technical area. all of a sudden chicago technology center people are talking about that and it's really interesting how thousands of employees they have and they stay for a year or two years and then the spinoff and start companies themselves.

european parliament representing southeast england. in march of 2009, he criticized then british prime minister gordon brown's response to europe's rescission to read that speech has been seen by millions on youtube. a link to the clippers on the web site, cspan.org. he was invited to speak to the leadership program of the rockies in colorado springs. this is a little less than an

hour. >> i wanted to stand up this year the first time i saw dan o'hanlon video on youtube. [applause] [cheering] >> i told myself here's someone who exemplifies what we practice and practice and practice during the speak out session of the lpr class. in fact if you don't know -- those were in the class remember that as our last gathering when we were about to go and launch into this beagle session i said we're going to pause for a moment because i want to show you somebody that typifies everything which practice and speak out. we put on the big screen the youtube speech that is now world famous, and we watched it and by the time we were done everybody was cheering and i remember i said wouldn't it be fun to spend time with that guy and a pretty said the would be great. wouldn't it be fun if he can to the lpr retreat? the would be great. i said he's coming. and i was really exciting, and

now he's here. daniel hannan is a member of the european and parliament for se in glenna since 99. winning the election to the top slot in to those of four and 2,000 fine. in the european parliament he led the campaign for the referendum on the european constitution. he was the first member of the european parliament to write and detail about the elements is and expenses available in brussels. in march of 2009, a year to put a speech to gordon brown and the european parliament attracted 1.4 million hits within the first 72 hours, making it by far the most watched political clout in british history. hannan is the author of nine books of which the most recent, "the new road to serfdom a letter of warning to america," here it is right here, if you want to go home with a copy of it signed by the way, you can pick it up right back there. "the new york times" best

seller. daniel blogs everyday at www.hannan.co.uk at nursing political and cultural issues. his blog attracts 200,000 hits a week from 80,000 unique users. we are very fortunate to have him with us today. please welcome the member of the european parliament, daniel hannan. [applause] >> think you very much for those generous words and the ladies and gentlemen i tell you it isn't something we are accustomed to as members of the year appeal of parliament. [laughter] we are generally not the most popular people. you don't have to contradict when i say that. i got used to it over the years. maybe it has something to do with the fact that none of you can vote for me. [laughter]

you won't find a politician in the united kingdom who is a bigger fan of jeffersonian democracy than me but i suspect in your third president occasionally enjoy being able to speak to an audience when nobody could vote for him and he didn't need to worry about what he said. we had an election a couple of months ago, a general election, and there is nothing like people casting their vote to remind an elected representative of the full diversity of wildlife whom he represents in his constituency. you're chairman knows what i'm talking about what he is too polite. i can see one or two state legislatures think in the same thing and they are also being too polite. i can't help but wonder in the eyes of the capitol former you know about capital in colorado, don't you? and he was delighted to have come across the member of the european parliament and he told

me this long involved story. he had spent a great deal of money on a pedigree bowl which apparently wouldn't to the business, they wouldn't serve any of them and then on the internet, he discovered this wonderful drug and banco the boy couldn't get enough of it and he was absolutely delighted and he was very alarmed to learn that the european parliament was going to ban the substance and i said let me look into that for you. what is the drug called. he said i can't remember what it's called but i can tell you it tastes of savannah seat. [laughter] >> so this is an extraordinary country. when i was researching this book i would be available to sign a debt 2:00, but i was doing a

little bit of primary research i found myself last year and addressing the republican committee of a rural county in the deep south and the committee members looked pretty much the way i would have expected the members of the republican committee of a rural county in the deep south to look there were sunburned and muscular, and one of them asked the question you were losing for a long time and now you're winning. what advice do you have for the gop. one of the mistakes it seems to be looking for outside one of the mistakes you made under the bridge presidency is you turn your back on the states' rights and of localism and study the power in the center running up huge deficits spending lots of money in washington and new struck down from euthanasia to single-sex unions and a kind of

shadow went through the room when i got to the bit about single-sex unions and i thought that was maybe not the right example to give to the republican committee of the county in the deep south. [laughter] and i finished and tecum to become an enormous randy b common with a red baseball cap and a big belly and he said i appreciate you coming. [laughter] i apologize to any southerner's your for this attempt. he said i agree with most of what he said, but i disagree with what you said about the so-called homosexual unions. here we go. he said my experience of being able to get married is one of the advantages i get as a man. [laughter] and i thought truly this is an astonishing country.

[laughter] every time you think you understood it surprises you, the diversity in the united states, the pluralism and the variety is what makes anti-americanism such the doctrine because it isn't like the country where all of mankind is represented as truly misanthropy. [laughter] let me say again what a huge pleasure it is to be in colorado. every time i come here i am struck by how intelligent and levelheaded and patriotic all people are in this rectangular stage. now let me say that i have and perhaps met a completely representative cross section of colorado. i've been here three times. the first was to speak to the independent institute in denver and the second time was to speak to the coke foundation and the third time is now so maybe i haven't met a completely

politically representative cross-section of colorado society. nonetheless, i think that there is something very attractive about the state and it's this: is an encapsulation of boiling down and the subjugation if you like of the things that make america special. americans came along way to find a particular lifestyle to get away from an intrusive government to find freedom and some of them went even further to be further from the government and those were the ones who came to the front and then designed the state constitution's around the maximum power. one of the things i find exciting but the geometrics tapes is the media to the emphasis on the procedures and balanced budget amendment and term limits and so on. this is politically as well as culturally and its saturation of the american policy.

i don't think it was a coincidence that in the novel atlas shrugged this was the last out of freedom in the united states. it was in colorado when it was defeated everywhere else. [applause] and i wanted to say a word about that political inheritance because when i was writing this book i traveled around a number of states but also to speak in the u.s. to congressmen and people on the left and right and journalists and think tanks and ordinary citizens and the same conclusion kept leaping out at me again and again. most americans do not realize how lucky they are you know, the political institution defined the country in many cases unique and almost all cases on usual. i'm talking about term limits, the recall mechanism, the citizens' initiative and referendum and states' rights

and localism, open primaries, totally unique feature but ones that make the largest leaders answerable to the rest of us, and above all i'm talking about the direct election of almost everybody. it's human nature to take for granted that which is familiar to us, but it's these institutions growing organically growing out of the constitution that has served to keep your government more and your people free. sometimes i say this and they say there are cultural differences. we are naturally liberal people. we got away from the monarchies and the collapse is into the old world and so on. i'm afraid that explanation does not quite work. culture is and from disembodied entities that exist alongside institutions. culture is a product of institutions.

if you changed your governing arrangement, if you had the same welfare state, government, the symbol for the apparatus in the state mechanism, the and the other parts of the western liberal you would see how quickly those aspects of american exceptional was some would disappear. the essence of this country is freedom. it was freedom that first called the pilgrims across the sea. freedom of course in the literal sense of wanting to be able to organize and worship as they saw fit without state intervention. but allied and bound up with that was the idea of the self-government free from the aristocracy on the soil of the new world the evolved institutions based on the self-government are bound the maximum devolution of power. so when the framers control the constitution they were not just working from the abstract, they

were encoding of the liberties that were very real to americans of that era. what happened in the old courthouse in philadelphia remains one of the miracles of political development. your constitution has lasted as long as it has because it did exactly the job that envisioned come serving to prevent the concentration power, to make sure that the rulers are accountable to the rest of it. no one is above the law, and that decisions are taken as closely as possible to the people they affect. some of you might be wondering why it is that i come here as a british story, patriotic british story who loves its country very dearly, and in the benefit -- the phrase of the country, the republicans after milbourne of the revolt. isn't it a curious thing that i'm here cruising your constitution when after all the

u.s. was the reaction against the british empire. didn't paul revere rales the nation with his cry of the british are coming? remind you know, he didn't. does anybody know what he actually shot? what he actually said was the regulars are out. can anybody tell me why it would have been pretty bizarre for him to have shouted the british are coming? right, it would have been a pretty unusual thing even in massachusetts they would have been all british. it would have been a very strange thing. [laughter] it would not have occurred to americans patronage or lawyer leal, but the way in which the story of paul revere has been written by historians on both sides i think is a very telling one because eight depends on editing, disregarding a lot of the arguments which your leaders were using at the time.

they never saw themselves -- they saw themselves as conservatives. all that they were asking for in their own mind was the freedom they assumed they had been born with as englishmen. the real revolutionary to them were those in the court who were seeking to unbound the constitution to subject the legislature to the executive to the taxes on the constitutional to impose laws that haven't been properly passed. and that's why if you go back to the foundational documents the main complaint in the declaration the crown was using foreign soldiers come on british. there was a lovely line for jefferson wanted to write the declaration that was edited out. he said we might have been a great and free people together. maybe we still will. this is more than academic or

historical interest. if your government turns his back on the origins, if they lack the humility to understand that they are passing through the institutions that are bigger than they are coming to jeopardize all of the benefit that came from that extraordinary political settlement. i was reading the word of summer in the 1930's where he makes the point, he said our freedoms were won by our ancestors on the battlefields in england. he said there's a straight line that runs from east to philadelphia and it's true. in running it in my constituency, the site where the sign went on mark on till the fifties there was no memorial, not so much as a plaque until a little memorial was raised by the american bar association. it remains the only monument at

the site. but if you have leaders who are fundamentally -- to put it has possible in paris, not hostile to this aspect of your heritage, if you have leaders willing to go around the world and apologize who don't see themselves as heirs to a continuing tradition who don't understand as your founders did that there simply one more link in the train that stretches back to the civil war and even between the great charter to anglo-saxon freedom is the notion that the law comes from the people rather than being imposed by the central states. you are bound to have the change in the balance of power within the united states. and that is more or less what is happening. he was making the argument in the 1930's arguing against the new deal, against the roosevelt

administration. he saw correctly that the outcome of the constitutional changes would be a permanent shift in power in favor of the executive. hall at the the same arguments apply today. when we've seen in the last couple of years the shifts in the jurisdiction from legislator to executive from the states to washington from the elected representative to the unelected upper got this from the citizen to the state. you're current administration policies are not a set of random initiatives slash garbage early together. the amount to a comprehensive program of european ideals. i was on a radio program recently on whether i had the idea of your president not being born in the u.s. could he possibly be born in kenya he was

plainly born in brussels. [applause] [laughter] he is pursuing on health care and welfare and college education and the taxes and cap-and-trade, nuclear disarmament, foreign policy, they are a comprehensive policy of taking the country that is different from western europe and making it more like everywhere else, exactly the point that charles, was making less light. let me tell you, my friend, i've been a member of the parliamentary 11 years. i am living in your future. to get from me, you are not going to like it. when you make the permanent shift in power away from the people and towards the federal bureaucracy, for heaven's sake, to get away from all these are fast. he would find you need your

country less prosperous, less space and less free. we would fall further behind. we should be ringing alarm bells here. in 1974 western europe accounted for 36% of world gdp. over the san period the share of the world gdp accounted for the u.s.'s remained today. what does that tell you. it tells me that if you go down this road towards the nationalization and bailouts to words and expanded states towards the right for the trade unions and regulation of private sector enumeration you will eventually make your economy smaller in a lot of terms in the short term on lunch breaks and

paternity leave and maximum for the dow were working weeks and all the rest of it, what's not to like? but in the end, reality and imposes it and you find either that doherty economy contracts or that you are sustaining it only through debt. and it is at this stage, my friend, that your problems become our problems. when i see you repeating our mistakes, when i see you sitting on the road that europe set out on after the second world war ii words higher taxes and towards more regulation, i don't just feel for you as a fellow english speaking allies, i also worry as a citizen of the world about what this is going to do to the balance of power in the world my children are going to grow up into the we are living at the end of a three or 400 year anglo

ascendancy. the world has been a brighter and happier place because of the hegemony of the english-speaking people. we have a great achievements that we shouldn't be ashamed 82 rushing to pass onto or children from the ending of slavery to the liberation of tens of millions from fascism and communism. there is nothing god-given about entitlement. the law of gravity are not going to be suspended and our favor if we pursue policies that make our nation's poor and weaker. since the credit crunch hit quoting ayn rand which are yearly act to the present discontent. he foresees his fall and they have his soul who has his bond.

which is like the writing on the wall. who has your bond now, who owns american debt now. i think the answer of that question and i tremble. let me quote some figures from the congressional budget office 2010 long-term budget outlook. by 2020, your government will be paying between 15 to 20% of its revenues and debt interest whereas defense spending will be down to between 14 to 16%. what does that mean in reality? last year the u.s. spent $665 billion on its military. the chinese standard of 99 billion. if beijing continues to buy american debt at the present rate, then five years from now the interest payments on your debt to china will be covering

whole of the chinese descent but should they choose to reach out and conquer taiwan, you, my friends, would have paid for it. now, all right. there's nothing you can do and nothing you should want to do about the economic rise of countries in asia if they have discovered hour western secret of the benefits of competition and dissolution and good for them. the bigger the markets the better for our exporters but there is something we can do about our own decline. there is no reason for us to carry on these policies of endless consumption without matching production. there is no reason for us to carry on in getting our children. and i think we as people understand this instinctively that we know it in our bones even if those who call ourselves political leaders seem not to. you know, i was amazed, just after the credit crunch hit two

years ago, by how quickly an intellectual and political consensus formed around the idea of the massive state intervention to bail out the stimulus packages. happened by chance during the conservative party conference, and i was i think the only british elected politician at that time who was opposed to the bailout. there are loads of them in retrospect to say that it doesn't work but there was one of those scary moments where it seemed almost unpatriotic to say we shouldn't be rushing to do something. it's one of those terrible something must be done moments and i remember having an argument with a senior member of my party and he said you are completely on your own on this, hannan, the opposition. well, maybe not alone, you and ron paul. but that's it. [laughter] two weeks later the first poll came out in britain and i was able to send this senior member of my party and e-mail with an attachment saying it turned out to be me and ron paul and 86% of

the british electorate. [applause] [laughter] because most people don't need convincing in the argument that government just like individuals have to live within their means. we all know from our own lives of your maxed out on your credit cards you rain in your spending, you don't spend more. you have to be an economist or a politician not to understand that. [laughter] and most people understand that it's wrong for the tax payers to be pressed into bailing out wealthy individuals in order to rescue them from the consequences. so we don't need to win the battle of ideas. if anything has tilted the argument in favor of the economics it is the event of the last two years but we do need to win the battle of implementation. here is the paradox of our age. we understand and anyone coming into the garden to understand as the previous generations have and how disastrous it is to keep spending money when you're not

making anything. and yet, public policy is for the than it's ever been from that objective and that is the challenge for you and what i hope is going to come out of this summit and make the case for. you still have a representative democracy and mechanisms to make your legislators accountable. you're open primaries and the tea party movement formed to make use of that system has become the process of creating a legislature dedicated to the fiscal. but that isn't an argument you wouldn't want, that is a constant continuing debate. once you take your foot off the accelerator you will see that the government naturally would begin to expand again. make no mistake about what is at stake here. it's not just prosperity, it is about the kind of world that we have taken for granted for these recent centuries, the world in which there is freedom and

constraint and which we expect the laws to be passed and taxes only with popular consent. the world has been fortunate indeed in its superpower. things could look blank with an alternative power as the world so that we close with a heartfelt implication from a british conservative who loves his country to american conservatives who still believe in there's. keep intact inheritance that you've gotten from your parents and pass it on securely to your children. on a division of your founders. respect the greatest constitution designed by human intelligence and never be afraid to speak to and support for the soul of the nation of which by good fortune and god's grace you are a privileged part.

[applause] [applause] >> time for questions and once again we will use the microphone. state your name, where you are from and we will alternate between the two and i will let mr. hannan -- >> will nds from colorado. what is your government thinking about or doing about the possible increase in population in the islamic culture and in the thinking about the future

islam taking over and electing people to your government? >> we already have a number of elected muslim counselors, and their opinions are different from those of the lunatics you hear on television because you wouldn't get elected in the united kingdom standing on a platform of targeting we should be more like iran. there is a reason why these people move into wasn't because they wanted to live under the sharia law but we do have a specific problem with some british-born blaze who've become so alienated from the country decor loved that an extreme cases they have been driven to take up arms against it. on the battlefield in afghanistan and pakistan we have rounded up dozens of british-born muslims. people asked what is it that could have alienated the products of the british welfare state and these kids that have

grown up in britain with all of their care looked after what could have pushed them into this position of belligerence and hostility? the clue is the question. it is precisely their dealings with of the british welfare state that taught them to despise the country. if they got any history at all in english schools it would have been presented to them as a hateful, call racism and exploitation. when they find the indigenous country men scorned and when they see the elite of the country are giving that the nation's state is finished and we should all be europeans now that the united kingdom is a discredit the concept how does that help them fit him? it has no coincidence seeing the british as the brand scorned in this way that some of the native people at the united kingdom

started going backwards towards the identities of the english or whatever. but what does that leave the child of immigrants? what is there for him to be part of? and this is the point for the prime minister in his speech three weeks ago in munich. the problem hasn't been what immigrants coming and demanding that we change everything. the problem has been inside the government sector who have the vested interest in fostering differences. in the local government we have these armies of racism and awareness and interpreters and outreach consultants and cultural diversity titres. they're the people whose jobs would disappear if assimilation became a reality. and as written it is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends upon not understanding. that's the target of the prime minister. i've got to tell you this may come as a surprise to some of

you and i know it's not what you durell reza this meeting at these kind of meetings, but i have not had a single muslim constituent who had been other than approving of what david cameron said. it seems to them obvious they shouldn't be giving money to the organizations that reject democracy and women's rights and equality before the law. that is as we would sit on my side of the atlantic a statement of the pretty bloody obvious. [laughter] that anyone found it shocking, the extraordinary thing is we got the stage for the pri minister had to stand up and say that it was a bad idea to use the taxpayers' money to foster the division. there is a lesson for you, my friends, there is one of the things your country has been very, very good at is likely is making people feel part of the common dream and nation. typically warm and optimistic phrase that ronald reagan used when he set it free immigrant makes america a more american.

what a great and wonderful way of encouraging people to settle in. you know if you go around the world of publicizing, if you turn your back on the things that made this country strong and great and free and drove your father to extend the version of freedom, you make it much harder for the newcomers to assimilate. we have called on almost too late. don't repeat our mistakes. yes? >> david carlson, class of 2010. how many do we have out there? okay. thank you for taking the trip across the pond to be here today. my question is rather straightforward. i lived in holland for one year and holland and i have socialized medical care. i've lived under the socialist government and systems, and it's very clear to me that it's not the best system. but i would like to ask you what

we can do to inform people in the united states that keep hearing over and over the the british medical system is better than here, that the canadian system is better than here and the cubin system is better than here, and these people -- we soak it up here and we just believe what we read and i have to look at people and say i live there, i know what it's like and it's not superior to the system here and freedoms we have in this country and i hate to see us moving in that direction so in a practical level fisa would give would be appreciated. >> once you have done this, you will find it almost impossible to go back. it will take over the political system and you will find as we found that it's become almost beyond criticism. so if you're planning to repeal, you do it right now, the idea -- [applause] whether you can see if it works out and come back i tell you that is and what works and i tell you why.

you're specific question book, and free health care system of the world you have good and bad outcomes in every system of the world of good and bad people. but there is no system in the world that is perfect and the danger is people talk only because we are all human beings, the top from personal experience but if you look at the measure double data comedy in critical evidence, survival rates, waiting time, longevity you can make a comparison and see our system, the british system based on the government monopoly isn't the worst in the industrialized world but it's pretty bad. and we are on most measures behind some countries not nearly as wealthy as we are and how likely you are to survive a heart attack and cancer. on those measurable things we do badly and actually the current government is taking steps to

try to make the system a little bit more responsive, but here's the thing it is almost impossible to make that argument because any criticism of the system is held down as an attack on the people who work in it and simply to say what i've said which i said before in this country and my own is immediately to invite the response from the left and health care union to say you are attacking our hard-working doctors and nurses will of course i'm not doing that. we have many decent patriotic hard-working people who are doing their best in the system that doesn't maximize their potential. far from attacking, i'm not even attacking the lazy ones. all i'm saying is we could do better, and in terms of innovation and out come, you are on your way to carry on on this road towards the system you will be unhappy with but once politicians become personally

responsible for everybody that is lobbying on the trolleys for want of a dead, not only would you not be able to reform it you won't be able to pick up the budget so i hope he thought this through because there will be no going back. >> good morning, john andrew sum sentinelle institute. we hear about the fiscal crisis of greece, ireland and other countries around the periphery of the european union. from your standpoint as the parliamentarians, how much is that going to affect the continuation of the whole project, the hero is a common currency and the appetite of the british people to further integrate with eurith? >> well to take the last bit, the only have it in britain for close integration comes from a handful of politicians, diplomats and big corporations no ordinary person who doesn't have stayed and supports it. it is to get a referendum because there is such a mismatch between public opinion and

political opinion. two-thirds of the people want to leave the union and that is what happens when you don't have the primaries. it's obvious what should happen. what this crisis has proved is that you cannot apply a single monetary policy to the widely divergent economies. is exactly what those of us who oppose the bureau are predicting what would happen, and it's come to pass. so what should happen is we should allow the peripheral countries to leave the monetary union, to print their own currency, again, to suit their monetary policy to their own interest and needs. unfortunately, that is not what is happening. because that is the default assumption is that the answer is

always more europe would avert the question with the answer is there is always more europe. is it doing badly? more in europe, the revolution, give up. more europe. [laughter] and of course there is a logical flaw because they are saying the european integration has failed so let's have more of it. because monterey union has been a disaster let's have the fiscal and economic union as well. i suppose in the one sense they are indicating what the skeptics argue from the beginning. we always said this could only work if they took away the national democracy of the member state and had a single system of government. john keynes argued that he who controls the currency controls the country. i promise that is going to be the only time that i quote him approvingly either today or any -- never mind. let me give you a much better source than john maynard keynes. let me refer you to matthew

chapter 2. whether it is proper to pay taxes to rome what does he say? why tempt me tikrit, showed the tribute money. and they brought on and jesus said on to them who is this image in superscription they answered him jesus. then jesus said render them the things which are ceaseless and on to god the things which are god. before you conclude by completely lost my mind i'm not arguing our lord is on one side with the other on the argument of the euro. [laughter] the point of the story is when he was looking to identify the supreme source of the temporal power, the one absolute symbol of the government control he pointed to the economic policy isn't some issue ministers could amount to in their fair time governing is the central business of the modern state and

if that power passes from the 27 nations of europe to the institutions of the e.u. and the bureaucrats who run them we have given away our democracy. >> the colorado springs. i lived for two years in the u.k. and i can attest what you say about the respective things are given, the american experiment was worth repeating elsewhere and ideas flow back and forth across the atlantic. the leadership wants to be more europe, people as you are seeing are rising up against that. in the u.k. you just had a conservative government. where are you going with that? are you going to get less welfare state? benet we are making sensible welfare reform. that is the single best thing the government is doing but the government has run up again and again against the reality of the

treaty obligations. it finds that even the smallest domestic reforms turn out to be against some directives or another. so last week, david cameron had this big idea the one thing he said he wants to be remembered for which he calls the big society and will be familiar in the future to an audience like this is not any specifics, his idea is there is a state and st and the individual that the civic society and churches and charities and so on and they should be doing the things the government is currently doing. we all agree with that conservative libertarian. he was going to fund the transition to the big society by using the money that has gone unclaimed in bank accounts for i think 25 years or something. it's forgotten, just standing there and currently isn't doing anything. the day before he announced the policy he was told that there was against the law. my point is not that you should

or shouldn't be able to access the bank accounts. it is what the devil does this have to do with the european union? how did that come across the border issue? and this is what we have come up against again and again. i discovered the other day that i am obliged by the e.u. to keep my children in car seats when i drive them down until they reached the age of 12. i've been looking forward to discarding the yogurt encrusted that are faced than that. the car seat, not of the children. [laughter] some of you might think that makes me in a responsible data point is whether how did it ever become an international question of the e.u. to decide on and impose uniform of the half a million people. not even your federal ones and in europe it's decided that international level and that is the basic problem more than 80% of our laws are coming from

brussels from people that nobody has voted for. this is the opposite of the constitutional baster not the personal power, freedom of the citizen and maximization of the democracy on which it is based. the line one of the opening treaty of rome and the ever closer union of the centralization of power. i look forward to the day when it becomes an independent country and we have a vote on this and on the confident my countrymen will reestablish their sovereignty and i look forward to reforming a closer and non-governmental genuine and organic union with the other english-speaking people. when we looked at the greatest threat to freedom of the last few hundred years and who descends it is the same countries whose names come up again and again, united states, united kingdom, canada, australia. and that to me, that is a

genuine union based upon speech, law, history and affinity, not on the government or treaties or trade. i feel we would be a much happier people what we discovered our global and ancient friendship with you. [applause] >> steve burton and i confess having spent nine months in the u.k. and the nhs hospitals as a student seeing some of the open words. but that isn't my question. at the moment the dollar is still primarily the world's primary reserve currency but the rate we are printing them that

may not last much longer. what kind of currency might you see as the world's reserve currency if the dollar is dethroned. >> i would like to see a commodities currency. we have had 40 years of the currency and inflation and a decline. [applause] whether that is likely to happen i don't know. our bank of england is now plainly per serving as a matter of the liberal policy, the only way that they can he rode the debt incurred by the government. and there is something fundamentally dishonest allowed to doing that but is the behavior we have seen from every government in the west over the past 40 years. i was reading a lecture a couple of weeks ago called how to stop inflation. and in his first paragraph he said something, look, i'm going to talk publicly about how you settle the argument, how you can persuade people to pursue the alternative policy but let me

tell you how to control inflation you stop the printing press, like that. it's the easiest thing in the world and if there were one thing i would do in this country it would be that, stop the press cost of borrowing money, stop making things. yes. [applause] >> from denver and austin texas. my question is whether or not the federal government, which cherishes and admirers the power can possibly be expected to run a foreign policy which you would hope can support the american experiment and said support for example the strong central regime in baghdad at the extent of the autonomy. >> governments don't generally do things well today? >> they aren't good at running airlines or making cars, they were not very good at installing telephones or running hospitals or schools, and even the things they more or less have to do, such as controlling exports externals policy you could make them do it better if they were

more accountable, more space, more in tune with public opinion. what are the best foreign policies for the u.s.? the one you're founders envisioned. lead by moral example. show people the success of your system so they want to emulate it. it's really cheap and it doesn't involve invading anybody. [laughter] and it's what your current president said on the night he won, he made one of his typically uplifting speeches. he said we've shown our strength is not in the armies or resources, but it is in our system, our democracy and hope to read and i hope he acts on that. one thing you can be doing now in the things katie was talking about in the middle east is you can show ka people a better alternative. you cannot beat yourself popular by emulating that more perspective when you perform them. [applause] last one. >> my name is mike and dandridge

we did in 2008 and i and from our rot and i have one quick question from you. what sort of goals and aspirations do you have for yourself going forward? do you have any other high your aspirations where you are currently at in the government or do you plan on stepping up high year or anything like that? >> on the contrary nothing would make me happier than to abolish my job. to have a situation where there are no british members because the united kingdom has left to the european union. i may have to impose a term limit on myself, but the best would be the abolition of the assembly. let me if i may just digress briefly on this. i had the great privilege at the end of last year of visiting ronald reagan's ranch outside of santa barbara. i would really recommend it. it's run by the young america's foundation and as i went around

that little house i thought with every step, my respect for this man is increasing. in my job i go to a number of politicians houses, and usually there are reminders and pictures of the guy with a pope or the queen or whatever, gifts from visiting statesmen and by important people. in ronald reagan's ranch, there is no hint that this was the home of the leader of the free world for eight years. nothing political about it. the shower head is the liberty bell. that is the only political personnel. [laughter] but he had his own telegraph poles that he saw himself and painted himself and i thought this is exactly the kind of politician the founding fathers envisioned. he couldn't wait to get back from governing writer down on his ranch.

margaret thatcher visited and love that, that the basic character of the little ranch reflected it. gorbachev hated it. he couldn't understand how anyone could. you remember the picture of his wearing his cowboy hat the wrong way around. [laughter] head of the greatness he didn't want to be there. he couldn't wait to get back to read all of the quotes were so popular my favorite one was i never drank coffee at lunchtime. it keeps me awake in the afternoon and i thought isn't that, isn't that what you want from every politician? [laughter] he was visited once by a liberal journalist. she couldn't believe how basic it was. it wasn't her idea of how republicans ought to live and she said to him incredulously

what is the attraction? and in that wonderful way he added the surrounding california high land and he quoted i will lift up on to the hills. that's what you need, my friend from somebody modest enough to understand in government you are passing through institutions bigger than you are. [applause] ..

>> next, a forum on how courts deal with high profile cases in digital age. panelists syncrude federal judges who presided over the california case on same-sex marriage is and regarding teaching intelligent design in schools. from the arizona state university, water contrite school of journalism, this is a little more than an hour. >> thank you. will deflect. will deflect will probably go a little over the 2:45, will probably go a little over the 2:45, but willow was so be cognizant of your need for a break. having the pain of red after lunch is never the primetime, so will make sure that we get you a break here in new worker. i would like to introduce their panelists. i'm not going to take a lot of time. we have a solar panel with us.

let me start in the middle with elizabeth or betsy paret, the circuit executive at the u.s. court of appeals for the d.c. circuit, a longtime court administrator and also has first hand experience in the frontlines of several high visibility cases, including the terrorism case where she was the clerk in the eastern district of virginia. to my immediate left we had judge john jones, u.s. district court for the middle district of pennsylvania. he was confirmed back in july july 2002. he has had several notable cases, the best known for the landmark case kitzmiller versus dover area school district, where he found it on comp additional to require teaching intelligent design in public schools. we have judge walker with a gui heard firm and with a great

presentation. judge walker interceded recently retired. is that correct? [laughter] recently retired. >> not quite. [inaudible] >> well, that's a good thing. i will. i'll be on my guard. judge walker is the reputation of being media friendly. we heard his presentation. most notably he had the property case that we heard about. and finally, pete wade sues the justice news correspondent since the early 90s was press official in various capacities for a number of years. all of these people are highly equated with high visibility cases and that's what we're going to talk about today. high visibility cases in the digital age.

now been the digital age, i was following people tweeting premiere this morning as i was sitting in the back row following the hash tag and one of the treats was who the heck is in this audience anyway? that was one of the tweet. i know by looking at here we have judges, court staffers and lawyers. so i don't want to take a lot of time because we are short on time. let me shortcut is. how many fewer journalists or journalism students out there? so we do have a few. all right. good. well, we've been talking all day today about the concept of new media. and let me just start off with saying a couple of things myself. i think this term is a moving target. what new media means and what it means in relationship to the

judiciary. we've talked about new media, but if in fact -- if i had my students here, undergraduate journalism student and i used the term new media, they would look at me like i was in the dark ages. new media is no longer new media, folks. it's been around for 20 years. it's coming you know, maybe 15 years. but we have to decide -- my students would call it digital media. they call it social media, but they certainly wouldn't use the term new media. but i think we have to look at what new media means. is it -- does it mean just the technology or is it really a new approach to assembling and distributing news and information? i think that is something that we really need to define. and i don't think that we have

so far. so maybe my panel can help with this. i think the overriding message today though is that we are living in an environment that is changing. we are living in a changing media environment. and if you really look at it, the media landscape has changed more in the last five years, certainly in the last 10 years senate did in the previous 60 years. it is constantly on the move so far so fast that my journalistic colleagues can't even keep up with that, let alone people in other areas of public life and certainly in the judiciary. we tell our students and they come in that the technology they use when they graduate probably hasn't been invented yet. the company they work for probably doesn't exist.

that is how fast things are going, yet we are trying, i think, in the judiciary, if i can put my judicial hat on for a moment, we are trying to play catchup. so really what we want to look at his new media, however we define it in this digital age of mobility and news as conversation and news that you can use, when you want it, where you want to do and how want to come to the impact on our cases. in the first question i want to pose to our panel is what constitutes a high visibility case? i know some facts are so obvious, the property case or perhaps even the intelligent design case. we've seen high visibility cases come out of this this we see peterson case, one that i thought was a fairly typical

albeit lawyered murder case that we see in courts all over the country all the time. yet it drove ratings for months and months. so what constitutes a high visibility case? with that i would go to judge jones first. >> i attempted to see in the answer to that is what attracts the obscenity definition. i can't exactly define it, but i can tell when one is coming and there are a myriad of fact is that going to bed appraisal in a particular case that she can see and feel and particularly in however we did find media and new age, the blogosphere, the online services and so forth. it's somehow counterintuitive, a

case that might otherwise be a local homicide case because of certain aspects of the case. they think their cases cases you can flatly be sensational and kerner media attention. others really spring out of nowhere because of some cultural aspect of the case for something that catches committee that the public with immediacy and see. it's hard to have a cookie-cutter for high-profile cases. >> i think there are four different types. they were at the issue high-profile cases, prop eight, intelligent design case with the paradigm examples of this kind. you have the celebrity type of

hope right for cases. barry bonds come in the that might colic is going to begin training shortly and nicole smith's various proceedings. you have to sensational -- o.j. simpson with the an example of those. you have to sensational cases for event or crime or circumstances arisen that is highly unusual. the scott peterson case is an example. the chandra leavy case would be an example. then you have those with a political dimension, the estes case i spoke about would be an example. what was really driving that case was lyndon johnson connection. and there probably are some other types, but i think there are at least those four types in the dynamics differ a bit with each. >> let me ask you the following.

maybe you've answered in your last comment. the u.s. adjudge treat all of those cases in the same manner where do you have different categories? >> well, i think these are the categories in the way you would do it them would be quite different because of the issues he would confront me be different. you have a different dynamic in a case that's going to be tried in a jury and as i mentioned in the presentation, the ninth circuit rule or the ninth circuit proposal would allow broadcasts and nonjury civil trails, but not criminal trials and not jury trials. you have problems of management in a jury trial that don't exist in a civil trial and in a non-jury trial.

that is one jury distinction. >> i know that you probably take judge jones definition that they know a high visibility case than they need one, but it seems like what we are seeing more and more these days are what would normally be regional or a locally high visibility case being picked up by media dateline or some other program and on the sudden becoming a national phenomenon. we've had a case in ohio where the defendant had his own website and had witnessed is actually in third trial of the first with the guilty verdict and the third trial had witnesses one from california, one from new york could take to defend dateline, gone to the

website and actually had conversation. so we had what was a local case of moderate interest all of a sudden have national viability. >> there has to be some characteristic that attracts a national audience. it's always been true whether it's a mother who kills her own children or someone accused of negligence that causes a big fire and killed a lot of people. the only thing i do to judge walker's sisters terrorism cases. i'm not sure we put the pretty made off whether it be sensational or wet, but there are these cases. the definition to mean is one that i don't know if i'm going to get to see in the courthouse because so many are going to show up for it. two treated journalistically differently? >> no, i don't think so, the fact that i get to cover it. there's a lot of trails i don't

get to cover. as a network, nbc nightly news tends to put on only very high-profile cases. there's a lot of trails that go on. but ted stevens case recently was when we did a lot of stories on them. today programs have a somewhat more interest in some of the other categories that you mentioned. they may be interested in some of the current cases and that kind of thing. we tend to approach them pretty much the same way. the same challenge for us. >> betsy, we don't want to ignore you. you have the probably terrible job of having to coordinate a high visibility case. talk about that a bit. >> from an administrator's perspective, we know the high-profile, when they call up on the phone out of the blue and start asking questions about

this case we've never heard of. for us, we are processing cases we don't really pay attention and all this and we get inundated with phone calls, start having people asking our staff posters of questions that we start getting questions about, are we going to have a seat in the courtroom? is there any more in the pressroom? are there things we can do to prepare for this they are? and one of the things you have to take into account is making sure we are treating all of these journalists fairly and equally in making sure everybody will have access with technology, whether it's new or old, has made that a thousand times easier from a court administrator. >> it's funny. i've been at the judiciary for 20 years. the first 10 years since the district court in d.c. as of hope right both cases they appear at the big if everybody would be running to the copiers because you had to copy these

opinions and hand them out in the clerks office. with the advent of e-mail and the advent of websites and the advent of cnbc filing lipservice and now you've got rss feeds, twitter, we can do everything faster now and no paper is involved. >> for the digital age in new media we have been designing makes it easier for you? not harder? >> now, much, much easier. in terms of having a better understanding of what's going on, were able to put the exhibit better introduced itn trial on the website so everybody has everything. i mean, the question then hanging around loitering at the clerk's office doesn't exist anymore because everybody has access to everything online. >> the only thing i would ask is

that every of new media, old media, fresh media, whatever category you want to call it, for reporters, the challenges haven't changed and that is access to the courtroom. we'll have a seat in the courtroom and i get there? and access to the documents and all the filing. i think -- i've been through a couple cases that they see us manage manage. i'm always glad to know she's managing the case because i know it will work very well. just to give you quick example. what she did in the ted stevens case with the states of virginia and maryland in the d.c. sniper case as well is to send out an e-mail saying ok, we'll have this trial thing. you ought to cover, let us know. that gives the court an idea of how many people will show a period of them in planning committee to have an overflow courtroom or not? credential you, i like that because what i don't want to do is find out that i couldn't get in because for people from cbs in the past and three people from the "washington post" had a

pass. trying to enforce that one to a customer role. in showing a little flexibility because i will start the day out in the courtroom. but if the case is going to go till 5:30, i can't start writing at 5:30, when i go on an hour later. so i want to swap my seat out for somebody else in the afternoon and they have a way of doing that. so access is terribly important to me, knowing i want to be in the courtroom. if they can't, i'll go to the overflow courtroom. you see it so much in the courtroom itself. access to documents has changed, but not nearly enough. i took some at the administrative office to revise in some cases really good and in some cases really pathetic sights. but you know, some of the rules that just came out for the administrative office are still little baffling. for example, according to the administrative office, all apc

website for a court is supposed to be actual pacer site, we look at the documents. the course website come you satisfy rule set for opinions you just have a link to the pacer site. some courts have opinions when they come out. some courts have opinions the next day. some courts have only high-profile case opinions. there is a large profile there. brittany mentioned rss feeds come in the ability to go win a track a specific case. attracting the property case or an example right now. i'm trying to watch the silence here in arizona in the jared lost their case. so there's maybe 10 or 12 or 15 case is that i'm very interested in it what you see every filing. so what i have to do as i start my day and i go to the arizona website and i go into pacer and c. is still at 89, ok. is there a way to have a little e-mail sent out, whenever there is a new fad, that would be

tremendously helpful. you did it in your case. but i asked the arizona -- asp arizona clerks company do that? no i'm sorry, we don't do that. that's one thing that would be tremendously helpful. a little e-mail of the time there's a new filing. in a case like yours camilla travis at the wall because you get 30 or 40 a day. still, that's fine with me. >> what do you think it did to us? [laughter] >> so, the other thing i noticed in the rules sent out is that notable case information is down in the bottom tier of the useful information to consider. if not the top tier of required for highly recommended. so from a reporter's consumer standpoint, i think pacer has a long way to go. and finally, to the judges from the courts of appeal, however varied in quality the district court websites are, the federal court of appeal websites are

generally pretty terrible. there are some great exceptions, but they are generally not very hopeful. in the pacer site that the courts of appeal used is vastly confusing. you get a different result if you click on the name of the case as opposed to the docket number of the case. it takes you down all these little funny byways and highways. so i would hope that that is one place where life can be done by the courts. >> i can't tell you how important it is to people like a seat doing what she has done, trials she's handled. for a lot of courts, not in d.c., nikes to high-profile cases. our clerks arrive without a template to handle in the largest case that i handle as does mention the intelligent design case. we had to grab things from other best practices and there really wasn't a model for us to use.

interpeak point about media access, i finally get over to another deputy clerks, a great deputy clerk who figured it out. we started with the cherry for the press in the jury box. and then it came to pass that we have multiple representatives from one particular outfit. and then we had to figure out how we're going to do it. i was the joe court of appeals on the court couldn't figure out where to see people sketch artists and so forth in the courtroom. as a trial judge, you have enough to do when you're in the middle of this, without having to make those determinations. and i think court have to get smart very quickly unless you're used to these high-profile cases, which come right down the pipeline one by one. but i can't overstate how important it is to have, because

of the somewhat limited resources we have in the federal court, good clerks offices who can handle these things in grad best practices from across the united states as we figure out how to handle these cases and not disenfranchise the press can give everybody appropriate access and make sure there's appropriate coverage as is desired obviously. >> were you surprised at the interest? were you surprised at the level of media? >> i thought i was prepared, but i was sent. i guess i was surprised and i joke that as i was waiting to take the bench in the first day, my deputy kept running in and out of chambers. she would go into the courtroom as the corporate begin to fill out. she would say to me, you like to see it out there. you can't imagine what's going on out there. after the fourth trip by seth

lives, you are really not helping me at all by saying that. and so, yeah, it was surprising, but i guess i shouldn't have been surprised on the other hand. >> judge walker, how much of a distraction is it for you to be involved in logistics of this? or do you get the logistics to someone else and you try to say apart from that? how do you handle that? is it different now digitally than it was a few years ago? >> taking the first question, what i have found the most helpful was trying to delegate as much as possible to other people in the court administration. unfortunately, i'm blessed with some extremely able individuals who are able to do much of the work in new interface with the

media. and did all of the things i think that we've described today. so i did not have any unusual degree of administrative burden when conduct in the proposition 8 case or an another high-profile case that preceded it, although obviously in a quite different schedule and that is the cases above above international security aviation wiretapping services. but the impact on a judge in a case like this is really much more personal than it is administratively. and you have a pressure brought to bear on you in these cases that simply don't exist in ordinary cases. because you realize the extent to which you are being scrutinized in the proceedings are being scrutinized and you of course are attempting to conduct an inappropriate way, consistent

with the law and appropriate procedures. if so, there is a pressure that a judge feels in these cases that simply does not exist in what you might describe as a migrant case. >> i absolutely agree. and to reiterate, you have quite enough to do without worrying about some of these logistical issues. and it's amazing to me how things are accelerating because i tried the case i spoke about five years ago -- over five years ago. it we did not have any requests to, for example, plaque in the courtroom. i suspect that i would've had dozens in the case had been tried last year. so we are moving at light speed and it requires clerks offices to be absolutely cutting edge in

terms of recognizing the various technologies in the methodologies used by the media. it really is breathtaking and it requires the federal judiciary to stay on top of these things so that we can give these tools to not just federal judges, the clerks offices too. there's no shortage on how to profile cases from taxi time obviously. and we are going to need these templates to put it to grab it in future cases. >> betsy, we heard about pete wants to have his seat in the courtroom and make sure it better in all of these things that he is a member of the established media are the legacy media at nbc news certainly feels entitled to. how do you balance that with the blogger? the citizen journalist?

we such as cats and figures scoring were pretty astounding to what he decides his regular bloggers. how do you weigh those of access issues? >> and never came out. blogging wasn't that big when the trial started. in 2006. but it did come up with the libya trial and the senator stevens trial. and in d.c., what ended up happening was because of the interest, with the courtroom in their roles for the courtroom. no electronic devices at all. there is no overflow courtroom to extort. i'm the first lord of the courthouse, there's a media center and it has four large screens endovascular shots from the court room units of the charge, the lawyers and the

witnesses and then the exhibit coming up. and the media center, reporters, bloggers, they have their laptops and there's a wi-fi connection and they are real-time reporting what is going on in the courtroom. and we had a media center was the more popular than actually to let courtroom because reporters were able to file their stories and bloggers were providing all sorts of colorful analysis about things that may be traditional media would cover it, which made for, i think a lot of people following the story checking the "washington post," but also checking out lockers because they were reporting on the mood in the room, that the clock stopped into its representatives of the. [laughter]

time stood still. and there were some funny moments that came out of that, that really gave people a much better sense of what was going on in the case, as if you were in the courtroom. so it worked out great and the responses have been wonderful from all of the judges. so in a high-profile case to miss playing out in d.c., and the media center always be there can be used. >> not every court has a media center. and pete, you're not going to be a very happy man if some unknown blogger gets your seat. >> first of all, when i heard you say the term citizen journalist, i was reminded of john hewitt at cbs news is that citizen journalists, citizen for insertion, what's the difference? [laughter] but even for those of us steam driven user can nation, times

have changed for us, too. when i came 17 years ago, there was no msnbc cable network. the high-profile trial is a lot of interest in a tug in polls between the type to have every half hour, every hour. and that he was to come i can't find out what's on the courtroom, so there's always a tug and pull on that. secondly, there was no msnbc.com, which is one of the most popular sites for news. so you know, were expected to file for those. my colleague, tony, stats about how life is different for him. >> describe how life is different. >> i sit next to robert burns from the "washington post" and he's a closet sized booth is next to mine. hideous to be one of the decision came down he would take us time i read a a story, file it at around 4:00 or 5:00 in the afternoon, they would edit it

and be in the paper. now he's expected to quickly throw something on the "washington post" website. this is true for all of my newspaper colleagues, whether it is adam liptak from "the new york times" or tony, so some of us air broadcasters have always been the necessity to file something quickly 34 years ago would have been radio, that we found out about something and the precourt. even for as old-fashioned as commander smart pressure to file more often during the day. but you are right. getting a seat in the courtroom is pretty hard to report on what happens if you're not sitting inside, which brings me to transcripts. [laughter] there was a great service for a while. as a matter of fact to mobius to the lectern in the saudi case. if we couldn't be there that day, for some reason, in the long trail you look at the witnesses and their sundays he won't be on the air there's no real need to be there. there is a service you could get the transcript every day of any

big trail in the country. and it went like gangbusters for about five years and then it folded. but that's another thing for courts to think about. we have gone through this long protracted and i think ultimately successful battle with the u.s. supreme court. we can now get the transcript of work argument to the court. ready for this? the same day. now, used to be up for one of the transcript the same day, we would be in together and cough up enough money to go to the reporting service and pay them and it would come to us at the astonishingly early 6:00 p.m. now, the court has actually authorized us to get an unofficial transcript at about 1:00 in the afternoon for oral argument that ends at 11:00, the first argument to the day. we could see a rough draft at

1:00, tremendously helpful. transcripts can be extremely useful. and i watched some of these folks with life on trials or send wife treats. i wonder to myself, how do they take notes? obviously their tweets become their notes, but a treat is hardly comprehensive. >> so i think it would be helpful to get transcripts were easily. >> george washington come here looking questioning. >> i'm questioning how to do that. >> we've got trail transcripts every day. >> a person was doing real-time reporting and at the end of the session with a blow to this company and anyone could get the morning session within an hour. it was expensive, but then you

got the real-time transcript that afternoon, so basically it was daily. >> one of the things same hearing that the results of our combination is however you want to define it is reason the bar and the internet as far as the media see to have greater expect patience of immediacy, would you agree with that? >> one of the things that was funny was judge franklin and i had a practice that when there was an order she would send it to the lawyers first and then within 10 minutes we would post it on the website. well, one of the voyeurs leaked it to cnn. and so, all of the reporters reminded us because they had a 10 minute leave. we told the judge and from that point forward, the lawyers got

it 60 seconds before we hit the website so nobody got it before anybody else because that is a huge -- >> that's an eternity now and the competitive world. >> and media see doesn't always equate to accuracy, which you agree with? >> yes, i would say seldom. >> it takes a little time to figure out what a court order said. if you know what's coming and you are prepared for it and you know that the judge who granted or denied or it's going to be affirmed or reversed and you are well prepared. as soon as it goes out, you know what to say and then you can go back and fill in details. sometimes it's an order comes out of the blue and you're not ready, it does take a while to think about what it says. >> one of the things we found

very helpful in the propositioning case was to give lawyers advance notice of when an order is coming out. so they would be prepared to make comments. they will have read they will say whatever it is they are going to say we have no problem >> we had final decision fanout to the lawyers with the proviso they were three or four hours initiative is out of this on the air, except for that experience, i think it a hopeful practice to at least give the lawyers at days advance notice. >> we in the intelligent design case give 48 hour notice that i was about to file my decision

and that decision was filed with the month, six weeks after the trial had concluded that we thought it was an appropriate courtesy to allow the media to gather, to do what they needed to do. we knew they would come back to the district in many cases to want to have access to the parties and do follow-ups on the decision came out. we thought that worked very well , while the rows to harrisburg were clouds and turbines before it the decision came down. i didn't think that was a courtesy to extend and that was sort of the capstone of the media experience that we have. i can understand why that would work in every case, but it seemed to work nicely in mind.

>> either way, speaking of websites and access to decisions, i am competing, msn, with members of the public does not drive no greater access to a court room than anyone else to get a seat in the courtroom and sometimes certain seats will be set aside in some for everybody else. the same is true kidding -- it's a bigger problem getting access to the website because when everybody knows i'm sitting in front of the camera when i need to prop eight cases coming and were fresh in the website every 30 seconds and it just froze. the website, the backup website, the people were watching to call every lawyers to e-mail the decision if you have it and found one of the e-mails, but the website will completely go out. yes, sir, the pacers site which would've served so well at the

moment -- at the big moment is still asleep and got very tired. and this is a problem because they've not only now competing with my other colleagues who are sitting and waiting to file something quickly, but everybody else in the state of california and elsewhere who is interested. so there's another dimension to this access issue. >> a doctor when the moussaoui trial was over, evidence introduced was posted on the courts website and there's a lot of video, which was a huge bandwidth taken up and slowing things down and it crashed because everybody was so interested in wanting to see certain tings introduced. one of the lessons learned and i'll share this with the court colleagues is when there is something like that and you're concerned the court's website will crash that have google posted work out an arrangement

with the really big powerful server company, somebody who can sort of post about one particular thing so it doesn't crash. >> i'm interested in following up your insert to my question is immediacy that sometimes opposed accuracy. in a way, we heard howard talking this morning that he was live blogging from the courtroom. we have all this technology that now allows us to have greater immediacy as a service to take a breath, to study, to look at something and then go with that. >> or somebody in my name for it. i'll get back to you later.

it's never an answer they want to hear. i guess it's part of a -- part of a balanced diet, diet are. you know, there are days when you want to know what should walker do. td strike at downer not? and then tomorrow morning ability of "the l.a. times" analysis company or times, which it discussed on "nightline." but that the moment, getting the word out quickly is very important. >> there aspects to the trial to take a while to get into the weeds and subtleties of what they said in the decision that's very, very important. >> one of the things we did was because of the verdict, it is very complicated and they gave topics at the blake verdict form to all of reporters, so other reporters had a chance to really study and no if he was guilty of

what it all meant, so we knew who was lost with the answer was. then you could spend time talking about nuances of the various detailed part of the verdict. >> the ninth district, the judicial corruption trial just concluded and very difficult occasion involving juveniles when was tried in front of my colleagues in the verdict came down while we were eating lunch. i like many more consumers checked in the local newspaper and watched as the accounts came down, read and that's what people want to see. that's what i wanted to see. and there will be time for the sidebar articles that analyze what the real result is coming guilty to both counts under 39

count, what are the ramifications come out of the defendant react what are the comments and so forth. it's been ingrained now that we want the instant gratification and we want to know if the jury is -- a judge or the jury for a person is reading verdicts on individual accounts. i don't think their exclusive, but i think they exist, given, again, the new media and what we expect of the media today. >> your questions are more important. let's go to you now. >> i joined the district of corolla eddo and 97, 98, we had to trial. one of the things we were concerned with normalizing

operations for the rest of the accord because all the arrests and other trials and cases of the litigant and we normalize as much as possible. i would just be curious how the judge could have more recent high profile trials and impact on the balance of the court to these, which one would argue are just as important as the hope argyle trials, even before the news media. >> again, the question -- comment was in high visibility of trials going on in dominating so much attention. how does the rest of the court in the high-profile manner so it's not totally disrupt to the court operations. >> who wants to go without? >> i think that in my court,

because it's a fairly small court, the members of my court, collegial as they are, understood there would be some disruption, but we had some logistical issues just in terms of space, overfull courtrooms, but everybody accommodated me during the time of my trial, which was about six weeks in duration. we rotate courtrooms occasionally and i would camp out a lot of high-tech before retrofitting the courtroom and needed a high-tech courtroom that we utilize for the case. there was no small amount of interest by my colleagues as well and frequently laypersons ask, they say, well, did your colleagues want to know about -- did they ask you what you're going to do quite >> know, those were judges.

and you know that wasn't the topic of discussion at all. i said judges want to get together and talk about a day in court. they like ups drivers. did you dump a truck today? did you cause a problem? or did you have somebody acting up you couldn't handle in court. i think in the main -- in my experience, the colleagues were accommodating and understood the enormity of the task we had during that period of time. >> judge walker, what tickets your comments. >> i'm not sure we had any problems i'm aware of that particularly interfered with getting the other cases out. you are blessed with large enough courtrooms and other facilities so that leaves those problems come from mine. >> they may have come from somebody else's attention.

>> it's like anything in life where there is this initial excitement and crowds of people in everyone's interested in everything he needs things, but then you get into a routine. so right at the beginning is crazy and their clients in the courthouse and everyone's worried, but you find seats for everybody. and then, insert a tag cloud and is interested anymore and the corker still is. and then, look who's going to be testifying. moussaoui is incredible because 8000 people were credentialed. in the end for the trial, there were probably 30 or 40 reporters who covered it on a daily basis. and the same thing for libby and stevens and it just becomes the courthouse gets used to it at work surrounded and you sort of

forget that it's going on and everybody has other cases and life goes on. is that sort of what you've observed? >> i'm there to cause a problem. [laughter] >> i'm sure you do it very well. let's go right there. >> judge walker talked about the hope argyle is the pressures that go along with that. i am wondering what role and it did get mentioned on this panel about greater access and attention. how much of it is around in terms of personal safety quite >> the question deals with all the new attention and spotlight in high visibility case and how much the judges considering the matters of personal safety and security and how much the judges considering the matters of personal safety and security and how much the judges considering the matters of personal safety and security and it depends on a

lot of circumstances. i would say the pressure i refer to related and it depends on a lot of circumstances. i would say the pressure i refer to related to personal security. those could come up in any kind of a case and occasionally do and sometimes, but not in the contacts of the case at all. the kinds of pressures i was talking about were simply the pressure that you know whatever you are doing is being very intensely scrutinized and you try to be as responsible as possible. and since you are essentially managing receding, you want to be sure they proceed in an orderly fashion, the things do not get out of hand, but she don't have chaos in the courtroom of the kind that we thought some of these videos that i showed. and that really is the pressure that comes to beer and a judge by anything else.

>> i will tell you my less than in my case during the trial court martial suggested that if i left the courthouse during the day, the rare times if i win now, it would have a marshal with me. i thought frankly that was overkill at the time. i thought he's been excessively cautious, but deeply appreciated that. obviously the concern he had. almost immediately, when i rendered my decision, i had death threats, very serious multiple threads that caused me to have round-the-clock marshal protection for several weeks after the case had included, so you know, you live and learn. i may never thought, never had a clue that i need anything like that would be the occasion about

the evolution and the first amendment. so you get surprise sometimes when you get into areas of personal safety and a poignant being in arizona to talk about things like that and that is a very tough area for all federal judges. >> thank you. i was going to ask mr. jones if you have the option of televising your case, which you have opted to allow cameras that are not? >> excuse me, the question is being if you could have, which would've allowed cameras in? >> two weeks before the trial started, i received a motion to intervene from what was then court tv. and i looked our local rule and the national days, obviously and

i declined and i frankly thought i had enough to do without the boulder stroke and i wasn't as creative as my friend judge walker was in his case. i wanted to. i really did. i tried to find the path to do it. he was too late to find the role and to televise it. i'm sorry that it wasn't televised. it was a bench trial. i thought exactly as judge walker benched in his remarks that there is other a case that should have been televised, whether it's terrific lawyering on both sides. we sit and we decry the lack of good civics education and the failure by the public to understand what goes on in the courts and then we let them miss these magnificent moments. so i wish that it had been televised. i think in retrospect it's not

because of anything i did, but i wish they had been able to see the lawyers perform in the case. they were credited to the profession. >> of course her friend senator specter was a big advocate of broadcasting trials. and just today, senator grassley and senator schumer with the support of senator leahy introduced a bill again, which they called the sunshine in the corporate mac, does not require -- yes, that's what they call it. does that require broadcasting, but would allow judges the discretion of broadcasting trials and so grassley and schumer is bipartisan. leahy is the support of cornyn, grant and turbine. so as i say, the committee has passed us before, but they're going to try to begin. >> there is a question not

there. >> d.c. experience talks about courtrooms didn't allow devices and there was a great tv in the room. media in the room. what was the rationale and was that the judge in the particular case didn't want to go there? it personally find it troubling because that's what we do. but i just wonder why? >> the question deals with electronic devices, why they were allowed in some parts and not others. go ahead. >> it's the culture of the court and it's also the individual judges. a lot of judges find electronic devices to be very distracting in the courtroom. a lot of judges are concerned

that you can flip a switch and all of a sudden you are connect it to the internet to your broadcasting, which is a violation of judicial -- >> so real-time blogging this broadcasting? >> no, they're not in the courtroom. >> by broadcasting, you mean actual sound or picture? >> audio, video. >> and also the issue with the real-time court reporting, which is something that is a concern. and our building doesn't have wi-fi except on the second floor, so there's all those internal issues as well. there's some practical reason and a curmudgeon who doesn't want to your cell phone go off. >> there were some practical reasons but i will put everything in there. sometimes there's physical barriers in the courtroom as well as culture as well as

judicial preference. >> federal courthouse is now don't allow cellphones, laptops, any electronic devices inside the courthouse. they don't even store them in lockers. you hear stories about lawyers coming. a cab drops them off front, they've got a black area, iphone, whenever you have just ushered in the bushes and hope nobody steals it. and that court made that decision because of security, because of whatever the reasons are. we're a long way from national comprehensive standard that are uniform in any way. in fact there is a deli right near the eastern district of the courthouse that makes a substantial part of income from destroying people's cell phones. last night's >> other questions from the audience? >> on the transcript issue, the

court reporter's are independent contractors, although their official court reporters. maybe think you get the transcript, but that's expensive? >> the question was about transcripts and the cost of them. and then i think it was extensive. >> one if they are not accustomed to doing it. if you call up the reporting service, i'll give you an example. there were these folks are locked into the office of senator mary landrieu. some have been involved in this group that does punk videos and they walked into her office, pretended to be from the phone company and shutter phones off. they were indicted on federal charges. there is a hearing in the case and we couldn't get there fast enough to know, so wanted to know what happened. i think we got the transcript about 10:15 that night.

they are not in the habit of thinking about the same day. extensive, but the great thing about the service was you could contract with the service. they would bill you and there was strength in numbers. there were lots of people around the country who were by the transcript that day in many people paying their share of the dollar a page from the per page copy would draw down. it was a wonderful service why it lasted. >> you have to order daily in advance. it doesn't happen not dramatically. >> for a childlike as sally, they did it automatically. it was tremendously helpful. there were several other trials that way, too. ..

which is about four times as much as long as most news stories. he also said the judge's tweets on the bench during the trial. [laughter] >> [inaudible] in case anybody asked here i will read you four. closing argument in wife killing of abusive husband. first time i've seen this a judge stock's closing arguments and since the jury out of the room because comments by

prosecutor. three minutes later judge david kaufman isn't happy with the justin edwards right now said he made improper arguments to the jury. next, lawyers are arguing with the prosecutor can say about the dna evidence without causing the jury to speculate. he says by the way that he finds his tweets, and maybe find this experience as well, howard -- all he does is get home at the end of the day and strings them together and has the story. whereas i was wondering how do you take notes when you are tweeting all the time it may be your tweets or your notes. >> [inaudible] in the federal system and district court electronic sound recording were is preferred for budgetary reasons over and the judges don't have anything much to say about this but that's the system. but we can buy that will take and listen to what sentence was or the witness' testimony was

i'm not going to interpret it because it's not checked by the court, but it's -- why isn't that a common enough accessible enough reasonably priced enough system compared to the transcript? >> why wouldn't the tapes or electronic forms of the testimony suffice it to the transcript? >> i would love if i could get those tapes but i don't know of any mechanism for me to buy the tape because what i do is i have to call the reporting service and the what they saw was the transcript. i don't think they want to give me the tape. >> some courts have transcript systems, stenographers and that's what you're talking about. other courts have electronic sound recording systems and the access is different on each,

because the esr tapes, the voice tapes are brought from the clerk's office. >> i would love that. that's good to know. thank you. >> yes, in the back. they were in the system and you would click on it and would be like another entry, and pete, i appreciate your criticisms of the pacer system however i think it's a very good system and if you know how to use it you can get access to virtually everything that exists >> there's a comment about something other courts in eastern pennsylvania doing some taping, but also comment in defense of the pacer system and

it might be knowing how the uses. islamic it seems quite clear to me. [laughter] and i want to be clear when i started covering the courts we had to beg them to fax us stuff, so they were never happy to hear us calling and he would sit there as the deadline went by, on your waiting for the fax machine to fire up so you could read the filing and i'm certainly not sorry to see those days ago. i mean tremendous consumer. it's wonderful. all i am saying is that it varies in how fast things are posted. there are still things for example and some cases you can't see everything. some cases you can only see the court orders. you can't see the filing by the parties. you see the doggett entry into the little blue dots if you click on that it gives you three lines about what it says but you

can't read the entire document. you can only read the court's orders so those are still things to be worked out. but piecer is a wonderful thing and i just wish it were even more wonderful is all i'm saying. [laughter] >> let me try to wrap this up with one more question, and i would certainly like each of our panelists to comment on this and i'm going to start with you. circling that around to where i started the landscape that's changing so rapidly what we did yesterday may not apply to mauro. in anticipation what is the next step what should the courts be looking at and preparing for that on the horizon and covering? >> i just think it's going to be more people wanting to do more in a faster way, wanting more

access, and yet, that will be a challenge for the court, but i guess the point i want to leave with as well is i think for them somebody who is blogging, listen to what howard said a moment ago. what was his concern? access. he wants to be in the courtroom blogging sent to the kids table where all he can see is the tv screen. so it still comes down to access to be able to be in the courtroom to get your hands on the documents, and so i think the pressure is on the courts to accommodate more people certainly for high-profile and be more responsive to being able to get documents exhibits and those sorts of things out more quickly. >> from the administrative point of view. >> i think they like being at the kids table because they can come and go, have a soda and a

sandwich and they can also talk with the other people in the room and if they have questions about what happened other reporters are sharing information and getting greater accuracy. cameras and the courts are coming. i think the judicial conference pilot made a mistake in the way it set up now is the courts have to provide the camera and then the courts release the video and i don't think that is the best way to go. what should have happened is there should have been a pool and the media and the media should have had the camera and the media should have been responsible for releasing it because we don't have the bandwidth to have this stuff. we don't have the staff to be doing this sort of thing. to those who say the media will take the advantage, the first time they pan over to the jury that's the last time the cameras

in the courtroom and they know that. the media knows if they make a mistake they are going to lose their credential and just a lot, and i am hoping of the pilot ever gets going that one of the things we will learn is the media should be the ones with the camera and the one to release the video. >> this is such a terrific opportunity i think to have somebody from the court administration major media, to federal judges to talk about these things come and you think of how far we've come in the benefit of collaborating in hearing each other on these subjects, but the challenge and think to elude to what i said earlier in response to one of the questions is to look at these best practices because this is quickly evolving area of the law. i agree with betsy cameras are coming sooner rather than later but we have other challenges as

well, and something we have a totally new paradigm and changing paradigm as it relates to the media and the intersection of the media and the courts, and we need to frankly take the judges to school in many cases and court administration to school as well because the old way doesn't work. whether for the old way was, the sort of press be damned and let them figure it out, that can't work in my opinion any more and you have a new generation of judges who are very technically savvy and get this intuitively in a way that frankly many of us have to end up self teaching, and so i think it's exciting to exchange ideas and see where we are and learn not just from the good things we do but from the mistakes we've made in accommodating the media in these cases as well.

>> judge walker we're going to give you the last word. >> we've talked about how to get news or the word out in high-profile cases. i want to suggest there's another side to the claim. not everything about every case, high profile or not, could be or needs to be held in the open and you must remember in many of these high-profile cases we have juries. people who were brought in to exercise tremendously important public conscience. they are unaccustomed to what we are accustomed to in the legal community or the media were court administration's and the need to be provided some assurance that the service is going to be respected that they will not suffer any adverse consequences. so we need some cooperation from the diversified, from the media in dealing with the jurors and

providing them an appropriate environment so that when they are in the courtroom or coming to or from the courtroom, they can do their job free of interference and of the kind of pressure in any kind of how we'll do the kaput proceedings -- profile proceedings. so it needs to go both ways and i would hope and i am sure that we will get the same kind of cooperation from the media and those interested in the access that we are going to try to provide on our end. >> we will give you tennant creek but before that we need to think the panel. [applause]

the international women's media foundation released a report on gender equality in the news media. the report which looked at

broadcast and print companies in 60 countries found that about one-third of third the to journalism positions are held by women and most media management jobs are held by men. this is an hour. [applause] >> thank you very much, judy for that very kind introduction. welcome you to washington. i wish of the weather was better but you have come at a perfect time. it is very exciting for me to be here. i am fairly new. i joined just a year ago and it's been a wonderful experience for me to be on the board of such an exciting and dynamic organization. i'm going to give a quick exit of summary of the findings of the report and then on and -- i have a wonderful panel on companies doing great things. the report is not slim, but i am going to make a point of sending this report to my mother who was a journalist herself when i was a riot in saudi arabia and

ministers in saudi arabia when we were living in jeddah and they would say to her she's the first woman who had ever been in the room, not even have the cleaners had been women, so she was a pioneer herself and i know she will be excited how much progress we've made. thank you. [applause] with a global study on the status of women in the news media is the first international study that provides a complete baseline, and it is so comprehensive a think that is what is so useful about it of the women's position in the news media. we used the six methodologies and included news companies from all different regions of the world which really is a global report. the study was conducted in more than 40 different languages coming and i am sure you can all realize being from so many countries ourselves just how many languages we are dealing with and how many countries we are dealing with. the local researchers conducted face-to-face interviews and a different occasions and covered

522 companies and 59 different countries. 28% of those companies were radio broadcasters. 24% television and 48% were newspapers. the data is organized in severin different regions of the world. there's the middle east and north africa come sub-saharan africa, the americas, asia, eastern europe, nordic europe and western europe. here is what we sought to learn as we were conducting different interviews. we want the extent to which the women have entered the media work force. we want to know what the women's status is in the companies they work, not just whether they are working their but with their actual positions are and the amount of power and control they have. what women's compensation is compared to their male counterparts and this is one of the key findings of the report and one that is worth all of you reading. we want to know the terms under

which all of the women in the news media organizations are employed and we wanted to know the extent to which companies have adopted pro ecology policies, specifically gone out there to try to address gender imbalances. the up some of the report is that we have a long way to go. we've come further than my mother's era of 1970 but we'd do still have a long way to go. the study found 73% of the top management jobs in the countries covered by the report or occupied by men, 73%. and as we know, having women at the top changes the situation for the women further down the pipeline. so that is one of the key areas i think that we all felt needed to be changed. we also felt men are paid more than women. the glass ceiling is real and some areas of the world are much better than others. some of that is surprising.

there were areas of the world you might expect, some of the nordic countries are doing particularly well. there are other areas of the world definitely falling behind on gender issues. the findings from the global study on the status of women underscore of the importance of the work that we are doing. but i am a glass half full person and it's not all bad news. the study also found that there are many companies with really good track records on gender equality and they are here with us today to share their stories and i hope to give you practical takeaways. what i would like to get out of the panel this information all of you can take back to your companies about things you could be doing better, easier, things that do work in terms of gender equality. so i'm going to try to make it as practical a panel as possible and if i could call my panelists at this stage the would be wonderful. [applause]

>> it's my pleasure to introduce the principal investigator and author of the global research report dr. carolyn. she's a member of the graduate faculty and howard university school of communications. [applause] also with me on the stage, a representative to those exemplary media organizations. they are from left to right, canada cbc general manager and editor-in-chief, jennifer mcguire. the managing editor ines pohl. ugonda's new vision editor-in-chief, barbara kaija. [applause]

sylvia miro quesda from editorial el commercio. the amendment to become managing editor and director and i'm going to join you and apologize for any of the names i mean gold. i'd think that we've tested my linguistic ability this morning. carolyn, to start with you and go through the main findings of the report for the audience first of all what was the biggest challenge you came across because you were working in so many different countries and so many different languages, and i imagine jogging evin just to illicit real information and get facts of the company's >> that is one of the major things is getting into the company's. in some countries we had very little trouble. in other countries, we had a great deal of trouble getting access and was surprising which

of those countries we have the greatest amount of trouble. they were in most cases i think in fact in all cases in the most developed countries. we have the greatest difficulty gaining access to interviews. i think one of the huge challenges as you can probably imagine is organizing the project we wanted to cover all areas of the world but how are we going to do that? how were we going to manage it and set it up? and once we made some decisions about the decentralizing it in terms of organization, then we had the challenge of how do you work across -- how do you gather data in any kind of uniform way when companies find their jobs so differently? when journalism is organized a different from country to country, and i think it was the credit of our international advisory board that we worked quite a few weeks on just

protecting a questionnaire that we thought would work in so many different countries. >> what surprised you most? there's a lot of data and a lot of information. when you look back at the report, there are two or three thin to really stick in your mind? >> one of them you mentioned at the podium, and that is the ways in which some of the regions just simply span out above others in a uniform way. i think we have to look at the eastern european region. we have eight countries in eastern europe, the former soviet bloc and uniformly from country to country the women were almost at parity or some cases beyond parody with the men in their companies and i think we had to look at some of the reasons for that that had to do with the way that for all of us the problems in terms of authoritarian governments and repression and so forth the

soviet system moved educated women into the work force and having been institutionalized in that way the was a labour force there already trained able to assume journalism jobs as journalism itself changed. >> as it did refer other companies and other parts of the world are those models than the are replicable given the come out extraordinary circumstances? >> i think the lessons might be replicable. for instance, another sort of major thing that stood out is the relationship between the national laws and the status of the women in journalism and even in some countries where that belong to the region where there was not particularly high status of women in the news agencies some individual countries, our colleague here from ugonda and i were just talking about this earlier, ugonda has a high status of women in general for the national laws trading fehr

fifth in terms of the women in office because of the laws and constitution. and so one of the ways for the women and journalists to be talking about this is what happens at the sort of national level. to the women under the constitution's command we see this also in the e.u. with the nation's mandated to advance gender equality and almost all of those countries women had high your status of the journalism job. >> let's talk about one of the areas of the world looking at the report falling behind, and i was asia. there are examples an age of countries ahead but asia did seem to be a sort of a particularly complicated area. >> it is, and in some respects the nations are different from each other and so it's one of the areas of the world that's the hardest of the generalities, but something we haven't talked much about this culture and the ways in which culture enter into

the kind of job growth women might assume, the ways even educated women might be able to advance in certain parts and occupations and the other thing is journalism has always been the first occupation that educated women in the country's have moved into so i think one of the things i learned is this is a fairly new occupation for a lot of the women. >> we have five companies that seem to be doing the right thing in promoting women and their organizations. are there many others around the world? >> yes, there are, and one of the things we should remember in the days ahead as we talk about the global report is 522 companies cannot represent all of thousands of companies out there and so in each individual country i think it will be

really important to spotlight and emphasize the companies that are the models and to take lessons from them. >> we will continue this discussion and please feel free to chip in as well. i wanted to start with this panel by asking all of you it seems obvious the need to promote women and journalism, but why? why are we here? why is it important to the news media to have the women not just journalists in the senior positions? >> journalism is about choices and traces are by the people who make them day today. so in the newsroom you're not representative of the people you're trying to serve than that is a filter and i think with gender equity or this diversity is important to get people in the newsroom driving a different perspective in terms of the news of the day and that's the basic

reason that it's not, it's a good business. it's our job as the media and the broader population that if we don't have those people at tables fuelling the the discussion and helping us make those choices then we are not connecting to the people we are serving. >> if we move beyond the times when we promote women because the good diverse thing to do to the realization to make business sense and political sense for the society. >> i think she's right about choices, it's about one the topics which we cover but it's also about how we look at topics, which questions we asked, who is asking the question, but then i think it's also about how to run the news organization when we come to the managing level and i totally

believe it's really much needed and that there is a mixture of gender and mixture of diversity where people come from, so i think the changes are the way to deal with each other and this then also approach is how we do journalism. >> and barbara? >> the case of the evil king world is the only sensible thing to do because how else shall we develop the society >> we know the levels will -- we developing nation so it is the only sensible thing to do to hear what the women have to say and help them get their voices reflected and their needs reflected and to get -- use it to the agenda for them what. >> you come from a country that is still fairly conservative when it comes to issues of

gender equality. >> [inaudible] with -- we didn't have the opportunity to vote before the -- >> just 40 years ago. >> 40 years ago, so we are doing quite well and i would like to take some words [inaudible] and this new way to connect with people, the women to have and advantage compared to men because nowadays, to connect people we need to have certain attributes which are not really

manageable and do a lot of things will was since the beginning of humanity, of menlo to fishing, hunting and on the contrary to [inaudible] he told me if you go back and look around they were at home they farming, cook, raise their children, so what are we having

now? i think that a war now is a very good opportunity in a way to challenge and women to be more educated, to encourage them to jump into the story because we have a lot to share with people, our community, and this is a very good moment for the women in the media. >> why is it important that it's going to have women in senior positions and in the journalists links? >> it's important because it changes the newsweekly and makes it easier for the women were when would you have a leader but i think we are closer now with a better agenda balance with everyday consumer news and the section very much so --

>> are half of the readers women? >> 49% actually, yes. >> so having journalists in the ranks -- having women as journalists reflects your reader's concerns as well? >> we think so, absolutely. ischemic you all agree that it's important. what have your company's done specifically? jennifer let's start with you, to make sure we get there. >> at cbc we have the hiring equity practices so all things being equal, the equity piece gets played in terms of preferences but i think ford cbc the strategy is to be delivered and i will tell you a little story. cared and levine was the prt winning documentary winner and a radio producer of cbc and in the early 90's, some of you might have heard on npr she was

listening to the show and she thought sounded to officials and male so she started marching on the storyboard how many stories were featured in female voices and male valises and then begin the discussion with the producers about look let's try to change this and get other voices on the air. then it's progressed to let's say we won't have official representative to be female voices. so then the goal was to try to get it to happen, to work harder to get the women on the air so at a certain point in the day she would have another story meeting as the board was looking too male and they would do it again so all of this is to say it wouldn't just happen and i can speak from experience on the cbc diversity policies, too good intentions are not enough and if you ask, pick a show, if you ask if the value equity or diversity

or the reflection they would say yes. if you measure by content analysis to see if it happened, many cases that's not the case. so i think it has to be delivered. i think you have to declare what is you are trying to achieving your audience and then measure it and hold people accountable, and everybody hates, but it's not because in journalism every day we heard the lady from belarus, why not belarus and lydia many were not in bahrain and they make choices every day so they have important value to acquire it and commit to it and have it accountable. >> is this the experience in ugonda that you've made specific choices to make sure the women are promoted? is that the genesis experience of what you have done or would you do anything different to promote gender equality? >> the example comes from the constitution. i think the media and ugonda is

the reflection of what our society is, what our society is when the law is concerned because 1990, the constitution in ugonda, it was a requirement that 30% of the position goes from local government up to the parliament should be women, the people in the local government at least for everyone should have 40% women representatives. >> there was enough in your own news organization. >> i think that happened because we as the media had to report on the agenda equity and we were playing the policeman had to be that we had to reflect that because when you keep reporting on something it happens then you do it but also may be another thing is we have leadership,

surprisingly man, not women, leadership in the organization that valued the woman so the discussions never whether semidey is a woman and what we could do and because of that when in got promoted and that is how we made it to the top. >> you come from a country that has a very different approach and attitude. how have you managed in your own organization to implement policies that promote women in the organization? >> what specifically -- >> our newspaper is a newspaper was founded in 1839 so it is almost 132 years. we have tried to be very professional and to have a

family code and everything and one of the change in the newspaper is what really matters is having the best people in the newsroom regardless of gender, and to be in the limitation. >> but do you specifically try as jennifer was suggesting to have policies that make sure the women are represented in the interviews that there are an equal number of women -- >> no, we don't really because we think more about the democracy and i think that we have very good professionals so we have the need to have special policies in the next two years

very much good improvement because we have much more women in the committee's than to give the support to the rest of the newspaper so it is working normally. >> what is your experience, what particular things have you implemented? >> our experience is without the since your involvement if gender inequality would be party speeches but that is so crucial and the way to do it for us it was in 2002 we made a formal agreement between the management and the journalist union that was important because it stated the clear policy we agreed we would have the equality in all levels of the recession and that strict policy of how to get there and i think it's important

like jennifer said to measure it because if i had the department this year every year we have a face-to-face conversation in the head of the department and will not measure you only on [inaudible] i will measure you whether you find for the true and pleased will find this year the you'll find a good female reporters. >> if you measure him and -- there is a judge description that helped us to get the mail applications and then everybody that's working in the organization and has a leader position, if the measure whether

they do it or not they would do that much more so. >> that is about investing in the future and representative but it's not about giving people the job not qualify for the job. [inaudible] that is to have women and men and also the middle management level, so we have to have as many women as men in the middle management positions also and the top and the managing editor and i have one a woman and one male deputy but this is for germany i am the only female managing editor from the newspaper in germany. you have to think we have the chancellor but in the news business is poor especially newspapers, in the television and radio stations and i think my peter is doing so well

because of this quote and it's really strict. they have to hire a woman and there isn't any woman like in the newsroom to have to move outside of the news room to find someone. >> and it's how dependent is the policy on having a woman right at the top? of you are women leading your news organizations and i wonder if chris adamle you were replaced by men tomorrow whether your news organizations gender equality but slipped. >> i would say first of all it would be the man. >> someone said this morning tomorrow we will have one session with only men on the panel which is kind of strange but on the other hand it's strange because they are engaged in the question and things. but i still think yes it is important women and female leaders are visible because this in power is then and encourages

young journalists and women to feel able to also step forward and to take the responsibility for the leadership. >> to tell you a story about two very capable political reporters in the capitals probably about what i want tell you the date because then you will know who, but both were young mothers and they wanted to job share out of the capitol. they agreed to work nights, weekends and insure that it would be a sort of seamless transition in terms of any election campaign. and they were told no you can't do that, you either come to the job in the terms of the job or get out and they both left the organization and the organization was sort of a lesser for it and i think in the structure of how we work and look at the work is still sort of a male hierarchy and health

organizations are run and that is the sort of next evolution because we don't want to lose the women who choose to have families. we have to figure out how that works into the representation moving forward. >> picking up on the point now about social services that are government-funded and available to women emerged in the country has an important issue. probably europe as well. where you have government laws governing the longer terms of the parent feeds, government funded child centers that take care of children until they go to school. the really free of the women to live their career lives. and again, as we are looking at models and principles, i confess that would be something not to

forget about. >> that is clearly true in every profession we men are involved in the those are important factors. you fall talked about the policies that you have implemented, and i wonder if you could give me a specific example perhaps you could come up with one. have you had a specific example where somebody has pushed back against gender ecology where you have come up against somebody that said we shouldn't have this woman to win this story or any problems you encountered in trying to keep women in the news organization and promote women. >> we have problems with lots of things, but what we have a problem with is getting enough female forces actually in the paper. when you read my paper you will find 75% male sources in my

paper and we struggled with this for 20 years and we still struggle. >> but the people being interviewed -- questioned in the newspaper tend to be minute. >> one of the reasons is where we're still struggling hardest to make the women go to the night shift to reply myself am an example. i have the night shift making the paper and that's because my husband is traveling a lot and i have young children at home. i am an excellent that we are struggling hard to meet the women on the night shift and that might women make the paper and pick the pictures and say why do we only have male -- so we are struggling with that so that is the main challenge still.

>> we are struggling with the scene problem. there has to be one picture of a woman on our front page and we have big fights talking about in the newsroom. you should hear the women and male colleagues. it's possible and it's not only from -- >> if i look at the front page -- >> i think this is a very simple move that changes because then the front page editor would go to the section and say i need a story because otherwise they will come and say where is the picture? >> i was disturbed to read in canada after the evens in egypt and the journalist who was raped in egypt the discourse became is it safe for female journalists

to go into danger in terms of reporting and we had editorials saying women with children shouldn't be allowed to do this kind of coverage which is ludicrous. we had a camera man in egypt as well and we didn't talk at that as a gender issue but somehow a female journalist being injured covering a dangerous -- i don't want to diminish the danger of it, but we have to sort of address these things because that isn't the discourse we need. >> let's talk about your experience in peru. have there been times in your newspaper where you tried to implement the gender policies and you've faced reluctance from other people? >> we don't have unions for the newspapers because when we had the government there are no

unions and most of the companies and [inaudible] something we have to work on and we don't have any problem in having the women and at midnight and the same considerations as males in the news room and trained to cover the very difficult stories. one of the journalists 20 years ago [inaudible]

so we send women to cover hardest police, and i remember when i got to the newspaper that day and i was coming out and she said what happened? he was in the highlands and there was a [inaudible] so we need you to talk with the family. some cases the women cover the story is, but -- we have it as a problem in the culture. but mostly we send women to cover the stories in the inside

part of the country. some like to years ago, you give me your testimony and she told me this women not from the place was like kindling in explosive bomb in my hands. they suggested me not to pose a question to the taxi driver. those were things only for the male are was to talk to them in a smooth manner otherwise i was told the same thing may happen and i asked what that could come to you [inaudible] the told me don't talk as if you are from the capitol.

you could be raped at any moment. so that's really [inaudible] >> and get you still have women journalists who will go? if you took -- let's take this example of having a woman, the photograph of a woman on the front page of el commercio. if you took that back now and said every night we must have a photo -- would that be something that could work? would it help or not really? >> - that not to have every day. women would have to work for the stories of their readers and the audience. we have good stories where the women are involved in the story. i don't believe that every day you have to do this, you have to try to look for good stories and have a symbol of good database

and oversee the database and say okay which are the sources because i have to talk about the problems. okay but why one email consultants? are there no mining engineers women and jumping into the database. but i don't believe really everyday you should have a story it's impossible because every day circumstances don't get journalism for people. >> let me bring you back in here. you come from a country where if you fix planned the constitutional wall that promote gender equality. have there been times even despite that where the newspaper you've encountered challengers

trying to promote women? >> yes, they're have been a number of times, and one example i can think about is when the new maternity policy was passed. formerly we had only 45 days of maternity so you would go back. now over to three months most of the employers find eight hard. when it's coming to the media house the argument was [inaudible] because they want to be able to get their jobs back but we did seek an agreement look we should take these three months off and look after the baby's and if a woman once a flexible period after 45 days she can work and work half days and the works because there are women in top

management despite that it became hard to the implementation we had to keep fighting the -- >> did you find that when the women wanted to take longer maternity leave that affected the prospect for the kind of stories to cover? óx when they come back they arex guaranteed their jobs back but certainly if two people enter the same time and went for maternity leave at a longer time to find that your meal colleague has advanced but when you come back and get your job back. >> i wanted to talk about the kind of stories that you have found that you have been able to cover when you wrote. you had agreed to a simple you told me about earlier about the beginning of the jet uprisings and a particular story that you covered and i thought what was interesting about this is that it showed the difference in the way between female and male

reporting and that is something you thought was worth promoting in the news organization. >> i think it is referred to a young student writing for us which we put in the print paper because it was very difficult in the beginning to have contact with the correspondence obviously giving it so she was living in the student home that was crowded because it was so centered in cairo and she wrote about how to taking care of the skin after the tear gas attacks. so you'd think there's a revolution going on, why do we report on that? but it just shows how these things affect normal lives and how women, young women, young students deal with the new situation and i found it so interesting in coming from that

it involves the whole discussion and how the women take care of the skin and their kids so just a little thing, jennifer, you said early on, it really matters who reports if it is a woman or a man. so the thing you said earlier about traces. >> that is something that's changed but i feel like for a long time, we thought we should all pretend and say that women were the same as man and actually now i think there's a recognition that it's okay to say we report things differently. is that true, jennifer? >> i don't know if i would actually delineate entirely about this. but i do think bringing up a personal filter to the story is what happens naturally come and the more people of different perspectives -- i would say the same thing in canada, the multi-cultural society.

i would say the same thing about that, you need people who bring that to the table in terms of looking at what is the story and what is interesting about the story and how we cover that story. so yes, i do think that. >> do you have experience, too? >> working with the culture and the company takes longer than you think. so when i started my newspaper 20 years ago a 91 we had the gender balance, and it wasn't the great place to work for a young person, it really wasn't. ññver went to the practiceñ after, you know -- it does something with people. it's the balance and i think every workplace in the world needs the quality to be a nice place to become and that affects the way to we live our work life and we work together and the

news we are finally making and we have been working so much with this mean culture to make a better place to be. and we have done seminars in for a moment working with the women leaders come encouraging each other to take these issues and that's -- and 20 years we have moved from 30% female balance to 37 almost. we are still not satisfied, but that has done something, and of course now it's -- the victims voice in the case are coming through the story. we had a story called 72 women

killed by the man, and it's a female initiative saying we are so tired of the police saying every week on the news that the tragedy happened, it is a family tragedy, the way the police announced this and we said no, it's a murder. 72 women tortured and tell their story. as the greatest project we ever made and of course this is because we see it a little bit different. this isn't a family tragedy, it's murder. so we wouldn't have this if we hadn't worked 20 years of getting the women up say let's do this. ..

and we've listed to the daily mail. the gmail had trans-or their newspaper by following the bombing. so when it came back to new vision, we decided to do that. do not coin-op female issue? >> the only way you could do that was getting the women in getting their voices, getting their issues heard, getting another word entangling the story for the women.

and actually did clear that because it gave gives us the women, but also it gave us the mail readers because they are more interesting to read. >> give an example -- >> an example of an accident is not just mandated accident. we be today from an accident. instead of that human females feel into the story. >> you wrote -- internecine row coming attack about that the areas where you're still having trouble getting women reporters. one of them was investigative journalism. he mentioned the example of the people who face danger when they traveled the country and one of your reporters was killed. even on a more day-to-day basis, it is sometimes hard for the women to do the kinds of things

are merely colleagues don't do teach it ahead and get the sources. >> i remember when i started in the newspaper in 1982 we work in the newsroom. and the rest of them were men. we were together and were known from each other, but it became one of the first newspaper in which the newspaper is the only late lady in the picture. but now, the reports will have

been that many times in one of the newspaper because she's the manager decided to stay for a time. when i started being an investigative reporter, i was told that my colleagues from the other newspapers who want to get that source, you have to have drinks with people or you have to take the process they had to take the judges. they said well, i'm not going to do that. you know me. so she really changed a lot the way of investigative reporters. she really had good work with the information that she was

given an international award the way she had been recovering the forces. >> limited night was something she didn't feel comfortable doing or didn't want to. she managed to get the sources -- >> she changed the way in a very professional way. she really found a way to get to the sources without using the manner you can say. >> that's quite a remarkable story because the hurdles that they feel in some fields can be overcome. barbara, you talk about the fact that it's hard for women in the field as well, that all you done

great things to promote the newspaper come in their areas of journalism where there's not enough women. >> actually, a universe to be -- i don't think i have a situation. ladies and uganda have covered some of them. we covered them to war, the rwanda genocide. at least six of them did. when it comes to investigations, there's only one lady who does investigations. and i think it's a skilled issue. it's a lack of confidence and i think it's an area we can do better. i don't enka have a solution. >> is it a question of making specific quotas? >> i think it takes more.

we demand an analytical investigative. it's more like asking somebody to do something, but they don't have the skills to do it. it's more of a skilled issue. >> back to the point of having competent. we had the same in germany that asked, can you write this editorial? they say sure, what is it about click they say what is it about? you know, i don't know. and i think the question for it should be how come we encourage women doing jobs they don't feel strong enough, don't feel skilled enough. do they have so much better skills to do investigative journalism in your country clinics i really don't know. it's mainly men who do the big investigative pieces. they are reporting out of office hours, those they come back to

family issues. but then also, they have their own model. so they are following their own models. and this is something we should talk about, how we can maybe do special stay friends or through special training programs really young or middle-aged women to john. >> or give them the opportunity. i can promise you there are at least three jobs i had that it was not ready for, but i had somebody who saw something in me and believed in me and gave them to me and supported me or the transition process. so i think if you have people who are capable, critical thinkers, good writers, instinctive journalist, you can grow them to be your premier investigative journalists for support. i think it's a copout to say that it can't be. >> i am just thinking that in the case of covering the wars,

this because there was more models they looked at. we meant we were doing this. i think that what actually happened. >> i think actually it's an issue for journalism education. >> i think at least in the u.s., almost two thirds of the students in journalism schools are females and so i think to some extent of giving them the training incentive to mentor young journalism students is that they have been there had the idea that maybe they should do that. and i think also going back to barbara's issue about skills or compliments, i think that it takes a particular tenacity to be an investigative reporter. you have to be willing to stick

with something to get your foot in the door. i do student. i used to teach investigative repealing as what i taught at a university. my most aggressive student was a female. even on a story assignment for class, she said they found out this guy wasn't going to give her an interview, so she found out what time he came to work and she was there to meet him at 7:00 a.m. when she arrived. and she interviewed him outside the door of his office building because he wouldn't give her an interview. so i think it takes a certain amount -- it could start much earlier than just in the newsroom. >> i think it's so interesting to say that the man looks in the mirror if he's a senator or president. and a women has to be asked to run for office and we don't naturally look in the mirror and we could do perhaps a better job of both promoting ourselves within our organizations and claiming credit for we do, but also feeling within ourselves.

i wonder how important you think it is having a woman at the top of the organization to make the women further down the pipeline feel that that in and of itself is a better role model.gpg0 >> i found it very interesting that diane yesterday referred to your mother as strong ideals,gp0 superstars. and that shows -- i think that shows you need someone who may be on your side, who believes i0 you. i think this can be much easier for the women journalists. >> the meantime he talked about trying to give confidence to younger reporters who might not see themselves, as barbara said, as the next sports reporter or finance reporter, political reporter. some of those fields i find harder to get into. you talked about a week to getting conference. what would be an example of how

you think women in the audience could do that? >> first of all, for many german youth organizations, with very little women in the finance world. so this would be a field to cover these things. i think the coverage is indifferent. >> vb finance would be different. >> i think what one really could do -- one could decide the next job opening i have in this field and look for my younger colleagues using gauged enough that i sent her to training for special help before she would get the job. i think that is something one could really do to look for the newsroom and talent can really get promoted for special training. >> it never underestimates the power of role model. we heard that yesterday in the room above the question i'm

trying to asking questions. we have a correspondent for the name is adrian or so no was a rockstar in journalism schools across the country. and my foot that leads to not impact is profound. >> we have five questions and i want to ask each of you briefly what you briefly what you would tell the audience and other members of the media here that they could take back to their own news organizations that you have learned to improve gender equality. >> two things. leadership can be delivered. >> very brief.

organizations that have connections to women liberation movements are incredibly important because you don't just want to move him into newsrooms. he won't women who have a conscious is to know what to ask them how to report the news would make it to your. and that's why the connection has to bey? there.ñ?x?ñ?ñ? >> i'd say leadership. leadership that sticks out. they are the strongest allies we have. and i'd also say skills. >> very good. >> leadership no doubt, to have time in the organization because many times were in the newsroom, we are not looking for the talent that we have to train.

the leadership can have confidence in what they're doing. >> i would say three things. clearly defined goals and a specific policy filing them out. and i will say active enrollment and participation from the top initiative. that doesn't meet chief editor would say where is the women on the front page of this act of involvement from management? and working with attitudes in the company is so important. you must not forget that. it has taken us 20 years working with us. so don't forget about that. >> them are still not satisfied. >> which you have to find a way to work this out. >> thank you also much. i was a fascinating panel. i hope you have things you cannot take back to your organizations. barbara, sylvia, caroline, thank

you for joining me up your. [applause] [inaudible conversations]