be interesting, massachusetts there was a law that was passed called charlotte's law which forbade an insurance company from not allowing bone marrow transplantation for breast cancer. so, in other words, because it was felt that the insurance companies would skimp, which they were doing, on breast cancer therapy there was a law that was passed. basically, it was breast cancer therapy with transplantation mandated by law. i mean, there are example after example, and i certainly think this will repeat itself for many forms of therapy that we engage in today. >> i have a question on prostate cancer. >> yeah. you might have to be loud, because the mic is somewhere in the back. i can repeat your question. >> [inaudible] >> well, i mean, are you asking what ultimately causes prostate cancer or why is prostate cancer

coming in so many different varieties? which of those -- >> [inaudible] .. there is one form that does not metastasize so easily and you will not die of prostate cancer and the other form that will kill you. it is a huge problem that the magnitude that would make a

difference, it would make a difference in the health-care budget because every 10,000 that you shouldn't be treating any way, you are piling up costs, the best thing to do is nothing. that is part of the answer. the other part is in the absence of that knowledge, in the absence of the knowledge how do we behave as individuals tour is society. it is likely, 80% likely, why don't you watch and wait? in a culture, where the word cancer has taken on metaphors and the current understanding how does one communicate, and if

you go on the web you will find 10,000 opinions about testing with the psa. it is so common that it will make a difference to the budget. the numbers pile up. the usual answer to this is technology, science, deeper understanding. when we were in the waiting pattern trying to figure out a few in the audience would tell us five years later, how to discriminate between the good and that kind of prostate cancer and chief these problems in washington. that is the best thing we can do. [inaudible]

>> have we looked -- i talked about the food additive. i spoke a little bit in the book about estrogens and pesticides. is an issue that remains -- there's a deep interest in looking at it particularly pesticides. there is an integrated approach, not the old style epidemiology but molecular biology and cancer genetics would be required to solve these puzzles. in general especially with this there is a smoking gun. i don't know if you agree or

disagree. questions in the back? >> i was wondering if you could comment on your evolution as a writer. >> in the sense -- >> an extraordinary book. i am curious how you evolve as an author? >> my general approach to writing this book for any kind of writing that i do happens to be informed through my scientific work. in this case i had an urgent question. in terms of learning to write when i wrote this book, if you

wrote this book you might sense that as the book progresses from 200 pages to 400 pages if you are a careful reader at least to me it is obvious i am learning to write. by the 400th pages i am but different writer than the first page. i work backwards and try to cleaned up and tried to clean up what i had done before. had to realize the writing itself--that is one feature of it. i talk to this and spoken to others, i am a deeply disciplined writer in the sense that i write small snatches here and there. i write exclusively in my bed. i propped myself up with

pillows. when i was writing all of this often i would have early mornings, the most important thing in terms of the writing of this book if you are a writer it becomes clear to use this book lives it at its seams. the content was relatively easy for me to write. it was the stitching together of the content. 1994 to 2,000 b.c. and move forward to 580. how does this fit together? what are the stitches' between them and sometimes the stitching is very tenuous. the real discipline in this book

was that stitching. how does one manage? a very confident reader. i tried to say to myself a kind of person who would go through this book is the kind of person i trust funds to move through those scenes and i will rise to the book and they will rise to read it. people who read the book, it is pretty dense. i didn't spare the most contemporary details. we talk about cancer genomics from 2008. the book lives in it seems. those are the features that allowed me to right. one last comment. lot of people have asked me,

happening to a friend of. i learned to write from people who have written before me. there was a learning process. that raises the question about it was a very interesting person, was there something about being indian in this book? in this particular book. it happens to be from this apartment. my answer to the question is i think the most important thing about being indian in writing this book was the fact that india gave me the freedom not to write about in the of. in doing so allowed me to write about something that was entirely universal.

had nothing to do -- it was almost as if i inherited a kind of writing tradition which allowed me to not have to write about local politics or the culture of a continent but to write about something we can have a conversation about. that was important to me personally. the cultural and political freedom. i am not sure i can convey how deeply that was influential to me. i felt i could write about something that was universal and i thank being in america for that but also my country. >> last question? >> there has been a lot of research linked to the memorization of cancer. i wondered why you didn't include it and do you think a

fair peace will come of this research to fight against cancer? >> back to the question of what was included or not included in general i included scientific things in the book that have led to human fair be. i tried -- if you trace back -- what ever goes into the book really ends in a human being somehow. comes out of a certain understanding of cancer and become the drug and becomes the drug. things like understanding with that -- the immune system. kerri important in the understanding of fundamental biology of cancer but did not meet the test of being able to be transformed into something that would impact the way we

treat or deal with preventive mechanisms of cancer. when they do so i will be forced -- >> they had done everything they could. it was something greater. how much do you think positive attitude or belief in a spiritual thing plays a role in curing cancer and what is your experience? >> good an end with that question. relatively provocative answer. my provocative answer is i try not to believe that the site he has a role in causing cancer for the following reason. i think it victimizes cancer

patients. when people say there is a link between the psyche and cancer is precisely the kind of weak that hands to a cancer patient whose plight is already full twice the burden. i try to shy away from that kind of thinking because it seems very negative. i know some people who had intensely positive attitudes about life with incurable cancers. some people were unbelievably depressed or have all sorts of mental illnesses who lived relatively cancer free lives. the idea of the psyche causes cancer, i have an allergy to this idea. to live believe the psyche modifies one's ability to heal? yes. but there's no archetypical psyche. someone might use grief to heel or depression. for someone dealing with their

ellis might involve entering a space full of grief and depression. it might be their mechanism and to force my understanding of what ever spirituality is tour my understanding of what a positive attitude is ends up victimizing a patient. who am i to say what your positive attitude is? your decision. you might decide you have an intense feeling of grief around your illness. that is your mechanism of healing. i can try to help people when the grief takes what i call a pathological forms but even then i try to be a step back from it. particularly i am allergic to this idea that the reason you are not getting better is because you are not thinking positively enough. that is why i wrote this book. there are so many self-help books out there about cancer that say that. you are not getting better or

doing the right thing. not fighting hard enough. i am very allergic to that. i start my conversation saying i won't go there. if that is where you want to be that is your decision as a patient and i respect that decision but for me to say that as a doctor creates a cycle of blame that i want to avoid. [applause] >> siddhartha mukherjee is a staff physician at columbia university medical center. author of "the emperor of all maladies: a biography of cancer" and winner of the 2011 pulitzer prize in general nonfiction. to find out more and other pulitzer prize winners go to pulitzer.org. you are watching booktv on c-span2. here is a look at our prime time

lineup tonight. it 7:00 eastern robert hurst discusses success and criticism of the autobiography of mark twain volume 1. at 8:30 politics and pasta, prosecuted mobsters rebuild a dying city. 5 years in a federally funded gated community and lived to tell the tale. at 10:00 eastern afterwards, the author of inventing george washington is interviewed by peter. up next on booktv, recounting julie and paul child's careers in world war ii. the cookbook author and television personality began her service as a file clerk in 1942 and later stationed in india and china. the author recalls the couple's travels as part of the clandestine office as well as the interrogation of paul child on allegations of communist

sympathies. [applause] >> thank you. for venturing out on this rainy spring evening. and i am going to start this off by quoting groucho marx to the effect that before i begin talking i have something to say. first thing that everyone asks me is how julia child, 6 ft. ii with that distinctive operatic voice ever managed to slip incognita behind enemy lines. the answer is simple. she didn't. we will get to that later. the other thing is despite what you may have read this morning in usa today bigger subtle but appetit was not a secret code. more serious note. the most common question i get is what brought me to this topic? how to come to read about julia child and how did i know that julia child, popular french chef of cookbook and television fame had worked for the country's

first intelligence agency? the truth is i read it in the new york post. i happened to see a headline the personal secret recipes of spies and it reported that she had been employee at the office of strategic servicess which as most of the uno is hastily set up by president roosevelt in the early days of the war. it is the forerunner of today's cia. i was in washington at the time. this would have been fall of 2008 and i was on my book for for the regulars which was about a group of british spies in the early days of the oss. at that time the national archives released a cache of previously classified documents. this was a huge haul of papers, classified records and it detailed 24,000 people who had worked for the oss during world war ii. these records identified for the first time the vast civilian and

military network of operatives who served their country during the time when it was threatened by nazis and fascists. some of these people were very notable but unusual and most unlikely possible secret agents. you had among supreme court justice arthur goldberg, actor sterling hayden, and the historian arthur schlesinger jr. but perhaps the most unusual and notable was the chef julia child. the news that she worked for the oss made headlines across the country. everywhere i went on this book for people stop and ask was she really a spy? what did she do? where did she go? i didn't know the answers to any of their questions so i began doing some research and one thing or another lead to the beginning of this book. like so many wartime secrets julia child's oss career was not a secret at all. the basic fact of her intelligence career could be looked up as easily as the

ingredients to her recipes. late in life she opened up about her past. she broke her vow of silence and talked about her escapades. she mentioned a few paragraphs about it in her memoir my life in france. it was mentioned in various books, one movie about her and paul had a brief bit about it and it was in the obituaries when she died in 2004 but as soon as this treasure trove of archives was released there was great excitement about the new material that might be understand caused a bit of a stern. after all the cia held on to these documents for many decades and had been very reluctant to release them. it took william casey, former director of the cia to finally convince them to release the records and they began slowly releasing them in 1981. these personnel records were the very last batch of papers to be

released. julia child's 130 paged oss personnel file, a classified document gave details of her dynamic career in the intelligence agency and made for some assassinating reading. the first finger that became clear to me was contrary to those newspaper headlines she was never actually a spy. but she very much hoped to become one when she joined the agency in 1942. likes of many young people in the wake of pearl harbor she moved to washington and was determined to serve her country. she was single, 30 and unemployed with several failed attempts at a career behind her. she was looking for a second chance at life. a chance to remake her life. a chance to do something special. she was the daughter of a well-to-do ranchers. she had graduated but spent most of her post college years as a social butterfly. she spent a lot of time playing golf and tennis, attending parties and having a good time.

she was keeping house for her widowed father and living a very sheltered life. she was by her own account a pretty plain person with no skill. she didn't speak any languages and had never been further out of the country than a day trip to to one of. she always felt she was bigger than life. she always thought she was destined for big things but i feared they had miserably failed to materialize. she was tall, athletic, she was sure she would be a natural for the army or navy reserve. when she was rejected the form letters came too tall. she was bitterly disappointed. she used family connections and got a job at the war department. note level secretary john. you as a typist and she loved it and was determined to work like a demon to get promoted. she got herself transferred to the offices of the legendary colonel william wild bill

donovan. the newly appointed head of the oss, a shadowy intelligence agency. as one reviewer noted the cloak and dagger business was like bread and batter to the and julia. she found a mysterious agency exciting and glamorous and loved her brilliant and eccentric colleagues. she found herself assigned to an experimental research project, working with an eminent -- jefferson coolidge was no less than a blue blooded descendant of thomas jefferson. rub on pilots who had been downed at c to protect them. they conduct all kinds of bizarre experiments designing the rescue cats and juliana's responsibility was to go to the fish market every day. for the first time in her life she loved her work and felt she had found her niche, the place where she belonged. the oss was a pretty strange

group of people. there were a lot of colorful personalities. the same tolerance for oddballs and eccentrics. she heard donovan's idea of the ideal female employee with a cross between a smith graduate, powers model and katie gibbs barrel. for once julia had the right qualifications. she even had a private in, after her mother's death that made her appear above reproach. the rumor in washington at the time was donovan only hired people from the ivy league and junior league because he believed if you were well off your less susceptible to bribes. this did not make him the least bit popular and critics scoffed at the oss stood for a marcos those social and oh so secret. the actual fact was the oss did not begin recruiting and the laughter all the other services had their pick and so donovan was forced to scramble to find

real talent. faced with building a huge intelligence gathering operation and administrative bureaucracy overnight he stood for the specific skills that he was looking for. he needed someone with brains to make decisions on the fly and street smarts to know when to throw out the rule book no sense of fear. this led to dubious characters and critics charge that donovan's lax standards meant dangerous people were employed as spies. donovan began by hiring lawyers on wall street firms as well as

other business men eat. rhetoric and inventors. with time being of the essence he simplified the process by keeping it within the family. if there was a girlfriend or sister who had to go to college and headed keeping typing speed promised a better job and faster exam. if she knew languages abroad she would be on one of the secret spy school and start intensive training. working for the oss washington, training to be spies and she was green with envy. one of them was a young woman named james foster. she was added ventures

california girl. jane was everything julia felt she was not. julia was stuck collating file, jane taking a crash course in espionage learning from forgery and cartography to fundamentals of what the oss called more operations, how to create subversive rumor campaigns to demoralize the enemy and create dissent. another oss colleague congressional named betty mcdonald. betty had grown up in honolulu and had been a young reporter and one of the first on the scene after the pearl harbor attack. because of her working knowledge of japanese and wartime experience would disappear, shea and jane on orientation courses,

with a submachine gun and colt 45. and college friends she couldn't speak a word. she had no special skills to recommend her to service. when word went out there donovan was looking for warm bodies, to help set up and running network of new intelligence bases in india and china she immediately volunteered. there was a man shortage and newly formed oss was understaff. it is important to remember when you think of the oss you generally think about the paramilitary and cooperations. they get all the glory. you think of grainy images parachuting behind enemy lines. the fact of the matter is of 13,000 employees about 4500 of which were within the vast

majority spend their time collecting and analyzing information. they are very unorthodox activities conducted behind the desk and women could be equally effective. majority of women lived in washington, help and support oss's far-flung mission, never went into active operation. the small percentage that did go overseas carried out this assignment with the same seat of the pants ingenuity that donovan inspired in every one that worked for him. julia got her wish in 1944 and joined a contingent of operatives sent to india. on a monthlong boat trip her travel orders were changed and

she was rerouted to speewun -- ceylon. they decided it would be a much nicer not to mention much cooler place for wartime headquarters. a mountaintop resort that had once been a key planter's oasis was not hard. nestle high in the hills it was a picture postcard pretty and had a buddhist temple and scenic lake. where you could get a boat and go rolling with your boyfriend. they were put up in a hotel called the queen's hotel and it was run down and overrun with rats and mosquitos and looked very grand. the office headquarters was housed on an old tea plantation a little bit over town and made of scattering primitive bamboo

plated huts but the palm trees and neat little paths running between the bungalows and tiny green tennis court made the place seem more like an island retreat than a wartime headquarters. the setting was dreamy and romantic but julia's job was anything but. is putting charge of the registry known as the camp's third venture and it contained all of their most top secret documents. the military operations, classified cables from joint chiefs in washington, code books as well as locations of all of the oss mentions around world and various codename of their oss agents. was an important job that carries grave responsibilities and came with the highest security clearance. juliet joked she developed a top-secret switch from handling so much sensitive material. she was never an operational agent going behind enemy lines but she did become a very able

and effective intelligence officer. by her last few months in china where we served in a remote military outpost she was working through difficult and sometimes dangerous conditions. she carried on through a devastating flood that swamped the base, a raging cholera epidemic and occasional outbreaks of crossfire from the chinese revolution that was overrun in their hands. by the end she was a seasoned veteran who would allow places -- slices of opium. it reminded her of boston's brown bread which staffers referred to as the operational payroll. she would often stay later looking back that the war made me. it was her personal and political coming of age that infused her with a new confidence and curiosity about life and where she met her

mentor and soulmates, paul child who designed war rooms for allied generals in the bungalow and was immediately smitten. he was 41, a decade older and head shoulder. he was world weary with withdrawn and was difficult. his colleagues regarded him as a loner, moody and set in his ways. not an easy man she confided to her diary. an artist who started out by skipping college and running off to work as a sailor he studied painting and sculpture and spoke impeccable french. he was a self-taught photographer, black belt in judo, jack of all trades. he considered himself a connoisseur of the finer things in life. art, food, fashion, poetry, women. he romanced the prettiest and

after his initial advances were rebuffed became the best of friends with jane foster who he described in his diary as a wild girl always in trouble and irresponsible. he adored and admired her. jane had become infamous for her inspired scheme to read these propaganda material in case of condoms. her plan was to have a summary released floating rubbers off the coast of indonesia and they would float ashore bearing the friendly messages of allied support. donovan was skeptical but gave her the green light. in the year they were all in ceylon the became inseparable and julie was left to pine for a man who took little notice of her. she wrote in her diary that she knew he was not attracted to her and liked more worldly bohemian types. she was not wrong in guessing he did not reciprocate her

feelings. paul wrote letters to his twin brother charles in which he raved about jane's madcap personality and hilarious wartime escapades and would know in passing that julia was a nice girl with good lay eggs. he dismissed her as a grown-up girl knowing she was inexperienced and overly e emotional. julius older and. she and paul were transferred to china where she trained native

agents. exotic delicacies like pig's knuckles. this resulted in days and days of dysentery commonly known to oss as the shanghai ship. can i say that? julia was head over heels in love and paul was still on the fence. he feared they were from very different backgrounds and dreaded meeting her right wing father. he worried julia would revert to being a pasadena socialite and suggested they return to their peacetime lives and see how they like each other in civilian clothes. they returned to the state and went their separate ways. paul back in washington and julia to california and she embarked on a mission to win him over. shea subscribe to the washington post and new york times much to her father's or so she could read what paul read. she even took up the novels of

henry miller which she found x rated but all aboard. she took her first cooking lessons so she could make him a homemade meal when he came to visit. finally paul succumb to julia's charge. he allowed his head to overrule his heart and they were married in september 1946. they went to paris and found jane married to an odd russian man but as paul wrote in his diary that day jane was just as lazy, impractical and lovable as she always been. the happiness of their reunion was short-lived as they were

soon embroiled in the red spy scare. a few years after the war the euphoria of victory had been replaced by new fears about the spread of communism and the cold war. after the fall of china in 1949 when mao tse tung led the communists and set up the people's republican increasing number of officials and truman's administration became convinced that communism pose a real threat to american security. by the end of 1950 spy fever gripped the country. alger hiss was convicted of perjury. jolliest and a full rosenberg were arrestarrested on espionag.

joseph mccarthy was a speculator who found his oil in communism. he made a speech in west virginia in which he claimed to had in his hand a list of 205 non communist currently employed in the state department. julia and paul were on route to their new post in germany when the book burning and finger-pointing began. work by everyone all the way to their close friend teddy white who covered china for time magazine were banned from the shelves of the libraries in europe. paul had to take the book of himself and see that they were destroyed. rumors about where mccarthy's tactics might lead spread like wildfire. they watched in dismay as one after another of the career foreign service officers they had served with in china including their closest friends were accused of disloyalty and

forced out while others quit in disgust. somehow mao's victory in china was seen as part of a master kremlin hot enable by a bunch of secret communists in the state department known collectively as the china athands. at the same time j. edgar hoover was out to destroy donovan's reputation. china went into the oss records knowing that many of them like jane and paul had been left of center. the letters in this period captured the atmosphere of fear and paranoia that permeated their diplomatic circles. julia considered mccarthy to be a desperate tower among her, she wrote and believed his vengeful campaign of innuendo and intimidation was destroying a

country that she loved. i am terribly worried about mccarthyism, she wrote in 1954. what can i do as an individual? it is frightening. i am ready to bear my breast, small size blow they may be, stick my neck out. and won't turn my back on any one. we will sacrifice cookbook, husband and self. inevitably jane foster and paul child were caught in the buzz. in 1955 paul received a telegram summoning him to washington. their old friend jane foster was being investigated by the fbi as a russian spy. when she was arrested in paris the authorities ransacked her apartment and found paul child's name in her address book. they found themselves in the

middle of a terrifying nightmare. fullscale fbi espionage investigation, lengthy interrogation, internal save department loyalty, neighbors and former employers were questioned about paul's past. his lose bohemian lifestyle and wind homosexual tendencies. if you want to have some verbal fun, he wrote julia in despair, try to prove the two fbi guys that you aren't a lesbian. how do you prove it? they decided they would not be intimidated and chose to stand by their friends no matter what the cost. in chaotic months to come they would have to endorse the shame of being accused as well as suspicions that would place a black mark by his name and curtail his career. ultimately they would also have

to come to a painful decision about whether jane was really a soviet spy or the victim of an overzealous fbi and an unscrupulous double agent. without giving away the whole story i would like to say that the point of this book was to examine the complex issues this close-knit book had to face in that controversial historical era. and to explore the intriguing ways that personality -- how these two adventuress california girls who came to the wartime friends and intelligence colleagues came to meet such different fates, one becoming 11 american icon and the other ending up a lonely exile. thank you.

[applause] any questions? no questions? [inaudible] >> how long did take to write the book? >> three years. i had done the previous book about the oss so i had a great deal of material which helped speed up the process and i was ready for the period and the carriers but the last book i did was from the british side so this one was from the american side and it is based on their diaries and letters but there's such a wonderful correspondence between the two that i had a vast and colorful archive to work with. [inaudible] >> all the families were

cooperative and even families of minor characters in the book who were colleagues who were on the boats in china, gave me their letters and diaries so the vivid descriptions you get. you get a lot of dialogue and themes that make you feel as though you are chair and the reason is so many diaries. i had so many characters are limited the number of characters that i named but all of the ookow bos aheregai$ q cfg mao

remembered. i could tell you where they were or what they were doing. they were a broad. they stayed such close friends they can exchanging letters throughout the 50s. even after the war on was able to keep up with them and they were very frank in these letters and very moving about their fear of losing their jobs and what is happening to their friends. you get a feeling for the time.

[inaudible] >> during the time of the inquisition in washington where people sympathetic? with the american people sympathetic to julia child? any record of how they responded? >> it was paul taken in for the full loyalty inquiry and because they didn't know it was happening, there were living in germany at the time and he got the telegram summoning him back and the telegram was very vague. they even fart in the beginning he would be offered a promotion and when he got there no one would talk to him. no one would meet his eyes or tell him what he was doing there and it became clear he was in some sort of serious trouble and he was pulled in for this very long fbi interrogation and he cabled julia in germany saying it is like kafka. i don't know what will become of me. that went on for almost a month. they were able to unite again in

paris. it was several more months until he got himself cleared though in fact they continually investigated him for the next year. so it didn't become public in the sense that there weren't headlines about it. hundreds of people were under investigation in the 50s. the hollywood 10 had already happened. charlie chaplin had been under investigation for months and fled to europe. you had very high profile people under investigation everyday. so paul child did not make the move. julia had not published her cookbooks. they weren't celebrities but their friends all new. everyone in the state department knew. it was humiliating and terrifying. paul predicted that his career would probably not recover from

it. >> was paul brought before the committee himself? or just by the committee investigators? >> he was subjected to a full loyalty inquiry that was the fbi investigated him. the united states information service investigated him. his past going back ten years but he wasn't dragged before a senate subcommittee. in the end, even though he thought he was a liberal as you can get without being a communist, they thought he was probably a homosexual and accused him of all kinds of other sort of nefarious acts, julia was from a well the right wing family and her father was one of the early supporters of nixon and she told -- pull every string she could washington and

he was finally cleared. >> -- [inaudible] >> an interesting and complicated question. if you look at the arc of their relationship she was a very insecure, inexperienced girl when he met her. she turned herself inside out to become someone that he would like and admire and perhaps would one day love. in a way he became her mentor. he educated her, shaped her interests. and through that she took up cooking and fell in love with french cuisine. and chief emerged from all of that completely different person. a much more confident,

outspoken, charismatic individual and she credited him so much with that that when she became a celebrity virtually overnight with the publication of her cookbook, she worked on it while he supported her for ten years. it came out and it was an overnight success and she literally step from being a nobody into the limelight and becoming a celebrity and it was interesting. she would always use the plural. we did this, we did that in referring to herself and paul because of the enormous debt of gratitude she felt he -- she owed him. >> how did you get interested in this genre? >> good question. i am from a war family. my grandfather was the president of harvard when world war ii, in the early days of world war ii

appointed by president roosevelt to be one of the men who led the organization of the man hadn't project and development of the bomb. i grew up in the far east with wartime scientists and politicians and the men who led the war effort. i got hooked on war stories at an early age and war movies and an early age and got stuck. >> what other books have you written? >> i wrote a book called tuxedo about a group of physicists who congregated in a secret laboratory in tuxedo park, new york and began experimenting with radar and ultimately they would lead the wartime project to develop what won the war in europe. then i wrote a book about the

development of the bond and a book about british spies and the development of the paul child. oss. you see a theme. the lady in pink. >> what happened to jane? >> i can't tell you that. you have to read the book but i am glad you are curious. you have to find out. any other questions? yes? >> after these investigations were over, did they have better feelings toward the u.s.? >> that is one of the things that is very nice about the book. you see different people's reactions. betty mcdonald went through this process as well. she was married to colonel wapner who had been their boss

and he helped donovan burns, he burned up the papers of the oss personnel before the fbi could get some. she never became bitter about the u.s.. they were very bitter about that period and they really hated mccarthy but they stayed very optimistic in the ability of people to learn and change. after all they all returned to the united states and lived very happily in the united states from 1960 on. they weren't better about that but they did have very sad and complicated feelings about the 1950s even though that is when so much good happened to julia in her career. she would always have mixed feelings about that period of time.

[inaudible] >> how helpful was the government? or unhelpful? >> you don't want to say unhelpful. that is kind of an active term. they make it hard for you. i had to order all the oss document that for almost every character in the book the fbi files. jane foster's fbi file is more than 65,000 pages. if you can imagine. you need a number of other characters whose fbi files are longer. you get these papers in packets of 200 at a time. anytime you need to request that you need to double check and it takes three months. it is a very arduous process to go through the freedom of

information act. it takes the patience of a st.. and you don't get everything. when you do get the fbi files they are adapted. all sections are weighted out. they knew can go through another set of appeals to argue that they should give you those papers. it is a never-ending process. i have a feeling i will be receiving fbi files on paul and jane for years to come. i hope i don't find anything shocking. >> since they were such letter writers, did they ever write a letter to mccarthy? >> no. not that i know of. it is possible but i wouldn't think so because they hated him on sight from the beginning and it only got worse. they wrote an awful lot of letters about him. there are just reams and reams

of entry screens against him in the letters and diaries and it is fascinating to read how it darkened from the 1940s through the hollywood 10 when they watched all of the persecution of the artists and directors and actors in hollywood and he moved and set his sights on the state department. you see fear and in zaidi deepen and it is compelling reading. thanks for coming today. [applause] >> you are watching booktv on c-span2, 48 hours of nonfiction authors and books every weekend. >> let's return there for to the young single dude, not a child but not an adult. i see him as the result of four

huge shifts. .. >> men don't have these pressing limits. they can take their time, and they do. the second force shaking the child-man is a highly segmented and uncensored media

environment. in the past, the young man had never paid much attention to tv and magazines. by the mid '90s, they found each other and fell in love. we we got maxim magazine, cable news networks, hollywood movies also discovered the formula for attracting young males -- car crashes and cyborgs and embarrassing bodily fluids and exposed female body parts. one of the most successful guy cable channels is called spike. it came on the air in 2003 with reruns of star trek and the original show called babe hunt. in which contestants try to detect the differences in two almost identical picture of nearly naked women. now, i tried to find an image to show you, but i would have gotten kicked out. so the