there were lots of people around the country who were by the transcript that day in many people paying their share of the dollar a page from the per page copy would draw down. it was a wonderful service why it lasted. >> you have to order daily in advance. it doesn't happen not dramatically. >> for a childlike as sally, they did it automatically. it was tremendously helpful. there were several other trials that way, too. ..

which is about four times as much as long as most news stories. he also said the judge's tweets on the bench during the trial. [laughter] >> [inaudible] in case anybody asked here i will read you four. closing argument in wife killing of abusive husband. first time i've seen this a judge stock's closing arguments and since the jury out of the room because comments by prosecutor. three minutes later judge david kaufman isn't happy with the justin edwards right now said he made improper arguments to the jury. next, lawyers are arguing with the prosecutor can say about the dna evidence without causing the jury to speculate.

he says by the way that he finds his tweets, and maybe find this experience as well, howard -- all he does is get home at the end of the day and strings them together and has the story. whereas i was wondering how do you take notes when you are tweeting all the time it may be your tweets or your notes. >> [inaudible] in the federal system and district court electronic sound recording were is preferred for budgetary reasons over and the judges don't have anything much to say about this but that's the system. but we can buy that will take and listen to what sentence was or the witness' testimony was i'm not going to interpret it because it's not checked by the court, but it's -- why isn't that a common enough accessible enough reasonably priced enough

system compared to the transcript? >> why wouldn't the tapes or electronic forms of the testimony suffice it to the transcript? >> i would love if i could get those tapes but i don't know of any mechanism for me to buy the tape because what i do is i have to call the reporting service and the what they saw was the transcript. i don't think they want to give me the tape. >> some courts have transcript systems, stenographers and that's what you're talking about. other courts have electronic sound recording systems and the access is different on each, because the esr tapes, the voice tapes are brought from the clerk's office. >> i would love that. that's good to know. thank you.

>> yes, in the back. they were in the system and you would click on it and would be like another entry, and pete, i appreciate your criticisms of the pacer system however i think it's a very good system and if you know how to use it you can get access to virtually everything that exists >> there's a comment about something other courts in eastern pennsylvania doing some taping, but also comment in defense of the pacer system and it might be knowing how the uses. islamic it seems quite clear to me. [laughter] and i want to be clear when i started covering the courts we

had to beg them to fax us stuff, so they were never happy to hear us calling and he would sit there as the deadline went by, on your waiting for the fax machine to fire up so you could read the filing and i'm certainly not sorry to see those days ago. i mean tremendous consumer. it's wonderful. all i am saying is that it varies in how fast things are posted. there are still things for example and some cases you can't see everything. some cases you can only see the court orders. you can't see the filing by the parties. you see the doggett entry into the little blue dots if you click on that it gives you three lines about what it says but you can't read the entire document. you can only read the court's orders so those are still things to be worked out. but piecer is a wonderful thing and i just wish it were even

more wonderful is all i'm saying. [laughter] >> let me try to wrap this up with one more question, and i would certainly like each of our panelists to comment on this and i'm going to start with you. circling that around to where i started the landscape that's changing so rapidly what we did yesterday may not apply to mauro. in anticipation what is the next step what should the courts be looking at and preparing for that on the horizon and covering? >> i just think it's going to be more people wanting to do more in a faster way, wanting more access, and yet, that will be a challenge for the court, but i guess the point i want to leave with as well is i think for them

somebody who is blogging, listen to what howard said a moment ago. what was his concern? access. he wants to be in the courtroom blogging sent to the kids table where all he can see is the tv screen. so it still comes down to access to be able to be in the courtroom to get your hands on the documents, and so i think the pressure is on the courts to accommodate more people certainly for high-profile and be more responsive to being able to get documents exhibits and those sorts of things out more quickly. >> from the administrative point of view. >> i think they like being at the kids table because they can come and go, have a soda and a sandwich and they can also talk with the other people in the room and if they have questions about what happened other reporters are sharing information and getting greater accuracy. cameras and the courts are

coming. i think the judicial conference pilot made a mistake in the way it set up now is the courts have to provide the camera and then the courts release the video and i don't think that is the best way to go. what should have happened is there should have been a pool and the media and the media should have had the camera and the media should have been responsible for releasing it because we don't have the bandwidth to have this stuff. we don't have the staff to be doing this sort of thing. to those who say the media will take the advantage, the first time they pan over to the jury that's the last time the cameras in the courtroom and they know that. the media knows if they make a mistake they are going to lose their credential and just a lot, and i am hoping of the pilot ever gets going that one of the things we will learn is the

media should be the ones with the camera and the one to release the video. >> this is such a terrific opportunity i think to have somebody from the court administration major media, to federal judges to talk about these things come and you think of how far we've come in the benefit of collaborating in hearing each other on these subjects, but the challenge and think to elude to what i said earlier in response to one of the questions is to look at these best practices because this is quickly evolving area of the law. i agree with betsy cameras are coming sooner rather than later but we have other challenges as well, and something we have a totally new paradigm and changing paradigm as it relates to the media and the intersection of the media and the courts, and we need to

frankly take the judges to school in many cases and court administration to school as well because the old way doesn't work. whether for the old way was, the sort of press be damned and let them figure it out, that can't work in my opinion any more and you have a new generation of judges who are very technically savvy and get this intuitively in a way that frankly many of us have to end up self teaching, and so i think it's exciting to exchange ideas and see where we are and learn not just from the good things we do but from the mistakes we've made in accommodating the media in these cases as well. >> judge walker we're going to give you the last word. >> we've talked about how to get news or the word out in high-profile cases. i want to suggest there's

another side to the claim. not everything about every case, high profile or not, could be or needs to be held in the open and you must remember in many of these high-profile cases we have juries. people who were brought in to exercise tremendously important public conscience. they are unaccustomed to what we are accustomed to in the legal community or the media were court administration's and the need to be provided some assurance that the service is going to be respected that they will not suffer any adverse consequences. so we need some cooperation from the diversified, from the media in dealing with the jurors and providing them an appropriate environment so that when they are in the courtroom or coming to or from the courtroom, they can do their job free of

interference and of the kind of pressure in any kind of how we'll do the kaput proceedings -- profile proceedings. so it needs to go both ways and i would hope and i am sure that we will get the same kind of cooperation from the media and those interested in the access that we are going to try to provide on our end. >> we will give you tennant creek but before that we need to think the panel. [applause]

the international women's media foundation released a report on gender equality in the news media. the report which looked at broadcast and print companies in 60 countries found that about one-third of third the to journalism positions are held by women and most media management jobs are held by men. this is an hour. [applause] >> thank you very much, judy for that very kind introduction. welcome you to washington. i wish of the weather was better but you have come at a perfect time. it is very exciting for me to be

here. i am fairly new. i joined just a year ago and it's been a wonderful experience for me to be on the board of such an exciting and dynamic organization. i'm going to give a quick exit of summary of the findings of the report and then on and -- i have a wonderful panel on companies doing great things. the report is not slim, but i am going to make a point of sending this report to my mother who was a journalist herself when i was a riot in saudi arabia and ministers in saudi arabia when we were living in jeddah and they would say to her she's the first woman who had ever been in the room, not even have the cleaners had been women, so she was a pioneer herself and i know she will be excited how much progress we've made. thank you. [applause] with a global study on the status of women in the news media is the first international study that provides a complete baseline, and it is so comprehensive a think that is what is so useful about it of the women's position in the news

media. we used the six methodologies and included news companies from all different regions of the world which really is a global report. the study was conducted in more than 40 different languages coming and i am sure you can all realize being from so many countries ourselves just how many languages we are dealing with and how many countries we are dealing with. the local researchers conducted face-to-face interviews and a different occasions and covered 522 companies and 59 different countries. 28% of those companies were radio broadcasters. 24% television and 48% were newspapers. the data is organized in severin different regions of the world. there's the middle east and north africa come sub-saharan africa, the americas, asia, eastern europe, nordic europe and western europe. here is what we sought to learn

as we were conducting different interviews. we want the extent to which the women have entered the media work force. we want to know what the women's status is in the companies they work, not just whether they are working their but with their actual positions are and the amount of power and control they have. what women's compensation is compared to their male counterparts and this is one of the key findings of the report and one that is worth all of you reading. we want to know the terms under which all of the women in the news media organizations are employed and we wanted to know the extent to which companies have adopted pro ecology policies, specifically gone out there to try to address gender imbalances. the up some of the report is that we have a long way to go. we've come further than my mother's era of 1970 but we'd do still have a long way to go. the study found 73% of the top

management jobs in the countries covered by the report or occupied by men, 73%. and as we know, having women at the top changes the situation for the women further down the pipeline. so that is one of the key areas i think that we all felt needed to be changed. we also felt men are paid more than women. the glass ceiling is real and some areas of the world are much better than others. some of that is surprising. there were areas of the world you might expect, some of the nordic countries are doing particularly well. there are other areas of the world definitely falling behind on gender issues. the findings from the global study on the status of women underscore of the importance of the work that we are doing. but i am a glass half full person and it's not all bad news. the study also found that there are many companies with really good track records on gender equality and they are here with us today to share their stories

and i hope to give you practical takeaways. what i would like to get out of the panel this information all of you can take back to your companies about things you could be doing better, easier, things that do work in terms of gender equality. so i'm going to try to make it as practical a panel as possible and if i could call my panelists at this stage the would be wonderful. [applause] >> it's my pleasure to introduce the principal investigator and author of the global research report dr. carolyn. she's a member of the graduate faculty and howard university school of communications. [applause] also with me on the stage, a representative to those

exemplary media organizations. they are from left to right, canada cbc general manager and editor-in-chief, jennifer mcguire. the managing editor ines pohl. ugonda's new vision editor-in-chief, barbara kaija. [applause] sylvia miro quesda from editorial el commercio. the amendment to become managing editor and director and i'm going to join you and apologize for any of the names i mean gold. i'd think that we've tested my linguistic ability this morning. carolyn, to start with you and go through the main findings of the report for the audience first of all what was the

biggest challenge you came across because you were working in so many different countries and so many different languages, and i imagine jogging evin just to illicit real information and get facts of the company's >> that is one of the major things is getting into the company's. in some countries we had very little trouble. in other countries, we had a great deal of trouble getting access and was surprising which of those countries we have the greatest amount of trouble. they were in most cases i think in fact in all cases in the most developed countries. we have the greatest difficulty gaining access to interviews. i think one of the huge challenges as you can probably imagine is organizing the project we wanted to cover all areas of the world but how are we going to do that? how were we going to manage it and set it up?

and once we made some decisions about the decentralizing it in terms of organization, then we had the challenge of how do you work across -- how do you gather data in any kind of uniform way when companies find their jobs so differently? when journalism is organized a different from country to country, and i think it was the credit of our international advisory board that we worked quite a few weeks on just protecting a questionnaire that we thought would work in so many different countries. >> what surprised you most? there's a lot of data and a lot of information. when you look back at the report, there are two or three things to really stick in your mind? >> one of them you mentioned at the podium, and that is the ways in which some of the regions just simply span out above others in a uniform way. i think we have to look at the

eastern european region. we have eight countries in eastern europe, the former soviet bloc and uniformly from country to country the women were almost at parity or some cases beyond parody with the men in their companies and i think we had to look at some of the reasons for that that had to do with the way that for all of us the problems in terms of authoritarian governments and repression and so forth the soviet system moved educated women into the work force and having been institutionalized in that way the was a labour force there already trained able to assume journalism jobs as journalism itself changed. >> as it did refer other companies and other parts of the world are those models than the are replicable given the come out extraordinary circumstances? >> i think the lessons might be replicable. for instance, another sort of

major thing that stood out is the relationship between the national laws and the status of the women in journalism and even in some countries where that belong to the region where there was not particularly high status of women in the news agencies some individual countries, our colleague here from ugonda and i were just talking about this earlier, ugonda has a high status of women in general for the national laws trading fehr fifth in terms of the women in office because of the laws and constitution. and so one of the ways for the women and journalists to be talking about this is what happens at the sort of national level. to the women under the constitution's command we see this also in the e.u. with the nation's mandated to advance gender equality and almost all of those countries women had high your status of the journalism job.

>> let's talk about one of the areas of the world looking at the report falling behind, and i was asia. there are examples an age of countries ahead but asia did seem to be a sort of a particularly complicated area. >> it is, and in some respects the nations are different from each other and so it's one of the areas of the world that's the hardest of the generalities, but something we haven't talked much about this culture and the ways in which culture enter into the kind of job growth women might assume, the ways even educated women might be able to advance in certain parts and occupations and the other thing is journalism has always been the first occupation that educated women in the country's have moved into so i think one of the things i learned is this is a fairly new occupation for a lot of the women.

>> we have five companies that seem to be doing the right thing in promoting women and their organizations. are there many others around the world? >> yes, there are, and one of the things we should remember in the days ahead as we talk about the global report is 522 companies cannot represent all of thousands of companies out there and so in each individual country i think it will be really important to spotlight and emphasize the companies that are the models and to take lessons from them. >> we will continue this discussion and please feel free to chip in as well. i wanted to start with this panel by asking all of you it seems obvious the need to promote women and journalism, but why? why are we here? why is it important to the news media to have the women not just

journalists in the senior positions? >> journalism is about choices and traces are by the people who make them day today. so in the newsroom you're not representative of the people you're trying to serve than that is a filter and i think with gender equity or this diversity is important to get people in the newsroom driving a different perspective in terms of the news of the day and that's the basic reason that it's not, it's a good business. it's our job as the media and the broader population that if we don't have those people at tables fuelling the the discussion and helping us make those choices then we are not connecting to the people we are serving. >> if we move beyond the times when we promote women because the good diverse thing to do to the realization to make business

sense and political sense for the society. >> i think she's right about choices, it's about one the topics which we cover but it's also about how we look at topics, which questions we asked, who is asking the question, but then i think it's also about how to run the news organization when we come to the managing level and i totally believe it's really much needed and that there is a mixture of gender and mixture of diversity where people come from, so i think the changes are the way to deal with each other and this then also approach is how we do journalism. >> and barbara? >> the case of the evil king world is the only sensible thing to do because how else shall we develop the society

>> we know the levels will -- we developing nation so it is the only sensible thing to do to hear what the women have to say and help them get their voices reflected and their needs reflected and to get -- use it to the agenda for them what. >> you come from a country that is still fairly conservative when it comes to issues of gender equality. >> [inaudible] with -- we didn't have the opportunity to vote before the -- >> just 40 years ago. >> 40 years ago, so we are doing quite well and i would like to take some words [inaudible]

and this new way to connect with people, the women to have and advantage compared to men because nowadays, to connect people we need to have certain attributes which are not really manageable and do a lot of things will was since the beginning of humanity, of menlo to fishing, hunting and on the

contrary to [inaudible] he told me if you go back and look around they were at home they farming, cook, raise their children, so what are we having now? i think that a war now is a very good opportunity in a way to challenge and women to be more educated, to encourage them to jump into the story because we have a lot to share with people, our community, and this is a very good moment for the women in the media. >> why is it important that it's going to have women in senior

positions and in the journalists links? >> it's important because it changes the newsweekly and makes it easier for the women were when would you have a leader but i think we are closer now with a better agenda balance with everyday consumer news and the section very much so -- >> are half of the readers women? >> 49% actually, yes. >> so having journalists in the ranks -- having women as journalists reflects your reader's concerns as well? >> we think so, absolutely. ischemic you all agree that it's important. what have your company's done specifically? jennifer let's start with you, to make sure we get there. >> at cbc we have the hiring equity practices so all things

being equal, the equity piece gets played in terms of preferences but i think ford cbc the strategy is to be delivered and i will tell you a little story. cared and levine was the prt winning documentary winner and a radio producer of cbc and in the early 90's, some of you might have heard on npr she was listening to the show and she thought sounded to officials and male so she started marching on the storyboard how many stories were featured in female voices and male valises and then begin the discussion with the producers about look let's try to change this and get other voices on the air. then it's progressed to let's say we won't have official representative to be female voices.

so then the goal was to try to get it to happen, to work harder to get the women on the air so at a certain point in the day she would have another story meeting as the board was looking too male and they would do it again so all of this is to say it wouldn't just happen and i can speak from experience on the cbc diversity policies, too good intentions are not enough and if you ask, pick a show, if you ask if the value equity or diversity or the reflection they would say yes. if you measure by content analysis to see if it happened, many cases that's not the case. so i think it has to be delivered. i think you have to declare what is you are trying to achieving your audience and then measure it and hold people accountable, and everybody hates, but it's not because in journalism every day we heard the lady from belarus, why not belarus and lydia many were not in bahrain

and they make choices every day so they have important value to acquire it and commit to it and have it accountable. >> is this the experience in ugonda that you've made specific choices to make sure the women are promoted? is that the genesis experience of what you have done or would you do anything different to promote gender equality? >> the example comes from the constitution. i think the media and ugonda is the reflection of what our society is, what our society is when the law is concerned because 1990, the constitution in ugonda, it was a requirement that 30% of the position goes from local government up to the parliament should be women, the people in the local government at least for everyone should

have 40% women representatives. >> there was enough in your own news organization. >> i think that happened because we as the media had to report on the agenda equity and we were playing the policeman had to be that we had to reflect that because when you keep reporting on something it happens then you do it but also may be another thing is we have leadership, surprisingly man, not women, leadership in the organization that valued the woman so the discussions never whether semidey is a woman and what we could do and because of that when in got promoted and that is how we made it to the top. >> you come from a country that has a very different approach and attitude. how have you managed in your own organization to implement policies that promote women in

the organization? >> what specifically -- >> our newspaper is a newspaper was founded in 1839 so it is almost 132 years. we have tried to be very professional and to have a family code and everything and one of the change in the newspaper is what really matters is having the best people in the newsroom regardless of gender, and to be in the limitation. >> but do you specifically try as jennifer was suggesting to have policies that make sure the

women are represented in the interviews that there are an equal number of women -- >> no, we don't really because we think more about the democracy and i think that we have very good professionals so we have the need to have special policies in the next two years very much good improvement because we have much more women in the committee's than to give the support to the rest of the newspaper so it is working normally. >> what is your experience, what particular things have you implemented? >> our experience is without the since your involvement if gender inequality would be party

speeches but that is so crucial and the way to do it for us it was in 2002 we made a formal agreement between the management and the journalist union that was important because it stated the clear policy we agreed we would have the equality in all levels of the recession and that strict policy of how to get there and i think it's important like jennifer said to measure it because if i had the department this year every year we have a face-to-face conversation in the head of the department and will not measure you only on [inaudible] i will measure you whether you find for the true and pleased will find this year the you'll

find a good female reporters. >> if you measure him and -- there is a judge description that helped us to get the mail applications and then everybody that's working in the organization and has a leader position, if the measure whether they do it or not they would do that much more so. >> that is about investing in the future and representative but it's not about giving people the job not qualify for the job. [inaudible] that is to have women and men and also the middle management level, so we have to have as many women as men in the middle

management positions also and the top and the managing editor and i have one a woman and one male deputy but this is for germany i am the only female managing editor from the newspaper in germany. you have to think we have the chancellor but in the news business is poor especially newspapers, in the television and radio stations and i think my peter is doing so well because of this quote and it's really strict. they have to hire a woman and there isn't any woman like in the newsroom to have to move outside of the news room to find someone. >> and it's how dependent is the policy on having a woman right at the top? of you are women leading your news organizations and i wonder if chris adamle you were replaced by men tomorrow whether your news organizations gender equality but slipped. >> i would say first of all it would be the man.

>> someone said this morning tomorrow we will have one session with only men on the panel which is kind of strange but on the other hand it's strange because they are engaged in the question and things. but i still think yes it is important women and female leaders are visible because this in power is then and encourages young journalists and women to feel able to also step forward and to take the responsibility for the leadership. >> to tell you a story about two very capable political reporters in the capitals probably about what i want tell you the date because then you will know who, but both were young mothers and they wanted to job share out of the capitol.

they agreed to work nights, weekends and insure that it would be a sort of seamless transition in terms of any election campaign. and they were told no you can't do that, you either come to the job in the terms of the job or get out and they both left the organization and the organization was sort of a lesser for it and i think in the structure of how we work and look at the work is still sort of a male hierarchy and health organizations are run and that is the sort of next evolution because we don't want to lose the women who choose to have families. we have to figure out how that works into the representation moving forward. >> picking up on the point now about social services that are government-funded and available to women emerged in the country has an important issue. probably europe as well. where you have government laws

governing the longer terms of the parent feeds, government funded child centers that take care of children until they go to school. the really free of the women to live their career lives. and again, as we are looking at models and principles, i confess that would be something not to forget about. >> that is clearly true in every profession we men are involved in the those are important factors. you fall talked about the policies that you have implemented, and i wonder if you could give me a specific example perhaps you could come up with one. have you had a specific example where somebody has pushed back against gender ecology where you have come up against somebody that said we shouldn't have this woman to win this story or any

problems you encountered in trying to keep women in the news organization and promote women. >> we have problems with lots of things, but what we have a problem with is getting enough female forces actually in the paper. when you read my paper you will find 75% male sources in my paper and we struggled with this for 20 years and we still struggle. >> but the people being interviewed -- questioned in the newspaper tend to be minute. >> one of the reasons is where we're still struggling hardest to make the women go to the night shift to reply myself am an example. i have the night shift making

the paper and that's because my husband is traveling a lot and i have young children at home. i am an excellent that we are struggling hard to meet the women on the night shift and that might women make the paper and pick the pictures and say why do we only have male -- so we are struggling with that so that is the main challenge still. >> we are struggling with the scene problem. there has to be one picture of a woman on our front page and we have big fights talking about in the newsroom. you should hear the women and male colleagues. it's possible and it's not only from -- >> if i look at the front page -- >> i think this is a very simple move that changes because then the front page editor would go

to the section and say i need a story because otherwise they will come and say where is the picture? >> i was disturbed to read in canada after the evens in egypt and the journalist who was raped in egypt the discourse became is it safe for female journalists to go into danger in terms of reporting and we had editorials saying women with children shouldn't be allowed to do this kind of coverage which is ludicrous. we had a camera man in egypt as well and we didn't talk at that as a gender issue but somehow a female journalist being injured covering a dangerous -- i don't want to diminish the danger of it, but we have to sort of

address these things because that isn't the discourse we need. >> let's talk about your experience in peru. have there been times in your newspaper where you tried to implement the gender policies and you've faced reluctance from other people? >> we don't have unions for the newspapers because when we had the government there are no unions and most of the companies and [inaudible] something we have to work on and we don't have any problem in

having the women and at midnight and the same considerations as males in the news room and trained to cover the very difficult stories. one of the journalists 20 years ago [inaudible] so we send women to cover hardest police, and i remember when i got to the newspaper that day and i was coming out and she said what happened? he was in the highlands and there was a [inaudible]

so we need you to talk with the family. some cases the women cover the story is, but -- we have it as a problem in the culture. but mostly we send women to cover the stories in the inside part of the country. some like to years ago, you give me your testimony and she told me this women not from the place was like kindling in explosive bomb in my hands. they suggested me not to pose a

question to the taxi driver. those were things only for the male are was to talk to them in a smooth manner otherwise i was told the same thing may happen and i asked what that could come to you [inaudible] the told me don't talk as if you are from the capitol. you could be raped at any moment. so that's really [inaudible] >> and get you still have women journalists who will go? if you took -- let's take this example of having a woman, the photograph of a woman on the front page of el commercio. if you took that back now and said every night we must have a photo -- would that be something that could work? would it help or not really? >> - that not to have every day.

women would have to work for the stories of their readers and the audience. we have good stories where the women are involved in the story. i don't believe that every day you have to do this, you have to try to look for good stories and have a symbol of good database and oversee the database and say okay which are the sources because i have to talk about the problems. okay but why one email consultants? are there no mining engineers women and jumping into the database. but i don't believe really

everyday you should have a story it's impossible because every day circumstances don't get journalism for people. >> let me bring you back in here. you come from a country where if you fix planned the constitutional wall that promote gender equality. have there been times even despite that where the newspaper you've encountered challengers trying to promote women? >> yes, they're have been a number of times, and one example i can think about is when the new maternity policy was passed. formerly we had only 45 days of maternity so you would go back. now over to three months most of the employers find eight hard. when it's coming to the media house the argument was

[inaudible] because they want to be able to get their jobs back but we did seek an agreement look we should take these three months off and look after the baby's and if a woman once a flexible period after 45 days she can work and work half days and the works because there are women in top management despite that it became hard to the implementation we had to keep fighting the -- >> did you find that when the women wanted to take longer maternity leave that affected the prospect for the kind of stories to cover? óx when they come back they arex guaranteed their jobs back but certainly if two people enter the same time and went for maternity leave at a longer time

to find that your meal colleague has advanced but when you come back and get your job back. >> i wanted to talk about the kind of stories that you have found that you have been able to cover when you wrote. you had agreed to a simple you told me about earlier about the beginning of the jet uprisings and a particular story that you covered and i thought what was interesting about this is that it showed the difference in the way between female and male reporting and that is something you thought was worth promoting in the news organization. >> i think it is referred to a young student writing for us which we put in the print paper because it was very difficult in the beginning to have contact with the correspondence obviously giving it so she was living in the student home that was crowded because it was so centered in cairo and she wrote

about how to taking care of the skin after the tear gas attacks. so you'd think there's a revolution going on, why do we report on that? but it just shows how these things affect normal lives and how women, young women, young students deal with the new situation and i found it so interesting in coming from that it involves the whole discussion and how the women take care of the skin and their kids so just a little thing, jennifer, you said early on, it really matters who reports if it is a woman or a man. so the thing you said earlier about traces. >> that is something that's changed but i feel like for a long time, we thought we should all pretend and say that women

were the same as man and actually now i think there's a recognition that it's okay to say we report things differently. is that true, jennifer? >> i don't know if i would actually delineate entirely about this. but i do think bringing up a personal filter to the story is what happens naturally come and the more people of different perspectives -- i would say the same thing in canada, the multi-cultural society. i would say the same thing about that, you need people who bring that to the table in terms of looking at what is the story and what is interesting about the story and how we cover that story. so yes, i do think that. >> do you have experience, too? >> working with the culture and the company takes longer than you think. so when i started my newspaper 20 years ago a 91 we had the

gender balance, and it wasn't the great place to work for a young person, it really wasn't. ññver went to the practiceñ after, you know -- it does something with people. it's the balance and i think every workplace in the world needs the quality to be a nice place to become and that affects the way to we live our work life and we work together and the news we are finally making and we have been working so much with this mean culture to make a better place to be. and we have done seminars in for a moment working with the women leaders come encouraging each other to take these issues and that's -- and 20 years we have

moved from 30% female balance to 37 almost. we are still not satisfied, but that has done something, and of course now it's -- the victims voice in the case are coming through the story. we had a story called 72 women killed by the man, and it's a female initiative saying we are so tired of the police saying every week on the news that the tragedy happened, it is a family tragedy, the way the police announced this and we said no, it's a murder. 72 women tortured and tell their story. as the greatest project we ever made and of course this is because we see it a little bit different. this isn't a family tragedy,

it's murder. so we wouldn't have this if we hadn't worked 20 years of getting the women up say let's do this. .. and we've listed to the daily

mail. the gmail had trans-or their newspaper by following the bombing. so when it came back to new vision, we decided to do that. do not coin-op female issue? >> the only way you could do that was getting the women in getting their voices, getting their issues heard, getting another word entangling the story for the women. and actually did clear that because it gave gives us the women, but also it gave us the mail readers because they are more interesting to read. >> give an example -- >> an example of an accident is not just mandated accident. we be today from an accident. instead of that human females

feel into the story. >> you wrote -- internecine row coming attack about that the areas where you're still having trouble getting women reporters. one of them was investigative journalism. he mentioned the example of the people who face danger when they traveled the country and one of your reporters was killed. even on a more day-to-day basis, it is sometimes hard for the women to do the kinds of things are merely colleagues don't do teach it ahead and get the sources. >> i remember when i started in the newspaper in 1982 we work in the newsroom. and the rest of them were men. we were together and were known

from each other, but it became one of the first newspaper in which the newspaper is the only late lady in the picture. but now, the reports will have been that many times in one of the newspaper because she's the manager decided to stay for a time. when i started being an investigative reporter, i was told that my colleagues from the other newspapers who want to get that source, you have to have drinks with people or you have

to take the process they had to take the judges. they said well, i'm not going to do that. you know me. so she really changed a lot the way of investigative reporters. she really had good work with the information that she was given an international award the way she had been recovering the forces. >> limited night was something she didn't feel comfortable doing or didn't want to. she managed to get the sources -- >> she changed the way in a very professional way. she really found a way to get to

the sources without using the manner you can say. >> that's quite a remarkable story because the hurdles that they feel in some fields can be overcome. barbara, you talk about the fact that it's hard for women in the field as well, that all you done great things to promote the newspaper come in their areas of journalism where there's not enough women. >> actually, a universe to be -- i don't think i have a situation. ladies and uganda have covered some of them. we covered them to war, the rwanda genocide. at least six of them did.

when it comes to investigations, there's only one lady who does investigations. and i think it's a skilled issue. it's a lack of confidence and i think it's an area we can do better. i don't enka have a solution. >> is it a question of making specific quotas? >> i think it takes more. we demand an analytical investigative. it's more like asking somebody to do something, but they don't have the skills to do it. it's more of a skilled issue. >> back to the point of having competent. we had the same in germany that asked, can you write this editorial? they say sure, what is it about click they say what is it about? you know, i don't know.

and i think the question for it should be how come we encourage women doing jobs they don't feel strong enough, don't feel skilled enough. do they have so much better skills to do investigative journalism in your country clinics i really don't know. it's mainly men who do the big investigative pieces. they are reporting out of office hours, those they come back to family issues. but then also, they have their own model. so they are following their own models. and this is something we should talk about, how we can maybe do special stay friends or through special training programs really young or middle-aged women to john. >> or give them the opportunity. i can promise you there are at least three jobs i had that it was not ready for, but i had

somebody who saw something in me and believed in me and gave them to me and supported me or the transition process. so i think if you have people who are capable, critical thinkers, good writers, instinctive journalist, you can grow them to be your premier investigative journalists for support. i think it's a copout to say that it can't be. >> i am just thinking that in the case of covering the wars, this because there was more models they looked at. we meant we were doing this. i think that what actually happened. >> i think actually it's an issue for journalism education. >> i think at least in the u.s., almost two thirds of the students in journalism schools are females and so i think to some extent of giving them the

training incentive to mentor young journalism students is that they have been there had the idea that maybe they should do that. and i think also going back to barbara's issue about skills or compliments, i think that it takes a particular tenacity to be an investigative reporter. you have to be willing to stick with something to get your foot in the door. i do student. i used to teach investigative repealing as what i taught at a university. my most aggressive student was a female. even on a story assignment for class, she said they found out this guy wasn't going to give her an interview, so she found out what time he came to work and she was there to meet him at 7:00 a.m. when she arrived. and she interviewed him outside the door of his office building because he wouldn't give her an

interview. so i think it takes a certain amount -- it could start much earlier than just in the newsroom. >> i think it's so interesting to say that the man looks in the mirror if he's a senator or president. and a women has to be asked to run for office and we don't naturally look in the mirror and we could do perhaps a better job of both promoting ourselves within our organizations and claiming credit for we do, but also feeling within ourselves. i wonder how important you think it is having a woman at the top of the organization to make the women further down the pipeline feel that that in and of itself is a better role model.gpg0 >> i found it very interesting that diane yesterday referred to your mother as strong ideals,gp0 superstars. and that shows -- i think that shows you need someone who may

be on your side, who believes i0 you. i think this can be much easier for the women journalists. >> the meantime he talked about trying to give confidence to younger reporters who might not see themselves, as barbara said, as the next sports reporter or finance reporter, political reporter. some of those fields i find harder to get into. you talked about a week to getting conference. what would be an example of how you think women in the audience could do that? >> first of all, for many german youth organizations, with very little women in the finance world. so this would be a field to cover these things. i think the coverage is indifferent. >> vb finance would be different. >> i think what one really could do -- one could decide the next job opening i have in this field and look for my younger

colleagues using gauged enough that i sent her to training for special help before she would get the job. i think that is something one could really do to look for the newsroom and talent can really get promoted for special training. >> it never underestimates the power of role model. we heard that yesterday in the room above the question i'm trying to asking questions. we have a correspondent for the name is adrian or so no was a rockstar in journalism schools across the country. and my foot that leads to not impact is profound. >> we have five questions and i want to ask each of you briefly what you briefly what you would tell the audience and other members of the media here that they could take back to their own news organizations that you have learned to improve gender equality. >> two things. leadership can be delivered.

>> very brief.

have. and i'd also say skills. >> very good. >> leadership no doubt, to have time in the organization because many times were in the newsroom, we are not looking for the talent that we have to train. the leadership can have confidence in what they're doing. >> i would say three things. clearly defined goals and a specific policy filing them out. and i will say active enrollment and participation from the top initiative. that doesn't meet chief editor would say where is the women on the front page of this act of involvement from management?

and working with attitudes in the company is so important. you must not forget that. it has taken us 20 years working with us. so don't forget about that. >> them are still not satisfied. >> which you have to find a way to work this out. >> thank you also much. i was a fascinating panel. i hope you have things you cannot take back to your organizations. barbara, sylvia, caroline, thank you for joining me up your. [applause] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> the president of the american university in cairo predict to you today that moammar gadhafi would die as a martyr before giving up power in libya. keith andersen said she is optimistic about political outcomes in egypt and tunisia. she spoke for about an hour and a half at the carnegie endowment for international peace. >> already. thank you all for coming. this is another one of our series of country would've had a name in the region in general, but what is happening in each in

particular. the events in egypt with the referendum and the start of a process stories gradual change in that country. but beyond, we are of course missing what is happening in libya, does have meaning to misha and indeed the way this seems to be moving across the arab world that promises to be quite transformational. i'm very delighted to have with us today someone who is known to all of you then i'm sure andersen was appointed president of the university of cairo in january this year. i was supposed to attend her inoculation, but of course other event stood in the way. but even before dr. andersen went to cairo of course, she has been a specialist on the middle

east for a very, very long time. she served of course is the university's provost from 2008 to 2010, but prior to that she was the dean of international public affairs at columbia for 10 years. she's the author of many books and articles pursuing truth, exercising power, social science and public policy the 21st century. the state and social transformation in tunisia and libya, 1830 to 1980 and editor of transitions to democracy and coeditor of the origins of the nationalists. dr. andersen will talk today about the events not just in egypt, but also in tunisia and libya. as you all know, auc is right on the square, so we're getting very unique to underpants in

that country as well as in the region. please join me in welcoming dr. andersen. [applause] >> thank you very much. it is a delight to be here. this is the first time i've been out of egypt since the beginning of january. and so, it's an interesting opportunity for me to get a different perspective than my own front to rear square on what has been hot name in the region. what i thought i would do was talk a little bit about this sort of larger picture of how we think about the authoritarian legacy is that the regimes they can which these rebellions were made because i think in fact the tendency to see all of this is a piece on the one hand understandable, but also potentially a significant mistake. again about policy approaches in

the various countries in which we see the uprising. so i want to give a brief overview of that kind and then i will entertain questions, including questions about what auc has been doing about wildlife fund the square was like during the protest they are about prospects for change, particularly in egypt. but i do want to sort of set the stage, if you will, in a little more abstract and broader way. i think it's clear that certainly in the early days of the uprising, since the beginning of this calendar year, people tended to see these arab uprising says peace. and it is certainly true that they were largely unexpected, spontaneous protests against aging authoritarian rulers in tunisia and tunisia and in libya and now as we are seeing

increasingly elsewhere as well. and many of us had for a long time wondered how the next generation would take power in these countries. at least in a few places and we seem to have the answer. if through these popular uprisings. the contempt for their own citizens that have been conveyed a lot of these government for decades, they had seemed indifferent to the well-being of their own citizens. they seemed to have lost touch with the populations that they were putatively responsible for. and in all that respect, this is, as people often say, a set of protests about dignity, about citizens who had they themselves put it, lost their fear and wanted to demand the respect that they thought they deserved from their governments. and they think it's important to

understand that that is in many important ways the framing of this. this is not particularly ideological. it's not particularly about socialism or nationalist and for ideologies of any kind. it is about several issues of wanting government that are respectful of the people they're supposed to serve and accountable to them. one of the things they think was noticeable over the last decade or so and this is a sort of ford picture if you will, about the decay of the relationship between government and their citizens in many of these countries. what is the accumulation of garbage in the street? and i was astonished when i was last in libya, which was in 2007 by the extent to which this oil-rich country was still the, absolutely filthy. so it wasn't about poverty.

it wasn't about how one could manage public services go forth and so on. this is a country in which citizens themselves, people were expressing contempt for government and dissatisfaction with current situation by throwing garbage in the streets. and they openly acknowledge that because obviously when he visited country in the see a particularly wealthy country carbajal over the place, you can hardly resist inquiring about how that has come to be. the buffet we don't care. retort in the streets. the interesting thing is the government didn't pick it up. it was a mutual attempt. it was a sense of just all right, we'll live in a pigpen and we don't care. it was that kind of demoralization that ultimately animated these sorts of protests. and you can see the other side of that when you see what happened in the aftermath of the protests in egypt, where the place is spotless, where every single again her son has been

cleaning and painting the bridges and painting sidewalks and so forth and so on. i don't know whether you've seen these pictures come up right across the country there is a cleanup campaign and it is once again sort of emblematic of being tired of flipping in a circumstance in which it just didn't feel clean. and whether you mean that literally or whether you mean that anaphoric leg, there was too much corruption, so forth that one. there is a sense that part of what this is about to citizens wanting to live in a circumstance in which they are respected by their governments, where their rights are acknowledged as citizens in which they have response abilities that are also acknowledged, including things like keeping things clean. simple, simple points that most people in other societies, including the one. right now sort of take for granted. but i wanted to paint that

picture at the outset because i think it is important for those of us who are analysts here to keep in mind that when we say these are not particularly ideological, they are ideological in the sense that this is a generation of people who think their government are there to serve them, who think that they should be respected by those governments, who think this government should be accountable to them, but are not swept up in ideological movements of any kind. i think there is a generational change in the region in that respect as well as in how they organize themselves and facebook and social media and that sort of thing. their parents were ideologues in ways that they are not. i think we will see that bear fruit over the course of the coming years. that said, the patterns of how these protests develop, the kinds of things that were the specific targets of protest are

actually quite different in the three countries that want to talk about. tunisia, egypt and libya. and it's important to note that, as i said, because i think some of the policy prescriptions that we will see developing in the countries themselves as well as outside will reflect these sorts of differences. in tunisia, one of the things that is i think worth remarking is that the protest started in the hinterlands. they started in rural areas, in areas that tunisia that particularly nicolette did by a government that was extraordinarily good at painting a picture of a successful middle income country that had woke him to resign and so forth and so on. a picture definitely was a village, behind which there is quite a bit of misery, quite a bit of unhappiness, quite a bit of resentment against the government to center and whose

ruler was unconscionably corrupt. now, that suggest there's a way to be fashionable a corrupt and perhaps there isn't. in this case, it was really, really predatory, in a way that was deeply insulting and offensive to many people who were in the hinterlands, outside the part of the country was enjoying a new prosperity at all. there was a sense that the government -- the people around denali particularly had taken dishonesty to an art form. there is very, very little discussion and debate although we tend to think of all of these regimes of having been repressive of free expression in tunisia despite their image as a modern country and one that could host the u.n. conferences on information technology and so forth and so on. it was actually a very, very tightly controlled, far more than a case in egypt, for example. it meant that there was a façade

that everyone understood to be no more than a façade of this sort of modern western facing, you know, and facing middle developing countries. the corruption in tunisia was very much organized at the top. the president, ben ali and his family were routinely described as tradition talked about politics and corruption as the family and everybody knew that the family got a cut of any significant economic transaction in the country, including any foreign investment. there are multiple stories of foreign companies after considerably long negotiations deciding not to do business in tunisia because they simply could not get through the family. and it was the quality of corruption and predatory mass that was not only inhibiting the

kind of development and claim that they were promoting, but also deeply humiliating. there was as a result, when you talk about the family, ben ali himself at seven brothers and sisters in this way for 10 brothers and sisters, so it was a very large family of that very heavily on this kind of economy in. so there was very little genuine sense of economic development, genuine sense this was a set of policies that were designed to foster the prosperity of the country as a whole. if i like it was designed to foster prosperity for their particular family. and as i say, partly as a result, the revolt started in the hinterlands come in the furthest away from the family and the furthest away from the beneficiaries of the system and

spiral towards center. ultimately joined and supported by the long repressed, but still fairly well organized labor unions. so you see a move that stunned at the periphery and moving to the center, both economically, geographic lee, politically and obvious facts. the interesting thing about the quality of corruption in tunisia and as i say for some of us making distinctions against corruption may be a fine point that is unpleasant, but it think it's not insignificant. the quality of the middle to low level administration in tunisia was actually retain a fair amount of technocratic expertise. the corruption as i'm going to suggest in egypt was of a different quality. so the prospects for tunisia to retain and build on a relatively

strong apparatus state administration throughout the country i think are quite good. today there are obviously debates about a successor regime that continue apace. there was a fair amount of us certainty and stability and the transition the two nations having gone first with the most surprised, the least equipped to think about what kind of government would be an appropriate transition from ben ali to some more permanent successor regime. the army did not support the government, but neither did agree to rule. i think part of what is interesting about the role of different armies and we can talk about this later if you like, but the only army that we're talking about in these three cases that actually saw genuine combat experience with the egyptian army. as a result of outcome and they are elected to give them what

they call mission creep. they are not interested in sustaining their role in the political realm, but i get ahead of myself a little. the prospect of a loyal in tunisia is very high. the movement can begin to represent a loyal opposition and one of the things that has been characteristic of the regime since there was never any space for the idea, much less our loyal opposition. either you supported the government or you're betraying the country. and what we need to see that most of these countries is the existence and building up stability of the loyal opposition, predebate policy without necessarily being seen as a traitor to the country as a whole. and i think in some respects tunisia has some assets that the strength of the administration, labor unit which is likely to play a role as the government or is the loyal opposition.

i think the fact that tunisia faces road to the streets circumstances is probably going to mean that collect information more effect today, budget more effectively than they might if they were less constrained in financial terms. we can return to the propositions later if you want. you should then solve the next of the significant uprising. and as you well know, these were very urban in contrast to the tunisian case, the uprising, protests were not only in cairo and not only downtown cairo. there is significant uprising in alexandria and suez and so forth, but this was an urban phenomenon. one of the things that is a consequence of that is of course among many others the outcome of the referendum on the constitutional amendment because

the only people that voted no with the people that have been trawling tents and purposes into rear square, was very urban. if you look at patterns of support for the constitutional amendments in the rural areas is practically 100%. for the people who are prepared to be politically good and challenge the military were almost entirely what you might call the intelligentsia in the urban areas. but what you also saw in addition to the fact it was urban was an extremely highly disciplined protest movement and there was and it remains a reluctance on the part of people who organize these movements to surface as it features some and not respect, that is not an ideological position, but a principled position that they are part of the people. they are not leaders and so forth and so on, so they don't want to surface at this juncture. what is really important about

this is that serves them while at the protest organizers. it does not necessarily serve them well after the protest has ceded. and i think it's fair to say the people who organize the protest, as they cut the lead in the beginning of january, as they organized at january 25th police day protests, they did not expect to prevail. they'd organize protests in the past but it fizzled out. they learned lessons in that. they learned a lot about civil disobedience, nonviolent protests and so forth, but they did not expect that they would be confronted with success in the way they had. so they were extremely good at protesting and now are finding themselves ill-equipped and unprepared for actually managing their political position in the new feature. they were prepared for the opportunity when it presented

themselves in very well networked and very sophisticated in not only getting -- i think we debate this. we are in egypt and save us at 800,000 people, a million people? quite a lot of people for quite a long time. in a context where they were -- sufficiently well organized, not provoke by thugs and saboteurs who try to make a pilot. we can talk more about would have been interviewed or scared, but it was a very sophisticated capacity to rally the troops, keep them engaged, keep them peaceful and hence you saw the atmosphere developer for the course of time. some of that was a totally great effort to ensure that it was peaceful impossible to sustain it for what turned out to be several weeks. the authoritarian as some might think that this protest actually

revealed was not the kind of critic terry -- predatory regime that we saw in tunisia, but actually an authoritarianism more of that black. over the course of time, the regime just got out of touch, stop thinking about a lot of the kinds of things that ordinary people care about so that over the course of time, things in egypt, whether it education or basic social services for salaries or anything are formally very, very cheap. the former wages are low. teachers get paid pittance. plus, everybody supplements their salary was something that could be described as corrupt. you know, the small-scale bribes

to the police. the private lessons that all the teachers gave in order for students to be prepared for exams. everybody has a second job in the second source of income. and so in fact, things in egypt are expensive. it's hard to get the social services you are putatively had as a matter of. there is no such thing as free education, even though education is free. you have to pay for the private lessons. so all of that -- there's a kind of pervasive small-scale corruption that is born of a failure to keep pace with inflation and wage rates for teachers or keep pace for police or the huge 6 million civil servants there are in egypt. they are all underpaid and they all have some other source of an come. so one of the real challenges for egypt is not so much are

moving a predatory family, although their actions he should partially unfounded against mubarak family, but the real challenge is to reform its 6 million person public bureaucracies so that people are paid enough, they don't need to supplement that and then they stop supplementing. that is going to be very complicated. it's not probably impossible to do, but a different challenge than the tunisia reformers will be feasting. i do think the effects of neglect in egypt are going to be heard or to reverse that removing the predatory family, the effects of neglect in egypt then removing the family in tunisia. but as i say, the debate on the future, the extent to which they organized around a very, very simple, would be familiar to many americans safe and clean neighborhood is in many respects

very appealing and there is an enormous amount of sordid these esm immobilization about taking responsibility. as i say, people clean up neighborhoods that had been claimed by anyone since the government wasn't doing it and local residents were doing it. suddenly people were cleaning up a brave. suddenly people as police disappeared, december had boxes appeared of local citizens taking responsibility for their own impulses saying we are a citizen of this neighborhood, not only this country. we want to be held responsible. they want to be accorded the responsibility. that change in the way egyptians see interactions with each other in public authorities is quite remarkable and does bode well over the long run for a transition that does -- it does

capture a sense of them reinforce a sense of responsibility in the part of many citizens. it is fairly clear that the data for step in and manage the transition does not want to say. i think a lot of the vote for yes was not about the constitutional amendments. it was for the military's timeline quickly. in context like this and this is true in all of the last voted for fox and mexico. there's a lot of strategic -- i don't necessary agree, but i want the consequent is. i think a lot of people didn't even know what the constitutional amendment were, but they were voting one because they could vote and they didn't know what the outcome would be. that in itself is exciting. they thought if they voted yes, this was a way of not insulting

the military and ensuring that they did leave promptly as they promised to do. we contact more about prospects for the transition if you want. i think there is ample reason and i certainly sitting in cairo and very optimistic about the press x of hiv complicated that easy, but ultimately successful transition in egypt. libya by contrast they could not be more pessimistic about. the ragtag band of rebels in the eastern province intimated by the enthusiasm and the lack of fear demonstrated by the young people in both tunisia and egypt are completely unquiet deleted even internally much less with other rebels in other parts of the country. there is and has been for decades virtually no free information available in libya

about what's going on libya, much less the rest of the world. much of what libyans know about each other is unreliable and it could be and there's very little capacity to coordinate. the sort of discipline and organization you saw among the egyptians is not something you see among libyans because for the last 30 years, the regime in libya has deliberately and relatively successfully prevented the growth of bureaucracy, professional middle classes in nationwide networks of economic ties, civic organizations, anything. so what you see now is can you hear that i've tried and tried list of libya. this is a renewed or induce travelers and because one of the few reliable sources as solace

and support in context with family. tribal ties have become to attenuate 50 or 60 years ago have become less important if people are professional identities and so forth, wrapped it in a capacity to have the identities and in effect if a people resorted to family because the only way you could get access to the kinds of social services they needed for education or other kinds of permissions to do things in libya was through those kinds of connections. what's interesting about corruption in libya is it demonstrate there has to be something public which is turned to private sources, private purposes. but the definition of corruption in some sense. and this is it, there's no public. it is at this point gadhafi and his revolution in ideological supporters and his family. i'm not. so it's hard to argue that the

way people have behaved in the extent to which they relied on their own families for access to the kind of daily needs that we all have constitutes corruption when there wasn't any alternative to that at all. all of this means in my estimation that the post-gadhafi reconstruction will be far more about state formation than democratic transition. i think we are starting behind zero terms of the construction of the nationwide steve administration that would be recognized by all of libya's as having any legitimacy. i think that's going to be a real challenge. i think there are regional tensions that are long-standing and the crowd. the east was always relatively solid under gadhafi and it's no surprise that's where the

protest started. it's also true you see a lot of fairly opportunistic quote tribes moving towards rebels and when the rebels fortune but bad company move towards the government and so forth and so on. there's opportunism considers the ideological commitments of any kind except opposition to gadhafi among those people who think they can get away with it. and i think that is really the? now is whether that opposition will be able to get away with being in opposition. one of the famous gadhafi has said tonight in kiev in most respects a man of his word is that he will die a martyr to the revolution. so unlike an ali, who was exiled from tunisia, but survives or mubarak who wasn't even required to be the country, but just enough to his home in sharm el-sheikh, gadhafi is going to be, if in fact the rebels

prevailed both be killed in his body will be dragged through the streets so people know he's really dead. there is that quality to the tension. nobody is going to give up this fight because they know if they surrender they'll be killed, so they may as well die in battle. nobody on either side or perhaps on any side believes there is any merit or value our prospect in surrender. so it is going to be a blood that in many ways. and i think that is and remains a challenge for people who work and from the outside come in saying is of course, in part at least, the taste of the united nations doctrine on the response ability to protect civilians and so forth, but at the same time it is also like these other protests against authoritarian rules, not since we can issue of

civilians. this is what could be described as a civil war. if you put your thumb on the scale and trying to protect civilians, you are actually taking sides in a war. that may be fine. it certainly was part of the calculus in the arab league. he knew perfectly well what they were doing. gadhafi is one of the most unpopular people in the world than a few of the arab league. there was no love lost there, but those are the calculations at the international community are going to have to live with us this resolves itself, however it does. so in sum, they are very different kinds of nondemocratic settings and therefore very different kinds of protests against those nondemocratic regimes and it behooves us to desegregate them one from the other insert again about what the prospects for various kinds of policy regimes in the

aftermath of the fall of the authoritarian regime may be. as they suggested, i think we have two cases where we have reasonable cause for optimism. i'm particularly optimistic that he checked, but that's because they would very think. i think if i was living in tunis to be optimistic about tunisia, too. it's going to be her to be chipped, but it's got a good shot at being a more open, dynamic society than it has been in recent years. one of the things, however in the nonstop. entertain your observations that i think we need to be concerned about is the cost that libya may represent a new would be very much if those countries pr per pad was sorting out he did end up being much less actually

doing anything in libya because you can see the temptation and so forth and so on. on the other hand, they are very, very busy. if they succeed in any way to develop anything would be so hugely valuable to the poll that has first been abstemious and about asking them to do anything in order for libya and on that note we can stop and talk about tahirir square if you like. thank you. >> thank you very much,.to render certain. tabak i'm going to use my privilege as a moderator and asked the first question if i can. is there any emerging trend that we can see what the egyptians thinking of the parliamentary

system or is that too premature to talk about such trends and maybe a couple words on the muslim brotherhood in egypt. >> as they said, what is the interesting aspects about circulation right now if people do not expect to be in this system. if you ask any egyptian on a 25th of january cover whether two months later they would be thinking about whether a presidential system is better than parliamentary committee say lets us get to the protest. in that respect, this is a moment where egyptians across the country are aptly starved for information. they love thinking about this. they don't know anything about parliamentary systems. these are not debates had it taken place in the country. so, we are out of point where people simply want to know what the choices are. there's another site tv. at auc, we are running public programming after night from how

you were firmer constitution or what amendments may be or when the electoral system be or how party are organized or how the american eyes in different ways whether you have a presidential system. ending, all of this is all new. the answer is no. nobody has much less of a conviction about what kind of system would serve them best. they tried to figure out what systems are and given what systems there are, what interests they have and whether those to be better served by system any or system v. or some hybrid system or something like that. the two parties are two groups that are believed to be the best organized are of course the reminiscent of the ndp, the ruling party and nobody really knows what will happen, whether its remnants will be organized in recounts to getting something like a non-communist communist

party. will it be alive or will it be taken apart and each niche in decision to try and just completely and the life of the ruling party doesn't seem to be on the horizon in egypt at this point. but nobody knows it's going to happen to that. it does have the strongest network, grassroots supported the rural areas among people who voted for constitutional amendments. but that time the docket for all of the people who are protesters of course they don't have party organizations. they are not greeted dcs for the political parties who had been the formal opposition parties and they are trying to figure out whether they form a party and if they form a single party, what is it about? can they form a lot of little parties? would cost if there to them?

that may be why they won a parliamentary system because parliamentary systems are better for smaller parties. all of that is complete you open up for grabs. all i can see is people are staying up all night train to figure it out. remind my egyptian colleagues all the time of oscar wilde's crack, but the trouble with socialism takes too many evenings. actually the trouble with democratic transitions as they take too many cute things and that's really the situation people are in. the interesting thing about the brotherhood is that's also the group with the best organized and so forth with remnants of the ndp. i think it's pretty obvious they were it would mean c. ideological so much as significant generational cleavage is within the brotherhood in this generational cleavages are not simply about okay, the older brothers had sort of past their prime and it's my turn. now 55. it is about what the role of the

brotherhood should we. so this becomes an interpreter had to be about politics, brotherhood, aspirations weatherhead and so forth and so on. weatherhead and so forth and so on. from the outside to say so on. from the outside to say they are covariant and well organized. if you begin to ask inside, they are coherent, organized as a patriot that work. i think there is data about that as is the ndp. if you did patronage networks that have no real purpose in life, you have these two groups are still fairly strong. the mbt has been decapitated and the muslim brotherhood doesn't know who should be the end of it, if you will. there is a lot of debate in the air. so even what we think of is the best organized are not particularly well organized. and they were prepared for this

either. the brotherhood was accustomed to being sort of cranky and claiming to be, if we could run come ever vote. and now, presented with these opportunities, they are not just poised either. so it's a very interesting moment, where nobody was ready for this and everybody is scrambling to figure out how to best take advantage for opportunities they never expected to have. it is said be careful what you wish for a moment in egypt for everybody. >> okay, let's take a group of questions at a time than if you could just be who you are in the represent. over there. >> judge. , documentary filmmaker. with respect to each of then your comment that they are searching for alternatives and can't quite figure out what kind of system they want, in respect to that, amendments to the constitution seems to me to be

somewhat immature. a constitution would follow the decision. is there any kind of movement towards her discussion of it issue an assembly where they would then form a constitution based on the decision of what system they want? >> yes, please. >> ruth santini from brookings institution. just a couple of -- i would be very interested in your opinion on what the perception that the u.s. in egypt currently are and whether there is debate on how the u.s. might help in these very delicate politically transition phases, especially related to the point you're making about the choice of political systems. thanks. >> in the back, please. over here.

>> hi, thank you for joining us. the movements in the jets have been larger described by power use. is there something about this the challenges cultural norms have respect for the elderly and the community, the experience in egypt? and also come at these events inspired the scholarship on the region? >> i'm going to take that. i'll go backwards on this because that -- those are all interesting questions. the first of all, and scholarship, it did most of the scholars were prepared for this come is that everybody's trying to get there their book finished before the start enqueued about this. a lot of the other books were about persistence of authoritarianism, so he might have to forget about it altogether. it is kind of interesting. i mean, nobody was prepared.

the cultural norms and the use -- this is a very interest in question -- dynamic. one of the things they think people don't quite appreciate your is the extent to which the parents of these jets are proud of their children. it's astonishing. .. the funny thing about it is

there's no free education support, the rich, everybody pays for it and this is the redemption of that. that is investment has paid off hasn't paid off in the sense that these kids have good jobs for which they're educated because as you all know the mismatch between the skills and jobs and so forth on the 20 for the general area of hot this sense that the kids did lose their fear and represent we are going to take control again of our destiny and so forth and so on is all of egypt is proud of, all of the families are proud of, so in that sense it doesn't seem like you should be respectful and hierarchy and what about the older which is quite a significant dynamic. what is interesting about, and i

remarked on this facetiously in the united states about, quote, kids today is this is the generation that of their parents to program the vcr for decades and their parents are used to it. both the kids are used with and the parents are used to get so i as a parent know things and you're supposed to listen to me. that dynamic has changed around the world, everywhere in the world that dynamic has changed and you were even seeing it in the context where there was much more deference to the father of the family than is the case in the united states and you still see that dynamic so this is something and this is indeed from all the way through. so it's not just the useful and lost of testosterone at that age and that kind of stuff. this is a different set of

responsibilities. these are you often hear the stories of migrants in the united states the children translated for the parents and that created a different dynamic. in the sense this entire generation of around the world translated to their parents and so it's a very interesting dynamic and in all of these places this is part of the reason why it's happening and it's part of the reason why we are going to -- its kind be interesting to see how we develops. the relationship between the authority and age and so forth is just different. but i have to say one of the most becoming things about this is the extent of the parents think their kids are the cat's whiskers. perception to the united states, less adorable. the united states has seen and

you undoubtedly know from the perspective of the region to be behind every single time not having called on to what was going on indonesia or what was going on in egypt and not having called on to what was going on in libya in part because what was going on was different each time so in fairness you wouldn't want to necessarily extrapolate one to the next automatically but there are other reasons why from the perspective of the region the american policy statements just didn't seem like they were very agile, very quick, very informed, very knowledgeable that may not be fair but that's what it looks like from the region. in terms of what kind of things the united states can be doing now, whether there is as i say again, particularly in tunisia and egypt, and i think this is happening, so credit where it's due, this hunger for information about how politics works is

quite genuine and there are ways to address that and to answer that which is sending people who know things like that, get those debates going, one of the things we've been doing which is not american foreign policy related as such but one of the things everybody wants to hear is what happened in latin as a aradhana what happened in chile and how did they get -- what happened after pat o'shea, what happened in eastern europe, you know, how did that work? they don't think they are like that but there are best practices or learn the lessons of mistakes not to make. they know they were around, so the more that kind of discussion and debate particularly if it is if i could put it this way sort of south particularly if it's not american political coming and saying the presidential system and parliamentary system, no it's the people actually acting and writing those

constitutions, thinking about who knew the difference between al bandana and poland that's what's important right now and there is an enormous appetite with that. >> the evenings are already filled up with talking to each other about what we are going to do and then you have seminars bringing you from hungary and it's very busy and it's very hectic and so forth that kind of saying there are ways people have thought about these kind of issues they may or may not apply here but it's worthwhile knowing about them. that is proving to already be very productive and in some respects that is the sort of democracy promotion that's been done in the past and by bringing in laterally who've had that experience people are really hungry and interested in

integrated by that so that i think would be useful. obviously there will not be adequate in libya to be helpful in destructive in tunisia and egypt for civil. on the question of the constitutional amendments, there was a lot of discussion about why it was whether we should have a constituent assembly and all that sort of stuff. everybody i knew was reading the federalist papers for about a week and a half. how do you do this? that's what i mean, this is the deeply engaged -- for a political scientist everybody in egypt is a political scientist right now so it's very gratifying all the people will fall off year after a while. it does get tiresome for those of us that don't do it all the time. part of the way the military i think from all of this was after the president is elected, some of the constitutional amendments

that permit changes in the presidential term and who can run for office and so forth and so on, a lot of changes but open the system for candidates who wouldn't have been permitted under the existing constitution then you have those elections, the new parliament because the parliament was universally understood to have been produced by the rig elections in the fall so you need a new parliament, a new president coming presidential election so that you have at that point the military withdrawal the the back to the barracks and then, if you want to talk about the constitution again, go ahead so extreme that way. nobody said that the constitution with these amendments is necessarily the permanent constitution. it was with modest reforms to permit getting to the next six months or so. so there may be the revisiting of all that. there are very of her home models.

lively discussions of late is the american constitution is only six pages long and the egyptian constitution doesn't believe to dozens of pages. t want a constitution that outlines all of the rights and if it's not mentioned here it's the right. there are different philosophies of the constitution so i wouldn't be surprised if those things didn't come up again. but people want to get through this transition per adult and that was the plan. >> jessica matthews of the carnegie endowment. thank you for the wonderful talking and for all we've heard and read we've still weren't so much new. let's meet your description of libya. it was hard on the two different grounds for me to imagine a happy outcome of the intervention. either on the grounds of the fight to the debt on with sides of the expectation and of when can the libyans manage

themselves and the western forces is that a fair set of conclusions to draw from what you've said and can you see a happier future. >> david? >> can you think i hit a year let's say we've had the political transition relatively smoothly, elections, they formed the government, would be the top of the agenda and public debate in egypt at that point, will be governance issues like corruption, will lead the bread-and-butter issues, jobs, high prices or willoughby foreign policy issues which usually comes down to being

palestine? >> thank you. david pollack from the washington institute. kingsbury match. i wanted to ask about the military egypt and institute and do you feel that its own longer term or medium term interest, some people argue in putting a lot of the revolutionaries that by handing over the power quickly as it wants to in a way that's space but it may also mean that the remnants of the ndp and the muslim brotherhood would be and the most comfortable working with because they are a head start so to speak to you see the military rule in egypt as one of let's say hanging onto its economic privileges, opposing workers' rights, posing serious economic

reforms and so on and other words that would be not that different of what we've seen up until the revolution. >> one more question. >> from the resources and then at least institute. i would like to encourage you to go back and think big. ten years ago you wrote an article called arab democracy, a dismal prospect so i dug it out last week and asked my graduate students to look at it hot and ask the question and i think you've already suggested the social implications and the technology and can you take on the broad question? >> i will try that. >> the international community

not just the united states was in a very difficult position. because as the tide turned against the rebels you increasingly confronted the possibility that they would actually be defeated by the regime but that would have been hugely demoralizing across the region and was palpable in egypt not that the egyptians particularly care about libya or even that they particularly care about the prospects of the protests in libya, but they didn't on the protests to be destroyed like that, they just didn't and so there really was this sense that the protest movement in the region and, you know, in a sort of strange bedfellows sort of way, the governments that make up the

arab league all wanted to take this opportunity to say no, we don't want him to prevail, we just don't. and perhaps for different reasons partly because people were enthused a protest might succeed in libya and some because they were just sick and tired of khaddafi as the previous that the they were confronted with a trace of saying we are not intervening. and we know that that is going to get us into a really difficult set of dilemmas of how we get out and what happens and since he himself knows and has known for a long time that this was his likely end to his regime as any other he's physically, literally, personally going to be hard to find.

so it could go on for a long time in that kind of stalemate house-to-house so forth and so on the body wants to have anything there. they are willing to drop bombs as we've seen but beyond that nobody wants to do anything more it has come to -- i don't think there was any choice. i don't think the prospect would be able to destroy the rebellion and all of its supporters which would have been a massacre was palpable. people couldn't do that. the problem is we now have a situation which may lead us to also on probable, palatable prospects and i think it is a significant problem, and i had hoped, speaking of things i had written before that we would have been able to intervene something more of a kind of what we hoped would happen leader

than we did coming in by understand we are all busy and we don't have time to do all that kind of thing, but to talk a little bit about who we think will be responsible for assisting the libyans when they start of construction would have been becoming. even if it turned out we couldn't implement it. but to say something we did not expect to be -- week, the united nations, we, the united states, anybody, that there was this sense that we were going to return responsibility to the libyan people, whoever they are coming and we would provide some kind of assistance to them as they gathered around the table as people who have literally not talked face-to-face in years and that's what will be. people from tripoli who have not for years and years and years, people from inside and outside but somebody has to be a facilitator there.

>> we imagine that from happening it would have permitted us to say that from the beginning in good faith we did not intend this to be anything but an effort to ensure that he didn't win. unfortunately right now it's not clear what it is, so everybody's wondering about why we would be bothered when we aren't doing it in other places and so forth and so on. i think there was a legitimate rationale for what we did when we did it. but i would get lost because we didn't really describe what we anticipate it to happen afterwards. egypt in the year will be about economic issues. at that point there will be some kind of a cool sense of a political landscape. there will be the left and right and the ndp make over and

brotherhood, there will be the political landscape and those parties will be advocating policies which will mostly be about domestic economic issues. i think everybody anticipates substantial inflation. we know the stock exchange at this point. tourism disappeared entirely since you have a huge sector with millions of employees, people who are employed as opposed to the unemployed who are unemployed. there's a lot to worry about in the domestic economic front and i think there will be a lot of that. i think will actually a little bit into the military which will get to in a minute. pyrrophyte of, you know, i just don't think foreign policy is going to be the principal issue unless for some reason we or somebody else decide to make the issue but this wasn't about foreign policy. it's still not about foreign policy, it is about accountable government and fairness and a lot of labor protests calling on all over egypt right now are as

much, partly about money but partly about dignity, you, the employer are not paying the living wage which is probably true, so it is as much about the right to the living wage to a certain number of towns. that will continue and there will be lots of debates about the policies on things like what should be the minimum wage and how to accommodate the fact that what do you do with all of your unemployed and will will the minister of social solidarity be doing in welfare and so forth and so on? keep in mind that the current minister of finance is sexually the labor economist. and that should tell you something already about the kind of priorities of the military have. they are not interested in the washington consensus economic reform, they are not. and actually one of the problems in egypt in my estimation is if you look of the people who've been charged with corruption,

the former ministers and so forth, some of them are corrupt but some of them were advocates of economic privatisation cannot personally corrupt of all, taking the policy position which is now on a popular. so they've gotten caught up, but this is somehow corrupt that big business is corrupt and it's impossible to be a big businessman without being corrupt and it's impossible to be a minister that was supporting business without being corrupt so that needs to get pulled apart and we need to take the lead could take the people actually corrupt of whom there were some and to segregate that, but it does -- i think it is an early signal of the kind of policies that the military are likely to be advocating in so far as the advocate. for the successor regime. it could be about the economic policy but much more status to the middle mubarak era set of

policies much more about equity than growth. that serves the military purposes. i mean, they are big owners of state enterprises and so forth so why should they be interested in privatization? they are not. in addition to that though going beyond that a little bit i think the military wants to be behind the curtain. they want what they were before. the worked very well. and they don't really care as long as there is an implicit deal they can stay behind the curtain and see what they were before. they don't care what goes on or who the government is as long as those prerogatives are not challenged. to tell you the truth, i think the vast majority of people are perfectly content with that. even the people to hear a square

they realize that the increase is pretty much all they have so those are the ones climbing on the tanks kissing everybody. those people are also willing to say okay get back behind the curtain, let us debate everything else. there's plenty else to debate. and some day in the future the question of the military prerogative may come up, but not for now. and i think there would be a perfectly reasonable resolution by the likes of most people. now obviously there are a few intellectuals who are going to push this, but by and large people would be content because there are lots of other issues that people can be -- free expression and issues of labor rights and wages and all that -- there's lots of other stuff to discuss and egypt before you start saying the the military has a big chunk of the economy, so i think that's what they want, and if they get it, they are pretty liberal. >> the gentleman in the back.

>> [inaudible] >> right. i skipped it committed by? a freudian slip. [laughter] i do think it's partly the maturation of the generation i have to say. when we were thinking about, you know, that the regime's were getting sort of long in the tooth and we were suggesting they had gotten very long in the tooth by now we were speculating about the next generation and who would be the people who would come out and so forth and that was the era of khaddafi and mubarak and all of the people we used to talk about that seemed

to be the kind of inevitable transfer of power. there didn't seem to be any other way of how you would get to the next generation was only through the squall site marked cool way which nobody thought was satisfying, nobody thought that would work but they didn't seem to be the way to get to what turns out to be the next generation. some of the things interesting is across all of these three countries -- and i would argue this is true in the region as a whole there is the lost generation of the parents and they have to concede and this gets to this is it my turn because i'm old enough to do it or am simply going to say the kids can do it for us? but that generation that is between 82 and 32 is just stuck and they didn't figure out how to do it themselves and they

have to concede to their kids. yes, like prince charles. >> i am an egyptian american and i am giving up to my kids and grandchildren, they are the future and so delighted with they have done. i have a question about possible hijacking. is it -- we are not there yet. there's a lot of groups that have been mentioned. is it possible we will get lifted from the democracy to some hijacking? i would like your opinion on this and i'm delighted you feel optimistic about the future of egypt and i'm glad to hear that. the other question as an egyptian american, what can we do to help?

thank you. >> [inaudible] a quick couple of questions. first of all, why the latest referenda, why there was the participation of the solo, i believe it was -- can you please elaborate on that and second, secretary of state clinton was their last week and the group rejected meeting with her. was it the reflection of the deep sentiment of europe is there a grudge against the u.s. the last three decades or five decades or was it just temporary? the last question you talk about some models, and american and other models and as a young

muslim majority country was the topic of entertaining washington, turkey. would you please touch on that? thank you. >> in 2003 a document was discovered in the headquarters, intelligence headquarters of saddam hussein and baghdad. 13 kurdish women were sent to egypt to its brothels. the parents of these women appealed to the first leave egypt sissonne mubarak and their appeals are to deaf ears. caltrans print is the egypt? could something be discovered about these women?

>> thank you for your sharing with us in your capacity have the head of york university in cairo and the trend changed now that most of the people who work the character of the revolution was beyond. and what is in the upcoming tour three years regarding the change in egypt. >> i will start with that and give you my inaugural address. [laughter] i think -- will first of all i do not think despite the fact that the youth group didn't meet with secretary clinton and so forth and you want to do not see the anti-american sentiment in this. this is the interest of each

option, it is about relations between governments and citizens over the course of time as the policy positions began to congeal a little that i suppose just as with economic policies you will see foreign policy positions and so forth and so on but it really is not about that and i don't think in any of these countries at this point that's what the principal question is. i do think one of the things that i will brag for a minute about because i am paid to but also because i would any way we've played a role in promoting the kind of education for citizenship which is what animates these kind of movements. so, without saying other kinds of education are not also important, i think the idea that the liberal arts education which

encourages critical thinking and encourages people to ask questions and think nimbly and so forth creates better citizens and i think much of that in polls and spirit was evident not only in the protests but in their effective management and the relationship between the leaders of the movement with the weissman if you will who negotiated with the government and so forth and so on. so i think various enormous opportunity to continue playing that kind of role in the new egypt. i think it's actually going to be easier to do that than it had been in the past. it will be amplified through free expression and so forth in a way that it wasn't before. so from my vantage point, the kind of values that they represent should be even more deeply appreciated and embedded in the society so as you can

tell i'm very optimistic. one small gesture that we've made to this end in the short run auc is governed by a particle in the egyptian and american government and one of its provisions is that auc has a position called the university counselor who is the liaison to the egyptian government. we've had for the last three years the university counselor who has among other things watched the university to the search for the new president and sort of see how the university operates and he's on public service leave an idea that is new to egypt as the minister retired education so we hope the experience seen from the inside the workings of a genuinely not-for-profit private institution and so forth will have some utility as he thinks about the fact that all of the

national universities are now in an uproar because the students of the president's and the beans removed because they were appointed by the president of the republic. that is mubarak. so how do you design a mechanism for the selection of presidents and deans? it probably won't be for the board of trustees to run a search for the president which is obviously what auc did, but something different from simply saying the president names these people is likely to come out of that. so i think in lots of ways like that, large and small, we will prove to be contributing to the capacity to think about different ways of doing things. from the political science on we can bring experts on the parliamentary systems and presidential systems to the way we operate and run our own affairs might be useful examples to consider as we go forward so why think auc represents an

opportunity of resource for egypt now even more than it did in the past and i hope we fulfill those expectations. >> the kurdish women question naturally i don't obviously know the answer about the particular case but about transparency is an interesting one because i think there is the intent to be a much more transparent government even in this transition period than had been the case before. but note that for all intensive purposes of the finals of the interior ministry have been burned. there has been five years in the interior ministry and in the local state security offices all over the country and the reason we know about the interior ministry is it is a block and a half away from our downtown campus and so we are constantly having to reroute our buses and so forth because there is a failure at the interior ministry.

the upshot however is there is clearly an effort on a number of parties parts to destroy evidence. and some of the protesters did put out the fires and try to get some of that evidence and so forth but it's interesting it's not even clear altogether who has been lighting the fire because there are disaffected police who went back in and started some of the fires and there are probably security people in the interior ministry destroying evidence. that is what many of the protesters think. in any even, this is part of the one of the transition questions. the extent to which you have a capacity for documenting the truth and reconciliation and so forth and so on -- part of the point of burning of that evidence is making it harder to do that, so it may be that going

forward you have a much more transparent, bureaucratic, ordinary if you will kind of that ministry that apparatus but it's not clear that kind of administrative apparatus will be will to recoup the past, and the question of the past and who should be brought to justice is in fact a complicated one so i think as i say that case i have been lost in the fire. other ones like that may have been lost in the fire, love but we will never know. there is some recuperation of some of this material and some of it had been shredded and we were kind facetiously talking about the fact as it happened in the aftermath of the iranian revolution there's a lot of unemployed students that can piece together the shredded material that may happen in some circumstances, but the stuff

that's burned is burned so i don't know what will happen. turkey as a model is something that you hear a lot actually in the united states. you don't hear it so much in egypt because i don't think they want to have any single model. this is going to be in each action project so they want to take a little bit from chile and turkey and a little bit from, you know, someone else and so forth and so on and construct something egyptian. it may barbour disproportionately from one country or another but people are starting to say what happened in indonesia, what happened in other places. so the muslim majority clearly wouldn't matter and that's why people are asking about indonesia. but at this point, there is no sense of okay this country shows us our future and that's quite deliberate on the part of those people who are trying to sort out what kind of policies and procedures they want to advocate

the youth and mrs. clinton i actually didn't put much in port in that. it's clear that mrs. clinton's visit wasn't well organized and so figuring out before hand who would be willing and able to meet with her and that kind of thing did happen and so some of that they left themselves open to apparently being disrespected if you will but i don't know that there is anything deeper to read into that in this juncture. on the issue of the turnout for the constitutional referendum, it may not sound like a lot to do but for the turnout for the parliamentary elections in the fall was 5%. net 40 is pretty high, and in fact it was viewed as pretty high. people were happy. all these people hadn't voted in 40 years, i never voted before, so forth and so on, so it may not have been 100% or in many of

the rural areas i think the get-out-the-vote mechanisms didn't actually operate and most of the people who voted actually wanted to vote and the interesting thing is they all said one of the things fun about voting is they didn't know how was going to come out. the turnout was high and was a satisfying experience for those who enjoyed it. as far as the egyptian americans can do now, i think there is a very important egyptian diaspora particularly the united states but elsewhere as well and i think this is the time where it is valuable to people in egypt to see that connection to see people making investments and

it's time, it doesn't have to be investments of money also being a little facetious i think warren buffett is right and are their values in egypt now. if i were an investor would be going in and picking up these properties because give me five or ten years i would be a millionaire and i think that's true literally, economically about business but i also think it's true in general this is such a good time to make investments as i say of time and expertise and commitment and moral support and whatever kind of resources you have this is a great moment to say yes the whole community of what is estimated to be 8 million egyptians living overseas, who knows, to have that be part of these conversations and be part of the networks and so forth and so on people when egypt love

that. they love to know people are paying attention and caring and so forth so whatever your resources are they would be welcomed back in egypt at this juncture. >> on this note i think you would all agree we have the very engaging and quite insightful presentations so please join me in thinking dr. anderson. [applause] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

out in chicago mayor richard daley says america has become a nation of, quote, y nurse. he made the comment recently at the college in illinois where he talked about his legacy at chicago's longest serving mayor. this is a little more than an hour. [inaudible conversations] [applause]

>> good afternoon ladies and gentlemen. ibm -- i want to welcome you this afternoon. i think this should be an extraordinary opportunity for us to listen and have a discussion for somebody that's been a major player not only in northern illinois and midwest but also national and many cases international scene. mayor daley started out the career in politics literally at his father's knee so i think somebody was giving statistics the other day during devotee election that was the first time in 57 years there hadn't been a daily on the ballot in chicago. when i was first cutting my teeth in the illinois

legislature, the major than was a state senator and had just gone to be the state's attorney for kirker county and the attorney for the state's for a number of years ran for the mayor and served the last 26 years, 22 years, seems like 26 sometimes, right? as the mayor of the city of chicago. obviously in my years in the congress, we had an opportunity to work together. i felt that there was no equal to this gentleman in being able to look a what was good for the greater area. and mayor daley has constantly reached out to the mayors in the suburbs and all over northern illinois to do what was good for the northern illinois. we worked together and things like the western expansion of the hair because i always felt for my constituents if you can get in and find a parking place to catch your plan and have a

relatively safe experience coming in and out of o'hare the was a good thing for him. the synergy of having the international airport really raised the ability of our city to be able to do business and i felt the same thing. what was good for chicago is good for northern illinois. and we were able to work together and there were a lot of issues coming and going through all those years that i had the privilege of coming and working with the mayor and actively having a great deal of achievement. so ladies and gentlemen, this is not only just an academic exercise, i think it is certainly an exercise and as this gentleman is leaving his career of 22 years as the mayor of one of the major cities of the great nation some of his insight and his feelings and i would guess a little politics added in the discussion as well. without further ado i would like

to introduce to you my good friend, the mayor of chicago, richard daley. [applause] >> good afternoon. >> thank you. i want to thank denney for inviting me today this afternoon to give a lecture and to thank him for his commitment of public service. he's a good friend of my brother, he was a great public servant. he served the people and the respected district as a state representative of the congress and of course as a speaker and during the term of all the relationships with him issues confronting not only his own constituents but the entire state was already on the forefront in the sense that he felt there was always ways to compromise and move forward than

to receive everything we wanted but in the sense we couldn't move this date forward and country forward and i appreciate his friendship and commitment and sacrifice over the many years in public service and that's what we are, we are public servants. we serve our constituents. once you are elected you serve the entire constituency and that is what people don't realize. primaries come and go in the elections, so once you are elected to serve the entire district for the entire city or state or nation and that's what we have to become all of us who work in the government or public servants and we work for you, pay the salaries and health care which is a question of pensions and all the other issues confronting the government in employees rightly so that your voice should always be heard on that and that's important in this day and age in the future

and so i could recite the example of denney who talked with the international airport and how important it is the economic engine of illinois at the region and the amount of jobs directly and indirectly of them on enormous debt that is the communication technology to the world and that is the future of the metropolitan area and that is very important. to bring together economic and political analysis and speakers and lectures to discuss the present problems and of course you have some vision about the future and look back at the mistakes that we all have made and make sure we don't like the same mistakes in the future which is important for the citizens of not only chicago and respective districts in the states but of course the country and the world and that is the key and focusing of course to another generation of young men and women who would give ways of

public service and the government but let me -- every aspect of your life is sometimes public service and your getting back into the community and making sure you become good citizens in regards to all the issues confronting people in the community or surrounding community or the world and why another generation of young people will i believe carry the torch and do a better job and all of those assembled here today are in the past and move forward. this generation i firmly believe will do it because they're just as committed and just as challenging as smart and can be smarter in regards to what they look at the and the issues and how we can solve them together. and we see that in an area many people don't want to talk about we see the unselfishness of people devoting their commitments into the military. and they decide to join the

military and there's something about that in this day and age if we just say no, so when the president calls the men and women of america have answered overwhelmingly in the last 20 years and you think of that loss of life and the challenges to the men and women come back. the hastily answer the call. this is a remarkable question to the condition and they don't question anyone who does that. they wanted to do it and i think that is the whole generation. it's not just them themselves but their friends and neighbors and all that, the willing to when they made the decision to make sure the support of them and so that's why i firmly believe that. our country will be in better hands continually with another generation. when we talk about chicago, and we talked about the region and that's what it is. it's not just chicago itself, it's not just western or northern or southern suburbs. it's based on the region.

so in springfield in 1972 as the state senator, why didn't realize the parks were in downstate illinois. [laughter] and so that one of really woke me up. [laughter] and i had the privilege of being a senator, and my father went to the general assembly in the 1930's as a state representative senator. he told me that's where you learn government and politics and i had the fortune of being a young senator and the chairman of the time for republicans and was amazing the assistance they gave me. i learned with whittemore and frank and some of the great centers of different committees and in respective positions because the republican held a majority, and i have a great experience because they helped me. they made me a better public

servant and a better senator and for that experience the issues are not about republicans and democrats, the largest public policy issues and how basically working together and when we took the majority -- i remember i was sitting there and the chairman -- the minority chairman from cicero really worked with me on the issues because he was a very well-respected lawyer on the committee so most the issues were not political in the sense that it wasn't a partisan issue and that was important for me. and that's where i really got to understand not just the suburban area in downstate but the first committee i wanted to get to was agriculture. why would richard daley want to go to the agricultural committee? the let three blocks from the

stockyards. [laughter] i see more things anybody could see and how they killed everybody my whole life and how important the agricultural industry was in the state of illinois was interesting and how we got to learn all about the agricultural industry to the committee and how important some issues were and you realize how important they are into the state of illinois. and then of course chicago. and there's always the divide, chicago and then we realize on the long run we have to exist together because what is good for we've and is good for chicago and for chicago is good for reading and the separation by the partisan politics has to be over otherwise we cannot compete as a global economy with the other areas of china, brazil and the world so all of us have set that aside and we work together because how do you become -- how do you look at a city, you have seen cities die and just over the years lost to

the manufacturing, everything in the city. but chicago is always changing. the world exposition and always changing. we are never afraid of change so that's when you have to do in life, business and family life and in government you have to change. if you don't change you live in the past seven of we never expected the past and have been off the path for the future and that's what it is. recently they ran the top ten economic centers so if you to the region, all of us on the top ten of the world. think about that and how we compete as a region and that's what we have to do. everybody says how can that be? chicago and the midwest and this purpose los angeles to read this is new york and the other cities as a region we are competing and

last year the foreign policy magazine ran chicago area as number six among the global cities comes to new york, london, tokyo, paris and hong kong. we are number six. think about that. that is amazing in the middle part of the country. [applause] that the region is ranked number six. the ranking was based on how much influence the city can have beyond its own borders and its ability to manage the global recession. just last week and happy to say newsweek magazine published a positive assessment of the city and its chicago steps out and i quote, let me quote a few lines because i think this peace activity captures the spirit of chicago, and i quote, there's no talk about any more about being the second city. chicago is not only the city that works but also an exciting city in which all these literary world's sean and.

chicago has lately become to see itself as a place whose inherent funniness can now embrace all sorts of improbable conventions and behavior. there is self-confidence and upbeat ceilings and the success. end of quote. they figured out the fashion industry the food and music. but also they made a special point about why the technical company had been in chicago and not somewhere else and the story said why didn't they start up in silicon valley? for the same reason facebook started at harvard both needed a local population of young people, not a community of cyber nerds or venture capitalists. chicago had with ayaan drew maysan needed, people. since i've been mayor with a with many partners especially in the business community, the have

been the strong part of chicago's history, the names of burnham and all of those great industrialists that with all over the metropolitan area made the commitment to rebuild not just chicago with the metropolitan area, and those who created the culture in chicago with all kinds of people and ideas to feel welcome where the creativity can flourish so the city was founded by immigrants. the past, present and future will be immigrants and last night i was honored by the professional and business school for doctors and lawyers and all types of business people all assembled about 400 last night to say thank you and regards to this big mosaic we have in the metropolitan area. devotees come into fashion themselves through the professions and college education graduate school and then from here living in the metropolitan area and begin a part of this great chicago

public and that's why i talked about last night in their commitment and it doesn't happen by chance. the process began with a developing a long-term vision in the plan and executing that in that plan for many years and that's what you have to do because as the mayor to deal with day-to-day issues within the government, but then you have to look at the long-range goal of what you want to accomplish as a city that will compete in the century. that's what you have to do. you can't just build it for today you have to look for the future and that's what you have to -- all the issues you decide to look at as one issue that the government business and the community and nonprofits must come together. so the idea of creating jobs and recreating jobs and thinking about the future and thinking about the technology industry. they open up in chicago. its large -- it's the biggest thing to ever happen in the country since facebook and put her and everything