>> thank you very much. oops. [inaudible conversations].. >> and get our scheduled e-mails. sign up for our booktv alert. >> we're here at the national press club talking with paul greenberg about his new book,

"four fish." can you tell us why are these four fish the future of the last wild food? >> well, when you look at what we eat from the land, we've pretty much chosen four mammals, cows, pigs, sheep and devotes. when you -- goats. we've chosen four birds, turkeys, chickens, ducks and geese. and right now we're on the vrnlg of choosing domesticated forms of fish. the choices we make, which fish we choose to domesticate and which we choose to leave wild will have huge ramifications for the future of the ocean. >> how so? >> well, if you look, for example, salmon, a very popular farm fish, salmon require as much as 3-6 pounds of wild fish to grow a single pound of salmon, so if we're going to take all these little fish, grind them up, feed them to salmon, we're going to end up depleting the ocean, and there

are other fish out will that don't require those kinds of huge, you know, deductions from the ocean. tilapia, for example. it's a vegetarian fish and a very sustainable fish. you know, it's those kind of options that i sort of throw out as possible guides for going into the next, you know, farm fish of of the future. >> so are you advocating staying away from certain types of fish in favor of others, or just finding a different way to feed the fish that we eat the most? >> well, you know, it's a come biation of things. a lot of it is just better practices. farming salmon, the way it's done now, you tend to farm salmon where wild salmon live. so diseases spread from farm to the wild, but there are ways of farming salmon, you know, in better environments, you know, out of the ocean entirely in game systems, but really a lot of it is about choosing the right species to farm. another tissue that's similar to the -- fish that's similar to

the salmon is arctic char. they're arctic, they live in environments that freeze nearly solid, so they're used to crowding close together and they have of high disease resistance. so you can grow them outside of the ocean in these close containment facilities where there's no threat to the wild population. it's generally a better farm fish. if you're looking for a salmon-like fish to eat, a char is a better fish. >> thank you very much for your time. >> now, genevieve de galard recounts her time as a flight nurse for the french air force and the aid she provided for many who were wounded during a battle in vietnam. she discusses her book at the an usual association of the u.s. army meeting. the program is about an hour. >> i've got to begin in washington after so many years. the first time it was in 1954

when president eisenhower gave me the medal of liberty and honored those of the battle of dien bien phu i who gave their life to save vietnam from the the communists. when i was asked, i could not refuse, and i wrote a book which has been translated by -- [inaudible] and is published by the association of the u.s. army. i spent three months in indochina in 1953 and six months in 1954 as a flight nurse who specialized in -- [inaudible] because the air transport may need special care. dien bien phu was --

[inaudible] my position were established on the -- [inaudible] gabrielle and be dominique to the east, francois and claudine to the west and, finally, -- [inaudible] isabelle -- [inaudible] hospital that was -- [inaudible] with a surgeon and seven male nurses. in january a second surgeon and male nurses team were sent to -- [inaudible] after the attack on the 13th of march, three parachutes -- [inaudible]

for each of them two shelters -- but there was no other hospital. could receive 55 patients, 40 on metal beds in shelters and 15 in the rean haitian room. that was quite enough as long as the -- [inaudible] went every day to evacuate the wounded and the sick. the landing of the planes become impossible. in the first day of march, i had been sent to -- [inaudible] for a fortnight to evacuate the wounded of the south of vietnam when i learned of the terrible attack launched on dien bien

phu. several planes were destroyed on the ground before they could take off. miraculously, two flight nurses managed to evacuate injured soldiers. i was very sad to be far from the battlefield. the first attack was directed on -- [inaudible] to my southwest of the central position. terribly intense. each supporting position followed fiercely, but -- [inaudible] from the french position. in the trenches they are ten times greater in number and -- [inaudible] in a few hours the shelters exploded under enemy fire. by early morning there were

practically no able-bodied officer. [inaudible] a shell landed in the middle of the central position. it fell on the shelter of the commander of the foreign legion. and the dien bien phu lost a precious leader. around 5 p.m. an enemy rebarrage started against gabrielle. after the -- [inaudible] of the ground assault at 8 to 1, the -- [inaudible] despite attack. it could -- [inaudible] the collapse of the posts beatrice and gabrielle, two

important posts which protected the landing strip, was -- [inaudible] on march 16th a shell fell on the triage tent where 35 wounded were killed. is a shelter where -- [inaudible] several were killed. in the x-ray room, the only x-ray ha -- machine had been destroyed. on the 17th of march, red cross managed to -- [inaudible] as the loading began. injured, able to walk rushed to get aboard. -- [inaudible] the pilot pushed a bell to warn that he was of taking off. some of the injured were or --

[inaudible] rose slowly and painfully. when she counted the charge, she found 32 of them -- and it was miraculous that the plane managed to take off. on march 18th when major landed on the strip of dien bien phu, we the flight thus and the doctor of hanoi, this one was injured despite his bulletproof vest. [inaudible] on march 19 -- [inaudible] managed to save it from a shell which exploded on the very spot

he had just. [laughter] he took off with 15 wounded. so i returned to hanoi to take my place in the north team. 400 wounded were still waiting for evacuation in dien bien phu, and the commander of -- proposed to land the planes at night. eight c-47s were planned for the first night. we would each make two trips if all went well. the landing strip would be marked by three small lights, two pointing out and one the end of the airfield. the pilot would have to land -- [inaudible] would be circling the area so that, so as to camouflage with

its engine the sound of landing aircraft. [inaudible] nocturnal landings -- [inaudible] the telephone rung, and somebody asked for a flight nurse going to -- [inaudible] immediately, i got my medical bag, an oxygen kit and drove off in a jeep. the aircrafts were already turning. during the flight the colonel had a short briefing for loading the wounded. thirteen able to walk and -- [inaudible] on one side of the plane and six severely wounded lying down on stretchers. where to be put on the floor to

be as quick as possible and take off before they actually start fighting of we arrived over dien bien phu. the night was dark. i thought of all the injured men waiting for evacuation and prayed to god that the attempt would succeed. the landing went well. the ambulances were there, and everything went calmly and smoothly. i shall always remember the, presentation of joy -- the expression of joy on the face of the man who directed the evacuation when he saw me. this darkness -- in the darkness, the tired faces of the medical corpsmen from the medical unit that i know well seemed to emerge from another world. when the plane take off, the wounded noisily celebrated their

joy. [inaudible] we would now resume the evacuations. that night five -- [inaudible] managed to transport about 100 wounded under the nose of the -- [inaudible] unfortunately, the last three planes had to turn back without landing. over the next days, the nighttime operations were stopped in order to lower the enemy vigilance. the helicopter -- [inaudible] where a c-47 waited to return hem to hanoi. them to ha though. on -- hanoi. a helicopter hit by a mortar on takeoff fell heavily on isabelle and burst into flames. it was the end of the evacuations by helicopter.

on march 32 -- [inaudible] started again. on the night of march 23 the pilot's mechanics had been injured inside the plane. happily, the pilot -- lightly wounded -- were -- [inaudible] and the pilot could fly his plane back to hanoi. on march 24 two -- [inaudible] the first plane exploded. the second crashed in the -- [inaudible] the enemy and the aircraft became frighteningly accurate. the dropping of the -- [inaudible] having to be done each time on

the same axis. the planes were an easy prey. two more planes landed on the night of march 25, three landings were planned on the night of march 26, and i was in the third. because of trouble from the radio -- [inaudible] the landing strip when we arrived. so shelling intensifyied. -- intensified. the pilot considered to risk it, wait longer pause his engine -- because his engine had showed signs of trouble on the way over. when i saw the -- [inaudible] i rushed to the cockpit. too late, the plane was already underway. i was crushed, and on the way back to hanoi, i could only think of those men who believed they were close to freedom.

i imagined their despair and when back i asked my team leader to let me go again to dien bien phu since my mission had not been completed. but the same evening i wrote a long letter to my mother. i hoped that letter would help her the i did not return -- if i did not return. on march 28 at 4:15, i was off again to dien bien phu. the visibility was very poor, was not on the right axis. on the third attempt, we landed on the land strip, but we drove slightly off the track and knocked over -- [inaudible] as they were or setting the

wounded on board with, the mechanic discovered that -- [inaudible] was leaking. that was terrible news for the patients that the ambulance brought to the -- [inaudible] but it was still night, and the fog rendered the plane invisible to the vietnamese. alas, at 10 a.m. they actually went to action. our plane was hit, ask we watched the flame -- and we watched flames and the smoke all around it. the day was calm, and be i could i was given. the following night the weather was very bad and prevented the rescue i to come. -- the rescue to come. on the 29th the --

[inaudible] that was coming to the airfield got stuck in the mud and slid in the ditch and barbed wire fences, and we had to push be it on foot. when the commander of the -- [inaudible] arrived on dien bien phu, the strip was a veritable skating rink, and -- [inaudible] at 4:00 in the afternoon, shells from mortars and guns started to fall. by five they actually fire -- [inaudible] i fight as if it was the end of the world. the impact shook our bunker. pieces of -- [inaudible] fell from are the roof, and

nobody said a word. to satisfy needs, men used tin cans. i couldn't do the same, and after several hours i had to go outside under the shell asking god to protect me. the shelling lasted all night. on march 31, in a few ground waiting for where there was room between the beds of the patients already there. the corridor of the unit, narrow, muddy and barely lit, was immediately blocked with the -- stretchers until

the injured had dirt mixing with their blood. as the wounded were brought in, they had been prisoners of war, treated them as hutch as i could. -- much as i could. the doctor put me in emergency care of the most seriously wounded -- [inaudible] i worked under the light of electric lamp in the corridor, one knee on the ground and one on the edge of the stretcher. how could i describe this uninterrupted flow of injured? -- [inaudible] our inability to shelter all of them and help them fast enough.

on the basis of this long experience, the doctor deciding >> the doctor was operating without a break, with or without another doctor's experience. with each explosion the -- shook and debris fell on the operating room. fortunately, it was -- [inaudible] which held 15 beds was packed with the addition of 15 stretchers or on the ground. the wounded were quickly

attended and returned to their unit under mortar shells because we had no room for them. that night the vietnamese took three of our positions. only dominic 3 defended the road leading to our headquarters, but -- [inaudible] commanding a battery of -- [inaudible] saw waves of vietnamese running to him for direct -- [inaudible] right in front of his position moving down the enemy curves. on march 31 at night, the wounded could no longer be brought to the hospital because of the shelling which left me

more time for those already this uni. in the unit. but the deafening sound of fire never ceased during more than three days. the sense of our -- [inaudible] inability to serve all of our wounded or even bring them under shelter from the shelling became intolerable. when the shelling calmed down, the vietnamese were close to the landing field. airvacuations were now -- air evacuations were now impossible. for me it was different. having shared those terrible days with the wounded, i felt that a feminine presence was a help for them. i wanted to stay with them.

a certain calm having returned in early april -- [inaudible] since the unit was transformed into a small subterranean hospital. dr. culver entrusted me with the care and oversight of 40 men, the most reliable who came out from the -- [inaudible] at the center of the unit, a long, narrow hallway opening on the right to the shelters for the wounded with metal beds -- [inaudible] on the left a small corridor led to the operating room opposite the -- [inaudible] and it was an x-ray room.

they always started a -- [inaudible] that opened to the triage room. the kitchen -- [inaudible] the medical unit was directed by two surgeons, dr. culver and dr -- [inaudible] in this underground of sufferings, every day i attended to the wounded -- [inaudible] and distributing medicinement very soon i realized the importance the presence of a woman in the middle of the battle. when wounded, the toughest man becomes as vulnerable as a child. in dien bien phu, i was in a way a mother, a sister, a friend. my mere presence because i i was

a woman seemed to render this hell a little heads inhuman. a little less inhuman. if she had not been there, one man said later to his wife, i couldn't -- [inaudible] others would have played the same role this my place, but i had the luck to own that role, and it illuminated the rest of my life. how could i not melt we motion when -- [inaudible] told me every time you walk into my shelter, my morale goes up 100%? -- [inaudible] of the wounded, many so very young. 19 years old boy hit by a grenade, his eyes burst and

his -- [inaudible] when his condition stabilized, he tried with his poor, mutilated hand to play the harmonica to the great joy of his comrades. a young german legionnaire, 19 years old, displayed a morale of steel. -- [inaudible] by shell fragments, both arms and one leg had to be amputated. to avoid the risk of infection, the stumps were left open. each change of bandage caused him to -- [inaudible] one day during a calm in the battle -- [inaudible] expressed a desire to breathe some fresh air at the entrance of the surgical unit, asked me to accompany him.

so off we went down the long, dark tunnel hopping on his good willing. and lean -- on his good leg and leaning on me. when we arrive at the end of the tunnel, i said, i will take you dancing when this is all over. these are words one can never forget. [inaudible] never heard any complaint. he was a paratrooper of the fifth vietnamese -- [inaudible] taking part in counterattack -- [inaudible] one charge and broke out in full voice with -- [inaudible] hope came back, and we could

only keep the grievously injured who needed daily attention and nursing. those whose condition had improved returned to their quarters and often back into combat. every day brought new casualty. when the colonel dropped by to bring cigarettes, he was asked to connect our unit to the neighboring shelters and the engineers -- [inaudible] greatly enlarging the underground hospital. to increase even further its capacity, our -- [inaudible] retrieved parachutes were placed on the benches that -- as bed. it looked sinister as a shelter

were called cat a comb. i was offered a tiny shelter -- [inaudible] having learned that for three [inaudible] on easter day mass was celebrated in the operating room, miraculously empty. all those who could walk joined the severely injured lying -- [inaudible] a great favor filled the space, many received the the communion. we hoped that the -- invaded the shelter, and we had to raise the lower-level

beds. the muddy trenches made the carrying of stretchers increasingly difficult. the number of troops was diminishing day by day, the number of reinforcement was insufficient. and many of the injured soldier among the 4,267 men drop as reip forcement -- reinforcement, 680 volunteers jumped into dien bien phu without having been certified as paratrooper. that is something you anesthetic. unique.

[inaudible] only 3,250 ale-bodied men left this dien bien phu and 1,000 in isabelle. on april 29 the colonel invited me to his cabin post and wanted to give me something. when i opened the envelope, he held out to me -- i discovered two decoration -- [inaudible] my heart filled we -- with emotion. the following day was the traditional celebration of the foreign legion. i joined the colonels at the command post -- [inaudible] the latter ordered me with the title of first class of honor of the foreign legion. i was now confident that the --

[inaudible] considered me as one of them, and that made me very happy. the battles raged without ceasing on dominique -- [inaudible] the positions were being gradually shot by the vietnamese trenches. condition became traumatic for the injured. many of them remained unconscious for hours in the mud on the morning of may 6th, a terrifying noise -- [inaudible] it was a sound made by a rocket rocket -- [inaudible] when hi work was with done -- my work was done that night, i returned to the hospital command post. lying on a parachute, closing my eyes not to disturb the officer

i followed the -- [inaudible] minute by minute. listening to the radio. the colonel who asked me to stay with them telling that i could bring -- [inaudible] i heard terrible explosion which shook -- [inaudible] explosives had been placed under the post -- [inaudible] i heard the -- of the unique commander 30 feet away, give our love to our families. it's over for us. by dawn all of -- had disappeared. a breakout was planned for that evening.

[inaudible] would stay behind to guarantee the safeguarding of the wounded. i returned to the surgical unit where the injured were to be brought in droves. i learn that any breakout would not occur as the last combatant were too exhausted. the fighting would -- [inaudible] the men were ordered to destroy their arms by 5:00, everything possible, weapons and ammunition. at 4:30 i walked over to the -- [inaudible] to say good-bye. we all were close to tears. the they gave me letters and addresses of their families,

hugged me. back at the unit i informed my patients that the -- [inaudible] would stop at 5. they were greatly relieved. i distributed the last cigarettes. silence settled over the valley, ask we waited. and we waited. at about 5:30 in the afternoon of may 7, the vietnamese arrived without firing and drove us out of the shelters to the the great despair of the wounded who had to remain -- [inaudible] the embankment near the wounded offered a vision of horror. it was covered with bodies turning purple. to one had been able to -- [inaudible] the past few days. after marching for 150 meters,

we received an order to return to our unit. on may 8 the injured who could walk left the shelters of the unit happy to escape the suffocating atmosphere of the -- [inaudible] but the badly wounded were asked to endure three more days after the fall of dien bien phu -- [inaudible] those three days left an awful memory. we had no electricity, and i emptied our stock of bandage and medicine, antibiotics which were so essential. i warily suck -- barely

succeeded in hiding from them the large bandage for those injured in the abdomen -- [inaudible] the vietnam made it a point to organize a hospital under the tents made out of parachutes. during the installation of the injured which took two days, we were forbidden to approach them. we used that break to rest a little. [inaudible] the food consisting of rice and dry fish was sufficient. after those two days, i was allowed to treat the wounded, but under the watching of the vietnamese. under a parachute tent where the wounded were brought on a stretcher. all i had for compresses were strip of -- [inaudible] fabric and some -- [inaudible] i was not allowed to visit the

injured in the other tents, especially the officers who had been separated for their bed. i saw them from afar. it could only make a few signs of friendship. on may 21st the vietnamese announced -- [inaudible] was manifestation of joy. i refused to leave my patients behind. [inaudible] besides, i didn't want to take the place of one of them in a plane. so i requested to postpone my departure until the end of the evacuation and the -- [inaudible] on may 24th the vietnamese forces, forces me to leave because international opinion was suggesting that they were

holding me against my will. i had to be very sad to leave my patients and the medical staff. the last evacuations took place on may 26th. [inaudible] during the darkest moment and compared me to the small beaver where -- [inaudible] was waiting for me. with tears in my eyes, i hugged both of them. as i walked away, one called out, what is going to become of us now without our blue eyes? the next day the medical team took the direction of the camp of prisoner.

happily, a week later they were liberated and i got this good news on the first of june when i arrived to paris. may 26th was the last day of the liberations but a lot of injured who had not been released left for the prison camps where they lived in awful condition and 70% of them died during the march or during the time of prison. in the -- [inaudible] that took me to -- [inaudible] an officer told me i do not know if you realize that the whole

world had it eyes on you, the only french woman in dien bien phu, a prisoner of the vietnamese. dozens of journalists and photographers wait for you -- [inaudible] i answered him, so it seems that the hardest part is not behind me. happily, the welcome -- [inaudible] was extraordinary in a military and friendship ambience. it was a special moment that still warms my heart every time i think of it. a detachment of legionnaire presented arms. i was really touched when i pass them before -- [inaudible] they knew that i was, had been

named first class of honor of the foreign legion. under the tent of the medical unit, i enjoyed my patients and the flight nurses on duty. our reunion was full of joy. after a moment i left -- [inaudible] for hanoi. when we arrive, it was nighttime , and as the door opened, blinded by lightning and the camera flashes, i could not help stepping back and thinking at what i said to -- [inaudible] it seems that the hardest part is not behind he. however, i was glad to be free and to ree join my family. never at any time did i agree finding myself trapped in dien bien phu.

the difficult moments that i experienced there remain for me unforgettable. and i attach a great price to the friendship and the sympathy of those brave men with whom i have the privilege to share my life for almost two months. it is their courage which in spite of the defeat saved the order of france. thank you. [applause] >> thank you very much. >> [inaudible]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> i am personally very curious because sitting next to you is also a gentleman who served with the american forces in the delta this vietnam, and with the separation of many years, 1954,

1968 i'm just curious the deference, the feelings -- the difference, the feelings that might be expressed. >> [inaudible] [speaking french] >> i feel much sympathy for you and your husband. my time of prisoner has been very short. they were very upset, they were

very worried because they wonder what will happen of me, but i was never -- i am a woman. i don't think they will keep me. and i was -- by the others, you see? at one time after the three first days, they decide to give to the team, to the head call team -- medical team a place to stay, and they would like me to go and live with their girls. and at one time i was very afraid. but happily, the doctor told them, she has been with us in a

difficult time. we want to keep it, keep her with us, can we are going -- and we are going to make a tent -- [inaudible] >> greatly respect your courage. did you ever go back to dien bien phu? >> i never went back. i went back to vietnam in 21, but the group was not organized to go to dien bien phu, and i didn't -- i did want to go to dien bien phu because people had told me each time they decide to build a new house, they dig the soil, the ground, and you see

bodies of those who gave their lives, and i couldn't support to see such things. >> hi. i really don't have a question, but i think i speak on behalf of some of the military spouses that are here with me that in light of your great courage if something should, god forbid, ever happen to any one of our husbands that somebody like you would always be there. [speaking french] >> thank you. [applause]

and it was not only for the wounded because one day weather was very clear, and there was a parachute -- a drop of parachutes, and we went out to see them, to see dropping, and it was beautiful, you see? this white coming down the sky. and -- [inaudible] arrive on the ground close to me, and when he get up he say, ah, a woman. and his voice something optimistic as if there's a

woman, it's not so terrific as they say in hanoi. >> thank you very much for your presentation. kid you remain many the military -- did you remain this military after indochina? [speaking french] >> yes. i stay. when i finish my engagement, i -- [speaking french] >> translator: extended. >> i extended my engagement, and after that once. but i left at that time because an american doctor, dr. rusk, the order of rehabilitation center in new york invite me to come. at that time the center of -- [inaudible] which is beautiful now was starting to be --

[inaudible] and they showed that perhaps that could help if i go to the state for six months. and that was very interesting to me. and after that i could work in the -- [inaudible] during the two with years before i went to madagascar with my husband. >> are there any other questions? >> i could not go back to the flight nurse, but at that time it was forbidden. >> do the survivors of the camp get together periodically? and do you meet with them periodically? salesmen. [speaking french]

>> there was an association, but the president and the general secretary were so tired that after the anniversary of the 50 anniversary of dien bien phu, they decide to close it. but it remains in the -- [inaudible] some small association where the the -- [speaking french] >> the leadership is still continuing the organization. >> huh? >> the leadership still continues the organization.

>> [inaudible] but it's not the same because before we had news every three months. we receive a -- [speaking french] >> translator: letter. >> a letter, a big letter with the news of every day, and i retibet very much -- regret very much that that association has stopped. >> you may not be aware but her husband, jean, is here. would you stand up, please? jean? [applause] with three tours in indochina.

and one tour he commanded a vietnamese unit, then was an intelligence officer and then parachuted into the country north of dien bien phu. so he is, certainly, honored, and we're honored to have him. >> mercy. [applause] >> anyone else? >> well, we're certainly honored by your presence, we thank you very, very much for just a wonderful presentation. >> this event was part of the annual association of the u.s. army meeting. for more information visit ausa.org. >> booktv is on twitter.

follow us for regular updates on our programming and news on nonfiction books and authors. twitter.com/booktv. >> the problem with monopoly over the long term is while it starts promising and results this the golden, often results in the golden age, over the long term entrenchment leads to paranow ya, stag nancy and abuse. over the long term. you know, cbs and nbc when they started had a lot to say for them. by the 1970s things had gone too far. and so what i guess i suggest in my book, a more modified version of my position is it is important to have the sort of structures that can support quality things, but not at the cost of entrenching -- >> uh-huh. >> -- a monopolist for so long that they just lose any sight of what they have to do.

and i think that's what happened with many of the media organizations in this country. by around the '60s and '70s. >> i've got two questions to that, one is prescriptive and one is descriptive. you do a wonderful job in the book of describing this sort of tragic process you just described briefly where a new communications medium comes along, all things are possible, there are these wonderful dreams of how fabulous it's going to be. the title comes from the now-long-forgotten period when there were such dreams about cable television. some of you may remember those days. and then, inevitably, the bad guys take over and get their hand on the master switch. how can that not happen again if it happens every time? >> right, right. >> where what journalists -- what journalists need to understand is the importance of creative destruction in the journalism industry. the very tech people, oh, we have to have a dynamic industry.

journalists are afraid of death. [laughter] they have a poor relationship -- >> that's so unfair. >> journalists and media people have a very poor -- i mean, look at these brands. "the new york times" has been going for -- that's unheard of in other industries that have any sort of turmoil or natural market process. to have brands that last for hundreds and hundreds of years and have these dominant positions. journalists are exactly two -- what is needed in journalism is a dine schism with a little bit of creative obstruction, and it's not comfortable, and journalists will be upset about it, but in the long run it'll be good for you. [laughter] >> you're switch withing from prescriptive to descriptive. let's switch back to descriptive for a minute. the model -- i think richard would say this based on my reading of his book is, tim, you're dreaming because, you know, any communications medium