believe offered uganda $148 million to scrap the bill and david bahadi says what about democracy? how would you like in america of china came in and just said you know we can tell you are down on your luck and we are going to give you some money. they invoke sovereignty which is a different issue. there is a question of human rights and the question of uganda's economy which is so dependent on foreign aid. the country is just not sovereign, does not but that transformation, the wait is because a metaphor and that is what a sex of the most threatening thing the way homosexuality because the metaphor for western intervention. i talk about the idea of genocide, the real danger when i spoke to ugandans there is not actually a mass crackdown on

ugandans. bahadi at one point suggested that rachel maddow and i were a couple, to give you a sense of a deep understanding of what is up against. [laughter] minister of ethics who said homosexuality is genocide against africa. there may be as many as 100 in uganda at this moment. they don't see that. what could happen and i think with the fear is is here's a country that has been held together by the strongman. did altogether as a country they could face civil war to certain point. is kind of a patch together country with a lot of different ethnic rivals and what has happened already is charging someone with homosexuality has become an effective weapon, doesn't matter what they are. call them and you can take them out. when that explodes in an ethnic group that is when you get genocide echo i don't think that will happen, but here we