supportive of its treaty ally. and i think the japanese understand that. we need to be very close to them. we need to work very closely with them, and even under the democratic party of japan, i know the foreign minister will, they've got a strong leadership that understands the threats from china. >> if i could say something about this. it's part of a pattern we've seen over the past two years of china being very assertive about the maritime area around the south china sea, yellow sea, this type of thing. the net effect of this has really damaged china's position in the asia-pacific region. china is weaker today than it was a year ago because of this behavior. the u.s. is much stronger and the obama government has this strategy which feeds into. is what you're doing is reinforcing america's stature and strength in asia while retaining china. if i were as calculating person

in china, i would say this is a dumb policy. we have to stop doing this type of thing. and so the thing to watch after mr. hu jintao's visit is will they stop, will he stop doing this kind of thing? is done. is hurting, i think this is not u.k. detention of the chinese leaders. it cost them. i think this topic i think about, has done a very good job very quietly intervening in various ways and saying, we're not going to allow this, it's not going to happen. and i think it's been quite effective. and so let's watch. let's see what happens. if we have a situation where the military is out of control in china, if it's been being met we know to rise, then it could be more dangerous situation. but at this point i would have to agree with mr. wortzel, i think the civilian leaders to have ultimate control. when you look at their cost and benefits of this kind of behavior hurts them. so i think they have to call it back. >> make you very much. and thank you, madam speaker.

i yield back to make of my time. >> pleased to recognize mr. ackerman, the ranking member designated on the subcommittee on the middle east and south asia. >> thank you, madam chair. the chinese have always been bad actors. they were the national focus of attention of being almost exclusively the world's number one reckless -- reckless and to richard nixon has put out came along and decide to have an intervention, and decided it was a better policy to try to engage the chinese rather than to continue china bashing, which to some seems counterproductive to reaching a particular policy and behavior change. and now we have noticed that there is a small club of recluse

nations, and the chinese and the north koreans have found each other, and have swung reckless anonymous. with the chinese being, trying sometimes very unsuccessfully to affect the behavior of the north koreans. both seem to be engaging in very productive -- evocative activities on and off, especially of late. can the chinese really affect the behavior of the north koreans? they seem to be looking like they are trying, sometimes looking like they are not. is that something that they dial up, dial down, depending on china's needs, kind of a controlled? or do they lack any influence?

>> i don't think it's a candidate. the question is will they, congressman. >> you are saying they can't? >> well, they provide somewhere between 70 and 90% of north korea's energy needs. somewhere around 40, 50% of their fuel needs, and a great deal of foreign investment. so yes, you can. they fear that if they cut some of that, it would lead to instability in north korea and they would end up with south korea, japan and the united states on the border. that's one thing. second, my view is that they absolutely enjoy the fact that the united states is pretty heavily dependent on them, at least perceptually to interact with north korea and that certain restraints in my view a lot of the state department's diplomacy against china, or for

china. >> i think china could help with north korea, also. and i think their interest is very much on stability. that's what they want. and they worry that pressure on north korea not only could lead to the effect that mr. wortzel point out, but north korea, you could see them as any. north koreans talk about this quite often. but the net effect is what was the chinese do. i think they will seek their interest in school. at the situation looks like a will become very unstable, then they will intervene. and i think they did intervene in the case of the north korean provocation at the artillery barrage that killed several south koreans and the latter part of last year. and the u.s. has maintained to the north koreans that north korea's provocations and particularly its development of nuclear weapons as a direct threat to the united states. so the u.s. put i think very good pressure on the chinese to get them off the dime, the north

koreans into their -- >> you're saying that the chinese have an actual 12 step plan? >> no. they don't -- they don't have a 12 -- this is the id of china rising and being in control. they are not writing -- they are not in control. they don't control north korea. they have a lot of influence over it. >> the same could be said with their very different but also dangerous relationship with iran. >> iran is much further away and influence in iran is much lower than it is in a place like north korea. their fundamental and north korea. it is right on their border. >> but they are getting with a nuclear power and a nuclear wannabe. wannabe. >> exactly. >> the chinese are pretty farsighted. do they see this as a threat not just to us but themselves? >> they see the mark near-term threat. it's not so much that you political -- the geopolitical out of south korea been on the border of china, it's the basic

lady of instability. >> talk about the economic instability? >> absolutely. >> yield back the remaining four seconds. >> thank you very much, mr. ackerman. i recognize mr. burton. >> thank you, madam chairman. or chair. thank you for -- >> prefer as your excellency. [laughter] >> thank you for having this hearing. i'm going to ask a couple of questions and yield to my friend mr. smith. first of all, you may have answered this question, mr. yang. but you have any idea how many people are in communist gulags? >> it's really difficult that number. so for the reason, and i talk about prison system. i talk to to present system. one is official. through the court you can get

record of how many people they detain. but there's another prison system that is like joe. there are hundreds of them in china now, run by local government at various level. so we just cannot know, cannot find it how many people are being detained. on top of that, many people are missing, and many people are being put under house arrest. so we just don't know how many people. >> we've been told it's in the millions, and i presume you would agree with that. >> i don't have specific number, and i would say many. i would say china has most prisoners in the world. >> one of the things that i gather from listening to these learned people is that i believe china is not dumb.

i believe they are very smart. and their leaders. and i think that they are playing chess, and they're doing it over a long very good time. they are moving as they can into the craving and into south america. they are making friends with supporting tyrants who are not socialist but many of them are communists. and they're putting us in a trick bag because of the economic things that they're doing to us. right now we have a $270 billion trade deficit with them. i think we are what, well over a trillion dollars in hock to them as far as what we owe them. and if they started pulling the strings, which i think they probably will at some point, they can make us at least to some degree dance to their tune. and so i would like to get from you, and, your perception on the long-term goals of china, and

whether or not they're doing what i think they're doing both economically and militarily. they are building their military up dramatically. and so, they have got us by the throat as far as our debt to them. and that would threaten our economy long-term. and if they're building up their military and making these connections around the world, does that pose as a real long-term threat to the united states and our security? and i yield to mr. chang and mr. wortzel. >> that me say, that in my view there is a long-term historical and cultural -- >> but can you sum up pretty quickly? >> yes. long-term cultural affinity for the tools of power and comments in china. and that creates -- were they can almost dictate other independent states how they should behave. and that's the way i read a lot of their behavior, particularly

around their periphery. >> i believe that they want to be a. competitor to the united states. they want to drive the u.s. out of asia, which i think is very clear. they would like to remedy their currency to be the worlds reserve currency, and certainly they want to dominate nations on their periphery. this is clear from what the chinese have been doing. and as we've seen in this past year it's been very concerning about the relations with japan, south korea, india, we say military or semi-military moves against these countries which are, after all, our allies. so clearly, china is an adversary, when we have to be very careful about because yes, i do think that they to play chess, but the one thing though is that they often make very serious strategic errors. they are, tactics, but long-term strategic moves maybe not so good as we saw in this past year, and as doctor to talk about. >> mr. smith is recognized. >> thank you very much.

my friend asked the question about receiving a chinese president like hu jintao. it's not like you meet with or receive, it is how you do it. the concern that many of us have is at stake again when bush had a working lunch in 2006, it sends a message, especially when he is the jailer of -- >> thank you, mr. smith. thank you. we welcome congresswoman bass of california to our committee. thank you. and i'm pleased to recognize mr. schakett of ohio. we are so pleased to have you return to serve with us. thank you. the gentleman is recognized. >> thank you very much, madam chairwoman. mr. wortzel, i have a couple of questions for you first. i was for quite a few years when the co-chairman of the congressional taiwan caucus, it's been very interested in is issues and been there many times over the years. and relative to their defense,

you had mentioned the fighter planes in particular. could you discuss, at the time there was a move for some submarines as well, and that ultimate didn't go anywhere or icu frannie. what are your thoughts about that? >> it's a very difficult problem. it's a problem for the united states navy because they really don't want to have to work on or produce diesel submarines. >> they were talking i doing in france or europe or someplace? >> the french got away with a variety enough chinese and taiwanese to get some destroyers there. everybody involved in that had accident fought off a tall building. i do think that will work the second time. they need submarines. i mean, if the united states could get costa rica to buy a dozen submarines from germany and then transfer them, it doesn't hurt anybody.

the germans look the other way on the retransfer license. if we bought them and we transferred, they need -- but i don't think it's a viable to think that they're going to begin to produce them from nothing and then fill out the rest of the defense budget. >> and relative to the missiles, i think when we first organized the caucus, and it's been 12, 14 years ago or so, i think the number that was 400 were 500 missiles, it went to 700. now is 1100. i mean, clearly china has been threatening taiwan for many, many years now, and bullying to a considerable degree. relative to the missiles, is there antimissile technology that would be helpful? there was talk about that at the time. you mentioned some missile system. could you elaborate on that slightly? >> we have sold them ballistic

missile defense technology. a limited amount. it will help them. it could protect specific areas. that's still an awful lot of missiles. my personal view, and this is really the united states defense, we need to be working on lasers. we don't want to be shooting two or three missiles at another missile. we need to melt them right out of the sky quickly. >> and slightly off topic but not really that much, and begin mentioning that taiwan theme, there president has been in prison now for some time. and certainly he has been punished or his alleged transgression. isn't enough in of? isn't it about time was had a recent point where perhaps the criminalization of politics here that mr. chang, i see you nodding. if you want to jump in here welcome to do so. >> i think the real issue with

former president chen is the procedures under which he was convicted. and at this point there needs to be a thorough review of the way that the current government has been prosecuting and persecuting members of the democratic progressive party. this is really a very bad story. the united states needs to pay attention. freedom house has talked a lot about the erosion of human rights in taiwan. and it is going to be a big story in taiwan for the next two or three years. >> thank you. and -- >> if i could, your comments on taiwan. one thing, first, yes have been problems perhaps with a due process, but my god, the charges against him that have been proven are very damaging. the fact that he's in j-lo seems to make a lot of sense to someone like me. >> how long has he been in prison that? >> two years maybe. a little less than two years.

>> family members in j-lo as will? >> i'm not sure where she is right now but she has been convicted. this is the corruption. and so i think the charges are worth looking at carefully. on the military side, just keep in mind with one reservation i have about this, one of the most important ones, is taiwan willing to buy? taiwan, their gdp, their military budget is less than 3% of their gdp. you are not dealing with a country that really wants to militarize itself or build itself up militarily. >> i only have five seconds. that was one of the frustrating part. we kept pushing them to buy the -- >> thank you. recognize mr. marino of pennsylvania, who will be yielding has done to mr. smith. if you could make that motion. >> madam chair, i did yield my

time to mr. smith. >> thank you. mr. smith is recognized. >> thank you, madam chair, for the courtesy. and my good friend and a member. i have just a couple of questions and follow-up. i kind of ran out of time, we go about the issue of how you receive a person who, with his past and present, raises serious issues about what we are actually doing, especially to the dissidents who will do and throughout all of china, including liu xiaobo and his wife were under house arrest, the jailer of liu xiaobo is getting a steak dinner. these are not nuances. these are profound issues that are raised here. so if you could perhaps, some of you, might want to speak to the issue. let me also say that the distinguished chairman of mentioned a moment ago, these are some the greatest advice human rights defenders, and their loved ones. one was abducted out of vietnam

right as president, the president took over in 2002. they have not seen their father. they try to get in to see them. he was abducted out of vietnam back to china when he is now spending a horrific ordeal. going to do is here today, she made a 2000 track to thailand with her two children after her older daughter was so despondent, perhaps even suicidal, because he was being so mistry. what we often forget it's not so much the dissidents, what is their families who share in the cruelty. she made it, thankfully. and her children. but again, it raises questions about how can a man who is responsible, and i was a

director responsible, he gets a steak dinner. when frank wolf and i made several trips to the prc, we met with the premier. i believe we do have meetings like that. we had a list oppressoroppressors. with issues dealing with forced abortion, religious persecution. we laid it all out. he wasn't happened in receipt of all that but it was a very, very real conversation. and i wonder if, you know, when the toast are made later on tonight and there's all of this group law around a steak dinner, that all that kind of in the background and what message have we set. also if you speak to this and i will yield, the bad governance, i cheered and what chaired the committee years ago, three hearings on what china is doing in africa, people like by shared in zimbabwe, so many others, who are dictators, by the chinese model of control and secret

police. and i'm very, very worried about the influence of their bad governance model and bad human rights model is having, unless we really speak loud and clear. and i would again make my appeal to the president, to the press corps, the public. don't walk on egg shells. speak boldly about specially prison obama about his fellow peace prize winner, as he won it last year. this year, who is like wishing in prison and his wife under house arrest. >> congressman. i am personally upset about the honors that hu jintao is receiving. so it's not a matter of whether to meet our receive hu jintao. it is have to agree with you i agree with you totally. and giving hu jintao this on a will send two messages to china. one is to china's government and the others to china's people. that can be described as we can

get away. they put nobel peace prize when they're in j-lo. we can get away standing for human rights. the message to the people, that if u.s. may not be that sincere about human rights issues in china. and i want to emphasize that china is very practical, very rational player. china's legitimacy is performance-based. namely, the only thought of legitimate for this regime to continue its rule in china is economic growth. so we have to much impose the fear on our self, thinking that if we take a stronger position on human rights issue, that will jeopardize our economic relationship with china.

why should we fear? these are the persons we should -- it is then that we should fear, you know, any jeopardizes economic relations with the u.s. and the rest of the world. because the slow economic growth will be there all the problems we have been accumulating in the past years, that will cost the government to collapse. >> thank you very much, mr. reno, for giving the time to mr. smith. and now batting cleanup, one of our committee superstars, recognized a five minute. >> thank you, madam chairwoman. i was going to ask a question here. i think this is an issue that maybe everybody who is has represented in the business community, who does business in china should be thinking about. there was an article on extortion in the harvard

business review in december. and the subject is china versus the world, whose technology is at? an exhaustive study of the actual consequences for u.s. businesses in china, let me just read you, larry, one of the conclusions that the authors wrote. chinese officials have learned to tackle multinational companies, including u.s. companies, often forcing them to form joint ventures with its national champions, and transfer the latest technology in exchange for current and future business opportunities there companies that resist are simply excluded from projects. the chinese government uses the restrictions to drive wedges between foreign rivals vying to land big projects in the country, and hindus each of them to transfer the technology that state owned enterprises need to

catch up. it is extortion. and we all know numerous examples. we have heard witnesses i think two years ago, we heard from nancy weinstein, nancy's lifestyles opened a business in beijing, only to have it stolen out from under her. how she was in shanghai. that was a shanghai example. but since that hearing i have probably heard from a half-dozen businesses that said, we don't want to go public, but this is their modus operandi. now it appears in the harvard business review laying out the case that this is the modus operandi. for the chinese government. but i had your thoughts on that? >> mr. royce, it is the modus operandi. now, i have to say that american companies that are induced to do that, do that of their own volition, because they hope that

based on the ability to enter the marketplace, you're going to earn a lot of money. sandhu, some don't. >> very, the next chapter is once the technology is stolen, that company had better be prepared for a pretty quick exit out of china. because its contracts are often about to change. it's workforce doesn't show up the next morning. it's in violation of any number of new rules here its leases are terminated. we've heard the stories over and over again. >> i would only suggest, a legislative strategy to remedy it. >> yes. >> and that's if a company can legitimately demonstrate that its products or its technology was stolen, then prohibit the sale of sf and the united states. >> that's a good remedy. that's a good remedy.

but an from the experience that we've had going to bat with our constituents out in california, and nancy weinstein would be an example, we have not been able through the court system in china to have any success, and to my knowledge i don't know if any success. i wondered if you would agree with one of the points made in this report, and the authors conclude, it might be useful for the u.s. to dispense with a premise that it could have been economically compatible relationship with china. in other words, knowing going in that these are two radically different systems, and china has failed to bring their system into compliance with any of the international norms for commercial activity, or for rule of law. >> i don't know why you would choose to do business with a

documented thief. >> student, did you say documented these? >> gas. >> my hope would be there are many other countries in asia don't have an interest in closer -- we see this in the polling all the time. and i think a key aspect of managing china's rise will be our alliances with china's neighbors across these asia and south asia. and i think that getting reassurance to our friends and placing a check on may be china's regional ambitions will be necessary. but what more shall we be doing with these countries to encourage trade investment? and what more should we do to let the u.s. business community now their return on investment is a negative one in terms of china? that gets out occasion in the journal, but not often enough. >> thank you. the gentleman side has expired.

and now virtually our last question and answer five minute will be from nebraska. >> thank you, madam chair, for the time and thank you, gentlemen for appearing before us today. i have a fairly lofty sense for me. basically says i want to stress the importance of managing our complex relationship with china in a manner that honors the transcendent principles that define our national purpose and identity. but let me stop there. as a look out in the audience here, i see a number of young people. and i think it's important to get your mind around this. many of you are perhaps newly married or hope to be married in the future. let's suppose you were in china and the authorities come by and say, how many children do you have? we have one. we have one on the way. that is one too many. come with us. can you imagine that in the united states? we can't even get our mind around these concepts, and yet this is present who gentiles

china of today. now, i sincerely hope that as the president meets, as president obama meets with president who matter, that human rights issues are going to figure most prominently in these discussions and the white house has indicated some direction in that regard. but since i've been serving in congress minutes of both sides of the aisle have boldly challenged beijing on the ruthless treatment and their families, internet freedom activists, religious minorities and women and families victimized by a callous policy of the worst abortion. let's turn to economic appears full estimate is we all but $2 trillion to china, and had a bilateral trade deficit approaching 300 billion. of course, this poses waiting concerned. where appropriate i believe we must challenge china. to abandon its unbridled marketers -- which manifested

itself in massive subsidies and other practices that contribute to this staggering imbalance. i think also we must look ourselves in the i in the united states, and take action to get our fiscal house in order, to revive our stagnant manufacturing industries, refurbish our industrial base, and take responsibly for economic future. the reality is we buy their stuff, and they buy our debt. and this is a truly dysfunctional marriage. so i think we have an obligation to forthright the address the sources of tension with china, and our commitment to me to respect, should never entice us to ignore these very serious concerns. and i hope that the administration will echo these concerns i in the meetings today with chinese leadership. my question to the panel is this. that chinese gift cover to the

north koreans. the chinese do business with iran. the chinese do not respect human rights. what type of world does china envision? what is the endgame? a nationalistic surge underwritten by a new capitalistic communist model never before seen in the history of the world, can you comment on that, please? >> i would be very happy to comment. i i think the chinese objective is very much focused on the here and now. mr. yang emphasized they have a legitimacy deficit, and their legitimacy rests on economic performance. and to do that they need stability. and to do that they have to interact with the world on a lot of different ways and a lot of giveaways with economic development being the primary. and so to confront the united states in a major way something i think is not fundamental what they're about right now. their long-term plans are very

vague. they've got a very big agenda for the short term. and it's going to keep them busy for a long time. >> so does raising the concerns that i raise as well as many others today help address, give rise to more legitimacy concerns as they further distance themselves from what we would consider to be the international candidate of responsible nations? the idea that we should address all the issues that you have mentioned in a forthright way is very clear. we should do that. no question. but i think your idea that somehow the chinese have this plan for domination and control of the world, i think about images that china is a bit of scrambling, trying to keep legitimacy, trying to keep control of a very vibrant economic and social situation. it's under good control in many respects. >> is raising the issues i just raised hinder their request for

this legitimacy? >> i think it could. it could. i do not care because economics trumps everything. >> no, economics does not trump everything. it's that prestige is as important as well. the position is as important as well. >> the gentleman's time has expired. it is a testament to the great interests of this topic has, that members keep coming, coming back so pleased to recognize mr. deutsch, my floridian colleague for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. i appreciate your leadership of this committee. ..

to be more serious and in enforcing and protecting the intellectual property rights of our citizens. >> i think the one thing that we can do if we really are serious about it is start adding tariffs for goods of countries that do engaged in willful theft of intellectual property. this is a really important thing for us to do, and at think it is probably about the only way to do it. there are a number of other strategies. one think the obama administration has done is gone after these indigenous innovation rules that president hu jintao has sponsored and does put american companies at serious disadvantage if they want to do business in china. that is one thing, but when it

comes to the actual theft, which is another issue, i believe that the only way to do with this is sanctions of some sort, penalties of some sort, and you probably are going to follow the general trajectory of h.r. 2378. >> you are nodding your head. >> i agree. i mean, we have to avail ourselves of the available world trade organization remedies. we are not always doing that. there are more limited things that we might like, but we must avail ourselves of them, and we have to work, particularly with our european allies as friends so that when a case is brought it is not just by one country. i think that helps. countervailing duties is another potential remedy that i think would be useful. >> i would like to broaden the discussion to the implications of the theft of intellectual property back to the links

between stealing intellectual property and the funding of terrorist organizations. a majority of the counterfeit goods to originate in china and wind up in places like the troubled region of south america were millions of dollars in direct contributions have been provided to hezbollah. one such note special entity provided a lump-sum payment of three and a half million dollars to hezbollah. is there a way, even moving beyond the important nature of intellectual property rights on its own, to reinforce this severe implications of these violations in our own -- >> at think you just pointed the way toward a response to that. that would be to take a look at the peron sanctions act. with the terrorism nexus,

legislation could be modeled along the lines of the sanctions act that was specifically sanctioned the chinese violators that are engaged in that activity. >> and along those lines, under the enron sanctions act and the legislation we passed last year, by all accounts there are chinese firms that ought to be sanctioned. they have not been. do you have thoughts on the actions taken by these chinese companies? in iran in helping them to overcome the sanctions imposed by other companies? >> here you really have to get the oversight of the administration. there are not doing the job. they're not doing the job. >> we sanction individuals chinese enterprises, but essentially they are all controlled by the state. essentially what we should be doing is making about sanctions that go beyond just the individual enterprise because essentially what we are doing is

going after the pinkie when we should be going after the head. >> and in the remaining seconds how, and that specific issue, do we do after the head? >> it would be putting sanctions on goods from countries that do involve in certain prohibitive behavior. this is going to be very difficult for the united states to do. we don't up to now have had the will to do it. when it comes to things like iran sanctions were selling arms to the taliban we have to think about our priorities. >> thank you. >> safety very much, mr. deutch, they do, panelists, for excellent testimony. thank you to the members who participated did it take you to the audience. the briefing is now adjourned. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

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>> in conjunction with the visit of president hu jintao the white house said today that china would purchase $45 billion in u.s. exports, including a highly sought $19 million deal for 200 boeing airplanes. the head of boeing is one of a number of business executives, chinese and american, at the white house at this hour including steve ballmer of microsoft, goldman sacks, and dupont. just to let you know, our coverage said john -- schedule coming up at 105 eastern we will take it to the white house for the joint news conference between the chinese president and president obama. then over to the state department. vice-president biden and his wife and secretary of state clinton are holding a lunge for the chinese president. we expect the official toast at about 2:25 p.m. eastern to be the coverage of the state dinner gets underway at 5:30 p.m.

with the guests are rivals, the chinese president should arrive around 6:00. you will see all that live here on c-span to this evening. president obama hosted the official welcoming ceremony about 9:00 eastern. here is a look. [inaudible conversations] ♪ ♪ >> ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states and mrs. michele obama. ♪

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[background sounds] >> ladies and gentlemen, the national anthem of the people's republic of china followed by the national anthem of the united states. >> present. >> present. ♪ ♪

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[background sounds] [background sounds] >> good morning, everyone. president hu jintao, members of the chinese delegation, on behalf of michele and myself, welcome to the white house. on behalf of the american people, welcome to the united states. [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] >> three decades ago on a january day like this another american president stood here and welcome to another chinese leader with a historic normalization of relations between the united states and the people's republic of china. on that day the great possibilities of cooperation between our two nations were spoke of. ♪ [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> looking back on that winter

day in 1979, it is now clear the previous 30 years have been at time of estrangement for our two countries. the 30 years since have been a time of growing exchanges and understanding. with this visit we can lay the foundation for the next 30 years. ♪ [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> at a time when some doubt the benefits of cooperation between the united states and china this

visit is also a chance to demonstrate a simple truth, we have an enormous stake in each other's success. in an interconnected world, global economy nations including our own will be more prosperous and more secure when we work together. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> the united states welcomes

china's rise as a strong, prosperous, and successful member of the community of nations. indeed, china's success has brought with it economic benefits for our people as well as yours. our cooperation on a range of issues has helped advance stability in the asian-pacific and the world. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] ..

[speaking chinese] [speaking chinese] >> mr. president, we can learn from our people. chinese and american students and educators, business people, tourists, researchers and scientists, including chinese americans who are here today, they work together and make progress together every single day. they know that even as our nations compete in some areas, we can cooperate in so many others, in a spirit of mutual respect, for our mutual benefit.

[speaking chinese] [speaking chinese] >> when deng xiaoping said so long ago remains true today. there are great possibilities for cooperation between our countries. president hu, members of the chinese delegation, let us sees these possibilities together. welcome to the united states of

america. hwan-ying. [applause] [speaking chinese] [speaking chinese] >> translator[speaking in nativ]

>> translator: mr. president, mrs. obama, ladies and gentlemen, dear friends, it gives me great pleasure to come to washington and pay a state visit to united states at the beginning of the new year, at the invitation of president obama. at this point in time, let me extend, our behalf of the 1.3 billion chinese people, sincere greetings and best wishes to the people of the united states. [speaking chinese] >> translator: i have come to the united states to increase mutual trust, and enhance

friendship, deepen cooperation, and push for the positive, cooperative, and comprehensive china-u.s. relationship for the 21st century. [speaking chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: over the past 32 years, since the establishment of diplomatic ties, the u.s. china relationship has grown into one with strategic significance and global influence. since president obama took

office, with concerted efforts of the two sides, our cooperation in various fields has produced fruitful results and our relations have achieved new progress. this has brought real benefits to our two peoples, and contributed greatly to world peace and development. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: as we enter the second decade of the 21st century, the people of both china and the united states want to see further progress in our relations and people around the globe want to see greater prosperity in the world. i'm to the new circumstances, and in the face of new challenges, china and the united states share broad common interests and important, and responsibilities. we should adopt a long-term perspective, seek common ground while revolving differences come and work together to achieve sustained, sound, and steady development of our relations. i hope that through this visit, our two countries will advance the positive, cooperative, and comprehensive relationship, and open a new chapter in our cooperation as partners.

>> translator: our cooperation as partnership be based on mutual respect. we live in an increasingly diverse and colorful world. china and the united states should respect each other's choice of development path and each other's core interests. we should deepen mutual understanding through communication, increase mutual trust through dialogue, and expand common ground through exchanges. [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: our cooperation as partners should be based on mutual benefit. china's future and destiny are increasingly tied to those of the world and china-u.s. relations have become closer. our two countries should seek to learn from each other through exchanges and achieve win-win progress through cooperation. this is the right approach for us to develop our relations. [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: our cooperation as partnership be based on joint efforts to meet challenges. china and the united states should step up communication and coordination in international affairs, work together to counter the global challenges, and make a greater contribution to world peace and development. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: our cooperation as partners should be based on the extensive involvement of the people. the chinese and american people cherished deep friendship towards each other, and they fought side-by-side at defining

moments in history when the future and the destiny of mankind were at stake. the two peoples should extend exchanges and enhance friendship. this will offer an inexhaustible driving force for the growth of our relations. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: ladies and

gentlemen, our world today is undergoing major development, major changes and major adjustments. to pursue peace, development and cooperation is the irresistible trend of our time. let us seize the opportunity to forge ahead, hand-in-hand, and work together to enhance cooperation as partners, and let us work with all other countries to build a harmonious world of lasting peace and common prosperity. thank you once again, mr. president president, for your warm welcome. [applause] >> thank you very much. thank you. [background sounds] [background sounds]

[background sounds] ♪ ♪ ♪

♪ ♪ >> the view from the white house now from about 9:00 this morning and the welcoming of chinese president hu jintao. the four-day visit to the united states, we take you now live into the eastern of the white house waiting for the two presidents to come out for a joint news conference which we understand we will have two questions for each president from members of the american and chinese media, part of our coverage of the state visit by the chinese president. it will be the first state dinner for chinese leaders since 1997. david hawkings riding in "cq" today says that guests are to arrive about six. we have our coverage here on c-span2 at 5:30 p.m. he says speaker been is the most

prominent official who will not be attending. he has declined his third consecutive invitation to an obama's steak dinner. over last two times he was minority leader in the u.s. house, not speaker. he does say in "cq" today that the speaker will meet with president who mac tomorrow on capitol hill. also part of our coverage today after this news conference, the chinese president will be over at the state department for a lunging be hosted by the vice president and his wife, doctor jill biden, and the secretary of state, hillary clinton. so first the news conference here, state department coverage later this afternoon. and our state your coverage tonight beginning at 530. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> waiting here in eastern for the news conference, the joint news conference between president obama and president hu of china. that you have been meeting with chinese and american business leaders this afternoon. that's probably wrapping up now. among those, ahead of microsoft, motorola, coca-cola company,

dupont and others. the white house announced today that china will purchase of $45 million in exports including $19 million in boeing airplane, some 200 boeing airplanes announced today by the white house. the ap is reporting on that meeting with business leaders saying that the president has told u.s. and chinese business leaders that he wants specific ideas on how to remove trade barriers and protect intellectual property. president hu back meanwhile, told the executive china is speeding up its economic restructuring in trying to increase domestic consumption. again, the chinese president who mac and president obama just finishing up a meeting with the u.s. and chinese business leaders.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> at the east room in the white house we are waiting for the battle of president obama and chinese private hu jintao. they had been meeting with american and chinese business executives. the chinese president will be over at the state department for lunch and we will bring you coverage at 2:25. a toast with secretary clinton and secretary of state, vice president and mrs. biden at the state department this afternoon. coverage this evening of the white house dinner gets underway at 5:30 eastern with the guests arrival. falling for dinner this evening at about 8:00 we will take your phone calls and get your reaction to what you're seeing today and some of the issues that are being discussed between the u.s. and china. the "new york times" writes about that this morning on their

front page, writing that the two countries have to resolve a wide range of economic tensions including one american multinational corporations see as a deteriorating environment for investing in making money in what has become the worlds second largest economy. the times writes it's no longer justified overachiever chinese textile and electronics and toy imports. china won that battle years ago. now the question with japan in the 1980s is whether general electric and microsoft and other american companies that dearly want to expand into china rapidly expanding markets will find themselves eaten at their own game backed by chinese companies, backed by the chinese government. those leaders of those companies, general electric, microsoft and boeing and others have been meeting with president obama and president hu just a short while ago.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> waiting at the white house. this is the east room, and the news conference, the joint news conference between the chinese president hu jintao and president obama should get underway shortly. it was scheduled to start at 1:05 eastern. the chinese present will be at the state department shortly after 2:00 this afternoon. we will, that as well. we will bring you some of the toast with secretary clinton and others.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> just sitting down on the front row is the former governor

of utah, and the current ambassador to china, jon huntsman. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> ladies and gentlemen, the president of the united states, and the president of the people's republic of china. >> everybody, please have a seat. good afternoon. it is my pleasure to welcome president hu to the white house and return the hospitality he showed when i visited china last year. this is our eighth meeting. together, we have shown that the

united states and china, when we cooperate, can receive substantial benefits. the positive, constructive, cooperative u.s.-china relationship is good for the united states. we just had a very good meeting with business leaders from both our countries. and they pointed out that china is one of the top markets for american exports. we are now exporting more than $100 million a year in goods and services to china, which supports more than half a million american jobs. in fact, our exports to china are growing nearly twice as fast as our exports to the rest of the world, making it a key part of my goal of doubling american exports and keeping american competitive in the 21st century. cooperation between our countries is also good for china. china's ex ord economic growth has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of poverty.

this is a tribute to the chinese people. but it's also thanks to decades of stability in asia made possible by americans forward presence in the region, by strong prayed with america, and by an open international economic system championed by the united states of america. cooperation between our countries is also good for the world. along with rg 20 partners, we have moved from the brink of catastrophe to the beginning of global economic recovery. with our security council partners, we passed and are enforcing the strongest sanctions to date against iran over its nuclear program. we worked together to reduce tensions on the korean peninsula. and most recently we welcomed china's support for the historic referendum in southern sudan. as we look to the future, what's needed i believe is a spirit of

cooperation. that is also friendly competition. in areas like those that i just mentioned, we will cooperate, forging partnerships and making progress that either nation can achieve alone. in other areas we will compete, a healthy competition that spurs both countries to innovate and become even more competitive. that's the kind of relationship i see for the united states and china in the 21st century, and that's the kind of relationship that we advanced today. i am very pleased that we have completed dozens of deals that will increase u.s. exports by more than $45 billion. and also increased china's investment and the united states by several billion dollars. from machinery to software, from aviation to agriculture, these deals will support some 235,000 american jobs. and that includes many

manufacturing jobs. so this is great news for america's workers. i did also stressed to president hu that there has to be a level playing field for american companies competing in china. the trade has to be fair. so i welcomed his commitment that american companies will not be discriminated against when they compete for the chinese government procurement contracts. and i appreciate his willingness to take new steps to combat the theft of intellectual property. we are renewing our long running cooperation in science and technology which sparked advances in agriculture and industry. we are moving ahead with the u.s.-china clean energy research center, and joint ventures of wind power, smart grids, and clinical. i believe that as the two largest energy consumers and emitters of greenhouse gases, the united states and china have a responsibility to combat climate change by building on the progress of copenhagen in cancun and showing the way to a clean energy future.

.. there needs to be further adjustment in its change rate and that this can be a powerful tool for china boosting domestic demand and lessening the inflationary pressures in their economy, so we will continue to look for the value of china's currency to be increasingly driven by the market, which will help ensure no undue economic advantage. we are expanding and deepening dialogue and cooperation between our militaries, which increases

trust and reduces misunderstandings. in regard to regional stability and security in east asia, i stress that the united states has a fundamental interest in maintaining freedom of navigation, unimpeded commerce, respect for international law and the peaceful resolution of differences. i welcome the progress that has been made on both sides of the taiwan strait in reducing tensions and building economic ties and we hope this progress continues, because it is in the interest of both sides. the region and the united states. indeed i reaffirmed our commitment to a one china policy taste on the three u.s. china communiqués and the taiwan relations act. i told president hu we appreciate china's role in reducing tensions on the korean peninsula and we agreed that north korea must avoid further provocations. i also said that north korea's nuclear and ballistic vessel program is increasingly a direct threat to the security of the

united states and our allies. we agreed that the paramount goal must be complete denuclearization of the peninsula. in that regard, the international community must continue to state clearly that north korea's uranium enrichment program is in violation of north korea's commitment and international obligations. with respect to global security i'm pleased we are moving ahead with president hu's commitment with last year's summit to establish excellence which will help secure the world's vulnerable nuclear materials. to prevent the spread of nuclear weapons we agreed that iran must uphold its international obligations and that the u.n. security council sanctions on iran must be fully enforced. along with our p5 plus one partners, we will continue to offer the government of iran the opportunity for dialogue and integration into the international community but only if it meets its obligations.

i reaffirmed america's fundamental commitment to the universal rights of all people and that includes basic human rights like freedom of speech, the press, of assembly, of association and demonstration and of religion. writes better recognized in the chinese constitution. as i've said before the united states speaks up for these freedoms and the dignity of every human being. not only because it is part of who we are as americans but we do so because we believe that by upholding these universal rights, all nations including china, will ultimately be more prosperous and successful. so, today we have agreed to move ahead with our formal dialogue on human rights. we have agreed to new exchanges to advance the rule of law, and even as we the united states recognize that tibet is part of the people's republic of china, the united states continues to support further dialogue between

the government of china and the representatives of the dalai lama to resolve concerns and differences including the preservation of the religious and cultural identity of the tibetan people. finally, we continue to expand partnerships between our people especially our young people. today my wife, michelle, is highlighting our efforts to increase the number of american students studying in china, to 100,000, and i'm very pleased the president hu will be visiting my hometown of chicago. mr. president you are brave to visit chicago in the middle of winter. i have warned him that the weather may not be as pleasant as it is here today. but i know that in the students and business people you meet, you will see the extraordinary possibilities of partnership between our citizens. so, again i believe that we have helps to lay the foundation for cooperation between the united states in china for decades to come and michelle and i look forward to hosting president hu

for a state dinner tonight to celebrate the deep ties between our people as well as their shared hopes for the future. president hu. [speaking in chinese] >> translator: friends from the press ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. first of all, i want to express sincere appreciation to president obama and the government and people of the united states for the warm welcome accorded to me and my colleagues. just now i've had talks with president obama in a candid, pragmatic and constructive atmosphere. we had in-depth exchange of views and reached important agreements on china-u.s. relations and major international and regional issues of shared interests. we reviewed the development of china-u.s. relations in the last two years. we positively assessed the

progress we made in dialogue, coordination and cooperation in various areas. the chinese side appreciates president obama's commitment to a positive and constructive china policy and to stable and growing china-u.s. relations since he took office. both president obama and i agree that as mankind enters the second decade of the 21st century, the international situation continues to undergo profound and complex changes and there is a growing number of global challenges. china and the united states share expanding common interests and shoulder increasing, and responsibilities. china-u.s. cooperation has great significance for our two countries in the world. the two sides should firmly

adhere to the right direction of our relationship, respect each other's sovereignty, it territorial integrity and developmental interests. promote the long-term steady growth of china-u.s. relations and make even greater contributions to maintaining and promoting world aid and development. we both agree to further push forward the positive cooperative and comprehensive china-u.s. relationship, and commit to put together to build a china-u.s. corporate of partnership taste on mutual respect and mutual benefits to better benefit people in our own countries and the world over. we both agreed to strengthen exchanges and cooperation, being economy and trade, energy and the environment, science and technology, infrastructure

construction, cultural and education, counterterrorism, non-proliferation, law enforcement and other areas, first to achieve mutual benefits during my current visit to the united states, the relevant departments, institutions and enterprises of the two countries have signed a number of cooperation agreements and reached agreements on a series of cooperation projects. these will inject fresh momentum of the intellectual corporation and create a great many job opportunities for both countries. we discuss some disagreements in the economic and trade area and we will continue to appropriately resolved these according to the principle of mutual respect and consultation on equal footing. the president and i agree that china and the united states need to establish a pattern of

high-level exchanges featuring in-depth communication and candid dialogue. president obama and i will stay in close contact through meetings, telephone calls and message. the two sides believe that the expansion of exchanges and cooperation between our military contribute to deepening mutual trust between our two countries and to the growth of our global relationship. we also agreed to encourage all sectors of our society to carry out their reforms of exchange activities, in particular we have high hopes of the young people, hoping that they will better understand each other's country and be more deeply involved in the people-to-people exchanges between our two countries. resident obama and i exchanged views on the international economic situation. we believe the world economy is slowly recovering from the international financial crisis

but there will be a fair amount of unstable factors and uncertainties. both sides agree to strengthen microeconomic policy coordination and actively pursue opportunities for greater cooperation in this process. the two sides support the g20 playing a bigger role in international economic and financial affairs. we agree to push forward to reform international financial system and improved local economic governance. we championed free trade and oppose protectionism and we hope the doha round of negotiations can make early and substantive progress. president obama and i exchanged views on major international and regional issues, including the situation on the korean peninsula, the egg urate -- iranian nuclear issue of climate change in others.

we agreed to spend consultation and coordination on measure issues that concern peace and development in the asia-pacific region and in the world. china and the united states in coordination and cooperation work with the relevant parties to maintain peace and stability on the peninsula, promote denuclearization of the peninsula and achieve lasting peace and security in northeast asia. we will work with the united states and other countries to effectively address global challenges such as meeting the climate challenge, terrorism, transnational crime, energy and resource security, food security, public health security and natural disasters to forge a bright future for the world. i say this to the president, that china is firmly committed to peaceful development and a win-win strategy of opening up. china is a friend and partner of

all countries and china's development is an opportunity for the world. that is all, thank you. >> ben feller with the "associated press." thank you very much. i would like to address both leaders at the may. president obama you have covered the broad scope of this relationship but i would like to follow up specifically on your comments about human rights. can you explain to the american people how the united states can be so allied with a country that is known for treating its people so poorly, for using censorship and forced 20 press its people? do you have any confidence that as a result that will change and if i may on an unrelated topic, i would like to know what you make of the speculation the gentleman in front of me might run against you in 2012. president hoh i would like to give you a chance to respond to this issue of human rights. how do you justify china's record and do you think that is any of the business of the

american people? >> well, first of all let me just say i think ambassador husband has done an outstanding job as ambassador. he is a mandarin speaker. he has brought enormous skilled dedication and talent to the job and the fact that he comes from a different party i think is a strength, not a weakness because it indicates the degree to which both he and i believe that partisanship ends at the waters edge and that we work together to advocate on behalf of our country. so i couldn't be happier with the ambassador service and i'm sure he will be very successful in whatever endeavors he chooses in the future. and i am sure that him having worked so well with me will be a great asset in any republican primary. [laughter]

let me address the other issue in a very serious issue. china has a different political system than we do. china is that a different stage of development than we are. we come from very different cultures and with very different histories. but as i have said before and i repeat to president hoh, we have some core views as americans about the universality of certain rights, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of assembly, that we think are very important and that transcend cultures.

i have been very candid with president hoh about these issues occasionally they are a source of tension between our two governments, but what i have believed is the same thing that i think seven previous presidents have believed which is that we can engage and discuss these issues in a frank and candid way, focus on those areas where we agree while acknowledging they were going to be areas where we disagree. and i want to suggest that there has been an evolution in china over the last dirty years since the first normalization of relations between the united states in china and my expectation is that 30 years from now we will have seen further evolution and further

change. and so, what my approach will continue to be is to celebrate the incredible account push mance of the chinese people, their extraordinary civilizatios in which we have to cooperate not only for the sake of our countries but also for the sake of the world, to acknowledge we are going to have certain differences, and to be honest as they think any partner needs to be honest, when it comes to how we view many of these issues, and so that frank and candid assessment on our part will continue. but that doesn't prevent us from cooperating in these other critical areas. [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: the translator is now translating the question back into chinese. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

>> i apologize, i thought we had simultaneous translation there. i would have roque ended up. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: i am from china central television. there is an old saying in china bad a good relationship between the two peoples posts the key to

a sound relationship between states. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: we know that to further strengthen public support for the development of this relationship it is also very important to the sustained, sound and steady growth of our relations, so president subway

and i would like to ask you the question, what do you think that the two countries need to do to further increase the friendship and mutual understanding between the chinese and american people at the same time we have also noted that the u.s. side has been saying that the united states is willing to see a stronger and more prosperous china so i would like to ask president obama, deep in your heart, do you really think that you can leave comfortably with a constantly growing china and also this question, that what do you think that china's development really means to the united states? [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: i would like to take this question from the lady journalist. the exchanges between our two peoples represent the basis and the driving force behind the growth of our relationship. the establishment of diplomatic relations between our two countries we have seen more

robust exchanges between our two peoples. in such exchanges have also helped promote the steady growth of our relationship. the statistics i have show that each year we have about 3 million people traveling between our two countries. in other words, on every single day about seven to 8000 people are traveling between china and the united states. this is something that is is hardly conceivable 32 years ago when we first established diplomatic ties. in addition, we have also seen very broad-ranging development of the exchanges at some national level. so far, our two countries have already established sister relationships between 36 provinces and states and we have also developed 161 payers of sister cities between our two

countries. the chinese government is supportive of the friendly exchanges between our two peoples, and we have been creating all kinds of conditions to expand the friendly exchanges between the american and the chinese people. during this visit, president obama and i reached an agreement that both sides will take proper steps to further increase the people-to-people exchanges. on the one hand, we willing courage to young people in our two countries to go to each other's countries to pursue further education and to learn more about each other and at the same time, we have also decided to put in place a dialogue and exchange mechanism between different chinese and american provinces and states. besides, we are also going to further expand cultural exchanges and develop tourism.

we are going to use a variety of means to further increase people-to-people exchanges. i would like to particularly state that the young people post this feature of this relationship. it is extremely important to increase the exchanges between the young people in our two countries through such exchanges i hope that our friendship can be furthered, and i also hope that day in the future they can serve the ambassador's of good will for our two countries and they can make even more positive contributions to the development of a cooperative partnership based on mutual respect and mutual benefits. >> let me respond briefly to your question. i absolutely believe that china's peaceful rise is good for the world and it is good for america. [speaking in chinese]

>> it is also good for humanitarian reasons. [speaking in chinese] the united states has an interest in seeing hundreds of millions of people lifted out of poverty. [speaking in chinese] >> we believe part of justice and part of human rights is people being able to make a living and having enough to eat and having shelter, and having electricity and the development of china has brought unprecedented economic growth to more people more quickly than just about anytime in history, and that is a positive good for the world and it is something

that the united states very much appreciates and respects. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> we also think china's rise offers enormous economic opportunity. [speaking in chinese] >> we want to sell you all kinds of stuff. [laughter] [speaking in chinese] we want to sell you planes, we want to sell you cars, we want to sell you software, and as

president hu and his government refocuses the economy on expanding domestic demand, that offers opportunities for u.s. businesses, which ultimately translates into u.s. jobs. [speaking in chinese] it also means is china's standard of living rises, they have more purchasing power. [speaking in chinese] it is something i think we have to remind ourselves, that the united states economy is still three times larger than china's despite having one quarter of the population, so per capita

income is still very different between the two countries, and as china's per capita income rises, that offers an opportunity for increased trade and commercial ties that benefit both countries. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> finally china's rise is potentially good for the world. to the extent that china is functioning as a responsible actor on the world stage, to the extent that we have a partner in ensuring that weapons of mass

destruction don't fall into the hands of terrorists or rogue states, to the extent that we have a partner in dealing with regional hotspots, to the extent that we have a partner in addressing issues like climate change or pandemic, to the extent we have a partner who is helping poorer countries in asia or in africa further develop so that they too and be part of the world economy, that is something that can help create stability and order and prosperity around the world and that is the kind of partnership that we like to see. it is more likely to come if china feel secure and itself is doing well economically. they are more likely to be an effective partner with us on the world stage. [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> john nichols from bloomberg.

thank you mr. president. president obama with your respect and permission because of the translation questions could i direct one first to president hu? president hu first off my colleague as to a question about human rights she did not answer. i was wondering if we could get an answer to that question and then also on capitol hill, senate majority leader harry reid, house speaker john are not attending tonight state dinner. many on capitol hill see china as an economic threat. what can you do to allay their fears? [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] >> translator: because of the technical translation and interpretation problem, i did not hear the question about the human rights. what i know was that -- directed at president obama. [speaking in chinese] >> translator: as you raise this question and i heard the question properly certainly i am in a position to answer that question. [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: president obama and i already met eight times. each time we met, we had an in-depth exchange of views in a candid manner on issues of shared interest and issues of each other's concern. on the issues we have covered, we also discussed human rights. [speaking in chinese] >> translator: china is fully committed to the protection and promotion of human rights, and in the course of human rights, china has also made enormous progress recognized widely in the world. [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: china recognizes and also respects the universality of human rights and at the same time, we do believe that we also need to take into account the different circumstances in the universal value of human rights. [speaking in chinese] >> translator: china is a developing country with a huge population and also a developing country in a crucial stage of reform. in this context, china faces many challenges in economic and social development and a lot needs to be done in china in terms of human rights. [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: we will continue our efforts to improve the lives of the chinese people and we will continue our efforts to promote democracy and under the rule of law in our country. at the same time we are also willing to continue to have exchanges and the dialogue with other countries in terms of human rights and we are also going to -- we are also willing to learn from each other in terms of the good practices. [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: is president obama rightly put it just now there are no disagreements between china and the united states on the issue of human rights. china is willing to engage in dialogue and exchanges with united states on the basis of mutual respect and the principle of noninterference in each other's internal affairs. in this way, we will be able to further increase our mutual understanding, reduce our disagreements and expand our common ground. [speaking in chinese] >> translator: the latter question about the attendance of the state dinner by some congresspeople, who will attend and who will not attend and for what reason, i think president obama certainly in a better position to answer that question.

[laughter] >> is that the question you want to focus on? you get one. >> you have spoken about some of the -- about the importance of exports to your job strategy. at the same time you said there needs to be further adjustment in exchange rate and the r&b is undervalued. to what extent is china's did dressing up its currency effect your ability to grow jobs in this country and lower the unemployment rate? >> well, think that it is important for us to look at the entire economic relationship and the currency issue is one part of it. the first time i met president hu was in april of 2009 and this was the first g20 summit that i attended when we were in the midst of the worst financial

crisis that we had experienced since the 1930s. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> even as we are trying to save the financial system, will lose apple is -- absolutely clear was that we couldn't go back to a system in which the united states was borrowing massively,

consuming massively, but not producing and selling to the rest of the world creating these huge imbalances that helped contribute to the crisis. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> and that is why we pushed and why the g20 adopted a framework that called for rebalancing the world economy. [speaking in chinese]

that gives us some responsibilities. we have got to save more in this country. [speaking in chinese] we have got to cut back on the huge levels of debt both in the private sector but also in the public sector. [speaking in chinese] it also means that there are structural reforms that we have to undergo to make ourselves more competitive in the world economy, so making sure that we have the best education system in the world, that we are we are producing more engineers than lawyers, make him sure that we have a handle on our fiscal problems, making sure that we have got a world-class infrastructure. those are all important parts of us being competitive and being able to export. [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] >> you does also mean though that we have a level playing field when it comes to our trading partners. [speaking in chinese] and so with respect to china, what president hu and myself and our delegations have discussed is how do we make sure that in fact our trading relationship is

fair and a win-win situation as opposed to a win-lose situation. [speaking in chinese] some of that has to do with issues completely unrelated to currency. for example we are making progress on making sure that the government procurement process in china is open and fair to american businesses, and we have made progress as a consequence of that state visit. [speaking in chinese] some of it has to do with

intellectual property protection, so we are in a meeting with business leaders with steve for microsoft pointed out that their estimate is that only one customer and every 10 of their products is actually paying for it in china, and so can we get better enforcement since that is an area where america excels intellectual property and high-value added products and services. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] and the chinese government has

to its credit, taken steps to better enforce intellectual property. we have got further agreement as a consequence of the state visit and i think president hu would acknowledge that more needs to be done. [speaking in chinese] but the currency issue is a part of the problem. the r&b is undervalued. the chinese government has intervened very forcefully in the currency market. they have spent $200 billion just recently, and that is an indication of the degree to which it is still undervalued. president hu has indicated he is committed to moving towards a market-based system and there has been movement but it is not what we want, and what i've said

to president hu and i firmly believe this is, not only will u.s. businesses be able to export more to china if we have a market based currency, but it will also be good for china and president hu's agenda of expanding domestic demand because of the r&b is worth more that means they can buy more products and services and that will contribute to china having greater purchasing power and a higher standard of living. so this is something that can be a win-win. president hu's concern understandably about how rapid the this -- but i'm confident it's the right thing to do in my open expectation is that president hu's resolve will lead to a fully marked taste currency program that will allow more effective trade between our two

countries. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: because of the interpretation from the sum of 10 years -- i would like to ask the chinese interpreter to interpret my two questions correctly and accurately. [laughter] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: my first question for president obama. many people do believe that the biggest problem in this relationship is the lack of strategic ties. do you agree with this view and how do you think the two sides should enhance the strategic mutual trust and how do you think that the two sides should

appropriately manage their differences and expand their common interest? [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: my second question is for president hu jintao. we have noted that both the chinese and american leaders have on various occasions stressed the facts that the influence and the significance of the china-u.s. relationship has gone far beyond the bilateral dimension. china and the united states share broad common interests and shoulder important common

responsibilities in addressing a variety of regional and global issues. so my question is, how do you think that the china and united states can step up their cooperation in in the joint endeavor to tackle the increasing number of global issues? >> well, the -- certainly the more that we can build a baseline of trust, as you called it strategic mutual trust, they more likely we are able to solve the friction or irritants that exist in a relationship between any two countries. [speaking in chinese]

>> which is why i think it is so important that not only governments but people in both countries understand the challenges that each country faces. [speaking in chinese] and not view every issue through the lens of rivalry. [speaking in chinese] for example i know that in china many believe that somehow the united states is interested in containing china's rights. [speaking in chinese]

as i indicated in the answer that i gave to a previous questioner, we welcome china's rights. we just want to make sure that right is done -- but that rise occurs in a way that reinforces international norms and international rules and enhances security and peace as opposed to it in eating a source of conflict either in the region or around the world. [speaking in chinese]

and the security and economic dialogues that we have is now pushed are precisely designed to lessen suspicions, to enhance mutual understanding. the more we understand each other's challenges, the more we can take advantage of opportunities. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] ..

[speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: for journalists who raised the question said in today's world mankind faces more and more of challenges. and i would like to stress here that no country can remain unscathed in face of so many global challenges. and no country can single-handedly tackle global challenges. for example, in fighting terrorism, according to security of humanity, or in tackling the international financial crisis, promoting the growth of the world economy in addressing regional hotspots, fighting transnational crimes, fighting piracy and preventing and communicable diseases, and all these areas countries need to work together to meet the

challenge. china is biggest developing country, and the united states, biggest developed country. in this context, it is also necessary for china and united states to strengthen their cooperation to meet such challenges. how can china and the u.s. do a better job in working together to meet global challenges? i think there are three points i would like to make. and these three points deserve our serious attention and consideration. number one, that our two sides have acted in the spirit of cooperation. as if we were in the same boat, that we should row in the same direction. when we tackled previous international challenges, and i think we need to keep up the spirit in future as we tackled challenges. number two, we need to increase our communication and

coordination. and number three, we need to respect and accommodate each other's interests and concerns. i'm convinced that as long as our two sides continue to act in a business. no, and as long as we continue to work together with other countries concerned, we will be able to engage in cooperation come in even broader range of areas to the benefit of world peace in the development. >> all right, everybody, thank you so much for your patience, due to the technical difficulties, president hu, once again, we appreciate your visit. we appreciate the dialogue and we're looking forward to having dinner with you later this evening. [speaking in chinese]

>> thank you, everybody. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> president obama and president hu jintao waking up to wrapping up a nearly hour-long news conference. a luncheon for the chinese president will be hosted by secretary of state hillary clinton. also attending will be the vice

president joe biden and dr. jill biden as well. we will be here for live coverage of the toast here at the luncheon. others in attendance include former secretaries of state madeleine albright and george shultz. we'll have this for your once the chinese president arrives. live coverage on c-span2. and killed and another view of china. congressman chris smith and frank wolf held a news conference yesterday on human rights in china. you are going to from former chinese political prisoners and human rights activist during this news conference. they talk about various issues including religious freedom and the rights of women and abuses in chinese labor camps. it runs an hour and 20 minutes. we will show you a good bit of it until the event at the state department officially gets underway. >> first of all, thank you for coming out this afternoon. my name is chris smith. i served as chairman of the

africa global human rights, global health subcommittee on the foreign affairs committee. i've held the position of the human rights chairman and several previous congresses, and i just, a little bit of background, i been in congress for 31 years. been to china many times come and personally chaired 27 hearings on human rights abuses by the people's republic of china over these many years. today we're here with some of the bravest and the best and brightest human rights defenders and for political prisoners of the chinese government to talk about hu jintao's china and to call in president obama to raise human rights issues publicly and vigorously during hu jintao's visit to washington. last month, president hu gave the world unmistakable proofs of its governance moral fear when he left the norwegian norville peace prize committee no choice but to place the peace prize on an empty chair. empty because president hu wouldn't let liu xiaobo, a

proponent of reform out of his prison cell, to receive the president as most of you know, president hu had his wife and friends placed under house arrest for fear that they would come to oslo to accept the prize in a country like china it is inconceivable that the security and the campaign unleashed against his supporters wasn't approved at the very top i hu jintao himself. president obama in 2009 as a piece price point has an obligation to call for liu xiaobo's release publicly and vigorously, especially during this visit. having led the members in nominated for the prize i was present in the oslo city hall for the anti-chair ceremony. along with former speaker pelosi and congressman david wu and virtually everyone who is here ready to speak. there is a strong bond between peace laureates.

over the years i've had the privilege of meeting many of them. i think the piece towards the idea that they could meet personally with and for a white house state dinner for politically responsible for others, not the men publicly for their release is unspeakable. i truly hope president obama's lives up to the award he received in 2009. i urge, we urge president obama to join us in speaking out for all those and china whose basic human rights are violated with impunity. for political prisoners such as taxes and we recently learned has again be savagely tortured especially in the last year. as well as wong cheung still under house arrest after serving years in prison for drawing the attention at the international media to the massive force abortion campaign.

and then for all who followed the practitioner, tortured, many have been killed. for the tibetan buddhist, for the christians and the underground house churches are routinely rounded up. when frank wolf and i were there are many trips, right before the olympics we tried to meet with house churches pastors. virtually all of them were rounded up, arrested, interrogated. i particularly want to making chinese women at this press conference. the chinese government come one child per couple policy with its attendant horrors of force abortion campaigns and rampant selection abortion is in scope and insist is the worst human rights abuses abuse, the worst ginger crime in the world today. few people outside china understand what a massive and cruel system of social control that one child policy entails. as u.s.-china commission summarized last year we are talking about massive

propaganda, mandatory monitoring of women's reproduction cycles, mandatory contraception, mandatory birth certificate. coercive fines for failure to comply and forced sterilization and abortion. the price a staggering. a woman in china today knows that one out of every -- that 10 times her and her husband salary could be taken by the government. if they have a child, that has not been approved by the government. we know that brothers and sisters are now illegal in china. a terrible, terrible thing, and get hu jintao as president of china overseas this terrible and draconian barbaric one child per couple policy. i have in my statement and i hope you'll read it, i will not be here today but a woman who testified last year after tom lantos human rights commission told her harrowing story, how she was brought into this clinic

with other women. she said it was like a lamb going to slaughter. her baby was ripped to shreds and she said it was a journey to hell. her story is every woman's story in the prc. no wonder 500 women per day, not per week, per month, per day commit suicide in china, the result of this policy. i would commend the rest of my statement, which is rather lengthy and detailed, but i would like to bring to you now some of these wonderful people. is frank wolf here yet? let me start off with geng he, the wife of a great leader from the government tortured and cause to disappear. her own escape from china, a 2000 track because her own children were being threatened by the chinese authorities is an amazing story in and of itself. she will be speaking on behalf of her husband.

>> [speaking in chinese] >> translator: i want to first thank congressman smith very much. i think everybody. -- i think everybody. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: i remember

doing a father's day speech. mr. obama said something like this. is courageous mother and grandmother raised him and gave him love and disciplines, and make him who he is today. but he still can't remember the regret and the boy he had when he was a child without a father. so he actually, and is void, no government were not individual canfield. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: today i want to tell mr. obama, president obama, that my daughter and my son

truly understand what you mean, what you meant. my 17 year-old daughter and my seven year-old son, they had been missing their father very much. this has been so painful for them. and maybe when you are missing your father, you know where he is. but my children don't know where their father is right now. maybe he is no longer alive, or maybe he's being tortured by many people right now in rural china. [speaking in chinese] >> translator: how many times because we don't know where gao zhisheng is, we have been crying at night? how many times because we thought about the torture that he may be experiencing and he has experienced with deep down

pain and heart broken. and how many times we just hugged together and cry and cry? [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: my families -- that's the most part and part of our family, and ever since my daughter was a 13 year old, she had been living with beatings and in so of the chinese communist party. she's a very proud and very strong growth. and the torture she can

tolerate, and she can endure. but those chinese policeman, the chinese communist party policemen insults are in front of all her classmates and in the public. that makes her almost collapsed. but at that time her father, gao zhisheng, can talk to her and can't come to her bigger after his been tortured himself, but he took time to comfort her. that make her feel a lot better. but after she left -- after her father left her, she becomes very hard to control of her own emotions. she actually became hospitalized during christmas time in 2009. and my seven year-old son -- >> we will lead a program now to take you live to the state department. secretary of state hillary clinton introducing the luncheon for chinese president hu jintao. >> such a distinguished gathering. vice president biden, doctor

biden and i welcome our special guest. especially president hu jintao and a distinguished member's of chinese delegation. i am delighted to have this opportunity to welcome so many members of congress and members of the president's cabinet, including secretary of defense gates, attorney general holder, secretary of agriculture vilsack, secretary of commerce lock, secretary of energy q., secretary of homeland security napolitano, and u.s. trade representative kirk. [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] >> as you can tell, we are eating lunch on the late. so we are anxious to provide some nourishment to our guests who have traveled so far to be with us. and it is my pleasure now to introduce my friend and our vice president, vice president biden. applaud -- [applause] >> thank you much madam secretary. it's an honor to welcome to guess from the chinese

delegation. [speaking in chinese] >> and i also know as my american colleagues today who worked so many successful administrations and so many successful administrations, have made such meaningful contribution to this relationship really to the man sitting to my right, doctor kissinger. [speaking in chinese] >> mr. president, i would like to thank you. [speaking in chinese]

>> i gladly accept and i'm looking forward to the vice president later when he comes here later this year. [speaking in chinese] >> as president obama? reminds me, i've been around a long time. [laughter] [speaking in chinese] >> i was here with other people in this room 32 years ago when vice president deng xiaoping led an historic visit to the united states, an event not unlike today's. [speaking in chinese]

>> i can literally recall how "newsweek" magazine described the visit. they said a turning point to the affairs of the modern world. [speaking in chinese] >> a few months later, i had the opportunity to be among the first members of congress and a delegation led by frank church and jacob javits to visit after that state dinner. [speaking in chinese] >> even back then there was a debate about whether a rising china was in the interest of the united states and the world. [speaking in chinese]

>> i believe in and i believe more convinced now that a rising china is an incredibly positive development for not only china, but the united states and the rest of the world. [speaking in chinese] >> i admit my view is bored out of my overwhelming confidence and the capability of the american people, and confidence that a prosperous china benefits not only the chinese citizens, but other nations as well. [speaking in chinese] >> the long concern i had been, and remains my concern, is an

instability in this relationship could arise only through mutual misunderstanding as to our respective countries intentions, and our domestic needs. [speaking in chinese] >> that's why i'm convinced, mr. president, that face-to-face bilateral meetings like this, the once you've had last night and earlier today will have again tonight are so important. [speaking in chinese] >> president hu noted earlier that this was his eighth

meeting, eight face-to-face meetings with president obama. into years. [speaking in chinese] >> and i think those meetings are very fruitful. our discussion so far, and since the beginning of the meetings with the president, have been straightforward and collegial. [speaking in chinese] >> and i'm actually convinced if we continue to work at it, there are exceptional opportunities for economic growth for peace in the world as a consequence of this relationship. [speaking in chinese] >> on the last day of that landmark visit 32 years ago,

vice premier offered an inspiring wish for the future. he said, and i quote, maybe chinese and american people live in friendship from generation to generation. and may they always safeguard world peace together. [speaking in chinese] >> i want to thank all those working so hard to realize this week, and i would like now to raise our glass in a toast, too many more generations of friendship and peace. [speaking in chinese] >> ladies and gentlemen,

president hu. [applause] [applause] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: vice president biden, mrs. biden, secretary of state hillary clinton, ladies and gentlemen, dear friends, i wish to thank vice president biden and mrs. biden and secretary clinton for hosting this luncheon for me and my colleagues. to begin with, i would also like to express sincere appreciation to all of you for your fighting commitment to china-u.s. relations. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: this year marks the 40th anniversary that china and united states we opened the door to each other. we cherish fond memories of the john young to and dr. kissinger's trip to visit -- china many years ago. the handshake between president nixon and chinese leaders and 39 years ago, and the -- these momentous events bore witness to the historical process in which the people of our two countries ended infringement and renewed friendship. [speaking in chinese]

[speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: china-u.s. relations have traveled an extraordinary path over four decades. in the beginning, leaders of our two countries would meet only once every few years. yet two years alone president obama and i have met eight times. 380 billion u.s. dollars last year. between 1949 and 1972, the total number of people who visited each other's country was less than 5000. today, 3 million tourists travel between the two countries every year, not to mention the 120,000 chinese students in the united states, and over 20,000 american students in china.

there was no sister city relationships at the start of our diplomatic relations your but now there are 36 pairs of sister provinces, stay calm and 16161 shares of sister cities. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: reviewing the past gives us a lot of food for thought. without this interest and without world peace, stability and prosperity, china-u.s. exchanges and cooperation would not have come this far. looking ahead, we have every reason to be confident about the

future of our relations. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: this morning i held talks with president obama. we had an exchange of views, china-u.s. relations and major international and regional issues of shared interest.

and reached broad agreement. the most important agreement we reached is that in the face of the new situation and the new challenges, china and the united states should come up with new ideas and measures to further promote the positive, cooperative, and comprehensive china-u.s. relationships, and work together to build a cooperative partnership based on mutual respect and mutual benefit. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: to this end we need to maintain and intensify communication through modern channels and at different levels at this will help us for mutual trust, remove misunderstandings in a timely fashion and extend

consensus. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: to sustain the momentum of high level interactions the two sides have agreed that vice president biden will pay a visit to china this year. we need to deepen bilateral proctor cooperation in economy and trade, energy, the environment, counterterrorism, nonproliferation, law enforcement, ann coulter and people and people exchanges.

resume and enhance military to military dialogue and exchanges, and actively new areas of cooperation such as clean energy and infrastructure development. that is maintained the foundation of our common interest. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: we need to better demonstrate the spirit of

mutual respect, respecting each other's choice of social systems and development, each other sovereignty, territory integrity, and development interests. we need to work together to play our role as responsible and constructive major countries, and make greater contribution to peace, stability, and prosperity in the asia-pacific region and to the world. and we need to encourage more chinese in america to get involved in the growth of our relations so as to solidify the social basis and public support for stronger china-u.s. relations. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese]

>> translator: the main areas of agreement that president obama and i have reached, i hope and believe that our agreement and its implementation land a strong emphasis to china-u.s. relationships and push it forward along the right path. [speaking in chinese] [speaking in chinese] >> translator: now, i would like to propose a toast. to the health of vice president and mrs. biden, to the health of secretary clinton, to the health of all our friends present, and to the friendships between our two peoples. >> cheers.

[applause] [applause] ♪ ♪ [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] >> part of our daylong coverage, the logical that the state department and the toast for chinese president hu jintao.

>> florida republican congressman elian ros-lehtinen chairs the house foreign affairs committee. from earlier today, it's about two hours. >> the briefing will be called to order. welcome to my fellow members of the committee, our distinguished panel of witnesses, honor champions of the struggle for human rights in china who are joining us today. ladies and gentlemen. there is an old saying that the chinese invoked when they wish to avoid political discourse of the central powers in beijing. the mountains are high, and the emperor is far away.erage ladies and gentlemen, this or there are no mountains to shield us, and as china's newest emperor has just landed inaw

house.gton and is nat the front lawn of the white house, the pressing issues which separate our countries need to beurgentld urgently addressed ree of those h will be the focus of today's briefing include security concerns, a human-rights, and how our trade imbalance and the chinese currency manipulation adversely impact our u.s. economy. when the cold war ended over two decades ago many in the west it seemed that the threat from communism had been buried with the rubble of the berlin wall, however, while america slapped an authoritarian china was on the rise. china became one of our biggest mortgage companies, holding over $900 billion of our international debt. in these past two decades western observers forgot that while freedom blossomed in eastern europe reform in china failed. china was led by a cynical group of leaders to sobered by the

teeeleven massacre and the marred by the blood of its victims were determined to go forward with economic but not political change. the china that embraced has fallen far short of the benign china which former decker to -- secretary of state spoke in the colony of freeze responsible stakeholder to read a response will say : as this -- reported allows the transshipment of north korean missile components to run. it open defiance of those u.n. sanctions which has the five member states -- a five member states it is duly bound to enforce. there is a responsible stakeholder declare that the south china sea is one of its core interests in open defiance of the navigational and territorial not -- writes of a

southeast asian neighbor? does a responsible stakeholder admonish the u.s. navy that it cannot operate in the yellow sea in the very waters where general douglas macarthur undertook the heroic landing which turned the tide of the war? would irresponsible stakeholder refer to the nobel peace prize committee as a bunch of clowns for awarding an honor to a distinguished chinese human rights advocate? would irresponsible stakeholder the arrests of the wife of a nobel peace prize winner as further respond -- retaliation for speaking the truth about the gross human rights violations in china? the u.s. took a big gamble when it voted for premier and normal trade relations for china over a decade ago in what some termed as the most important vote since world war ii. the vote was based upon what i see as a sadly mistaken belief that economic openings in a free-market reform would lead to

democracy, respect for the rule of law, and a full array of political and human rights for the chinese people. yet today, as we meet here, the research foundation estimates that they are close to 7 million people currently in chinese labor camps. it is as if the entire population of switzerland were being held behind barbed wire. the ruthless campaign against practitioners, a peaceful organization which promotes trade, compassion, and tolerance, has continued unabated for more than 11 years. i was proud to be the sponsor of a resolution in the last congress which received overwhelming bipartisan support addressing the persecution of fallon gone. the brutal denial of rights to people of tibet and the weaker people, the forced repatriation of number three and red fiji's

continues to draw the attention of concerned citizens throughout the world. the american people have also borne the brunt of china's mercantile trade policies which promote trade surpluses through cheap exports based upon an artificial depreciation of china's currency. jobs and american dollars have blown across the pacific to china for the past two decades as the american people have suffered high unemployment and a diminished standard of living. last fall i was pleased to be able to vote in favor of the currency reform for trade -- fair trade act which overwhelmingly passed the house. we are back with a new energy from a newly elected member who is determined to take back america's economy and are committed to a foreign policy the stance with our allies and hold accountable those to threaten our nation's security interests. and please deterrent to my distinguished ranking member for

this committee, mr. berman, for his remarks. >> thank you very much, madam chairman. chinese president hu jintao is in washington this week for a state visit. as we speak he and president obama our meeting at the white house. after an often tense year the two leaders will try to set the contours of the relationship for the immediate future. the u. s-china relationship, one of the most interconnected and complex in global affairs has major implications for the future of asia and the entire world. the challenge for the obama administration is to manage that relationship in no way that strengthens our cooperation with beijing in areas where we have shared interests while at the same time addressing the serious concerns we have regarding a number of china's policies. china is neither an allied nor

an enemy. it is both a competitor and a partner in foreign affairs, security, and economics. a key goal of our china policy must be to prioritize our myriad of global interests, identified those issues where we are most likely to positively change china's position and then find and use our leverage with the chinese to achieve those changes and accomplish our wider foreign-policy objectives. in my view our highest priority should be a rock. tougher sanctions on a ron was a significant diplomatic achievement for the obama administration. there is ample evidence that chinese entities continued to invest in the energy sector of iran. this helps them avoid the full impact of sanctions and facilitate the continued development of a nuclear weapons capability which turns the u.s.,

our allies in the middle east, and china, which is dependent on unstable sources of oil from the middle east. we must intensify our efforts to ensure china's full participation in the multilateral sanctions is aimed against -- against iran. the u.s. and china must always deep in our -- as north korea's economic lifeline beijing holds considerable leverage over perrier incoming yet it has been too slow to make it clear to the number three that security and respect can be attained only by giving up its nuclear weapons and refraining from other aggressive behavior. the promotion of human rights and political freedom is a central goal of american foreign policy. these universal values must remain essential focus of our relationship with china appears record in this area remains

deplorable. moreover those values are in china's self-interest, both its international image and in its economic growth are dependent upon developing a society based on the rule of law. in the sphere of economic and trade one area of particular concern is china's theft of intellectual property and its indigenous innovation policy. in addition to compliance with the recent wto decision, china must do more to stop the piracy and counterfeiting that occurs openly on streetcorners and over the internet and step up its enforcement efforts. the crossroads we currently face and the u.s.-china relations present less of a choice for the united states and more of the toys for china. the obama administration has articulated a pragmatic policy and in several key areas the demonstration has said some success. there is no sign that china has

made a fundamental decision to change its decision of leveraging with heightened political control and military modernization with regional and extra regional power projection. at the same time and so letting china as much as possible from outside influences. as much as the rest of the world looks to china to play a constructive role it is not clear that china wants to play a positive influence beyond its borders. i look forward very much to hearing testimony from all of our witnesses today, and i yield back. >> thank you very much. now live would like to yield three minutes to its chairman designate of the subcommittee on asia and the pacific. >> thank you, madam chairman for calling this important briefing, i strongly believe that china is one of the greatest foreign

policy challenges we must face in this century. china's wait in the global economy cannot be ignored. that nation's rapid modernization represents both opportunity and apparel for america. as chairman designate of the subcommittee on the asian-pacific i am keenly aware of the challenges our nation faces when it comes to dealing with china. as experience has shown signs as unfair trade practices including currency manipulation, illegal subsidies and lax enforcement of intellectual property law make it very difficult for the hard-working people of america to compete on a level playing field that benefits this relationship. american manufacturers have been hurt most by this unbalanced relationship. manufacturing is the lifeblood of the 16th congressional district of the illinois, which i represent. our congressional district as summer between 142500 factories supporting more than 51,000

jobs. 24 percent of value added manufacturing in our congressional district represents exports. it is one of the most dense areas in terms of manufacturing base and one of the most exporting congressional districts in the country. these hard-working men and women want to know what their government is doing to enforce trade laws with china and preserve america's industrial base bag. i hope our distinguished witnesses will focus their remarks on what the administration is doing and what it can do to urge the chinese government to follow the rules. very little has been done in the past several years. in my experience the chinese government is capable of stopping violators when they see it is in their interests to do so. so many americans are out of court. now is the time for this of ministration to work with congress to hold generous

possible and give american manufacturers a chance to compete with china on a level playing field so that manufacturers can create jobs. madame chairwoman, i commend you for giving the american people a well-deserved voice and a look forward to the testimony of our witnesses. >> thank you very much. but we would be recognizing the ranking member designate, but he is not present. we will proceed with the testimony. we are pleased to have as our witnesses a wonderful panel. thank you. we are pleased to welcome mr. larry wortzel to today's briefing. larry is a commissioner on the u.s.-china economic and security review commission appointed by speaker banner. among his many qualifications he served two tours of duty as a military attache of the american embassy in china and retired from the army with the rank of colonel. thank you for a briefing yesterday. also with us is gordon chang, currently a columnist at forbes.

he practiced law in china and hong kong for nearly 20 years and has written extensively on sat and wrote rea. we are grateful to have him here today as he is a much sought after expert on the future of china's economy. but if mr. yang jianli is the founder and president of initiatives for china. he was imprisoned in china following an outcry by congress and others for his release he was freed in april of 2007. immediately following his return to the u.s. he formed initiatives for china, a pro-democracy committee that is committed to peaceful transition to democracy in china. leslie, mr. robert sutter to has been a visiting professor of asian studies at the school of porn services in georgetown university since 2001. in addition to his full-time position mr. center teaches regularly as an adjunct

professor of asian studies in the elliott school of its financial affairs, george washington university. he has extensive government career in congressional research service and other u.s. federal agencies that lasted 33 years. we will begin with mr. larry wortzel. i'm sorry that i'm not so great with the pronunciations, but look at my name. i don't get too picky. i will be rather ruthless with the five minutes, so please confine yourself to five minutes. larry, you are recognized. thank you. >> chairman, ros-lehtinen, ranking member berman, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to address you today. that use at present are my own informed by my service in the u.s. army, on the u.s.-china security and review commission and my own research. in late 2004 chinese communist party chairman ileana

ros-lehtinen set out a new set of missions for the people's liberation army. these new historic missions provide the basis for china's future defense research and weapons acquisition plans. they also set the stage for a more assertive use of the armed forces inside and outside of asia in pursuit of expanding national interest. the pl a military modernization efforts provide the means for the armed forces to fill these new missions. china's military modernization efforts are comprehensive, affecting all the domains of war including space and cyber operations. in recent years china has acquired advanced surface ships and submarines to modern combat aircraft, ballistic and cruise missiles, and advanced command and control systems that tie everything together. in addition, the commander recently stated that china will

field a ballistic missile a potential threat against u.s. aircraft carriers in the region's. the pla is still the fallback force of repression for the communist party against the populist. the combination of these new missions and means to carry them out has brought about changes in china's military operation. traditionally the pla focused on domestic response and local contingencies. now is a military with a wider range of missions and the activities. the dispatch of chinese naval vessels in support of anti piracy operations of africa is one example. china's national interests are global, and the pla is becoming a force capable of acting beyond china's periphery. a more capable military accompanies a more assertive chinese foreign policy. this can be seen in china's recent provocative activities concerning its disputed territorial claims in the south

and east tennessee's and in the economic zone. china's military capabilities also stoke beijing's competence. china's him stridently complained about operations and the western pacific. beijing failed to condemn north korean attacks on south korea and strongly objected to a joint military exercises in the region between the united states and south korea. in military operations beijing continues to circumscribe the range of discussions between china and the u.s. refusing to address strategic issues such s cyber warfare and space operations. i'm pleased to see that secretary gates get to visit the second until record and there was some discussion of nuclear doctrine during his visit. despite his noticeable -- a noticeable improvement in relations across the taiwan strait beijing continues to

insist on the right to use force should it interprets taiwan's activities as moving toward independence. across straight military balance increasingly favoring china, and beijing has deployed over 1100 short-range ballistic missiles opposite the island. in my view taiwan's most pressing need is for new or modernized fighter aircraft. china continues arms sales and support to international pariah states such as north korea, burma, and ron. in addition food and energy bad foreign investment that china provides to north korea indirectly enables pyongyang to continue its nuclear efforts, it shows its economic power by a stoppage by a supplier of rare earth minerals to japan and it was unhappy with japanese policy. madam chairman, members of the

committee, the key for the opportunity to do it addressee today. i look forward to your questions. >> they do so very much and take you for the time limit. we appreciate your time. five minutes please. >> chairman ros-lehtinen, remember berman, distinguished members of the commission, thank you for the opportunity to be here today. the dominant narrative in the >> china has the upper hand when it comes to the united states, and that's why president obama is hosting a state visit for the chinese president. do they really have the upper hand? i think most americans misperceive the economic relationship between the united states and china, and today, it like to comment on three of those misperceptions. first of all, everybody says china is decreasing its dependence on the united states. well, china has an economy geared to selling things to us.

it is dependent on exports, and its export sector is reliant on sales to the united states. last year when all the statistics are in, i think we'll see that more than 140% of china's overall trade surplus related to sales to the united states. that's up from an already stupendous 91.1% in 2008. the trade dependence gives us leverage because china is not a free trader. they accumulated surpluses because of queer violations under the obligations of the world trade organization. second, everybody says china's -- our debt provides a weapon that the chinese can use against us. since august 2007, the chinese talked in public about using debt as a weapon, and, of course, they call it appropriately the nuclear

option. well, china has used the -- has not used the nuclear option and the reason is because they know their attack plan won't work. let's think about the worst possible scenario. they drop our debt at the same time. think about how the global markets operate. if they do that, they have to buy something. they have to buy things in pounds, euros, and yen. that sends currencies in values through the ceilings and tokyo has to go in the market to rebalance their currencies, in other words, to bring the currencies back down in value, and the only way to do that is to buy dollars. there would be turmoil in the global markets, but it would not last long, maybe a few weeks or a calendar quarter at the most. after this, we have debt held by

our friends rather than a potential enemy. the global markets are deep and can handle everything, although i don't think the united states should be accumulating debts and certainly i don't want the chinese to hold it, but ultimately, it doesn't give them a weapon. third, the currency manipulation is not the sole cause of america's trade deficit. well, of course that's right because there's a number of reasons that relate to our trade deficit, but china's debt manipulation is an important reason. due to the manipulation of currency, it intervenes in the markets every day. the value to the u.s. dollar is 0-30%. maybe 30% is a good estimate for today. a discount of that magnitude is significant. when i practiced law in asia, many clients were u.s. manufacturers, and i watched my clients haggle for days over

pennys on unit prices. that's how important price is, so it's counterintuitive to think that a disp count of 30-40%, and that's what we're talking about would not have an effect on our trade deficit, but you don't have to take my word for it. china's top economic officer in china came to the united states last september and talked about the possibility of "countless chinese enterprises going bankrupt and countless chinese workers becoming unemployed if the rem b increased in value." well, if that's what it does to china's manufacturers and employees, then what do you think it does to ours? nonetheless, many economists say, well, you know, you shouldn't do this currency bill, hr2378 that passed the house. i think we certainly need to do

that. china won't change its destructive practices if we appeal to their self-interests which is what the bush and obama administrations were doing. i think we have to apply pressure. >> thank you mr. chairman chang. thank you so much. mr. yang. >> thank you your excellency. thank you for allowing me to testify on the relationship between u.s. and china that must be addressed. it is the matter of how they treat events. china is the country with the most prisoner functions in the world including the nobel peace prize winner. if not tens of thousands of prisoners' conscious who got longest prison term, life imprisonment. his two children, a son and

daughter are being with us today. in addition to the official statement, it is a practically public knowledge that in china there exists dozens of jails run by government of various levels. this prison taking numerous petition nears arbitrarily. going beyond these, there's three new types of measures to control that the chinese authorities have been increasingly using in the pass of three years. number one, direct violence. the direct violence against human rights activists and the petitioners increased in recent years. the people who have been doing this are local policemen or men

hired by police. in some cases they are government officials that are also involved. number two, house arrest. in recent years, house arrest has become more and more widely used as a means for limiting disdense and their family. there are two typical examples. as the wife of the human right's lawyer, he was placed under house arrest and not allowed to leave the house. after serving four years in the three months in prison last september, the entire family has been put under house arrest. the chins, the entire family, have been cut off from all contact with the world. those who tried to visit them were badly beaten. the wife has been put under house arrest ever since october

8 of last year when her husband won the 2010 peace prize. her communication to reach out has been completely cut off since october 20 of last year. number three, disappearances. i urge you to pay attention to the disappearance to the chinese citizens as a result of the governments and warranted actions. the most notorious case is gao. he has not been heard from since last april after repeatedly and severely being tortured, and his wife is here with us today. another important case is that o mongolian scholar who was eared in september of 1995 for

peaceful assemblies for the region. he was sent to 15 years in jail. his sentence was set to end september 10 last year, but a few days before that, the chinese authorities took his wife and son. he was not seen getting out of prison, and today the entire family has not been heard from. around the time of nobel peace ceremony, more than 100 friends, family, and supporters, including the chairman and her husband were put under house arrest or made missing. coming back to the iris of that offset. the question is why should china's treatment of its citizens be an important concern for u.s. foreign policy with china? they have an analysis of and answers to this question, and

some people can denounce this question as irrelevant, but i just want to echo the question from the "wall street journal" article last monday. a rising power that fails to honor commitments to its own people -- >> thank you mr. chairman yang. >> fulfill commitments to other nations -- >> good gee, thank you. >> the u.s. relationship with the people's republic of china has been troubled throughout its twisted history. important areas of converging interests are accompanied by important areas of differenceses. the relationship has become complicated, and it's the most important bilateral relationship today. a pattern to advance commonground and manage differences provail throughout

most of the george bush administration. he showed a course with china in pursuing a path and preserving american interests and dealing effectively with challenges posed by rising chinese influence and power. a strong theme in president obama's initial foreign policy was to seek cooperation of other world powers including china to deal with salient international concerns. he worked hard at this, but found the chinese leaders offered only limited cooperation on issues like climate change and others. more worrisome were the challenges the chinese posed for the obama government. this is well-documented by my colleague mr. wortz erk l and a hard line on armed sales to

taiwan and other issues. they reacted calmly and firmly on what were called these tests that were manifestations by china. it gave no ground on any of the chinese demands. it also found chinese assertive bs with the united states and neighboring countries over varying issues damaged china's efforts to portray a benign image in asia. these images become more active and working with the united states and encouraging our presence in the asia pacific. it was a decline in the position of the asia pacific and the rise in the position of the united states. meanwhile, the obama government made clear to the chinese government and to the world that the united states is prepared to undertake military measures needed to deal with the build up of chinese forces targeting americans and american interests in the asia-pacific. it also helped to move china to

curve the prop propagation by warning that the united states viewed north korea ooze nuclear weapon development as a direct threat to the united states. over the past few months, china tried to ease differences with the united states leading up to the visit of the president. there's a number of different things in calming the united states and china in the various areas of differences. looking out, president obama wants to pursue closer engagement of china as part of the overall reengagement with the asia-pacific. it made clear they will not give in to chinese assertiveness or pressure and will respond to such actions with appropriate military or other means. given the recent assertiveness, it appears less certain they

share president obama's interest in reengagement. on the other hand, the recent assertiveness proven much more costly in assertiveness. against this background, it seems likely that prevailing circumstances will preserve and reenforce the positive e quale librium in the united states for three reasons. first, both administrations seek benefit from positive engagement in various areas. second, both administrations see that the two powers have become so interdependent that emphasizing the negatives in their relationship will hurt the other side, but also will hurt them. third, both leaderships are preoccupied with a long list of or jement domestic -- urgent dmes ceo and foreign priorities. one the last thing they seek is a serious confrontation in relations with one another. thank you for your attention and

look forward to your questions. >> thank you to the pam and i'll recognize you for questions in order of seniority for those of you in your seats when the gavel fell and in order of arrival after the briefing began. i'd like to yield my 5 minutes for questions and answers to congresswoman burkel of new york. you are recognized for 5 minutes. >> thank you. i'll direct my questions to kernel wortzel. thank you for your service. china facilitated the transportation of missile parts of north korea cargo flight to iran from beijing's airport. how involved with chinese officials and companies for weapon procurement and for their

nuclear programs? >> congressman, they are -- >> can you push the button, put the microphone closer to your mouth. thank you. >> they are very heavily involved. they accept those transshipments through north korea and china. they facilitate them. those things don't happen without the concurrence of central authorities in the provinces and from the national air control system. they have their own customs people so they are well aware of it and could stop it. they refused to participate in the reparations security initiative that would have the effect of at least helping to control north korean proliferation. i mean, they simply have very different interests in iran than

we do, and i would argue that one of their interests is frustrating united states policy and creating a second potential military competitor that is at least a barb down in that part of the world, that limits what we can do. that means we have to be a lot more careful in how we act. they've sold -- everything that falls below the limits of the missile technology control regime, but they have sold short range missiles. they have sold cruise missiles, antiaircraft missiles, so they are not doing a thing to reduce the potential level of violence in that region. >> thank you very much.

the gentle lady yields back. i'd like to recognize the ranking member for 5 minutes. >> thank you very much, madam chairman, and i'd like to give mr. chang's response and also perhaps hear from mr. wortzel and sotter on the interesting thesis that mr. chang had which essentially looking at the issue of our debt obligations to china and our trade deficit as perhaps more our leverage than china's leverage, and to ask you to play that out a little longer. to what extent are you suggesting we use that leverage and whether it's in counter

duties or in passing legislation that the house passed last year, and for what policy purposes should they be restricted to persuading and pushing china to live within the wto ground rules, or should they be utilized to achieve broader geo political questions. that's one question. i'll ask them all right now. the second question is 15-20 years ago there was a notion in its heart of hearts, china liked american presence in the western pacific. that was a lot better for them than japan reconsidering its traditional military policy, thinking about its own nuclear

weapons, more recently what south korea might decide to do that in a way there was a beneficial effect. is that just out the window now? is the chinese military modernization so strong now, they are not concerned about that and they are truly seeking to have us reverse a position we've had since the end of world war ii, and add to that if either robert or larry would do it, this notion that this weekend this suspect a visit of the most recent emperor of china that there's a people's liberation army out there that are starting to do their own things without necessarily under the direct direction of the leadership of the communist party. is there anything to a couple of those stories that emerged recently? finally, if we can get it, i don't know if there's time, mr. yang, you were eloquent

regarding the political disappearances and abuse and what goes on inside china, but what you were not able to get into is how do you think -- what role can we play in affecting and changing that? i do worry there's not time for that last question, but go ahead. >> first of all, i'd like to thank the congressman for being polite in the characterize of my views. most people think i'm wrong, but you were nice in saying so. [laughter] i think there's a couple things we need to do. we need less diplomacy. we are feeding china a since of self-importance. we don't need new groaments on matters, but let's not negotiate a new deal. we have tons of deals with the chinese. we just need to enforce them vigorously taking cases to the

wto more quickly and also because of the real problem that china does pose to american manufacturers as i heard earlier, i think we need to do a little bit of self-help, hr2378, in other words, posing penalties at an early stage for chinese subsidies. of course, currency manipulation is one. >> you want to limit it to the economic issues, the currency violation, violation of trade rules, the subsidies, not to larger geopolitical issues. there's just 30 seconds. real quickly from mr. wortzel and mr. sutton. >> it is under the control of the committee of the chinese communist party and the central military commission. i think china is ambivalent of

the u.s. presence. they are happy the deterrence restraining japan from becoming 5 nuclear power, butments a more -- but wants a more specific role in the pacific -- >> thank you. we'll continue with that at a later time. i'd like to recognize as has been pointed out the chinese of human rights disdense and the audience representing a cross section of oppressed groups inside china including representatives of the wife of mr. gao, one of several american citizens unjustly imprisoned by the chinese regime, and now i'm pleased to recognize mr. smith, the chairman designate of the subcommittee on human rights and health for 5 minutes. >> thank you. ladies and gentlemen, beside being the jailer of the 2010

nobel peace prize winner, we have who ask who is jintoa. he was the iron fist and there were eyewitness accounts of children pummeled to death in the murder of hundreds of people from tibet. he is in a dictatorship, and he's responsible for the detention and torture of millions of peaceful chinese. he spent two decades there, and he knows what happens there. torture, cattle prods put under the armpits and genitals. he presides over that sickness and perversity. they hunt down christians,

muslims, and buddhists, and beats them to death. they are massively being killed in china today. president hu is responsible for the barbaric and really the worse violation of women's rights in my opinion ever. the one child per couple policy that relies on forced abortion to achieve goals. in president hu's china, brothers and sisters are illegal. anybody who has a sibling in china, you're only allowed one. the effect of this policy, there are 100 million missing girls in china. most of them have been silent about this terrible gendercide directed against little girls. let me ask lee who has been an

outspoken leader on human rights. it seems when a man comes in, press gives him a free pass. i ask the press to ask the hard questions, not just the generic questions about human rights, but ask specifics about what is happening to the prisoners and gao whose wife is with us today, missing who has been repeateddedly tortured and the misuse and terrible burden they put on the children. ask the tough questions to the press and to president obama and secretary clinton, please be specific in your conversation with hu. just a glossing over of we talked about human rights, something on a list of talking points simply won't cut it. be specific and press this man who i believe ought to be at the hague being held to account for crimes rather than being treated

with a state dinner. i ask mr. jonglee please. >> microphone please -- >> i think the u.s. should at least -- the u.s. government can do and should do is to raise the specific cases in meetings and their counterparts. this meeting, for example, if obama really raises the cases, it works. it works in my case, and will continue to work for other cases, and look at the practice of u.s. in the past two years. the garment of belief that the private talking will work more effectively, but look at the record. the u.s. government has not been

successful in the past two years in helping get any of the prisoners out of the prison, so we have to do it -- we have to apply pressure raising specific cases both privately and publicly, and that's the least the u.s. government can do and should do, and another way to do it to engage with chinese democracy movement directly, and now we have recognized the leadership. we have a shared principle that is enshrined and the democracy movement is viable in china so engagement with china comes apart that if we engage with the people with the democracy movement. thank you. >> you emphasized public and not just private. >> yes. >> the time has expired. i'm pleased to recognize

mr. payne, the member of the subcommittee on global health and human rights for 5 minutes. >> thank you very much. i'd like to focus my line of question on china's economic interest in africa and the impact of chinese engagement for government, economies, and human rights across the continue innocent. what we recognized today began in 1990s and investment grew by 700%. accompanying this expansion was the wave of chinese migrants, some 750,000 in 2007 who live in africa now, mainly construction mining workers, oil workers, and private traders, but not an expansion of the africa middle class that would normally accompany infrastructure development. there's been complex and varied reactions among analysts

regarding the implications of china ease involvement in africa. there's guarded on optimism over threats to western interests. i'd like to get your thoughts on the overall scope of china's growing ties with africa, what are the main political and economic goals, what are the main potential benefits or draw backs of africa with the ties, and also in what ways have ties with the african government have bad effects on human rights and the priorities in china. they've had a meeting where 43 countries were invited, 42 showed up, on the one hand they have opened fire on workers who protested about poor working conditions in zambia. they wounded 11 or 12 of them,

but on the other hand, they give 4,000 scholarships a year to african students, and that may to indoctrinate them to china. maybe you can take that. >> >> thank you very much, congressman. this is a very important and complicated issue. i think the driving force of china's high profile in africa is somewhat desperate in a way. they need resources, and so what you find is a highly competitive environment where companies of china are in africa getting resources in a way that the government is sort of lagging behind the companies as they search and get the resources. the development is such that for the chinese who em prove their gdp, they have to use four times the level of resources used in the united states for the same amount of improvement. they need stuff. they are all over africa getting

the material they really need to promote their domestic development. at the same time, china is full of companies looking to sell things, and they want a balanced trade with africa, and they have one because the chinese enterprises are building things throughout africa, selling things, and these migrants went to africa to sell these things. it's an understandable way to keep a balanced relationship that the chinese seek with africa. if you i understand it this way, you can see the driving force isn't really to control africa. it's really to get the stuff and to make money at the same time, and there's several good books on this. if you're interested in this topic as i'm sure you are, so the upshot of the u.s. behavior vis-a-vis of the united states is there and they are out to get money. there is a collateral damage if you will. there's a variety of things not

being done. i'm not sure the people who shot these people in zambia, i think it may have been guards of some sort. >> thank you for the question. i agree with mr. sutter. i believe these are people out of the pla working for government controlled security companies, and we've done work on that in our studies. >> in ethiopia, they were soldiers killed by the ols. >> they were u.n. peacekeepers, united nations peacekeepers. i'll look at that. >> all right. they were there protecting the oil reserves. >> i'll have to look at that. i may be incorrect. china's interested in the extraction of resources. they don't care about human rights in those countries, and they bring in their own labor

and transfer no jobs whatsoever to the african citizens, and that's the major dissatisfaction in africa. >> the gentleman's time expired. i recognize the chairman designate of the subcommittee on oversite and up vest gageses for -- investigations for five minutes. >> thank you, and also thank thank you for having this hearing at this moment because we have to understand that as we speak, our country is officially welcoming president hu as if he had the same stature and acceptability here as a democratic leader. we welcome him the same as we do countries that are democratic and respect human rights. this is wrong. we should not be granting a mons rows a regime involved with the worst human rights abuser and welcome him to the white house

with respect. now, what does that do to the people in china who are only hope for a peaceful future with a large chunk of humanity? the people of china are america's greatest allies, the people of china who want democracy, who want to respect human rights and are looking forward to a more humane system of peace with the world. those are our allies. what are we doing to them when we welcome their oppressor, their murder,s murder of their children, here to the united states with such respect? as we look at this visit with president hu, if our government, if our president follows suit the way our former presidents have as well, this is not just president obama, we are doing a great disservice not only to the people of china and to our future for the cause of peace, but a great disservice to the

american people because what's happening? we have for three decades leaned over backwards for this regime. we permitted the regime in china a human rights abusing regime to have trade benefits that we wouldn't give to democratic countries. they have transfers with investments, they get away with murder economically as well as in the area of human rights. well, these are things we've got to call them to task for, or our situation will continue to worsen. we are vulnerable to a regime that was weak 30 or 40 years ago. we are vulnerable to them. if we do not change our way of dealing with that regime, they will destroy the peace of the world, and we will be to blame for that not only the repression of their own people. i'd like to ask particular, china now not only have a more peaceful stand to the rest of the world, we see claims slowly

but surely, more claims coming out. china is making claims in the pacific that threaten korea, japan, and the philippines, and commerce as well throughout that area. there's climbs against india and vote yom, and frankly our russian friends will wake up and find out they are partners with a country that means them great harm and is willing to take aware their territory. do you see any major threat to the peace of the world and the expanding territorial claims of china? >> first of all, i think it's ironic that while china is brutally o prosing, the chinese government is fusing the united states at our universities that

are spreading this culture. with respect to their security claims, as they get stronger militarily, they are simply becoming more forceful in the region and they are expanding their claims, and that affects all the countries in southeast asia and all the countries on their prief yal. they took forceful stands on ensuring the peaceful revolution of the peaceful claims in the east china sea. i think it's very important that our military works with and backs up japan even though we don't take a position on the claims. >> let me just note that this

government which we have bolstered with policies we need would make the country stronger. that strategy has not worked, and this country is now the head of an alliance of rogue nations that threaten the peace and freedom of the entire world. >> the time expired. i'd like to recognize mr. seris of new jersey. >> i'm always fascinated by the statement that the chinese simply have different interests in many parts of the world that we do. i think that that hides an awful lot. i do think the chinese have a hidden agenda, and their agenda

in my eyes is more like world domination. somehow they want to go back to 2,000 years ago, and i think they never lost that. we seem to help them in their goals. they just fill the void. take north korea for example. they do nothing. they do nothing and use north korea for the benefit. the relationship with iran. all they do is just boost iran, and everywhere we seem to have a void, they are there. i look at south america, and i see south america and many businesses. i look at what they do in africa, the way they use in africa. i don't know.

we just don't seem to get it. i was just wondering, you know, you have been a spokesman for human rights and the abuses that have gone on in china. do you still fear for your life or your family's life back home? >> yes. >> you still do after all these years? some of the members that are here today for some of the other groups, i assume they fear for their families as they speak up against this, you know, this monster that is developing before our eyes. i was wondering if you can comment on that. do you get threats back home? >> yes, my family members in china need to report to the authorities on the regular basis. >> they have to report to the authorities on a regular basis? >> yes. that's why i minimize my correspondence to them to minimize trouble to them.

i think many of my colleagues and their family members are being with us today, and i want to emphasize that. the chinese -- china has the largest communist system in the whole world, and it is still able to put anybody in prison, disappear anybody if it determined to do so. this government if not responsive to its own people, treat its own people harshly. this kind of a garment will do any good in the rest of the world, so we have to keep asking this question once and once again, so when we come to the foreign policies, we cannot forget these components and i often hear many people in this country talking about cold war

mentality. when we hear the word cold war, they fear. i don't understand, but my commonty we cannot simply explain a way the component which can be described as cold war in the relationship between u.s. and the china. look at u.s. operating with china, japan, south korea, taiwan, these countries are democratic, and these two countries, u.s. and china, have fundamentally conflicting values which you just cannot explain away. it will not go away. it will be here in the decades to come. there's a component that can be called cold war, and the only difference is that u.s. and china has economic interdependence.

that's the difference. cold war has not. u.s. has no such close economic relationship with former soviet union and eastern europe, but that's the only different element, but i echo mr. gordon chang. there's something this this country that china always has the upper hand in economic relations with the u.s.. >> the gentleman's time expired. thank you. >> thank you. >> i recognize the chairman designate on the subcommittee of asia and the pacific. >> thank you. as i mentioned in my opening statement, manufacturing is the backbone of our economy in northern illinois. this question is for mr. chang, but others on the panel are obviously welcome to answer. i spend many of my time working with numerous, small, and medium

sized manufacturers that have been harmed by china. most is intellectual property and piracy which is the case of the water company in my direct. we engaged chinese agency and ask them to intervene and actually got a favorable ruling in the chinese courts on that issue. how many companies can pick up the phone and go to the congressman to get a direct intervention on an obvious ip violation? other times the problem is more complicated such as the case of the office paper shredder maker, the number one paper shredder maker in this country. they are fighting a fierce battle where they were locked out, inventory stolen, machine tools, business practices, and ip, and if you're big, you can

succeed, but the small and medium sized manufacturers are having a difficult time. how do we encourage the national prevention of local governments in china to enforce the law and is there a better way of dealing with china? i guess that's an easy question. >> right, and i think the important thing that we have to do is start, as i said, less diplomacy in a way, but i also think that we need to follow the approach of hr2378 which is really to impose penalties whenever we see there are violations of china's trade obligations because this gives us immediate relief. if you talk about the problems of small manufacturers, they can't wait for the three or four years it takes to get through the dispute revolution mechanism of the world trade organization. that is just not a practical remedy for them, and that's why i think we need legislation

which is really tough because when we do that, the chinese understand. they react to pressure, and this really is about the only way we can do it in terms of saving small manufacturers because their plight is not only important, but urgent. >> sometimes it's like whack-a-mole. i've testified on recreational and automobile tires and once was on a surge and the other was dumping on illegal subsidies. you get the remedies, and they come back again, and they do the same thing under a different name. it's over and over and over again. these companies spend fortunes on attorney fees to protect their property. can't there be a mechanism that our government can have for lack of a better word, an 800-number for people who are the objects

of piracy that simply can't afford attorneys to do the battle for them? >> we could do that in many ways. that would involve beefing up the commercial sections in beijing, but also in the department of commerce. it needs to be put up with a higher priority. normally what happens in trade disputes is there's a litigation and united states really relies on injured parties to bring their case and to prosecute it. i think that you're suggestion is an excellent one which is really have the government be proactive and bring all sorts of proceedings both internally in the united states and to the wto because that's the only way we can do it. we need to speed up the procress because time is critical. >> i would look forward to meeting you in my office and put

heads together to come up with a remedy there. >> i'll be there. >> thank you very much. i yield back my time. thank you very much >> proud to recognize rhode island and welcome to our committee, sir. >> thank you and welcome the opportunity to ask questions. my questions relate to the impact of our relationship of china on american manufacturing, and i know -- i think it's been clear to most of us that the chinese have really willfully been weak in addressing the theft of intellectual property, and it's presenting problems for american businesses. i want to hear your thoughts on what actions we might take to really protect american businesses from this theft of intellectual property, the seizing of assets in joint venture, and the refusal to meet contractable obligations, and in relation, just your thoughts on what mechanisms we have to the

opportunities that exist for the production development of renewable energy. i know there's a recent complaint against the chinese subsidy policy which the administration contends favored chinese producers of wind, wind equipment, and there's examples where those con conflicts have been resolved on commerce and trade. in answering that, i'm wondering whether you think that's an effective place for resolution an if there's changes that will help american manufacturers to be sure we're enforcing in every way policies that protect american manufacturers and the jobs connected to those manufacturers. >> there's two problems. one is chinese internal roles that president hu has been pushing. those force the transfer of american intellectual property to joint venture companies for anyone who wants to sell to

government or state enterprises, and that is really an issue for the united states itself in its discussions with china. the obama administration put this up at a higher priority because it is so important, and i think it's just a question of these need to be discussed all the time. the other point which you raised is just the outright theft. this is extremely difficult because you can't litigate in a chinese court because the courts are controlled by parties and local interests that have really been the culprits, and so the only way the united states can deal with this issue really is to have the commercial section in the embassy and in the various consolates, make it known to both national authorities that this is a case which is of importance to the united states which often times is sending the ambassador or the general to a court case to show the presence of washington and its importance to us, but this is extremely very difficult.

>> do you have anything to add? >> i would agree that you have to keep the pressure on. it has to cost the chinese. i think you are advocating an approach. you're pushing on an opening door with the obama administration it seems to me. listening to the secretary of commerce and sdr, they want to do this kind of thing. maybe they need more people, maybe they need some funding from the congress to help in this regard, but i think there's a broad sentiment in the obama government that this should be done, just what he was saying, you need case by case, work the issues, you need to pressure in a way that's credible and i think that high level attention to it with officials is a way to go, and as i say, this is going to win some support i think. >> thank you very much. i yield back the remaining

time. >> thank you for that. recognize mr. rivera of florida for 5 minutes. >> thank you very much. i'm going to ask about two island nations, cuba and taiwan. one, an island prison, and the other is democracy surrounded by a fortress of tyranny. we'll start with cuba. given china's involvement, and this question i'll offer to dr. wortzel. given china's involvement in cuba, i wonder if you could give us your thoughts as to china's geopolitical intentions in cuba perhaps as establishing another beachhead in latin america generally, and specifically what you pleef china -- believe china is up to in regard to oil drilling, giving

information that has been published regarding the company involved in this oil drilling also having a nexus with iran, so the geopolitical interests in cuba and specifically with regard to oil drilling. >> thanks for the question. first of all, china has taken over as i understand it the entire signals intercept complex that the soviet union had in cuba, so there is without question a military and intelligence purpose for their relationship. i think part of it is also support for another socialist state and i think you can link to venezuela and support there

and the support in cuba and for cuba. with respect to resources, i think they would be very happy to extract resources any way they could get it, but if you look at the visits of chinese military leaders and political leaders, i always ask myself why the head of china's strategic rocket forces, the second artillery is visiting cuba. we're not going to be in another cuban missile crisis, but there's certainly something to a military relationship going on there and the same goes with venezuela. in some cases, their relationships in central measuring and latin america are related to diplomatic relations with taiwan, and they have managed to wean a couple countries away from recognition

that taiwan in recognition to china, and that's part of it. i think it's fair to say as i sum it up that they sure don't recognize the monroe doctrine. >> thank you very much. with respect to taiwan and directing this to mr. chang, and the issue of the f-16's and this administration's previous decisions on prolonging the f-16s to taiwan and your perspective on the fulfillment of the act. >> i would love to talk about this topic, but i'm sitting next to the world's expert. >> absolutely. you can yield it. >> the debate is f-16 cd with longer range and could be used

for deeper strikes inside china if the military chose to do that rather than modernizing. when i talk to aviation engineers, they think you can take the ab, put in brand new aveonics, new equipment, it needs new refrigeration to handle that, and then they would have a very, very capable aircraft. it's not one that would necessarily satisfy the taiwan legislature, and there would still be a fight over the programming for the weapon systems in the aveonics. they will want program codes. we're not going to transfer them. we never do. if they need it, if you made the decision, i don't think there's any guarantee that they would accept the way we make it, and then there's the political cost of approving a brand new system that china would object to. they're going to object to no

matter what we do, but they need the aircraft, and they need that need addressed. >> okay. thank you. >> recognizing mr. connelly of west virginia. welcome back, my friend. >> thank you so much, and thank you for your service. i want to thank the panel and particularly bob sutter. we used to work together when i was on the foreign relations committee and great to see you on the other side of the table. let me ask you, bob, understanding serious, serious human rights issues in china and lots of other issues that we are concerned about that have been enumerated here, in your view given the fact that since richard nixon we have had a level of relations with the head

of state of that country not with standing, is it a mistake for this administration to receive the president of china? >> thank you, congressman. it's great to be here. i think what you find is that we have a very complicated and interdependent type of relationship. we have so many priorities. we have to balance them, and as you've indicated, every president that we've had since nixon has done this, and so people can object in various ways and have very good reasons for this, but obviously the public and they determine no, this is the best way to go. we may be at a cross roads now and have to change the situation. ..situation. china may be trying to dominate the world with this type of thing. i don't think so. i think china has too many problems. i think the united states is leading power in the world, and it's going to stay that way for

some time so it gives me a lot of confidence in this situation. but i think about my is you have to figure out where to come down on these priorities. and i think as you have indicated, every president of the united states has endorsed this kind of approach. >> thank you. mr. wortzel,o'r >> you were talking earlier about taiwan's defense capability. you said they are in bad need of an upgrade of their aircraft. is there any reason to believe the government in taiwan is not capable of defending itself in the event of military incursion? >> i don't think that is the issue. i think that the issue is how capable could they be of doing it? and what form might any attack take. they would have a hard time defending against those 1100 ballistic missiles. which could do a lot of damage.

i think they would be very hard pressed if there are were massive operations into taiwan to disrupt infrastructure. they themselves could do more to harden the airfields and storage facilities. i think they have been woefully deficient in the way they dribbled in the command and control and data links for their current forces. i mean if i -- i said this to their minister of defense. if there's one thing you could do to immediately improve your capabilities, it is take the whole data link and c4isr package, and link all of your ground, naval, and air assets and missiles so they could take part in cooperative targeted engagement. but they are doing things. they have done a lot, not everything, that we offered. and they are doing their own

rocket-launch systems. they use the system with precision guided grounds. >> let me ask you about part of that. given the limitation of times. we have one minute. one things that concerns about the taiwan straits, there's a misunderstanding about the nature of the united states' commitment to the security of taiwan. in your view, does the current government of china fully understand the nature of the u.s. commitment to taiwan? >> i think the government of china does. i think at times some of the political actors in taiwan misinterpret our support as -- i mean i had a legislator from taiwan say, you know, we're glad to get this $16 billion arms package. as far as we're concerned, it's a $16 billion insurance policy that you'll come to our defense. they have to be ready to defend themselves. >> that's right.

mr. chair, we have 20 seconds. you want him to answer that too. >> i think with the chinese policy, there's a dangerous that beijing does not understand our commitment, and thinks that we will not defend taiwan. >> thank you. >> thank you so much, mr. connolly. i'd like to recognize mrs. ellmers, so pleased that you selected our committee. [inaudible] >> thank you, madame chairman. i would like to thank or distinguished panels and individuals and family members of all of the human rights violations in china. you are a constant reminder that we need to be vigilant around the world to human rights violations and how fortunate we are here in the united states. my question is for dr. wortzel, and dr. sutter. dr. wortzel, do you prefer

colonel, doctor? >> doesn't matter, ma'am. either are polite, i've been called a lot of other things. [laughter] >> along the security issues that we've been discussing, last september a chinese fishing boat thought to be a sigh vessel collided with the cost guard of china. tensions rose to an unprecedented level before the chinese boat captain was released. how close did the two sides come to military conflict? and in your opinion, what are the implications for the united states given our treaty obligations with japan? >> i don't think in that instance they came close to military conflict. but it was a very serious diplomatic spat. and it still continues to reverberate among the populous in both countries. but i think these things can escalate, and could escalate if

there are other incidents. we have a treaty obligation with japan. it's a very, very important ally. and without question, if japan got into an conflict, military conflict with china. we could be at their side. i think that the pacific command, commander, and the secretary of state have taken very strong imprincipalled positions not recognizing the sovereignty of the island -- of the islands -- but at the same time, ensuring that the chinese understand that the united states is fully support i have of it's treaty ally. i think the japanese understand that. we need to be very close to them. we're need to work very closely with them. and even under the democratic party of japan, i know the

foreign minister will. they've got a strong leadership that understands the threats from china. >> if i could say something about this, it's part of a pattern. we've seen over the last two years of china being very assertive about the maritime area, south china sea, yellow sea, this time of thing. the net effect of this has really damaged china's position in the pacific region. china is weaker today than a year because of this behavior. the u.s. is stronger. the obama administration has the reengagement of asia strategy. this feeds into it. you are reinforcing american statue and strength while weakening china. if i were china, i would say this is dumb policy. we have to stop doing this. the thing to watch after mr. hu jintao's visit, will they stop? is it dumb. it is hurting.

this is how you get the attention of the chinese leaders. make it cost them, hurt them, and they stop. mr. obama has intervened in various ways saying we are not going to allow this, this isn't going to happen. and i think it's been quite effective. so let's watch, let's see what happens. if we have a situation where the military is out of control in china, if it's being remilitarized, then it could be -- more dangerous situation. but at this point, i would have to agree with mr. wortzel, i think the civilian leaders do have ultimate control. when they look at the cost and benefits, this kind of behavior hurts them. i think they have to calm it down. >> thank you very much. thank you, madame speaker. i yield back my time. >> thank you. i'm pleased to recognize mr. ackerman, the ranking on the submit committee on middle east and south asia. >> thank you, madame chair. the chinese have always been bad

actors. they were the national focus of attention of being almost exclusively the worlds number one recluse until richard nixon pointed out came along and decided to have an intervention and decided it was a better policy to try to engage the chinese rather than to continue with china bashing. which to some seemed counterproductive to reaching a particular policy and behavior change end. now we've noticed that there's a small club of recluse nations. and the chinese and the north koreans have found each other, and have formed recluse anonymous. with china with reckless

recluse, trying to affect the behavior of the north koreans. both seem to be engaging in very provocative activities on and off, especially of late. can the chinese really affect the behavior of the north koreans? they seem to be looking like they are trying, sometimes looking like they are not, is that a -- is that something that's a dial up, dial down, depending on china's needs kind of a control? or do they lack any influence in the end? >> i don't think it's a can they. the question is will they? congressman ackerman. >> you are saying they can. >> well, they provide somewhere between 70 and 90% of north korea's energy needs, somewhere around 40 to 50% of their fuel needs, and a great deal of

foreign investment. yes, they can. they fear that if they cut some of that, it would lead to instability in north korea. and they would end up with south korea, japan, and the united states on their border. that's one thing. second, in my view, is that they absolutely enjoy the fact that the united states is pretty heavily dependent on them, at least perception, that interacts with the state departments interaction toward china. >> i think china could help with north korea too. i think their interest is very much on the -- on stability. that's what they want. and they worry that pressure on north korea, not only could lead to the affects that mr. wortzel points out, north korea could

see them as a enemy. north koreans talk like this often. how hostile their feeling is towards china. the net effect is what will the chinese do? i think they will seek their interest in stability. if the situation in north korea looks like it's going to become very unstable, then they will intervene. i think they did intervene in the case of the north korean provocation at the artillery, that killed south koreans in the latter part of last year. the united states has said the provocations and development of nuclear weapons is a direct threat to the united states. they are serious. the united states put the pressure on the chinese to get them off of the dime, to move the north koreans into their tactics. >> you are saying that the chinese have an actual 12-step plan? >> no, they don't -- no -- no, they don't have a 12 -- i think this is the idea of china rising and being in control. they are not in control. they are riding the tiger.

they don't control north korea. they have a lot of influence. >> same can be said with their very different, but also dangerous relationship with iran. >> iran is much further away. and their influence on iran is much lower than a place like north korea. they are fundamental in north korea. it's right on their border. >> but they are deal, a nuclear power and a nuclear want to be. the chinese are far sighting. don't they see it as a threat not just to united states but themselves. >> they see the near-term. the geopolitical element of china being on the border. it's the instability. >> you are talking about the economic instinct. -- instability. >> yes. >> thank you. i recognize back. >> thank you, i recognize mr. burton. >> thank you, madame chairman --

or chair. thank you. >> referred to earlier as your excellency. >> thank you. after i ask my questions, i'm going to yield my time to my good friend, mr. smith. first of all, you may have answered this question, mr. yang, do you have any idea how many people, how many million of people are in communist gulags? >> it's really difficult to get a number. for the obvious reason. and i talk about a prison system. i have talk about to two prison systems, one is official. through the court, you can get record of how many people they detained. but there's another prison system that is black jail. there are hundreds of them in china now. run by local government, on various levels. we cannot know -- we cannot find out how many people are being

detained. and on top of that, you know, many people are missing, and many people are being put under house arrest. it's just how many people. >> well, we've been told it's in the millions. and i presume that you would agree with that? >> i don't have a specific number. and i would say many. i would say china has the most prisoners of conscious in the world. >> okay. yeah. >> yup. >> one the things that i have -- i gather from listening to these learned people, is that i believe china is not dumb. i believe they are very smart. their leaders. and i think that they are playing chess, and they are doing it over a long period of time. they are moving as they can into the caribbean, and into south america, they are making friends and supporting tyrants who are not socialist, but many of them

are plain out communists. and they are putting us in a trick bag because of the economic things that they are doing to us. right now we have a $270 billion trade deficit with them. i think we are well over $1 trillion in hoc as far as what we owe them. if they start pulling the strings, which i think they will at some point, they can make us to at least some degree dance to their tune. i'd like to get you from, gentleman, your perception on the long-term goals of china, and whether or not they are doing what i think that are doing both economically and militarily. they are building their military up dramatically. and so they've got us by the throat as far as our debt to them. and that would threaten our

economy long term. and if they are building up their military and making these connections around the world, does that pose a real threat to the united states security? i yield to mr. chang, and mr. wortzel. >> in my view, there's a long term historical and cultural -- >> can you sum up pretty quickly. >> yeah. long term cultural affinity for the cruel of power and dominance in china. that creates a sense where they can almost dictate to other states how they can behavior. that's the way i read a lot of their behavior, particularly around that are periphery. >> i believe they want to be a pure competitor to the united states. they want to drive the u.s. out of asia. that's very clear. they would like their currency to be the world reserve. they want to dominate nations on

their periphery. this is clear from what the chinese have been doing. as we've seen in the past year, it's been very concerning about their relations with japan, south korea, india, where we see moves against the countries which are our allies. clearly china is an adversary, and one that we have to be careful about. i think they do play chess. but the one thing, they make very serious strategic errors. they are very good on tactics. long term strategic moves, maybe not so good as we saw in the past year and mr. sutter talked about. >> mr. smith is recognized. >> thank you. let me make a point. mr. coll -- connolly asked in the receiving hu jintao. it's not if you don't meet or receive, it's how. state dinner, when bush had a working lunch in 2006. it sends a message, especially

when he is the jailer of -- >> thank you, mr. smith. thank you. we welcome congresswoman bass of california to our committee. thank you. and please to recognize mr. chabot of ohio. we are pleased to have you return to serve with us. thank you. the gentleman is recognizeed. >> thank you, madame chair. i have a couple of questions for you first. i was for quite a few years chairman of the congressional taiwan caucus. i've been interested in those issues and been there many times over the years. relative to their defense, you had mentioned the fighter planes in particular. could you discuss at the time there was a move for some submarines as well, and that ultimately didn't go anywhere. i see you frowning. what are your thoughts about that? >> it -- i -- it's a very

difficult problem. it's a problem for the united states navy because they really don't want to have to work on or produce diesel submarines. >> they were talking about doing it in france or europe or some place. >> if the french got away with bribing enough chinese and taiwanese to get destroyers there, everyone had an accident falling off the tall building, i don't think that'll work the second time. they need the submarines. i mean if the united states could get costa rica to buy a dozen submarines to germany and transfer them, it doesn't hurt anybody. if the germans look the other way. if we brought them and retransfer them, they need them. but i don't think it's viable to think that they are going to be begin to produce them from nothing. and then fill out the rest of their defense. >> okay.

and relative to the missiles, i think when we first organized the caucus, and this has been 12, 14 years ago or so, i think the number then was 400 or 500 missiles. then it went to 600, 700, now it's 1100. i mean clearly china has been, you know, threatening taiwan for many, many years now. and bullying them into a considerable degree. relative to the missiles, is there anti-missile technology that would be helpful. there was talk about that at the time. you mention some missile system, could you e rash late on that -- elaborate on that slightly? >> we have sold the missile defense technology, to a limited amount. it will help them, it could protect specific areas. that's still an awful lot of missiles. my personal view, and this is really the united states defense need, we need to be working on lasers. we don't want to be shooting two

or three missiles at another missile. we need to melt them right out of the sky quickly. >> okay. and then slightly off topic, but not really that much. continuing in the taiwan vein, president has been in prison now for some time. and, you know, certainly he's been pushed for his alleged transgression. isn't enough enough? isn't it about time? have they reached the point where you have perhaps the criminalization of politics here? mr. chang, i see you nodding if you want to jump in, you are welcome to do so. >> i think the real, the former china is the procedure under which he was convicted. at this point, there needs to be a thorough review of the way that the current government has been prosecuting and persecuting members of the democratic progressive party. >> uh-huh.

>> this is really a very bad story. the united states needs to pay attention. freedom house has talked a lot about the erosion of human rights in taiwan. and it is going to be a big story in taiwan for the next two or three years. >> okay. thank you. and i just -- congressman if i could. >> yes. your comments on taiwan. one thing about the -- first on the president side. yes, there has been problems, perhaps with the due process. but my god the charges against him that have been proven are very damning. so the fact that he's in jail seems to make a lot of sense to someone like me. >> how long has he been in prison now? >> two years maybe. a little less than two years. >> family members in prison as well. son and wife. >> yes, i'm not sure where she is. she's been convicted. so this is a -- this is big corruption, sir. and so i think the charges are worth looking at carefully. on the military side, just keep in mind with the one reservation

that i have about this, one the most important ones is taiwan willing to buy? taiwan is -- their gdp, their military budget is less than 3% of their gdp. you are not dealing with a country that really wants to militarize itself or build itself up militarily. >> i only have five seconds. that was one the frustrating parts. we kept pushing them to buy the weapon system and the legislature couldn't find a way to do. >> thank you. and we thank mr. ms. bass of california for yielding her time and recognize mr. marino of california. who will be yielding to mr. smith. if you could make that motion. >> i do yield my time to mr. smith. >> thank you. >> thank you, madame chair for that curtesy, and my new friend and colleague. we ran out a moment ago about the issue of how you receive a person who with his past and

present raising serious issues about what we are actually doing, especially to the disdense who will throughout all of china, including liu xiaobo and his wife. these are new. perhaps some of you might want to speak to that issue. let me also say the distinguished chair lady mentioned a moment ago, in these audience are some of the greatest and finest human rights defenders and their loved one. wan was taken out of vietnam as the president took over in 2002. they have not seen their father. they try to get in. he was abducted out of vietnam.

back in china where he's going through a horrific ordeal. his wife who is here today, she made a 2,000 trek to taiwan with his two children after her older daughter was so despondent, perhaps even suicidal because she was being so mistreated. it's not just the disdense, but the families who share in their cruelty by the chinese dictatorship. she made it, thankfully, and her children. but again it raises the question about how can a man who is responsible and i would say directly responsible, he gets a state dinner. when frank wolf and i made several trips we met with liu. we had a list of prisoners, abortion, religious persecution.

we laid it out. ty wasn't happy, but it a real conversation. i wonder if, you know, when the totes are made later on tonight and there's all of this hoopla around a state dinner, that all of that kind of simmers into the background and what had -- what message have we sent? also if you could speak to this, i would yield to you, the bad governance model. when i shared the subcommittee years ago, three hearings on what china is doing in africa, people like bashir, and so many others who are dictators, loved the chinese model of control and secret police. and i'm very worried about the influence that they are a bad governance and bad human rights model is having unless we really speak loud and clear. and i would again make my appeal to the president, to the press corps, be public. don't walk on egg shells. speak boldly about, especially

president obama about his fellow peace prize winner. because he won it last year. this year, liu xiaobo who is in prison and his wife under house arrest. >> congressman, i'm personally upset about the honor that hu jintao is receiving. so it's not a matter of whether to meet or receive hu jintao. it's how to do it. i agree with you totally. keeping hu jintao this honor will send two messages to china. one to china's government and other to china's people. to the government, it can be described as that we can get away with the atrocities that we perpetrated in the past. disappearing people, put noble peace prize winner in jail. we can get away with any human rights violations. the message is to the people. that if u.s. may not be that

sincere about human rights issues in china. and i want to emphasis that china is very practical, very rationallal player. chinese government legitimacy is performance-based. namely, the only source of legitimate for this regime to continue it's rule in china is the economic of rolls. so we have too much imposed fear on ourselves. thinking that if we take a stronger position on human rights issues, that we'll jeopardize our economic relationship with china. why should i fear of? they are the persons, they should -- it is done that issue to fear any jeopardizes of economic relations with the u.s. and the rest of the world. because the slow