the treasury or it is printed by a system of federally turf banks. counterfeiting subsequently decide -- declines quite dramatically not only because of that but you have the founding of the secret service. his original mandate is to aggressively go after counterfeiters. >> was a controversial to get to a single currency? >> extremely. there are a number of steps the federal government has to take. the most dramatic is to break the power of the state pains which a deeply entrenched. states like new york and pennsylvania have congressmen and senators who advocate very aggressively for these interests because they benefit enormously from a fairly chaotic monetary system. >> the author of this book, moneymakers, the wicked lives and surprising investors of three that tories counterfeiters.

.. >> shortly after 9/11 we need more reporters to go overseas. i walked into my foreign editor's office and i said, hi, my name is kim barker. i have no children and i am single. therefore, i am expendable. you can send me whatever you want. he then held up an envelope and he said we know who you are.

get ready to go to pakistan. sure enough my name was on the back of the envelope. so i got ready to go. on my first trip to pakistan, i made the mistake of ordering sushi from room service. [laughter] i thought it was a really good idea to go running off where john walker lindh, the american taliban was from. and my editors were saying no, no, no. slow down, slow down. a semi-to afghanistan instead where i forgot my money, and started off by asking somebody where the nearest cash station was. it was then that i learned it was to cash station in a war zone. that left me at the mustafa hotel. does anybody here know what you stop the hotel is? there are some afghan files here. it's one of the first hotels to

open in kabul and it was basically a series of rooms separated by windows where you could hear everybody inside the next room and everybody got basically a bike lock you put on your door. the price is about 50 bucks a night and you could hear every conversation everybody was having. so i went to the guy at the front desk, and i said we've got a problem. he said what's your problem? i said i have no money so i guess it's more your problem. at which point the open of his drawer. he was a new jersey one afghan camp and he said how much money do need. he pulled out a roll of $100 bills. i said $400. he just peeled it off and handed it to me. and said i know you're good for it, which basically gave me two lessons about afghanistan. the first was the hospitality and incredible generosity of afghans. and the second was the lessons of a large rolls of $100 bills. eventually i was assigned to the

south asia bureau chief for the "chicago tribune." it was an assignment i took with excitement and i figured i would stay there for maybe two years, three years at most. but i fell in love with these places, and i just grew to really care about everybody i worked with from farouk, thank you to in the book to as a translator, who basically he guided me through everything in afghanistan, to some odd, my driver in pakistan, he would follow me around and pick up my passport, when it fell out of my bag. and he which is, he was always like you're leaving money in the car, you going to be taken advantage of. but simad always had my back. as the years went by i really became more and more disputed with what i saw happening in pakistan and afghanistan with the direction isolate these countries taking with the lack of attention to what was happening. and i felt, almost heartbroken. and at the same time what seemed

like it was finally renewed attention on the region, when president obama and his run for office basically said that afghanistan and pakistan is where it's at, not iraq. just at the time when it became an important story, the crisis in american newspapers finally hit the bankrupt "chicago tribune," and i lost my job. how addicted was a in march 2009 when they told me to come home to chicago and become a metro correspondent? a perfectly decent job. i was so addicted i decided it was a better idea to quit my job and stay in afghanistan. unemployed. i would figure it out, i said. so i quit and i stayed there. and think of the council on foreign relations actually end up giving me a fellowship in new york because it finally coming out and is able to write this book. in which i very much try to use dark humor to pull you through

it and the whole idea of a very new person going over there so that we -- readers who know nothing might be up to follow what's happened. so that's the book and now i'm reported and investigative reporter at propublica. i got a serious site a serious site. i figure i would read a couple things from the book this evening and then open it up to questions. you can ask me what everyone except i'm not going to do that dance. i should say the book is designed into two sections. the first section is afghanistan, and it's called koppel hi. for obvious reasons of anybody who has been there, and the second section is called pakistan. not just because it is kind of wacky and pakistan but also because i kind of feel like what we've done over there with our foreign policy is the edgy gimmick game of whack-a-mole when we come in one place and hit the insurgents and they pop out at another place. every single chapter is named

for a different song in my ipod. so that is another part of the taliban shovel, not just going back and forth across the border. so this chapter is called the deadbeat club. it's toward the end of the book and i'm with my translator/fixers/s. friend, farouk. as soon as i landed in kabul farouk nitro to the defense ministry to ask about negotiations with the taliban. farouk parked the car. we started walking. i had always regarded this long path leading halfhearted practicing afghan soldiers as my own personal march towards sexual harassment. i thought happy thoughts. farouk talk to way past the first checkpoint, i think we reached the second checkpoint. keep going, farouk muttered. i kept walking staring straight ahead. but it was no use. the women had spotted me.

one lifted up the lacy curtain and she started yelling. i kept walking. finally, i was taught by a man with a gun and sent back to the women. inside the dreaded room with the bad things happen. went to my person open to every single zipper pull it out every lipstick and crumpled bill. another took me. i held out my arms out to decide and grimaced. she ran her hands under my armpits to grab my breasts, squeezed. nice, she said. [laughter] just to be one example of an american woman who would blow herself up. i said to her, just one. doesn't happen. we could never commit that much to anything. [laughter] in response she smiled, grabbed my butt and ran her hands of my inner thighs all the way to my crotch, then she smiled, pinched my cheek and announced very pretty. and patted me on the back. i walked out feeling dirty.

for years whenever people asked how foreign women were treated in afghanistan, i always said better than in pakistan. we were rarely fills up in public and an easier time than the male reporters. we did in the women he wouldn't would never reveal their secrets to a man and we got bizarre access to the mint and even the conservative mullahs who seem charmed by the idea of western women running around. we were the third sex and end up to more exclusive status than western and. the checkpoints were bad. we were felt to roughly and search far more than her male counterparts, by women to ask him who would try to take my lipstick and held up tampons in a threatening manner asking what they were for. it was a problem in pakistan-india as well as if the women hired for these jobs were told they were being hired because women had different parts than men so they do their primary duty was to search only the female parts.

at every checkpoint for every foreign woman it was the same. blocking sites and darkroom and several women drinking tea, assume the position. arms out to the side, legs spread, grit your teeth through the groping, often a secret you consisted of a brisk breeze, a crotch grab and a slap on the back. sometimes male guards would come watch the show. meanwhile, afghan men like farouk were barely touched. in kabul places were known as the ninth level. the presidential palace where the women were shoved up against the wall the coming along because i neglected to wear a broad. and the defense ministry which featured five checkpoints, to with very assertive women. so on this day farouk and i pushed onto the third and fourth checkpoint. men come easy. then i faced the last and worst checkpoint inside the ministry headquarters or a shriveled woman with bright orange hair and white roots waiting inside.

she grabbed, yanked, bold, squeezed, searched. i felt like a vegetable. i turned to go but not fast enough. she pointed at her cheek and puckered her lips. she wasn't letting me leave until i kissed her. so i kissed on both cheeks. good, she said. she patted my cheek. then finally we made it to the office of a defense ministry official who was nicknamed the silver fox for his hair and manners. he stood up, laughing and raising his hands when he saw us, he pointed to one shake, i shifted. this is not afghan protocol. in most places and every woman kissing a man on the cheek was a can to having sex. but it is always been silver fox's protocol. he pointed to the other cheek, then the first one. three he announced. i couldn't seem to anyone today with kissing have a dozen afghans. that's it for that particular excerpt. [applause]

>> i'm going to read one more excerpt and then i will open it up to question. if you have no questions then you'll be forced to hear me read yet another excerpt. so i hope you're thinking of the question now. this chapter involves the first time i met the former prime minister of pakistan, now are sharif. and so this is right after benazir bhutto have been killed and his january 2008. i need to meet the line of punjab, or maybe the tiger. no one seemed to know which the line sharif was nicknamed after. some fans rode around with strapped to their cars. others talked about the tiger of punjab. by default, tranninety former prime minister had become the most popular opposition leader in the country. he was already the most popular politician in punjab which was the most powerful of pakistan's four provinces. home to most of the army leaders

and passed with. some people described sharif as the homer simpson of pakistan. others consider him a right wing wingnut. still other seed he could save the country. i called everyone i knew to try to get an interview. you only get 15 minutes with me, the president finally told me referring to sharif by his honorary title. maybe 20 at the most. i flew in on a friday morning and we drove for an hour towards the town and sharif's home. the closer we got, the more sharif. the place might have well been called the land given the animism park an effect his name and picture when everything from hospitals to giant billboards. everywhere i looked sharif, indigo, slightly pudgy, topless hair plugs, stared at me like the cheshire cat. guards checking advocate searching my bag meticulously. the grounds wisdom of a cross between the golf course and

easy. several football fields of management grass and wild animals in cages. leading up to the miniature palace that looks slightly like a wedding cake with the different layers trimmed that resembled frosting that the driver was big enough for a limousine to execute you turn. i walked inside and was told to wait. the inside of house appeared to have been designed by saudi arabia. a hodgepodge of crystal chandeliers, silk curtains, old accents, marvel. along with photographs of sharif, and slain former lebanese prime minister. finally, i was summoned. i hopped up and walked toward the living room as to raggedy stuffed lions with rose petals nudity. so maybe sharif was the lion of punjab. in southern sharif stood up when it finally pressed shirt, navy

vest and a natty scarf. he shook my hand and offered me a seat in an ornate chair. the sitting room was a study in pink rather than in gold. with golden curlicues on various pictures and couches and crystal vases everywhere. many of the knickknacks were gifts from world leaders. his press aide tapped his watch, looked at me and raised his eyebrows. i got the message and proceeded with my questions as fast as i could. but he soon became clear this would be unlike any interview i have ever done. you are the only senior opposition leader left in pakistan. how are you going to stay safe while campaigning? in pakistan campaigns are not run through tv and pressing the flesh was a job requirement. candidates won over voters by holding rallies of tens of hundreds of thousands of people. even the sharif was not personally running his appearance would help win voters for anybody in his party. sharif look at me, side, and shook his head. i don't know, it's a good

question. what do you think, jim? [laughter] >> i don't know that another former the former prime minister of pakistan. so what we do? really, i don't know. what you think? i don't know. this building an aqua position. giving security advice to sharif. it's got to be really difficult. you have these elections coming up. you can't just sit here at home what should i do, he asked? i can't run a campaign sitting at my house on the television. i had to find way to turn this back on him. it's interesting, i said. you keep asking me questions about what i think any seemed like he do that a lot. ask other people questions. it seems like you're also went to change your mind if circumstances change. i do take people's advice, he said. i believe in consultation. after 20 minutes tranninety eight started twitching. i fired up my question about musharraf, the main sharif had named army chief only to be

overthrown by him. i do not want to say much about musharraf. he must step down and allow democracy. he is so impulsive, so a rabbit. no, you named this man army chief and then tried to fire him and he overthrew you? he sent you into exile and now you're back. what do you think about him? >> sharif out and try to duck the question. appointing mr. wishart as chief of army staff, that's my biggest mistake. i stood up, the aide was re: stand i should probably be going, i said. thanks very much for your time. our schedule is very busy. she can ask a few more questions. i sat down. i went through most of my important questions so i recycle bin or after what he was a fundamentalist. sharif dismissed the idea pointing to his friendship with the clintons. i try to leave again. giving us overstaying my welcome but sharif said i could ask more

questions. one more i said, then i asked the question that was really on my mind. which are you, the lion or the tiger? [laughter] sharif didn't even blink. i am the tiger he said. but why do some people call you the lie in? i didn't know. i am the tiger. [laughter] spent why do you have to stuffed lions? they were a gift. i like them. [applause] >> with i'm going to open it up for questions or leisure what you may read and overact more, you're going to have to ask some question. i would ask you to wait for the microphones to get to you so that people here get a chance to the question as well and i don't have to repeat it. there's one in the corner way over there.

[inaudible] >> i think the microphone -- is it on? really? can you not hear me? you couldn't hear me at all? like this? like that? does that help? well, you know, somebody could've said something beforehand. >> i heard you fine. >> okay. i were repeat the question as well. [inaudible] >> thank you. [inaudible] what clothing did and did not work for you. >> broths work. i learned that. i always dressed very conservative and afghanistan and pakistan. i would wear longsleeved clothes and always would shirts that covered me and wear baggy pants

and try to be at least what is going to meet people in public. and it was the one time where farouk had me wear a burqa on a trip to kandahar. he was really embarrassed and ashamed to ask me to wear a burqa because he was so proud when he was a pashtun come he was so proud when his mother and his sisters got to take off their burkas after the taliban left. so to have to asked me to wear a burqa was a tough thing for him but it was june 2006 and we're driving to kandahar, and the situation was bad. so i said fine, farouk. taking up a burqa. he throws one at me and i put it on and the back of it, those of you who know afghanistan know how wrong this is. the front of it hit me about your and the back of hit me back here. so in other words, i was basically walking around wearing the equivalent of a miniskirt in kandahar.

every elder i met said it's really great you were wearing that, you are trying to observe our culture, but it is very short. is that the south in kabul now? [laughter] so i think i'm in short i would just try, i would just try to wear what made people comfortable. but when we went to parties in kabul, i'm not going to begin like i was going to staff its. i would wear those outfits over what i were there but then i would wear normal clothes, western close to inside parties. all right, next question. >> yes, you in the back. wait for the microphone. >> i'm just wanting if you have any thoughts about the way the "chicago tribune" and so many news organizations are shutting down euros and a total meltdown going down and what you think of that? >> i told you so. know, so you say, i do have a part of that feeling. i feel like it's important. and having a lot of different voices cover for news is very

important. the advantage i had with the "chicago tribune" is we were not "the new york times" or even the "washington post" or the "l.a. times." i mean, we were a third tier, second tier newspaper that didn't care if i did every single store that came up which meant i could do an important stores and i could take time to do stories that mattered. which meant i had different coverage just like "the boston globe" had different coverage over there. now that you've got many fewer voices you just get the same stories coming out. i think you saw that with what happened in the mideast and even japan to everyone was scrambling to figure out what was going on so you have a lot of scary stories in the beginning or my god the muslim brotherhood will kill us all. lots of people who did know what was happening on the ground. that's important. >> you write in the book that

there was really no green zone, and it doesn't appear that you at any real protection other than your guide, farouk. was there any sort of come in the back of your mind among you and your fellow journalists like what happened to daniel pearl and, you know, every day you went out? did you ever wake up and think, i shouldn't go out today and? >> no. if you thought that you would never be the person that went over to pakistan and afghanistan because you wouldn't be able to leave your hotel. but like i always say to my parents, bad things can happen in chicago and they can happen in new york. and i think it's all about taking necessary precautions and trusting that things will work out. you know, i trusted farouk. i never would've gone off to meet people by myself and i was more of a chicken that a lot of reporters over there. so i was saved while i was still able to cover the news.

but definitely anytime eating habits are journalists over there, we all commuted back and forth and we are all checking to see what's happening. it affects the entire community. >> there's a question here and then we can go back over there. one seconds. >> i wonder if it's a few words about being a female journalist in a conflict, post-conflict environment? >> yes. >> did you have to take special precautions and how did you deal with difficult situations? >> a friend and i decided we wanted to invent something called the ascii be built that way to put that would protect us but never quite got around to it. we never worked out how it would shock a person pinching us and it wouldn't shock herself. but check out as a consequent. when you're in a crowd as when he would be grabbed and that's a

lot people in the renewal of red and in your times op-ed that about, my reaction was not necessarily mature but i just our punching people. i got angry. and that's something that happens to women that doesn't necessary happen to all men, but my friend, bob, was a photographer who travels to the region said no, kim, it happens to us to. we just don't talk about like you women. so who knows if that is the case? a good thing about being a female correspondent in those places is the idea that we were the third which means i got to talk to afghan women about all the things that happen to them and they felt much more come to in sharing their stories with me than they necessarily would with a western man. then we also, i can when the last male journalist that cause i talked to, but i think if you count them up the men versus the women it will be a much longer list for the female journalist. you use what you got as a

journalist, right? the men go for drinks, whatever. everyone uses what they have. as long as you get the end it and you are professional about it and if someone wants to see just because you're a crazy woman running around the countryside, i'm kind of find with the. i think it's important to go back to your original question that there are female correspondents over there. i do know if you guys read the story that "the new york times" did an about what happened to them in libya. but if you have a go check it out but i think it's one of the best things that's been written about this situation on the ground, especially since they got taken by folks that were allegedly in charge. and lindsay was very brave in that story. anyone else? i know there's a woman in the back with a question? canyon me now? am i doing better? >> what are you going to do now? >> if i told you i would have to kill you. propublica is a nonprofit if you

are the money with it. it does investigate reporting and long-term reporting, and where based on line but we partner with mainstream organizations to run the stories. and am working on domestic stories now actually. a couple of them should be running in the next couple weeks. we can't talk about what we worked on because then obviously you would know what we were working on. >> follow-up with you. [inaudible] >> .net. i made a decision for a specific reason to come back in the states. last me as i was coming to the end of my fellowship at the council on foreign relations, i had two job offers. one was from a news agency to run its bureau in kabul, great job, a lot of money. and then one was at job to run propublica. to me as a much scary decision to take the one domestically to do something completely different. i think for my sanity, for my family, and for trying to get some sort of balance in my life i had to jump off that convicted

some people who can do for ever and i respect the hell out of them. i don't think i am one of them. one thing you notice if you read this book, you have to, but may you read book, is that i become a very unlikable at a certain point. i mean a very unlikable. i did that deliver me. i was punching people, i was dismissive, i was drinking too much. those of you who met a waitress came back from afghanistan and pakistan who are in the room know that i couldn't sit still at night. it was almost like i was a junkie coming off something. now that i better the last thing i want to think about is going back. although it is exciting was happening over there now. [inaudible] >> was very exciting is happening over there now? >> nothing in afghanistan and pakistan that place a phone operator. we'll have so much space in our international heads to wrap them around. right now it's all about the middle east, about what's

happening in libya, yemen, in terms of these revolutions happening very democratically motivated, and what's happened in libya with this decision by nato to go in and their decision to be a no-fly zone and what that entails. and essentially opening up a third front for the u.s. military there. and that's a major story. then there's the japan. a very major story at the same time. there's a lot going on in international news right now. a friend of mine from the "chicago tribune" sent me an e-mail and he said you would be so happy, for the first time since you left there are to for news stories on the front page. and i said, that kind of makes me sad. but yes, i am happy. >> kim, did you feel the need to change the views of anyone -- the identities of anyone you about in his books because death. i did want to get anybody in trouble. there's a deliberately i do not talk about any afghan women in

the book because it seems to me a lot of times when you write about afghan women, it comes back to bite them in the rear, so to speak. i know we are on c-span so i don't want to swear. i had an instance ask where an afghan woman who was written about in a previous book ended up having to take shelter with me in india. i put her up for a couple of months. she's not a really bad situation, and a lot of that happened because of this book that was written. so i want to be very sure that ever i wrote about was either a, couple with that, or b., protected, or see, nawaz sharif our public figures. you've got to take up your own it if you're a public figure. so simad my driver and pakistan come his name has been changed because he is still there and i want to make sure he is protected. a couple of my ex-boyfriends, i changed their name because i thought it was there. they didn't cite on to date me to be in a boat.

one of my ex-boyfriends come to them were totally fine with it. the other names people are journalist and they read everything that was about them. but then there was the case of farouk. i don't know how much of anyone in the room no farouk? yeah, so i had farouk's name change. i did not want to name farouk and i let him read the entire book and he is now studying in a western country. he just said, no, kim, i am a farouk. [laughter] you're going to name me. so, you know, i said fair enough, farouk. and i did. yes, one of you. [inaudible] >> oh, come on, really? journalists, c-span. i mean, i don't think -- might

answer is really important to the u.s. is getting out of afghanistan, right? then we will see what happens. do i think there's a way to go forward in the region that will provide more stability than the path we're on now? yes, but i think the situation is getting so tired that i don't know if switching our path at this point will gain anything. i had to think that it would because i've got a lot a very good friends who i still care about very much over in afghanistan and pakistan. >> you admit to a certain, on your part, willingness at the beginning to the activities, the culture, particularly with your guide. how sort of prevalent was that when you tell a journalist about this typical american arrogance? and how did the afghans, did they let you know right away that hey, you know, this is not

proper? >> afghans are not quiet people. i mean, they will tell you just but they will let you know through actions win, whether they do something, how they feel about. the truth is always out. was everybody like me when they went over there? probably not. everybody is an individual but i think a lot of journalists just want to store and they go in there, and they might offend certain sensibility. i've seen it time and time again. i wanted to write a book where i didn't seem like i knew everything, where i was honest about the fact that i didn't. so people could come on this journey with ones like to be a new person there and how it was to find out everything, for oneself. i've read those books by foreign correspondents were they know everything, and always kind of bored. no offense to the people have written those books. they probably do.

>> i'm sure you're fully with the greg mortenson and i was wondering if you ever met him over there, and with what you said about being the insurgent party up and they pop up in another place, do you still believe if you ever do believe, his mission, his competition being a front lines in afghanistan, i don't know, for the girls? >> wow. on tv. [laughter] greg mortenson, i never met greg mortenson in afghanistan and pakistan. i have huge respect for him and his mission. you think i would've met him because he is also from montana, but no, we have never run across each other. i think that anything you can make a small difference in anyone's life it's an amazing thing. so if you can start a school that gives the children in a village a chance to go back to school, what a great a congressman to have. is that a way for to solve the entire, all the problems in the region?

no. i think he would admit that. there needs to be more. all right, more questions. >> if the u.s. gets out of afghanistan can we forget about it against the? again, can we forget about it. the question is will we forget about it again. i think that i would like to say that i would hope that we didn't forget about afghanistan and again, and i think it would come to divide us if we did you sort of let it fall off the map like it did after the soviets first left. i think really 9/11 and a lot of what happened since 1989 episodes left afghanistan can be traced back to the fact we just abandon the place. and i do think there are people in the american government and in europe who believe that's a bad idea. i just don't know if they will

win, considering everything that is happening right now. >> "chicago tribune" lost -- [inaudible] how are you getting about your in depth story? >> i feel very good about the future of in depth story coverage in propublica. seriously, it's one of the gaps that we are very much trying to fill and there are other places trying to do the same thing, but insurance is how i feel about it at mainstream newspapers, and leisure "the new york times" or the "washington post," so the place and with lots of resources, it's very difficult to do these long-term stories that are very important. it's sad to me looking to see what's happening to newspapers that i grew up with, which i will not name. what's happened to the coverage of what's happened to the fact they just don't have investigative teams anymore. they do have the same sort of

respect for storytelling and narrative stories they are used to. >> excuse my ignorance, but what is the taliban java? >> i'm not going to do the dance. >> is at a dance? >> i named it the "the taliban shuffle" for several reasons. not one, i felt like that's what euros were doing a lot of the time torches shuffling back and forth between the border of afghanistan and pakistan. that's what the taliban were doing going back and forth. that's what the western governments were doing going back and forth. and it also its would work with the fact like the one thing that would keep me sane in a lot of places there was music. and so i thought why not come up with "the taliban shuffle" biggest are soft with welcome to the terror dome and end with hotel california. [laughter]

>> just one if you talk a bit about, i think he talked about about this in your book, but the difference between reporting and switches become a part of a lot of the culture in the last two years, and a lot of reporting that you did and the difference between that. >> between that and what? >> going off the reservation. >> i get the question. the program for those of you enough away with it, i think very much everyone is at this point is it takes a just and puts them with a military unit. you go out with a military unit and you see things through their eyes. a lot of people hate the whole idea and they have hated it since it started really an iraq. because they say, gives you, you have a reporting, you don't get the other side and on and on. i thought embeds were great as long as you saw how limited they

were. they were one-sided reporting but how else would you be able to get with the u.s. military and to see what they're thinking about what you're doing, to his in the things they said. i mean, some this was coming out, getting but we destroyed today in rolling stone about they kill teams? it's a store if you haven't read it you should read it. it's about this company that basically kills afghans almost for sport. and went with the intention to do that. when you're with the u.s. military you get a sense of what the culture is like, not that the cultures like the. because most deadly that is an aberration. but you here have guys dr. chubb and other women talk to the guys. you see what it is like. you see what the interaction is like with the afghans and how in so many ways limited it is. because you see translates better than drop in there. you know are the wrong guy. they will tell you jack, i had

no idea what the person just said. they which is sort of go with it. if that's the people you're relying on to explain what's happening, that's a problem. so i'll always you to embed report as one part of a larger story. it would also allow you to go to places that otherwise just wasn't safe to go to. in the south most of the time. [inaudible] you talk a bit about your addictions, living there. and i'm just curious about when your job was no longer available there, how long between that time and time to left, what did you imagine yourself doing to keep you there and how did you finally decide, okay, it's time to go? >> can anybody say ptsd? i mean, i got the call in afghanistan in march 2009 that it was time to come home. we decided to bring you back to

be a metro reporter. again, a great job at the "chicago tribune" that most people in journalism would say of course you would take that job. and i quit and that was the end of march, beginning of april. i came back to the u.s. and i have some sort of vision that i was going to be this new sort of person that i would write a book. this book was over there and i would would also become a freelancer and then i just sort of which stay there and live in kabul and make enough money to somehow live. it would be great and i can still continue with this lifestyle. two weeks later i was offered a fellowship at the council on foreign relations which started four months there and i thought to myself that gives you money come you can come into the council on foreign relations fellowship but used to be able to go back and forth between there and afghanistan. it's not like you're leaving afghanistan pick a result like as bargaining with myself like no, you will still be here but you just come back for the

fellowship. but then once i got back to i realized how unrealistic was to try to do a fellowship in both places your the longer i was here i realized i was kind of messed up and i need to get out of that situation. i think that comes through in the book, if anybody has read it, how i was kind of messed up. >> so when you say like maintain your lifestyle in kabul, like, what does that mean? did you have an apartment? didn't have running water. what did you what kind of lifestyle did you have? >> earlier that you're actually we had gotten power in kabul so it was actually agree. we had electricity without generators are the lifestyle is like this. everybody works really, really hard to go to work. they come back. they work six or seven days a week. then they start hanging out and drinking and hanging out and going out to dinners and like

you are an adolescent again, or you are in college again are your in kabul high. that's what the lifestyle was like. the french restaurants which has a beautiful garden there and a swimming pool. the people are going no, no. because they know. that's what we did on thursday nights. she might not have done it but she knows. on thursday night someone would have a big party and we go to that big party. it's crazy. it's crazy how we lived over there. but it's like a tournament in a their, i knew her from pakistan and to refer to it as being frog in boiling water. we had no idea we were going. we thought this a perfectly normal. it was a perfectly normal way to live. [inaudible] >> showers. sometimes you have running water but if the generator was running you oftentimes didn't have running water. sometimes the water would not be

hot. so all lot of -- there was the occasions where you have to boil water and sit in a tub with a little pale and go like this. i've got to take in the winter, hygiene wasn't good. you just go days, shower what you need to shepherd when you're out on him that it was a baby wipes, if that. you know, i remember i was the it is that it was a good idea to bring only contact lenses to helmand in june. when anybody knows anybody about how my nose that's when the winds come in. so it's basically like i'm trying to put these contact lenses in, like rubbing my eyeballs with sandpaper. she hates the fact that she wants to get up. now. i liked it. [inaudible] >> the food wasn't great. [inaudible] >> okay, any other questions?

>> you mentioned that you came up with the idea to write the book before the cfr fellowship at what inspired you to write about? >> well, it was something we have talked about, the correspondence had talked about in kabul about how crazy the life was and if somebody really should write an absurd book about what it was like to live there. and edges would've felt like if i expanded it to become if i did both afghanistan and pakistan and i try to tell in the same manner, and wrote in a dark comic way that is occasionally very sad because it most deadly wasn't a laugh riot been over there. that might get people to read about pakistan and afghanistan and start talking about it. so it was something i always thought about doing, but as soon by john came to an end i knew that that was what i wanted to do. any more questions? okay. >> i think she might have been alluding to the early.

what is the impact of you losing your job and a but coming back having a lot less coverage and a lot less reporters? what's the impact? what's the impact on the united states knowing about what is going on? >> i think that we don't know what's going on over there. with only a few people covering it, and that basically well control is the dialogue at that point is what's coming out of washington, d.c., and what people say there is going on, or what people are saying what's going on an embassy there but you don't have people on the ground covering the story. look at the tv coverage over there and help tv bureaus have slashed their staff over there. there's almost nobody everything over there. thank god for al-jazeera english, to be honest. it newspapers, in your times does a great job that they have got to cover every single thing that's happened i think it's important to other voices over there to get the stories that not anybody gets the.

the same thing propublica does, tricycle after the different stories. that would be a great thing if you do that all the time. one of the stories i was working on before lost my job was the kabul blanket all the stuff has been coming out about the couple then, i've known that for two and a half years and i never got us toward an. those are some of the things you miss. anyone? what time is it? [inaudible] >> okay, i think we're supposed to go into it, right? >> i haven't read the book but i intend to. but i do have a question -- >> sold. one copy at a time. >> if you were given a choice, would you describe yourself as the lion or the tiger? [laughter] >> that's a good one. you can't really improve on the line, i am the tiger, can you?

no, i am the tiger. thanks very much for coming here this evening. really appreciate it. [applause] >> kim barker is a reporter for propublica. for more visit propublica.org and search her name. you can also follow her on twitter at kim underscore parker. >> with the rejection of the 2008 google books some of the future of a complete online library is in question. joining us now to discuss this issue is sarah weinman. the news editor of publishers marketplace. if you could begin by giving us a brief overview of what the google books settlement was and who are the parties involve? >> sure. the google books settlement arose from the original lawsuit that was filed by the association of american

publishers and the authors guild. they objected to this, and if you google was -- google was getting primarily out of print and orphan work, those works whose copyright status was not entirely known. and they felt that this wholesale scanning was infringement and they didn't like that so they sued. as it made its way through the courts, however, the parts all decided to create what is known as the google books settlement and what that would entail is coming up with some means of giving copyright holders the monetary value for their work. and what did you like to do was to create what's known as opt out process where, if others did not want their works to be scanned by google, they could write in and opt out how and those who did have their works scanned by google would get about $60 per work. as it made its way through the courts, judge chin last heard about this approximate 14 months

ago. and then he was confirmed to the second court of appeals after which nobody knew exactly what was going on with the settlement. then when the news came in last week that he rejected it, that sort of create a wave of surprise among many pakistani and especially in the publishing committed. >> what was judge chin's rationale? >> he ultimately believe the settlement was not fair, adequate are reasonable. he felt that the numerous objections that were lodged by about 6800 authors as well as 500 other parties were substantial enough to rule that the way that the settlement was created contravened current copyright law. and that there was perhaps a better way to do it. so in his view he thought the maturing of the objections could be mollified instead of an opt out process, using an opt in process where copyright holders could say no, i want to be part

of the settlement instead of assuming that unless you opt out, that you're automatically in. he didn't like that and he felt that this was not a good way of doing it. the other portion that i addressed earlier related to orphan works. and he felt that the google books settlement could not adequately address this. and instead, this was a matter that should be taken up by congress. >> so, sarah weinman, during this entire legal process google has been scanning books into its system. what happens to those books? >> that's a very good question, and the fact because the settlement has not been rejected, no one knows what the next move will be. there is supposed to be a status meeting in court on april 25 at 4:30 at which time i guess the parties are going to stake their claims as to why they should come up with a revised seven. that would be a ap and the ag are both on record as saying,

and google will have to figure out exactly what they want. there are multiple ways of looking at it. some commentators say that this actually hurts google because this puts their scanning ability in debt. other commentators say that no, this in fact is fine because in another separate program which is the creation of google translate with google is scanning works better in a copyright with various permissions. you can go to google's e-books site online and download for a price any current e-book that is probably available for sale but you can even go to various independent retailers that our affiliate with the google e-book bookstore and do it that would they do if what is known as a public partner program. they have opted in to to make these books available for sale. so there's some rationale that by implementing and instituting this particular program, that this is perhaps a model for what

the google books settlement should be. the other thing that is put into limit is the settlement was supposed to create what's known as a google e-books writes registry. and google and publishers have spent between 12 and 15 million already ending this up and running. that's a little because how can have a writes registry for settlement that technically doesn't entirely exist? so it remains to be seen, will be a ap and the ag relaunch the loss or? will other parties litigate? will google want to continue the? >> i've a feeling we will know a lot more when the status meeting happens on april 25 spent what was google's reaction at the american association of publishers reaction to judge chin's suggestion that they use an opt in system? >> both the aap and the ag were understandably disappointed that the settlement was not approved, but both parties seem to express some optimism that they could

find a way into the settlement. like, for example, mcmillon ceo john sargent who issued a state on behalf of the aap essentially said they are prepared to enter into a near settlement along the lines to take advantage of this groundbreaking opportunities and help other parties will do as well. and scott thoreau the president of the ag says along the lines of regardless of what the outcome of discussions are, readers want access to uneventful works. office in every market they can get. there has to be a way to make some kind of settlement happened to make these works available. so they hope that they can, in fact, arrive at a settlement. with respect to google, they were as i said kind of disappointed, but they essentially said they hope to be able to continue their scanning work and make as many of these books available. so essentially i think it's disappointed but cautious

optimism seems to be raining the day. >> sarah weinman, what about google's competitors, amazon, microsoft, yahoo!, et cetera, what was their reaction? >> to the best of my knowledge i think the reactions were mostly lodged in court documents. from what i understand though they were certainly please the settlement was not approved because each of those parties or the majority is lodged objections with the core. amazon for example, have essentially said that if you give google is unfair advantage, how is this good for copyright? that was another big issue of judge chin, which is it's a good idea to have a digital library, to have these works scanned. but should google be the arbiter and the decision-maker, the entity that decides how it is scanned, what is scanned, which books are essentially made

available? and i think in judge chin's opinion he felt very uncomfortable that one entity, one corporation could have that much power, and an unfair advantage over any other corporate entity or public entity. >> sarah weinman, result in "the new york times," robert the director of the harvard university library wrote that the decision is a victory for the public good but insisted, quote, we should not abandon google string of making all the books in the world available to everyone. instead, we should build a digital public library which would provide these digital copies, free of charge, to redistrict is there any viability to that? >> it sounds like a wonderful idea. yeah, the only entity that has stepped up its google. and, unfortunately, especially with the current economic state of play the priority for a digital public library that was already in progress i suspect is

not the highest of priority. i mean, already look at the money that's just been spent on the rights which alone which may have to be abandoned in a worst-case snooper pointed this case are taken a. but then who would it be taken up by? as a result of google with the tremendous market cap they have were really one of the only corporations are only entities, public or private, that has the clout and the muscle to be able to make this happen. so i think ultimately that was wiped the settlement was a good idea for the aap and the ag because they recognize there is either in work that google did, and they wanted to at least get something off the ground and that could be built on and build on. will the library system be able to come together for a nonprofit entity when they're facing such massive cutbacks at state and federal level? i'm not entirely certain. so even though there is to there's cautious optimism about

revising settlement, there's also understandable skepticism that this can happen. so, some people are looking at it as a win-win. i'm looking at it as more of a neutral potentially great loss, i suppose, if something doesn't move forward. >> will judge chin continue to have a role in this issue? >> from what i understand he will not, especially now that he has moved on to the second circuit court of appeals the this is one of the last outstanding cases on his docket. the 14 months was a little long, but in light of the complexities, the issues that will raise it makes sense in hindsight. so then the issue becomes who will take this up? will it have to be litigated from scratch but would it be heard again? are the other court cases that may factor into how and what kind of potential outcome is reached at a later date? with this drag on for years?

we just don't know at this point. i think as i said, a lot of things will become clear at the status meeting on april 25. >> and we look forward to talking to you after that status meeting. finally, sarah weinman, do you see congress playing a role? >> a very, very good question, peter. certainly judge chin hopes that congress will play a role. i'm not entirely certain that they will play a role since, from a priority standpoint looking at in the greater context of budget cuts and health care and various military activities going on, whether the issue of orphan works are having a digital library is going to even register on the current congress. they also i think traditionally haven't necessarily been the most willing listeners in terms of trying to change current copyright law to mak