telling you what it thinks. and the third area is the most important. how do we relate to people? how we expand situations? how we perceive the world? these of the fundamental factors and whether we will have a successful or unsuccessful life and a lot of that action is happening and consciously. the second insight is emotions are not the enemy of thinking. he motions are at the center of thinking? people with strokes and legions who can't process in motion properly are not supersmart. they are superdumb. demotion assign value to things. they tell you what you want for value or don't value. if you don't have that valuation you cannot make rational decisions. the oceans are not separate from reason. they are the foundation of reason. i am a middle-aged guy. one of the scientific experiments i ran into which gets to the truth is they took a bunch of middle-aged guys, put

them in brains can machines and had them what a horror movie and then had them describe their feelings. .. >> up next on booktv, president obama sister, maya soetoro-ng read her children spoke to a group of kids at tenley friendship library here in washington d.c.. her book, "ladder to the moon" was inspired by her wish that her late mother ann dunham head had lived to meet her grandchild.

>> greetings one and all. and on behalf of our chief librarian jenny cooper, welcome to the d.c. public library. my name is wendy lukehart. i buy the children's and teen books for the library system. i am thrilled to have the special children's author with us tonight. let me tell you how thrilled. not only is maya soetoro-ng an amazing person who has written a book you are sure to love, but this moment is all the sweeter due to be, let's call them district administrative obstacles, that threatens to derail peace these efforts during the last dates of planning. we nearly had to concede defeat and cancel the program when told last thursday that it was a felony to work or even volunteer our time during a federal government shut down. happily, that situation was averted, so if you are happy and

you know it, clap your hands. [applause] before i introduce our guest i would like to highlight some individuals and share a few details to help the evening go smoothly. a huge thanks to branch manager nicholas and his tireless staff for all their energy in preparing for this night. i am grateful to my colleagues in the communication department, particularly joy of the helm, marcus who seems to know just whom to call for any problems, the cool and collected george williams and our talented ap experts eric and mari smith. we could not have posted this without a wonderful security folks officer mackenson sergeant wallace and all the librarians who offered to take on countless details. a shout-out to the broad spread market for preparing our milk and customized cookies and to politics and prose for handling book sales.

i would like to extend deep thanks to candlewick dress for hosting our session and a warm welcome to present an publisher and director of publicity, jennifer roberts. that brings me to the order of events tonight. after maya shares her book and spends time talking with us and answering question she will proceed upstairs to the adult reference desk in the front of the building, where she will sign your books. while she is heading up there, we will raffle a signed print from her book courtesy of candlewick rest. during and after the raffle we are asking you to stay where you are until maya is settled upstairs and we will release you by sections. when your section is called you will have three options. you can head to the back of this corridor two purchase a blood if you haven't yet very can take the steps or the elevator up to the signing or to the refreshments in the program room. your cooperation with being

released by sections is greatly appreciated so everyone is safe and secure. now a few words of introduction. maya is the author -- author of the brand-new picture book. voluminous illustrations are by award-winning illustrator yuyi morales. you children are in for a treat as you are among the very first children in the whole country to hear this book. like you, maya used to be a student. she grew up and went to school on three different islands, java, hawaii and manhattan. [laughter] so why thinks she must know something about water, volcanoes and making new friends. perhaps it is not surprising to share and an m.a. in secondary language studies at ny q. and if ph.d. in international compared of education at the university of cool.

maya went on to become a teacher instructing high school and college students in hawaii and working at an alternative middle school in new york. our guest is also a sister. she has several siblings but there is one in particular you may have heard of. do you know who her brother is? who is your president? >> the barack obama. [laughter] >> the that's right. >> okay. that was exciting. [laughter] maya is also a wife and a mother. sheehan conrad have two girls. although i'm sure she has many more roles, i will end with her very first one, that of daughter. her book is one way that she

shares her daughters emotions with her children and now with you. please join me in welcoming maya soetoro-ng. [applause] >> thank yous. hey everybody, how is it going? good. who said barack obama by the way? that was very powerful, a powerful voice. you have a big voice and you know how to use it. so i am going to read the book a little bit to you, or some of it, and then we can open up or some conversation and some questions. you guys be thinking of questions that you have, okay? okay. one cool new evening, sue halo

asked her mama, what was grandma and me like? she was like the moon her mother replied, full soft in curious. at your grandma would wrap her arms around the whole world if she could. mama gave her a hug. you have grandma annie's hands she said. what did you guys get from your parents or your grandparents, anything? >> my eyelashes from my daddy. >> your eyelashes are very lovely. [laughter] >> i got my eyelashes from my grandpa. >> really? eyelashes are big. [inaudible] there are two kinds of presence.

that is why it is a great answer. there is it presence in the gifts that you give, the things that you get and then there is presence as an attitude and point of view and voice and i can tell you have both. later suhala lie in her pajamas the moonlight coming through her window and she looked at her hands, front side and back and wondered what else had she gotten from her grandma? as the night deepened and the crickets grew loud, suhala wondered and waited. something was about to happen. then, as though an answer to her wondering, a golden ladder appeared at the edge of the still and an adventure began. they are, right on the lowest rung stood suhala's grandmother. she beckons to subor teen.

suhala dimpled cheeks. you want an adventure my dimpled child? suhala nods and tosses herself out of bed like a tumbleweed and up they go, up the golden level to -- letter to the moon. grandma annie jumped first, because she wants to get vigor and bigger, bigger than the biggest moon crater so that suhala will have a soft place to land. and then, they coddle and they talk and they smile at one another and they get to know each other. grandma annie takes the shiver out of suhala. they look back on earth, and they see that there are people

in need of help. a 50-foot wave was sweeping from the ocean to the land and through swirling waters swimmers traveled up towards the surface. kick hard and he encouraged them, swim. tilting her head towards her granddaughter, she asked, show we invite them to join us little one? made we? suhala responded, we have lots of room. annie nodded and let her voice drifts down, come and dance and give more babies and ears and when the next giant wave crested, all the children left high like flying fish. suhala in and he caught them by their fingertips and pulled them up to the moon. draping scarves around their shoulders, they swung the children around and around until they could all laugh again, loud

and long. the moon becomes a place where those who are sad, those who are confused and those who have lost things can gather and feel good again. day rest, but they also realize that they are not alone and they talk to one another. and, they get bathed in the rain and they refresh themselves and scrub themselves clean. there is still so much to do. there are fires to be tended, gardens to be weeded and trees to be seated back on earth. we will work together and he promised. we will throw in our hearts and minds and work with our hands to make the world a little more

kind and for sure, they would. together, they built bridges and buildings and bonds between people. looking back at earth, grandma annie spoke again, i feel moving the air down there. they are praying. for wide asked subor teen? for one another annie told her. and for us. and to make fighting stop, and setting down her teacup subor teen stood and she felt that then and through feeling knew more than she had known before. looking past the golden ladder she spotted people whose hands pointed upwards from a synagogue, a temple a mosque and a church. one by one every person was finding his or her own path to the moon, each path connecting with the other. in one massive hopeful stream

around the moon, many languages become understood, and those very are said come from different tongues are no longer, and on the moon, worlds that have been lost and great grandmothers who are stooped are found again, and their value is understood. the value of the past, to help us figure out what to do tomorrow. and we learn from the past are great grandmothers have so much to teach us. and then you know it is suhala for the first time and all by herself is the one to reach down

and to pull up, because suhala just realized she is powerful. do you realize you are powerful? yes. are you strong? can you show me your muscles? nice. very nice. you are strong. so you remember that. all the boys and girls on the moon, all the men and women were now part of the moons tom. and their silhouettes could be seen from far below and gave feelings of plenty to those who had little. i want you to look on this-page when you get your book. see around the moon? it looks like little rays of moonlight. look closely. there is something else there. check it out. what do you see? yes. little, tiny people.

they are silhouettes of people. hands connected on the moon. eventually suhala turned to her grandmother and again nodded twice. grandma annie's nose twitched and her lips trembled with love. i suppose it is time for you to go back. yes said suhala. mama misses me i am sure. will you be okay? guest little pumpkin and he replied. i am so happy we had this time. so she slides down moonbeams straight back into bed. to bed is soft and comprehend she feels proud for all that she has learned and done and for having helped others to heal and she notices there is a light out dyed her door. her mama has been waiting for her. mama, i am holeman suhala called

in to the hallway. mama, i met her. i am in here baby or cocom, tell me everything. and that is the and. [applause] so i ended that way because i think that children's stories, your stories are so valuable and i want to hear them. i want to listen to you and to what you need because that will make me a better person. you are powerful because when your parents and the people who love you do get things, guess who they do it for? you. that makes you very powerful. you inspire us to greater heights, making us be better and

wiser. so this book is about a couple of things. one is that we have to remember that we are connected to one another in this country, in this community, in this world, that we are connected to one another and what happens far away matters to you, or it should. and we should be able to feel love and to understand people who are different from us and houbara very far away even. and another thing i want you to remember is that you are what? powerful. yes. and that means you can begin thinking about how to make others feel better, how to make

the word matter, your words matter. be careful with your words. how to make the world a little more kind, a little more gentle. esuite in your interaction and then also it is about thinking about those who came before us, people who have have her hats passed on but please know that you are loved by them, that their love comes and finds you and that the things that they give aren't lost, that they are here with us still. anyway, i want to make room now for your questions, and i have by the way some of suhala's friend here i see. nice to see you, and mind.

thank you. thank you all so much for coming. at does anyone have any questions? does anyone have any questions? yes, young man. >> why did you want to write the book? >> i wanted to write -- that is a very good question. i wanted to write the book because i lost my mommy when i was 25, and although i was a grown-up, i still needed her. and i missed her, so i wanted when i became a mommy myself, to share with my daughters and the presidents daughters, my nieces, some thoughts about who she was and what she was like because i know she would have loved to

meet them and to know them and she would have given them so much. and made them feel so strong. so that is one of the reasons i wrote the book. thank you. and i also wrote the book as i am a teacher. i am an educator and one of the things that i want to happen is for us to think about the world from more than one point of view. so you see in the beginning, yuyi morales who wrote the illustration, she is very clever. tell me, kids. this is the moon from the earth point of view, right? now look at the back. has it changed? what is it now? that's right, the earth from the

moon's point of view so the idea is sometimes we need to flip it. we need to make sure that we see things from more than one point of view because we can understand things in the world if we are only looking from one point of view. as a teacher, do you know what i give my students to do sometimes? do you guys know about events and things happening in the world? do you read the newspaper yet? well, you will. one of the things i have my high school kids do because i'm a high schoolteacher is i get them to go look at english-language newspapers from all over the world, and you can see how in each case the stories are written a little differently, and in order to really know a stronger, deeper truth, you have to see those differences and think about how things look from

other peoples points of view. do you have friends and you sometimes get into a disagreement? do you ever disagree with your friends? so it is hard but what you should do is try to see, try to imagine to yourself, what is going on from their point of view? and i think the world would be more peaceful and our communities would be more peaceful if we learned how to do that instead of having debates. this is for teachers out there. at do structured academic controversies, you know, where what you do is you have people debate -- the students debate a subject from one perspective and then flip it around and have them debate the other side. then write a position paper that you know, involves multiple points of view. that is such a valuable thing for young people i think. sometimes i don't tell them what

sites they are arguing until 15 minutes before so they have to learn both sides of an issue. and then they can't get stuck in one point of view. you have got to keep things big. throw open the windows. yes, young woman. >> my mommy is a teacher too. my mommy is a teacher too. >> that is terrific. i love teachers. what has she taught you this week? >> she didn't teach me anything. [laughter] [inaudible] >> did you guys hear that? she says i am not in her school but i would love to be in her

school, which means that she teaches you things every day and there is a lot of love there. that is wonderful. yes? >> my music teacher is a boy. [laughter] >> his music teacher is a man, and you will be a man some day too. and so the teachers and our lives teach us a little bit, each of them, about how to be young men and women and that happens all the time. and it is a beautiful thing. do you take lessons from them that have nothing to do with music? >> music.

>> keep teaches you about music. do you like is a? do you like to sing? >> a little bit. >> a little bit. well songs, just like storytelling, can make us feel things like happy, right? or can make us feel comforted or make us feel calm. so use that music and share it with others and tell your stories to match. they are all very interesting. >> tell us about the reduction of the book and has she seen it yet? >> my daughter has seen the book. she is very proud of the fact that her name is in it and she

reminds her first grade class all the time. my name is in the book. [laughter] she likes -- her favorite-page is the-page where she is drinking men do from a silver tea cup. do you guys like that-page too? now she puts on tea parties that are very elaborate with her 2-year-old little sister and i think this is about -- it makes her feel very grown up and she hosts the party and she loves that targeted. and we have talked about some of the other things in the book. some of the challenging things, the difficult things and my feeling is this is definitely a book to be shared with our children. we don't need to talk about all of those things at once.

parents and children can decide when they are ready but she definitely does feel a sense of responsibility for others, carrying. she works to help and serve so she contributed to efforts to raise money for the survivors of the tsunami in japan and she definitely has a big heart. she plans trees, reforestation and i'm proud of her for that. yes? [inaudible] >> i'm sorry? [inaudible] >> it is a true. sometimes reading can make people sad. i read this book once called where the red fern grows. oh my goodness. i just cried and cried. i cried like that at charlotte's web too.

yes, but in a way, it was good because even though i felt sad, i felt like i had found a family in those books, like i had found you know, i really was sad because i cared so much about the people in the books, and that is really beautiful too, even though it is sad. yes? [inaudible] >> i wish i had illustrated it. you know, i didn't. the illustrator is a woman named yuyi morales and she was originally from mexico and she now lives in california. interestingly, mexico. she is -- her picture is -- she is a curlyhaired woman who looks

a little bit like a skinnier version of me. that is what i think. and when i saw her illustrations, i felt so amazed and so grateful. i felt so connected to her because they were exactly what i had seen in my mind. but i did not have the ability to take what was in my head and to put it down on paper, so i was grateful that an artist like her was willing to bring pictures to my story. and she is i think are the magical. she took stuff from her own childhood too like that little dog. when there is a boy and he is born in a stalk of corn, and the great-grandmother helps them to walk, and then she goes up to the moon. the dog stays to protect him. that is an aztec dog that comes from her own childhood stories.

so, yeah but i think her pictures are beautiful. and i felt very proud of the book. yes? >> what is your favorite-page? >> my favorite-page. what is your favorite-page? i think i like the one where the children are leaping hide like flying fish. >> see there is from the moon's perspective. can you imagine yourself there on the moon? i think that it is -- i think it would be a very beautiful place to be. i don't think i will ever get there but maybe you will. what is your favorite-page? >> my favorite-page is the

different languages. >> the different languages, right. when they all sit around the fireplace and they share stories and they start understanding each other better. give me a question. >> did you read the book to your 2-year-old? >> i did. she is two. [laughter] which means that she jumped around a lot, so i jumped through the book with her. i didn't read every word because you know. you are a young man and you have the ability to sit and focus, right? [laughter] most of the time. my 2-year-old, she just starts

climbing on the furniture and she puts on my shoes. [laughter] so, we shared little bits of the story but she likes the pictures. but she thinks it is her in the pictures so she goes, that is me. and i say, yes. whatever you want, honey, yes. the two sisters, yes. the two sisters underneath the trembling towers, yeah. i like them to match. do you ever stick your tongue out when it rains? yes. and doesn't it feel fresh? yeah. and so those towers, there was a lot of ash and so they cleaned themselves and then they worked

together and builds that spiral to the moon. i love that idea of these two sisters who look very different. do you notice that their heads -- you can see if you look closely. what do you see in their faces? >> they are different colors. >> yes, there are shadows and it is sort of like the ash may be, but what else? if you look at their heads, like the globe, it is like there is the whole world. what could those white parts be? it could be land, right? continence. it is like the whole world is in their faces. that is what i think. i like that one too. is that because i'm supposed to stop?

[laughter] it is a good place to stop. thank you so much for having me and thank you for -- thank you for your very good questions. and i am looking forward to meeting all a of few pumpkins. [applause] >> president obama's sister maya soetoro-ng on her book, "ladder to the moon." if you would like to find out more visit the publisher's web site, at candlewick.com and search "ladder to the moon." >> kate buford, who is jim thorpe? >> probably our greatest multisport athlete ever of all times. and a native american, partially white but mostly native american. one of our earliest greatest athletes is one of the most important things about him. and he sets a model, he sets the

gold standard for athletic achievement that still stands today. >> when did he live? >> born in 1887 in oklahoma, died in 1953. the first half of the 20th century more or less. >> did he play professional sports? >> oh guys, yes. >> for home? >> both nonprofessional but also professional. he played for the new york giants who are now the san francisco giants, last-year's world series winner. he played for the canton bulldogs which is why the professionals put all hall of fame is in canton, ohio. because of jim thorpe and if you walk in the front door of the hall of fame, the only statue that you see in the center of the hall is thorpe. >> in his time as he is well-known as a michael vick or a brett favre is today? >> oh more. much more. he was a multisport athlete. he did they spoke, he did football, he did track and field. he won the decathlon in the 1912

olympics. he could do all of that. it was one of the reasons he still retains the status is the greatest multisport athlete because they don't allow athletes to play multiple sports like that anymore. in his this day and beyond, one of the main reasons i wrote the book, he loom so large. people revered him and talked about him long after he stopped playing. >> what was the significance of this native american heritage? >> huge. the playing of games as a young child. i going to that in the book. kind of across trading almost. he sort of ran free and played free on the oklahoma plains and learned strength, concentration, stamina, quickness, agility and also disrespect for physical effort, disrespect for competition was instilled in him by his father and why the competitive game that the tribe at engage in an oklahoma. it was a huge influence i think.

>> who were his parents? >> his parents were hiram thorpe, who is half white and his father had been a white hiram thorpe from connecticut and his mother was a pottawattamie indian, another algonquin woodland tried. jim was actually mostly pottawattamie for those listeners who are, or viewers who are knowledgeable about indian background. all of these are originally great lakes algonquin tribes who of course got removed and removed and removed from the euphemism of the time to eventually oklahoma. >> how did he end up in pennsylvania? >> pennsylvania, carlisle pennsylvania, the carlisle indian industrial school was probably the most famous and prominent of a series of indian boarding schools set up to radically assimilate american indians into white society. white reformers at the time, this would be the 1870s, 1880s come 1890s. carlisle was closed in 1918 but

they saw the american indian race is dying out, is threatened, vanishing a popular word of the time and sort of a combination of fields and policy, they decided the best way to save this supposedly dying race and of course it wasn't really, was to turn them into white's. >> turn them into white's? >> turn them into white's, to send them to these boarding schools which they could not go home for five years. they were for bid and to speak their native languages. their hair in the case of voice was cut short and they were put into white uniforms and sent out to live with white families for the summers. it was a radical exercise and assimilation which did incredible damage to at least two generations of native american students and parenthetically right now there is this very interesting movement going on, this building with the internet facilitated by the internet i facebook pages up the descendents of

these boarding school students trying to retrace the memory of their grandparents parents, aunts, uncles and piece together what they call this whole in their culture where they were forbidden to indulge or two express their culture. anyway jim went to the most famous of the schools, the carlisle indian school. >> did he have to apply for it? was he chosen? how did he get there? >> weber recruiting good athletes. the original superintendent felt that sports was away for the american indian to show on the supposedly equal playing field of sports that they could excel and do as well as anyone else, like a metaphor for success, and active metaphor. his father had despaired of being able to control jim at this point. he was older and he was in his late teens. he tried every other school in the area in oklahoma and his father sent him a pretty famous letter actually now to the

superintendent of carlisle in pennsylvania saying i can't do anything with him. will you please take him? he already showed signs of athletic traumas. not nearly what he would later show but enough that he was then allowed to go to carlisle and was put on a train and went off in 1904. >> when did he get back to oklahoma, or did he? >> he went back and forth. he didn't go for several years because he was the carlisle but he would go back in the summers once you been there several years. pretty much until he goes to play with the new york giants. he would go back periodically, but not that much as he grows into an adult man. >> what was his reaction to carlisle industrial school? >> quickly, he loves sports right from the beginning. he really wanted to play for all. he showed he could excel at track and field very early so initially he was from put on the track and field team in 1907 but he kept pestering glenn scobee

warner who was the famous coach and soon-to-be famous coach who started out at carlisle. he pestered warner to be put on the football team. at this point he was five feet eight inches and 138 pounds and warner kept putting him off. long story short he make that football team. he doesn't really start to shine until 1908, and sports really become his thing. if you are an athlete at carlisle, very interesting paradigm that we see now that all the major schools, you are a pampered person. you got a special training table. you didn't have to go to class as often as the others. warner had an athletic machine and play which is very much a model, template for what we take for granted now. >> what was the significance or tell us about the west point football game. >> oh yes. we fast-forward to 1912.

gems last season with the carlisle industrial school. >> was he well-known as a college athlete nationwide? >> by this point he was. you have to read the book but he leaves carlisle in 1909, goes to play minor league race colin north carolina never intending to go back to carlisle, wanted to break into the major leagues. baseball was the only organized for do you could make a living at or a career. he doesn't do that well in baseball so he is persuaded to come back to carlisle in 1911. he is bigger, is heavier. he is in his 20s now. he hits the ground running and the football season of 1911 and 1912 and the track and field season of 1912 has been perceived in the olympics in stockholm. he is a phenomenon. he is in all the headlines. by the time that west point game is scheduled, he is sort of the

talk of the nation and in fact west point, "sports illustrated" would say 2008 that had there have been a heisman trophy for example in 1911 in 1912 jim probably would have won at both ears. he is a phenomenon when he goes into that game. warner has scheduled the carlisle indians with the west point cadets and it is a highly symbolic game for many reasons. obviously they west point, the army in that team and in that class of cadets are so many future world war ii generals. >> such as? >> eisenhower for example. >> omar bradley. >> omar bradley was watching from the sidelines but he was a reserve player. and carlisle wins that game and it is a tough game and a phenomenal game. >> what did the carlisle coach tell his team before they played? >> according to several accounts, and this can be

exaggerated, but no doubt warner said to the team as part of his pep talk before the game, you are playing against the descendents of the people who fought against your father's on the so-called indian wars in the west, the land and go out and get them and they did. >> did politics, did political figures glom onto jim thorpe and did he get involved in politics at all? >> later in life he did. not at this point we are talking about, not in the 20s. by the time he gets to hollywood in the 1930s he plays his last official sort of game of any kind in 1928. he goes to hollywood as did so many sports stars because of the movies and the wonderful climate. he goes to hollywood and he becomes almost in spite of himself a spokesperson for indian causes because this huge diaspora of indians as well as sports stars gather out in

hollywood. the advent of sound in film triggers the renaissance of thia was, the western western serial, one episode and the kids would go down on saturday afternoon. he plays in over 70 movies, maybe double that. and because there is this big group of indian actors and stuntmen and players in hollywood, he is the most famous of all of them. he becomes a spokesperson and he begins to speak out on behalf of indian affairs. he also forms a casting company to pressure the studios to hire indians to play. it even though it is stereotypical it is a job. he said he wants someone who can really -- you want someone who can shoot a bow and arrow while they are riding a horse, not some italian or some mexican or whatever because the studios were none too fussy. with long as you look vaguely ethnic you are okay but jim said get give the job to us.

he became quite a spokesman for that. >> did he die wealthy man? >> oh, no. he made good on me when he went to work for the giants and when he played in the minors in the 1920s. he made very good money. >> hollywood? >> he made a living and he made a fairly decent living. this was the depression remember but indians were not paid as much as white extras. he thought for that as well. by the end of his life, no, he is virtually got no money. and a very important thing to remember looking at the whole life and stepping back is jim thorpe as i said, is the advent, the beginning of american sports. he is pre-radio. he is pre-sports agents. he is pre-hollywood newsreels. so none of these media amplifications of him exists. all there is newspaper coverage, which make symbolism even larger because he sort of becomes a

folk hero whose exploits are handed down from father to son as it were. and in this cadre of sportswriters. but he doesn't get the money someone like jack dempsey, red grange, just 10 years later and other pro-football players or collegiate who turned pro. these people made fabulous money. he never hit that level. nobody did when he was playing. >> who was mrs. thorpe? >> there were three mrs. thorpe's. one of his classmates at carlisle, iva miller whom he married. >> a white woman. >> white. she claimed to be indian. in order to get into carlisle you had to have what they would call a blood quantum. this is a government instituted thing but because it was a school for indians you were supposed to be american indian and chief fudge the records in god and. she was not really indian at all. they divorced about 1924, 25 and he married freda kirkpatrick who

is much younger than he was. he had four children with his first wife. the first son died at about age three which was a horrible horrible tragedy and i think affected him for the rest of his life. three daughter survived. the second wife he has four sons. two of those sons survive today. they were divorced. he and freda in 1939 and he married in 1945 patsy thorpe who is the woman he was married to wendy died. she was quite a difficult person. >> white? >> she was fierce and -- on the good side. she felt he had gotten a bum deal and he was not charging enough for speaking gauge meant and he was using his image well enough and he was being taken advantage of. she fought like a line to get him a better deal but she also spent a lot of it. she almost scotched to scott should a deal with warner bros.

for making -- starring burt lancaster. she hassled the studio so relentlessly they almost pulled the plug on it and only when she was through to that movie go one. when he dies of core she then tries to find the best burial place and has to shop the body around which is a bizarre story. >> and you tell it. is this for the town of jim thorpe pennsylvania comes from? yes. there were two small towns facing each other across the low high river with a total population of maybe 5000 they were dying. they had no jobs. this was post-world war ii. they needed to consolidate and long story short, patsy hears about these towns trying to save themselves. she azadi tried oklahoma. she has tried shawnee and tulsa. the body keeps moving around and she finally says to a newspaper publisher, if you change your

name to jim thorpe, consolidating get their municipal service together and change her name to jim thorpe you can have the body. so they sign a contract. i've seen a copy of it, for a body and he goes to jim thorpe pennsylvania. >> is it still there? >> it is still there, yes and the town has dutifully honor jim thorpe all these years. there is jim thorpe high school and they have done well by what they have thomas to do. but, the surviving children, jack thorpe sadly the youngest son just died a few weeks ago. that leaves two sons left. whether they carry on this battle, the lawsuit that was filed last spring almost a-year ago, it under the native american graves protection repatriation act to get the remains exhumed and returned to oklahoma and buried near his father kyle for. >> what is the status again of that case and where do you see it going? >> the status is with jack dying, they got his understand

of a 30-day extension because he was the only one who technically filed the suit, to add on more surviving descendents and the two remaining sons and some tribal members. they were told by the court they needed to be substituted in order to resubmit it. that is where it stood the last time i spoke to jack and his descendents. where i stand on it, if the end result was for jim to come back to oklahoma, i would like to think there was a win-win solution that the town, jim thorpe, which is done so well by him, could keep the name obviously and be the good guys in this and bring the remains back to oklahoma. whether that will happen or not i don't know. >> were you able to talk with a lot of mr. thorpe's descendents for this book? >> all of his children. >> what are they doing? >> there are only two left now. they are quite aged by this point. they have had varied careers. jack a couple of weeks ago was

the chief of the tribe, the one who most reclaimed his indian identity. he lives in shawnee. bill worked as an engineer for many years and has retired now. works for the government of oklahoma. he lives in what we can now, oklahoma which is almost to the texas border. grace thorpe, one of the daughters, was a passionate indian rights advocate and in navigable -- impetigo below her for life. gail was also an advocate for indian issues. charlotte the third daughter worked hard for the reinstatement of the olympic medals and trophies. they were all pistols, terrific people. >> we have been talking with kate buford, author of this new book, "native american son" the life and sporting legend of jim thorpe.

>> things didn't always look so bright for new york city. when i was a kid growing up here in the 1970s it that look us up not just president board but history itself was telling new york to drop dead. the city seemed mired in crime and disorder. the garment insures said he felt that it had left the city essentially unmoored. that situation was not unusual for new york because what new york was going through was a process of de-industrialization common to all of america's older states. one of the themes of this book is that the american dream doesn't have to lie behind a white ticket fence in the suburbs and that cities have been as intrinsic to american history and to our experience as an nation as anyplace else. the very birth of america had its roots in urban interactions

in boston in the 1770s between john hancock who badly wanted the political change that could be created by a mob and sam adams who like many purveyors of liquor knew how to conjure a mob and their connections as created by the city of boston. it changed america, helped create this great country of ours. in the 19th century, the gray problem is making the wealth of the american accessible to the markets of the yeast into your. cities me that happen. they grew up with a great transportation network that enabled the rich dark soil of iowa to become productive. if you go back to 1816 it cost us much to move goods 32 miles overland as it did to ship them across the atlantic. it was enormously difficult to access all the wealth that was in the american history. cities grew up with this great transportation network. the city that grew up along the erie canal. chicago which was started off with the illinois and michigan

canal created a watery arcus band from new york to new orleans. rail only supplemented that transportation network that was usually based on what are. indeed everyone of the 20 largest cities in america in 1900 was on a major waterway. the oldest like new york and boston which were typically where the river meets the sea to the newest, minneapolis on the northernmost point on the mississippi river. industry then grew up around those transportation nodes. new york's three great industries in the 19th century were sugar refining, printing and publishing and garment production. all of them are intimately tied to the port. new york was part of a great triangle trade that involved the caribbean and there was plenty of raw sugar coming into new york which is how the founder of fdr's family fortune got involved in the sugar refining business. he also wasn't anti-british agitator because british mercantilists interfered with his sugar trade. printing and publishing is one of my favorite stories because the big money in 19th century

printing and publishing was in printing and pirating novels. novels. you had to come up with the latest dickens or fleytas walter scott and get it out first. new york sports me that happen. the thing that made the harper brothers succeed in the 1920s with the fact that they could get the latest walter scott novel. they could get them faster than their philadelphia competitors because they were new york. they were in a scrape or that actually got the books first and that enabled them to print first and dominate the market. chicago as well. chicago's greatest industry, the stockyards, of course grew up around around the railyard. the stockyards were next to the rail and in detroit, and even more remarkable event occurred in the rise of the automobile industry. it shows the ability of cities that formed probably mundane reasons to create these chains of innovation that creates some of humankind's greatest endeavors. so if you go back to mid-19th century detroit,, it is a city

with the huge amount of inland trade and it has a great business of taking care of the engines that are on the ships going on the great lakes. detroit dry-docked, a firm in the 19th century, frank kirby, a great shipping entrepreneur, comes they are and they form a critical role educating young people to work with engines like henry ford. henry ford gets his start on the newport drydock. he becomes part of the great chain of entrepreneurship. detroit in the 1900's deals a lot like silicon valley in the 1960s. it is basically an automotive genius on every streetcar kirk. the fisher brothers, the dodge brothers all of whom are inventing and innovating and stealing each other's ideas and supplying each other with and put all who desperately tried to figure out the new thing. and they do it and they create this amazing thing. the mass-produced inexpensive automobile. one of the tragedies of detroit and unfortunately there will be

several tragedies i will talk about in the next couple of minutes, is the way they figured out is by -- the way they're able to make automobiles is by doing something that is fundamentally antithetical. they create walled off factories that are vertically integrated and provide employment for less educated americans on a grand scale. on one level this is great, extremely productive and providing jobs for those americans who struggle. that is wonderful but nothing could be more antithetical to what makes cities works than the great river rouge plant. great wall surrounding the area, little connection with the people around them. for a while it is wildly productive but when the economics change in transportation costs fall that production can easily move to lower cost areas like the right to work states and then of course automobile production across the globe. when those conditions change detroit didn't have the stuff to reinvent itself because it didn't have the culture inertia