tremendous defeat for the united states. however we dress it up, if we say the afghans have their chance and they couldn't do it, if we say that we have somehow satisfied what we went there to do, we may fool the american people, but we will not fool the muslim world. when we leave afghanistan without accomplishing what we said we were going to come it will be viewed as the mujahideen defeating the second superpower, and that can only mean that the muslim world will be more galvanized against us, and more young men will flow to the battlefield where ever they are and certainly more will take up arms inside the united states. >> michael scheuer's new book, osama bin laden, will be in bookstores in february, 2011.

.. >> the apostle of nonviolence who urged indians to enlist in the first world war, the champion of i understandian in-- indian independence who never hated the british. it tells of his cam paibs

against racial discrimination, tracks the battle for freedom, explored the evolution of ghandi's nonviolence quest and a passionate attention and one that persists around the world today. it was published with rave reviews in india in 2007 and last december it won the biannual award from the india -- excuse me, indian history congress that recognizes the most significant work in history in the previous two years. it is now being published in north america with many accolades. publisher's weekly wrote that this account is notable not just for the author's personal ties and passion, but for its considerable research and e norty of his undertaking.

it was a star review saying although many studies of ghandi has been written, this is an invaluable research for scholars and those embarking on a beginning study of the man. he is a research professor at the center of south asian and middle east studies in campaign, a former member of the upper house of parliament, led the delegation in 1990, written three other books, and now here he is to talk about his latest. [applause] >> thank you, jennifer, and i'm grateful to the national press club in particular to my friend robert web who steered the

initiative that has led to this event, so if we could all thank him. [applause] we know who to blame at the end of this event. it is an honor to be at the press club and glad c-span is recording this. i appreciate that very much. as a passionate viewer of c-span viewer for many years. i thank you all for coming out this evening. i really appreciate it. let me give you an idea of what i hope to do this evening. the book was written to try to look at gandhi's life in one piece, one who can be touched, could be seen, who could be understood. that is how and why i wrote the

book. what i want to do this evening is offer a selection from his life, almost a random selection to give you an idea. it is a large book. it's 700-plus pages. it was a long life, and a life full of a number of events. i would start with gandhi's youth. as a result of his previous autobiography, the world hasn't mentioned him as prepossessing, unexcited young man. how accurate is that picture? that's my first question. when he was 18-plus, he left india to study law in london. he was born and spent his choold

hood year -- childhood and then took a ship to england. after he arrived in england in 88, shortly after his arrival in england, he started keeping a journal of his thoughts and experiences, and this is what he writes after having arrived in england about the send off that he received from his town. this is an 18-year-old young man who is being sent off, and this is what he writes after he arrives in england. when he had come to bid me farewell on the night. [speaking in native tongue] they

were among those who came. others may be added. supposedly timid teenager is really a leader in his limited world that many should see him off is not surprising in itself. departures for london were not every day affairs in the day of 1888, but what is striking is the lack of surprise about the send off. he takes it for granted, and the way he reels off the names of persons who quote on quote for among those who came suggests a leader in the making if not one already made. on the ship to england, his cabin mate was a much older man, already a lawyer, also going to

become an ambassador in london, and the shich was called the clyde. also from another state in india, gandhi was also raised in two states. they saw a good deal of each other. here's an incident that can be recalled in his auto.cc. some of you -- autobiography. some of you are aware of this. they were not town of portsmith attending a conference. the house in which they visited was of questionable reputation. the conference organizers did

not know anything about it. i think his autobiography later he still doesn't want to blame the conference organizers. returning to this conference, they had dinner. what followed is in the autobiography. after dinner, we sat down to play bridge in which the landlady joined. every player indulges in innocent jokes, but here the companion and hostess begin to make innocent ones as well. it captured me, and i also joined in. just when i was about to go beyond the limit, leaving the cards and game to themselves, my good companion sent a warning, when will this devil in you, boy, be off quick? i fled from the scene, to my

room i went quickly with a beating heart like a animal who escaped from their per purr suer. many years later, gandhi returned from south africa. he is well-known, and then he talks with one of gandhi's close aids. he tells him that -- he calls them a child which is what he was when they were on the ship together. he was "obstinate" and had moral

strength. there was no one more truthful, but along with truth, he has a lot of ego. only what he says is the truth. in the journal he is keeping in england, this is what he wrote. referring to his journey from india to england. i'm right had it been some other man in the same position in which i was in, i dare say he would not have been able to visit england. he also adds that i'm not a man who would after having formed my intention leave it easy. another man that gandhi defended during his student years in london was also an older person. he was studying medicine, also studying law, and later in law

he became successful. he continued his friendship with gandhi until his death in 1952 i think. he financed gandhi's campaign, a very close personal friend. this, too, is of some interest. they are both much older than him, enlisted by him, just like many years later he would enlist many young people. he spent his time in england as a student. while in grad school, he didn't read newspapers. his english was very poor, but over the days in london, this timid and exciting young man starts reading three daily newspapers every morning. he tefl graphed the liberal daily news and the gazette, the idea of which william c. steed

was sent to jail within gandhi's arrival for the role in exposing of how prostitutes had been recruited. with their stories and differing perspectives in different newspapers with the tensions between workers and bosses, between england and islands, they nurtured the political string and this quickly improved his eng -- english. his early interest in religion and he read books recommended by an unnamed friend and learned something about the prophet of islam. this reading should be seen together with the participation in meetings in london. we're talking about 1888-1889 to the islam that was founded in 1886 from muslim students.

we, of course, know in grad school and even as a high school student in his early to middle teens before leaving for london, he had befriended young muslims. while a student in london, he also gave a few talks, and one of the talks was on india. in 19-year-old or 20-year-old by this time talked about the fruits of india. he wants his british audience to realize they are listening to a man from india. he talked about the provinces in addition to what is eaten in his part of india, western india. then, stating that the poor in india lived on vegetable foods because they cannot afford to pay for meat, he added, there are millions on india who live on one-third of a penny a day. these people have one meal per

day that consists of stale bread and salt, a heavily taxed item. this is what 40 plus years before the salt march. now, when he returned to india at 22 or so, he met a very interesting man, a giant scholar and poet and a jeweler. with this man, gandhi was 22, and he was just three years older than him. he had very interesting conversations soon after his return from england, and again after he had started his life as a lawyer in south africa and returned from south africa to collect his family and take them back to south africa in 1896

when gandhi was 27. when he was 22 and 27 he was interesting conversations with this remarken scholar, poet, and philosopher, and he speaks to gandhi about the value of renunciation, the value of poverty, the value of simplicity, the value of chastity. these are ideas that gandhi starts to also get very deeply involved with. especially after that second conversation in 96, end of 96. gandhi is serious about thinking some kind of personal vows of poverty, simplicity, chastity, even inside marriage, an ancient notion, but also gandhi found he felt that notion as well.

however, when he arrived in south africa with these ideas on his mind, he finds a, he's successful as a lawyer and makes a good deal of money, and despite his interest in the idea of chastity even inside marriage, he too ideas draw gandhi and his wife. he becomes quite important as a leader of the indian community in south africa. he fights for indian rights, against discrimination. he also brings an indian unit as to support the british in the so-called war at the end of the 19th century. the british against the africans. the british won that war, and because indians led by gandhi had supported them, the indian

situation in south africa seemed to look more promising. gandhi felt that he could now return to india, that his work in south africa was over, and the position was backed by a fear in him that merely money making might be his business in south africa. he told the associates and the colleagues of mine do great work, they can look after everything, and i can now go. they agreed to let him go, and they said that, however, if circumstances change here and we need you, we will send you a message and then please return. he would have to come back. he accepted this, and in his words, the threat that bound me to the community was too strong to break. this love was expressed in a series of farewell events, a gold necklace for his life, other gold chains, gold watches,

a diamond ring. most presents were from the community and some from clients. after an evening occasion when the bulk of the gifts were given, a deeply educated gandhi spent a sleepless night walking up and down his room and debating the gifts. should the public accept gifts? since the clients were helpers in his public work, should he take what they had given? the autobiography is frank about the conflict. it was difficult for me to forego gifts valued at hundreds of pounds, but it was more difficult to keep the gifts. he was trying to simplify life. he drafted a letter facing the presents in a trust for a

community and naming trustees led by a man in the community. i think we can see this renunciation as gandhi may have seen as a step both ethical and political, capable of adding to his influence whether in south africa or india. in the morning he quell a quote on quote consultation with his wife, but only after unfairly securing the boy's agreement. his boys not only said to their father that they did not need the presents, one boy was 13 and the other one was 9, but they did not need the presents, but they agreed to persuade their mother. this did not prove easy. [laughter] he fought with passion and logic also. the boys might dance to his tune, she told gandhi, but what about my futures

daughter-in-law? the future was unknown, and she would be the last to pass up gifts so lovingly giving. she tried, but the boys would not budge. when think did marry, the wives would be free from the ornaments, if, however, ornaments were needed, he would ask him. ask you? i know you by this time. you deprived me of my ornaments. [laughter] fancy you offering ornaments for my daughters-in-law. i'll explain. rather, lath me explain -- rather let me explain and inform you of what was made of the remark. you want them to be saints before they are men. this is what according to him he is saying to her husband, saying no ornaments, no the ornaments

will not be returned because there's a proper legal question and pray what light have you to my matters? in a legal reply, gandhi asked if the necklace was given for her service or his. i agree, but service rendered by you is as good as rendered by me. i have toiled and moiled for you day and not. is that no service? you make me weak, bitter and -- as he wrote later, the appointed trusts -- the only way we know of this conversation is because gandhi told us about it. gandhi was recording these. these are founded trusts, and some went home, but gandhi's

mind made up and he somehow succeeded in extorting her concept, and the gifts received were all returned. so, he goes with the family to india, and he expects to make india his home. he expects to start a kind of political career. he does very well in bombay in the law, and he also makes very promising political connections. he searches for a good house in the suburbs of north bombay, and with the help of the brothers, he hit among a fine bungalo. he prospered better than he thought in his profession.

the famous political leader would drop in in gandhi's chamber with friends for gandhi to cultivate. first class tickets is the community between the city. frequently gandhi walks from santa cruz to take the direct train to church gate and later he confessed at a time he felt pride in being the only first class passenger in the compartment. can you page that today? [laughter] he was settling down in normal fashion and flourishing and took out an insurance policy for 10,000. an american insurance agent who was pleasant convinced him it was a religious obligation to get insurance. [laughter] gandhi has a fine house.

he has a happy family. he's in a flourishing career. he has a comfortable commute. his wife is a wonderful cook. the food at home is fabulous, and he is really enjoying his life. for the first time in all these years, he and his family have about two or three months of this kind of happy life, and suddenly a telegram comes from south africa. the prime minister expected here, please return immediately. remembers the promise he had given, gandhi gave up his chambers in the city, and in november 1902, he went again to south south africa. he thought he could return fairly soon. of course, it was 1 years. -- 13 years. he left his wife and children in

the bombay home under the care of a relative. now, to underlying how hard it was for gandhi to leave that santa cruz home and go back to south africa to keep his pledge, let's reflect on what he writes and try to understand you might see the depth of the meaning behind the restrained words gandhi uses. the separation from wife of children, the breaking up of an establishment and going from the certain to uncertain all was for a moment painful, but i'm in an uncertain life. with respect to the people, he has three years in england, and then 20-plus years in south africa, returns, and then has 33

years in india, and this is what happens in the year 1919. this is four years after his return from south africa, and many aren't aware that april 1919 occurred these incident that as a single incident was the worst in the british rule in india, a massacre on the 13th of april. what happened was some days before this a large crowd of indians, hindus, muslims, go to the holy city out on a demonstration, and the demonstration became unruly, and five englishmen were killed and an english woman was assaulted. this was answered by a series of repressive instructions and

rules and orders. apparently public meetings are all banned, but when 10,000 people assembled a few days later in the gardens in the town, many of them evidently had not heard of this rule that public meetings were banned, but they were banned. generals arrived with soldiers under his command, all indian soldiers under the command of a british general, and without saying a word, he ordered his troops to fire. he occupied the only side of this rectangle that was open. the other three sides had walls, and in 10 minutes, 380 were killed according to official takers in 10 minutes. up to 2,000 were killed elsewhere.

it was the worst single incident in the long story of british rule in india, and later in the year in december of 1919, the england national congress, the premier political organization fighting for india's independence held its annual convention in the city and very close, in fact, to julien, and all these well-known political leaders of india were present. very popular muslim leaders who were just released from prison were there. others at this time still in the congress, they were present at the conference. -presided by -- it was presided by a well known figure, the president, and also present was this irish woman who

made india her home and india was her life's mission. gandhi was also there. also present was the great leader of -- what i'm going to read to you is a description of what's happened at the meeting given by a man who was present, a very well-known literary figure and also a lawyer who held high political office in india. before this convention was a resolution which in very strong terms condemned what had happened on the april 13th day, the killing of 370-plus people. it also criticized, deplored violence in the crowds a few days before that incident.

this is the account of what happened. the hearts of most of us revolted at the lack of the resolution. this muff been -- must have been the work. you know, indians at that time made no distinction between an irish woman and an english woman. a white person today would be? american. this must be been the lady's work because she was british. one leader gave expression to the feeling rather crudely. no one born of an indian mother, said he, could have drafted this resolution. the latter part of the resolution was lost by an overwhelming majority. the next day the president wants to reconsider the resolution.

there were numerous protests. gandhi was to move that the resolution be reconsidered. he spoke sitting, out of respect the house passed quiet but with ill conceived inpatience. referring to the remark that no son born of an indian mother could have drafted the resolution, gandhi considered deeply and long whether as an indian he could have blasted the -- crafted the resolution for indeed he drafted it. he came to conclusion that only a person born of an indian mother could have drafted it, and then he spoke as if his whole life depended upon the question. when he stopped, we were at his feet. the resolution was reconsidered and accepted in its original

form. this is the sort of challenge that gandhi gave to the indian people on using violence, on the hindu-muslim question that hindus must accept muslims and muslims must accept hindus. he tasks hindus to face up to the enormous offense of practice for centuries. i don't have time to go into that or many other interesting books that i think you will find in this very large book. thank you very much, and i hope there can be questions. [applause] >> i believe there are microphones on either side if you want to ask a question. >> because of the c-span

recording, speak into the mic. thank you. >> it seems to me certain role figures like gandhi, martin luther king and others are uniquely suited for their particular time and place in history, and yet they also have a message that is suited for all times in all places in history, and i wondered if you could sum up what was that particular message of gandhi for all of us even here today? >> well, thank you for starting with an easy question. [laughter] if you see a wrong, do something about it. if you see a wrong, look at your own possible responsibility for it also. fight, but turn such light into

words also, fight, but turn the such light into words also. [applause] >> hi, professor, thank you for coming tonight. i had a question, and i'm sure you've been asked this before, but obviously i vice haven't asked it and got an answer for it. in the current state of economic and global affairs for india especially, i've been curious what gandhi's viewpoint would have been of india in the 21st century especially from the economic and capitalist movement that we've seen with recent government from the bjp and then the congress party leading on forward with that, and what was interesting, i guess, to inquire about that more is i think around 1998 after the heightened tension between india and pakistan, sanctions were in

place on both countries, and what kind of shows that litmus test to really point out india's self-deficiency was the sanctions because the country had to dig in and move forward. what i noticed -- i just wanted -- >> [inaudible] >> yes, because what i understood gandhi was a self-sufficient man and person. that's what he wanted in the first place. i'm just curious what his view of india now would be. >> well, this is my take on what his view on today's india might be. he would very greatly welcome the fact that india continued as a democracy all these years is one. he would greatly welcome the fact that a great many poor people today are less poor than they used to be. he would absolutely be saddened by the worship and the dollar

worship of a great many indians. he would be totally opposed to develop into the nuclear india and neighboring pakistan. he would have many to be glad about and much to be unhappy about. >> my question has to do with gandhi and greatness of nations and animals. can you address that? >> yes. the question is about gandhi and the treatment of animals. gandhi was and became as a matter of fact as a student in london, that is where he became a vegetarian by choice. before he left for england, he had been asked by his mother to take a vow against eating meat which he took, but in england, he did develop a very deep

conviction that he should be a vegetarian, and so, yes, gandhi has something to say on the question of how we treat animals. shall we let somebody ask a question? or do you want -- >> can i follow-up on that? his greatness of the nation judged by how we treat our animals. is that philosophy born out of all the pieces from the other elements he had with his philosophy on life? that particular statement appears numerous times anywhere you see and he's concerned with animal welfare in the country and around the world. that was the particular thing. >> yeah, i have also come across that statement by gandhi about the greatness of a nation just by how great animals are treated and also how a nation treats

women and minorities. gandhi was a passionate defender of animal rights, but more a defender of human rights. i think we should see him in totality. thank you. >> i feel like the valley was that gandhi has in three words, truthfulness, compassion, fore -- forbearance. he leads for example and some of his actions like the hunger strikes, and i think that's something you could maybe explore a bit more for us. >> yes, the strikes of gandhi were an important part of his life. he has his -- this very deep spiritual trade from childhood. he also had very powerful political aims, and yet free

very tough political aims that are not consistent with each other necessarily. one was british leave and india be independent. the other was hindus and muslims should be friends, and cease oppressing the low cost and untouchable inhues. -- hindus. he also had difficulties in family. one of his greatest sorrows was his unsatisfactory relationship with his eldest son who became a rebel, and that is a very important and moving story in his life. he -- this man had his personal striving, his national goals, family issues, and very often he turns to not eating as a response to this. sometimes he goes on fasts for

personal reasons. sometimes he wants to challenge the people he loves to look again at certain issues especially on the untouchability issue. he wanted the high class hindus and o bloijed them to focus on the great violence of untouchability as a result of his fasts. he wanted the hindus and muslims also -- the hindus, almost all of them loved him, although there was a section who felt he was too friendly to the muslims. a great many muslims loved him, although quite a few muslims at that time thought that maybe this man was being a very clever hindu, and so they were a little cautious and suspicious about him, but through his fasts on several occasions, he had quite an impact on the hindus and in general in relation to the

muslims and the muslims in relation to the hindus, and as you probably know, his last fast which took place for six days from january 13 to the end of january 18 was instituted because in the city of dell -- delhi, the husband limb minorities were badly treated and there were in incidents in this part of the continent. hindus attacking muslims, muslims attacks hindus. he was there in the capitol of india, and many were feeling very insecure, and indeed there was a plan by some to evict all the muslims from delhi and make the city purely hindu. his last fast and was a fast untoe death as he called it

started in january. enough hindus in delhi prejudiced themselves to prevent that from happening. it was the last fast that angered the few hindus who were convinced that gandhi was too friendly to the muslims and decided to kill him. he was assassinated some days after that final fast of his. >> i wondered what your opinion was of the film made by sir richard apler of gandhi. >> i believe it to be a very fine film. no film can cover everything. it has to cover only certain episodes in a person's life, but i thought it was a great film.

it is interesting after all the creator was an englishman, so this enabled him to speak to the world. >> do you have a profound personal memory that you can share with us? a story? >> the last months of gandhi's life were spent in new dell hi. he was often there, and as i was going from 10 to 12 and him 76 to 78, i saw a lot of him. there were a lot of wonderful moments, not for long moments, but great moments which i won't go into, but the most powerful memory is how he dealt with very unhappy hindus who had come from pakistan as everything had been lost. how he dealt with very unhappy

muslims of delhi who were also threatened, and at these multinational prayer meetings of his open to the public, very often some angry hindus would come to the meetings and would urge him to remove from the prayer the portion from the holy koran and he would urge them to withdrawal their objection. he would ask everybody else, do you mind if the koran is also resited? they would say, of course not. he said to them, these people don't mind, so please agree to this. oven they would -- often they would agree, and other times they would not. the rest of the prayer was also there and i would only make my

remarks and there were some after the end of the prayers. sometimes those who were objecting to him who were very sad, but also very angry, and to me as a 12-year-old boy sitting next to him during this exercise, i would ask myself, well, these guys look as if they are about to come up to the old man, walk him down, there were no body guards in protecting him. what would be my duty if this happened? and then i say to myself, this is a strange man. he doesn't seem to be afraid, and he's talking in a friendly way to the people who are so angry at him. his way of dealing with anger, even hostility made a profound impression on me at that time. >> [inaudible] last two questions. >> last two questions?

okay. >> gandhi was a powerful influence on me while i was in college, and i wrote an essay on tactics of nonviolence entitled roads to war and peace, but i came to the conclusion that nonviolence would work against the british in those circumstances, but what would gandhi had done if he were confronted with, for example, the nazis in germany or someone like hitler. how would he have handled that? >> well, that is a very necessary and important question. in my short answer to that, gandhi would have wrestled with it. he would have found it very difficult. he's on record of saying in 38 that it looks as if only force can be used on hitler. he later on said other things how nonviolence could be used against hitler. all i can say is that gandhi

would have faced -- he was -- he had his very strong principles, but he was also a practical human being, so we can't say what he would have done, but he would have done every single thing to find little or large ways of mobilizing opinion against that horrible, horrible evil. one more question. last question. >> could you discuss his relations and dealing with winston churchill? >> well, there are several, several pages in the book on that. i will very quickly -- they met only once in 1906 when gandhi was in south africa and churchill was in the government of colonial affairs. that was the only meeting, a fairly cordial meeting. in the years when he tried to

meet him, he refused. churchill was not very happy with the indian independence movement, an when gandhi had this after the salt march, he had his talks with the people of india, and churchill was very, very angry indeed about that and made those well-known remarks, but that's some of what you're aware of. he said something about the neighsuating spectacle man priding up the stairs in the representative of the king emperor, and then in in 47 after independence which made churchill not very happy, then the killings did occur. hindus and muslims used violence

against each other and then this is what churchill said a month and a half after independence, the fearful massacres are no surprise to me. that they are only the beginning of the butcheries perpetrated upon one another by the race gifted with the capacities of the highest cultures and who had lived for generations side by side in peace under the british crown and parliament. i cannot but doubt the future will have a vast abridgment of the population. what does he do with the statement? he first of all recites it before his prayer meeting audience in the way i recited it before you. he informed india this is what churchill said. he translates those remarks, calls the former a great man, acknowledges that there is no

doubt that churchill who took hell when great britain was in great danger saved the british empire in world war ii and admitted a few hundred thousand in indian had taken to the path, and at the same time, he took churchill to task describing these in such relish and gross exaggeration, and asked churchill to take the trouble of thinking about britain's responsibility in the tragedy. not referring to the personal wish for the partition, gandhi added by dividing india before quitting, britain invited the two parts of the country to fight each other, a step the future may or may not justify. gandhi's words. he concluded by saying to his people, "many of you have given grounds to mr. churchill for making such remarks. you still have sufficient time to prove mr. churchill's

predictions wrong." >> what do you think gandhi accepted the british relation and to the best figure on religion -- >> why did he accept that which he opposed, argued against, which he passionately kind of opposeed? the majority of the people wanted it at the time, and by this time, a great majority of hindus in the crucial province that had to be divided wanted it. others wanted it, and most crucially, his closest political associates all wanted it, so that is why he felt that he could not oppose it at the

time. he could not prevent it. he declared his unhappiness with it, but he did not try to mount a fite to prevent it. -- a fight to prevent it. he felt it was not likely to succeed, and that most people were in favor of it. [applause] >> this program first aired in 2008. to watch this and other programs from booktv's archives, visit booktv.org. here's a portion of one of our programs. >> the reason i felt it's important to do a book essay because that's what it is, on the obama administration, is because i think it's extremely important to progressive people, not to create too many illusions

about what's around because they don't help, and so see in quite a hard headed way what this new administration is, what it represents in terms of foreign policy, imperialist continuity, and what it represents at home, and it's important to do that to understand to what extent it's different and to what extent it's continuing the policies of the previous three administrations, not just bush and cheney, but clinton, and bush senior. from that point of view, the balance sheet i have prepared, the obama -- more abroad and to render it home is not a very optimistic account or a more

apleasing account of the administration. now, it's not a pleasant task to write books like this because you know when you see what's going on and read a lot of material which has been published on domestic policies, let alone on foreign policies, it's striking how affirmative the administration has been. now, i know all the restraints and con straints are there. i know that we live in a new liberal period that despite the crash of 2008, the system and its political leaders have not attempted any theory in structural reforms which were, you know, necessary after that crash, and so the crash has not gone away simply being blasted over with sticking plaster, and it is going to worry people and is worrying certainly progressive economists, many of

them who are not that radical who are saying it's not going to work, so with an opportunity for a newly elected president what was not responsible and couldn't be held responsible for this particular economic crash, who had unlike previous presidents mobilized hundreds of thousands of young people in this country, brought them out into the streets to help him get elected and had created the illusion that they would do something. i mean, yes, we can is not a very concrete slogan -- [laughter] but it offers some hope or at least creates the impression of offering hope, and so young people were happy. they were mobilized, and they thought that some change would take place abroad and at home,

but the balance sheet is what? let's discuss briefly the continuity in foreign policy. now, to continuity in foreign policy was symbolized by keeping gates on at the pentagon, by essentially accepting view that petraeus' surge in iraq solved the problems, by sticking to bush's plans in iraq without bringing about any change there at all, by pushing these plans through which are essentially very simple by drawing combat unions in the main city's of iraq, building huge military bases in that country and drawing troops. it's not new.

the british tried it in the 20s and 30s, exactly the same plan, and it imploded when there was a revolution in iraq in 1958, and they had to -- they threw the british out, and it's very likely in some shape or form, not in the shape and form of the 50s, but a similar thing will happen if these troops are staying there. on iran, once again, this administration is carried on with the policies, essentially in the case of iran appeasing the israelis. the big pressure of not doing anything with iran, both from the nuclear question and jen win knewly on other questions come on the israelis who are prepared to do anything. that is what that particular issue is about, and the failure of this administration to break

with those policies of the previous administration is not all that surprising because i remember as i point out in the book as i was in the midwest teaching for your weeks in champaigne, and i saw this young fresh faced guy running for the senate called barak obama, and i said to the friends., and he said he is the great hope of the democrats. i said, well, let's wap him, -- watch him because i'm always interested in great hopes. [laughter] president bush said it might be necessary to bomb iran and take out of then nuclear installations or whatever they're doing, and what would be your position on that? i support the president totally said the great hope.