look at the dirtiest dozen government failures over the past 100 years so that should be very interesting, something definitely to keep in mind. >> tell me, does the institute have its own press or do they publish through someone else? explain how this works. >> the institute does publisher on books. we also work with outside publisher so as you see here for some of our books of that are self-published entities published against leviathan on, lessons from the poor but we have also worked with other publishers including housing america and liberty nor safety are both outside publisher's. but we do both. >> thank you very much for your time. >> thank you so much. >> from new york city, liel leibovitz recounts the visit of 120 boys from china's qing empire to america in 1872.

the boys and listed as members of the chinese educational mission were sent to the united states united states to learn the innovations of the last and return to china with new ideas. this is about 35 minutes. >> before i start to tell you the story of these remarkable men, i would like to tell a very short story of a far less remarkable man, myself. i was born in tel aviv, israel and when i was about 10 years old, and mother took me to spend the summer in a mysterious, exotic, faraway land filled with rich and splendid treasures. i'm talking of course about new jersey. and when i got to new jersey and attended summer camp for a couple of months, i made a bunch of startling discoveries. some discoveries were small, like the fact that previously

believed to reside in fruit actually could come in a box or that there was a channel on tv that had nothing but cartoons. at other discoveries were significantly larger, like baseball. even with my and cartoon 10-year-old mind i knew there was something profound and profoundly american about race ball. a game which you could strike out 60 or 70% of the time and still go back to bed, still swing and still win. and i knew that i wanted to live in america. i went back home at the end of the summer in 10 years later moved to new york. a couple of years ago, my wife and i, i was at a graduate school, and we decided to spend some time in china. here we are in beijing in one of these quintessentially beijing smoggy, hazy, rainy afternoons

and nothing to do except sort of stare at the very small television with exactly one channel in our hotel room. and we see a picture of this boy in the picture was clearly taken sometime in the 19th century. the boy was very clearly chinese in the building next to which he was standing was very clearly eel university. i sort of thought to myself, i have no idea that there were chinese students in yale university nonetheless in the 19th century. and i started researching the story, and discovered that these remarkable young men whose story i will soon tell you, they wrote a lot of letters and they kept journals and when i read their journals in their letters, i couldn't help it feel an immediate sense of tremendous, tremendous empathy because like them i came from a different culture and like they i came here to attend school. and like them i felt that i had to work really really hard to understand what the culture was

about anti-fit in. like them i couldn't help but feel no matter how hard i tried perhaps incurably there would always be a little bit of foreign this. on that cheerful note let me tell you the story of the fortunate sons. it begins in 1872 or rather a few years before in china. china in the second half of the 19th century is a country teetering on the verge of disaster. it controls about 10% of the world's territory and about a fifth of the world's people. and yet it is a country that has not yet industrialized and where the population growth is extreme and rapid. by the 1860s or the 1840s, excuse me, china reaches somewhere along the lines of 450 million people and that is a lot of mouths to feed. there are famines. there are rebellions. there are all kinds of science corruption. seeing this of course the western powers never missed an opportunity.

they think to themselves here is an easy target and they begin playing a game called carving the chinese melon which means the ambassadors or flotillas forcing china into -- in china understands unless it does something really fast and really drastic, its future is very bleak. and the decision they come to is to send a group of young chinese boys to be educated in america. in this task, they had just the right man. his name was young -- yung wing. he grew up in south china educated in a seminary and, western seminary in macau, and in 1850 the reverend who was his teacher was recalled back to the united states and yung wing decided to go with it and arrived here and went to yale university and became the

first-ever chinese man to graduate from an american university. and here he is graduating in 1854 going back to china, brimming with the audacity of hope. he is thinking to himself, this is an opportunity to remake the country. i had this amazing education at yale. all i have to do is make sure more and more boys such as myself at the opportunity to have the same experience. but china is a very different place. he finds a small house and his native village and across the street from that house very odd things are happening. i told you before china had 450 million people around that time but i didn't say that they were governed by a bureaucracy of slightly over 40,000 clerks. you think our system of government is broken. and it is a small number to govern a large amount of people. corruption was absolute are very prevalent in each local governor

had tremendous powers. the governor controlling the region where yung wing lived had a system. he would accuse you of that or some other petty crime and continue immediately to death. if you had the money to pay to prove yourself innocent, very well. if not, you are executed. and across the street from yung wing's house where the execution grounds and across the street from his house the bodies were piling high. and yung wing looks at this and he shudders. he says to himself something very radical needs to happen. he leaves his village and goes to shanghai. he works very hard and becomes a very wealthy merchant and by the time the people in the forbidden city, the mandarins, are ready to move, they understand that this guy, the first-ever chinese man educated in america, he is their man. they come to him and they say okay look, we don't want anything from the americans except for their technology.

all they want is their science. that's all you have to make sure the boys learn. yung wing of course knows things are little bit more complicated so he puts together the mission. he selects 120 boys, the youngest of which is seven and the oldest i believe 13 and a half. they all board together in 1872 on the spirit of the king ship. off they are to san francisco. now in san francisco there were of course a lot of chinese people at the time. these are the hard-working men who had built the transcontinental railroad. but the boys when they arrived, they don't care about their compatriots. they see wonders of the like which they have never seen before. they see elevators and tram cars and most exciting excitingly cometh ac trains, which they called fire engines. they are extremely happy about this and ecstatic when they take

a train ride on the transcontinental railroad across the united states to new england to their new homes. on the way by the way, they were reportedly rob by remnants of jesse james gang. they were attacked we band of indians. they have these kind of quintessential dime store novel adventures. but nothing prepares them for the real adventure they are about to have which is the adventure they have when they begin their lives and their adopting families in new england. that when they arrive, arrived, they understand very quickly that life is going to be very strange here. they land, they disembark. they have these beautiful braided cues that they had to wear a science of loyalty to the emperor and long flowing silk gowns as is customary and of course all the american kids called them chinese girls, which makes them very very upset. now in china, when they left home and said goodbye to their fathers and mothers for a 15 year journey, they made sort of

the most emotional gesture that it confucian gesture would allow which is a theory of deep bows and of course when they reach here, their adoptive mothers grab them and hug them and kiss them, which mortify's them to and. in the culture seems very strange. this doesn't last long. within a few months, definitely within the year, these kids are thriving. they pick up horseback riding. they pick up rivalry. they start their own baseball team, which they wonderfully called the orientals and they were quite good. and even change their names. he became by james johnny and his best friend becomes breezy jack. we have cold fish charlie, ajax and a bunch of quintessentially american schoolboy nicknames. and the boys are doing very well

here. they are striving young men and in a surviving and nation. in 1876, four years after they arrive, they are invited to be sort of guest of honor at the first centennial celebration which is a huge international expo in philadelphia. there they made alexander graham bell and his brand-new invention, the telephone, and taste a lovely condiment develop by one john heinz called of course catch a. and they made president ulysses s. grant. they meet mark twain and they have a hell of a time. at that time unfortunately is not to last for long. a host of factors are in place to make sure that the boy's boys adventure is cut short. in america, in the west, anti-cheney's sentiment is on the rise. the railroad is completed. there is no more work. there is rampant unemployment and of course the chinese are

the first to kind of feel these burdens. in 1882, the chinese exclusion act is passed kind of signifying this track and in china the mandarins of the forbidden city are growing increasingly suspicious of america. by 1881 they say the party is over. it is time to recall these boys back to china. mark twain writes letters on their behalf. mark twain writes to today york and convinces former president at that point, he leases s. grant to write a letter on their behalf. nothing helps. in 1881 they get back on the ship and they sailed to shanghai. now they are not altogether sad. it is true the left behind friends. most of them didn't even get to graduate from college but they kept telling themselves, you know what? this is not the end of the world because before he left all these years ago when we were young children, we were promised that upon our return we would be the

new mandarins of china. we would be kind of the new lords of the land. and they stand there on on the deck imagining the welcoming crowds who would greet them at the port in shanghai. they are greeted of course by policeman. arrested, they are accused of being spies. no, no they say, we are scholars and imagine how strange it must have seemed to the local police, scholars for them were sedentary, surly men who were long flowing robes and spoke perfect lyrical chinese. these boys could hardly speak any chinese at all. they spoke somewhere at language and they were dressed not in the long flowing robes but in western made suits. it took about a week to a week and have to clear this misunderstanding and they were released from prison. but the troubles were far from over. instead of getting these jobs that they were promised, they were sent to very lowly jobs,

cleaning decks on navy ships in and things of that nature. for 10 years, they had to work very hard to prove their -- to climb up the mandarin ladder and climb up they did. their self-confidence and the result that they learned from the baseball fields and the shooting grounds of yale and m.i.t. in columbia colombia and other universities proved themselves very worthy and they became leaders in pretty much all the fields of modern china's growth and industrialization. now their pass wasn't always easy. one young man for example who had learned mining at yale university came to a small village in the south of china and started to do his job which was to dig in mind and then was sort of assaulted by the local residents, who said you know, this is a very bad feng shui. you are upsetting the spirits of the ancestors. he said no one at yale said anything about the spirits of the ancestors and at first he

sorter brush them off but then he understood the concerns were very serious so we had to do two things. the first is invent machinery to mine at night which is actually very ingenious for the times still. the second is to learn how to sorter for reagan styled his desire for progress and work with the local traditions of the villages and towns he worked in. and all the boys by now young men in this mission had to do the same. the times they lived through reported in the third part of this book were absolutely fascinating times. china through the boxer rebellion through all kinds of wars with him on other people of japan and france and other nations was a nation deeply, deeply changing, and by 1912, it was ready for the biggest change of all. the millennia of imperial rule was coming to an and in the

first-ever chinese republic was being borne. when that republic was born, these young men became modern china's founding fathers. the prime minister of that republic was it red with. his foreign minister was a graduate. the man who figured out how to build railroads on a large scale across china was a graduate. the father of the commander of the chinese navy was a graduate and the founder of zhang wang university was also a graduate. and here were all these young men walking around the forbidden city talking to each other in english saying things like that is all right oh boy, it will be okay. this was the highlight of their lives. they were expecting that sooner or later china would survive. and they were heart broken. china soon fell into a series of warlordism and after that

japanese invasions and after that civil war. after that, communism. as the successful men turned old and frail, they watched us everything they had worked to achieve was crumbling. so here we are many many decades later, walking around china, reading about these boys, reading their writing in the question we asked ourselves when we wrote this book is, is there's a happy or a sad story? did the fortunate sons have a happy ending or a tragic one? and the more we thought about it, the more we realize that although they died 70 or 80 years ago, the story of the fortunate sons is not yet over. the lesson that they teach us, the challenges that they had to overcome are the challenges that

still today we have to overcome. these are the challenges of america and china, having to learn how to speak to one another, not in the language of competition and conquest and mistrust but of cooperation and collaboration, a lesson by the way judging from president hu's visited the white house is increasingly well done. these are the lessons of chinese and americans understanding that china will never become america norwood america become china. but instead each culture has to represent, has to respect each other's cultures, each others' beliefs, each other's traditions. and work together to make sure that their story indeed has a happy ending. and in this i hope truly happy note i would love to turn this into a conversation. [applause] thank you very much. [applause]

please. yes, maam. >> do you speak chinese and read chinese? where the journals in english or chinese? >> well, you know that they tell you a funny little story. when we started working on this book, we learned that there were journals and here we are, sitting in a coffee shop in new york city and i say to matt, you know just our luck here we are stumbling on this great story and these kids left behind all of these journals and all these journals are probably buried in some basement in shanghai and they are probably all in chinese and we will never be able to figure them out or find them. we start doing what people do nowadays which is of course googling for thing like crazy and discover the connecticut historical society has some sort of exhibition on this very subject a few years back, so i called the library in connecticut and by that point

i'm convinced that -- and i introduce myself as a writer and i say do have a contact person in shanghai? she says what is in shanghai? i say well, the direst of course. she said i'm looking for the diaries right now. they are an hour and a half away. you can come in every want to look at them. of course we have in the car and we raced over there. the diaries are in english. there snitched in conflict here because i don't speak chinese. we had a translator who worked with us and by the way an excellent translator. we spent a lot of time in china but as it happened these young boys for a very large period of time they didn't speak any chinese either. it was difficult for them. it took them a good five years to kind of really became the language and when they spoke to each other which was frequent because they were like a click, it was all in english. so we sort of made out okay. yes, maam.

>> my name is megan and i'm a chinese translator and also a writer. i was renting in your research, why did the chinese chinese students assimilate and thrive as easily as they did? thank you trico. >> well, that is an excellent question and you know one that really kept us occupied for much of the time. one is because they are boys. they were very young when they came here and they never really had a chance to sort of grow in the chinese system where most of them attended anything beyond the very rudimentary level of chinese education so this culture was really everything they knew. the second explanation which is a little sort of more metaphysical that i may have is that american culture was really wonderful to them. in china those of them who had gone to school were trained -- there is a famous 11th century poem by the emperor who said a young boy who wants to be

someone turns away from the window, sits down and reads, and here they come to america where a young boy who wants to be someone gets on the baseball field and plays ball, gets on a horse and rides, takes a gun and shoots, goes dancing with girls, is allowed to look his elders in the eyes. this is a revelation for them. they were extremely extremely extremely happy with it and the third thing i would say if they came here at a time when the country was really really really thriving. the transcontinental railroad, they could see things like cyrus mccormick's automated reaper and the plow. there was kind of the synergy that i think they felt acutely that integrated them and made them want to learn and to excel. we had the good fortune of getting all their school transcripts. within two years these kids were completely --.

>> how were they chosen? how were the children chosen to come here? >> how were they chosen? initially, yung wing who put the mission together thought that his was the author of a lifetime, a 15 year all expenses paid tour to the united states. he certainly and that wasn't the case. there was extreme anti-western prejudice in china, mostly because all the westerners in chinese head than conquerors and abusers. and so you know people distributed stories that americans and christians worshiped god so evil that they had to be killed and eaten because they were so wicked. so when yung wing came about and offered this deal to the families, to the prominent families of china most of them said no thank you. we will pass on this. in addition to bad it is a very hard deal for a chinese boy to accept because confucianism is so much about respect for elders and these family traditions and

to tell young boy look you are going to leave behind your parents for 15 years. that is hard for anyone but especially hard in the confucian culture. yung wing sort of went back to his young village. many of the boys chosen where his were his family members or sons of friends and sort of put together -- he had hoped really to choose the best of the best. he kind the kind of almost selected at random. the empire had some rules. for example if you were chosen and were ungracefully named, they changed her name so it would sound better to the american ear, but at the end they got a very good group of people. yes, sir. >> i really love the book. and upon reading it i thought i wonder if there is a statue of yung wing because he was just so amazing in shanghai when he slapped the scottish person. the story she told were just so amazing, and i was wondering --

there were a couple of boys who decided not to go back to china and they converted to christianity in state in america. did you have a chance to interview their descendents and are they still familiar with their great great grandfathers? >> let me say one thing first. there is a statue comity yung wing. as it happens it is right here in the city. there is a yung wing school in chinatown that has a small memorial to yung wing. however in china especially in southern china the little village that he grew up in what sort of raised and made way to the town, a tiny town of 8 million people. there are many many statues and again schools named after him as well as many other graduates of this mission. in china this is somewhat of a well-known story and a very optimistic one of how you can really work together and bridge the cultural gap. as for the people who stayed

behind, there were a couple of these boys who thought this is just too good to pass on and a couple of them hopped the train just before they were headed out to san francisco to sail back to shanghai converted to christianity and never went back their fates are not happy. they learned that when they actually became american citizens as opposed to members of of the international exchange goodwill delegation, racism and xenophobia really hit them hard and there and were not well met. .com as for your other question, about the students, the generations, the next generation, we have spoken to several of these young men's descendents and it is amazing to learn how many of them live either here or in canada and how many of them, even those who live in china, followed in the footsteps of their fathers and

attended yale, columbia, m.i.t. and princeton. it may just happy to learn this and they were very generous. they opened up archives and some of the photos in the book, that was sort of a heartfelt discovery for us. yes, maam. [inaudible] their children and their children's children mated and when to yell and m.i.t. and harvard. >> once you came here had the misfortune -- i repeat the question. the question, the ones who came had a hard time with their children went to yale and harvard. the ones you came who came here unfortunately died very young. one died as a child a couple months after he decided to stay. he was adopted by this beautiful family in connecticut who had lost a son in the civil war and took this young man as their

gift from god. he died of the flu i believe a few months after he hopped a train. another one was murdered in new york city. really really grisly fates. those he came back, many of them sent their children to be educated in america and even if these children came back to china a lot of the third and fourth generations lived here until this day. any other questions? >> hi. my great grandfather great-grandfather is in your book. >> oh my. >> i don't speak chinese. my last name is chang. but you have it spelled two ways i always knew him as great grandpa type that you have cowshed ig.

>> yeah. this is amazing. >> but it is spelled, it is spelled differently in the index. >> well, there is a note on translation somewhere in here. we had a tremendously difficult time. first of all i would like to talk to you after the meeting and hear a lot more about this mark of old man who is really prominently featured in the book we had a very difficult time with the transliterations because every name we came across was spelled often two or three different ways according to the different names. mostly we followed the advice of our translator and to the name or tick the spelling that would have been most well-known in public records and documents in this country or in china, and so i think we went with chi. but stick around. i would love to hear more. >> i am also here on a mission. my father is in new jersey and he read the book and he thinks it is fantastic and he is

wondering if they're going to be a film adaptation? [laughter] >> tell your father i am extremely hopeful and i'm so thrilled that he liked the book. this is making me blush. this is fantastic. thank you. wow. i believe there was one more question. maam? >> i was wondering how well the story is known in china? are they still talking about it, and another question is, some of the boys who went over to the u.s., to america, were very young. they were as young as six or seven years old. how did they survive this whole adaptation to america? >> well, i will answer the first question briefly. they are very well-known in

china. first of all because many of them -- i would say out of the 120 a good 40 or 45 work immensely impressive man. again the prime minister, the engineer, the diplomat. one of them was the man who convinced written to sort of see tibet. bury our man of many come fishman's. as you are the question, how did they survive this really strenuous journey to america? we are talking about new england in the 19th century, sort of goodwill. ten tradition. you were sitting around the dinner table. you want to eat, you better know how you want to call what you want to read in english. if you don't know ray pettitte is an meet and meet you ain't getting them. that is an education that they learned english very fast. >> but they come back to china, they were still quite young. they were like 20 years, 23 years old and could they make a difference in china?

>> by the time they got to china they were very young. they were sent again to have all these menial tasks. it takes them a good 10 years i would say to really come into their own as men. to what they did, they really did make a difference because they really represented in whatever realm of life in the country they were, yet mining, engineering, telecommunications, politics, navy, army. they really brought with them a fresh spirit and a kind of like self-confident attitude that made it great great change which by the way is the same spirit that i see everywhere today in modern china. the same spirit they are trying to capture, with a lot of respect for the tradition, doing things the runway but understanding that herein lies progress. >> well some of it is analogous to the european migration to america around the first of the century when all of eastern

europe decides they wouldn't stay there anymore and they would come to this country. and they also -- the same that the chinese have. the children have to be educated and it is only through education that you get somewhere. >> absolutely. >> so i'm not -- i am not surprised at all because this has always been the lifeblood of america, the immigrants who came and to whom it was very important to get someplace. >> and now you know. now the lifeblood of china too. way of the good fortune of being affiliated with new york university who nowadays are completing a joint educational prop -- programmer shanghai. a couple of months ago we had a lovely delegation of people here and had a tremendous cultural exchange and this i truly

believe in unlikely for me, sort of optimism. i really believe this is the future. i want to thank you very much for coming. it has been a pleasure. thank you. [applause] >> we would like to hear from you. tweet us your feedback. twitter.com/book tv. >> the president obama issued a proclamation that this is read across america today. [applause] alright, president obama. there we go. and so we are grateful that he did that and we are especially grateful to mrs. obama and secretary duncan. please welcome our special readers. let's hear it for them. [applause] >> alright you guys. sounds like you are pretty excited, right?

what are you excited about? [laughter] thank you. we are also we are also excited about reading, right? in our house we read all the time. do you know that? the president is a reader. he read so much, he knows facts about everything. do you guys want to be fat people? so you have got to read in order to do that and we are going to start out by reading something. secretary duncan and i wear were big dr. seuss fans. arnie d. want to talk about your reading? >> they both have two children at home who are a little bit older than most of you guys. if we had a nickel for every dr. seuss book we read we would be rich. these are great great looks and the more you guys read for fun at home, turning those tvs off at night and leaving those video games alone and reading notches for homework but for pleasure,

you become lifelong readers and you can do anything you want to do. i will tell you one quick story. my parents were little bit crazy. when i grow up guess how many tvs we had in our house? any guesses? eight? we had zero. i would say to my friends house to watch tv and said my parents read to me and my brother and sister every single night. we didn't always understand that but it in still the love of reading and we are actually thankful for that. the more you guys read for pleasure whatever it might be, stories, mysteries, adventure, comic looks, nonfiction whatever it might be just read for fun. if you do that you will do very well the rest of your lives. are you ready to hear a story? green eggs and ham. had ever heard that one before? i am sam. i am sam. sam i am. that is sam i am, sam i am i do not like that sam i am.

do you like green eggs and ham? >> i do not like them, sam i am. i do not like green eggs and ham. >> would you like them here or there? >> i would not like them here or there. i would not like them anywhere. i do not like green eggs and ham. i do not like them, sam i am. >> would you like them in a house? would you like them with a mouse? >> i do not like them in a house. i do not like them with a mouse. i do not like them here or there. i do not like them anywhere. i do not like green eggs and ham. i do not like them, sam i am. >> would you eat them in a box? would you eat them with a fox? >> not in a box, not with a fox, not in a house, not with a mouse. i would not eat them here were there. i would not eat them anywhere. i would not eat green eggs and

ham. i do not like them, sam i am. >> would you, could you in a car eat them, eat them, here they are. >> i would not in a car. >> you may like them, you will see. >> i would not could not in a tree. not in a car. you let me be. i did not like them in a box. i do not like them with a fox. i do not like them in a house. i do not like them with a mouse. i do not like them here or there. i do not like them anywhere. i do not like green eggs and ham. i do not like them, sam i am. >> a train, a trained come a train, a trained. could you, would you want to train? >> not in a train not in a treat not in a car. sam, let me be. i would not, could not with a fox. i will not eat them with a mouse. i will not eat them in a house. i will not eat them here or there.

i will not eat them anywhere. i just do not like green eggs and ham. >> say in the dark, here in the dark? would you, could you in the dark? >> i would not, could not in the dark. >> would you, could you in the rain? >> i would not in the brain, not in the dark not in a train not in a tree. i do not like them sam you see. not in a house, not in a -- i do not like them sam i am. >> you do not like green eggs and ham? >> i do not like them, sam i am. >> could you would you with a goat? [laughter] >> i would not, could not with a goat. >> would you could you on a boat? >> i could not would not on a boat. i will not with a goat. i will not in the rain, i will

not eat them on a train not in the dark not in a tree not in a part. you let me be. i do not like them in a box. i do not like them with a fox. i do not like them with a mouse. i will not eat them here were there. i did not like them anywhere. i do not like green eggs and ham. [laughter] i do not like them sam i am. >> you cannot like them so you say? [laughter] >> i tried to tell you that. >> try them. try them. try them and you maymade, i say. >> oh sam, if you will let me be, i will try them and you will see. >> are you trying them? >> i like green eggs and ham.

i do, i like them sam i am and i would eat them in a boat and i with it eat them with a goat. and i will eat him in the rain. and in the dark and on a boat and in a car and it may tree. they are so good, so good you see. so i will eat them in a box and i will eat them with a fox and i will eat them in a house and i will eat them with a mouse and i will eat them here and there, and i will eat them anywhere. i do so like green eggs and ham. thank you, thank you sam i am. >> give her a round of applause. [applause] oh my. i love green eggs and ham. now i have some other special guests for you. who do you think that might be?

president obama is not here but there is someone even taller than president obama. the cat in the hat. the cat in the hat. is he here? where is that cat in the hat? where? tell him to come out. , out, cat in the hat. oh my. and thing one and thing two. oh my. wow. look at that tail. all right. now, with the cat in the hat and thing one and thing two, all of us together and mrs. obama and secretary duncan and dr.

dr. billington we want to do a reader's pledge with you. are you ready? you have to raise your right hand. your other right hand. [laughter] >> raise them high. >> when you hear me say something i want you to repeat it after me. nice and loud. are you ready? are you ready? i promise to read. >> i promise to read. >> each day and each night. >> each day and each night. >> i know it is the key. >> i know it's the key. >> to growing up right. >> keep growing up right. >> i will read to myself. i will read to a crowd. it makes no difference if silent or loud. i will read at my desk. at home and at school. on my beanbag or bed.

by the fire or the pool. each book that i read, put smarts in my head. because brains grow more thoughts the more they are fed. so i take this oath. to make reading my way. a feeding my brain what it needs every day. alright, everybody clapped their hands. [applause] journalist lawyer and trade union leader steve hurley will be our guests on line with booktv.org on march 8 at 6:30 p.m. eastern.