will they build the institutions that are necessary to house the generation that follows them? >> right. >> that is the real question for us is that question of institutional building whether it's media, social media, universities, whether it's scholarships, whatever it is, think tanks, what institutions will we build now or will we become scared and paralyzed by this een episode of islamic phone ya we are -- phobia we are experiencing. >> i consider that your turn. >> that was my turn. [laughter] ..le, provided as a

public service. >> "washington journal" continues. host: congressman frank pallone, democrat of new jersey. welcome back to c-span. let's begin with some of the news of the day. house republicans taking control tomorrow and next wednesday. vote on health care bill that the president signed into law . what is the significance? guest: i think it is a huge waste of time. what i understand is they would do an outright repeal, very simple. and, first of all, i think the bill actually accomplished a

lot and a lot of the patient protection provisions have already kicked in. january 1 we had significant ones, about 50% discounts for seniors in medicare with prescription drugs. the fact that health care premiums, 80% have to be used for paying benefits. and when i spoke to people, i think the general feeling is, look, we had this debate, let the bill play out, let provisions again, and see how it works, and if we have to make changes, eventually we will, but i think most americans want us to focus on jobs and the economy and they did not want to repeat this health care debate, which is what the republicans seem determined to do. host: but congressman david dreier is tolerant -- calling it a job, health care bill, putting unfunded mandates on states. guest: again, i did not think it is the case at all. from an economic point of view, i think the health care bill actually improves the economy,

it actually creates jobs because much of the funding goes to help community health centers to hire more health care professionals. beyond that, also over 10 years it reduces the deficit by $100 billion. one of the things i was amazed to see is that the new house rules that come into effect, i guess, tomorrow, if they are passed, would actually exempt that $100 billion deficit reduction from being offset in any way. so i think he is wrong. the health care reform actually helped the economy and it decreases the deficit. host: the deficit and the overall debt continues to grow. this is from the treasury department. we had a $9 trillion national debt in 2007. we went up to $10 trillion in 2009. and we now exceeded $14 trillion. let's put one figure on the table.

we have gone from $13 trillion up to $14 trillion in just seven months. how did that happen? guest: i think part of it has been economy. i think the major part the economic downturn. but a major part is what happened during the republican years under bush when all we really did was basically reduce taxes, primarily for corporations and the wealthy, and that old trickle-down theory did not work. the economy got work, fewer jobs were created. also, the war in iraq and afghanistan were not paid for in any way. when democrats came in four years ago we took the majority, we instituted a very strict pay- go rule and now with the republicans are going to do tomorrow, as i understand, change that dramatically and that thing basically their goal is to go back to the same bush economics which is to be centrally -- essentially to

allow tax cuts to not be paid for. and i think they will start a whole new round, if you will, of trying to help the wealthy and big corporate interests by giving them tax cuts and tax breaks, which is only going to increase the deficit more and not create significant number of jobs. host: if you look at the next two years -- because you have the bush era tax cuts agreed to by president obama and democrats and republicans in congress. that is a lot of the land next two years. taxes will not be going up. where do the cuts come from? where did you bring the number down? guest: the way you will ultimately improve things is to improve the economy. this congress is to focus on jobs. it does not need to rehash the whole health care debate. you can create jobs through a combination of tax cuts and also reduce spending -- new spending

on things like transportation to create jobs, building roads, also helping with mass transit. but what i see on the republican side is just going back to the old bush economics. all they want to do is encourage more tax cuts and not focus and target spending in a way that is actually going to create jobs. we had the pay-go rule and now they have the cut-go rule, saying if you want to spend money on domestic programs, decants offset by closing tax loopholes but you can reduce -- you can't offset it by closing tax loopholes. and the deficit keeps ballooning. i think the way they are going about it is very hypocritical. it's good republican, darrell issa, new chairman of the government oversight -- host: republican darrell issa, new chairman of the government

oversight committee, looking at freddie mac and fannie mae and also wikileaks, his opinion that the justice department did not do enough to go after julian assange. guest: again, same thing. i have no problem with oversight. that is part of congress that irresponsibility but i think spending all this time on oversight on things that did not directly relate to the economy and job creation. i think the lesson of the last election is americans want us to focus as a laser beam on job creation and the economy and spending time on some of these peripheral things, you know, again, i don't -- the public doesn't want congress to waste its time. they want us to zero and exclusively or prioritized the economy. host: democratic leadership, is in the house meeting with reporters. you are in the minority. what is the agenda, what are the priorities and how you get anything done being the minority? guest: i think we would like to

work obviously on a bipartisan basis. that is the most important thing. guest: the lame-duck was actually a very productive time. the tax-cut bill was a way that the president could show he could work with the republicans and the democrats in congress as well. i know that the democrats would really like to see more bipartisanship and working together. again, like a laser beam on the economy and job creation. host: cutting internal budgets -- should members of congress take pay cuts? should staff take a pay cut? guest: my understanding is that we will have a 5% or less budget cut across the board for a house offices. i have not exactly seen what john boehner has proposed, but

that's what i've heard. host: do you like that idea? guest: in these times, it makes sense to see where we can cut. host: congressman fred upton appeared on fox news two days ago. the issue of health care came up. here's more from that exchange this past sunday on fox news. >> as part of our pledge, we said we would bring up a vote to repeal health care early. that will happen before the president's state of the union address. we have 242 republicans. there will be a significant number of fodemocrats, i think, that will join us. when it passed in the house, it only passed by seven votes. if you switch four votes from last march, that bill would not have gone down. we will take the democrats who voted no.

we will take other democrats who probably agree with speaker nancy pelosi's statement that we will pass this and then see what is in it. now we know what is in it. it is unpopular across the country. i do not think we will be that far off from having a vote to override a veto. host: congressman frank pallone, again, more from the republicans. the vote will take place next wednesday. guest: understanding is that they will introduce it tomorrow. this is a huge waste of time, as was said by the commentary with the fred upton. the senate has indicated and certainly the president, that they will not take up this repealed. why are we doing this? the problems that the health- care bill addressed, the lack of coverage for more and more

americans, and premiums, they are not going away. this was an honest attempt to come up with a solution to try to provide more coverage, and to try to stabilize premiums, and to provide patient protections. why would you want to start the new session with an outright repeal? it seems to me that it makes a lot more sense to let this unfolds. the patient protections are gradually unfolding. the coverage rules will gradually take in. on general one, 80% of the premiums have to go towards -- on january 1, it kicks in that 80% of premiums would have to go towards it. this is having a very positive effect. if you are reasonable about it, we will say, let this unfold. have some oversight hearings and propose some changes as we go

along. that is fine. we can work on a bipartisan basis. to start out with this repeal as the first act of the congress, it's a misplaced priority. host: the next cep will be to take different aspects of the health care bill and have a series of votes that could deny funding. guest: again, that is the same thing. before you even let the measures in the reforms kick in and have a positive effect, you try to take away the funding, which is the same as repeal. they never get off the ground. i think that is a huge mistake. if we start to see all the emphasis in the republican congress on repeal of the previous congress did, and oversight in many areas that are not related to jobs, i think the public will be very upset with the republican leadership and what it is trying to do. host: $14 trillion.

that is one of the news items today. that's what we're facing in our national debt. the white house senior economic adviser said that if congress fails to increase the debt limit, it would be catastrophic. we heard from incoming republican michael kelly and michelle bachman saying then they will not vote to increase the debt limit. guest: the tea party is not being practical. the full freight and credit of the united states is at risk. how do we operate as a country if we refuse to honor our debt? frankly, i think it would result in a worldwide depression. i cannot imagine that. again, it is this reckless idea that is basically ideologically based. if you listen to what some of the tea party leaders are saying, it's all ideology.

they're not concerned about the practical impact of what we do here in washington. host: we are talking with new jersey democrat frank pallone. steve is joining us from south carolina on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. the democratic platform is based on making life fair for everyone. the meltdown was due to careless banks and careless investing. another one was the government telling people that everyone deserves homes, regardless of their ability to pay. i cannot believe you would look at the camera and tell everyone that the meltdown was caused all by the republicans and george bush. i cannot believe you can actually look at the camera and say that. now you want to tell everyone that you can make health care fair for everyone. you have some sort of magical bullet. every time you try to make things fair, like giving people welfare, you end up

devastating the family. every time you make things fair or try to make life perfectly fair, it causes tremendous problems. and then you turn around and obfuscate the whole blame and act like george bush repealed glass-steagall. bill clinton did that. host: steve, thank you for the call. we will get a response from congressman frank pallone. guest: you mentioned several things. on the health care initiative, you said -- do i think i have the magical bullet? i do not think i have anything magical. i'm saying let's get away from the ideology. let's talk about the practicality. the fact of the matter is that premiums continue to go up. in many cases, double digits. more and more people do not

have health care coverage. more and more people using emergency rooms. your people see a doctor on a regular basis. we spent years coming up with a measure that would practically address that. you may argue whether or not it is. i'm saying let's have an opportunity to test it and let it play out. if it does not work, we will go back again. what the democrats have tried to do over the last two years in trying to address the economic downturn has been very practically oriented. the republicans said they did not like the stimulus -- the recovery act. it was a practical solution to create jobs and prevent job losses. that is the fact of the matter. most economists say two million jobs to 3 million jobs were saved. maybe you do not like it, but at least we're trying to do

something to make things better and not go back to another deeper recession or depression. let's work together in a practical way, democrats and republicans, to try to find solutions. the tax-cut bill that we passed in the lame duck was an example of one way that we can come together and try to find solutions. not everybody agrees with that. maybe it will not work either. at least we are trying on a bipartisan basis. host: representative frank pallone in his 12th term in the house of representatives. he is also on the house natural resources committee. another critic is gary, who points out -- if anyone needs to tighten their belts, why didn't the democrats reduce overhead expenses when they had control of the purse strings? guest: 40 talking about congress? -- are you talking about

congress? host: the 5% pay cut boehner has proposed. guest: is that is what he is proposing, i think that is something that should be implemented. you know, rather than saying it is a democrats and republicans initiative, but let's just try to save money. host: this your says the republicans never created a health care plan. instead, they destroy, destroy obama's plan. guest: that is all we hear -- let's repeal the obama plan. we have an immediate problem here. more and people do not have coverage. premiums continue to go up.

we have a solution that is in place. it seems to me that if you have this problem, it makes no sense to say let's repeal the solution and try again when we are in the midst of this huge problem. host: janice joins us on the line for democrats. caller: good morning, representative frank pallone. representative, as a member of the grass roots of liberal constituents, i wish to warn the democratic party, but also the others, that prescription drug fix is a measly piece of junk. i'm going to tell you of a z.org.e, eemocrdemocrat

we are willing to written to aid.anies like right te- we're going to rip into some ohio companies and an ohio a kentucky company. the dcc chairman, mr. israel, he voted for medicare part d, which is a slush fund for drug companies. i'm not going to give any money to the democratic party because of that. we are going to go after the companies that give money to conservatives with boycotts. people can go to that address,

www. democratz.org, and they can sign a position that says we want a comprehensive legislation action, and we're going to boycott these companies that give money to conservatives. we know that asking john boehner directly and mitch mcconnell directly -- we know we will get nowhere. we're going to go after their corporate donors. thank you very much. host: we will get a response. congressman pallone? guest: i do not know if you wanted a response, but i will say this. the health care reform was a practical solution. of course we had to get the necessary votes to pass it. some people prefer a single payer system. some people wanted a public auoption.

in terms of the prescription drug benefits, it does go far and ultimately eliminate the donor hole. prescription drugs go up over a certain amount during the year, they do not get any help. last year, 50% discount on brand-name drugs and once they reach that level -- that went into effect on january 1. the drug companies had to agree to the 50% discount. this was an effort to try to plug the donor hole. it will be eliminated over the 10-year life of the bill. i think it makes more sense to continue with this and let it play out rather than talk about trying to come up with some

immediate solutions right now or outright repeal, as the republicans are proposing. twitter page --r twitter fro guest: the president is taking a two-pronged approach. to. -- to the deficit. when he inherited the deficit, we had to have some spending to get the economy moving again and create jobs. if you look at the budgets he has proposed, there have been cuts in a lot of programs. i also think you have to be careful. you do want to address the deficit over the long term. it was also necessary after the recession to make sure we did not starve the federal government and states so much

that the recession got worse and became a depression. we give money back to the states for teachers and police and other purposes. i think a lot of that was necessary. host: david is joining us from new jersey on the line for independents. good morning, david. caller: mr. pallone is a picture of everything that's wrong with congress. first of all, he has been there too long. he has no idea what goes on in the private sector. he set up and watched the pharmaceutical industries, the growth and visioengines of our , get hurt by his colleagues. it is an absolute lie that this health care bill will lower the deficit. as a matter of fact, what they

did -- i am an accountant by background. they took revenues for a longer period of time but did not take cost until four years into the program. he then tells the people -- oh, you should not even try to change this. it's like he is a ruling elite. it's like he has contempt for the people. i got my new health-care statement for this year one month ago. it says right in a statement that because of the health-care bill, your premiums will rise. it is in it in plain english. he keeps going on. he has contempt for the average person. even the way he looks at the camera is like -- don't tell me what to do. i'm a congressman. last part on bipartisanship. he set up and rejected every amendment that came from the

republicans. i have watched this. he does not realize, or maybe he does and he does not care, that the people who watch c-span -- you cannot sit there and give talking points. we know what is going on. every amendment like buying insurance across state lines was rejected by the democrats. now he talks about bipartisanship. there's not a bipartisanship bone in his body. it's really sad hos. host: thank you for the call. guest: david, the pharmaceutical industry worked with the democrats and the republicans in putting together the health care reform. we are very supportive of what we were doing. they had to give back certain things, but they were still supportive of the initiative. reduction in thedictio deficit, we go by the congressional budget office did

it says that it reduces the deficit by $100 billion over 10 years. some people say they should not be the arbiter of these things, but they are under the rule. i know that the health insurance companies are increasing their premiums and blaming the health care reform for the increases, but that is not the case. you simply cannot believe them. who is in favor of the status quo? the only people in favor of the status quo before the reform was the insurance companies, because they continue to raise premiums and exclude people who have pre- existing conditions. they have all kinds of caps on coverage to make it more difficult for people to access care. naturally, they are going to tell you that the health care reform is t bad. they want to continue to increase premiums and put all kinds of limitations on access to care. you simply cannot leave them.

host: if you're listening on c- span radio, we welcome your calls as well. our conversation is with democratic congressman frank pallone, who is part of the 112th congress that will be sworn into office tomorrow. we will have live coverage, beginning with "washington journal" and the ceremony gets underway at noon eastern. dennis joins us from michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. happy new year to the both of you. would like to ask a couple questions to mr. pallone. one, why has health care never been put on a national referendum for the citizens to vote on so you would get a true feeling on what the people actually wanted, an? that point.get to

guest: we have a representative form of government and you elect representatives to make these decisions, rather than have a national referendum on health care or other initiatives. that's a more direct form of democracy, but that's not what we have. you could argue that about any bill. i think we've had two years where we debated this. we've had numerous hearings in committee. my own committee had countless hearings. after two years, we adopted a bill. that's the process. i do not suggest we get rid of the representative process and move towards national referendums on every important issue. host: dennis, we will follow up caller: i concur with what he says and i agree to a point. with things like health care bill, and as explained, it has

taken two years of debate, it is still dragging into a third year. i think that is a protracted this agreement upon the implementation or the people's agreement to such a plan. i just want to know what exactly will be the outcome of this health-care bill. thank you both for your time. guest: dennis, i'm not suggesting that we should continue to debate and have oversight of the health care bill as it takes in -- kicks in. i'm saying that we should not waste our time by repealing it out right and start anew. i think that's where the waste of time is. i think that is where the new republican leadership, instead of doing that, should be focusing on the economy and jobs and not rehashing this whole debate. host: paul ryan is another key

player. anne has this twitter question . guest: one of the things that really bothers me about the rules package that the republicans are going to adopt tomorrow is that the chairman of the budget committee, it gives him the absolute authority to decide on spending and revenue limits to the appropriations committee. it's not at all clear if there will even be a budget resolution. i think that this granted that authority to the chairman of the budget committee under these new rules. i think it is very arbitrary and contrary to the allegis transparency that the republicans talked about during the election. we will see. certainly, that rules package is not a good indication that there will be a lot of input on the

budget, especially when it comes to spending caps and spendingcaps. host: another budget item. the pentagon and wars in iraq and afghanistan. one of our viewers says the health-care debate has been a great distraction for what he calls "six wars of our country is currently engaged in." guest: i would agree with you. if we simply rehashed this health care debate and spent the first few months of this session talking about repeal -- i have said that the major priority is the economy and jobs. also, you are right when you talk about the wars and how we will continue to fight them and how we will continue to pay for them. that all becomes secondary as well. i agree that it is a mistake to focus so much attention on repeal of health care reform. host: representative frank pallone.

judith joins us on the line for independents. good morning. caller: thank you. i want to focus on two separate issues. one is the health care that you have been talking about. the first thing you said -- the job killing health care bill. i think this is a talking point. if you look at the way the health care bill is implemented over the four years, the health- care industry is currently 1/6 of the united states economy. d massivectually enad jobs because there are number -- large numbers of people currently unemployed. as they get into the system and the children all get their proper immunizations, which is

usually covered now, you have the older people who cannot afford health care because the social security and medicare plan only pays 4/5 of their bill -- it is insane. if you look at the single payer option, you actually save a great deal of money because you do not have 9 million different companies all competing with people who tend to be poorly educated on the subject and do not know what they are buying. a perfect example is a motorized wheelchair for many of the handicapped. if you purchase this through a medical supply store, the price is $6,000 a with a with1,500add on for an elevated seats. you can buy the exact same share online for $3,000.

host: we have just a couple of minutes. we will give the congressman a chance to respond. let me clarify. the language of calling a job killing health care act comes from the house rules committee. you can go to the house rules committee website. next wednesday, they will vote on what they call the "job killing health care law." that language is coming from the house gop and in particular the rules committee. your response? guest: i think you're right that the health care bill stimulate the economy and creates jobs. essentially, what is happening is that as more and more people are covered with health insurance and they're able to see a doctor and get primary care, there will be a need for more doctors, more nurses, and more health assistancts. there's no question that it will

create jobs. would a single payer system have squeeze more money out of the system? probably. again, i do not want to rehash the whole issue of whether we should have had a single payer or a public option. i think we passed what we could. it will create jobs. it will cover most americans. let's play it out, rather than move towards immediate repeal. host: ken is joining us from silver spring, md. on the line for democrats with representative frank pallone. caller: good morning. first thing i want to do is commend you. you have a caller from new jersey who called on the independent line. he uses the same terminology like gulag and things like that. i'm not going to repeat it. i consider the republican party and the tea party the american

taliban and al-qaeda. keep doing what you're doing inside the repeal. -- and fight the repeal. you have a firm grasp. one quick thing i want to say. the stimulus bill, you know, you had a lot of republicans against it. no one will say now that general motors was saved. when you look at all the republicans that have bmw -- it's no surprise why they did not mind the american manufacturers to go under. my call is to mail in support you and the democratic party, and also the people -- is to mainly supported you and the democratic party, and also the people. it's not going to go anywhere. thank you. guest: thank you. i appreciate what you said.

i think the one large point you've made is that it is easy to be the monday morning quarterback, but the bottom line is that we had a recession two years ago. with the recovery act and the tarp -- a lot of people do not like the fact that we saved the banks and gm. i think those things had to be done. it's easy to now say that you should not have done it or there was a better way to do it. the reality is that we accomplished those goals. i think the same thing will be true about health care reform. a lot of the patient protections have already kicked in. you will see that premiums will stabilize once this goes fully into effect in 2014. most americans will be covered. host: carl allen has this point of view. he is from new mexico. "how about giving republicans a chance before you start beating the hell out of them?"

guest: i am not suggesting that the house subcommittee that i chaired should not have hearings and look at what is happening to health care reform. that is the job of congress. to just say that we are going to repeal this and start over again, it's a waste of time. practically speaking, as we said earlier, the senate is not one to pass a repeal. the president has opposed a repeal. why are we doing that? why is that the cornerstone of the republican leadership's plan over the next few weeks? host: our last call is howard on the line for republicans. good morning. caller: good morning. it's nice to see you. if anyone wants to know what a professional left politician is, just open your eyes. there he is. i have a question about nancy pelosi's statement.

the idea of getting into the weeds about what is right and what is wrong with this medicare bill, or obamacare bill, it is difficult. it is one-sided. as we going to the congress, it will be quite interesting to have an opposite view sitting across the table now. i know there are restraints on time, but we have a lot of congressman walking around the halls at 7:00 a.m. i think we can have a group meeting. to get back to nancy pelosi's statement, when she said we have to pass it so we know what is in it. thank you. have a good day. host: thank you for calling.

you have a number of new members tomorrow morning on c-span's "washington journal." representative frank pallone, your thoughts? guest: i know there is this notion that somehow the speaker or members did not read the bill. let me assure you nancy pelosi knows everything that's in that health care bill. she went through it line by line before the democratic caucus. we spent a lot of time and we know what is in the bill. that is why we support the bill. we think it will go far toward stabilizing premiums and covering all americans. let me just make this final plea on health care reform. everythingust repeal that was done over the last two years. let's work on a bipartisan basis to try to address the country's problems, create jobs, and improve the economy. thank you. host: we began the conversation

this morning talking about the situation in states. across the country, $140 million in potential budget debts. david has this comment. that is one argument we're going to hear in the new congress. guest: one of the best manifestations of this is the tea party constitutional amendment that says that 2/3 of the state legislatures would be able to veto any federal law or any federal regulation. i think that we need a strong federal government. and, you know, the notion that it is somehow unconstitutional for the federal government to deal with education, transportation, or energy -- i do not think the founding fathers had in mind. they expected a strong

government. the only way we became a strong nation, in my view, is because we have a strong government. i do not want to take away from the powers of the state. one of the things that the federal government should do, and we try to do in the last congress, was to help out the states. we spend money -- we sent money back to the states so they should not -- so it would not have to lay off teachers and police. that was done under the democratic congress. i do not know if the republicans want to do that. we need to help the states as well. maybe we can come up with some bipartisan solutions. host: you have been in the majority. you will now be back in the minority. for you personally, what is the biggest change? guest: the biggest change is that i will not be chair of the health subcommittee anymore. when we were in the majority, and if i can use my health subcommittee that i chaired as an example, we were quite a bit

with the republicans. i would say 80% or 90% of the stuff we passed was on a bipartisan basis. the new chairman, joe pit