to have it wrapped up by then, then personally i would say we might as well start leaving now because you cannot get there from here. >> host: it actually stretched it out least chairman joint chiefs and the secretary gates have talked about 2014 persuading the nato allies that is more realistic time frame. but even looking at 2014, given the history in afghanistan, given the problems of illiteracy, given the power of the warlords etc. that you have articulate is it any more realistic 2014 will be in the situation to say it can be a stable country and not provide a haven? >> guest: i don't think to say you can't start pulling forces out in a major way between now and 2014 or even shortly thereafter is probably realistic. it is a long term if you want to fix this country it will take a long time and i will say conservatively and out eight to

ten years would be more realistic. >> host: we will have to have some presence in afghanistan in order to have a presence affecting afghanistan if you pull them out of afghanistan then you're not able to operate in ways that are helpful to the pakistani government. >> guest: exactly at the pakistanis have got their own major challenges inside their own countries with the radicals operating there and so to come out of pakistan before you are able to leave behind a relatively stable, and i use the term a lot of because they could still probably go either way but at least we have a simple government in charge that can protect itself internally and externally is to say that pakistan may fall shortly after afghanistan does. ..

>> that is not untypical of what we require. so i want to say another word about carolyn. won the final word to you. there is a quotation you said to be one time from william tecumseh sherman to

grant i knew were rye was you thought of me if i got into a tight place it would come to me, it is a live. i want to say every soldier who was ever served with you or the person who had the privilege of working with you knows if they ever got into a tight place or if they were in trouble you would come for them if a live. thank you for your contributions to this country, a warrior, a patriot and a friend who i could not have a better one. this book, everyone should read this. go get it without hesitation. thank you for being here. >> thank you mr. secretary it is my a pleasure caroline was the wind beneath my

wings you're also a great patriot and a great american and it was an honor to serve >> a remarkable talent, a gifted leader, a genius, overgrown teen-ager, wire, liberal, co nservative. liberal and conservative clothing. conservative and liberal clothing. if flawed man with no decency. will the real bill clinton please stand up. is there a real bill clinton? or are there many?

-- "a complicated man" told the the voice of 169 people who know him. those who have conversation about the fascinating man that "the reader" can eavesdrop i hope it is the most intimate character portrayed debt of our 42nd president i do think it is the most very, as the book included, people who grew up with bill clinton's holocaust went to school with him come investigated him, defended him, reported on him, love him or hate him. everyone from the cousin who took five year-old clinton and on saturdays to former's joint chiefs of staff also tom brokaw and sam donaldson a cabinet members and political consultants, over

two dozen current and former members of congress like a party for a or bob dole or henry hyde even a cameo appearance by larry flint. i spent one solid years interviewing. my wife will tell you, i in my mahan of a strong opinions so she was struck each evening whenever a report on the interviews i would find merit in the view of whatever person i had spoken to that day and one day someone may say impeachment was a travesty hardest the rise to a level of high crimes and misdemeanors us about in the constitution? you cannot argue with that. then some was say lying under oath especially if

done by a president of united states. you have a point*. the process was crystallized when night interviewed dick armey in the morning, the conservative republican former house majority leader and after lunch mehta with the democratic fund-raiser extraordinary and premier friend of bill's. dick armey has contempt for bill clinton and calls him the most successful adolescence i have never known. although terry loves bill clinton and kept saying was a guy he gets out of bed every day and gives the average joe a shot. >> restocking about the same person? yes. and they are both write. bill clinton is remarkably self indulgent and behave like a child at times and testing tasting things as some have left behind years

ago and can be accad and deceitful on the other hand, there's something magnificent and delightful and laudable listen to sam donaldson in what he says he is a man child of one body. the mahan side is so impressive the best and natural politician i have never seen part of the president knew more detail and issues that come to the presidency that i have never seen. you go down the hall and that is two the president than the child side you want to shake him by the neck and say get out of the sandbox parker you cannot play within turns you cannot keep to a schedule or may 2:00 a.m. phone calls to anyone in the world just because you have insomnia. it is the same person. clinton has been on television talking about

obama, tea party, midterm elections, the global initiative, tony blair, tony blair talks about him, during the campaign he received invitations to campaign around the country those but would not be caught dead standing around with the media could not get enough and that the colt named to the most popular president in history you. really? although one man who was fatigue after his presidency because the public was exhausted by him and also gennifer flowers scandal when year before he began and he made a fool of

himself only two years ago. fact bill clinton? what is going on? of the '90s for the last years in which you could say it work to the stock market's sky-high and bin laden was new to few outside our national security and give government was effectively serving through january 2001 when a hobbled president left office, and no one cared. their belly was full and houses was a gold mine in the cold war had been did come american troops were not going on foreign shores and even the majestic home run records of simi sosa and mark mcguire had not been cheapened by our knowledge of chemicals propelling the ball over the fence. the years of bill clinton presidency were a golden age compared to those that follow could filled with war

in hand fear but there is more. because more is what bill clinton is all about. he is more of everything. people have big jobs and expensive educations. there's march but then there is bill clinton he can have a detailed policy at the same time he is reading a book, and a newspaper and doing a crossword puzzle at the end you ask the question that shows not only he has heard every word and understands the subject as well as six for giving the briefing if not better. bill clinton knows more about people and the lowe's being with people that i

have ever met and comes upon thousands upon thousands of friends. he remembers their birth date, calls when their mothers are sick and congratulates on their achievements. one said he is a people prostitute. he needs to have people around him. later cantor became fed trade representative and then he recalls in 1992 after clinton had done the first televised meeting and did have a book time on a local television station as a way to bypass the press that only wanted to talk about his sex life. they campaign discovered he was a a master of the form and it was the taj mahal debate that one hand the election and.

but then describing what happens when the cameras were turned off. >> we went to the station to say you want to buy another half hour put them the something else happened and stood around one hour after words he was engaged in substantive conversation and did not want to leave. and then there are reckless people. bill clinton risks the most powerful office, as he spent his entire year leave seeking to occupy forward 10 instances of, let you know, what with a in turn. his energy thomas often dead diligence, appetite for food, sex and attention empower and good deeds but

this is separating us they in deer him to us in render him more human perhaps the most human human and we know people who generally do what is right the make big mistakes and smart people who do stupid things. we know people who over eat or give into sexual urges bill clinton's the virtues and his flaws are so a saturated despite all the times the have been disappeared and fed to admirer and laughing and listening to him there are few people feather so outrageously human, we are

fascinating. but that only be identified with him that he had the device with us. the famous and the the. in 1992 before the new europe are very speaking at a nightclub and was echoed by the aids activist and he said i feel your pain. it became the instant punchline but it is true. he does. he really does. all over the world from got a tuleh rock to los angeles angeles, know him. but the best reading which is essential to understand this child and with life in the new york area i find it

extremely expensive. and journalists with and also coming from northern rendition says those people were asking genial that as a porcupine. [laughter] also people tied into bill clinton's character they knew him just as billy four the trappings of the presidency or the campaign. they would see him jockeying our way to inline with him at the video store. and max brantley has a daughter about the age of chelsea, and on the same softball team so they would

talking about his sympathy, he says one of the things about charisma it is the people to connect with other people and clinton can do that. quickly and serially and effectively but establishes a physical connection and it looks you in your eye and makes you think you're the only person in the room and quickly find some common foundation, hometown, knows your customer somebody who went to the school you went to or your boss. then the other thing he can do which is a real trick file it away and have nearly total recall in the future. i have known politicians who can do some of these but in a way that is a partner track but clinton really is interested in people and some of it is genuine. he has a deep empathy for

human beings and people can tell. in terms of his interest he is not necessarily cause step he is not a phony. he is in love with you during the moment. also on the source of the clinton magic one attorney from west memphis serving in the state legislature said plebiscite about him? here is what he said. >> what is about clinton? the answer is simple. if you put him on war memorial stadium, after two minutes asking everyone swiss re he or she met with clinton for a flower. clinton listen to what they had to say and convince those will see him learn something that would save the world and clinton is one

hell of a listener. whether real or not cause people to believe he listens to everything they have to say and one hell of a trait. bill clinton has been in the news because of the midterm elections and people are examining the parallels between this year's democratic losses and those of 1994 when the house and senate went republican and kim barack obama do what clinton did it which is just two years and 1995 and 1996 may have been his most impressive hour. the g.o.p. managed to convince like gun-control, texas, health

care, don't forget to that very expensive haircut he got but it also had the idea that somehow to lead us not so much the man from hope but from hollywood and but twos about to turn the tables on the republicans starting right away the right house to of -- adopted a new vocabulary. over and over we use the words radical and extreme interchangeably to discuss the prior day's of the new republican leadership in congress for other republicans obliged for calling for a huge hug cuts of education in vermin and medicaid and especially medicare. here, the white house would have you believe was a band

of radical theologue seeking to knock down the underpinnings of middle-class american life and bill clinton was the only thing standing in their way. the campaign was successful things to the personality of their chief adversary new to gingrich the more people saw the more they like him and in the fall of 1995 the public blamed gingrich and in the bids for reelection tying feat unpopular speaker around an act but in 1995 as three strengths of the first note a. first, where is his well known flexibility? the standard is after two years clinton removed rate but i would say he lowered

his ambitions. gone was the transformational leaders seeking to bring fundamental change to the nation but in his place was a fierce defender of the status quo admired not for things but as aggressive as the campaign was to demonize agenda but although he faltered the first two years he was masterful over the next two when he earned his reputation embargo third is his resilience. in 1994 he had been pronounced it twice and when he failed and in 1992 when no one thought he would survive the twin revelations of gennifer flowers just before the new hampshire

primary, he was written off three times after 1994 and 1998 when monica lewinsky surfaced much of washington did think he would last a week. budget what would al gore think? finreg he didn't answer and in 1991 he parted marc rich levying under a cloud and in 1998 embarrass himself doing heard no favors by yet to hear he is the most popular politician in america. his resilience and his skill and apathy were roast from 1980 to listen to the faye people here is what they say, james carville, the political consultant

campaign strategists to set i have never seen this human being perform like he did that week in new hampshire. it was standing were like an athlete than a political candidates. e event after event, every interview or town hall meeting. even today there seems to be a little bit of magic and pledge clinton has his back against the wall and we know that is probably not true but in many cases he can do it. in new hampshire the end of the primary is a home for the elderly talking about the price of pharmaceuticals where they did not have some money and drugs were not covered and but then he walks up to one woman and hugs her and the press

secretary of the clinton white house, there is a certain shameless as the comes from thinking you should be the most powerful person in the world. he won by connecting with people on a personal and in% level and people will leave to that when push came to shove there was gennifer flowers prepare his approval rating was over 60 percent people have to discuss the behavior buy yet child this approval state high because people thought he was for that. there was people and the check your thinking of reporters, how could he be such a laos and so compelling at the same time? bill clinton accomplished much color presiding over a period of prosperity and put

a stop to the red genocide the also the most. >> to people took part one current republican sen -- republic congressman's a while others contributed to the lion's share of the credit should go to clinton he was the scene. the way he brought about peace in northern ireland was first to get the united states involved. to that point* we have respected the witches of great britain would stay away but that is over so the special relationship was no longer sacrosanct and could take the risk of arguing prime minister john major.

>> second, up north their british try to make peace while focusing on the extremes like keeping out gerry adams and pepo and a fashion but clinton brought the men from the cold and he says if you see your bolster balance and double its as president i will support you. and it worked to prevent culminated in the good friday agreement april 1998. there were setbacks along the way and as the party is proceeding with the implementation there were setbacks recently but basically it has held and bill clinton stock with and it is his character. early on the character issue, the character of clinton that made this

agreement too possible. but first the interesting thing yen in contrast of lesser folks who have worked on the policy never took it personally that i did all of this and now look at me. it was future oriented keeping your eye on the ball and continuing to work on a project and being on the phone meeting with the two bit nothings who would meet on or around st. patrick's day if you took the equivalent would never get a meeting with the president of united states and people who have one seats in the 100 by member assembly representing a country of 1.5 million people the minority member of the delaware legislature who does he meet with? there is well with all personal and five -- involvement buds my father was raised by a irish

immigrants died before he was president of going back when i was first and ball said he would never have the patience to put up with all of these irish people and a drive you crazy. maybe that is what appeals to bill clinton. they can find so many things to argue about and debate every issue and he would pride of that. of this is what would make somebody else say i am fed up. you go back and forth. political leaders talk about the feeling of the new ones but of the personalities and psychologies involves but i guess it will sound bad but who better to understand the most dysfunctional political system and fight in western europe than bill clinton? i praia bad behavior. as wheat and vent their are

three main obstacles but first serving in a quiet after the cold war had ended before the war on terror had begun. bill clinton spoken of his time that he regrets not bending time but would he have risen to such an education? >> four days after people were murdered in oklahoma city giving a wonderful speech at the every net. a speech that comforted thought just the families of the dead but those that help to make sense of the country to help it and fight. buys after the midterm losses in 1994 he did not have to deal with a sustained period of crisis we will never know what he would have done.

second, is that you cannot get around the sec's -- sex. i worked on this book five years and if i met somebody knew what do you do would come up i would as a question and tell them about the book get a follow-up question was what did he see an monica lewinsky in a way or who is the sleeping with no? how could he be so stupid not what they great job of getting rid of the deficit was a really stuck to slobodan milosevic and screw the middle class on nafta or blue is done health care. here at -- purely or not for all of his accomplishments he is stuck with the image of a sex crazed do love to party and cannot resist a sexual entanglements no

matter how inappropriate or dangerous it might be and he had to know when he read -- responded it would be dangerous. first, he could not have expected the 23 year-old intern not to have told a single soul that she was having an affair with the president of united states? but even more coming he had to know what would happen if the affair were exposed because from the beginning from his time on the national stage the opposition had been out to get him from gennifer flowers and the draft. then to his time in office that travel office firings, a suicide of vince foster whitewater land deal, fbi files found where they shouldn't be, campaign finance irregularities during the reelection campaign. all through this time his

opponents have than looking for ways to take him down but had not drawn blood. with him, the lewinsky scandal, he would say sorry, i beg your pardon as if it was they have been firing at him with a wide variety of points but with the lewinsky sandal he said sorry to make you waste your time here is a truckload of live ammunition. doug brinkley, the historian said when you ask people what about john kennedy not ask your country can do for you but what you can do for your country. mr. gorbachev teardown that wall from reagan. clinton will remember i did not have sex without woman or it depends on the meaning

of the word is it is. it is sad and tragic during the last two months of the pittsburgh steelers quarterback roethlisberger was accused of sexual assaults and no charges were brought the pop -- public accusations one member of his entourage was quoted as saying when it used taken to the backroom where mr. roethlisberger was reaching the quarterback was not interested regular sex he was only interested in clinton sex. the 42nd president of united states but also when thinking of the lewinsky scandal think of the 2000 election. for al gore to lose that election a number of circumstances had to occur without any one of

them, george would not have taken office after bill clinton. you had to have the multi page ballot, the butterfly balance, ralph nader, al gore campaigning as display vivid the pride the three different personae he had adopted after each day a political establishment dominating republicans and you had to have a supreme court willing to stop the accounting in florida so they could give the election to the candidate they favored. but at the top of the list has to go to that scandal generated by republicans in congress willing to seize on an episode of private behavior to bring down a man they despise but made possible by that behavior in the first place and they did

not succeed in evicting bill clinton from the warehouse and then between january 1998 but what might have been done in stead over that 80 years that followed. but once again become awash in red ink and was skewered skewered -- skewed more but to do with eric -- hurricane katrina if you were a republican you may find this pleasing and if you're a democrat and believe in the things go clinton believes, this past two disturbia and none of that what happened if the president had to control himself. finally, there is no single

item you can point* to to say here is what he did too better the lives of the fellow citizens of the nation. if this saw a surge of made to speak of a man who was governor of the state and president for eight years as a underachiever but with clinton, he was so talented and had such a phenomenal intellect and her rear skills, shouldn't but his acting of the confidence between two wars and he tried. too ambitious projects, health care which failed because it was the wrong plan that the right time because he did not have the political skills to get it through or hillary clinton was the wrong person

2.but then it came close with a conflict between israel and palestine that dream ended just days before he left the white house when yes, sir. arafat said think you but nothing to to the peace deal clinton had fashioned. we have to be left disappointed in the end to fill potential and this feeling of bill clinton interests day goes back to his tenure as governor. the dean of the political press, said all those years clinton was governor i was the editorial writer and all those years real is interest in pan am saying he has a lot of promise that one more term he will do that right. rico's on to list the improvements and the vast majority of the tough measures but if he was so

smart and so much talent, that was it. he led us to expect miracles but i think that is true of most residents and one of the failures was to complain more if republicans are not taking over progress that we may have a national health care system and have done a great deal more price will say he is a pretty good president may be above fair but if you look back all across day she has so much promise left unfulfilled. many things too many people in order to leave the large country but there endlessly varied and extreme and i found just about every one

of them, just about everything else in this column was solid evidence and the conflicting data often found within the same issue. look at the overdue and worthwhile reform, looked at the reform of welfare. courageous statesmen and the intervention in the face of a hostile congress to save lives in kosovo. look at their refusal to muster support for ground troops who would have saved more lives. looking at the presidency and but the pence phobos for the coming could become much him as opportunist, yes. >> you put in a way?

and also willing to sellout to have millions and rare empathy. and the so become a liberal, conservative check check check one of the smartest people on the planet no doubt. so the question is a complicated man presents the argument over the controversial and con founding goal is compelling american president. thank you. [applause] we have some time for questions.

>> maghreb in arkansas but but my question is one of the more fascinating debate portions in which you allow several voices to talk but the question is whether or not clinton could be considered a supporter of the new deal or whether or not he was in fact, or the argument presented on both sides. i wonder to the scope that it if you felt personally and with a research to gathered do feel clinton

upheld that or the way that? >> did he modernized new deal or liberalism says a it democratic leadership council is the it organization where he honed his centrist strategy. did he modernize the new deal and salvage you're effectively and it? that is a great question and one that is difficult to resolve part of the welfare question puts it into it puts a question on to display in 1994, he proposed and campaigned in 19925 he

proposed in 19942 reform welfare containing $9 billion of additional spending for things like child care and job training. that was 1994 by then health care initiative had gone down in flames. and he had low political capital after congress took over they started to work on their own reform bill for welfare it did not increase spending but large cuts in bridge in the late over $60 billion. eventually he vetoed the republican bill twice but in the summer of 1996 says he was proceeding toward reelection he signed a bill that called for $55 billion of cuts welfare.

did he make then they did reform to resist and that clearly needed it to lower but to provide with what one-person in the book, the man who resigned as a but people will talk of this as the underhanded deal with the republican congress. i can keep my job and you can keep yours. >> i think this is a clinton shock test. was he a brave pragmatist? so that helps with the

assist or four people who had no way to defend them. it is difficult to see that the new deal is very much alive and liberalism has a much left the same problems that obama's has been having and these recent election laws by the democrats indicate the country has moved on. again become it is difficult to concern and liberals would want someone else and interestingly, the former congressman from detroit has very close ties to labor unions being from the trait where the automobile industry said yes, we would have wanted to have somebody else, but there was nobody

else. anyone else? >> [inaudible] more international globetrotter? >> [laughter] well, and he really loves it. he gets up every day wanting to give the average joe a shot at the american dream. i don't know about that begets up every day wanting to learn new things and meet new people. he is lucky and has said he has a certain freedom he did not have like the apparatus of power he had in the white house and does not command armies or the military establishment or the political establishment but the freedom to concentrate on what he once it has certainly developed a reputation as a global

celebrity after he left office, he was a on the cover of "esquire" magazine the most influential person in the world was the headline. he is certainly loving what he is doing now and also has done something that he was not able to do it has a he has been traveling of the globe, and doing good works especially wonderful and what he has done to bring down the cost of aids drugs with a few places in africana and at the same time doing things that do not small bright and giving speeches and helping friends of his deal. there is a deal from cause

expand and an excuse me to the uranium mining business. but that is bill clinton. anyone else? >> went made you write the book can do clinton's have any comments? >> i have been a political junkie since i was nine years old it is hard during presidential years for me to get anything done especially now when you can follow moment by moment on the internet what is happening. my last book was a book of world history and this wind came up, you have to of politics that you have to of but a lot of people enjoy 18 him but to the largest

personality of been a occupants and it is a fascinating man. as far as comments, i only wanted to speak about close presidency retail stocks of him of the president that works throughout the whole book he did not speak directly to me. but i did meet with an aide of his suit looked me over and really checked me out to make sure was not a sleaze merchant and gave the okay and when you send out the interview requests and they will call of bill clinton's office so i did speak and a copy of the book has been

given to him i have not heard from him i hope i do not received a phone call it 2:00 in the morning when he is on the other end of the line turning purple in the face but i am prepared. [laughter] anyone else? okay. thank you for coming out too. [applause]

senate the reason i felt it is important to do a book s.a. because that is what it is on the obama administration is because i think it is extremely important for progress of people, not to create too many solutions because they don't help and to see and quite to the hard headed away, what this nation this of imperialists can to new -- continuity and lighter resembles at home. it is it is different to continue the policies of the pre-if mr. shad just push and cheney but also bush epstein year. so you may have to prepare

them appellants sheet but it broke but it is not a very optimistic account of this administration it is not pleasant like this because when you see what is going on and read a lot of material from domestic policy it is a striking how conservative the administration has been. i know there are restraints and i know we live and then the old liberal point* that despite the crash of 2008, the system and its political leaders have not attempted any serious structural reform return necessary after the crash.

the crash has not gone away, is simply being lots to do and it will worry people and worrying certainly me for progressivity economists, many say it will not work. and so the opportunity for the newly elected president could then to show me that for the economic crash to unlike previous presidents come immobilized hundreds of thousands of young people in this country and brought them to the streets to help them get elected and created the illusion they would do something. yes we can is not a very concrete slogan. [laughter] but it offers some hope or

creates the impression of offering help and so these young people immobilized and some would take place have calmat the balance sheets and discuss briefly our continuing foreign policy. the continuity was symbolized by keith payne got -- they gaze away from the pentagon. by 8e essentially excepting the view that to that by sticking to his plan with the withdrawal from iraq and without bringing about any change at all, by pushing these plans through which hard essentials

simple:trying combat units, building huge military bases and keeping between 50 and 70,000 troops permanently that is not new of the british private in the twenties and thirties went through exactly the same plan and it imploded when there was a revolution in iraq in 1958 and they threw the british out to. it is very likely but a similar thing will have been provoked iran, once again this administration has carried on with the policies because the big pressure for not both on the nuclear

question comes from the isn't willing to preserve their own nuclear monopoly? that is what this is about. the failure of this administration to break with those policies it and then they teach four weeks for obama's champagne and then i saw a young fresh his was my

first sighting of him and this was a guy who would try to please stand a weak demand in many ways and will not push through and domestic for all global policies.

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