equity funds can help. they are not the problem, they can be part of the solution. some say financial engineering led to the cry -- crisis, i say it's a way out. >> i say both are true. bad engineering that led to the financial crisis. greed got out of hand. so we don't have to agree. but we are not disagreeable. >> thank you both very much. :

i want to give a special thanks to the library to staff your, where he did so much of my research and writing on this book as well as many other books. and of course there is a special resonance, and study pointed out, and given a talk about george washington in the library where he borrowed books would he was president, during his first term when new york was briefly capital of the new united dates under the constitution. so it's a wonderful honor and a wonderful occasion. let me just begin by saying that as betty pointed out there've been 8000 biographies at least over 200 years, historians have

been pouring over washington's papers, his diaries and searching mostly for some lengths of the interim man, the real flesh and blood, human being behind the books in the marble monuments and bronze statues. and what it's like to suggest to you tonight is another important window on his thighs, honest personality, on his passions is the collection of maps and alice says that he kept in mount vernon were found in his library upon his death. now, washington, as betty suggested had a deep and abiding connection to land. they're important as a surveyor when 16, mapping and measuring the frontier and of course as a military man during the french and indian war and there he brought his surveying skills to bear again. she always had his eye out as a speculator for the good pieces of land, even as he was on military campaign and then retiring early to become a

farmer on his plantation amount earning. any deep connection is a farmer to the cycles of the weather in the land, quality of the soil in the rotation of crops. it's fascinating to read his intimate study of these things. and then of course, moving on to the american revolution and the postwar. and the transformations that we see in his views after independence and the struggle oath -- during both administrations, his two terms to keep this new young country together is the european powers at the various borders were struggling to tear it apart. and then of course back to the land again in retirement is firmer washington. so i'd like to do is take ethers inside tonight, show you some of the maps have been incorporated into the book. and i think the maps give us a couple of things good one, it places us at the scene of the most manic events of

washington's life and give us a view. we're really looking over his shoulders because these are the maps that he used, that he owned or drew himself. and beyond that, i think you'll see is to go through this life, we also get a glimpse of the heroic transformation of washington from young, striving, virginia gentleman, very ambitious, very inquisitive in the 1740s and 50s, 60s and then the statement that emerges through the study of maps to politics, to experience in the 1780s and 90s as we see a visionary statesman and founding father. so let me begin with a map of virginia appropriately enough, and not in some ways tells the story of washington's life from cradle to grave. and in the book, one of the nice things we've been able to do with the book and i want to say thanks to the art erect there in

the designer of the book who created such a beautiful object. we've also been able to show close-ups of these maps. these are large maps. and so even not 10 by 13 formats splashed over two pages, it's hard to see some of the detail. but we have dozens of detailed views, looking up where washington was born and grew up. and of course this is the country that he returned to indiscreet victory tour town. those with kind of comes full circle in this map by frey and jefferson from the manuscripts from 1751, first edition from 1753, right at the beginning of washington's military career. there's actually a great moment where joshua fry, who treat the map is bright enough to meet washington on the frontier and assumed command of the regiment. so there's this wonderful collision of maps and life.

and here's a detailed view that gives you i think if you're one of the most important forces in the life of young washington and that is called the northern neck proprietary, a piece of land granted by the king to a single man, lord thomas fairfax, a piece of land, more than 5000 acres covered taking up most of northern virginia. and what that meant for someone like george washington and in fact, let's try the pointer here, this piece of land between the potomac and the rappahannock rivers starts out as they will neck of land, but then it expands as they follow the course of the potomac river to its source in the mountains and then it comes down along this line and says the lord fairfax boundary closed up at a rapid

end to the rappahannock spirits of this huge piece of land here became an obstacle and an opportunity, in a way, for young washington because of course his father died when he was 11, his half-brother lawrence stood to inherit the lion share of the property in washington seemed to be like many second son in colonial america, destined to seek his fortune in the last. and so, fairfax in fact was a great connection for young washington, gave him his first job as a surveyor and created social connections for him as lawrence was married into the fairfax family, which you can see on the map too, i shown a close-up the fairfax estate at belfour was right across the creek from what became a vernon. so washington was taken there many times and became part of the social circle with his brother. and so that lead to advancement, two jobs and ultimately to

seeking not just a job serving small parcels here you're the seaboard, that striking on his own and looking to get the on the mountain. the map of course sometimes is not clear these are actually mountains. these little individual peaks that are john one by one. but you can see the alleghenies and appellations create a serious boundary here at washington would struggle really for the rest of his life to try to create connections between the auto country in the great lakes be at the potomac river to bring the wealth in the trade of the west through virginia to the eastern seaboard and of course to the atlantic in europe. and so that quest really begins with the sense of being supported here, but opportunity down the mountains. and as we get into washington's

early military career, 1753, 54, we see his surveying skills coming into play. here is a map that he drew on his first mission. his first military assignment ever, when he went on behalf of the virginia governor to challenge the french and the ohio valley. he went out to the forks of the ohio, which is today's pittsburgh, pennsylvania. and you can see how he drew the potomac allegheny mountains here and he went through the snow and rain and the cold in late fall and made his way all the way up to the french board or the southern shore of lake erie. you can see it a little bit better in this map, some of the wonderful drawings and even by modern standards if you look at the disk is come in this turns out to be a very accurate map, so his training paid off. and it also shows washington's initiative. there was nothing in his military commission that said bring back a map, only that he was to deliver a letter,

ultimatum and bring back an answer. washington seems perhaps like he was suited to life on the frontier into going out and making maps for the land. and so, what we see is this young man coming back. he's 21 years old, comes back with a journal of his adventure in a successful report and a map. into him, that was the way of thinking about the world and the way of representing it. and he knew as an ambitious young man that it was a kind of currency, that maps for knowledge and knowledge is power and this is about power politics on the frontier. and so that map was included by the governor and a packet that was sent to london, to the board of trade. and really this is the beginning of washington's fame, i've been on the seaboard in america and published in europe as well, his diaries to show this tenacious young men going out and braving the elements and being a patriot

at the same time. now, a couple of years later, in 1755, lewis athens publishers an important map of the middle british colonies and if a document that really becomes a nature reference tool for washington for much of his life into the 1790s -- or 1780s and 90s. and there's many things you can point to in this map. i'll just pick one, which is that it gives a lot of information about the indian nations that washington had to negotiate with touring has time on the frontier during the french and indian war. for example, from the mohawk river all the way down to lake erie, we see the territory of the six nations, the iroquois confederacy that played such a powerful role in mediating

between the british and french empires, kind of an empire of its own in north america. but the territories of the mohawks and endowed us, you guys, senecas, are all not so clearly. and this is kind of a crash course for washington in the very complex alliances, shifting alliances and bewildering relationships you would have to contend with as he tried to woo the indians away from their bonds to the french and into the british pulled. and here's a close-up of the same map, which gives us the same fear that they showed hsu and washington's giants. we're looking at essentially the monongahela can allegheny come together to form the ohio. again, it gives you a sense of a

published map in contrast to washington's manuscript map of a copperplate map with hand coloring that's been printed in london and one of the great maps now, another important nations that washington went on during and i want to show you a little bit about that campaign, using a map of pennsylvania that actually dates from 1770. it's really a later map. washington on this map, though and it's a great tool for looking at some of the details of that campaign, which again played a big role in washington's life. if we go down to the very lower left corner of the map, we can start to trace some of the

and one of the interesting details from this map that the hills, where they thought they might be ambushed, crossed the river and then we crossed a right before they collided with the french and indian column that tore them to shreds. and one of the most harrowing passages from washington's diaries is that night when after the battle, a battle in which his commander braddock had been mortally wounded at washington had despite suffering from weakness and dysentery and fever had charged around the battlefield, taking bullets

through his coat, remained unscathed and manage to get radek onto a cart and get him across that second forward in the river to create some distance between the indians they thought would be pursuing them. and then braddock, assigning washington to go back and get help from a column in the rear, we can see on the map while washington had to do, which was to get all the way from a peer, retrace their steps through the dark wilderness that made him get down here to denver's camp, which is also marked with a second column had been bringing up the rear with all the supplies and likens. and washington describes trying to make it worse by gregg, still suffering from dysentery. there's no light whatsoever. his guys are literally groping on the ground for the past and the groans of the wounded are coming out of the trees on both sides of the path.

and it's literally like something out of dante's inferno and washington just persevered and made it back and brought help and ultimately buried braddock in the road in how the wagons run over his grave to hide it from the enemy who might take it out and tear it apart. now it's also a final note on that product campaign, when washington got onto radek's staff in the first place, he was very disgruntled with the treatment of american so-called provincial officers in the british command structure because they could be outranked by any british captain, even though he was a kernel by then. so he quit and that i'm going to volunteer. i won't take your money. i'm going to volunteer for braddock's staff. what did he do? feature a map of the frontier, folded it up and put it in a letter to robert born and grew

shoot himself and got his job as an aid on braddock staff. so this is a man who had thought through maps. now, washington has been mentioned, he retired in 1758 for mac of military duty, went to mount vernon to establish himself, which he had inherited after lawrence's premature death accorsi also got married and got a lot dead to be the virginia house of burgesses and settle down to civilian life and aspired to accumulate all the trappings of a first grand virginia gentleman. in the process, of course, he became very unhappy as all americans dead with the mercantile is system that the economies were trapped in, was constantly in debt, acquiring all the refinery were on a fight.

washington was of revolutionary, but one feature in the continental movement come he never looked back. he and the virginia governor, lord dunmore threatened to invalidate all of his claims to western lands that he had acquired as bounty for his military service come along with this other fellow veterans. dunmore hopes that he could cry washington away from the movement and of course it didn't work. and washington attended as a delegate to the continental congress and of course in july -- early july 1775, as commander-in-chief of the new continental army, he was on his way, arrived in boston and cambridge to besiege the british emboss then. and here's a map that was in washington's collection called the seat of war in new england, a beautiful map that uses not only cartography, but some

wonderful drawings to dramatize the opening phases of the revolutionary war. here we can see -- of course, after lexington and concord in april of 1775, with the battle at rucker hill. you can see charlestown in flames with and yellow, all the formations of men. and of course i was just 17. arriving in a column. in fact come you can see there's columns coming down from new hampshire, up from connecticut, all converging in this great congregation of citizen soldiers to besiege the british and hear just one detail you can see the march of general washington with the virginia -- virginia and, has riflemen in the new york rangers, you've got a really

enchanting map. now once he derives, washington had to size up the situation. in this map in boston harbor get some tremendous detail of the situation. and i think perhaps like myself and most americans think of the siege of boston is a fairly static affair, that washington was encamped in cambridge, with americans pinched off the neck of the boston peninsula at roxbury and the charlestown peninsula at the next year and that they said included each other for 11 months, which is what happened. if you have washington's maps in hand some other details emerged of playing out this drama on a much larger canvas. for one thing, he was sending his fledgling navy, the

privateers all the way up to canada to the mouth of the st. lawrence and the have-nots is the st. lawrence riverto try to intercept ships coming from washington to resupply the besiege washington under general howe. washington was also using a fleet of oil boats, small craft that were plying the waters in boston harbor and sending them to burn the lighthouse, like in ways to disrupt the berger stealing sheep, birmingham a small islands in order to starve them. and the robust of course with their shallow draft could escape onto the shoals, onto the slot to get away from the deep british ships. so what the map in hand, we can to washington really creatively using the topography to its

advantage and of course the dorchester heights would be the key to ending the siege, placing the guns from ticonderoga here on this command is thought that would renter boston untenable for the british. and again, the sense of washington spontaneously using maps. this is his own drawing of the boston area in case anyone would be confused, it was water, water, makes a great to show with boston and a grade for cambridge and this he folded up and put in a letter to his brother, john augustine, saint had just arrived in here's the dilemma we have. we've got the british in the center, able to move in any direction and we have to surround them and be ready to jump and cover every point of the circle.

so again, a man who is really thinking on paper. now one of the expeditions that washington launched from boston, from cambridge during the siege was benedict arnold's march to québec for the main wilderness with a thousand troops. and the wonderful thing about study in washington through his maps is that we can see events that meant a great deal to him, but even in places where he never stepped foot personally. the whole canadian campaign, which was launched initially by congress from ticonderoga and montréal and quebec and supplemented by washington sending arnold is occupied a great deal of washington's energy and passion dream this time. you can see how key concern for the welfare u.s. for these men as they made their way in the late fall into the canadian winter the anxiety and attention

he paid to getting letters. and of course it is great irony and we know arnold's ultimate fate. and here is washington clearly seen arnold of that kind of younger alter ego, perhaps seen him in some ways like himself on the braddock expedition, this kind of quixotic implosive march through the wilderness to strike the enemy first and all odds and all hunters. and arnold really is just a phenomenal soldier. he doesn't stop. he gets not done any keeps going and his men are starved in ragged, but they get to -- they cannot -- among river and they manage to get across under the nose of british ships. this map, which washington owned an attractive carefully as they could to receive an expense account entries of which maps

washington was buying so i was able to pinpoint very carefully what map she would be looking not. and this was definitely even a map from 1759, from the french indian war, this would've been the most current intelligence that he would have come of the most detailed map to follow arnold's progress, even though it depicts a battle from 1759, which was actually between the french who were then holding québec and the producer took it from them. but here now is the british and arnold was trying to dislodge them and we can see how he follows her notes every step and even how he followed the same strategy that the british had, moving his men to the same landing place. you can even see the little path going up the palisade here come the same one that general william howe, then a colonel, had used to bring his men up to

the heights of abraham. unfortunately for arnold he made it up your coming but he couldn't wear the british out that the french had come out to fight the british and that of course had been their mistake. so the canadian campaign collapsed and american forces fell back towards ticonderoga. of course i'm not sober of 76, arnold fought the famous battle of alcor island, which was a great turning point. steve jobs held off they british penetration into new york state for an additional year. or perhaps save the american cause. and so again, the campaign while on its face was a disaster, it served a purpose. and that's another aspect of washington's character that comes through, is the ability to look for benefits in the situation, no matter how gloomy and graham king seen. he was able to find the positive

side and to keep moving forward. and of course the british had been sought at the northern order by weather, but arnold and the need to return to go back and wait for campaigning season with warmer weather. but ultimately their goal would be to come down via lake champlain, the whiskey river, lake george in the hudson institute godsend and use it as a divider to break the colonies, isolate new england over here from new york and all the southern colonies to the south and west. and this is a map to washington owned. it's from 1775 by john monster solar, british engineer, chief british engineer. i just want to notice he may be noticing a lot of these maps are printed in london, including the bar map i showed you a boston

harbor. so the question is how does washington get a hold of these maps in the middle of the war and not to do bar map out every british gun installation mark l. to turn that washington had the french connection. the british map publishers and dealers didn't seize their trade with the french. seasonal countries were at war ultimately, the map trade was growing on furiously in all these months are coming in. it's pretty well documented that these are coming in via french sources to american commanders. searchers again a great sort of military and not in the sense that mantra sort could see his focus is on the topography and this is a great map for washington because these are the areas where washington is actually going to spend most of its time during the revolution. here's a close-up or you can see

the hub in highlands, this great natural fortress, where the river cuts the zigzag through the rock and of course westpoint being appear in other american force built to block the british advance and conquest of the river. in central new jersey, moorestown, this is where washington won't camp for most of the war and particularly after the british capture of new york city in 1776 and their occupation of new york for the next seven years. washington will play a psychological war of keeping pressure on the british by using these natural elevations for defensive purposes and really keep the british pending new york and throwing them off at yorktown, certainly at saratoga and again at yorktown is a great turning point where they didn't move their troops and ships out of new york to help their commanders in the field.

here's just another shot that gives you a sense of the wonderful detail the you can find on these maps. now another important theater of the revolution was the war in the south, where washington was not able to go during the war, but traveled after as president to go and visit some of those title fields, where he had been conducting operations by remote, by letter and by studying maps. just to give you an example, general greene's famous campaign and the carolinas, washington followed as closely as he could with letters taken weeks and months to be exchanged. but we see him talking about specifics of the campaign with green and his letters and clearly following it on this map. the old map of the carolinas, which dated from the 17th of use, but again by the 1770s, still remains the authoritative

in this detailed map of the region. and just a couple of things about this map, it shows the various layers of settlement in the topography of the seaboard, the tidewater area, and the fault line of the rivers in the piedmont in between and in a mountainous area of the appellations here. and of course the topography and the war in the south would be tremendous important because different groups, depending on where they live at different levels of loyalty or allegiance the crown and both sides were calculate depth of tried toiment as they navigate what generated into and civil war between loyalists and whigs. but i give you one detail shot here from the inside on the

lower right. the harbor of charleston, a couple of important campaigns here were in 1776 the british tried to take it in the run-up to the battle for new york, sent to sleep down here. and washington and his letters gets the news of the british defeat and they were repulsed. the state came in through this channel here next to sullivan island and the americans have a palmetto blog and they bombarded the british who ran aground on the show and were sitting ducks for the american cannon fire. injuried washington's letters as he is clearly looking at a map in the "glee" that you see coming off the page as victor unfolds is really tremendous and then equally emotional with the sad loss of charleston to the british and may have 1780, when sir hamlin quickly came down and

not only capture the harbor, but moved overland to cut off the neck of the peninsula that captured the city, a tremendous blow, the worst american loss of the word and washington follows that with equal intensity. network coming to the wind do not and the winding down of the revolutionary war in 1783. i'm showing you here the mcmurray map, which shows the united states according to the definitive treaty of peace, the treaty of paris in 1783. and this is a map which probably for the first time shows the united states as a single political entity with no internal divisions. and not i'm sure was a site that was dear to washington's eyes when he looked at this map and a phenomenon that he would fight for in the coming years to

establish the constitution and to really hold the country together. and what's fascinating is to watch washington's evolution in these waning months of the war as he is waiting for the news of the definitive treaty, which of course takes months to cross the ocean. but in late 1783, he's obviously getting a bit stir crazy around new york and the british are still holding onto the city and he decides to go on a trip for a few weeks. goes up to explore the frontiers of new york that he has been in person yet, only through maps. he goes up as far as lake champlain to the north and then comes back towards connect to be and then out along the mohawk towards lake ontario. and when he gets back on he writes a letter to french colleague and he says, i had a kind of revelation during this

trip. after looking at maps and written reports and these of course were his lifelong habit, he said, for the first time, i realized that the family and waterways, the great rivers that this country is blessed with are going to be a political asset for us. these are going to be the tires that bind the nation together. and here's a man that starts out his life going after every parcel of land he can find, trying to build a waterway between the west and his native virginia from admitting all the while it's going to increase the value of his land. it is really a serious speculator. but here we see him above image the great state and that he became and seem to not. as he put it arising and tired in the new world. now is the time to cut this the

arts he is coming to clear the rivers and improve them, to make them the commercial arteries that will create a bond of mutual interest between the immigrants, our newest citizens who are flowing out to the westward mississippi and the great cities on the seaboard. so if we look at this map in a little more detail, we can see some of what captured his imagination. here's the ohio river to come berlin to tennessee. these are the great commercial arteries of this region and of course also the mohawk in the area where those yorkers were going to beat the virginians by opening the erie canal before the potomac project never came to fruition. and again, the maps and a sense of geography were constantly and play as he tried to keep the

country together against external threats. now the british were hanging on at the northern border of the country. now this blind that you see, this brown line because of the center of the lakes indicates a new border the united states. and there were seven military posts that were clearly inside the american terrain on american soil. yet the british refused to give them up, even as promised during the treaty. they would keep them until 1796 and they were a thorn in the side of washington for years. and what do not, the british kept then and use them as depots for arms for supplying the native americans, chinese, wyandotte, et cetera of the northwest tribes to foment as much trouble and bloodshed is a good want the borders. suppose a challenge a challenge to the north.

and if we look, this is a john roxane of north america and washington's collection and here's a detail from it, showing you the old southwest along the mississippi here and what was called yazoo strip between the chattahoochee in the yazoo river, which feeds into the mississippi. in this area was where the spanish were now controlled west florida, were fomenting similar troubled by the army and the cherokees, the chickasaw's, chart cause and pitting them against the georgia -- settlers from georgia who were trying to move last and coming into conflict. and so, washington had a real fire to deal with down here, too. and what he managed to do in

this case was to stay out of four, was he invited her to give the crew chiefs to come to new york and wine and dine them and gave them a good treaty. and part of his genius was to be able to balance all of these forces and for the most part avoid armed conflict, which he knew too well. unfortunately, you know, aside from slavery, the other great tragedy of american history was the removal of the native tribes from the last. and washington tried his best to abide by the new treaties that were being made. he wanted his administration to be honorable and abiding by those treaties that were made with the western indians. at the same time, when you read deeply into his writing his letters to congress, as he advised them before he became president, advising on the

formation of new stakes, he basically said, you know, it's a tough game here. we told them not to side with the british. they picked the wrong side. were going to be as accommodating as possible, but ultimately one way or another were going to push them off the land. we are going to expand. and this map by thomas hutchins, from 1778, a new map of the western part of several states was really washington's -- his bible for westward expansion in this post-revolutionary war. it shows tremendous to be about to read his letters and papers and see them talking about specific cartographers. well, lewis evans did a great map in the 1750s, but now it's been superseded by this one. you could see him studying the map in great detail, even picking out this kind of crossroads or cross rivers, the strategic point which connects

the links -- the great lakes to the mississippi via the wabash and saying this is where we have to strike the indians and capture the miami village in order to really hold this area for ourselves. and if we look at the map from just a couple of years after the fact from 1796, abraham bradley, we can see the three military campaigns that washington launched in the northwest during his presidency and follow, you know, just back up to the city of cincinnati is a mere 14 fourths were built to protect soldiers that they moved up to capture the miami village. and of course fallen timbers in 1794, anthony wayne of course is now fort wayne indiana today. anthony wayne concord to miami's

and really destroy the alliance with the british at the battle of fallen timbers and 1794, which is the unfolded on this matter. so washington needed maps in his presidency and then when he retired, he would need them to resolve his estate. and this map, his own survey but it's almost a thousand acre state and mount vernon was actually drawn in 1793, while he was in office. but it was an attempt to break up his farm by renting out, by keeping the manor house from here, where the mansion is, but renting out two capable farmers the various component farms. in his plan was to free his slaves. he had undergone a transformation in his views from being a run-of-the-mill slaveowner, with the worst attitudes in his younger days to

a poor and the homeless dictation. but he had a problem. his peers in virginia were still slaveholders and would've been shot and felt betrayed if you suddenly freed his slaves while he was in office. and so come you struggle to develop a secret plan where he could parcel out the mount vernon, freed the slaves and have been hired as free laborers on these estates. and he couldn't get past affairs, his wife's family to agree. he didn't want to rock the boat while he was trying to get the jay treaty approved, which might have hurt his planters would repay debts to the british, complicated political pressures. story short, he didn't freedom while he was in office. tantalizing to think what might have been the aside of the first figure in the land, freeing his slaves while in office. but he did the next best thing, which was upon his death to free

them in huntsville. and so, i'm going to conclude that with these two transformations really, one daughter and one in her come in spent in the liberator. washington was cannot did to the land, who in his will went back to be in the surveyor, to mark out the stones of the trees in bringing his life full circle as he prepared to move on. the thank you. i'll take some questions. [applause] >> that was a wonderful presentation. as i was listening to you talking about this, i was wondering what the conferences with your editors were like when you are planning mass. and they would say book of maps?

first of all, how are you going to sell this book of maps that cost a lot of money. it's got to be big to start with. and what went on. you honestly devoted enormous amount of time and effort in this. what are the conversations i can planning a book like this? >> that's a great question. the initial inspiration was an article in the heel alumni magazine because i came across in 2007, which was highlighting the treasures of the sterling library map collection at el. and they have an alice of 43 sheets that washington owned that depicts most of eastern north america. an editor saw the article as well. we talked. he said what could have hurt? take a trip up to new haven and take a look. and of course the experience of opening an alice that belonged to george washington is incomparable. that is unfolding the amount and

almost breathing the same air as washington in effect, that feeling of really being transported into his time and his worldview was just very exciting and i came back and wrote a proposal. and initially, as many books do, they evolve. the book started out to be something relatively short, a few 5000 word essays on a selection of the maps. but as i began writing it, got people into the project, the chapters were just not stay sure. the maps had so much to tell them that's really how i approach to was to spend several just looking at the maps on the wall, putting up copies on a big old tin board and arranging them, grouping them common theme what was information in them and then go into the papers and seen what jumped out. in terms of cost and things like

that, you know, since american flags are now made in china, i can take it was printed in hong kong and that's what it is a very reasonable price tag for what it is, a book of 304 pages, large format with, you know, some 200 map views in color. so i have to just say i have a great relationship with george gibson who is a visionary publisher. he was willing to put the resources into what he believed would be an exciting adventure. >> was there anything you were surprised you didn't find come either from his letters that you didn't find in the maps or something from the maps that you didn't find reflected in his letters? >> something about his life for -- >> his life he was surprised you

didn't see. >> yeah, yeah, i mean, obviously the thing i wanted most in some ways was to be able to pinpoint more accurately, you know, when he had made certain decisions are binding in that certain maps. i was able by inference, for example, he had to do things like i was able to find a receipt video., the general topography of north america, the famous alice at the time and compare the contents to the maps that yell and see that there was an overlap in their buy-in for the he had found at least prints of the same map as a certain time period so that was one of the challenges. but other things that i was looking for, you know, i would've loved to have had some of the maps that were written about in his letters so i knew

they existed at some point would've been lost to history, radix aid and other mentions along the way that would've been exciting to find. >> the holy grail of maps you didn't find. >> the holy grail? >> i think some of those early maps of the wilderness would've been great great to find. >> i have a question about a map that thomas jefferson and from the south of grant. he was very interested in a canal or the potomac and the can now. did you find anything that washington may have dawned? >> i did find letters between jefferson and washington right after the war in 1784, where

jeff and actually took the initiative to write to washington and get them energized again about the potomac project. washington remember was coming back to mount vernon and his papers had the nerve to get them out of the way of the enemy. and he was a man who wanted to get his personal life back in order and said he was distracted from these bigger public projects. it's clear the letter from jefferson gets them fired up again about the potomac project. they talk in great detail about how are you going to get kids from the southern shore of lake erie of the cuyahoga river to the beavercreek then how do we avoid pennsylvania and all the politics and get it through maryland into virginia. let's look at a southern -- i think the key map for that again is the hutchins, which shows all

of that detail analysis available to me. i didn't find any manuscript maps. >> you didn't find any letters from jefferson to washington from paris at all? >> i don't think these are from paris, but i have to take a look. >> that's when he sent them out. he obviously about the map in paris and had someone blow it up for my wood gatherer. it is a wonderful letter. >> i'm going to have to take a look at that. thank you. >> you mentioned that there was a treasure trove of maps at the sterling library at yale. had others been purchased by people and scattered about in hard to get to? >> yeah. the question is would have been rest the maps? one of the things i did was to call mount vernon, talk to the labor in there. a lot of material ended up at

the bus and atheneum. and what happened i think was that, you know, as one scholar has pointed out very interestingly in the wake of the civil war, virginia's first families were on hard times. and so, the yellow outlets, for example call it handed down through succession of nephews and kept in the family of fun as possible. but in 1876, at the centennial exposition in philadelphia there is a big auction and a lot of washington's possessions went there. and so they have been scattered, but there are groupings that are being kept together. this map now resides at the huntington library, santa barbara, california. so it's a bit of a treasure hunt to pull them all together.

>> do you recall any of the maps for any maps from the dismal swamp area because he was -- >> yeah, he was an investor in the dismal swamp company, which i guess would be north carolina today. i did see them -- you know, again, there are certain strands of the story but i just didn't have the time to pursue. without certainly a fascinating aspect in the shows that he was engaged all kinds of commercial enterprises, but again connected with the land. >> what was the process as you just mentioned of the huntington library, who took the picture? who made it into a printable map for you? >> the process of getting an

image like this? >> yeah. >> well, the maps, some of them could be scanned, but many are photographed on a flatbed, a huge camera takes up a small room and it has a bed with in-laws that vacuumed the map flat onto a bed in that shot from overhead but the camera. and i can tell you, you know, one of the reasons i was saying thanks to the whole team that produced this book is that we worked closely with theo, with our direct your walker bloomsbury and some of the pictures you was good enough to reshoot them as readjusted. and they adjusted the color and the focus. it's very minute increments of adjustment that's been made on these cameras that can throw off the focus, the color, everything. and some of these maps we've asked them to shoot not only the whole map and parcel it up

ourselves, but they shot close-ups of various were interested in so that the focus would be -- the resolution would be high enough to print those very close up views. so it was an arduous process. >> you obviously couldn't move that flatbed around the country? >> yeah, yeah, maps we didn't get from yell you got permission from libraries to use them. but everything of course is electronic now. you know, another just an aspect of the project is when i first looked at the maps, they were about to be restored. so we were very fortunate that i was able to write the book using pre-conservation images of the maps, but the timing was such by the time i finished the reigning the paper conservator up there at yale had done her work

commissary dive, and managed to create this beautifully restored maps that were then re-photograph for the book. >> i was -- i was fortunate enough to study some of the writings of george washington. he did take this every night. he kept a diary of his survey in that one area. and one night around the fireplace, the fire lodge, a group of indians unfortunately they were friendly indians. and they came in from a war party and he greeted them.

have you ever seen a war dance? in the general said yes, i have. but have you ever danced a war dance? in washington say no, i haven't. so the chief said, we will show you what it's like. indeed brought washington into the band and they went around and around the fireside. and he was allowed to jihads seahawk all around. afterward he said you know, i wish i had been with you on this war party because you only captured one scout and i would've liked to seen a little

more bloody. and so, i think -- i think i have enjoyed looking at the maps up in the l. because with these comments by washington himself. this was the wilderness and he react to do it. thank you. >> thank you for your comment. tanks a lot. >> since we're in this library, which sources to choose from this library? >> well, one of the great resources here is a collection of washington's ratings that was published for the bicentennial in 1932. and you know, in this digital age, of course one is able to search washington's ratings on the web, the library of congress has his papers digitized and

facsimiles -- in facsimile but also, you know, transcriptions. so it's a very handy tool. but there's something about being able to have a shelf of real books that you can crack open and really look at them in page through something that's of course disappearing, but to be able to do it here was a tremendous asset, to be able to collect those folks into search through on your own terms, it's very different than working digitally. so washington's ratings, edited by fitzpatrick in the 30s were a wonderful jewel that not every library has a full set of, but they are so accessible.