them, for many years in order to try to do something to change the conditions in the fields and to bring some degree of dignity and respect to people who were, you know, working in the most difficult and oppressive conditions probably of any sort of one group of people, i met all these people who were literally haunted 30 years later by why they had not been able to succeed. and what had gone wrong and why the ufw did not become a sort of really permanent, sustained union for farm workers. and the -- while cesar chavez was the central character and in some ways is the center, and my book is described as a book about cesar chavez. it's really, as hector said, not a book about chavez per se, it is about the movement he created and the people who were drawn to it. and i chose to tell the story through eight characters because, for a couple of

reasons. i mean, one, they represent the spectrum of people who were drawn to this and who made it be able, sort of were responsible for the degree of success that it had in changing conditions. and in sort of changing life for a generation. so there is the characters in the book some of them are farm workers, there's a minister, there are lawyers, there are students. because it was partly this ability that chavez had to draw these people into this collaboration that accounted for their ability to succeed. so that 1975, 17 million people in the country stopped pieing grapes in order to -- buying grapes in order to get farm workers -- there are people here waving their hands saying they were some of them. you know, it was a bell i can't -- the idea that you could send farm workers across the country who would uproot their families, some of them didn't speak english, most of them had not been outside of california, had little education and were willing to go around the country and sort of just ask for money.

they hustled everything, was the term, and it was basically i'm a farm worker, and i'm, you know, 2,000 miles from home, and all i'm asking you to do is not buy grapes. it was a very, very powerful movement, and it drew people in. and yet my book sort of chronicles both the rise and the fall. there were tremendous successes. california to this day has the only law on the books that gives farm workers the right to join a union and protects their ability to do that. farm workers and domestic workers are the two categories of people who were excluded from all the sort of basic rights that most other workers have under the national labor relations act. >> wow. >> so california has some sort of, you know, major victories. and chavez at the point where he needed to make the transition from being a charismatic leader of a movement into being a labor leader of a functioning union was sort of unable to do that, and the book explores a lot of the reason for that and explores that through the eyes of these

people as they went through the experience. because the other thing that sort of -- when i, as i met people and talked to them, it was a little like the story the blind man and the elephant, you know, where all the blind men feel a different part of the elephant, and they describe a totally different animal. that was kind of what happened within the movement. so depending on where you were, your perspective was different, and by telling these stories in human and compelling ways, i wanted you to be able to see as the reader what it was like to go through this experience. so you were sort of seeing events from the perspective of people who believe what they see is happening, but as the only in addition sent sort of reader/narrator, you have a sense of where this is all going. a few words about cesar chavez to sort of end on. mario and i were talking about this on the way over here. he is an incredibly important figure in history, in american history. i think in some ways because he

has been so, because there's been so much biography about him and because he's not been examined on a much more sort of critical and deep level that that, in fact, has done him a disservice. that he is a hero and that writing about his life and all of its complexity doesn't take away from his accomplishments or his place in history or his importance. but sort of conveys to people the sense that -- and i think this is an important sort of lesson for young people too -- that heros are human and that heros have flaws, and that doesn't, you know, that doesn't diminish their accomplishments. so there's been until fairly recently a real sense of wanting to shy away on the part of, i think, both academics and journalists about writing about chavez in any way other than -- >> celebratory. >> yeah, exactly.

and he's a much more complicated figure than that, and he was brilliant and brought about really significant change not only for farm workers, but in many ways for all of the people who joined the movement so that his legacy today is much more outside of the fields than it is in the fields. >> right. >> you know, my book only deals with the part of his work that was part of the farm worker movement. i mean, the farm worker movement was related to and important in the broader chicano movement, but very separate from it. >> right. >> and, in fact, there was a great deal of tension from time to time. there are activists from that period who were not happy with chavez's reluctance to embrace their cause. so there was some techs there. tensions there. but he's a fascinating character, and the people around him were. and the people who were drawn to it. and for me, you know, i have yet to meet anyone -- as hector said, many of the people who were involved in the movement and the people in my bookended

up disillusioned and, and sad and angry and left on either voluntary or involuntary terms. there were a lot of purges within the movement. for many years people did not talk about any of that. >> wow. >> they kept it inside. and i think that i had good timing in some sense that i came along at a point where people felt, well, it's history, and can it's okay to talk about this now. and there are sort of a lot of lessons in the book about that, too, i think, about how do you sort of participate in a movement and how do you have a democratic movement and still get things done, you know? many i've talked to a lot of groups who have read the book in sort of a case study, how do you allow for dissent in a way that is constructive and that doesn't, that doesn't punish people for doing that? so people left on very kind of

mixed terms. i have never met anyone who worked for the movement for even a very brief period of time who does not say that it was the most important thing in their lives. >> right. >> you know, that if not for cesar chavez and for the movement, they would not be doing what they are doing today. there were people who were teachers, environmentalists, labor leaders, so that's what i tried to capture, and i told the story through the people because i wanted you to, you know, be able to really care about the people because, ultimately, it's a very human story. >> right. and for me as a reader, i mean, a lot of what cesar chavez's life is, it's about the awakening of the civic spirit. in fact, he had a career even before he started organizing farm workers. he did voter registration, he worked with the cso in san jose trying to get ha tee knows to vote -- latino to vote.

and it's important that we're mature enough now that we can look at all of our history and the passage of time, you know, in the an unvarnished way. i think i'm going to throw the mic over to -- metaphorically speaking, over to sal. and then after you finish your comments, i'm going to throw it open to questions from the audience. so, sal, we were talking a little bit about you before you got here. mario was telling us a little bit about your life story. and the book that you two produced together. tell us a little about -- and there was a question that sort of came up that mario brought up when he was speaking about what the legacy was of this movement that you were involved in which we now learned is part of your own sort of previous life story as someone who was interested in politics, someone who had been an educator, who had seen the tensions and the unmet promise of the schools. but what about the present? you know, what do you think is the legacy of that time that youlied through that's documented so wonderfully in

this book? how is l.a. education different because of that movement? >> well, before i get into that, i've got to get into my introduction, god damn it. anyway -- [laughter] [applause] the real reason you invited me is because you wanted to see what a real movie star looked like. [laughter] that's supposed to be me there. the movie itself was actually produced simultaneous -- >> the mic's out, they're recording this, so you're on television right now. >> oh, that's great. [speaking spanish] >> c-span. but you have to speak in the microphone. you're missing your moment here on national cable. >> gee, that's wonderful. >> free cable. [laughter] >> all right. all right, so anyway, yeah, so, it took about ten years. so the producer and director asked me ten years before the project would i help them with the project, the movie,

"walkout," the story of the kids walking out. just as important, by the way, as what cesar was doing in the fields because his program was in the fields, the pardon farms. this thing was an urban movement where all of a sudden it was discovered there were millions of mexicans across the southwest and across the country period. anyway, getting back to this. they asked if i would help them, i said, sure, on one condition: that my love interest be either sal ma hayek or eva longoria. [laughter] the next thing is who's going to play me? i was a good looking bastard when i was young. so they said how about benjamin bratt? be he couldn't get out of a long-term contract on tv, so they said how about marc

anthony? it's not going to be a musical. [laughter] so then they decided on mike pena. mike pena is a hell of an actor, chicano kid from chicago. he had done a lot of stage work in new york -- it's okay, buddy, we can put it away. leave it on the floor. and he had done a lot of work in new york and also he was in "crash" that won an academy award blockbuster. he was a good mimic. he picked up on my mannerisms. so good he was later in the two-man movie with nicolas cage, the twin towers. so the next thing he did was the shooter which was, which was he played a part of an fbi agent who was a forensics expert. then he came up to the high rent district. he started working with meryl streep and robert redford in a movie, then he did another movie

as another iraq veteran. anyway, the project itself was based on a documentary that was done, and i hope you notice i said project. i'm mr. hollywood now. [laughter] but -- thank you. it was a four-part series on the civil rights movement, chicano civil rights movement. you know, we're too used to when you hear civil rights you hear, malcolm x and you're right, you're absolutely right. stokely carmichael and rosa parks and, of course, dr. martin luther king. but there was a parallel movement. there was a movement, how about desegregating the schools? a movement about education. you know, the march on selma, the bloody sunday march on selma between montgomery and selma actually occurred three years to the day of the second walkout of the kids. the police beat up, the police

beat up the marchers, of course, in selma. guess what? the police beat up high school students in classrooms and in halls. and what were their weapons? books. so it's interesting how the movement is a parallel. in fact, thurgood marshall convened with a fellow by the name of chavez who were working on the second desegregation case in texas. we aren was the lawyer who helped get me out of jail when they threw me in jail. and, of course, senator robert kennedy also contributed to getting me out of jail. it was a national story. in fact, talking about cesar, three hours after senator kennedy was in delano with cesar, three hours later he was with the kids taking that famous picture that you'll see in the book. anyway, apparently president clinton saw the documentary and saw the poster.

that's supposed to be me here with the long nose. they said, hey, i have a long nose. invite that dude to the white house. so, wow, i got invited in 1996 to the white house. damn. hey, born in l.a., don't steal nothing. [laughter] so i see president, i see president kennedy, he could have been a tight end for the university of arkansas. he came in with a great big smeal, and i didn't see monica lewinsky anywhere, but he had a smile on his face. [laughter] so, you know, i had to tell him, and this is the serious part. we're getting down to what hector asked me. i had to tell him in 1996, my president. i thought i was a -- [speaking spanish] i guess. but, you know, my president, we have the dubious distinction of leading the nation in high school dropouts, college dropouts and teen pregnancies. you know, if today, 2011,

president obama would invite me to the white house, i would have to tell him exactly the same thing, the same litany, you know? and proof of that, okay, it's time. i've got to hang it up. but, you know, this book, another book by ortiz at ucla, they did a study by accident. in 1962 or 3 there was some money available to do a huge study in los angeles and san antonio interviewing mexican families on their income, their educational status and so forth and so on. well, they forgot the project. they left it downstairs at the ucla library. all of a sudden, they rediscovered it recently in 2006 or 7. and they said, wow, let's re-examine, let's go back to the families that we talked to before and talk to the grandchildren and so on. what did they find from this

book? they found that in 1962 -- [speaking spanish] what did they find? today 2011,. [speaking spanish] [laughter] i'll end it because dr.s garcia and tobar are nervous. [laughter] you know, i'm such a great believer in education that long ago when i was a young teacher -- and i was young once. i walked in to the lincoln high office of the principal, and i looked to the side, and there's the student body vice president. had to be a young lady by the name of anita. she was in the principal's office crying. and i said, anita, what's wrong? and then i look in, and her parents in there. i said, damn, she's really done something wrong. you've got problems. the principal spots me, he says, mr. castro, you speak spanish, don't you? i said, no, sir, just german, chinese and russian. [laughter]

i've got the map of mexico all over my face. yes, i speak spanish. [laughter] we have a problem here. anita has been offered a full scholarship to on si debittal college. if you know lincoln heights, it's only three miles away. but the stipulation says anita must live on campus for the fist two years -- first two years. well, the parents are adamant she not leave home until she's married. occidental college has dug in their heels, and the parents have also. do you think you might tell the parents something that might persuade 'em to let her go? the because she's -- it was 5,000 in 1965. it's about 225,000 today. completely everything paid. even advance programs. anyway, i said, well, anita, how bad do you want to go? i want to go, mr. castro. i said how much english do your parents understand? none at all.

i said, keep a straight face. [laughter] i said -- [speaking spanish] [speaking spanish] >> if you don't understand spanish, learn it. [laughter] no, no. [applause] no, what i told 'em, i said this, you know, this grant is a federal grant. you don't fool with the federal government here in this country. if you don't accept it, they're going to fine you, and also they're going to throw you in jail, so you might as well accept et. [laughter] they did. and the bottom line story on that is that she went on to get

advanced scholarships and also got her ph.d.. finish and she taught for many year at cal state long beach and recently retired, and now has, of all things, a bookstore. so thank you very much. muchase gracias. [applause] >> we have microphones open here for questions. >> hi. i came all the way from miami. i'm a gringo from miami. [laughter] but i was involved in the ufw back in the late '60s, early '70 just as an activist. i wasn't a farm worker. the only time i was a farm worker was in israel, and then we ate grapes so much we got sick because we were allowed to eat those. i remember when cesar chavez

came to miami twice for two farm worker fiestas, and it was amazing. we had all these people. it was at an upscale catholic school right on biscayne bay, and it was packed with people. and somebody said look at all these limousine liberals. but, okay, i've got to come down to my question now. sorry, i couldn't help myself. i know that dolores huerta was the leader of the ufw after chavez. is she still the leader? >> dolores worked with chavez back in the 1950s on organizing and doing voter registration. she went with him when he began to organize farm workers in the '60s. she left the ufw while he was still alive and then came back. she has her own foundation now. she's not been associate with the the ufw. she has a -- >> is there a chance that another charismatic leader who's well organized can lead the ufw?

>> hopefully, one day there's someone in the fields who will follow the task. >> because it's very important. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> our next question. >> sal, i'm david kip, and i run a little lending library and used book shop in liberal heights, and i'm wondering what, what books did you have good luck with teaching kids in the high school jazzed about reading and history? >> okay. the fist one that i got turn -- first one that i got turned on was north of mexico by carrie mcwilliams. that was very heavy. and what i use for teaching, a very important book by leonard pith called decline of california. you've got today hand knows -- [speaking spanish] but beautiful book, tremendous book. i got a lot of things out of

that. and then dr. rudy acuna did a couple of middle school books, and they were very good. they're out of print, american book company did 'em. so what i did with those, i just mihm mimeographed -- can you believe it? how long ago? >> today, hell, it'd be great. i still have one copy. i don't know, maybe because it's 27 years and beyond i'd have to ask these legal folks. if somebody ever needed it -- >> what's it called? >> it was called mexican-american chronicle. still available. and they came up with some pretty good stuff. and so i got something like that. if you were to hear me speak, you'd know that one day i've got to write that book. but i don't have the patience. but we'll figure something out. [laughter] the reason you asked that, and it's very important, folks, we've been involved, we as mexicans, okay, now, let me let it all hang out. we as mexicans have been involved in every war the united

states has been involved in including the revolutionary war, including the revolutionary war. not only did the french help here in the revolutionary war, washington, la pierre and so forth, they didn't bring money. mexicans did. in fact, they brought thousands of troops headed by a history professor from the university of mexico. we don't get that recognition. in fact, not only did he come with troops, but he came with 44 vessels that blockaded the southern parts, you know, the katrina parts, biloxi, new orleans and so forth. he blocked that area so the british could not come invade from the south. gave washington a chance towards recuperating at valley forge. every -- there is no american cemetery throughout the world whether it be normandy, iraq, there is no american military

cemetery where there's not a mexican buried in it, including gettysburg. give me a hand for that. [applause] >> there was somebody there waiting on this side here. sir? next question here on the right-hand side. >> the question is for sal castro. sal, i'm a chicano from redondo beach. remember that? you were very involved with camp kramer in malibu. i was wondering if you could give us an update on what's happening with that effort and whether you continue to bring leadership to the young people in the community can. >> thank you very much. thank you for asking. we've been in existence since 1963 off and on, but, you know, as soon as the budget crunch hit, we were cut off. the l.a. city schools cut us off. so the very last conference we had was in october of 2008. so we're looking for funds now. we're sending out all kinds of

solicitations. we hope to be able to start again because that conference is so effective. it's only a three-day conference at malibu, campus kramer in malibu. the fanciest jewish summer camp in southern california. it's only three days, friday, saturday and sunday, but so effective that they did a study, a five her year study of the e fact on the kids. 87% of the kids that go through it wind up not only going to college, but graduating from college. that's how effective it is. [applause] >> i'm going to have to give the five-minute warning, so we have time for two more questions we'll take. sir? >> yeah. i'm a retired high school teacher, retired in 2001, and i've been taking classes since 2001. it's a predominantly latino campus, i would say 90%, and i've been appalled. there's a saying in the history, the more things change, the more they remain the same.

and i've been absolutely appalled at the conditions on the campus vis-a-vis teaching quality, administrative quality. i'm sure you read, hector, the times' series on the ripoffs in the rebuilding of the schools, mission had a vice president who was sending a lot of money to her own company. anyhow, to me it's basic racism. the latino kids are getting screwed at that college big time. and i would like to know your thoughts on this. the more things change, the more they remain the same, sal. i don't see any difference between now at mission college and what you went through at lincoln high school in the 19 1960s. so i'd like the panel to respond to this. what the hell's going on in this city? >> you want me to take a shot at it? >> daniel, do you want to sort of comment on -- >> no, i'm enjoying. [laughter] >> just a very quick comment. i mean, i think things -- nothing ever remains the same.

the walkouts did force some changes -- bilingual education, more chicano studies in the schools, more chicano-latino teachers and administrators, we have more, we have several chicano-latinos on the board of education. to me as a historian, what the problem is that the educational system in many ways is still tied in this to our economic system. and in that economic system from a historical perspective, it suggests that mexicans and other latinos have been primarily prized in this country as pools of cheap labor. consequently, the educational system which should, in a way, combat that in many ways augments that. so here you have a situation where education rather than being a panacea for our social problems in a way adds to them. those schools through the tracking system, for example, as i said earlier are producing

students who in many ways are tracked in to the low-skilled or semi-skilled labor market. and that's, i see that as, basically, the fundamental problem. >> sir, you have the honor of our last question, but i also want to say that all of our panelists will be signing their book, so you can go and get your book signed, ask them some questions later at the signing area. so, sir, your last question. >> curious, sal, what was the -- what degree of interaction was there between the chicano students and black students back in the day? >> >> the panthers were very helpful to us. the walkouts included the dorsey/washington. in fact, i would go over, see, the tactics in the black community, the kids, they wanted to sit-in. they liked the sit-in idea, they didn't want to walk out. [laughter] we wanted them, also, to be out there in the streets with us. so i'd go every day, every evening about 2:00 in the

morning and open all the gates, steal the locks and then leave. you see, the problem with l.a. city schools is there was one key for every lock. [laughter] it was a cheat key, those of you are retired or with me during these periods, it was a c key. so i kept taking locks. i'd go that same night, they'd have new locks. every day they're putting new locks in there. i think they had a run on locks. but the kid, they decided to stay in. but the panthers were extremely helpful to us. there were coalitions and, also, they helped open channels for the kids to walk through safely so there wouldn't be any problems. oh, yes. it was a beautiful thing to behold, really, by the way. thank you for asking. [applause] >> thank you so much for joining us, thank you. [cheers and applause] thank you to our panelists.

and, please, go buy their books. [laughter] [inaudible conversations]

reckitt inaudible conversations] >> please report to the book signing area. [inaudible conversations] >> you must go to the rear of

the book signing area. you can meet them at the books lining area. >> can they take a picture of the table? everyone else please leave. [inaudible conversations] >> they will be accessing. there is no dialogue.

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> you're watching live coverage of the los angeles times festival of books. this is its sixteenth year. in between our panel session, we have call in programs, we collaborated on a new book, one nation -- how the private lives of presidents, first ladies and their lovers changed the course of american history" and co-authors are with me, larry flynt legendary publisher of hustler magazine and columbia historian david eisenbach. together? how did this get started? >> i wanted to find out what our founding fathers and other

presidents. what they have today in the political landscape. once i decided high wanted to do the book, my friend david is a professor at columbia, and fantastic -- we have a great product and soaring -- so history has been written like this. publishers of history books, to be conservative, they're not

interested. what we have done is a great deal of research. we follow the lives -- not just about sex lives but the relationships actually affected a surprising number of cases -- >> an active part of the day so we like to have your questions by phone or send us a tweet at booktv. 202-585-3886. 3886. what is the history in this book? >> all the way to bill clinton,

putting the monica lewinsky scandal in historical conquest. the political party throwing dirt at each other, turns out not to be true. >> to be included in this book, over the course of nation's history. >> we were asked to show, what we consider personal and important in the grand scheme of the political story. >> we talk about a couple of them. american society which are loosely translated as grow up. can i tell you what you are going to say about the way few

sex scandals and politicians? >> i have been in the -- a huge effect on our live and we use this to communicate -- and recommendation to our own age. a much different reaction than we do. we have a very knee-jerk reaction. and politicians have a message -- and don't mean to sound facetious but it is true.

and -- career as are destroyed, i don't think fat will happen. it is very dangerous. it would indicate the president was good or bad because he had an active libido or not. to fight two wars and be able to sleep with everyone to. >> in the last 20 years or so would it be fair to say there has been some level of acceptance? when you look at recent scandals and correct me if my thesis is wrong, and some other wrongdoing that takes people out of office

and politicians can survive sex scandals. >> david vitter -- senator from louisiana, won his last election in a landslide victory. it is possible right now because americans have gotten more and more use to sex scandals involving politicians ultimately that is a good thing because it will enable us to stop talking and obsessing about sex lives of presidents and politicians at focusing on what really matters. >> not just the positives of new orleans but -- when you have somebody that hypocritical, getting caught up in a sexual escapades it just makes it even worse. >> instead of talking about the

conceptualism and our lines are already busy let's just give a for instance. what is your favorite story in the book? >> my favorite chapter turned out to be the eleanor roosevelt and franklin roosevelt. it was complicated. he had his girlfriend living in a bedroom next to him. she had her girlfriend living next to her in the white house together. the american public did not know any of this. franklin's girlfriend turned out to be essential to helping these two figures become the great heroes of american history who led us through the great depression and the second world war. a central piece of their story is the extramarital relationship and important piece that had long ignored. >> host: let me hear your favorite chapter. let's hear from a caller in

alabama. you presidents, first ladies and their lovers changed the course of american history". >> caller: thank you for your work. one of your buddies we harrelson, in that movie, online:plays a big part in his life. how much does it play in yours? >> guest: you say online:? >> host: that was his questions. >> guest: we have a web site but i never go on it. it plays no role in my life at all. much more material is available now because of the internet. it was never available before technology came into use. >> host: is that good or bad for

society? >> guest: you don't draw the line but, our reading habits -- little red riding hood -- parents have to police what their children are exposed to but we can't restrict the viewing habits for adults. >> host: this book covers this week from benjamin franklin and bill clinton and beyond and sex lives for politicians and american reaction to it. let's hear from providence, road island. >> caller: how is the book received so far? are you surprised at its reception? >> guest: so far we had great reviews. everyone who has read it has had nothing -- something positive to say. there are people who resent that we are telling these stories about the heroes of america but the important thing, neither of us are trying to tear down the

heroes or make them seem like they weren't important figures or good figures, does that their lives were more complicated than what we were taught in high school. >> host: you worry member of the academy, professor at columbia. what is the reaction to your project? >> guest: supportive. i teach at columbia and we have a long history of being very supportive of culture and they understand these are huge opportunities with a different perspective on history than an academic historian but also an important figure in the bill clinton chapter. >> host: we talked about -- did your relationship predate the book? >> guest: we became good friends. >> host: when it first came in -- >> guest: doing a little work

and i get a phone call from larry flynt saying i have a business proposition for you. we can tell you come to l.a. and i will be in the next place and flowing when he had in mind and when he proposed this collaboration for this book i said i have got to do it. >> host: why was your eye on him? >> guest: i became aware of some programs for the history channel. hy was very intrigued so i knew he was familiar with the matter. and historical figures and david is very bright. the right person to do the

with. [talking over each other] >> guest: i love the whole book. i love what we did on ben franklin. i was fascinated with woodrow wilson mainly because of him having a stroke and his wife -- for three months. it was fascinating but the one that really ripped me more than anyone else was warren harding. i couldn't believe that somebody who was such a philanthropist and such a doofus, he was not bright at all. and elected to the warehouse, at the understand anything about taxes. don't talk to me about taxes.

the difference between harding and wilson is wilson -- there is a lot of truth about that. he was picked to run for the senate, handsome looking man in the center and ran into the senate and the presidency. we got elected. one of the first things to do is change the national emblem from the eagle to the chicken because he said there were more chickens than eagles. >> host: telephone call for our 2 co-authors from las vegas.

you're still on. >> caller: i just want to say that this was an attempt by larry flynt to normalize bill clinton. his deviance has nothing to do with sex. engaging in perjury and obstruction of justice. evidence of this, lose his law license because of his perjury and obstruction of justice. this would be a way of normalizing and self. >> guest: that is not accurate. we're doing is telling an important story. in the case of bill clinton in which this national saga over sex captivated the public mind

and distracted us from serious threats to america one of which was al qaeda. in the 9/11 commission report the commissioners lay it out that the monaco luann ski scandal directed -- distracted the administration and kept us from what we should have been doing which was protecting the american public rather than focusing on a sex scandal. >> guest: you will never convince everyone. everyone will have the pros and huns while he was a great president or why he was a deviant. people are going to be arguing that for centuries to come. >> host: a tweet from larry flynt. were there any political escapades' you left out because they couldn't be substantiated? >> guest: we had some important tapes, especially audio tapes

including high-ranking politicians. that we wanted to use because it was recorded in one state. and both parties to use tapes. we were definitely sued for it. >> host: any others? >> guest: there are plenty of rabaul all presidents. we go back to some of the gossip. our focus is on going and unsubstantiated story and how they shaped american politics. >> host: what is the instance of all of this debunking? >> guest: j. edgar hoover wearing a dress and being a transvestite. that was invented to tar j. edgar hoover by his enemies and has been promoted ever since.

the problem with that story is that it distracted from the true scandal of j. edgar hoover which is that he used sex files on every senator and supreme court justice, to basically control the federal government over the 47 years he served as fbi director. it undermined the constitution. >> two days of the los angeles festival of books. we are live with our nonfiction authors featuring larry flynt and david eisenbach. >> caller: calling from the other end of america. the film that you appeared in and the rental affair which i think would be one of the very early american sex scandals would you say alexander

hamilton? >> guest: right along with the father and children and slave girls and those two were the first news scandals in the beginning with the founding fathers. >> guest: in the case of alexander hamilton, stephenson, and they discovered -- and james reynolds for the race to sleep with his wife, maria reynolds. the democrat republicans found out about this and then proceeded to defame hamilton and derail his plan to create a national bank with a sex scandal. opening up the boomeranged on jefferson, draft of the story of

fathering his own flavor children. what we see here is the filing fathers were not above using sex scandals for political points, part of a long tradition of american politics. >> host: if we were not focused on this we would spend more time on the important issues. we have important issues throughout our country's history and yet people do like to talk about this. >> in the 8 -- early nineteenth century the sex lives of president andrew jackson and thomas jefferson was fair game. it is the 20th century with the professional is asian of journalism. journalists began to see themselves as part of the establishment and the sec's discussion, well known that washington had a lot of sex and franklin roosevelt and john kennedy had their affairs but it

did not make the press and in that time period we don't have the sex scandals to distract us from the true problems at hand. >> host: you talked about a sea change in the 1970s regarding politician than sex. what happened and the 1970s? you suggest another area where americans attitudes with politicians and sex change once again? >> guest: the reason it changed and david can elaborate more on this is after the cold war, they no longer protected roosevelt or eisenhower or whoever and maybe they weren't doing anything but as far as their private lives they protected him and after the cold war it was not that way anymore. that changed the lot. the political landscape as far as how it would personalize --

>> guest: in the 1970s you have the sexual resolution which is comfortable with the rise of feminism. in kennedy's they what would have been a pass became after the 1970s a sexual harassment as we saw with paula jones and bill clinton. we had a huge change in american social mores, politics of journalism, kept secret so long and became part of the national dialogue. >> host: how did the rise of the conservative movement change things? >> guest: the conservative movement off of sexual liberation of the 1970s introduces gay-rights, abortion and social sexual issues into the political discussion. jack kennedy never had to talk publicly about gay rights. suddenly everybody has to in politics. this also leads the republicans or conservatives who are leading this charge vulnerable because

if you are going to say you are against gays getting married you better make sure your own marriage is on the up and up. >> host: five minutes left. next is california. >> caller: i would like to say that i have been a big fan of larry flynt for long time and thank you for everything you have written. i am so excited about your book. my oldest son -- my question was i have a 14-year-old son sitting in church with aids and if he thought his book would be appropriate but he is an avid historian and very mature and after listening to your stories it is so historical that i believe it is a perfect book for a budding historian. >> guest: as far as the book goes, it is very much proper for

of 15-year-olds. i'd like sue and i was publishing house where for 15 years and with a lot of teenagers in puberty. not that they were illegally supposed to read the magazine but that is the way it happened. >> host: last call from hollywood, florida. >> caller: two quick comment. are complement larry flynt back to the clinton/of monaco lewinsky thing and offered a million dollars to flush out some republicans and a lot of information came forward on a congressman and livingston's wife approached mr. flint and said she would try to get back together with her husband and appreciates the published material and the second thing was the whole clinton/lewinsky thing was not perjury because it was completely immaterial to the -- was a consensual affair.

how is having a consensual affair would influence a criminal case, you just can't ask that. kenneth starr's behavior was much more inappropriate than bill clinton's ever was. >> guest: obviously they felt very much about clinton the way they do about president obama and wanted to get rid of him and they would willing to do it that way they possibly could. from the time efforts were started to prosecute clinton, they were totally out of control. of a set earlier in the show i think people are going to be discussing this decades to come about the pros and cons of how bill clinton was treated. >> host: you are on quaid tour with this book unusual in

"1 nation under sex: how the private lives of presidents, first ladies and their lovers changed the course of american history" is available in your book store or online bookseller is. why spend so much time talking about this? >> one of my main goals is to introduce history to the audience. if it takes something a little fallacious, it is great and this is a great primer for anyone to discuss the history because you're going to learn a lot more about sex lives and politics in foreign relations. >> host: we are -- you have a civil war chapter. >> guest: the key one is james buchanan, who had a 32 year public affair. the slave owner and defender of