respond with horror to what is terrific because horror is not the essence of our being. >> are you also a resident of south africa? >> i'm not. i'm actually a resident of alexandria, virginia. >> along abu lived in lived in the state? >> more than 20 years, except that i'm only 23. >> do you miss -- do you miss home? >> yes, i do. i miss home a lot. and i was the executive or of the institute, i get to go home at least once a year, taking trips with me on pilgrimage. >> mpho tutu is the author of "made for goodness: and why this makes all the difference." her co-author is the reverend desmond tutu.

>> coming up, thomas allen presents a history of tory americans during the american american revolution. self-proclaimed loyalist to the british crown, and he recounts the strongholds of new york and philadelphia. the civil war that took place among the american populace and the migration of 80,000 tories, most of them left for canada. thomas allen presents his book at the library of congress in washington d.c. it's 40 minutes. >> i'm not supposed to have to plug the library of congress, but it's inevitable. a few years ago, i got a call from an historian at the cia, whom i'd met when i've been working on george washington book about intelligence and the revolutionary war. and he says comes the library of congress is something that might be interested, call this number. i thought wow, maybe the cia

really does have people who, just like in seven days of people reading books all the time. well, it wasn't quite that. what it happened was the library had got a manuscript that had been written by a tory in connecticut during the revolution, who is under house arrest for his tory thought. and he decided he would write his own history of america, particularly the revolution. and his name was constant tiffani. and in the manuscript, he gives a look at why he was a tory, it's kind of folding into some other almonds and the revolution. well, the point about it was a founder break here. it wasn't that i found it. it was time for me, which is what happens. this is a wonderful place to

work. that was one of the objects that started me going on the book. i had an editor one-time who set me to tell me that the story. just read the story and turn it in. and i usually follow that. but there are some elements to this. i also was about to say interesting, but i have another editor who says no, i tell you something interesting. you don't tell me. so anyhow, i started looking around at the idea of a book on the tories. but i dismissed the idea because john nodded and said that you can't write a good history of the american revolution because certain records are absolutely missing. they don't exist. and one was that the records showing where the tories became tories and what the british were doing to encourage the existence

of a tory element in the american colonies. and the other side of records that he said were impossible to find what the records about the ruffles did to the tories. and that's kind of intriguing because each assertively sit there. well, i decided i would start doing some other things and as abbey said, i come in here and find elements for you. but everything was sort of moving toward a book on somewhere in the 18th century. i thought of the scots irish and i did a proposal, a book or postal. and an editor who thought that this is all very interesting, but why not do a book on the tories. there hasn't been one briton and a long time. so that was it. and it did become a quest for a record. and the records were all over the place.

a lot of them here -- a lot of them in canada because that's where a lot of the tories went. and there were records in england. and they were records and the state archives. there wasn't any country yet, so there couldn't have been much in the national archives. but in the state archives, for instance, in delaware, there was a blood thirsty set of folders in what they called their treason file because they declared that if you were a tory and you did anything that looked like he was going to be raising her against the rebellion, you could be hanged. well, that was the beginning of the discovery that one of the reasons -- well, i was trying to find out why is it we don't know much about tories? i mean, i read a lot about the 18th century and george

washington and so forth and they couldn't really understand why they are standing out there and they weren't being covered. well, two things came to mind. one was whether ireland. my wife tonight, as i sit in the acknowledgments, her hand is actually on the impressions of xerox machines as they were copying documents and i could see her hand. so her hand was literally in alternate research of this book. but we were in ireland and we met an irish historian. and i was telling him about working on this subject and how little there was available, at least at first glance. and he said well, every country has a grand story. and they developed by grand story and things fall away and make you underground and the art scene. and i think you're tories are probably there in the underground somewhere.

and that was a great insight. and the other thing i discovered was that there was tremendous brutal, vicious, bloody atrocious fighting that went on in that underground and nobody really like to talk much about that either, tempering his play. so we started trying to find a way to get the idea across. now here is one exercise, which i found myself doing. i'd written a book for young adults on valley forge. and i sort of went back in my mind and said, okay, here is george washington and the remnants of the continental army starving to death. no shoes. dying and asserting by the dozens. twenty miles away as philadelphia.

in philadelphia, the occupying forces of the british army are having a grand time. they are not starving to death. they're getting three meals a day. more remarkably when you poke into a little bit more, you find that there are some eyewitness accounts of the british coming into philadelphia, british army. congress had skedaddled a short time before. liberty hall is going to have a british flag flying over it in a few minutes. as the british coming to philadelphia, the streets were lined with cheering people. when the british start settling in, some of these cheering people go to the british and say what you like to know where the rebel leaders are? and they take the british around in the rebel leaders are put into a jail in philadelphia. well, that's the other side of valley forge. that the reason there was a

valley forge, one of the reasons certainly was that there was a great deal of hesitation to openly support the continental army in a lot of areas of america and a lot of time during the revolution. and that was not much of a discovery, but it gave me a kind of insight. and i started looking at them with a little more deeply. and it turns out that so many loyalists by some estimates, 80,000 other estimates of hundred thousand, somewhere in that range but the united states of america because they were tories. they called themselves loyalists , but we called them tories, we americans. and that's a funny thing to say. i realized very early in the game i couldn't use the word americans very easily and this book because everybody's in

american. if you go back to about 1760, everybody is a tory essentially. they're all british subjects. they are seeing the king as the man who they're going to worship every sunday if as most of them were, their anglicans and acquaint you pray pray for the king. in their wherewithal -- there's only one trading partner. and that's the way things were. but as the revolution started to percolate and the sons of italy -- sons of italy, wow, where my? the sons of liberty started functioning in boston and in new york. things started to change and a group started to question the resolution. for a while it was a political

debate. i came across a club that was formed to implement. it was formed in 1770 or 7071. cut a look at that. it's in the book. and it was called the old colony club. it was founded formerly beit descendents of the passengers on the mayflower. i mean, the reason for her pedigree than to say you're descended from mayflower. while a lot of the people were descended from the mayflower in the generation of the revolution were tories. well, they formed a club and they decided that they would celebrate the landing from the mayflower every year. they didn't call it thanksgiving. they just said they would have a big dinner at the colony club,

the old colony club. pay about the third year, there are people in the club who are starting to think i want to be a tory. i want to be a rebel. and what happens finally is the sons of liberty in 1774, 75, say that there is not going to anymore colony club in planet. we're going to take us down that the pilgrim said they stepped on, no proof of that by the way, but there was a stone even then it was a steppingstone. supposedly there were people he said that descended from the woman whose foot touched that so she was brave enough to come ashore. so they took the stone and got a lot of oxfam, and let us strong lives in plymouth.

and i started lifting the stone into a cart. the idea was they were going to take it to the center of planet under what was then a liberty poles, flying from the liberty poles as any one of several flights that represented the revolution. and when they take the stone out, it's split. they left one part in the ocean and took the other part into plymouth. and that was the first idea that they talk about the splitting of the stone because they were seeing what was going on. they were going back to tiffany's manuscript. he is very outraged by the revolution on religious grounds. he says that the sadness is being violated again and again by the rebels, that were there have only been good, there is

not evil. he sees the moral and religious basis for this. other people saw other reasons. and i felt that i couldn't really go into the reasons that much because there seem to be an individual reason for each person. the other thing is that there was an historian in the 19th century was trying to round up information for loyalists and he produced biographies of hundreds of them. and he said he wished he could have found more, but that if you had been defeated in a revolution, if your land is taken away, if you have been tourister self come you don't do much writing about your experience. well, there was a journal that i came across right here by a man named stephen jürgen.

stephen writes a journal when he's in maturity, but he starts it with the first news coming in from lexington and concord, reaches denver connecticut a few days after the shot heard round the world. and he's an 18-year-old kid. and he has a girlfriend named emilia and he joins the rebel militia. rebel militia is the captain of the rebel militia is one of his uncles. his father is a tory. his father throws them out of the house. he said he took me by the arm and threw me out of the house. so he stays in the rebel militia for a short time and then thinks better of it. and he does something that

hundreds of people, of young men and some families did eventually. if you look at what happens early in the revolution, when the continental army loses the valley at long island becomes a stronghold for tories. if a magnet for anybody lives on the other side of long island sound. all the little towns along the fairfield county shoreline are called tori towns by the rebels because all you have to do is get in the boat and boat for sale across long island sound, good to long island and the british me with open arms and you'll find yourself among friends. so hundreds of people go across. one of them is stephen. when he gets there, steven jarvis in less -- i'm sorry, the

queens rangers. the queens rangers is one of 150 or more, at least 150 military units formed by tories to fight, not just debate, fight other americans who are rebels. and if you want, follow stephen's journal, one of the first remarkable things about it is the journalist card and americans experience in the british army. he's not in the british army. he's in a tory army unit that was formed by tories in new york and will fight alongside for independent of the british army. but it's not the british army. when not, just like would have

been with tiffany's manuscript, the manuscript for jarvis' journal was found in a trashcan and published in 1907. in 1907, we didn't want to think of the revolution is anything but the revolution. and we couldn't use the term civil war because we have got the north-south real civil war only a generation before. so the whole term civil war kind of goes away and so does the idea of tories. well anyway, jarvis goes to war. he fights and battles all the way from new jersey down to georgia and florida. he kills americans and writes about it. well, when the war ends, he's been in the tory regimen and

seen plenty of battle for seven years. he comes back to denver, connecticut, where he is green loyalists uniform. the loyalists frequently when i get outfitted for whatever recruited them working uniforms to distinguish themselves from the redcoats. so he walks into dan barry and he expects he's going to marry a millionaire. and then they will settle down again very. when you read that, you say this is that going to happen. they decide what they're going to do is have a relative who was in anglican clergymen know how the clergymen are them and the local anglican church. what stephen doesn't know so that anglicans churches were closed during the revolution because the anglicans started their services by praying for the king. if you're paying for the king

you're in trouble and you could wind up in jail or in the house arrest may consider tiffany. or there was also a copper mine up in connecticut. if you attend a couple hundred feet into the coppermine, there were little fellas there and you might end up there. so, he comes back to dan barry and finds that the anglican church is closed. they get themselves a minister and he buries them. and a mob comes to the house. he talks them on down and then the next day, the day after his wedding, the local sheriff rushes into the fragile chamber and says get out of town. what he didn't know is if you had taken arms against the rebels and from connecticut, you are subject to treason and hanging. so eventually, he and his wife,

they try to stick it out as long as they can, but they're threatened and they finally go to canada with their infant child. and when i started looking at the canadian exodus, what's happening is the british want the loyalists to stay here, but the loyalists start to feel the urge to get out. and one reason they want to get out is because they are losing land. the confiscation of land was consistent through the revolution. every one of the states have some kind of the law about confiscation. and there are also laws that were charging him with treason. well, what they do is go to canada. because the british to the

benefit of getting a group of british speaking british subjects up into canada to counteract those people in québec who are catholic and speak french. so the area of what is now nova scotia and new brunswick becomes the homeland of the people who left america. and they are given axes, army rations, some tents in some cases, lumber and other cases, told to cut down the trees and start some communities, which they do. they're very proud of it today. if you're a descendent of one of the loyalists who cannot or, you can put a u. e. after your name as united empire that they help preserve the empire. and if you want to know what the tories wanted them that their

intention was if they had one, just look at canada. that whole steadfast or that we talked about canada. the canadian study that came from the fact that they were founded by non-revolutionaries, people who really kept their heads about them and they had gone up there and started to kind of country they wish we had had here. parliament, constitutional monarchy and freedom of speech. all the little freedoms we have. as we look to canada as cousins, but now you can look at canada is even more so. these are the people who didn't want revolution. and the people who did want the revolution, pretty obviously one. but i think in one of the legacies that the tories had ended the legacy we can feel sort of tremors about today is that no matter what you do,

there is dissent. in some cases, violent bloody murder is dissent inside we the people. and the first generation of politicians in america supposedly they're not. and i guess the lesson continues until today. so that's the tories on a kind of philosophical plane. i will field questions about the blood and the hangings. [laughter] [applause] >> gap, thank you. >> of the 110,000 with that, a lot of them came back. you have any idea how many came back? >> know, what happens is you can see references. first of all, there's a little matter of the war of 1812. a lot of the sons of loyalists

come across the border. if we have the roster of who burned washington, i think we'd find some names, some of their names among. so once you get to the work 1812, which essentially that england said were not interested the new england war of 1812 refused to send militia. so when new england, yeah, they're coming back. they're coming back to a? to coming back to not having their farms anymore. they have to start all over again. but she find preferences of the sun and the tory married a daughter of a rebel and vice versa. so it starts to recover. and particularly and there's a lot of celebration of this in massachusetts particularly. i mean, here is the center of a doll and he becomes the center of reconciliation. there is no richard duchenne to

speak of. were not the french revolution and safety felt really turned out to be canada a thing. if there hadn't been canada, we would still be in revolution probably. [inaudible] >> a ticket all these other things were going on? >> gal, the tories here and there, particularly -- i mean, one example is william franklin, the son of an franklin had been the royal governor of new jersey. and he is arrested for being the governor essentially and put in jail. he escapes and winds up in new york, which was of course under british occupation throughout the war and starts up a guerrilla organization, which is

operating outside of british hierarchal control. produced army said about. and they do use the word terror. and they wait hours on the rebel houses as an indication that you can do anything you want to anybody in that test because it's a rebel. this is basically in new jersey and make it difficult to trip around ironically because they won't be any armies there, but there are loyalists and rebels fighting each other on a guerrilla bases. so yeah, if you look at the revolution kind of microscopically coming to see about 700 some odd battles and skirmishes and 500 son -- about 550 of them involve tory military units. the most amount of one is in kingstown on the north carolina, south carolina border where

there are about 900 rebels so that rounded up to fight a tory unit called the american legion, which is commanded by a british officer named ferguson. eventually a battle takes place. there are a thousand tories in 1900 rebels. when the battle is overcome the bengals went knows when and if fishes. they will not honor the flag is surrender. they start hanging people. and nobody on that field was anything but an american except for one british officer. and it's kind of to be symbolic of the fact that you can't really talk about americans when you're in this war. you've got to call them something because they are all americans. >> you mentioned the carolinas. does the character of the rebellion different they are,

more bloodthirsty clerics and mean, i remember reading about the regulator movement. >> yeah, the british really expected strategically that if they could take this out, they could stop the revolution. essentially all of the southern colonies would become british and it would starve out or destroy the revolution. and they put great hope in the loyalists that were there. one of the problems they had was they didn't do anything strategically. the british army didn't want to cooperate very much with tories. and there was a cast, a class issue involved, in my opinion. the other thing that has happened is very early in the war, the royal governor of virginia declared that any slave going over to the british would be giving his or her freedom.

and a lot of those former slaves went on to fight for the british. not just -- a lot of them are called pioneers and they would build fortifications into jobs. there was one regiment called the ethiopian regiment is that freedom for slaves. and so, the stampings loyal as the, especially by the ruling class because they were seeing so many slaves go over to the british. at the end of the war, when the loyalists are going to canada, about 3500 were given land and start a colony in canada. just as a footnote to that, about 10 years later they say

we're not getting a good deal here in canada, japan lousy land or mistreated. and they asked the british to send them to sierra leone and essentially they formed the modern state of sierra leone to another result of the revolution . [inaudible] >> and a history teacher would pay no attention. and so, five years ago when i was back, i looked in the library, but they had names. on the sides do it for each houses, and they had funny names. >> cowboys. >> cowboys and something -- >> when was the cowboys. the cowboys got to be everybody for while.

but there were cream coated greeters. and i forgot the name they had. one of the little footnotes of history as i went andre leaves benedict arnold after having obtained the defense of west point, he's walking along in a british uniform with a coat on nbc's three nondescript soldiers and he assumes they are tories and says i'm a british officer. and they say welcome to reality. we are not. so that's how -- that's how mixed up it was in west chester, yeah. it was delaying its cowboys -- delancey's cowboys. [inaudible]

>> you want to get out of here early, don't bring up john topic. he's an incredible character. he does a portrait of paul revere one day and another day he does a portrait of the british commander of the red coats in boston. and there is a wonderful story. before the revolution in a riot against the existing governor, his name is bernard, the riot spills out into the halls of harvard and there's a portrait of bernard -- bernard and one of the halls. at one of the rebels get on somebody's shoulders i guess in the café section out of the portrait would have been any holds up and says i've taken bernard carter. well, harvard calls on john

singleton copley to repair the portrait since he had painted it. and copley shows up and he repairs. and then from then on he is a marked man and he leads the country before the revolution starts and becomes a member of what is called the loyalists club in london. >> thomas allen is the author of several books, including remember valley forge and thigh master. for more information about the author in his new book, visit "tories: fighting for the king in america's first civil war".com. >> cleo paskal, "global warring," not global warming. >> is a bit of an extreme title. a lot of the analysis about climate change darts but that's going to get warmer and the levels will rise a little bit. it goes on to say what this

actually means in terms of national security, global economic issues and geopolitical issues. we're starting a little bit in the arctic more suddenly there is conflict where there had been before. and new players are coming into areas that are completely unexpected. so china has an icebreaker. china is not arctic tower, but they know what's going on caused by kind of change and they want a piece of the action. it's re-changing the way global politics and economics are and are a little bit disconcerting. >> why would china and icebreaker what's going on that particular should be concerned about? >> major oil and gas fills the heart to occur in russia. the pipelines in russia, like the alaska pipeline are spot on building permafrost. a pipeline is only good as the complaint. part of it goes on and what was delivery systems. it makes sense in that situation and start shifting. if russia starts to shift shipping, that means they're not tied into liberty are. they can deliver to china instead.

so they can continue to supply without losing revenue stream. now the turn off the top of this revenue stream. they watch a piece about action, so should the russian arctic oil and gas. >> what is your background? how did you get involved with this issue? >> i was a journalist for a long time and never do correspondence. i went to places like tougaloo and the pacific. it comes to a place where it's going to disappear cover the rising levels. they start to wonder, what does that actually mean? you know, this is a country? does it lose its seat in the u.n.? to become international waters? you'd see china and taiwan and eventually the u.s. as well. the u.s. pulled out after the cold war. now hillary clinton was just in america of all places. the area is really getting quite extreme. so if you get countries disappearing, that chessboard, but well-balanced geopolitical

test court starts to shift in ways that we have a really considered and perhaps should be considered. >> cleo paskal. "global warring: how environmental, economic, and political crises will redraw the world map." >> visit booktv.org to watch any of the programs you see your online. type the author or title in the upper left side of the page and click search. you can also share anything you've seen on booktv.org easily by clicking shared on the upper left side of the page. an online for 48 hours every weekend with top nonfiction books and authors. the tv.org. >> john dower is the author of "cultures of war: pearl harbor, hiroshima, 9-11, iraq" he's joining us now. he's a finalist for the national book award in the nonfiction

category. professor dower, what is the similarity between pearl harbor and 9/11. >> that's what the book began to 9/11, headlines all over as the day of infamy. some of them quoted roosevelt's famous saying it will live in infamy and they said surprise attack. to use the words, casa. they went back to pearl harbor to grasp the enormity of this. and i've written on a show i've done a lot of thinking about the war. and a couple more complicated because it's funding to failure of intelligence of surprise attack. then it would get into world war ii, where you had the fireman picture brazing the stars and

stripes. there is iwo jima. the president began calling for war on terror and then he began quoting roosevelt and truman. so it went from pearl harbor and 9/11 into world war ii. another the world trade center ruins ground zero to learn a whole different dimension of world war ii. so what began with 9/11 and then became much more common. >> tied together hiroshima and iraq. >> well, the real tie is hiroshima and 9/11. that is the real tie because ground zero is an atomic bomb freeze. that was the original association. and that goes to the question of

bombing or deliberately targeting civilians. and that's a practice that comes out of world war ii, in world war ii he wanted to destroy enemy morale with the anglo-american were problems in the united states. it was done in germany. so, the ground zero 45 ground zero 2001 is the link. the iraq link was a choice to begin with because we go from 9/11, this war of choice by the islamist terrorists to the japanese war of choice earlier and there is a parallel. and suddenly we have a war of choice against iraq. and then we have a terrific failure of intelligence on iraq, gestate disasters failure of intelligence on the part of the united states.

and so then you've got pearl harbor, which was a japanese tactically brilliant strategic thing. you have the choice of islamic. climate historians and i went to understand its mom of the same. but i wanted to see how you could do comparatively about war and then every side is talking holy wars. and war has always been with us in our modern times, even with our new technologies. and i really want to wrestle with it. to get some things for myself. >> vietnam is not a focus of your book. why? >> it is not a focus of the book because they were simply not space to do it. the vietnam figures and is one of the major cultures of four.

it is mentioned in passing and a number of ways. vietnam figures in both of the place where you deliberately targeted noncombatants. vietnam figures and in a different way in the failures of intelligence. and i read about this at some length. the subtitle could only be so low. it wasn't that i was going back to vietnam. but the striking thing in the failure of intelligence was that india we had basically the united states had lost in an insurgent be. and after vietnam, we seized to study counterinsurgency in the u.s. government was dropped from the military academy. so we were going to get involved in a. and there was no preparation for what we encountered in iraq and afghanistan. afghanistan of course and i

focused mostly on iraq at a mayor, the failure of intelligence on our part, on the u.s. part was extraordinary. so i was trying to think of this overtime. and one thing if it takes you to think imperatively about the u.s. in ways that are sometimes a bit taboo and a little bit uncomfortable. it's not saying it's all the same. but also, when you step back in history and look at the bigger picture, you're going back to world war ii. you're going back to other things. at one point in the book i end up in the philippines at the turn-of-the-century, you know when the u.s. conquered the philippines in 1898, early 1900s. and all the rhetoric was there. i have a line in the book do you

want to find a ghost behind the ghost writers do you go back to the philippines. the rhetoric, the language is all there. so to think about war as a culture is very painful. it's painful because it's asking very hard things about us as human beings, not about american or something. it's about us as human beings and a modern age where we have war with us all the time. the technology may change, but somehow we're out to disk loyal and it's hard to get out. do we do it above the levels of the individual in the institutions. so at the end i came upon talking about concepts of pathology, of individual pathologies and institutional, bureaucratic dysfunctions. very, very hard things to wrestle wi