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tv   Tonight From Washington  CSPAN  February 10, 2011 8:00pm-11:00pm EST

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all americans but it hurts workers most of all. and a second quote in this article, liberal economic theorists argue the large budget deficit will stimulate the economy and produce jobs. in reality, however, large deficits destroys jobs. these are comments i could have made or eric cantor could have made, mitch mcconnell could have made, and we could have made them yesterday. but these words were actually uttered nearly 40 years ago by the late great congressman from ohio i might add, john ashbrook. [applause] after time he was not just directing his comments at the left but also some in his own party who had begun to subscribe to the less we of thinking. john ashbrook was taking on the establishment of his own party urging republicans to reject the idea that we can borrow and
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spend our way back to prosperity the party ultimately hurt his goal. the result was the presidency of ronald reagan and a new approach to governing and the largest peacetime economic expansion in our nation's history. ..
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lets americans asking the question, mr. president, where are the jobs? and a president obama is asking us to raise the national debt ceiling without any commitment to national spending at the time. instead of offering a budget that is the spending binge, the administration is preferring to offer a budget that will destroy jobs by spending too much, taxing to mention borrowing too much from the american people. with all due respect, this isn't winning the future. this is spending the future. [applause] what we need is a path to prosperity, one that unleashes the greatness of our people and the awesome potential of the american economy by getting government out of the way. americans see that the spending binge in washington is hurting job creation, not helping it. they are calling on leaders to stop the job crushing to cut
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spending. he is the method of the union address, it looks like the president wasn't listening, but we are. we got the message. the american people have correct address to cut spending and we will well. there is no limit to the amount of spending that we and our team are willing to cut. we have to get our economy moving again. [applause] let me be clear about this, that we are going to succeed our pledge to america. and next week we are going to cut more than $100 billion of discretionary spending on this year's account. sure mark -- [cheers and applause] and we're not going to stop there. one big cut the discretionary accounts can look into mandatory spending and you'll see mark. and it isn't just how much we spend, but it's also about how
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we spend it. you know, every committee spends tax with the job of doing real oversight, something that congress has long forgotten how to do. and you're going to see us fight to win taxpayer funding of abortion once and for all. [cheers and applause] the other side says that her spending plan is fractured by paul ryan, will cause pain and suffering. baloney. you know what is really going to cause pain and suffering in america is if we do nothing. the famous spending process on autopilot and squandering the nations future. our majority will not stand for that. our goal is to liberate our economy with the shackles of debt, excessive regulation and overtaxation. as i told my colleagues, this is not about us. it is about the american people
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and our job is to follow there will as we said we would. there is another nice thing about an open process that we have today condemning democrats, for their amendments. if they are good ideas come os x to incorporate them. if they are bad ideas, mouse gives a veto. either way what we are going to sam houston oocytes -- both sides have an opportunity to fight for their ideas and allow the house to work its will. and that's how it should be. i don't think anybody in this room is afraid of a battle of great ideas, certainly i am not. our vast majority lost its way when it focused more on winning the vote rather than winning new the argument. [applause] that's how things like earmarks became a problem. that's why we cut spending growing. now let me be clear to all of you. we are not going to make the
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same mistakes this time, not on my watch. [applause] you know, i was here at cpac last year. as for the republican majority to take on earmarks. well, it's one of the first things we do, we ban them. i said we postal bills online for 72 hours before a vote in our self cameras and the rule committee for the first time and we did both. i said while others smacked the tea party and call them names, but we would listen to them, stand with them and walk amongst them and that's exactly what we're doing. [applause] as they were to keep our pledge, our major support and help along the way. remember, we only have the majority in 11 branch of government. right now washington -- to
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really make an impact going forward we need to keep the momentum going and we need the american people is to use a engaged in the. the federal government is at stake today as it is touching all areas of our life and that is because the left is determined, determined to spend more and determined to keep the growing size of washington going. we need to be equally determined to stop it. we need to be equally determined to build a smaller, more, both government that the american people want and that the american people deserve. i know i am and i know you are, but i look closely at all of you and ask you, please take this walk with me. we need to do this together. so again, i want to say thank you for the honor of being here. thank you for the john ashcroft
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award, the early part of my political career, but someone who believes in the principles we do. thank you offer what you've done for the conservative cause. many of you are executives and i know that you're going to continue to do a great job as the year goes on. god bless all of you and god bless our great country. thank you. [applause] ♪ ♪ [applause] ♪
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>> conservative political action conference hosted by the american conservative union continues to march around my on c-span 2 at 9:00 a.m. eastern. in just a few moments, a congressional hearing on what is sad for each address political unrest there continues. in a little less than two and a half hours that of the transportation security administration to size about the new full body screening machines at airports. and after that from the cpac annual conference, remarks by republican representatives michele bachmann and newt gingrich
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do not because of the 24th ave. cycle, reporters are asking us questions all day long. every time you got to the briefing room at noon, they've been asking questions and 4:00 a.m.
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>> next, a hearing on political unrest in egypt and lebanon on the folksy number muslim brotherhood, foreign aid. this meeting of the house foreign affairs committee have been surely before egypt's president, hosni mubarak spoke to the nation. mr. mubarak said he would not step down, but transferring more powers to his vice president. this is a little less than two and half hours. the night the committee will come to order. the folks in the audience with the yellow t-shirt have loved ones, relatives or interested folks about what is going on in camp ashcroft and the freedom loving iranian air and we certainly will keep working so they get the protection they
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deserve from the iraqi government and former u.s. government as well. so we will commute today. after recognizing myself in the ranking member, mr. berman for seven minutes each for an opening day event, will recognize the chairman make an member of our subcommittee on middle east and south asia. three and a half minutes each for their statements. we would then hear from our witness, deputy secretary steinberg. thank you for joining us. following mr. steinberg testimony, will move to questions and answers from members under the five-minute rule. without objection, the witnesses a prepared statement will be made a part of the record and members may have five days to insert statements, subject to length limitations of the rules. thank you very much. so if we could of the clock
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begin now. yesterday as you know, we heard from distinguished pamela pfeifer and former administration officials on the chromatic transformation that is currently taking place in cairo, in beirut. there was general agreement on the need for the u.s. to send a clear signal of support to those freedom loving egyptians who announced violence were committed to democratic governance, who respect the security and the sovereignty of all egypt's neighbors. there were echoes of statements by former secretary of state, henry kissinger from the past weekend, that the u.s. relationship is not just with one person, but rather with all of the egyptian people as a whole. former deputy national secretary, elliott abrams for you to read it created the very situation that israel and the u.s. now fear and that mubarak's statement that he will not run in egypt scheduled election is too late to enable a smooth
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transition. america's role should be to facilitate a post-mubarak transition in order to avert future violence and restore calm and guard against the use of the transition process by nefarious elements such as the muslim brotherhood to direct way for indirectly undermine egypt's evolution to a democratic republic. there is no evidence that a well thought out contingency plan existed in the event that mubarak's governance -- governments became unstable or collapsed. "the wall street journal" reported that middle east experts at a january 31st meeting at the national security council officials quote, please tell me you have contingencies in case of mubarak's regime collapses, end quote. the national security council reportedly admitted there were no such plans. a february 2nd report by foreign-policy.com cites the senior defenestration officials
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telling the administration has been compelled to change his strategy every 12 hours. first it was negotiated with the opposition, then events overtook that. then it was orderly transition. an as mubarak and his son and now the process has to begin now, end quote. turning to the muslim brotherhood, "the new york times" reported on february 2nd that white house staff members made clear that they did not rule out the engagement as part of an orderly process according to one snd had coke. engaging the muslim brotherhood must not be on the table. this is all supplication towards u.s. policy of lebanon, given scene and/or by john brennan, assistant secretary for homeland security and counterterrorism describing hezbollah's evolution from quote a terrorist
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organization, and quote, to a militia to a mr. brennan referred to as an organization that now has members within the parliament and cabinet. has the state department evaluated whether lebanon now meet the statutory definition of a state-sponsored terrorism or terrorist sanctuaries, given hezbollah is controlled by government? and what has the administration stands to continue to provide assistance to such lebanese government. from lebanon to reject, what is the administration's stance on the muslim brotherhood clerics beyond the general parameters with reference to deputy secretary steinberg's written statement that is in our packet, what are the specific components and contingencies that the u.s. strategy towards egypt and 418 and the transitional process. if a key u.s. goal is to prevent the muslim brotherhood from taking over in the muslim brotherhood is well-funded, then
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shouldn't u.s. policy be to shift economic aid away from the mubarak government and focusing on strengthening responsible, peaceful, democratic voices. the administration's initial approach to egypt was clearly not keeping up with the priority and dispersed years while driving increases in international affairs budget, the administration made significant cuts to total bilateral funding for democracy and governance program. usaid reportedly adopted a policy of only funding those organizations officially approved as ngos by the mubarak government. and the requirements of nonsecurity assistance to egypt has compounded the problem. so mr. steinberg, what tangible economic or democratic reform as the government of egypt undertaken as a result of the
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billions of dollars that we have provided an nonsecurity assistance throughout the last decade. what have we received in exchange? this brings to mind two lessons on the lebanese debacle that we are currently facing. the first is that the election unfolds are meaningless unless they are supplemented with democratic institutions. hezbollah's descendents of lebanon was facilitated by the failure of responsible nations who insist on changing a serious take dated electoral law and subsequent regulation prior to holding elections in the aftermath of the 2005 revolution. clear standards for participation in elections and the touche and must be both articulated and implemented to ensure that to start it at yours are not afforded the opportunity to hijack it did democratic process. the second lesson is we cannot afford to continue to pursue a
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myopic personality-based policy that relies on stability over institutional reform. and lebanon, we have a short-term policy based on maintaining stability and we invested significant political capital with both rafik hariri in the wake of his assassination and descendents of the pro-western march 14 block, his son, saad hariri based on egyptian law and regulation without clear standards for participation in a democratic institutional framework has a recipe for disaster. in turn and lastly to the role of the egyptian army, it has been reported that the u.s. is working behind the scenes to impress upon the egyptian military the need to protect protesters and support a peaceful government transition. and i will be asking you questions on the ministrations view on the security assistance to egypt.
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the thank you very much for being here. i'm so proud and pleased to turn to my ranking member, mr. berman of california. >> well, thank you very much, madam chairman. i'm just getting word that a lot of people are getting except possibly the deputy secretary deputy secretary of state and other sources including quotes from the prime minister of egypt that hosni mubarak is to step down following an all-day meeting of the country's pre-military meeting and all the protesters demand to be meant in any further statements expected later thursday, clarifying the situation. mubarak was also due to address a nation. yesterday's hearing -- >> we will start your time
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again. the chair would like to remind the audience members that no disturbance of the committee proceedings are allowed and if there is no order, will ask for you to be removed from the room according to house rules. mr. berman's time will now start. >> thank you, madam chairman. the rapidly evolving events in egypt as well as developments in lebanon. today it like to focus on just one aspect that is most immediately rebelling aspect of the transition each of them is the issue of when that transition will actually begin. on february 1st, president obama said that a transition in egypt must be meaningful, peaceful and begin now. at this point however, prior to
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my thinking about this, i saw we were still waiting for that beginning. there have been some important announcement, decisions that neither josé mubarak nor sue le monde would run for the presidency and the number, but nothing meaningful about intel now has actually happened, nothing that could be considered a break with business as usual as seen by the egyptian regime. madam chairman, the transition needs substance. if current egyptian leaders are reluctant to give it the substance, then the ministration is to give it a major push by setting out its own timetables and targets. the transition needs to be orderly for sure, but for most it actually needs to have been. both the regime in the opposition need to see defining action so that each begins to make what president obama called the psychological break. any number of tangible actions,
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whether it be the ending of the emergency law for the decision by president mubarak to handover of the power to his vice president, decision by the regime to bring credible opposition members into a transition government, clear indication that a new comp dictation will be written and implemented to ensure the provision of free and fair elections, secular parties to organize in the presence of monitors -- the presence of international observers and the kind of both print and television freedom that allows all parties in all places to be heard during that kind of a campaign. this type of concrete action to do happen for many reasons, but primarily for the egyptian people. the egyptian regime needs to know that it cannot twaddle or
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simply go through the motions of democratic change without any intention of genuinely transitioning democracy. it's still a visit type take. they will reap a whirlwind at home and will leave congress little choice but to take action. in other words, no slow walking. when this crisis broke out, i emphasize that my favorite continuing our security assistance program, but the duration of the program depended on whether the military played a role in the democratic transition. that is still my position, but our patience, that of my colleagues has limits. given the military's influence over the regime, a regime that was born in the military and at the same entire leadership composed of military men, that democratic transition will happen if and only if the military plays a constructive role. so mr. secretary, i'd be very glad to see you here. we have great respect for what
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you have in doing any number of areas, but i am hoping when we finish this. , will have a sense from you of when you think the democratic transition from each of will begin. we may have been helped by some of this news and how we will know it is begun and butter administration intends to do to make sure that it begins if not now, then very, very soon. >> thank you, mr. berman. and pleased to yield three and a half minutes to the chairman of our middle east subcommittee. >> thank you, madam chair and thank you for holding these important hearings. secretary steinberg with the situation in the middle east, which continues to unfold, even as we speak is the ranking member indicated with the news on mubarak today. i think it's safe to say the developments that continue to sweep across the middle east and north africa are really did
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surprise many. but for years, analysts called attention to the oath of the region, lack of respect for even the most basic human rights like freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and fair and free election as a potentially dangerous source of discontent, but it was ignored. they pointed to the widespread poverty and threats of economic policies instituted by dictators are out of touch with the plates of their respective population. they did not however predict that 126-year-old street and it desperate act of defiance would initiate a wave of anti-regime protests that are shaking the very foundations of the political order in the middle east. even those countries of which protests have not yet arrested look at countries like egypt and tunisia and jordan nervously, wondering if they themselves will be next. for years we've also been told something else. we've been told that the middle
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east is a region that is not ready for democracy. indeed, save a handful of exceptions, democracy that the region have also become a permanent assumption upon which far too much policy was based. i stayed ahead because of the past weeks the people of the middle east by taking to the streets have proclaimed loudly to the leaders into the world that they share the same principles that we cherish. they have told us that the great life, liberty and pursuit of happiness does not stop at the water's edge. while these developments are very excited about there's also a dark side, which is a cause that can turn. the specter of radical islamic groups who will exploit every opportunity to seize power is lost on no one. in egypt for over 30 years president mubarak is question every moderate, secular political party that could pose a challenge to his party, the national democratic party. the only movement which managed to survive as the muslim brotherhood, which among other
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aspirations has declared his desire to reconsider sips peace treaty with israel as well as its desire to impose sharia law. president mubarak is a close ally of the united states in the region was especially hostile to us in fighting the global war on terror. in his absence egypt enters a period of transition, we must do what we can to ensure that egypt emerges from its current crisis for stronger democratic touche and the governments, institutions that will respect the rights of women, uphold pass treaties and agreements like those other allied israel and not exploit the pillars of democratic government by collection to send a power only to abolish those pillars. we must do what we can to help support development of the institution and to avoid one man, one vote, one time. preventing the muslim brotherhood from coming to power must be a leading priority as we
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visit our apology towards egypt. the diplomacy that the u.s. has been engaging in so far they be helpful in dealing with the mubarak regime, but it does nothing to ensure that people of egypt we sympathize with their cause. that's one of our witnesses yesterday pointed out, many egyptians are unaware of the nonmilitary people we've given them, so again, i commend you, madam chair for holding this hearing could be up as they went to avoid a situation which the egyptian population looks at us while completely ignoring them. >> thank you so much. the ranking member, mr. ackerman for three and a half minutes. >> thank you, madam chair. until recently, lebanon had a democratic elected government that should've had a mandate to govern. like all of its members except for israel, lebanon had suffered from an unaccountable element to the society acting above and
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beyond the law. what was different than the lebanese case was this unaccountable few didn't occupy or use the institutions of the state in order to coerce, in order to dominate the political opponents. instead they just threaten them and then killed them. no one should forget that before the current crisis, before the insurrection of may 2008, before the presidential crisis in the lockout of parliament, hezbollah and iranian and theory and allies engaged in a campaign association against lebanese journalist that began in 2005 with the murder of former prime minister, rafik hariri. long before the recent backroom coup, hezbollah set itself above the law and outside the reach of the government. hezbollah has for years systematically weakened lebanon government and continually underline sovereignty of through need for through monitors the
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through more than through thousand and service missiles, all aimed at israel's in order to shield iran to elicit nuclear weapons program. tragically, the people of lebanon are now hostages. like the captive nations of eastern europe during the cold war, their hearts are free, but the government has polluted a foreign power to put them to change. the united states must continue to execute the lebanon sovereignty and for the restoration of legitimate government. we must continue to support and sustain the tribunal for lebanon for the people who want justice for the countrymen and their former prime ministers. america must continue to insist on the implementation above relevant u.n. security council resolutions and we must speak out clearly against the flood of illegal and destabilizing iranian arms. finally we need to be clear with the government of lebanon but it
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bears the burden of demonstrating that it truly serves the people of lebanon and that it would keep peace inside lebanon and on lebanon's borders and that it is not and will not either be a fun game for the iran credit to cater in damascus. until there is clear evidence that the roots have made these choices, i believe we have no other alternative but to spend all of our assistance programs to lebanon. we have many urgent priorities in the middle east and helping iran, helping syria and helping hezbollah and maintain a façade of lebanese independence is not one of them. thank you, madam chair. the mac thank you, mr. ackerman. the chair is now pleased to welcome our witness, james b. steinberg, deputy secretary of state, serving as the principal
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deputy for secretary clinton, appointed by president obama he was confirmed by the senate on january 28, 2009 and sworn in by the next day. prior to his appointment in the obama administration to mr. steinberg served as the dean of the lyndon b. johnson school of affairs when the vice president director of the foreign-policy studies at the brookings institute. from december 96 to august 2000, mr. steinberg served at deputy national security adviser to president bill clinton. mr. steinberg also was held numerous other posts on the state department and capitol hill. deputy secretary, thank you for attending out kindly remind you to keep your oral testimony to know more than five minutes. and without action committee or written statement will be inserted into the record. while gone. >> thank you, madam chairman. let me congratulate you on the tablet here and express how much we look forward to working with you and ranking member per
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minute all the members of the committee and express appreciation for holding this timely hearing. last month ago how come the secretary clint challenge the leaders of the middle east to give greater voice to their people in the region confronts the combination of demographic and logical changes, rapid unemployment into many cases cases the universal rate. she won the status quo. in recent weeks the dynamic has given rise to demonstrations across the region and changes in tunisia and yemen and of course sparked a dramatic developments in egypt to go along with events in lebanon for the purpose of today's hearing. such an environment is more important than other in america works with out the people in the government to democratize and open up political system and economy and society. as the secretary said a few days ago in munich, this is not simply a matter of idealism. changeful overstimulated response to different
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circumstances across the region, but our policies and partnerships are guided by the principles. we stand the universal values to create an association, assembly and speech. we oppose violent a political course and we've spoken out about the need for meaningful change in response to the demand of the people. the american administration of both parties and interpreters publicly and privately for many years and also sought cooperation on crucial priorities like counterterrorism , iran's nuclear program in the peace process. these are not mutually exclusive or even contradictory. recent events have reinforced the absent from the democratic progress, the public support needed to sustain progress on common goals cannot be achieved. changes must come, but we must be mindful to transition them into chaos and new forms of intolerance or backside into authoritarianism. we are working wherever we can to ensure political transitions are deliberate, inclusive and
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transparent. some weeks i take her to honor certain commitments because this president obama said in his cairo speech, elections are not through democracy. one constant in a changing region is of support for israel's security. we continue to believe the best path for israel in the region is the committed pursuit of comprehensive peace. by working for orderly transitions, we believe we can help ensure israel's long-term security and we will be vigilant against attempts to hijack legitimate infamous for reform to advance extremism. egypt today is undergoing a remarkable transition given the shifts leadership in the long-standing partnership, the stakes are high. we've all been transfixed by images that are rich, davenport, gathering to a claims of universal rights and join the
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democratic societies around the world. as the president has said can egypt is not going back the way it was. we declared publicly and privately that a peaceful, orderly transition must begin without delay. you must. you must make immediate irreversible progress towards free and fair elections. reset key principles to ensure the transition remains peaceful. we make clear support for human rights, including expression, association and assembly, freedom of the press. we condemn the against peaceful protesters and human rights that this was underlying the military to remain a force for stability. we are urging egypt's government and opposition to in serious negotiations to arrive at a timetable game plan to constitutional reforms. as they do we will support principles, processes and institutions, not personalities. the desire for an orderly transition may not be a pretext for backsliding.
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another vital message is the fundamental nature honoring egypt's historical peace treaty with israel. as the oldest democratic institutions after the unrest and also contend that the economic challenges, we'll continue to to extend the hand of partnership to the american people and the lack now is we've done in the past to support civil society, nongovernmental organizations, democracy groups in economic recovery. as a transition unfolds retailers support to engage and nurtured. in lebanon, a very different actuation is unfolding. last month hezbollah, backed by syria companies do to undermine the collapse of the lebanese government. we've worked with the international community with one voice to urge the lebanese government to support the special tribunal, honor its international obligations and refrain from richard nation against former officials.
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we to judge the next lebanese government by prestige, mindful of circumstances that brought it about. we'll be watching a minister to see whether he makes good on his public pledge to build a broad-based government that represents all sections of lebanese society. the lebanese people deserve better than a false choice between justice for the murder of their prime minister and stability for their country. if i could just conclude, madam chairman, by observing without commenting specifically on the recent reports as your preference, that what is critical is the unfolding dynamic is that we remain consistent in our principles and the values and interests that you bring forward. while remaining nimble to adapt to emerging is. it's a little bit like having a good game plan, but also knowing when to call an audible. i think that's overseen as we go forward here. consistent approach that identifies values that attach to
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circumstances and preserves our long-term interests and i look forward to your questions. the mac thank you so very much, sir. before yielding my time to congress when merkel, you probably have regarding you cut debate on the floor yesterday, not related to the subject of this morning's hearing. but yesterday morning, less than two hours before full consideration, we received a letter from the state department posing to you cut proposal to obstruct the u.n. to return $179 million to the u.s. because of payments be made to the u.n. tax equalization fund. a surplus that the u.n. at all submitted is payable to the u.s. your department's letter stated for the first time ever that the current surplus is now approximately 80 million. so there is a discrepancy there. if it's true companies the department of state had already given away $100 million owed
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back to the u.s. taxpayers. we have been asking for this information for the past three months and have been stonewalled by the state department. the u.n. cannot redirect the surplus fund without instructions from the united states. so i have some questions that i would like to get rid response is from you by thursday, february 17th about how this is handled. because the way that the matter was handled was that raises serious concerns in my mind about the management and the candor of the department of day. so i would appreciate it when my staff handed the letter if we could get the right response. >> to be happy to provide it. >> thank you very much. i'm pleased to yield to congresswoman burkle as the vice chair. >> thank you, madam chairman and thank you for the opportunity to address mr. steinberg.
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mr. steinberg, thank you for being here this morning. throughout the opening statements, we've heard from many of the members talking about the concern that the muslim brotherhood was that then if and when president mubarak steps down. so i am really the key being is this something the administration is making a priority of, preventing the muslim brotherhood from stepping in when not fully occurs. and beyond that, if it is a priority, with his strategy of this administration to prevent that from happening. >> thank you for the question. i think what we have focused on is a set of print mostly apply to what we expect to have been during the transition. because as i said, we recognize the transitions can be difficult for me to unpredictable results. by focusing on those expectations and conditions, the need for inclusive as it
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respects not only the need for elections, but also the institutions that protect the rights of minorities and make sure that this thing go forward, that individuals of different religions and respect is are about to be part of the process is quite critical in what to make sure the process is now led by extremists for those who do not deeply believe in the open and democratic process that we want. the process of opus one for the egyptians to decide. as we engage with whatever government emerges, will be guided by the principles. >> if you could, mr. steinberg, could you elaborate on this inclusive process in some of the specifics that the administration will put forward? >> again, i think what is important is the process driven by egyptians and cells. but we've made clear to the government of egypt as we expect the primary to the government
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itself are allowed to participate and particularly voices of the individuals that have been protesting peacefully on the street are asking for democratic change are brought in. it makes a difference voices offer that legitimate perspectives and civil society participate in these discussions. the format is when the egyptian people themselves have developed. that's the kind that we should hope for. >> if i may just follow up with that, how do you anticipate the united states of america to be an addition process, how do you see process unfolding. where would you be involved in the process? >> are first will have been to support those forces we've done that that for assistance programs. i think it's important to recognize that the number i've raised this question that we have a variety of ways of being involved in supporting civil society voices enough other than a focus on them of our assistance programs under dss, there's other programs that are
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democracy programs in peace initiatives and other ways of supporting democratic voices which we have done. we want to support them and give them the capacity to participate effectively. we want to make learner advocacy with the egyptian government that these are voices that need to be heard. i think it's not for the united states to be in the meetings themselves. we want this to be a process that is driven by legitimate voices in egyptian society. >> and one last question. do you believe you follow this process do you just outlined for us, that that will be sufficient for the united states to keep the muslim brotherhood from stepping in? is that going to be a sufficient energy to prevent that from happening? >> i think the tsa said in my opening remarks is to have a clear set of principles that this will we expect and what from our is an acceptable
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outcome for a new government moving forward, not just for interest, although our interests are critical, but also the egyptian people. and to judge that his defense of marriage. i think rather than to anticipate potential outcomes, the attack is an responsive enough to recognize is the thing we can identify concerns as they emerge be vigilant and make sure that we find potentially dangerous emerging trends. this is part of the reason why we focus on the need for an orderly process to make sure it's not start by judges which will set up an entire machine. >> thank you, mr. steinberg. >> thank you, congresswoman. i'm pleased to yield to mr. berman of california. >> thank you, madam chairman and secretary steinberg for your testimony and your leadership here. i'd like to follow up on ms. merkel's initial question.
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the administration position regarding the participation of the muslim brotherhood and the transition and subsequent government. i certainly agree in the end the egyptian people are going to decide these questions. there is an article in the current egyptian constitution, currently requiring their religion because data politics. turkey has had a similar provision in its constitution. does the administration have a view as to whether each of should retain the principle in the next phase of its governance? >> mr. berman, i think what is important is that the next government despite the kind of democratic principles we talked about, which is commitment to democracy for one election, but for all the fabric of democracy. open institutions, open debate, tolerance of diversity and religious minorities. the ability of people to pursue
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different paths free of harassment, and recognition you to the vibrant civil society. there are different ways the constitutions can embody that. different ways in which countries allow religion to play a role in their lives. you know, for example, our friends and allies in europe sidles for religion and society, so i think you can have an absolute rule of how that applies, but it is pretty clear that we need to have the will be clear in her own mind that allowing this to become a secret government that is intolerant and does not provide an opportunity for a free full expression of religious rights, minority rights, freedom for all the different voices in egyptian society supports him. what is encouraging if you look to the people who are out and curator square is exactly that. people from different religions and backgrounds and viewpoints on the role of islam in society. and that is when these to be
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preserved in something we would find quite important in any constitution that would be adopted by future government. >> i support the administration's decision not to suspend the assistance program up till now. but i have noticed the white house press secretary robert gibbs back in january 28th at the u.s. will be reviewing the posture based on evidence that take place in the coming days. as i review ongoing? what is the nature of that review? under what circumstances that the admin is a should consider suspending aid to reach a. and just an observation that i'd recommend the administration look towards the whole issue of export controls on things like teargas canisters, items that are mostly relevant to the
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suppression of peaceful protesters. i think there is some value in perhaps eliminating those items for the interim. >> mr. berman, i think you would expect family to always keep our assistance programs, not just for egypt but elsewhere. congressman ackerman raised questions about what to make sure we do the same there because we have to be responsive to ongoing events. and i won't suggest there are some circumstances where events they risa we would have to change our approach. but will we have focused on your residents have been emerging in egypt is how to encourage the transition, how to use our influence to try to move the process interaction that would like to see it go and that meets the needs and wishes of the egyptian people. and i think we have to be prepared to deal with offenses
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they emerge, but we don't want to try to anticipate outcomes in a way that would make it less likely that we achieve good outcomes. >> i agree with that. adjust in the end don't want the notion that the insurance of that assistance to become a basis for this are walking of the orderly transition. one last question with all the focus on egypt, i need one moment to sort of discussed how the situation may be affect the situation outside of egypt, such as iran. my specific question is whether the state department is on track to make determinations on their investigation for those violating society, our iran sanctions legislation next month. being a congressman, as you know, this is an issue i spend a lot of time with your press secretary for me to put a lot of specific attention to make sure
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we have various implementation. it's been enormously helpful to let us have enormous impact in helping us to galvanize the international community take steps to put additional pressure on iran. i think we've had enormous success that can use in a comprehensive way to affect iran to the iranian also to the sense of isolation. so we understand the importance of making sure we have fallen for the past and we have an ongoing effort of clicking on activities as they emerge and they continue to pledge to you will do everything we need to do both to enforce it, but also to use this statute in a broader way to engage with other countries to make clear that we need to remain vigilant not only about the letter of law, but the broader desire to make sure that we don't have companies trying to skirt those provisions. >> thank you so much. now for the next round of questions, mr. smith, chairman of the subcommittee on africa
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global health and human rights. >> manager, thank you very much. is the administration did peter until his utility and usefulness guerrillas or evaporates or diminishes and then the administration assigned its public voice in democracy and close on the farmer friend to get out of town. you mentioned, mr. steinberg, a moment ago about the few principles and i think we have words about that. a few weeks ago, president obama rolled out the red carpet as president who gentile came into washington, april the tator was murdered, tortured of tibetans and weaker scum of press conference with hu jintao was so discouraging. president obama made hu jintao look good on rate. the president defended his
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friend -- his dictator friends inside the chinese had a different culture, which i found to be an absolute insult to the chinese people, especially those suffering and are being tortured for demanding their fundamental human rights. he was a singularly a different political system and that was the defense and that's what the "washington post" picked up five, different systems and dictatorship. my question is, you know, i think we need to be questioned and i would respectfully submit to you the questions we talk about consistency and principles, even though chevelle, as we all know something was said behind the scene, but we need public statement, not one that dictatorship is in its final hours, but consistently and in a very transparent passion let them know we know. i read all the chinese press after the fact in people's daily, at least mystery there there. they called hu jintao trip to
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washington a tour de force that he took over washington that we were sitting there by the effort we shared. i'm very concerned when you talk about this. i do have a question about freedom of press and reporters in particular. reporters without borders suggested as many as 79 journalists have been attacked in egypt or 76 detained, one has been killed. do we know how high up in the command, whether or not the army, military, mubarak ordered that or did he come from the muslim brotherhood or was it just an outgrowth of the chaos of the day each day. and secondly, i'd like to ask about a very disturbing report that an american company has sold the egyptian government what is called deep packet inspection technology, highly advanced technology that allows the purchaser to e-mails as they passed to the internet routers. reporters from free press is based on the information itself
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has revealed about it is nice. there's no way the revealing whether the egyptian government queen from its technology and able to attend the eye or detained so many journalists or anybody else in nietzsche. i would like to know what we know about this company and it is part of boeing has recently bought. what can you tell us about this invasion of privacy on the internet? >> thank you, congressman. obviously we could have an extended conversation about china, which i would welcome to discuss with you. i would just make one point that the remarks of the president made, before president hu came here she identified her concerns about peter showboat and other specific to cement. they didn't give a clear and unequivocal importance we attach to human rights in china, so we appreciate the importance and i think it is something we have made a part of faith engage with
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china. with respect to the journalists, we have made clear -- many priorities and we've been explicitly very clear about him except ability of the imprisonment and the like. i think difficult to answer your question who is behind it. because of the intervention of us and others, journalists have been released and it's important to keep a focus on that because it has and the critical voice of us kept the public has a near some not. and your second question, obviously not familiar with the company you identify, but i'd be happy to see what we know. >> did you get to that. it's very important. it goes to the whole issue of increasingly the u.s. corporations are enabling the tator ships who sought in iran with a german corporation. we send it in china, belarus, where the internet was used and misused to track down dissidents
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to invade e-mails, find out who they are talking to. it's also a tool of repression according to these reports have been enabling that kind of invasion of privacy. the thank you very much. tonight thank you. we would appreciate answers to that. mr. ackerman, the ranking member of the middle east subcommittee. >> thank you very much. consistency is important, especially in foreign policy. a foolish consistency is something much to be avoided. there is a question that keeps asking itself -- some of us are asking that and it demands a freelancer. would you agree on the principle of freedom of speech and freedom of communication that we could agree how important it is to democratic and civil society?
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echoes the question that there's information out there that can of virus, which you say that would be welcome in your computer? if the purpose of the virus was to bring down the system? the question is about the muslim brotherhood. the society for sure. and we have principles that are all elements of societies are welcome and everybody has the right and freedom of religion and tender. now i believe in reading my neighbor as myself. but that doesn't tell me that i should invite jeffrey dahmer to
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my house for dinner. nothing good will come of that. how do you form a government and while common elements of it -- a party that would destroy the government health clinics this is a tough question and we really have to think about it. in being civil in democratic and welcoming, we also have two avoid these foolish. >> thank you on mr. ackerman. obviously this is an important question. ..
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is not so much the dialogue that's going on now but what kind of government emerges. once this transition takes place. devotee we've had a consistent record in saying that there are circumstances in which parties fail to respect democracy, failed to be an accepted a participant in dug that we wouldn't be supportive of that happening. in a very clear case of that is with hamas and palestinian authority. we made our position very clear.
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i don't want to try to anticipate what's going to be the outcome of this process of democratization in egypt, but i do think we will bring the same set of principles together which is what a government that will have our support is one that respects open society. >> my concern is due one that we be as wise as we could be considering. what a non--- lebanon. what happens if the new government of lebanon rejects what ever the results of the tribunal might indicate? >> i think i need to point about this which is one we attach enormous support in the tribunal, and we will do what we can to sustain the effort your respective of with the decisions are in the government. it is our clear expectation that
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whatever government is formed will meet its international obligations of respect to the tribunal and that is what we will expect to hold them to. islamic if lebanon pulled its support from the tribunal some think it would collapse. are we considering withholding aid from lebanon? >> as i mentioned earlier by the we keep the assistance of the review. right now we're focused on trying to encourage all parties including the the prime minister designate to make sure we of the increase of government that needs to set its obligations so long as that continues at least up until now that has not been undermined we are continuing our assistance but obviously we have to keep that under review and look at the circumstances as they emerge. >> thank you so much, mr. ackerman. great question. so pleased to yield five minutes to the chair of the subcommittee on middle east and south asia.
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mr. shavit for five minutes. >> thank you petraeus secretary, have a number of questions. some of them have already been talked about to some degree, but clearly we all want democracy, we won the people of egypt to improve their conditions and freedoms. our overriding concern is that what we all want is going to end up with the folks that we've come and i don't think that the egyptians themselves, the vast majority want to be in control and that is muslim brotherhood or islamic jihad or whatever terminology that one wants to use. could you comment -- they said a lot of things and i think they are trying to portray themselves as more moderate now and could you talk a little about the sharia law and what they said and what you think the position is with respect to egypt if they
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would gain control? >> i think there's a lot of speculation else to what the buckles and objectives are, and i think i would prefer to leave that to the analysts'. what i would say with respect to the policy makers point of view is that we have to be clear about what anybody joining the government would be expected to commit to and that is 2 a.m. open tolerant society that allows for religious and diversity for differences of opinion that doesn't undermine civil society that supports and open the scores in all elements of society and rather than participate with any member organization is that hold to those principles we make clear what its future the government must commit themselves. we must be clear with the position is to be >> do what they're saying about sure real law at this time? >> the difficulty i'm familiar
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with their lights and i think what we know is that there are differences in which sharia law has been used in different societies some of them tolerant, some of them very intolerant and we need to focus on what will protect the liberties and the next government of this organization cannot support and subscribe to those things we believe it would be inconsistent with the very efforts going on right now. >> use of some of the intolerant and intolerant. can you give me and example of tolerance sharia law? >> what i say, mr. chairman, is that there are examples of where in domestic law like the sharia law has been a positive, but what we're focusing on is with the political wall is and the circumstances under which the government should govern and that has to meet these basic principles we are identifying so what are the political rights, what are the opportunities for
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the society and citizens to exercise the rights and for the religious minorities. one of the strengths of egyptian society is the fact they played such an important role and there is a small jewish community and other religious minorities, so if the sharia law means no tolerance for that the no wouldn't be something we support. >> let me ask you this on a different topic relative to the turkish model. there are obviously some parallels and differences between turkey and egypt but if the military pays a stabilizing historic role what are the comparisons with that in egypt and are there differences? >> i think what has been encouraging and has been a positive aspect of our engagement is that this far as the events have unfolded the military has expected the right for the peaceful assembly and has not tried to suppress the
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legitimate rights of people to express their views to assemble and the like, and we would hope any society, any government that emerges that we would have the same commitment from the role of the military which is to support legitimate constitutional human-rights, and that's something we would look to in any society that to see that as role of the military. >> i've only got a short period of time. let me comment on something that's kind of frustrating to the policy makers here in washington. i'm sure the american people to some degree, and that's with the considerable resources that we've invested in both those two countries, egypt and turkey when you do public opinion polls of the people of those countries, united states isn't particularly well thought of. i don't know if you to comment on that. i don't know if that is because we are so close they expect more, etc., but do you have a comment on that? >> i think it's an important challenge to us and it's critical as we go forward we
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find ways to understand why that is to the extent we can consistent with our own principles and values the we try to do that. there may be circumstances in which, we are unpopular for things we believe and we will stand up for them, but i feel if we can do a better job of communicating and indicating that we do share the aspirations of people all around the world for better life and opportunity that it is important and it's been a major focus on what secateurs clinton has tried to do. >> thank you. i would like to recognize mr. gregory meeks of new york for the next round of five minutes. thank you. >> thank you, madame chair. >> good to see mr. secretary. one of the things i do get concerned about that i know a lot of my colleagues and i talk about the muslim brotherhood etc., however, if in fact we seem heavy-handed, sometimes it's like the child you tell
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them don't the to this person and the date this person despite you i want to make sure we don't get into that scenario, and i have tremendous faith in the egyptian people with what i've seen this far. they want to make sure they have democracy because the have been denied for 30 years. that being said, when you don't want to happen is to be a vacuum so that someone like the brotherhood steps up and what concerns me is with the opposition, and i don't know who or what can or will people because it seems as though there is a -- they are leaderless and when you begin the negotiations and conversations there has to be someone that's talking, so i'm just wondering whether i had asked this question yesterday who are the leaders we could expect to emerge and is their
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anything you could tell about them and can the protesters achieve the goals basically without a leader? 01 to tie that in as quickly as i could to the fact that there was a lack of clear leadership in the tunisian revolution also and how that is going because the concern about going to two nisha quickly about the assessment of the security situation. there was more violence this weekend of the protest and would cost of action toward holding the four regimes and the security service accountable for the past abuses would be conducive to the greater political openness without contributing to the great destabilization. >> thank you, congressman. there are -- we shouldn't underestimate a lot of important and well respected civil society places in egypt from the ngo and the legal profession and the
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like who may form a part of the future egyptian government. i think it is both difficult to predict and not our role to sort of only individuals to be the ones, but i do think that that's why we are so much focus on urging of the government to create a process that allows them to come together to rise in this meeting and others which do include a variety of well respected voices in the society but also to make sure that the young girl people who are on the streets also have a chance to express their views and have those perspectives heard. i think there's the nature of the space process is to not try to preselect the leaders of this troublesome and institutions that would then offer a free and fair election where individuals to stand for the elections and people will pick and i feel we have a real belief that process can take place and what needs to happen now is to the institutional decisions to the emergency law to take the steps
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to allow the parties to register for there to be to have an election to have those important voices being heard throughout the egyptian society now to put their views forward. >> onto nisha i would say we do think accountability is important. different societies have different ways and different situations that's been done but i think it's something that the interim government is focusing on is to establish the accountability and understanding the growth of what happens during the past regime and the transition and we would certainly support that. >> are we dealing with to nisha again and the packets that are currently focused on the military assistance and is it more assistance needed by space institutions as has the new government requested assistance from the united states for the purpose of supporting the reform agenda and will the continuation of the military programs become to undo the upon the human rights benchmarks or other benchmarks?
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>> well, clearly on the last we are under a mandate from you to make sure that it does, and so that would be an important part of what we do. more broadly we have been engaged with conversations and the government in terms of how we can support and help that transition and as we say that is part of the flexibility and adaptability we are trying to show is to look for opportunities to support the process, and forward. >> let me just ask what level of success would you anticipate from the tunisian islamic groups if they are allowed to compete in the promise in the next six months? >> again, congressman, i think we have a basic principle which is that we will support and encourage governments that need the basic test tolerance inclusiveness and openness and rather than try to prejudge what the groups will we will judge them by their deeds. >> thank you. before yielding five minutes to my florida colleague mr. rivera,
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i would like without objection the ranking member to be a recognized an announcement. >> we have just learned and i think on behalf of the chair and the interior committee want to extend our condolences and the condolences of the entire committee to the loved ones and of how ramadan this is a fellow who is a u.s. embassy staff employees for 18 years, went missing from his home on january 28 and just today has been confirmed as dead so on behalf of all of us -- >> it is a tribute to the dedicated staff and the risks that they take and on behalf of all those we appreciate it.
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>> mr. rubiera. >> thank you so much for being here. i am heartened by your testimony regarding the impact of the crisis in egypt fees of the israel. i'm glad you agree that the respective what every emerges out of the circumstances in egypt that the u.s. interest remained constant and that egypt continue to honor its commitment to peace and israel. i'm wondering if you could elaborate and please, be as specific as possible as to what exact message the united states is delivering, has been delivered, will be delivering to all parties regarding egypt's commitment to peace with israel. >> the p street and israel and egypt is not just in the
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interest of israel is in the interest of the whole, therefore we would expect any government to honor its international commitment that was signed by that government and remain committed not just in the matter of spirit. this is the foundation for egypt's future success that the prospect of conflict of israel would serve no interest in egypt, so certainly not be consistent with our interest. i.t. we are very an equivocal about our position, but also making very clear this isn't a favor to anyone else but egypt should continue and the reason we would expect egypt to continue is is in their interest. >> the u.s. has sold a great deal of military equipment to egypt, and the same time we have been deeply committed to israel's qualitative military edge and centrally their ability to defend itself. part of the calculus of providing weapons to egypt is as it was committed to peace with
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israel. if egypt's commitment toward peace with israel changes, how will that affect future decisions about the sale and maintenance of weapons systems to the egyptians? >> congressman, obviously any kind would be a dramatic change in circumstance we have to take in account in making our decisions but our focus now on the positive message which is the benefits of engagement that we have had with egypt and the egyptian military and therefore would expect them to see the benefits of continuing this and continuing to that basic process which has led to this long period of peace between israel and egypt. >> based on your experience and the development that you are seeing occur right now, do you see egypt continuing to play a positive role on issues in general regional stability for the example, opposition to iran's nuclear program, stand to
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islamic radicalism etc? >> i would have every reason to expected that a more space egypt would be at least as much committed to those principles because in a space society all the things you talked about our to the democratic society. and so the kind of intolerance and support for terrorism and the things that we would be concerned about are something that a strong and vibrant space government need to also share. i think that's been our experience. if you look at the world who are our strong partners of these global challenges not just the shared felch gispert shared interests. dealing with iran who are the strong partners in europe, the space society is there. we are working with japan and korea. we believe strongly that in terms of these interests with 30 is sustaining peace in the least of dealing with terrorism and iran's nuclear program that an open confide in the egyptian government would be very much in sync with those views and perspectives. >> up to this moment here today, you see no indications whether
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that be from any element of egyptian society, military or otherwise, civil society, other elements of the government, that these prospects for change in a negative fashion. >> we have to be vigilant. we have seemed even sometimes not fully predictable, but i think what we need to do is encourage and support those forces to reduce the chances of those happening, and the whole strategy is to do that by engaging in supporting this process to reduce the risk which he readily identify and we have to be alert don't emerge. >> thank you. i yield back the remainder of my time. >> now we would like to yield to one other colleague, congressman leach for five minutes of opening question. >> thank you madam chair. i would like to pick up where my colleague from florida left off and brought in from there. starting on the issue not just to egypt but aid to israel as well it gives us a good jumping
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off point for the broad debate taking place on capitol hill and that has to do with foreign aid more generally. there are proposals that have been floating around that have suggested that state department and foreign aid should be lumped in with more on security spending and subject to cuts reductions between ten to 30%. the -- given the state department's role in pakistan and in afghanistan and iran the war on terror, given the national security concerns that we have, and further, given the role of the foreign aid please not just in the middle east, not just helping israel ensure that they have the military edge, but the rolph for av please and maternal care, children's health, the role that foreign aid please fighting global ponder and in fighting marco traffickers of latin america and in continuing president bush's
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signature in combating aids in africa. reconstruction, counterterrorism i wonder if and given from the suggestions that have been made to eliminate foreign aid altogether and suggestions from some outside prominent outside groups that all foreign aid should be on the table is inappropriate, do you believe, mr. secretary, for us to look at what is 1% or less of the federal budget in finding ways to balance the budget by e eliminating the assistance altogether and wouldn't the elimination of the foreign aid but our nation not greater? >> thank you, congressman. as you can imagine the secretary and all of us feel strongly with the president this is a critical part of assuring the national interest. our ability to engage in the world and support space institutions, to build economic opportunity, to deal with the problems of health and hunger
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are all critical questions were asked earlier about how the world works in america and this is part of the positive engagement that allows us to build friends, to have support on our interests, and the touch on the national interest ourselves. if we don't deal with the problems of the global public health those could come home to us. it's having a strong balanced strategy of smart power, engagement in the world that has a strong defense but also supports the development and diplomacy that allows the united states to pursue which interest over the long term and have the kind of partners we need to move forward. we've had four and success in iraq we need to sustain. would be a tragedy right now with all that's been achieved and the sacrifice is taking place not to continue the progress. a good example of a space tolerant society in iraq which is a very powerful signal throughout the region including to egypt to continue to make sure the extremists don't come back and afghanistan. we know what happened before and we have a critical issue to
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again echo so much of what you have been discussing this morning about how we ensure that extremism doesn't come back is by supporting tolerant more open political society and good governance or the rule of law. these are the things we do with assistance rims and engagement to the civil society. they are critically important to the national interest, and as we think about our long-term future and the role of the united states and the world, this is an absolutely indispensable party, so we do hope as we understand the fiscal challenges, but this is a very small part of the budget. it's critically important for fundamental national security interest of the united states. >> justin and mr. secretary, am i correct that the foreign assistance budget if it is about 1% of the overall budget, and could speak to what a cut of 10- 30% across the board might mean, how would that impact the american foreign policy? >> i think it would affect us across the board. it would mean we would not be
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able to sustain engagement on the civilian side in iraq because it's so important we make sure the transition moves forward, that the reconciliation sticking place continues. it would affect our ability to support civil society and democracy and our ability to deal with dhaka problems of hunger and creating sustainable agriculture and the ability to deal with the problems of global public health and ability to support the kind of work we need to do around the world to build strong institutions and we are right now having good opportunities we engaged the opportunities are even greater if we see and smartly apply those resources we have an obligation to you to make sure that they are targeted, they are well conceived and well managed but in return we think we deliver a benefit, and i think that no one more articulate than secretary gates has made clear how important it is to the national security. >> finally come to those who suggest we ought to eliminate foreign aid altogether, i
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suggest to them they would be putting the nation at risk. would you agree with that? >> it is a critical part of course not power engagement of the world, the three legs of the school that all of the present survivors recognize are critical to the national security, and that has over our history we go back to the marshall plan and so many other examples of how we sustain our long-term influence to protect or interest by the use of resources in this area. our military cannot protect our national interest alone. we see that in iraq and afghanistan. it has to be a balanced effort and our contribution, the part that goes to the state department and assistance is small to the defense but it has a huge multiple year affect and huge positive impact on the well-being of the american people. also on the economic side it helps open up economically to nettie that creates opportunity for american jobs and exports. that's what our diplomats to every day advocating for the interest opening markets and the like, so there are many ways in which the u.s. interest is being
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protected by this rather modest election. >> thank you mr. secretary and i yield back. >> thank you mr. deutsch. mr. rohrabacher, the chairman of the subcommittee on oversight and investigations. >> following up on my last colleagues line of questioning, putting america in jeopardy, let me just note, putting it at a much greater level than we are talking about is $1.5 trillion worth of deficit spending a year that we have to borrow from china. we cannot maintain that, and if we continue to do that, our economy will collapse under a burden of debt that we have never experienced before. so this is not oh boy, we'd love to do this and we'd love to do that, no, there are certain things we have to come to grips with and be serious about. i will tell you borrowing more
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money from china in order to give it to other people in different countries is not something i consider to be a positive option. it's crazy. it's insane. and we have been providing aid to egypt over all of these years we seem to be high and mighty about how that mr. mubarak is, but i supported this aid program that egypt all these years, it seems to me that american foreign policy is not based on principle as you have suggested today or has been instead it is based on juggling what do we do for the moment not to create a crisis rather than have a long-term principal policy modeled we can do for the world but what is best for the people of the united states of america.
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>> would the gentleman yield? >> no i want. i have a line of questioning i would like to ask to be a we have so much juggling and going on that we can't have someone like yourself answer hastert question about the nature of the sharia law how we expect to have the american people and people of the world understand where we draw the line. we cannot people jump up and applaud that mr. mubarak is gone what's going to happen to years down the road when we have an administration in egypt that puts women in jail much less permitting them to participate in the system if they try to go on the street without wearing a veil is that what we are going to end up with, with mubarak
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ghana? we are trying not to end up with that. i've been dismayed that through all of these years they have taken an administration in each of which is less than space, less than honest, we've known that, but we treated them well, and then as soon as the pro-western government and as soon as they are vulnerable, we turn on them with a vengeance as compared to an anti-democratic regime in iran when the demonstrators in the street against them with we have a muffled response we can't really go in and side with the demonstrators against this anti-american millo regime dictatorship in iran we can't do that because the would be just intrusive. in each of to have a friendly regime as i say we don't just
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toss mubarak, whose trip to be a force for stability, we don't just toss him under the laws, we tossed into the walls and then we are surprised when the bulls beat an hour lunch -- when the wolves eat our lunch. mubarak, president mubarak offered to say that he would not be a candidate and his son would not be a candidate and he would oversee basically a caretaker regime until the september elections were held and the people of egypt were permitted to make the decision as to what direction the country should go. what was wrong with that? >> congressman, let me briefly comment on the first first and then i will -- >> you have 30 seconds. [laughter] >> i think our position on sharia law is important and it was illustrated dramatically in the case of a proposal for the
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institution of sharia law in afghanistan, which would have deprived women of their rights and been unacceptable to the united states and we made it clear to president karzai and the government it was unacceptable. i don't think there's a lack of clarity or understanding on our part about where the red wines are to the address and your question but i want to make it clear from our perspective we do understand that point. >> let's assume the question to disconnect thank you to be the was a good exchange. thank you for those questions. mr. keating is recognized for five minutes. >> secretary steinberg. >> during who got iranian protest people saw how the iranians people used the social media. it's no longer the affect of the internet on the e egyptian uprising, and they used water,
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facebook, youtube to gain a following in the country, and the admiration of much of the world in the process. however, many american people were shocked to know years ago they were using the social media and to monitor protests and down opposition leaders and even worse we discover the companies as was mentioned why congressmen's met with the presence in the united states helping the reason exploit technology and violence. so when the egyptian government can come and sit cyber crackdown frankly no one was surprised i don't think that followed that. the american company is involved in this instance as well. company in california sold the egyptian to monitor the internet and crack down and i also understand that the pakistani
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government telecom companies and saudi company have this, and it's no secret to anyone but neither has there growing record on human rights. i'd like to know what the department is doing to work with american companies that are selling their technology in these products around the world to ensure these are not at obstacles of human rights at best or the tool of violence at worst we require and in the use monitoring agreement. do you think such an agreement makes sure u.s. technology is not abused should that be considered. thank you. >> congressman, as i mentioned, i'm not familiar with the specific case but we will get back to you on that. more generally one of the things we tried to do as we work with the civil society is both to promote openness and support their access to the alternative
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media, but frankly to also help them understand the dangers and the risks, and i think that it's two sides of the coin, and that we have to be alert to the dangers that will be used by people for the wrong reasons. so, part of our educational effort and work is to help the groups in civil society protect themselves and take measures to be sensitive to these. in terms of the specific technologies without knowing the specifics it's hard to make a general observation that i think it is something that we should take under advice. >> i would ask if there's any discussion along those lines, i would like to know myself, and i sure many members of the committee would like to know that because indeed people are losing their lives based on this technology, and it's not a stretch to say that it's being used as a weapon by some of these other companies and as such, should be treated that way in and use monitoring agreements, so i would be curious to know how you feel on that. >> thank you to read to get back to us.
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thank you. without objection i would like to yield myself 30 seconds of time to welcome back and congratulate and say thank you to a member of our foreign affairs, a member of our majority staff who just returned from a year of military service in her kandahar afghanistan. thank you. it's good to have you back. [applause] with that i would like to yield five minutes of questioning to the subcommittee chairman on europe and eurasia. >> i thank the gentlelady for yielding and appreciate you being here, mr. steinberg. my big concern is the united states first and our very close ally, israel in the middle east. and towards that end, it appears to me that there is still a great deal of uncertainty right now. we are getting all kind of reports on what's going on, and
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nobody knows for sure what's happening but we do know there's been a people not only in egypt but other countries and we get about 30% of our energy from that part of the world. although the decision on exploring for energy in the united states will not rest with the state department the state department has a role to play in deciding where our national security interests lie, and right now if we have problems over there in the service can now come and egypt is the suez canal or if things get that in the persian gulf states or if -- and we see some people who are concerned about people to be cut things in iraq, if things go because of iran, if we could see our supply of energy diminished dramatically, the state
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department obligation is the need to start expressing that to the administration. the administration -- bigot about 30% of our energy from the pull into the persian gulf, about 20% from venezuela who is in league with tehran right now, so there's half of our energy coming and we can't get permits to drill in the gulf. we can't do all of the continental shelf or in anwar or for natural gas, we had t. boone pickens here the last couple of days talking about that, and we have the ability to be energy independent within a decade. there's no question about it. we have more energy in this country collectively including the gas and oil, coal shale that can be converted into oil. anyplace in the world there's no question about it but we are not moving in that direction, so we are still dependent on the middle east, and they have a life and death grip on us if
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anything goes awry so i would like you to answer the question why is it that it isn't more attention being paid by this administration and the state department to the security of the nation both economically and militarily because we are not moving toward energy independence. not only that, but if you talk to the average person who's seen free dollars and 50 cents for gasoline knowing it's going to go five or six if things get out of control they say if we have that ability why don't we do something about it? so where is the state department on this issue and why isn't state department and secretary clinton talking to the president about the long-term issue of what happens if things go in the wrong direction in that part of the world? make no mistake if you look at the book from 1776 to now, which i hope he will read in the state department, you will see that the people in that part of the world is a constant, and our
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security depends on it so weigel we are concerned about democracy and everything else, one in the world is the state and the administration talking about moving toward energy independence? >> mr. chair, it is a complex issue for the administration but in terms of the other parts of the administration that are engaged, and i'm not the spokesman in that respect but i can't talk about some other things -- >> collected as the department and tell them to talk to the at a demonstration about our national security. we are supposed to work with other nations in the world to bring about stability and we use foreign policy and foreign aid to do all that, but the number one responsibility of government according to the constitution of the united states is to protect this country economically and militarily, and we are risking that right now and all you have to do is look at what's going on not only in egypt but other
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countries in the battle east. >> if you look at our energy strategy, the president has indicated the importance of developing domestic sources. we talked about in addition to oil and gas there are other sources like efforts to provide nuclear energy. we are also working to diversify its we are not depending on the dangerous areas how for example the agreement we are supporting with mexico to have access with activities on the boundary in the gulf. on was just in africa looking at an opportunity to have access with gana, a democracy that has -- >> i'm talking about energy we have here in the u.s.. >> thank you, mr. steinberg. your time has run out. mr. burton, i think you made your point quite clear and we would appreciate if you could get back to mr. burton about dhaka, about energy independence and the at minister's plan. thank you. >> thank you madame chair i also
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want to welcome our guests and things you for being here. and thank you, mr. sick carry the co -- mr. secretary. to follow mr. burton steve question, with the constitutional provision in the constitution with respect to the religious parties that it's possible to repeal the provision but haven't sufficiently -- a government that is sufficiently tolerant to satisfy you or satisfy the department that it will protect the interests of the egyptian people and our international interest or is it the administration position that that prohibition ought to remain as a part of the egyptian constitution? because it sounded as if you were not committed or the administration was not committed at least advocate for the preservation of that. >> but we are committed to advocating for the principle. i think that it would be a bit perilous for us to write the constitution in the context that we are doing.
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there may be other formulations with a principle, but i don't want any ambiguity about the importance of the principle. again, that's why in my conversation earlier, you know, i mentioned some cases where we have advocated very vigorously where that principle was inconsistent with basic values. so that is what we will focus on going forward is the basic consistent principles and there would be the way we are judged. >> also, would you tell me -- it seems as if there is a tremendous concern about from everyone that has spoken to us about the role of the brotherhood in the future egyptian government, and i'm wondering what your impression is with respect to the likelihood of that happening, interestingly of course when president mubarak first met with them in response to the protest which suggested those of us that they may have a more significant role in the future government and eject the and we might have first thought. so what you think is the likely role they would play, and then
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second, do we have strategies or an approach which would help to assure that funding doesn't go from the muslim brotherhood to hamas moving forward? >> well, we are very focused and we are very vigilant because of the risk that this process become hijacked by extremists, by individuals and groups that don't reflect or respect the principles we think people are demonstrating for, and we are obviously going to have to judge that by what emerges. there's an infinite number of possibilities that might come forward, but we have to be clear that we expect the next egyptian government to have an advanced values of openness, tolerance, allowing people to pursue an open life with their human rights respective of diversity and particularly on issues like religious freedom, on women's rights, the right to have freedom of expression of the press of assembling, and we will apply those criteria with a real
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recognition of the history we've seen in the dangers that a process which might begin. so if it ever challenge right now is rather than trying to specifically what will happen if it goes wrong is to focus on what we can help it go right and to be prepared to deal with it and to be clear that it would be consequences if the outcome is one that is not consistent with our values and interests. right now i think what is critical was to talk about reform, and i think by articulating those principles, by identifying what we expect and believe it is in the interest of the egyptian people and what we think they are out there on the streets for. i think that creates a positive engagement for us, not one -- again, being vigilant but not based on the fear of the worst, but also an opportunity to achieve this good result. but again, we must remain vigilant and we will be prepared to make it clear what we are going to deal with those circumstances.
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>> thank you for your very articulate testimony to approach the foreign policy in a balanced way and it's clear to me that it's the national security interest of the country to make the kind of investment we are making around the world both to avoid greater costs for the fate to become fully engaged but also to maintain our authority so that we can do the work on behalf of the american people both in terms of supporting our economy and security so this question of foreign aid is a good one but it's not something done to help other nations but it's done principally to help the united states maintain its position internationally and protect our economy and national security and i thank you for those comments as well and i yield back the balance of my time. >> now we would like to hear from the chairman ed rice of the foreign affairs committee on terrorism nonproliferation and treat.
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>> mr. steinberg, i met with a group of 70 egyptians from cairo el alexandria just recently to come to the united states, many of them young professionals and i ask them to give me their opinions what needs to be done and they just going to share with you sort of their list from the front lines and the observation they make news they share with me that we need strict implementation of international human rights law in this country and there should be some discussion of this in the united states. a guarantee of basic freedoms by holding accountable those who violate international human-rights laws. the second thing they see missing from the discussion is the end to all discriminatory acts that are based on ethnicity and sex and religion throughout all sectors of society, and most important, some kind of discipline for those who violate
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a provision. the escort eradication of ideology in the education system and install because those installed discriminations and hatred among students starting at the preschool level and all the way to the university level this is partly because they say the muslim brotherhood has gotten control in the educational system and is using it for that purpose. these are the young students in the streets. they want awareness of the imminent danger of radical religious groups in egypt such as the muslim brotherhood which to some extent they say is funded by iran and one of the things the report is walking around money and there is food that has been provided by the iranians, and it's annoying to those leading the charge that they have on the streets a foreign influence and they would
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like that known. they say that this group is already infiltrated the backbones of some of the egyptian society, and they ask for a reaffirmation to the judicial system which currently supports a corrupt regime and doesn't provide justice to the citizens through the implementation of law. as a bribery and corruption of the normal within most of the judicial branch and the report of the in professionals told me they pay as many as 20, 25 bribes to get a little business going or to be professionals and it's just creating -- we heard from her and ando desoto's report. the finance minister, foreign finance minister i think it was of egypt who supported the work. hernando does his study and shows how you can on the leash of this potential growth of
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egypt because you only know who owns 10% of the property and nobody can start a business without doing pay off, so he leaves out the reform and the first thing the government does is to stack their minister who support these reforms. that shows us how much has to be done here, so i would just add to your talking points when you talk about this, a government that respects its people, that's what we want from egypt, a government that respects people and is and corrupt. let's add that to the talking points. i just wanted your opinion about what the students of the young professionals have told me. >> i think that is an enormously constructed agenda and one that should be shared. the issues that you have raised are of concern and importance to the long-term success. that is part of what we hope to it is the sort of thing especially i want to increase the share especially on the rule
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of corruption which is a big concern, and especially critical to the future. thank you for those suggestion. >> there's one other point to make. there's a lot of good places such as the council of the wise which was formed after the january 25th revolution as well as many other voices in the e egyptian society that are well known that are at my year by the people and are not part of the muslim brotherhood. and every one of them was absolutely in terror of what might happen if we end up negotiating and help putting the muslim brotherhood in positions of responsibility because as they shared with me, you know, that is an organization that only exists to take power, put in place the islamist society and then carry all the rest of the agenda which the next thing we know there will be war with israel if the get control of the government because that's if you talk to the young people in the
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muslim brotherhood that's where they are driving the cadre of the street. that's the ideology, and so can you keep them out of the equation? i know we discussed this earlier, but can you do something to help those voices in egypt the verso frightened of the consequence? >> i think that should be our objective and that is what we are trying to do. as i said we have a program to address this but we can and will do more. >> thank you. thank you, mr. chairman. my colleague from new york, good to see you. you're recognized for five minutes. >> thank you, madame chair and i want to first of all will come the secretary. i was here for his remarks and i've known him for many years and we are lucky to have him come here is a great job. thank you for the good job your doing. i cheered the western hemisphere subcommittee and now one of the
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ranking member and one of the things that has been the irking me and i assure you and a lot of us is that a lot of the south american governments are recognizing palestine, and why is it especially irks me is the palestinians are refusing to sit down with the israelis and negotiate without all these ridiculous preconditions which actually shouldn't be preconditions' all. that's what you negotiate about, and i look at it as rewarding the palestinians for their intransigence and i think that is the wrong thing to do because it rather than tell them they should go to the negotiating table it sort of rewards them for not going to the negotiating table. now we have this resolution before the security council which condemns israel for the settlement and makes it seem that the settlements are the reason why there is no peace, which i think is a bunch of
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nonsense. i think that if the palestinians would negotiate with the israelis that the settlement issue and other issues would be taken care of. i would hope that if that happens that the administration will strongly enforce and veto such a resolution as we have in the past, and i believe the administration so far has not yet unequivocal the indicated that it would do so. so i would like to ask you is that a fact, and if it is, i would strongly urge the administration to veto this resolution of the security council if it comes up. >> thank you. first, by coming to the first point on the recognitions, we have made very clear to a lot of countries including in the region that you talked about that we now have had and continue to have responsibility for that we think this is counterproductive. i'm disappointed frankly that we haven't had more success, but it has been our engagement at the highest level with each of the government. i myself have had several of
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those conversations, so our position is well known on that. with respect to the security council, we have made very clear we do not think the security council was the right place to engage on these issues, and we have -- i've had some success at least for the moment and not having that are wise, but we will continue to employ the tools that we have to make sure that that continues to not happen, and we make it clear to the palestinians and to the key partners that there are other than used to discuss these issues, the most important which is the one that you identify, which is the only way to discredit is to engage between the parties and that is our clear and consistent position. >> thank you. yesterday i asked the two questions to the panelists and i want to ask you the same questions and see what your answer is what they said to me, and i know some of this has been discussed in the past hour or so but what are the differences that you see between 1979 iran
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revolution to 2011 egypt. what are some of the differences that make us hopeful that perhaps the results we saw in iran what did happen in egypt? and then i know that another quote i asked yesterday which i understand mr. ackerman touched upon is what do we do if lebanon rejects the special tribunal. the panelist yesterday from that question of mine is that he should be shunned that he shouldn't be invited to the united states, he should be told that this is unacceptable and we should shun him. i wrote the accountability act passed in 2004 and the chairman she and i were on a crusade for
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many years to do this and now syria is still doing the same kind of nasty things that have always been doing in the region. we now have an ambassador, but i don't see any positive things from their side, so i would like to comment on those if you could both complicated questions especially the first. i got my start in government working on the hostage crisis in 79, so i reflected a lot on that and i would simply say no to circumstances are, but also, our engagement in iran prior was different, and this was the revolution of iran was much more associated with our engagement with the prior year regime. here i think we are seen as a positive force on the egyptian side, so i think we can have a positive influence and i would be happy to go into detail with you in less than five seconds with respect to lebanon and as you say that we believe the continuation of the tribunal is essential and we made clear in the direct conversations through
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the embassy that is our expectation. again, i don't want to assume the worst and say the precise consequences of it not going forward but we have made clear that is what our expectation is of the international obligation of any government in lebanon to meet those obligations and we have made clear we expect him to do so as well. >> thank you. >> thank you mr. ingalls. i'm pleased to recognize the chairman of the subcommittee on asian and pacific for five minutes. >> thank you, madame chair. in the summer of 29, many of us in this country were very dismayed over the fact that when the demonstrations broke out in iran in the streets that on day one hour president said nothing at all day to our president said nothing. finally on that day three, he
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said something to the effect that we need a continued dialogue with the clerics. those extraordinarily disappointing. and then when the people started marching in egypt to take the president that long to underline president mubarak and say he's got to go, so i would like to know the basis of the present to the president and doing nothing in iran a year and a half ago. why didn't he do something? >> well, congressman, i understand a different view of what took place both in terms of the statements we made in support of the people in the streets in iran and the support we have continued to get for that as well as our continued focus on the problem of the prevention of human rights in elon including -- >> i'm talking about the response, not the focus. don't tell me the people on the streets were supported by the government. >> we made clear our strong support, at the same time --
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>> but you didn't. that's not correct. they were not supported to a >> i think we gave the support the president articulated and the secretary about the commitment to peacefully demonstrate, to assemble the need for the government to engage with them -- >> but nothing on the order there was given to the people in egypt specifically saying that mubarak has got to go. >> congressman, i also do not -- on that side we have not used that expression and -- >> wait a second, with a second. you're telling me that president obama has not said in one way or the other that mubarak must go; is that what you're telling this committee? >> with the president has said, with the secretary has said is that change has to come, a transition -- >> can you give me a yes or no to my question? >> we haven't used the expression that you've identified. >> you said it must go to action -- everybody in the world understands that president
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obama's position is to push mubarak out of office and i am astonished you think that is an amazing statement. .. >> we will do as we have done by demonstrations, whether they are in area or iran. >> see, that the problem. the answer that you are giving i
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know is well intended and obviously factual, but it leaked. and that's the message of weakness that gives enterprises to what the united states is doing. president obama and the secretary of state has been very clear about what's going on in egypt, granta demonstrations there lasted longer than in tehran. in either they said directly or inferentially that mubarak has to leave what is going on right now. he was so weak in iran. don't you think you think the president's statement will not toward public policy when people take to the streets such as they did in tehran? >> again, i think the president spoke clearly to this, but i also think there's other things, partially using tools you give us we've identified members of the iranian government. we've taken measures to appoint a special human rights to appoint a special human rights to appoint a special human
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rights to appoint a special human rights verizon himelfarb. >> nothing is working. are you going to change something in iran quake >> we have a very comprehensive strategy, which not only deals with human rights abuses, but also the premia nuclear program, which has led us to the leadership of the congress working together its best to impose the most comprehensive sanctions on iran if everything in pose and it led us to help mobilize the international community. i think the two have gone together because the fact of the democratic repression -- >> and the remaining time i want to achieve a high disappointment reworked the president and the weak response to people demonstrating for democracy in the streets of tehran back in the summer of 09. >> thank you among mr. manzullo. i very much agree with you. mr. murphy of connecticut is recognized for five minutes. >> thank you the momentum
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chaired an thank you mr. steinberg for sticking around with this. but we are jumping all over the map a bit, but i want to bring us back to the subject at hand today. we are obviously continuing to monitor the events as they play out today in egypt. but if we believe what is happening is happening today as you can type in your testimony, one of the stories of success will be a potentially very positive role that a secular independents and well-respected military has played in this ongoing transitional process in egypt. and i mention that it's a sick way to about lebanon. the laf is that a very different point in its developmental history. we still have members of the armed forces and indicating via cell phones with each other across the nation. and i want to ask you about how
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the united states continues to play a construct to grow and what is really the developmental stages of the laf in howling make sure that her distance the lebanese army continues in the tradition of achieving both articles and liberty military school going forward in that nation. >> i think you've identified an enormous and important issue because we have seen the possibility of the prospect of the development of a professional laf that is to opted to come additional democratic governments is critical to the success of lebanon in time with the challenge of hezbollah in their groups in society. we want to see professional civilian controlled military that can exert control over the country on the behalf of the democratic government and we have been encouraged by some of the progress the laf has made. so we would like to sustain with that in that we recognize the situation is fluid and lebanon
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family a very vigilant to the possibility that a change in the political circumstances might undermine that object to. so we focused on two things. one is a very vigorous commitment to make sure none of our assistance to the laf pose other than the laf itself in the record is strong in terms of the laf ability to monitor and implement that. and also as we see the political developments move forward, to make sure the dependence on the role of the laf is not compromised in any implication that make up for system. we hope we would see a continuation of strong support for the laf. it's a critical component of the sovereignty and integrity of the country as long as it businesses eat it with a democratic transparent open government that is not the product of outside interference. >> can you talk a little more about benchmarks and milestones? hideaway moving forward -- i understand that our military, there is obvious he can
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independently the political development in lebanon, but can you talk a little bit how we make sure the military and the laf targeting benchmarks and milestones that assure that we're making a wise investment. the mac well, we a very robust engagement with the leadership. it was two or three weeks ago that general mattis and centcom was meeting with the lebron needs leadership. the professional development that allows us to watch their progress to identify programs that continue to help develop their professionalization and clearly it is going to the political development because their ability to do this requires the strong support of the political institutions and allows them to not only develop their professional capabilities, but also to have a mandate to extend their authorities.
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>> just finally to the prime minister designate, you talk in your testimony making sure that he makes good on his pledge to build an inclusive government. how do we judge the inclusiveness? what do we look to as the keys to know whether we have an inclusive government that can continue to be a recipient of u.s. economic and military aid? >> i think the oath to the representative of the government to make sure no important constituent he and the lebanese society is cut out, obviously concerned with the evolution of populations are appropriately represented, but also to make sure across the political spec your comment that we have an inclusive government that includes the march 14 coalition and the voices that have been the progressive voices in lebanon in which i think it's something we support strongly. we believe the voices need to be included in any government going forward.
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>> thank you very much. i am pleased to yield five minutes were vice chair of the committee on middle east and south asia, mr. pence of indiana. he might thank you, madam chairman. i want to call you for this extraordinarily timely hearing. and i always want to make the point -- i want to think the secretary for his service to our country, for his distinguished career. it's not too heavy before the committee. this feels a little bit late déjà vu all over again. i'm sure it does to you, mr. secretary, with your long career and his matters. and frankly, with word of the potential but take place in the chipped before the turn of the clock today on that part of the world. this conversation is extremely
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important. i must say is the ranking member knows, as we partnered together in summer 2000 night to to offer a resolution that unanimously passed the senate. my first inclination is to stand with those who are clamoring for basic human rights for freedoms and i carry that i is into this conversation. i support those who continue to call for democratic reforms. i'm great of for the state department for the expressions of support for an orderly transition and the recognition of universal human rights. let me though, by way of raising an issue to you -- let me though express a word of caution. on the first things i learned this member of the committee, traveling and not part of the
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world was the enormous importance of the egyptians to the history of the region. not just at this time, but obviously to the millennium. and that the developments in egypt are an enormous consequence to u.s. strategic interests and most especially in the interest of what i like to refer to finally have their most cherished ally, israel. and so while i know the folks at the administration has partially been in your remarks up and on ensuring orderly transition, i am concerned about an orderly transition to a? or an orderly transition to? and specifically, i find my mind drifting back to history lessons of history. edmund burke, one of the strongest supporters of the revolution that took place in the colony here in the united states, but also one of the
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harshest critics of what happened in france. edmund burke warned that different from the american revolution, which was largely borne out of reach for democracy and a foundation of respect for the rule of law, the french revolution was the indifferent. in the war of nefarious actions that can of opportunity of his words not to become master of your assembly and master of the whole republic, close quote. and with the news the cia are in total moments ago told the house intelligence committee that he expects president hosni mubarak to step down this evening. i guess my question to you, mr. secretary, various and dearly is where is that he denies? who without big enough to? i know that the new vice president has expressed and
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demonstrated a willingness to engage in the muslim brotherhood and dialogue in organizations outlawed in egypt for decades. my first question is, do you expect president mubarak to step down. secondly, what is the effect of that? appears that leading us? and thirdly, can you speak to -- are we sending a message sufficiently to this transition authority, dominated at the military in egypt that we expect not only an orderly transition, but we expect order at the end of it. we expected we are are to continue at a minimum of a billion dollars a year and for any of goes to egypt, the military organization, that we expect there that a successor government to respect treaties and the alliance is and the
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allies in the interest of the united states if we are to continue to go forward with the foreign aid and with the nature of the alliance that we've had with the chip? so i guess i would love your response to whatever time the chairman would allow. >> seven seconds, plenty of time. >> guess is probably a good and fair. the last question the answer is yes. i think that is the way we've tried to engage throughout this process. set down a sort of principles that we expect the process to embody and the outcome to embody and that is what we are judged by. >> thank you so much, mr. pence. our colleague from american samoa. >> thank you, madam chair. i personally want to welcome you before the committee and i also want to express my deepest appreciation and service to give into our country may want to
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offer my personal welcome to one of our committee staffers who have just returned from his tour in the military. i wish i had the same reception when i came back from vietnam, madam chair. it was in my experience. for those of us with the unfortunate unfortunate experience of having served in the am. mr. secretary, i've often heard people say how important the golden rule is. the golden rule meaning that treacher fellowman as you would like to be treated. i've also heard another interpretation of the golden rule and that is he who has the gold makes the rule. and what i'm getting at, mr. secretary, for some 30 years now and it's been one way it keeping the peace, especially in what to place historically between israel and the chipped in the fact that through the 30 year period, we have given well over $65 billion in financial assistance to egypt and
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$36 billion of that went to egypt's military defense system. i am curious -- and i suspect that what my friend from indiana has just given his concerns and they share the same concern with mr. pence, but it seems that more and more that is coming out in the recurring crisis in egypt is that the military in the muslim brotherhood seems to be two main factions that are going to have a lot of influence and impact on the future of where egypt is going as far as the future is concerned. now, i've noticed that she's given in your statement as part of the administration policy, we want to keep the v. chip to determine their own future. but would it be safe -- would it be corrected me to say that in
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that mix, the military and the muslim brotherhood definitely are going to be very important fact there's in determining egypt's future? >> congressman, what i think is important is that the military played a role we expect the military to play a democratic society and respect the rights of the people. i think we have been encouraged over the past several weeks that the military has played a construct of role, but it's not for the military to make the government. absolute expect. we would suspect as we move forward at the military would be of service without. we obviously talked a lot today about the muslim brotherhood or i can only reiterate it is critical that we will look to a government is for and we will hold the set of principles and we will expect members of the government to uphold its principles and we will expect that they are responsive to what we believe is the yearning for the people on the street. and that is the way we will judge our relationship going
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forward. i think we are -- i don't think we want to be naïve, but we are hopeful that what we have seen is a strong sense that there is element of civil society of the people that congressman royce talk about that can form a strong, stable democratic government. >> i know my time is running. i just want to share another situation with my friend from new york, the fact that 350 million people in the area of community press on the fax that these two countries, saudi arabia and egypt -- if these countries falter, just as likely to be some serious problems coming out of this. i urge them to the fact that one of the main issues that always seems to come into the equation when we talk about the middle east is the will. my sense is that we've spent almost a trillion dollars to get
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rid of saddam hussein and expenditures and energy and resource lists. and yet when it came time to divvy up the portions, some 30 major oil companies that conducted between -- contracting extract it from iraq to my surprise, china was the winner of the bidding process. at correct me if i'm wrong on this, the fact that it was fired blood, our money, our resources and supposedly having some sense of benefit as well for our country. as it turned out, china was the beneficiary. am i correct on this? >> axon for sure and she'll probably. we work with them to encourage them to participate and work with the iraqi government to create conditions that would make us attractive. one of the problems and an
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ongoing problem with the iraqi government is to have an open this up to the kind the best i would like to see. it's a big priority engagement in the new government is for mayor. we'll push the debate because american firms have a lot to contribute to the economic and energy future of iraq. >> thank you so much. please go to mr. duncan is out carolina for five minutes. >> thank you, madam chairman. i hope i have more than the 30 seconds he gave it the day. thank you so much, mr. steinberg for being here. a lot of great questions have been asked today and you ought delved into a lot of the subjects that are concerning for me. i'm going to piggyback on the comments about energy independence. instability in the middle east, when i was a young boy, i remember the gas shortages. i remember the crisis that we had in iran. i remember countries around the world where you had
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revolutionary faction and you had groups that weren't from the u.s. step into the void. so it's very concerning to me and the folks that represent back in south carolina that we have stability in the middle east, we have a port in charleston that receives shipments that come through the suez and panama, so what is important for trade and economic prosperity in this country to stability in the suez region is maintained. stability and not only the north africa and middle east, but also east africa. there's a lot of different things that are concerning here. so he steps into the void in the process is interesting. and you stated the administration would adhere to consistent principles regardless of who was in power. and the question i have for you
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and taken in the light of stability and taken in the light of what our energy independent means -- a limited set way to that for just a second because dementia and other sources. i think it's imperative that the united states and the administrations policies that could american energy independence and using american resources that. to lessen our dependence on foreign sources because we are seen rising gas prices which effects and cut and commodity prices. so it is a huge trickle down effect. let me segue over to is the administration working to prevent the muslim brotherhood from being involved in this process? of new governments in egypt? >> i tell you that we are actively working to make sure the government is inclusive to protect the rights of women, minority, religious minorities and the like. it's not on one particular
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group. some of groups. we want any future government to sustain values. anybody on the group that isn't consistently would not support being part of the government. >> salado science, what specific steps of the state department of this administration taken along those lines? >> that's precisely why we've been so active in the government to engage in a prompt, orderly transition because we believe the best chance of getting that outcome we want with the kinds of evil that congressman royce and others talk about is to move forward in the process and engage with the forces because those are the forces that can come together and create both democracy and stability. >> has the administration and your clear and consistent principles, stated to egypt that she would not support the muslim brotherhood in any fashion? >> we say what we would support and we would not support those
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who are not consistent with those principles. >> out of the state department would be to a squirt factions that are friendly to the united state economic interest and friendly to the united states as far as national security interests. >> i think we feel comfortable if you look at history that democratic governments come when people really have a voice and are not intimidated and there is diversity are friendly. if you look at democracies around the world, those are our friends. i think that is why we are so committed to moving forward with this process because we do think it's exactly which you've identified. >> thank you so much. and to round out the question and answer. , so pleased to yield as our last interviewer, mr. griffin for the sub committee on europe and eurasia, but they share of the subcommittee. thank you, mr. griffin.
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>> thank you, madam chair. we had some testimony yesterday regarding the potential for al qaeda to exploit some of the instability in northern africa, particularly in egypt. i just want to get your comments i'm not. there is a "wall street journal" op-ed that cannot pollack on this yesterday and understanding this may be down the road a bit, the intermediate term and not immediate and also understanding that egypt has a history of do a pretty good job with keeping some of the more extreme elements under control if you will. could you comment on that, whether al qaeda is looking to recruit or take advantage of the power vacuum in the region? and without making a specific reference, i don't know specifically that they are, but
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i think we have to be alert to the possibility that they were. i think we know they are looking for any opportunity to advance their agenda in any place they could find it in search of the places are real dangerous places, which is precisely why we to believe it is so important to have this orderly system process because we think it's the best anecdotes about giving extremists and terrorist groups the opportunity. >> well, the article that i was looking at yesterday tends to say that this may not be the most likely course, particularly in the short term. but as we know, al qaeda has root at the highest echelons in egypt. so you don't know what any specific, identifiable antidote for information you can share with regard to al qaeda in that region? you just identified as the
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possibility. >> it is something we have to be alert to. obviously to get into more detail to have to get in close action, but i would say the most important is to be vigilant and take the steps now to not what the circumstances arise. because i feel confident the voices in the street interrater square are not voices that are looking to al qaeda as their salvation. we need to make sure they are the ones that prevail in the. >> thank you so much for your excellent testimony. we look forward to getting some of those questions in writing from you. and i would especially appreciate your responses and the department of state's responses to my u.n. overpayment issue and the refund. thank you so much. and this committee is now adjourned. thank you, sir.
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>> i think that's not a late one of the major challenges facing wired country, but facing our country and that is how we maintain a healthy lifestyle and get kids to have the strength in the judgment to say no.
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>> out of the transportation security administration testified on capitol hill on the new full body screen machines at airport in the administration's decision to allow them in a collective bargaining for its transportation security officers. this is a little more than an hour and a half. >> this meeting of the homeland security transportation subcommittee security will come to order. the subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony from it in a straighter transportation security administration, mr. john pistole on his agency staffers to stop terrorists from
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carrying out threats on transportation. as i took a macro into the first subcommittee meeting, the 112th congress they want to thank mr. pistole for joining us. i know it will be informative after. please be joined in the subcommittee by ranking member sheila jackson lee. the ranking member and i have a strong relationship that look forward to continuing in this congress to make tsa more effective in concert with harry. the topic of this eeriness terrorism and transportation security. i would like to welcome our witnesses, tsa administrator john pistole and thank them for being here today. we look forward to your testimony and appreciate your time. let me first state -- first and foremost i tsa is a counterterrorism agency and it must maintain that mission as its primary focus. if there are programs or offices within the tsa that do not correctly support the primary mission or could operate more
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efficiently, the subcommittee will oppose it if you are taxpayer dollars could be better spent at tsa to achieve a greater level of security. it's also important to say that the outset that regardless of what other committees in the house may want you to believe, this subcommittee is the candidate with primary jurisdiction over all of tsa. in this road plan to exercise vigorous oversight of the agency and security of all transportation modes, including aviation, cargo, rail, mass transit, tracking a pipeline. were tsa is succeeding, we should applaud them. whether struggling to address vulnerabilities or to work with stakeholders, we should help them find new solutions. we can all agree that this safe and secure flow of passengers on commerce draw most of transportation is critical to our nation's economy. tsa is the federal parliament to ensure this happens within a framework and includes many stakeholders. in many ways post-9/11 security has been a security out of react
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to tactics by the tsa. existing practices with benefit from a proactive intelligence-based decision making process. >> mr. pistole commode discussed trenches in this area i look forward to strengthening these programs and tsa. also at times, tsa's efforts are counterproductive to industry or lack coordination with industry. other forward to examining ways to bring best practices of the industry and tsa together for better security and safer transit. i want to emphasize the subcommittee will examine how tsa is that tax dollars, suffice it to say is that a large government agency in paris waisted tsa peered over the last few months there've been a series of high-profile media stories on this issue. i have met with gao in the department of homeland security at a cheap to discuss acquisitions and spending practices and scheduled hearings on the issue in the near future. i believe we should not automatically separate national security from as close purity.
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i believe tsa and taxpayers could benefit from a procurement acquisition reform and i plan to pursue them. finally, it seems there is some at daily kos by the tsa isn't in the news making headlines. believe me in this business we are in, that can be both good and bad thing. just last friday was announced the tsa would allow employees to vote on collective bargaining framework that can lead to the unionization of employees. you and i spoke with on friday before the decision was made public and i continue to appreciate your willingness to get this important before we talk about the things the newspapers. with regard to collective bargaining rights were tsa employs a express concern before and will do so again today. because of the potential impact of the decision i'm going to allow a lot of extra time for you to fully explain your decision making on bargaining framework and for members to ask questions about it. in sum, we must be vigilant against terror is focused on attacking us in the taxing of
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our transportation systems. i met with administrator pistole on multiple occasions since becoming chair. i'm very pleased with the fact is significant one for semantic counterterrorism experience. i believe is the right person and look forward to it for them and transportation security. thank you for your service for nation and throughout your career in thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to be with us today. i now want to recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee come the lady from texas, ms. jackson lee for five minutes for an opening statement. >> good morning, mr. chairman. i grew if you want to thank administrator pistol for his young years of service. i'm delighted to be joined by the ranking member mr. thompson of mississippi and to acknowledge our new members, mr. davis of illinois, spears of california and mr. richman of louisiana. we are delighted to have the opportunity to serve the american people on this particularly important
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committee. mr. chairman, let me first congratulate you on your chairmanship of the transportation and security subcommittee and let me say that i look forward to working with u.s. we have done before during this congress and as we work together to ensure that the transportation security administration as the tools and resources it needs to secure all modes of transportation, including aviation, mass transit, passenger freight rail, hybrids and pipelines, but additionally make note of the fact that every american, mr. chairman, is used about a transportation that we have responsibility over at some point in their life. it is a large and looming challenge to ensure the transportation mode of this nation. in a thank you for the opportunity to work with you. let me also welcome as i indicated to get a new members on both sides of the aisle and i look forward to working with all of them. tsa's operability is broad in its challenge in securing
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transportation against terrorist attacks is critical to the nation's overall home at the purity of her. over the last four years during my chairmanship of the subcommittee, we evaluated cargo security and passenger planes, passenger and baggage screening technology and processes, security of foreign repair stations, general aviation security, registered traveler program and administration of tsa's program for service transportation security. might i add that we introduced along with chairman thompson a major purgation security initiative, h.r. 2200 of the last congress, focused on the growing professional development of our members said the tsa team in a number of other very important security reforms. i hope mr. chairman, will have an opportunity to look again and work together with you. mr. chairman, and from early discussions with you we share the same commitment to securing nations transportation systems
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to administrator pistol coming will commute into the sub committee and look forward to your testimony. since you were confirmed a month ago come you've been presented with the merida challenges from explosives shipped from yemen to enhance patdown screening that is giving. and through it all you show leadership and determination and trying to get it right in addressing thread eternal transportation. i specifically remember engaging with you during the transportation enhancement process during thanksgiving and christmas am actually going out my airport in spending three days during the thanksgiving holidays, watching professional tsa officers began their work under very difficult circumstances. we have commented on notice. we have commented on the sensitivity of our particular traveling public and i hope we can work through those issues. recently have made two critical decisions that must run before appeared for state grants for your decision not to ask and
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screen pressure programs for airports to opt-out of using tsa screeners in order to contract private screening firms. why should we go back? we went forward after 9/11. there is no reason seemingly to retrace the steps again, but we must also ensure that we grew up all of the procedures and processes of tsa. but for that to mitigate current and future threats at the aviation, as i said let us not forget the past. on the fateful day of september 11, 2001, for the passengers transited by the 19 hijackers were operated by three different security firms, contracted by air carriers at the three airports where the terrorists are parted. some of them, north liberty and washington dulles, citing various with this process, congress widely disguised and subsequently played a critical role as one of the most important security players for securing commercial aviation.
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but can this intelligent based administration of tsa screening programs, we have hardened aviation significantly against terrorist attack on the tsa manages a small group of ftp airportcome including san francisco and the district of our distinguished colleagues from california, we must be careful not to institute a system of hodgepodge screening companies working at different airport across the nation and i appreciate you looking at this carefully. i also commend your decision to accept bargaining rights to transportation security offices. just as with other security professional on customs and border protection in federal protective service, tso spotted the summer season performance appraisals. ranking member now work very hard on this issue. just like the two agencies another one for one-person agencies across the nation, collective bargaining will in no way negatively impact security, but will in fact improve morale
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and performance of hard-working tso's. the chairman i may disagree in some of these issues, but we do have agreed to in common. leonardi discussed the moscow airport and look forward to those hearings, particularly as we saw the last conference in the mumbai attacks. there is certainly a lot to do with. the chairman i've also discussed the importance of continuing oil left off in the last congress in securing mass transit and other service modes of transportation. again recent history and brescia from madrid in spain have shown that transportation is a terrorist target to many to be prepared. mr. chairman, you thank you again for your commitment to work with the side of the aisle so we can approach these issues in a company that manner. this is going to be a good year and i yield to. do not agree to generally be. we are going to have a great partnership. the chair recognizes the ranked member of the full committee, falcon full committee, gentleman from mississippi, mr. thompson
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for a statement. >> thank you, chairman rogers for holding this important hearing. i also graduate to your chairmanship of look forward to joining you and ranking member jackson lee and evaluating critical transportation security issues during the 112 congress. additionally, i would like to welcome mr. pistole to his first hearing in congress. we have taught them a number of occasions. i absolutely join my colleagues in thanking you for the outreach that you've done since you've been administrator and keeping us informed. please keep it up. also, let me say that your decision to grant collective bargaining rights to the transportation security offices at tsa is the right thing. as you know, i live with representative lori and ranking member jackson lee has been championing collective bargaining rights for tso's first several years.
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as proven by the performance of other federal security officers of the collective bargaining does not diminish our security. in fact, i have great neo-and continue to believe collective bargaining can improve workforce morale and productivity and thus will positively impact tsa in fulfilling it mission to secure our transportation system. too often, we've been inundated with tso's concerning poor work place conditions, vague and inconsistent performance appraisal processes and in effect of training programs and practices. further, a top concern continues to be affording tso's the same benefit and personal standards as other employees in the federal pace is done. i look forward to continuing to work with you to implement this
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new collect to bargaining framework so that all the key issues are addressed. mr. chairman, last congress center oversight act duties of tsa's program, we held several hearings addressing critical transportation security issues. i have taken particular interest in the deployment of advanced imaging tech knowledge and machines in our nation's airport another urged tsa to implement privacy and efficiency safe hard to accompany the use of this type elegy. ..
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i look forward to learning more about the specific steps tsa has taken to focus resources to words surface and mass transportation modes of transportation in today's hearing. with that, mr. chairman, i yield back the balance of my time. >> thank you mr. thompson. other members of the committee or a device to their statements may be submitted for the record. we are pleased to have the distinguished guest with us today on this important topic. we will remind you mr. pistole your entire statement will be submitted for the record and you are now recognized for summarizing. >> thank you, chairman rogers and ranking member jackson lee and tom some good to see you and the new members of the subcommittee, welcome to the subcommittee. i'm pleased to be here today to discuss transportation security administration, our operations, our mission and the terrorism
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threat that our country faces and the men and women of tsa confront every day. tsa of course was created in november of 2001 with a compelling mandate to prevent terrorism attacks like 9/11 from happening again. the and so began the not yet ten year history of the organization of dedicated men and women and secretary napolitano and director leiter testified yesterday we face an enemy which constantly involves tactics and techniques and as we have seen the threat is real. tsa plays a critical role in protecting the nation's transportation network as part of the u.s. law enforcement and intelligence community counterterrorism efforts. it is our responsibility to stay ahead of the terrorist threat through risk-based intelligence driven security measures with our partners here and abroad utilizing the leader interconnected system that gives us the best opportunity of detecting and deterring threats as we follow the embargo plot pivots so to make the best tools
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we employee effort to combat terrorists are accurate, timely intelligence and partnerships. one of my first initiatives that tsa was to expand security clearance to a greater number of tsa employees in the field. this ensures our explosives experts are supervisory tso, transportation security officers and behavior officers have the information they need to better confront those who would do less harm. the other two are partnerships with other national security agencies and foreign counterparts, state and local law enforcement agencies and business community, especially airlines and air cargo carriers and of course, the american people. we've seen, going back to christmas day, 2009, and the air cargo what i mentioned, that concealment and design of explosives are being done in not only social norms that detection capabilities. we've expanded the use the trace detection and enhanced pat-down procedures and will continue to deploy the advanced imaging
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technology. we are always seeking the proper balance between security and privacy. in that regard i am pleased to report we have begun field testing of the automatic target recognition, atr for the machines being field tested in los vegas, atlanta and washington national airports. the software could eventually eliminate the need for tsa to review passenger images. instead, a generic icon with highlight areas required just on screening, thereby addressing the privacy issues that have been raised. it would be the best technology and engaged power force is vital, so last week i announced my decision our security officers and tsos would have the right to vote for or against union representation in a fair and transparent process consistent with the order. i also laid out specific terms for a limited, clearly defined framework consistent with tsa's security mission should tsos it be like a union. this framework, which is unique
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in the u.s. government, reserves tsa's capability and flexibility to respond to the evolving threats. let me state clearly, tsa's priority is the safety and security of the travelling public. all 628 million of them in a 2009 and again in 2010. as administrator, i'm committed to the vaulting tsa into a more agile, high-performance organization that can meet the security threats of today and the future. as i mentioned earlier, tsa ability to push of intelligence information to our front line workforce and quickly change procedures based on threat and intelligence is paramount to effective security. all factors along with cost in my decision to not expand the privatized screening program, beyond the 16 current airports as a clear and compelling reason. going forward, i believe that we had tsa must use more of them risk-based approach to the checkpoint of the future, using common sense informed by intelligence, rather than a
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one-size-fits-all approach for the passenger screening. with that, i look forward to working with this subcommittee as we develop and implement the security solutions to help mitigate a dynamic and changing ferc landscape. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, mr. pistole. we know you're very busy and we very much appreciate you making yourself available today. to work with us on this topic. i'd like to recognize myself now for five minutes for questions. recently i had a meeting with the railroad industry and that he expressed a couple of concerns that they would like help with. one is they would like more specific information, more concrete and specific information on the current threat that tsa is aware of and to work with them to deal with those threats. the other is they would like to have a more mcwhorter mutual
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relationship to establish goals that both you and the industry feel like what most effectively deal with the threat. so could you tell me what, if anything, you've been working on to address those two areas? the communication threat information as well as setting the goals with the rail industry. >> yes, mr. chairman. since i started last july, i've been looking at not only pushing the intelligence out to the tsa work force, but those partners who in industry are ultimately responsible for implementing the safeguards that need to be in effect. i've met with both executives and security officers from the st. rail and passenger rail areas, and there are several developments. i am clearly committed to working in a partnership to provide the related intelligence. of course it is usually strategic intelligence. there may be a threat, for example, amtrak and the northeast corridor, or there may be something about a terrorist such as in madrid or london or
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moscow or mumbai who attacked rail with out any tactical actual intelligence. but we are to pushing of intelligence in a classified setting and unclassified as appropriate on both strategic and tactical. one very positive demint on the second point about working towards mutual goals is in the ring of the toxic immolation hazards carried on the freight rail to the downtown metropolitan areas including washington, d.c.. really because of the partnership and the initiative of the free to industry having these toxic inhalation hazards there has been a 90% reduction over the last two years in the threat to some of these urban areas. that was done based on the initiative of the industry with assistance from austin to do grants and things like that, so it is a partnership and that is why i am committed to do it. -- there's not limit on your ability to communicate the
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threat? >> no, it's just a question of obviously it comes from other agencies and u.s. intelligence community we get information from them and in the form of what is this a memorable and they want to protect mathis, so they may not say this is an intercept from this communication but we have intelligence command for a sample not related to treat or rail, but on december 23rd we've received credible intelligence that al qaeda and the arabian peninsula was considering using p.e.t., the same as christmas day bomber and against the saudi official and the cargo plot. the same explosive in thermoses. so they wrap the thermos around the line of the thermos sweep was that literally of the same day we receive it to the u.s. carriers, and so it's that type of intelligence we are always trying to produce, so the intelligence officers are doing
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enhanced screening of thermoses from that day and that continues to read >> tell me, shifting gears a little bit, sheila jackson lee a little earlier mentioned the airport, the private union contractors and how to had made the decision to seize that effort. tell me about your thought process of making that decision. >> so, conceptually i see that tsa should be a federal counterterrorism agency, and we are best able to train and deploy and execute on a mission as a federal work force. that being said, with the 16 privatized airports i'm always open to innovative ideas and opportunities where we can improve either in terms of our efficiencies and how we go about doing things for better security or from a business efficiency standpoint. and so some of the reporting was in a skilled programmers no longer open that's not true. but i do want to see clear and
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compelling information or evidence that would benefit -- there's got to be a reason for making the change, and if we went beyond the 16 in any large measure it would make it more challenging in terms of how we do the immediate flexibility and ability that i want in the federalized work force. >> why would inhibit that flexibility? >> so, for the example, the airports that were mentioned san francisco, kansas city, seven in montana and the key west and croswell and other places. i don't have the flexibility to move those individuals to another airport, because they are not employed by tsa, their private contracts. so if there is -- well, for example, the natural disaster katrina, i could not take those for the surge capacity to deal with that or if there's specific intelligence about a particular airport unlimited. i can't move those individuals. and if we have a change in how we go about our protocols, such as with the enhanced pat-down,
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it's just a more cumbersome process frankly. >> thank you. my time is up. the chair now recognizes the gentle lady from texas for five minutes of questions. >> thank you very much mr. chairman. i think i would agree with administrator pistole on the importance of the role of tso officers as part of our fighting terrorism team, and i and the more we can enhance the training skill is coming to be enormously helpful. the 1. i would make in your remarks, my comment on that one, terrorism doesn't make an appointment, and number two, we have seen the franchise of terrorism meaning single individuals can be actors that show up at airports anywhere around the world. but let me ask a question you might incorporate that because it has to do with the pat-down
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procedures and the ait machines and working with flight crew and pilots, and in fact section 1614 of the implementing recommendation 9/11 commission call for the expedition of flight crew and pilot for security at checkpoints. i think you know yourself it has been a point of contention. where are you in evaluating the process, and will the system include a volumetric component as was piloted by tsa, will you focus on the pilots and the crew including flight attendants as the legislation directed? no one mentioned the second of it is a trust a traveler program and many people are inquiring. this is a very full question. the other part of it is i think the chairman and i agree on notice and keeping the dialogue.

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