so what did we get? we didn't get a nuclear war. thank goodness. but look at something not that much better. we got a series of limited proxy wars, the korean war being the chief example followed by the vietnam war, and goes on and on. so that's where we are. and that's, you know, kind of the context of this book, and wanting to find out more about mission or an historic and how how it might relate to events. so, want to just mention some of those. it's nice to have my nose james mischer will make it a lot easier. at the time of korea james mission or was, in fact, a journalist. he was under contract to the reader's digest and "saturday evening post." remember that magazine? so he was a journalist.

in fact, embedded, that term comes up now a lot with both troops on the ground but also navy ships at sea. now, he himself had been a naval officer during world war ii, and he written a book called tales of the south pacific. is that familiar? you know what happened to the book, right? remember the stories in the base became the basis for the rodgers and hammerstein musical. the tale of the south pacific, it was a world war ii novel but is kind of unusual in that it wasn't about, wasn't directly about combat. it was about behind the lines. specifically islands in the south pacific where a lot of navy personnel were kind of waiting out the war, doing their

jobs, looking up for the buddies but not involved in fighting. and they were also, many of them for the first time in a cultural setting, different cultures, different race, different ethnicity that they had never had to deal with this before. so it was about trying to adapt to those circumstances. now it happened to win the pulitzer prize, so at the time of the korean war, nation or was kind of a famous author and houston-based dispatches these dispatches to the reader's digest and "saturday evening post" anti-newspapers as well. everybody remember newspapers? so he was embedded. so i got his manuscript and his notes. they are all on microfilm. and some for my own network of contacts. i began to see if i could find some of the sailors and airmen

who were on those ships. michner was on uss essex and he was on the uss valley forge. usually for about a month at a time. so i started identifying people who have been there at the time, and i would ask them, here's this character in "the bridges of toko-ri." who was this in real life? and luckily for me everybody knew who these people were. unluckily for me, everybody knew it to be a different person. so you talk to seven people who were there, it was a guy they knew seven different guys. so i had to kind of sort this out myself. now, i'm going to just give you -- this is not ticking off the storylines but i want to make a couple of parallels.

it's remember, i'm going to use the movie as the touchstone here. if you remember in "the bridges of toko-ri," the movie, the main pilot was a guy named harry brubaker, right? harry brubaker. william holden, okay? died at the end of the movie. so who was this guy in real life? well, it turns out that on the uss valley forge there was a pilot, an older pilot, he was all of 29 but they called him pop's, whose name was donald brubaker, and he kind of looks like william holden. now, if you remember from the movie william holden arranged to bring his wife, grace kelly, over on our and our. that's chilly not something that happened during those times.

it definitely was discouraged, but interestingly enough, michener had brought his own wife over to stay in japan while he was off with the army on the ground in the navy at sea. and michener his own background -- donald brubaker -- harry brubaker was supposedly had been a lawyer in denver and had been called back to the war. that was another main aspect of the war, a lot of people have served initially in this war were reservists. many of whom had world war ii service already. they had their war and now they're being called back to another, and that was the case with harry brubaker. but brubaker was an attorney supposedly in the book, an attorney in denver. michener wasn't an attorney but he had been a college professor in denver. so you can lead to far with this but if you want to draw, all of

these things, if you want to draw the parallels, the parallels may be between michener and brubaker, and michener bring his wife over to korea. of course, in real life their marriage dissolved after the korean war, mainly because he accused her of drinking and fooling around with every officer and correspondent in japan while he was off. so is kind of an idealized picture of what michener was experiencing. to you all remember the character, that mickey rooney played, the helicopter pilot, the guy wearing the green top hat and scarf? his name was mike thorny. the direct parallel for mike forney is a guy named duane thorin. i think it's pronounced doing a

story. but he was an american nebraska farm boy who was an enlisted pilot in the navy. i think it's now widely recognized at the beginning of world war ii a fair number of a naval aviators were actually, come to the enlistment ranks. they are and aviation pilots. many of them when world war ii hit got promoted to the officer rank. but duane thorin had started as a pilot during the later stages of world war ii, enlisted status of to chief petty officer. and after the war he stayed in the navy, but he soon realized the post world war ii world, that if he was flying in a multi-engine plane it would be a copilot. and the copilot was in a officer whether he was the copilot were pilot, he ruled the cockpit.

and dewayne had his perspective on some of these young flyers, guys like me coming out of college and athletic training. he didn't think i was going to be for him. for chilly for him he came upon a new type of aircraft, helicopter. the first time the helicopter was widely used in military operations within korea. and so, and they only required one flyer, so he could fly his own aircraft. in fact, a lot of the pilots, the helicopter posturing the korean war had come up through the naval aviation pilot ranks. now, these helicopters, i mean, they are no relation to the helicopters even in vietnam and certainly not in iraq and afghanistan. they could barely cover. they more or less flu-like frisbees. they had to go forward to stay in the air. they couldn't land at any altitude are coming, they could

not go in the mountains to conduct a rescue. and as one pilot described it to me for the book, they had about -- they had about enough strength to lift a drunken whore off the couch. [laughter] >> so they were too much to fly. but they were, you know, obviously you see from the program and the movie mash, they were critical to rescuing injured soldiers. and very critical to rescuing pilots out of the water. a unique feature about the naval air war in korea is that it was located not in the south pacific, not around equally her, and it was in the sea of japan. very far north. a pilot who took off on a combat mission had to real risks. one was being shut down by the

koreans or the chinese communists. the other risk was not making it back to the carrier. because if you crashed in the ocean and got out of his plane, and if he wasn't not properly protected, his life expectancy was roughly under 20 minutes. now, to deal with that, the navy came up with something that was called up to the suit. i asked for the meaning of that term from the pilot and one guy said very simple. if you're in up to be soup which is basically a galvanized rubber comment look like a deep-sea divers suit, if you're in a poopie said 44 our mission and nature called, that's where you would answer nature. they called it the poopie suit.

with these suits, they stood a chance of surviving in the water, but if water got in through the neck or through one of the armored sleds, it also could become, would kill you that much faster because goldwater was in there. so it was very essential to rescue these pilots in this timely fashion, by helicopter, by ship, there were a number of destroyers and cruisers in these formations. so mickey rooney is duane thorin. now, the one difference and i actually read duane thorin's memoirs. they were out there on the internet. he took exception with the mickey rooney character because he was not a drinker. he was not a womanizer. he was not make even a but he always had the reputation of being naked and. the man in the back of the cubans helicopter, a guy named

ernie crawford. and there was one famous rescue mentioned in this book where, in the course of probably about an hour, duane thorin had to pick up a pot who had crashed. and in doing so ernie crawford had to jump in the water, stay in the water while duane thorin could take the fly back to a destroyer. and ernie crawford had to stay in the water still while duane thorin went to rescue a pilot that had been shot down close by, and was running on the beach trying to escape the north koreans. so he picked up that guy, took them back to the ship. and only then could he go get ernie crawford. ernie crawford state in the water a long time. and he had a survival suit on, and i think he only lost a degree of the body temperature,

but it was a real test of endurance for which he got the navy cross. now interestingly, the pilot that originally rescued was taken to a destroyer. he was near death. nearly frozen, and i don't know whether -- this maybe a little bs around this, but supposedly the pharmacist mate on the destroyer, it was the uss cole let go brought this flyer act to life, had in civilian life had been guess what? and undertaker. so he knew about i guess he knew that keeping bodies warm, and i guess he knew in the reverse about warming up cold bodies. the guy lived. and interesting he lived, but in another these cases the pilots come if you do this long enough it will get you. the pilot died during civilian flight maybe 10 years later.

so, those are some of the parallels of people. there's also, it's called "the bridges of toko-ri." was there a toko-ri? yes, there was. but it was actually a combination of other village names that composite that michener made into toko-ri. the actual site was sam domine. it happened to be in north korea, a little railway by station where there were some bridges. and the mission that you see in "the bridges of toko-ri" and which you've read about in the book was actually a combination of missions. one was the destruction of these bridges going on in one part of the country, and the other part of that episode was duane thorin trying to rescue a pilot named

harry ettinger who had escaped from communist captivity. now, if you read the michener notes, you will see that he says unfortunately, duane thorin and harry ettinger did not survive this incident, nor did the pilot, supposedly the william holden character. they all died. the truth was they thought they had died but at the end of the war, lo and behold the three emerged from communist prison camps. so i mean, that was kind of the nature of this war. and i guess a lot of wars, aviators were captured, aside from the brutality they went through, nobody knew where they were. they all emerged at the end of the war. i want to talk about one final

parallel, and that's between "the bridges of toko-ri" and another book. while james michener was in north korea serving with the marines, embedded with the marines or gis in 1952 i believe, he was approached by "life" magazine to write what's called a blurb blurb, kind of a promotional statement about a book that is coming out. and it was a book that's going to be published in "life" magazine. it was by an author, a good author, what kind of fallen on hard times and was trying to make a comeback through this book. any ideas who that author was? ernest hemingway. ernest hemingway had written a short book called the old man in the seat. and it's about an older kuebler

fischman who goes out on a boat, i guess it tomorrow night he hooks, a big fish, a huge fish and is out to buy and sell. and he makes his way back to the shore, but by the time he gets there all that is left of the fish he has captured is the skeleton. so, so michener read this book. and had kind of a transforming effect on them. he wrote the blurb, and the book was published in "life" magazine with great success, and i think it was two years later when hemingway actually won the nobel prize for literature based on this book. so the parallel is that michener had been looking for a way to capture his korean experience in a book, and his agent said, well, why don't you do something like hemingway did for "life" magazine?

do a book that, you know, 30,000 words, we will get it published in "life" magazine. and he did. and it was a great success as well, and obviously became a movie. now, to me there are just some irresistible parallels there. the issue of fighting the ocean, fighting a formidable enemy whether it is the koreans or the fish or the sharks, and kind of talking your way through, doing your duty, the things you are responsible for. doing only things you can take responsibility for. so if you look at the cuban fischman and the pilot in "the bridges of toko-ri," it may be kind of a link but there are some real links between "the bridges of toko-ri" and "the old man and the sea." now, just a few stories come and i've got to be careful here both on time so i'm looking around to see if anybody is signaling

about time, not yet. okay, i'm going to mention some of these. i'm not going to tip off the end of the story because you've got to buy this book, it's a great. [laughter] but i hope you read them and enjoy them. and again, the focus is not so much, you know, winning the war single-handedly as it is doing your duty and taking care of your buddies. there are a couple of what i call blind pilot incidents in "such men as these," and these are circumstances where flyers are out on the mission, and most of these missions for the navy anyway, you know, they are not fighting mig aircraft. but they are supporting the ground groups -- ground troops. so that's what they are doing. while flying these missions, in

one instance i pilot ran into what was, there's a high tension wire strung across the valley during a run, and this pilot literally had his cockpit shattered, and his face, he was blinded, blinded in his eyes. his cheek was cut. is wind was been. he couldn't see, and he passed out. now, flyers don't flight alone. they have a wing man. this guys name was ed jackson, and his wingman was a guy named dayl crow. dayl crow was called a tail end charlie, like the youngest guy in the squadron, the most junior, the guy who has everything to learn. and suddenly it's his responsibility to somehow talk ed jackson back to the carrier

to land. so that's i think it's a great story. and there's another one just like it involving a pilot named howard thayer, and kenneth schechter. in this case kenneth, his plane was hit by antiaircraft fire. he was -- he was blinded as well and remains blind to this day. here i go tipping off the story. but howard thayer had to talking back to a landing on a dirt airstrip in south korea. so those are kind of, to me, with amazing stories and amazing people to talk to. there's also the story of jesse leroy brown. jesse leroy brown was the first black naval aviator. he received his wings and i

think 1947, and he's an interesting parallel for example, to the tuskegee airmen, army air force pilots, who earned their wings as a group. were as jesse leroy brown had to earn his wings -- he had to do two things. he had to prove his worth as a pilot and he had to overcome racial discrimination. so his is a really compelling story. now, so he flew in korea. he flew a propeller aircraft. for those of you -- it's a world war ii era aircraft that was used in korea, primarily because it's the aircraft they had and it was for ground support. it made sense to have slower

aircraft. but during one of jesse leroy brown's very first missions, actually it was during the retreat from the reservoir when you're doing a lot of ground force, his plane was shot down. it was shot down in a mountainous region, and one of the other pilots on the flight was a guy named thomas hudner. i think those of you who remember the library know the name thomas hudner as a medal of honor. he made the choice, nothing wrong with this plan, jesse leroy brown is down but thomas hudner's plane is flying perfectly well. he decided to crash land his plane in that mountain in an effort to rescue jesse leroy brown. and to compound that, a helicopter pilot, remember these helicopters are not very strong and they can't fly at high

elevation, they can hover, came in to try and help thomas hudner. a great compelling story and i will not tip off the end but it's a very compelling story. i've already mentioned the duane thorin rescue. i mentioned harry ettinger. not a huge portion of this book but fairly representative portion of this book is about pows in korea. and harriet and your -- harry ettinger, my interview with harry ettinger was he told me, you know, my actual combat experts in north korea was about 1.2 hours. he was on a night mission, was shot down by the north koreans, and spent the next 18 months in captivity. and during all that time, there was great pressure, probably a

story for another presentation from a great pressure on these pilots, both u.s. force and navy pilots to admit that they've been involved in biological warfare. and during these 18 months, harry ettinger just never gave them. to all kinds of pressure. and if there's ever a story about an everyday person involved in extraordinary events for a period of 18 months, it's harry ettinger's story. he is a real american hero. and they are i think we're going to stop. those are just some examples of the stories in "such men as these." you know, in a way it's kind of -- this book is kind of a detour for me because i had been writing about world war ii in my

first two books, and my next book is going to be about world war ii, about naval aviator's in the pacific war. so to suddenly write about korea was a detour for me. and right now i'm in the midst of this other book, so this is in the past for me. and so, you know, i come here. i'm anxious to talk about this book and to answer your questions. but i feel like there maybe some people people in the audience who know more about this than i do because i'm in my other book. but i will do my best and your questions, and i appreciate you all being here, especially you veterans, again, you navy veterans. my thanks and apologies and i hope to see you again in the future. [applause] >> thank you. >> i'm going to take the liberty of the first question, david.

i think we have time for a couple of questions before we end the television part. as we record this program, this is the 60th anniversary, the beginning of the korean war. called the forgotten war. how do you think people are going to do this particular anniversary? and what can we learn from that experience? >> let me ask, how many of the veterans here are korean war veterans? let's hear it for them. applaud the. [applause] >> and to try to answer your question i really don't know. i know it's often called the forgotten war or police action. the point of my book, hopefully it will show in its sales in its inception is that we may have forgotten war but we should

never have forgotten heroes. we should remember people who serve our country in any and all circumstances. i think the thing that is important about the korean war, you know, it's called the forgotten war, but it may have been called the forgotten win. because at a time in history where communists aggression was on the march, you know, through the soviet union, to the chinese communists and into korea, he was a point in history where collectively, and i mean that collectively, this is primarily fought by americans on our side, it was under the auspices of the united nations. there were at least 22 other countries that sent troops to korea, a wide range of countries. and so at this moment in time, collectively a group of countries stepped in to stop

aggression. and obviously the situation with north korea continues to this day, but if you contrast what's happening in south korea with what's happening in north korea, you really get the sense that this was an important time in our history, and an important conflict where we prevailed collectively. that's my thoughts. >> good evening. >> hi. >> did they prefer to ditch their aircraft rather than resort to aggressions? they love to fire their parachutes. >> i will tell you a story, this is going to tip off a little bit

about ed jackson. at jackson was the pilot who was blinded. now, the korean war was the first time in chechen seats were used. and initially you had to be at a certain altitude before you are quote unquote about the use these ejection seats. but i don't think anyone paid attention to that if they had to get out of the plane. but anyway, ed jackson faced that choice as well. he was blind. he was over the ocean. if you want to ditch, what are your choices? ..

>> he can't get to the controlses, he's up in the air like this. and finally, you know, the ejection seat finally slid down, and he was able to get control. but then even though he was blinded and face with the the possibility of ditching or trying to land, frankly, he wanted to land. he didn't want to ditch. there's a pilot in the, in the book, a guy named -- i can't remember the first name, his last name is grey. they called him the bald eagle, and he figured very prominently in the combat history of the essex. he was later interesting enough in vietnam, grey was the commanding officer of the swift boats. so korean veteran flier ends up commanding swift boats in vietnam. but he, he had a saying. i think he had ditched three

times, and he said, you know, you only ditch once. and the other times, you know you're just gonna die. they wanted to avoid ditching if they at all could for reasons of, you know, those jet planes, they're slower jet planes, but they're jet planes, nonetheless, so they're going fast. the sea of japan is cold and it's rough, and you have -- these planes are not flowation devices. they go down pretty quickly. so i think given a choice, they would try to land. >> david sears. [applause] our thanks to david sears for joining us, the book is "such men as these" published by decam poe press. download our program's podcast by visiting pritzker military

library.org. i'm ed tracy, thanks for joining us. [applause] >> you briefly mentioned air-to-air combat. >> i'm looking for you. where are you? >> here i am. >> oh treasures you are. [laughter] >> you briefly mentioned air air-to-air combat, were any russian pilots ever captured, to your knowledge? is. >> i don't know the specific answer to that question. it was widely believed and, i think, documented that russian pilots flew some of these aircraft. there is an incident here involving a pilot. god, see, i can't remember these names anymore. let's see, can i get his name? a guy named royce williams who

actually engaged i think it was six, was surrounded by six migs and fought his way through that. and afterwards they pretty much -- i think the nsa which was just coming into being hen, the nsa -- then, the nsa was monitoring the radio circuits, and they pretty much confirmed that those were russian pilots. now, you know, during during the air-to-air combat in korea was mainly conducted on our side by the u.s. air force, and they would fly up near and engaging communist pilots up there. the real reason was almost undoubtedly that the communist pilots didn't want to crash south. they wanted to be able to retreat home. so you have to deduce from that that these were russian pilots. you know, it's interesting about

the carrier aircraft and the u.s. navy. this may get too technical for some people, i'll keep it brief. but these were straight-wing planes, these jets, and the reason was that they had to land on aircraft carriers. they had to be able to maintain a low stall speed so they could land on these carriers. and that, in turn, made them less effective than the swept-wing jets that the u.s. air force were flying. >> you mentioned the problem of flying off of the sea of japan with the cold, you know, the cold water. >> right. >> that was, the sea of japan is north and east of korea. >> right. >> there's another sea to the south and west, the east china sea. >> right. >> to what extent did our carriers operate in the east china sea? >> they operated, early in the war they operated there, in fact, most of them operated in

the east china sea? i guess, okay. but as the war went on, they got more and more responsibility for interdicting supply trails down from the north. and most of hair targets were going to be -- their targets were going to be in central korea and on the coast. so they ended up shifting the aircraft carriers over to the, to the sea of japan. >> i have one comment and a couple questions. >> uh-oh. >> one is in respect to a program that was on the military channel just this past week where they were talking about the comparability between the f-86 and the migs, and they said the mig pilots were afraid to take on the f-86. so that's one comment. it was on the military channel. >> okay. >> the questions i have, i went through your book, i didn't see

anything there about a couple of reservists who were called back in by the name of ted williams and jerry coleman. >> oh, they're marines. one was a marine. >> okay. >> hey, listen, you've got to make choices. anytime you write a book and especially when you write about world war ii history, korean war history you're not going to include all the things that could rightfully be in there. but, hey, i gotta do 300 pages. >> the only reason i bring it up, i'm a naval aviator, and i flew in the marine corps. [laughter] just one last point -- >> you know, one guy i did get into this book you may have heard of, neil armstrong. >> okay. i'm going to speak up for my helicopter friends. >> okay. >> what happened 161vmo6? they were flying helicopters, the first engagements you had were over in korea. they were the people who picked up all the folks for the m.a.s.h. units. >> okay.

and, in fact, the pilot that took his helicopter in -- this is in my own defense here -- the pilot that went in to try to rescue tom and jesse was a marine pilot a guy named charlie ward. so i've got some marines in there. not enough. [laughter] you know, this is, this is, this is about -- in terms of the carriers, it's about the ethics class carriers. another category of carrier was called the escort carriers, cves, and those were the smaller carriers that flew the marine squadrons. so the sea-based marine squadrons flew off escort carriers. and i kind of stuck to the ethics class carriers. only can do so much, but so little time, so many books, you know? [laughter] >> i'd like to acknowledge

tonight that we have a large contingent of veterans from world war ii from the buffalo grove jewish war veterans post number 89. gentlemen, thank you for your service, thank you for coming to the pritzker military library. and our founder is here, also, tonight, james pritzker, he's in the balcony up there. [applause] >> he's the one i thought might be giving you guys tomatoes. [laughter] >> seriously, i'd like to personally welcome all of you here, post 89, and i wonder if you could do me a favor? i signed up for the jewish war veterans when i was still somewhere in the first six months i joined the army back in 1934. -- 1974. do we a favor, see if they've still got me listed somewhere. [laughter] it's been a while.

i've been a member of the organization, yeah, since about the early 1970s or '74, and for those of you who are not members, i believe the jewish war veterans is one of this country's oldest veterans' organization. >> yes. >> founded in -- >> [inaudible] some of the earlier organizations like the grand army of the republic, you know, founded just after the civil war, they didn't make a provision for adding of anybody past the civil war. and one of the really significant things about your being here and why i formed this library is so that between us we had something to pass on to our children. this -- many of the books in this library come from members of my family. my father and mother were great bib lo files, so was my grandfather, a.m. pritzker, u.s.

navy world war i. my great, my great grandfather taught himself english selling papers in the streets of chicago. and, you know, for you people to be here tonight is particularly significant to me personally because, you know, you're part of the family, so to speak, when you're here tonight. so i'm really grateful for your being here and helping my family unite with with your families to pass something on to our children which is i know something we all have an interest in. thank you very much. [applause] >> we're going to go a little bit off topic tonight because we have such a distinguished group here, and we have one more question in the back. hold on. okay? >> i'm a member of the jvw -- >> uh-huh?

>> and i, i've been a member for, i don't know, maybe 10 or 15 years. but i was in the air force -- >> since you were 12, right? >> yeah. [laughter] i was in the air force -- >> [inaudible] >> and when i was there, and when i was in, i was flying with the air force in england. >> what type of aerocraft? >> what happened? >> what type of aircraft? >> oh, b-4. >> okay. >> and when i was flying there -- >> that was a dangerous machine. >> yea. [laughter] and when i was flying there, i was shot down. >> uh-huh? >> i was shot down over fredericks in germany. >> uh-huh.

you're jewish, right? >> yes. >> special concerns, huh? >> yeah. and we went, from there we flew at 1500 feet we flew to france. >> uh-huh? >> and from france we bailed out, and we, we flew, and we landed in france, and we were taken in by the underground. >> right. >> and we went through all of france, all of down to toulouse which the germans emptied the train and tried to catch us -- >> uh-huh. >> -- but they weren't able to. and then we went to, we went into spain -- >> over the pyrenees? >> pardon? >> over the pyrenees? >> yes. >> uh-huh. >> and we were, there we were

thrown into jail because they were pro-nazi. >> uh-huh. and from there, fortunately, we went back to england, and that was it. >> uh-huh. >> but during that time whatever you've mentioned, the our experiences -- our experiences were entirely different from what you had. >> oh, yeah. i would never, never, you know, purport to say that my experience in the military or in writing these books compares with the people that i'm writing about. never. >> one more in the back here. >> just one more -- are you, i'm just trying to think of this organization there, there is a,

i think t in texas, an organization of -- i'm going to get the name wrong, but it's for aviators who have crashed or parachuted behind enemy lines and escaped and evaded. >> i'm a member. >> you have? okay, that's a great organization. >> yes. >> i know the guy that does the newsletter for that -- >> oh, is that right? is. >> yeah. in texas, right? he's a big bridge player, i think. [laughter] yeah. >> we have one more question in the back. >> sorry. >> i've got a couple of questions, or one questions. but i'd like to put in a plug for the jewish war veterans' museum washington d.c. it's rather off the beaten track, but if you get there, anybody gets there, it's something to look up and go see because it's very, very interesting, and they have a lot of really interesting artifacts from jewish war veterans all through american military history. but my real question is could

you give us a little synopsis of what your other two previous weeks are about -- books are about? is. >> yeah. well, please, i'd love to, yeah. [laughter] thank you. one book is, it's called the last epic naval battle, and it's about the battle of laity gulf. the slant i took was interviewing 60 veterans of that battle and focusing on the 12 hours between the ship sailing into the strait and the end of the action off sumar. i didn't include the halsey event, much to my lasting disgrace, but that's what that book was about. the idea was to take 60 veterans, get their stories and meld it into a narrative, which i did. the last book i wrote, "at war with the wind," is about the u.s. navy's experiences in the

pacific with japanese kamikaze aircraft. and for that people tell me there are no world war ii veterans around, well, you could fool me because i talked to 300 of them in doing that book. you know, just snippets here and there, but forming a narrative out of that. so -- >> this isn't a question, it's just a comment, but i just recently visited the united states air force museum in dayton, ohio, and if nobody's -- if you haven't visited, you really should go. and they're going to be doing the korean, the korean war? they're going to redo that whole, all the aircraft there. they're working on it now. i don't know if it's open yet. but if anyone wants to really see a lot of airplanes, that's where to go. [laughter] >> great, great. i believe, you know, there's some talk of a korean war museum

being -- >> illinois. >> in illinois, okay. >> i'd just like to ask everybody if you had a great time at the pritzker military library in chicago. [applause] our 290th program, and you can see them every week on the internet or on television. david sears. [applause] >> thank you. >> if you're just joining us, the book is "such men as these," published by decampo press. visit us at pretty kerr military library -- pritzker military library.org. i'm ed tracy, thanks for joining us and thanks for coming. [applause] >> david sears is the author of several books including "the last epic naval battle" "and at war with the wind." he's a former u.s. navy officer. for more information visit

pritzker military library.org. >> we're here at the national press club talking with maureen beasley about her new book, "eleanor roosevelt: transformative first lady." can you tell me what aspects of her life you concentrated on? >> yes. well, this book concentrates on the way eleanor roosevelt wrote the script for first ladies. now, every first lady since eleanor has either followed the script or hasn't followed the script, but at least they've had to read the script. they've had to know about it. there are lots of books on eleanor roosevelt, but what this book does is tell what she did in the white house to make the job of first lady more than just that of a hostess or somebody who was interested, perhaps, in a cause or two. she really made the first ladyship a potent part of the american presidency. >> so was the script that she

wrote giving the first lady a role to play in policy? >> >> the script show what happened a first lady could do. the script showed that the first lady could make the job of the president's wife of into one in which she could promote the administration, she could show the public that the presidency was interested in individuals, chef the public face of her concern she was the public -- she was the public face of her husband's political program, the new deal. but because she traveled so much and because she really had an innate love of people, she made it a lot more than just passing laws. she made it a way of connecting with people. >> did you, um, come upon any facts that you hadn't previously known about her in your research? >> in doing the research for the

book, i was struck by the way her personal life impacted on the way that she developed the role of the first lady. for example, when she first became first lady, she had some reservations about this because she said i just don't want to sit in the white house and pour tea. at that time she had an intimate friend, a newspaper reporter, lorena hickok, political reporter for the associated press, and it was lorena who introduced elle more to the plight -- eleanor to the plight of miners in west virginia who were living in horrible circumstances. so one of eleanor's first projects as first lady was to try to do something about these miners and set up a model community called arthurdale. but she probably wouldn't have gotten interested in arthurdale had it not been for lorena

hickok. similarly, before the second world war eleanor had a very warm personal relationship with a young man named joel lash who was a socialist and a leader of the student movement. and eleanor had always been interested in young people. but because of this very warm relationship with lash, she became especially involved in causes of young people and international student work and ways of trying to get young people as part of the politicals process. also in doing so, because lash had skirted communism, in fact, i think he was a communist at one point, she learned a lot about communists. she said she did. and the fact she learned so much about communists prepared her later on in the united nations to know how to deal with them.

>> thank you very much for your time. >> c-span's book "abraham lincoln: great american historians and our 16th president," is a unique contemporary perspective on mr. lincoln from 56 scholars, journal i'lls and writers. from his early years to his presidency during one of our nation's most troubled times and his relevance today. and now for presidents day and while supplies last, the publishers are offering the c-span viewers the hardcover edition of abraham lincoln for the special price of $5 plus shipping and handling. go to c-span.org/books and be sure to use the promo code "lincoln "at checkout. >> well, there's a new online enterprise just starting up, and it is called the washington independent review of books. david stewart is the president of this organization, mr. stewart, what is your organization? is. >> guest: well, it's a group of writers and editors and

similarly-minded people in, mostly in the d.c. area who are very dismayed by the shriveling of book review space and sort of the standard media. a lot of book review sections have been folded, they've shrunk, and it's just harder to find information about what's going on in the world of books these days. coverage of the publishing industry has shrunk. so we decided to try to do something ourselves. this is really sort of from the old judy garland/mickey rooney movies where they say, let's put on a show. we decided, well, we would create our own book review. and there's about 70 of us have been engaged in us, and we've just launched and had a great response. it's been a lot of fun and very gratifying. >> host: and, now, what kind of books will you be reviewing on this site? >> guest: a wide range. we're going to really review nonfiction and fiction. we suspect for now we're not

going to be looking at children's books, and we won't be looking at romance literature. but beyond that we're quite open. and we'll be reviewing recently-released books. we hope to get our reviews up within the first 30-45 days after publication. so you can come to us for current information about what are the new books out there. >> host: now, can people submit books to be reviewed as well? >> guest: we'd rather not get the books, but they can certainly bring them to our anticipation because we'll have to decide -- attention because we'll have to decide whether we want to review them. you can get a lot of books that way that are hard to deal with. so we certainly invite people to e-mail us, bring their books to our attention, send us their publicity packets so we know in plenty of time that it's coming, and we can decide whether it's one we want to take a shot at reviewing.

>> host: mr. stewart, you said a lot of your reviewers and people involved in the washington independent review of books have backgrounds in writing and publishing. what's your background, and give us a snapshot of some of the people who will be participating. >> guest: well, my background is, i was a lawyer for many years, but i'm now an author, have done a couple of books on american history, one on writing the constitution, the summer of 1787. one on the impeachment trial of andrew johnson, "impeached," and i have a new one coming out this fall on aaron burr, it's called "the american emperor." the other folks involved come from journalism, there are book writers as well. we've been so lucky in recruiting reviewers. we've got for a book on the eichmann trial in israel we were able to get judge patricia walt who was on the war crimes tribunal for yugoslavia.

we've been able to get leading constitutional scholars to look at a first amendment book for us. it's, we've just had a terrific response from people. just as an example, pauline my year at mit who's got a wonderful book out about the ratification of the constitution is going to review a new book on the revolution by gordon wood. so we've really been able to get topnotch reviewers, and it's an exciting thing. and, you know, everybody in this operation works for the same amount of money, nobody's paid -- that includes our reviewers -- so it's just wonderful to see people willing to pitch many to create this conversation about the world of books which is really what we are all about. >> host: and there has been a decline in traditional media review of books, but online there is quite a active marketplace of reviewers. what do you bring to the table that's different? >> guest: well, i think we're going to bring the depth and the

quality of our reviewers. we also are doing features. we're going to have author interviews and q&as, we have a couple of radio interviewer partners who will be putting up podcasts. so we'll provide a full range of information. and i think, you know, the other operations that are trying to do the same thing are doing the lord's work as well, and i certainly support what they're up to, but i think there's room for a lot of voices, and that's important recruiting a viewing books is that there are a lot -- recruiting a viewing books. >> host: will you be looking at politically slanted books as well, and will you be looking at both books from the left and from the right and from the middlesome. >> guest: of course. you know, we're, you know, predominantly with washington area writers, we have a lot of

interest in political and historical topics, and we'll take them all on from every point on the spectrum. >> host: and how often will you be putting up new material? >> guest: ing we will have new content up every day, either a new interview or new review. you know, as in the early days we're trying not to set the bar too high for ourselves, but as time goes on, we expect the content to become richer and richer and really looking forward to that. >> host: and, mr. stewart, you say on your web site that you got your seed money through the aiw freedom to write fund. what is that? >> guest: well, it's associated with american independent writers which is a writers' organization here in the d.c. area, and the freedom to write fund is a 501(c)(3) that's affiliated with aiw. and we've done very modest fundraising and would need to do more, but enough to get