witnesses answered in the affirmative. thank you. please be seated. i will tell you that we preferred to have all they one main panel, but we have saved the best for last. since it is this committee's primary duty to work with watchdog groups and whistleblowers, you are among the most important people that have ever come before so we look forward to your testimony. mr. schatz, please try to stick to five minutes and we will have a lively round of questions afterwards.

the mayor of chicago. the candidates' debate. this evening's moderator, ron majors. good evening, and welcome to tonight's debate between the candidates for mayor of chicago. tonight's event is being hosted at broadway in chicago's beautiful oriental theater. the candidates will debate the issues so that you will be better informed when you go to the polls and vote on february 22nd. tonight's debate is produced in cooperation with the league of women voters, chicago loop

alliance, the league of chicago theatres, the metropolitan planning council, the chicago foundation for women, the chicago urban league, the national conference of larsa, and univision. the candidates for mayor of chicago are carol mosley brown. miguel dell via, rahm emanuel, and gary chico. joining me in questioning are abc 7 political reporter charles thomas, and from univision anchor and reporter paula gomez. determined by a drawing, each candidate will have a statement of one minute, and we begin that with mr. del via. >> we have an election february 22nd, just a few days away. and this election should be in the hands of the voters in the neighborhoods of the city of chicago. you can help chart a different course for the city of chicago. a course that ensures that we

continue to see progress downtown, development around the downtown area, but also a course that ensures that neighborhoods that have been waiting for a long time for attention receive that attention that they need. and that neighborhoods that need to remain stable, with a stable middle class, get that assistance that they need to ensure that stability. we will be electing a mayor that will chart that course. please, cast an informed vote. we need to ignite democracy in the city of chicago in order to ensure that that course is a course that will benefit all. >> mr. chico. >> thank you. and i appreciate univision and abc hosting this debate. i have worked hard for everything i have ever earned. i worked in my father's gas station and worked my way up to chief of staff for the city. i went to night school and

became the chairman of our school board, where i was able to lead a nationally recognized reform effort that benefited our children. i've delivered each and every time i've opinion asked to serve. i produced 16 balanced budgets with surpluses in each. it's time for city hall to live within its means. our city is at a turning point, and i want to take our city in a new direction. that's why i'm running for mayor. and i very much look forward to discussing this and other issues that are critical to the city and our future. >> tonight, the city of chicago, we face common challenges. from the safety of our streets to the strength of our schools, to the stability of our economy. and the question is whether we will face those common challenges with common purpose. in a sense of bringing together the city. and that starts by being honest and leveling with people about the challenges that we face and the decisions we have to make. and we need a mayor who is strong enough, determined, with

a vision and a resilience to see that future and seize that future for this city. so that we can grow as one city, every neighborhood, but also downtown economically, where you can raise a family, start a business, and make sure that the city, as we face these challenges, comes through this period stronger for all its residents and every neighborhood. and that's the challenge for the next mayor, but for all of us as part of this city. we are a great city with a great future. the decisions we make in the coming days will determine whether chicago stays on the course and continue to be the great city it is. >> thank you. ms. braun? >> i want to thank channel 7 and the league of women voters for hosting this candidates' forum. i am a woman voter who also knows what it means to be a woman in leadership. born and raised in chicago, i care deeply about the future of all of the children of this city. i'm a candidate for mayor because i bring experience, gained from elected leadership in local, state and national government, as well as experiences on the international

level and as an entrepreneur. i'm uniquely qualified to be mayor at this time in our history, having overcome challenges by making them into opportunities. i bring the leadership capacity to make our city reflect the resourcefulness, productivity and straight forward determination of its people. our city works very well for some. and not at all for others. there are villages of homeless people under the bridges at sawyer and belmont in subzero weather. and yet our downtown is one of the most beautiful in the world. our city's financial deficit is a reflection of its leadership deficit. i have a vision of a great city that includes all and excludes none. a city that respects every person. and i look forward to working with you to get to that point. thank you. >> thank you. first question tonight comes from charles thomas, and charles, it is directed to mr. chico. >> all of you, during this campaign, have is expressed great optimism about the future of our city. and expect a return eventually to economic prosperity, perhaps,

during the next four years. but all of you have also agreed that chicago government must reinvent how it collects and spends our tax money. mr. chico, when prosperity returns, why should the sellers of retail items be the only ones required to charge the sales tax? and why shouldn't those who sell services, including dog groomers, barbers, mechanics and others, add a sales tax? don't they also take advantage of doing business in the city of chicago? >> the issue before us is not whether or not one is right or wrong. it's how to make it work. and the problem that you have right now is mr. emanual has proposed the largest expansion of the sales tax on services that has ever been put to our city. the problem is this. we don't get any answers about what it would apply to. if you're going to take $45 million out of the budget, tell

us how you're going to replace it. you're not going to do it with jet travel and with luxury services that are in his -- in his limited proposal. the problem is this. cranes, chicago sun times and chicago tribune all say it doesn't add up. so the problem is, it's a phony claim to say that somebody is going to get $200 savings when it never adds up. you would have to make $600,000 a year to get $200 in savings. nobody is going to be eligible for that in the city. so it doesn't hold water. it's a very difficult thing to do. and you can't do it on the back of an envelope, as was done here. >> mr. emmanuel? >> first of all, i've proposed three separate tax cuts. one on the employee head tax, that is a disincentive for hiring people. second, a change in the natural gas tax. as you know, people's energy suggested a rate hike. and it would save middle class families on their energy bill. and third, i've also talked about a sales tax reduction of 20%.

i think a single mother buying school applies for her children should not be bearing the full burden of that tax when drivers of corporate jets, limos $85 facials for dogs, grooming, should not be paying that tax, while a single mother trying to get school supplies for her child is being burdened. chicago residents are being nickeled and diamond on taxes. we have the highest tax rate in the country. it is time to lower it so we are economically competitive, so the retail merchants in one form or another have endorsed this proposal, including gary at one time in a public debate. >> can we respond? >> ms. braun? >> you know, i served -- i am the candidate in this race who said no new taxes. the working people in the city have been taxed enough. i'm not saying that out of the blue. i am a former member of the united states senate finance committee. i have served also -- i ran the budgets of an embassy, i've run

the budgets of the recorded deeds office, so i'm familiar with these taxation issues, and i believe the way we get this budget under balance is that we reform city government, we make it accountable, and then we grow our economy here in chicago. we create jobs, and when we create those jobs, it will grow our revenue base, and that will let us fund essential services in the city without putting a greater tax burden, even a tax swap, on the people of chicago. >> mr. delville. >> we have an antiquated tax structure. and now is not the time to be talking about raising sales taxes. and with all of the confusion that's been created around this proposal, it clearly indicates that we need to do a thorough analysis of this. if rahm goes to the general assembly with a proposal to raise the sales tax, they're going to turn it down. they just increased the income tax. and so it really is ludicrous at this point to even be talking

about changing the sales tax when it's not going to go anywhere. what we should be talking about is how do we protect those businesses that are struggling out there in the neighborhoods that have seen a huge increase in the property taxes and about to close their businesses, because of that. those are the types of things we should be talking about. >> can we stay on this issue? >> one second. we do have a follow-up opportunity. charles can come back. you'll all get another 45 seconds here. charles? >> well, mr. chico, i mean, you've called mr. emmanuel a pathological evader of the truth. >> right. >> is his response to this issue part of that? >> absolutely. i mean, tell us right now what's going to be taxed. i agree with miguel dell ville, this is absolutely the wrong time to be talking about this. i have a daughter who is a single mom. and i have a 2-year-old grabbed son. she's not going to benefit from this tax. she doesn't make $600,000. it's not possible. secondly, the taxpayers in this city and in this state already

have too many bricks on their back. they cannot afford this. one thing is for sure. you make -- i'll tell you one thing, when you go into the barber shop, when you go into the dry cleaner and call the plummer and that new 9% is here, you're going to feel that pinch, trust me. working families around this city are going to feel that pinch. >> mr. emmanuel? >> there are three separate tax cuts i proposed, one, employee head tax, disincentive to hiring people. the second is a change in the natural gas tax. and that would also save hundreds of dollars for middle class families, especially now that people are talking about raising the rates. third is a 20% reduction in the sales tax. because single parents, working middle class parents, have a tax code, and they are bearing the burden. chicago has the highest sales tax in the country. it is time to give working families a cut, which means if you take a corporate jet, you'll start to pay your share. you hire a limo, you'll pay your

share. you want to join salts saddle and cycle club, you pay your share. and we give two tax cuts, one on the energy bill, one on the sales tax. and that is essential to do, given what just happened in the general assembly that, the middle class families have a tax cut, which they need desperately, and we can also balance the budget by changing the reforms you originally talked about, charles. and that makes chicago a place where businesses want to invet vest and create the jobs here. >> did you thank you. mr. del ville. >> we have an antiquated system. the amount that mr. rahm is talking about is a minuscule system. the question is, why are we only proposing this at this time? because it sounds good. we're going to lower your taxes, we're going from 1.25% to 1%. and most of the families aren't going to see the difference. and so why don't we talk about the property taxes that are choking families and businesses in the city of chicago? that is the issue that we should

be debating during this campaign. and that's why this campaign has to go beyond february 22nd and to april 5th so we can have more time to dissect this proposal and educate the voters, so that they understand that it means absolutely nothing to them. and it avoids dealing with the tough issues, which is what's happening to our families out in the neighborhoods that are being nickeled and diamond to death. >> thank you. ms. braun? >> i just think this is such a tricky proposal, because what it does is lowers the tax a little bit, and then expands it a lot. and frankly, i don't think anybody has really crunched the numbers to see exactly what the tax burden will be, and where it will fall. again, we don't need to talk about new taxes. what we need to talk about is going to springfield, and getting our portion of the distributive share in that last income tax they passed, getting that money back for the city of chicago. it was promised to us, we were supposed to have it, it was eliminated when they passed the bill. so let's get what's owed us, let's move in that direction to bring more revenue in, instead of talking of new ways to put

more taxes on the voters and the citizens of the city of chicago. >> thank you. paula gomez, your first question is directed to mr. emmanuel. >> when taxes were going to go to public education, chicago public schools currently have one of the shortest school days in the nation. by the time a high school student graduates, they will have received approximately three years less instructional time compared to students in other major cities. and as you well know, the current graduation rate is only 56%. but the question is, what specifically will you do to improve public education in chicago, and make it available to all students and not just the lucky ones who get into a magnet, gifted or charter school. >> there's two parts to that question. first, if a kid in chicago goes from kindergarten all the way to high school and their cousin is in houston, kindergarten, to high school, the cousin in houston spends four more years in a classroom than the cousin in chicago. a full high school education. i will seek and go to

springfield to raise the minimum both the length of the year and the length of the day, because our kids are being cheated, and they can't compete in the global economy if they get less offen an education. second, invest in making sure we have a performance contract for each school so we can measure the progress of the principal. third, invest in teacher academies, so we have the largest teacher population with a master's degree in education of any school system in the country. and fourth, make sure that parents are involved in their kids' education. because walking through that front door to the house is the most important door where a child learns education. and teachers are going to need the partnership of the parents involved in a child's education. >> thank you. ms. braun? >> the first thing is that we need to have an educate tore in charge of the chicago public schools. instead of trying all these different experiments by people who look at our students as so many widgets on a spreadsheet, we need to start off with an educator, helping to collaborate around the changes we should make. there are a host of programs that are still being dealt with

in the chicago public school system that long ago outlived their usefulness, and that frankly just complicate a system that is already too complicated. i think we need to simplify the system, work with the teachers around what they want to see in the classroom, give them a voice, give the principals a voice, let the principals do what they need to do. and lengthening the school day might well be a proposal. but let's look at things like class size, let's look at things like providing environments suitable for learning. let's look at things like making sure our children aren't fed garbage at lunch time and get better food and better nutrition from the schools. there are a host of things we need to do. >> thank you. >> class size and length of the school day is just one of them. >> mr. del ville? >> well, we have helped develop magnet schools, charter schools, selective enrollment schools, and those are great. but it's time to focus on the neighborhood schools and the way you lengthen the school days in neighborhood schools is by establishing community learning centers that will engage the

entire family in learning activities from 2:00 in the afternoon until 8:00 in the evening. and on saturdays where parents can take ged classes, esl classes, the children can be involved in enrichment classes. its the way i saw last night in talking to a parent who told me, they're looking for a place where they can send their child to get additional support and involvement in an enrichment program, and they can't find one in the neighborhood. in every underperforming neighborhoodel school. >> thank you. mr. chico? >> i've been privileged to serve as president of the chicagoel school board in the mid '90s through the early 2000s. and at that time it was the worst system. and i was pleased president clinton held us up as a model for reform two short years later. how did we do that? we lengthened the school day by two hours a day, and had the nation's largest summer school program. the reason those are both important is because the more time we spend teaching, the more

time our children spend learning. and when we do that, we will begin to eat into the dropout problem, because we will be more effective, the children, the students will have more positive reinforcement and see that it's in their best interest to go to school, pay attention, and succeed. i think these are the most critical elements that we can effect, and i've proposed those both in my education reform plan. >> thank you. paula, you have a follow-up question. >> we can go in the same order. which will be your top two priorities when negotiating the new teacher plan of 2012? >> first will be the length of the day and the year. because we are literally cheating our kids. you cannot ask them to learn and compete when we have one of the shortest years and shortest days of any major city in the country. and second is raising the quality of the teachers in the classroom. which is why i want to double the size of the teaching academies here in the city of chicago. we have a model program that people come and actually study. seven schools.

i started the first high school teaching academy in my old congressional district. i want to take that to 15, so we have the equivalent of two high schools and six elementary schools of teachers graduating with a master's degree in education. and those teachers move on to the neighborhood schools. and we improve them, school by school. that to me is the priority, doubling the size of the teaching academies and making sure the length of the school year matches the requirements of a 21st century economy, so all kids in every part of the city can compete and win in the future. >> ms. braun. >> i think the first thing we need to look at is engaging the teachers and the principals in working toward reform of the system. frankly, since some of the changes that happened under mr. chico's leadership, our system has moved more in the direction of private advertised education, and less in the direction of the public schools and public education in the neighborhoods that we need to see. and i believe that teachers want very much to be a part of that. nobody goes into teaching to make a fortune. they go into it, because they care with children.

and so i want to engage the teachers in seeing to it that we provide environments for the school, in terms of their contract specifically, i would like to work with them on resolving issues having to do with assignments and eligibility for the academies and eligibility for working in the neighborhood schools. if you have a good teacher who is right now in one of the academy or has been spun off into one of these selective enrollment schools, those teachers ought to be encouraged, i think. >> thank you. >> to come back. >> thank you. mr. del ville. >> i want to establish a good working relationship with teachers. they have been criticized, they have been blamed for everything that's wrong, with public education, not just in chicago, but throughout the state, and throughout the country. teachers have received criticism. i think teachers want a strong evaluation system in place that ensures that they get the kind of feedback that will help them

grow and develop on the jobs. you know, you really learn about teaching when you get into that classroom. the colleges of education don't prepare you for that first day when you go in that classroom. and so we need a strong evaluation system, and teachers more than anyone else want to weed out incompetent teachers. because they're the ones who have to deal with the students who then come to them after being in it a classroom where the teacher didn't do their job. so i will work closely with the chicago teachers' union, and i will also challenge them and work with them to take on the underperforming schools that need to be turned around as quickly as possible. thank you. >> and i think that partnership can be put together with the mayor in a board of education, working with teachers throughout the entire city of chicago. >> thank you. >> in a way that's constructive. >> thank you. mr. chico. >> my mother-in-law, my wife, my son and my daughter are teachers. i internalize how important this is to our society. it's not just rhetoric for me.

i was the lead negotiator with the chicago teachers' union twice back in 1995 and four years later where i led successfully two contract negotiations for the longest school contracts that we have had, probably yet to date in the chicago public schools. and they were effective. that stability gave us six years of test score i am professorments. we need to do that again. i would have as my number one item longer school kay, longer school year. i'll work that out with the teachers, and they will be compensated for the time. we're not just going to say come work for nothing. and then secondly, we will arrive at a meaning -- together, a meaningful performance evaluation system. so that we can truly monitor the performance of our teachers, compensate accordingly, and make sure that we absolutely have the best teachers in our classroom for our children. i think that's an incredibly important set of goals. >> thank you. the next question goes to ms. braun. let me combine a couple things here, because i think they may

be relatively simple answers for you. the head tax. we have had some brief discussion of the head tax. you in favor or not, and why? and the residency requirement for city workers. are you in favor or not, and why? head tax, residency. ms. braun. >> okay. in that order, the head tax. no, of course, i'm not in favor of it. and frankly, fewer employers -- it applies to fewer employers than is suggested in some of the plans that have been floated for raising our city taxes. the second thing, though, is very important. if we don't keep residency requirements, what we will have is an incentive for people who are paid out of the city revenue stream to leave the city so they're no longer contributing to it. the police and fire and teachers, residency requirements are very important to maintaining a stable revenue base for chicago when it no longer applies, we can begin to have to figure out how we're going to fill the revenue hole that creates. >> the head tax, to me, is a

nonissue. do you know that we collect more in red light tickets from residents in the city and people who visit the city than we do from employers who are paying the head tax? we collected last year $64 million for red light tickets, and we're talking about $20 million for the head tax. let's put this into perspective. the people who are really getting hit hard are the ones in the neighborhoods. and so let's not use this as an example of how we are discouraging employers from setting up shop. after all, when we talk about the head tax, we're talking about the large employers. and they can certainly afford paying $20 million a year, given that they're making huge profits in the city of chicago. let's start protecting the residents who have to pay those red light tickets. >> mr. chico. [ applause ] please -- i will again caution the audience, no applause, no reaction of any kind. please. thank you. mr. chico. >> i think the head tax is a

horrible signal to business that we will tax you for bringing jobs to our city. that's why i've called for its entire elimination in one year. the only candidate to do so. i'm the only candidate that has already taken the dollar off the head tax back in 1993. it went from 5 to 4. i think it should be eliminated, eliminated quickly, because it's a horrible signal to people who would like to bring paychecks to our residents. as far as residency goes, i think rahm and i share an opinion on this. i think i said i would merely put it on the table, take a look at it, but i have reservations about it. there is a lot of cons to this. but many groups sent us questionnaires and asked us to talk about it. i said i would merely talk about it. >> mr. emmanuel. >> i was the first to call for eliminating the head tax, because it is a disincentive for creating jobs here. when i visited the ford plant on the south side, the number one reason they stated they're not

getting possibly a third shift was because the head tax made them uncompetitive to other ford plants. and we can afford to eliminate a $20 million because -- of revenue source, because it cost us more in lost revenue from employers. second on residency. as i said before, i understand from the police and firefighters and the teachers, it's an important issue. but those folks are more than just police and firefighters. they're the anchor in our neighborhood, they are the little league coaches, they are the people that volunteer at their churches and before we give up those anchors in our community, and i appreciate the other side's recognition of the importance from their side, but they play an important function in our city, not just in the police station, not just in the fire engine, but also what they do for the communities and neighborhoods and also for the little volunteers that they do as little league coaches, hockey coaches and in their churches. >> thank you very much. for a follow-up, let's move to another neighborhood issue. citywide issue. given recent court rulings, is there anything anyone can do about guns in chicago, ms.

braun? >> oh, i think so. in the first place, if we start -- if we focus in on not trying to shut down people who collect, who hunt, who want to have guns for their own safety, which is what this -- focusing on in the decision, if we focus in on shutting down the illegal gun sales, as well as tracking the theft of guns from some of our transit facilities here in chicago, a lot of the guns are stolen from the trains, they're stolen out of the airport. we need to make sure that we have real prosecution of gun use, of gun crimes, and of the gun thefts. i come out of a law enforcement background, and it's the illegal guns that are the biggest problem in the city of chicago. not homeowners trying to protect their homes or hunters or collectors. so i think going after legal guns would be the way to go, and that's not happening right now. >> thank you. mr. del ville? >> i think date is going to come in the makeup of the supreme

court, we'll end up with some common sense gun laws in this country. because certainly, we have to continue to advocate to ensure that our police officers, by the way, we want living in our neighborhoods, not in the suburbs, should be protected from the flow of guns in our streets. and our residents need to be protected. and so we must do everything possible to limit the flow of weapons, firearms, in our streets in the city of chicago, including adopting local ordinances that are able to withstand supreme court testing. >> thank you, mr. chico. >> along this campaign trail, a met a woman who lost her 13-year-old son anthony to gang fire. he was killed. there's no doubt about it, there is an imperative here to try to limit the proliferation of guns in our city. right after the mcdonald case was decided, the one you referred to, ron, the city of chicago produced another ordinance, which, again, attempts to limit the amount of handguns that a person can own in our city, and put some other restrictions on it.

no sooner was the ink dry on that order that it was promptly attacked in federal court. i as mayor will continue to do everything in our power to limit the amount of guns in our city. >> mr. emmanuel. >> as a point person for president clinton, i helped pass the brady bill, and the assault weapon ban in this country. and i introduced as a member of congress the juvenile brady bill extending the brady law to juveniles, violent criminals. second, i and my 50 site visit visited roseland, a memorial to juveniles and young kids who have been killed by gun violence. 126 names yet to be put on plaques. i believe that the u.s. attorney should back up the state's attorney here and help us prosecute these gun crimes. i'm not waiting for springfield or washington to pass new laws. let's prosecute the laws we have on the books today so any gun crimes we can stop and put those individuals behind bars. >> thank you. charles, your question goes to

mr. del ville. >> i would like each of you, of course, to answer the question, but beginning with you, mr. del valle, i want you to use your 60 seconds to name and describe three people that you, if elected mayor, will include in what might be called your kitchen cabinet. these are people who are not necessarily working in your administration, but from whom you would expect to take advice and counsel. >> well, i am not going to name my cabinet here. >> not your cabinet. people that you depend on. >> but i will turn to people out in the neighborhoods in the communities. we need folks who are common folk, who are in the neighborhoods, who are business leaders, small business owners -- >> can you name some? >> specific leaders, individuals who can come and partake in the decisions that get made. for too long in the city of chicago, the mayor has been surrounded by a very small, close-knit circle, and that's

why gentlemen like gary chicko got appointed to everything, because the circle is so small. and so we need to widen that and we need to widen that with individuals who come from different walks of life who can advise the mayor on a lot of different issues. >> thank you very much. we do need to move on. i'm going to caution the audience for the last time, there will be no more reactions or we'll empty the room and finish this without you. thank you very much. mr. chico. >> three people had come to mind that i think would be celebrity advisers. one, paul valas, one of the better minds i've seen on municipalel pal finance. bee herbert martin, a dear friend of mine during the course of the campaign. a minister on the south side. because there is a role for the faith community to play in making sure that our city sees things through a different lens. and then another person who i have become very close to is luis gutierrez. he is path-breaking, and i think having these kinds of points of

view in a kitchen cabinet would enable me to make the best policy possible. >> mr. emmanuel. >> well, it depends, truly, on the subject. on education, i would look to somebody like mike holedike. in the area of education, we worked together in creating the chicago teaching academy. as it relates to building, i think our communities from the ground up, dr. brasher, taking over the church on the south side. as it relates to i think our arts and culture, which i think are very important to our sense of our city, dave mu seeno over in the museum, head of planning. so it depends on the topic. there will be a number of individuals whom i call, and that's limited. there's a great series of a number of people organizing and sponsoring the debate today. who are involved in our foundations and our think tanks, and academia, who i would want to get involved in their area of specialty. so depending on the issue, charles, i would actually pick people on their areas of

specialty, and bring them in, both as outside advisers, and willingly, i think other people should now see city government as a chance to join and do public service. i'm going to call people from private sector and the academia to participate by joining city government and opening it up. >> thank you. >> as miguel said, to others. >> ms. braun? >> you know, i'm kind of torn and i started to write a list here, and i had too many names and so i started striking people's names out. it's not working. the point that miguel made is a very good one. you can't just answer this in terms of three people, because the media is going to run and say, oh, what are you going to do? and it's supposed to signal something, and it really doesn't. but i will give it a shot anyway. i rely on my family. my family for advice. my sister is a states attorney, my brother is a chicago plam. i rely on close personal friends, like rene ferguson, who has joined our campaign as a press spokesman, because that was my price when she agreed -- when i agreed to run for this

office. john rogers is a friend from corporate sector who i rely on who has been very helpful. i could go on. and i would go on, but i'm sure now -- >> we're out of time. >> they're all mad at me. >> charles, you have a follow-up question. >> interesting that none of you mention mentioned richard m. daly, but i'll go on. i would like to ask mr. emmanuel something. could you tell us the kinds of things that you did between the time you left the clinton administration until you ran for congress to make what some say $18 million? what were you doing for people to make that kind of money? >> sure. i worked in the private sector. and i worked in investment banking. on a transaction. here creating exelon and keeping the corporate headquarters here. in a period of time in which many corporate headquarters were leaving the city, i worked on a

major transaction that kept a corporate headquarters here. with thousands of jobs attached to it. in addition to that, a company that pays many of the taxes that helps us fund the things that we build here. and i worked on other transactions, as well. i did that. i also served, charles, as vice chair of the chicago housing authority and helped on the plan for transformation. and i also taught at northwestern, a class on the press and the presidency. so i worked in the private sector, continue to do stuff in academia and also gave my time for the city in the -- as a vice chair of the chicago housing authority. >> any of you have a reaction to that? mr. chico? >> i do. i think you did some other things too, ron. i think you served -- i think you served on the board of freddie mac, i would like to talk about that, if it i could. because we have just a few days left in the campaign, and i have yet heard an answer about what happened during your time on the board of freddie mac with the accounting scandal that cost working men and women in this city, taxpayers, $585 million. you say that because you were a vice chair of the chicago

housing authority, and because you were not on the audit committee, that's your answer. but what happened there? what responsibility do you take for that accounting scandal that cost all of us as taxpayers so much money? >> mr. del valle? >> well, i'd like to say that both gary chico and rahm emanuel have done very well. they're both individuals that have reported millions of dollars in income. and i certainly don't begrudge that. but the fact of the matter is that they've been able to do that, because they have taken full advantage of their contacts in the federal government, or in city government. and so i think this city is ready for a leader that takes money out of politics. and that's why i advocate stopping pay to play in the city of chicago. once and for all. >> thank you. ms. braun? >> well, again, i think the issue here is whether or not they disclose conflicts, potential conflicts of interest, whether or not mr. emmanuel registered as a lobbyist to let

us know who he was representing and who he was calling, and relationship management. he's neither a cpa nor an mpa, nor a lawyer. and yet was able to go into a field that traditionally requires that set of credentials. so i think we need to know more, charles. but i also would ask the question, even about records in congress, mr. emmanuel voted against the congressional black caucus 128 times. who voted against issues having to do with poverty and sending water to drought-starved africa. voted to allow people to sell down meat from downed animals. those are the kinds of questions in terms of the record that i'd like to have asked tonight. >> thank you. paula, your question goes to mr. chico. >> 2013, the federal government wants to increase collaboration with local authorities to deport undocumented immigrants. what will be your stance as mayor of chicago? >> i wouldn't allow it. i was proud of my assistants in authoring the executive order, calling us a sanctuary city,

which means we will not allow our police officers, firefighters or city personnel to help enforce the immigration laws of this country. frankly, i think it's a red herring. i'll tell you why. we ought to, as a nation, once and for all, figure out federal immigration reform. it didn't happen on mr. emmanuel's watch as chief of staff. but i was so proud to see president obama during the state of the union just recently put it right back on the agenda, and i believe he will push, and we will get this done. and i will work side by side with congressman luis gutierrez to make that happen, because it's the right and moral thing to do in our country. >> mr. emanual -- [ applause ] >> please! mr. emmanuel. >> i'm the grandson of an immigrant who came from eastern europe here to chicago. the son of an immigrant who came in 1959. i worked tirelessly in congress, in making sure that we every year -- i co sponsored and voted for comprehensive reform. and also opposed republican efforts to politic size the issue. and my office worked many times,

there is not a week that goes by that somebody doesn't come up to me and thank me for helping them get naturalization and citizenship here in the country. third in the city. third, i would also keep our policy as a sanctuary city. and i've also introduced a chicago version of the dream act. so individuals here who came here with their parents have the opportunity to go to college, which is a dream of every immigrant parent when they come to america, is that their kids get a better future. that is a policy that we need, maintaining our sanctuary policy here as a city. i've done it both as a member of congress, but i also have made a proposal here on how to make chicago stand out and have a new policy that is consistent with our values, as it relates to education and the dream act. >> thank you. ms. braun? >> you know, sometimes you have to have a sense of unreality about this whole thing. you have been, mr. emmanuel, shown that you directly involved with killing the dream act when it came through. so to listen to you tonight is really kind of surprising. and, again, whether chicago

should continue to be a sanctuary city, we shouldn't allow families to get ripped apart because of the ill logic of our immigration system. among the things that are illogical is the federal government mandating activity by i.c.e. that they don't pay for. that comes out of the city. i think that we need to -- i still have floor privileges in the united states senate. i'm prepared to go back to washington, to press for a reform of the way that immigration laws are enforced, reform the way the state department treats people, because there's no reason why people are standing out in the rain, waiting for somebody to talk to them. we need to make certain that we press to make -- to press for fairness in the -- in the area of immigration. >> thank you. mr. del valle? >> this question wouldn't even be an issue tonight if we had had comprehensive immigration reform. and the fact of the matter is that rahm emanuel referred to immigration as the third rail of politics when he advised his

colleagues in congress not to pursue immigration reform, and then as chief of staff to the president of the united states, he also advised the president not to pursue immigration reform in the first year of his administration. but in chicago, we need to do more than just continue to protect the rights of immigrants in our city. we also have to advocate the mayor of the city of chicago has to also look at what's happening at the county level. and also has to advocate at the state level so that we can make sure that we're doing what is right with immigrants in the city of chicago. >> what would you tell a chicago police officer who is having the dilemma of not knowing whether to adhere to the city ordinance, the sanctuary city ordinance or to follow the rules of the program implemented by customs enforcement? >> mr. chico? >> i think it's pretty clear. the executive order is what that police officer operates under.

i think it's also a problem that what the federal government has done, again, perhaps under your leadership, has really an awful dragnet program right now for the most minor offenses to tear families apart, and deport people for minor traffic violations and other ordinance violations. this is wrong. this is only going to get straightened out when we once and for all have federal immigration reform. i am the grandson of a mexican immigrant from mexico who came here. i live this every day. and frankly, this is way, way past the time that it should have beened settled, and i'm looking forward to working with luis gutierrez to once and for all settle this issue. >> mr. emmanuel? >> obviously, a police officer has to follow the police sanctuary policy we have here. number one. number two, i think it's very important to also know that under president obama, naturalization of individuals who have come to the country has dramatically increased during the period of time of time also since my time has been in

question. also an appointment to the supreme court. sonja sew son sonia sotomayor as a supreme court member. third, the last time it was under ronald reagan back in 1986. this is a complicated issue, but we needed policy that reflects our values and also reflects our laws. and that means working together across party lines to get it done. >> thank you. ms. braun? >> the fact of the matter is that our immigration policy is broken, and we need to fix it. we need to fix it in ways that respect people, that provide for fairness, that is fair to the city of chicago and the people who live here. whether they are documented or not. and that is -- and what i would do specifically, again, is to try to work with the administration on behalf of comprehensive immigration reform in the first place. but in the meantime, lobby to

get the money back that we are right now having to pay as taxpayers here in chicago for what is basically an unfunded mandate by the federal government. it is not right for the federal government to insist that we do a thing, and then not send the money to let us do it. >> thank you. mr. del valle? >> i just talked to someone yesterday who said someone they know has been deported, and children have been left behind. this is happening quite often in the city of chicago. i think it's important that the mayor of the city of chicago ensure that all city departments, including the police department, are monitoring the activity within city limits. and that we then establish a line of communication with the federal government regarding the status of people here and ensuring that the federal government is respecting our local laws.

we have an ordinance in place. it's not an executive order. it's an ordinance. and if the federal government is not respecting that, then we need to take action, and certainly now is the time. >> thank you, mr. del valle. mr. emmanuel, the next mayor is going to face a huge, unfunded pension liability in the city. has to be paid. somehow. some have suggested if we get a casino license in chicago, send that right straight to the pension fund. is that a good idea, or what would you do? >> first of all, i believe in preserving the pension. my uncle, former police officer here in the city of chicago, 25 years, retired, is living on that pension. i believe that -- i also know that if we don't do anything within the decade, the pensions are going to run out of money to pay the retirement. i also fully reject raising property taxes 90% to pay for it. that's the other option. those extremes are not acceptable. when i first got to congress, i

worked with united airline flight attendants who had their pension eliminated. i never want to see that again. that means being honest, how to preserve it, make changes so you preserve it, so that people that are putting into it know that it's going to be a retirement system for them, since workers, police and firefighters do not get social security. that is their retirement system and their disability insurance. make sure that's done. you can look at the casino as a revenue source, but it has to be changed so that revenue source is part and parcel of a whole program to preserve the pension. >> thank you. ms. braun? >> you know, we have to protect retirement for city workers. while i was on the president's commission on pensions and retirement security, we took a deep look at this. and the first thing i would say to people is don't panic. we do have to fix this problem, but we're right now at the top of a demographic bubble, where there is the most pressure on the pension system. that will change, as we change -- as the generation

moves forward. the second thing we have to do, obviously, is fully fund our pensions and we have four systems in the city. we have to fund them and do better than we're doing now. that means getting away from the kind of spending -- the spending that didn't pay attention to this. when i talk about a leadership deficit, this is one of the areas where you see it. the most. because the attention was not being paid to what was happening with our pension system as they were spending going on in other arenas. there was not enough planning and foresight to make the contribution sufficient. i refuse, refuse to increase property taxes, certainly. but we can address this, i think, if we grow the economy in the city and create more jobs. >> thank you. mr. del valle? >> the pension problem is a problem created by government, created by the city, created by the state. because of our failure to contribute the employer share at an adequate level. and so now, what's the discussion? the discussion is, taking away benefits from current employees, which i think would be unconstitutional.

we've contracted with those individuals, and now we're going to take away either prospectively or current benefits. that is wrong. we have to find a revenue source to support our pensions. and so license is one of those possibilities. if that's not what goes, then we have to find another source so that we can make sure that we make these pension funds whole. they have to be helped. no doubt about it. and it has to happen real soon. >> mr. chico. >> ron, i've led the way on collective bargaining. that has included matters like pensions, pension contributions bch. it's not something i haven't seen. i will not tell our police officers and firefighters who protect us that i am going to cut their benefits. what we will do, however, and i think this is a proper role of leadership, is sit down in the room. i have said that i would lead the negotiations personally, to sit down with labor, and work

out an affordable solution for everyone. but we should honor the principle that a pension benefit level earned is one, a promise that we need to keep. and i will do that. as far as the casino license goes, i was the first candidate here to say that i would support a casino for chicago, because we need the revenue. if could be as much as 200 to $250 million annually for our city. a portion of which could be dedicated to something like this, where you wouldn't have to look at that 90% property tax increase. so i think it's absolutely in order to look at that kind of revenue. >> brief follow-up. of if we can. you have all talked about we're going to have to cut, find new revenue. can you each assure us that your first budget as mayor will be smaller than the current budget, and that it is a simple fact there will be higher taxes and fees of some kind? mr. emmanuel. >> first of all, i've laid out a

specific budget, line by line, that is balanced. it's one of the reasons, also, the "chicago sun times" "chicago tribune" and "chicago cranes business" have supported my candida candidacy, straight forward -- their editorial page -- honest and straight forward with the voters and fundamental reforms. ron, such as health care, we paid $500 million. consolidating procurement across the board saves $40 million. doing garbage collection different saves money. we'll have to make reforms through city government. i have a specific line by line plan of how you to do that. >> thank you. ms. brown? >> number one, again, no few taxes. a balanced budget, absolutely. i cosponsored the balanced budget constitutional amendment. i think it's important. number three, in terms of the budget, it has to be fair and

transparent. i believe we should put every dime online. put the budget online so the citizens of chicago can see where the money is going. that's a very important step. right now, our city government operates like the creme plkreml. in addition to that, making certain that we have the kind of budget transparency that respects and supports every community is very important. when you say a smaller budget, will it be smaller? probably. but will it be new taxes in it? absolutely not. >> the budget will be much smaller. but the question is, what will be the priorities? where are we going to start? we have to start in the mayor's office and reduce the cost of the mayor's office. we have to reduce the cost of the city council and eliminate committees. we have to lead by example and

look at the upper layer of management and start getting rid of some of the deputies who report to deputies. we need to cut personnel at that level. and i anticipate 50 to $100 million in cuts. then we in these to use surplus dollars and change how we collect garbage and collect overdue water bills. we need to look at who's paying water and who's not paying water in terms of not for profit organizations. we need to refinance debt. >> thank you. mr. chico. >> you're not going to balance the city budget with line item measure. the city budget will be smaller next year then this year. we're telling the working families, tighten your belt. give us more money. we're not doing anything. i'm not going to see that happen. i think it is about leadership. i've offered to cut my own pay

as mayor, 20% just to start. after i did that, the city council talked about reducing the number of committees. the bottom line is that the entire chicago government will have to be cut back in size. we can't afford to go along any more like this. >> that brings us to our closing statements. we begin with mr. del valle. >> chicago is ready for reform. we'll have to make a decision, voters. we're going to decide are we going to take full advantage of this historic opportunity in this election? i've heard when we reach that turning point, we're turning in the right direction. in a direction that says we're going to have balanced growth and balanced development. that we're finally going to engage our neighborhoods in a process that will ensure we will live up to that process as a world class city that we don't have right now. because we don't have world class neighborhoods.

do we do it by electing an individual who has made millions of dollars and profited from their associations with government or do we start anew with a reform government that is going to once and for all put the people first before special interests in the city of chicago? this is the opportunity. take advantage of it. it's time, chicago. >> ms. brown. >> as we grow our economy, we have to remain focused on fairness. chicago's 3% minority contract participation is a travesty in a city that has a 47% minority population and a sad commentary on race and diversity in this city. by stream lining city government and making it more responsive, government can become an ally of the people who create businesses in this town who create the jobs that this town so badly needs. by protecting retirement security, we preserve the standard of living for our work

face by holding the line on taxes. we have to -- in egypt two weeks ago -- the people demanded democracy and got. we should do no less for chicago and choose reform, open government and accountability. here in this city, they're trying to tell you this election is over. that the money has won it. but i want to tell you something. it's not over until you, the voters speak. and i think that if the voters on the 22nd vote for themselves, we will fight the power. we will have democracy in chicago. >> thank you. mr. chico. >> thank you, ron. we need to go in a new direction in our city. that's the reason i'm running for mayor. the city that we love has lost its momentum. i'd like to offer my experience to get us back on track. i've delivered genuine change each and every time i've been asked to serve. i know how this city works. and right now it's to the working for you. our streets are not safe enough.

we don't have enough jobs. our schools are not performing at the level we'd like. i grew up on 33rd and ashlynn and watched my mom and dad strug toll pay the bills. i'm not going to let the city rifle through your pockets. i'll force the city to live within its means. i humbly ask for your support to be your next mayor. >> this has been a very good debate. these are very good public servants that i consider friends. denial is not a long-term strategy. for too long on the issue of facing crime on your steereets our economy and stability of our economy, we have been operating as if denial is a long-term

strategy. when you get to a fork in the road, take it. chicago's at that fork. we need a mayor who has the strength, confidence and resi resilience to make those decisions. i want this city to be the great city it is. the decisions we make as a city in the next two years, three years, will determine the course we're on. i want it to be a city my children can call home. >> thank you very much. that concludes the debate between the leading candidates for mayor of chicago. i want to thank carl mosley brown, ron del valle, ron chico and rahm emanuel. thank you to our partners in the production of this event, the league of women voters, chicago loop alliance, the league of chicago theatres, the planning council, the chicago urban league, the national conference of la rosa and univision. we thank the voters of chicago.

it will meaning in unless you come out to vote on february