urban renewal. now of course the second tragedy of detroit was the way the government response to it. it was exactly the opposite of what it back to troy needed. the government responded, the federal government takes a lot of blame by being ready to subsidize new structures versus urban renewal and spending on transportation for shark shirt creating nonsensical investments like detroit's monorail, the people mover. the problem is that a city like detroit, declining city already has an offensive structures and infrastructure relative to people. the last thing you need where more structure in a place like to try detroit and yet the politicians were they are ready to across the entire rust belt ready to build villages because it looks great. ..

>> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. up next on book tv, myra gutin recounts the four years of barbara bush as first lady. she says she was more politically astute and successful than her husband. details of the former first ladies understanding a public relations. this is about 45 minutes. >> thank you. thank you. good afternoon, everyone. thank you for being here. i was listening to something that someone said as i was coming in.

i have been teaching about first ladies for 30 years. i occasionally will teach a semester-long course, but i also teach to various groups in my community and other communities. i just wanted to share one quick an active with you. one morning i came into a room. barbara bush was prominently featured in this. a woman said to me, i'm wondering. i see that you're going to talk about first ladies. i can hardly wait to hear what you have to say about princess diana. [laughter] and i said, about, actually, she is not someone that i'm going to talk about. she is part of the british royal family. this woman elected me back i had perpetrated and picked herself up and left the room and a never saw her again. says she never get to hear about barbara bush or anyone else for

that matter. but this afternoon might topic very happily is the woman that was known during her time here in washington as the silver fox and has always been known to her family as barb. that is barbara bush. i started to work on the barbara bush book. it seems eons ago, probably the beginning of the 2000's. the book was finally published in 2008. i was very, very fortunate. mrs. bush was kind enough to see me. she made access to every member of her staff available. so i do feel that what i was able to share in the book is a pretty balanced interpretation. her time both in the public eye and in the white house. our time is limited this afternoon. and what i would like to do is share with you some basic

biographical information, just a little bit. if you have questions about that or anything else i'm more than happy to address them during our question and answers session. people have a quick look at her biography. then i would like to share with you some thoughts about her advocacy of literacy, her great success as public communicator, and finally her role and reactions to the campaign of 1992 which can offer heard, in many ways, was a watershed. as i was preparing for this about, there were three questions are really wants to answer for you. one was what made barbara bush different? what made her special? and finally, what was the legacy? generally speaking barbara bush is, perhaps, one of our best ever liked first lady's. perhaps you see that as an achievement.

perhaps you don't. i share with you that the fact she was so popular made it possible for her to achieve the things this did. think of her predecessor, nancy reagan, a very polarizing first lady, her successor, hillary rodham, another polarizing first lady. barbara bush is the still water as these things move along. so, she had tremendous popularity. she was seen as straight talking, down-to-earth, grandmotherly. at least that was the public persona. the private persona was of little bit different. i found her to be a political realist, tough, smart and savvy. she always had her husband's back and still does. the public never saw any of that, and that is certainly okay. as i said, her great popularity helped to get people to buy into her program and to buy her

books, among other things. just very quickly, she was born in new york in 1925. she was the daughter of a gentleman who at that point was the assistant to the editor of mccall's magazine. later on in barber's life he would become the president of mccall's magazine. sheave really enjoy the life of affluence. she went to the private country day school. when she went to his school she went to ask the hall in south carolina. it brings us to an important moment in her life, had danced packed around three country club during christmas break every junior year she was introduced to a young george puppy bush. that was his nickname. she said that when he was in the

room he was so tall and attractive that you could hardly breathe. later on i found this wonderful" she said, when i tell my kids that george bush was the first man i ever kissed they just about to throw up. this is really, by the way, very typical. she is the master of self-deprecating humor. she has never minded pointing at herself and making herself but of rancho. she was smitten with an ambush. he was her and they were married in 1946. he had been a fighter pilot. mrs. bush always thought that she was going to be settling down with an investment banker in new york. much to her surprise george bush said to her, no, i think i would like to have a career in the gas

and oil business. we are going to texas. interestingly they went to texas. it was 19,408th. 1949. and mrs. bush's mother was so appalled that they were going there. she was so convinced that texas in 1949 was just a frontier town that she used to send barbara packages which contained ivory soap and tissues because she wasn't convinced they had stores this all those things. they did. however, being in the oil and gas business in odessa and midland, texas in the early fifties navy was not so much removed from the reality of a frontier town. george w. bush had been born. he was their oldest child, born before they went to texas. when they were in taxes they, unfortunately, i experienced

great sadness. following george w. bush their son, jeb, was born and then a daughter named robin. it was found that robin had leukemia. there is a wonderful interview. it is generally about barbara, but one part of the interview is george bush. he says, we were told by the pediatrician to come and talk to her. she said to us, this child has leukemia. he said, and i'm quoting directly, we didn't know what the hell she was talking about in the early 1950's. what was leukemia. he said, the pediatrician said, well, your daughter is going to live very much longer. they made a decision to take her to new york where she was treated with an experimental protocol and died about five months later. barbara bush, to no surprise of all, have a very difficult time,

dealt with depression for a while. then she demurs from it. the two other boys. finally much to the family's great happiness dorothy bush known as torre, their only daughter was born in 1959. mr. bush went into politics. barbara became the political life. it was observed by reporters at the time that if there were slightly against mr. bush or is he lost a race car rented more seriously. by the way, that has always been the case. barbara has been devastated when mr. bush has been rejected by the voters. so without going into too much of the detail. and i'm happy to answer your questions later. in 1980 mr. bush was poised for a run for the presidency.

now, just before this mrs. bush said she realized since mr. bush a project for this national campaign. she took heart from something that ladybird johnson had said years before. i'm going to quote from my book. lady bird johnson had said about the white house, it would be sad to pass the such a bully pulpit. it is a fleeting chance to do something for your country that makes your heart sang. if your project is useful in people notice it and that reflects well on your husband, that is one of your biggest roles in life. mrs. bush says, i could have never guessed that i would end up with such a chance to be useful and such an enormous return on a relatively modest

effort. she investigated a number of possibilities for her project. she decided that she was going to focus on literacy. there are some people who have suggested that the reason that she picked was receipt was because her son was dyslexic. asked her about it at the time that i interviewed her comanche's said, no, that really was not correct. she was a lifelong reader, a lover of reading, and she just felt -- and here, if people could read she felt everything else was going to be able to be improved. there would be less traduce, less teenage pregnancy. she just felt that it was very important. the receiver is going to be your project. mr. bush was getting ready for the president to campaign. in this campaign in 1980.

barbara bush got on a plane to go to a milwaukee on a campaign stop. she gets off of the plane and goes to the college in milwaukee. the president of the college runs up to her and says, mrs. bush, we are so glad you are here. i have 40 of our state's top literacy experts here to hear you. mrs. bush says, i was panicked because at that point i didn't know anything. so thinking quickly when they all said down barbara bush said to them, well, tell me. if you were married to the president of the united states what would you do. they went around the room. she said before our time was up and only half of them have spoken have was rescued. she said but i took copious notes and learned a lot that day. i continue to learn.

because mr. bush did not win the presidential nomination that year he did when the vice presidential nomination on the ticket with ronald reagan she decided that she was going to continue following up in this area because she thought it was a very solid project and one that would benefit the country. with her own money she hired two people to help per develop this as an area of expertise. she had breakfast where she invited experts to the vice-president residents. she spoke and read. she spoke with experts car read extensively. during her time as wife of the vice-president she was involved in 537 ledger see events. i cannot completely tell you that this is accurate, but my

count at the bush library of religious speeches during the vice presidency was 225 which is a fair amount of speaking about the topic. by the way, i have been ignoring passing around fuss. i will pull these up. and just going to pass them around as a package and invite you to have a look at them so things will move along. thank you. and one of the photos you will see their is mrs. bush greeting to giving children, which she did many times. coming a little bit on the heels of learning all about this was mrs. bush's own foray into writing about -- well, trying to help with the literacy effort and becoming a writer in her own right. she wrote a book in 1984 called c. fred story.

her dog. you may think it is not, but actually it was a dog eye view of what went on in the life of the vice-president and second lady, mrs. bush. that little book earned about $200,000 in profits which mrs. bush was able to a earmarked for various ledger's the organization's. everything, though, would really intensify when she became first lady. she let everyone know when she was on the campaign trail in 1988 that if mr. bush was elected to the warehouse her particular project was going to be the trustee. she made good on that promise. in march of 1989 she formed the barbara bush foundation for family literacy. it continues to exist to this day. the foundation began to publish

materials, give out grants. as of the time i wrote the book, 2008, they had given away $6 million in the trustee grants. mrs. bush said to me, i have nothing to do with the brand selection process. the senate to keep me up today in let me know what's going on. interestingly one of the first ramps was to a literacy project

this whole idea of entered chinchilla -- entered generational literacy. she did talk about it. to travel to school. she traveled to places where students were receiving deep the degrees. she went to project headstart outlets. she showed up on oprah. she spoke about it there. she wrote articles. and we know for sure that she affected both the national literacy act, the adult education act, and the evening star act. this is from a woman by the way, who says, even when i met her i really had no effect on legislation. i would always argue, she put that particular issue, made it part of the national conversation. it seems to me that it was pretty successful. one other thing particularly stands out. in september of 1990 mrs. bush

began to lead stories on the radio teaching children, just 15 minutes every sunday night. the particular program was called mrs. bush's story time. the walmart company was very interested in this. they ended up taking the various stories that you read and put them on sale. you can still buy them and walmart and all of the money goes to the barbara bush foundation for family literacy. highly, highly successful first lady. moving into another area that i wanted to share with you are her efforts as a public communicator. as opposed this warms my heart because i am a professor of communication. i would have to say generally looking at barbara bush that she was active, but she was also cautious.

she never wanted to put herself into the position where it was going to take george bush's political capital to clean up a mess. that was the way she explain this. she also wanted to say early on that she was barbara bush and she was and nancy reagan. there was something that i'll always love to. in the week leading up to the inauguration she was doing an event in washington. mrs. bush says, my mail tells me there are a lot of fight will -- that white-haired ladies that are tickled pink and i'm going to be first lady. she also got a great kick out of the fact that her image showed up on the side of the d.c. bus for an ikea furniture ad. it said, nancy reagan style and barbara bush prices. what is really funny about this is that barbara bush was always

really very wealthy, aristocratic. she probably, you know, was more fun and nancy reagan. no one seems to necessarily react to that. pardon me, as i mentioned, she was really quite an excellent public communicator. she is the last first lady who did not have to deal with 24 / seven coverage. that begins with hillary clinton because cnn really pains legitimacy covering the persian gulf war in 1991. they are off to the races. not only that, but there were no blocs, no social media. it really still was a a different time. the first thing that mrs. bush did. i believe in this regard and perhaps next week barbara perry will speak about this.

they looked at the tour of the white house realize that it had warned her up. people really like her much more after that. both of the bushes, barbara and george, gave a prime-time tour of the white house. it was a tour of the family level of the white house. it was a very endearing. and sam donaldson was one of the reporters who was going on this tour. he says to barbara bush at one point at understand that during world war ii winston churchill used to visit the white house and would walk around in the altogether. if you were first lady would you permit it? and mrs. bush said, i would

definitely permitted, but i would not look. and then later on she goes out onto the right at -- white house about any that had been built by harry truman. sam donaldson sister. you know, mrs. bush, this particular about any was built by mr. chairman. barbara says, well, isn't that interesting. i wouldn't know. i wasn't born then. so she had a good time with it, but it really warmed up both of the bushes. george bush, by the way, walks to one side of the room and showed a toy chest or all of the kids kept the choice to read it was just very humanizing. when she became first lady mrs. bush selected and the press to have had a long history already of working on capitol hill to be her press secretary, and she gave this advice. she said to her, if i said it to my senate.

that meant to may 5 said something, do me a favor. don't interpret what i'm saying. if someone needs to interpret it, i will be the one to do it. please don't do it for me. that is an interesting approach to first lady press relations. you know, many first lady's have many people who will spend things in their -- the way they want them. mrs. bush obviously felt very strongly that she was going to represent yourself. there were no regular press conferences, but press opportunities. mrs. bush got along well with the press, but i found something in her memoir where she said, something that everyone in public life has to understand, she has this in quotes. the press has the last word. she held occasional press meetings in the family quarters of the white house. people would be invited in. she would talk to them. everything was on the record.

the reporters had mixed feelings about her. sometimes they found her very outgoing, very helpful. especially with regard to literacy. other times the founder of the hard to deal with because she was not willing to open up quite as much as they would have liked. but i think i'm safe in saying that is probably the complaint about first ladies going back to mark the washington. nothing new there. starring her time as first lady mrs. bush kayfor hundred 49 speeches. again, a fair amount of public discourse. she did not come easily or naturally to being a public speaker. she worked very hard tannic. early on when they had come to washington she had developed slide shows. she had developed one about the gardens of washington. when they get home from china she had one about china. she would coordinate the speech with the slide show. it worked rather well.

it also gave her confidence as a public speaker. she had speechwriters, but she also had significant input into whatever was being said. this leads me, really, to one of the really defining moments of her time in the white house. she was invited to be the commencement speaker in june of 1990. shortly after it was announced 150 of the 600 soon to be graduating undergrads signed a petition saying they did not want her as their speaker. they felt that she was coming as mrs. george bush instead of barbara bush. she had not had any really significant accomplishments on her own, and that they had been taught to do something quite the opposite. mrs. bush reacted with, really, you know, very good humor.

she said, well, even i was 21 once. they are looking at things a certain way, and i am looking at them another. there are some historians to feel that maybe this reaction cal flies to irritation, but i did not get that sense at all when i interviewed mrs. bush. mrs. bush also said to me, when this whole above occurred there were many wealthy graduates who said they would never again give money to the college. she said weaver hundreds of letters saying please tell stop giving. this is just the opinion of some. in fact, over time as the issue was discussed things began to turn. i just want to quickly share with you a "from paramount bought back from that time who wrote a very serious, about the speech. she wrote, if the wealthy

students cannot imagine what barbara bush could contribute to their education, imagine your own mother is? to deny them of voices to suggest they have not achieved anything of any importance. they give you a voice and a seat at the commencement. how important is that? so, slowly things turned around. the young women who had a poster began to recognize that maybe she had something to tell them. by time she flew up the wellesley on the day of the commencement address they were supposedly in her corner. i just want to very quickly share something that she said near the end of the speech. she wanted the wealthy women to make three choices, try to get involved in something bigger than themselves. she said in her case that was literacy. make sure life has joy. she said in her case that was marrying george bush. and also to not miss the joy of

humans connection. al is thought that this little passage was really very, very nice and will put. i know from the six different versions that i saw the speech that barbara bush had to give input into this. she said, for several years you have had impressed upon you the importance of dedication and hard work. this is true. as important are your obligations, your obligations as a doctor, lawyer, or business leader will be. you are a human being first. those human connections, spouses with children with friends of the most important investments you will ever make. at the end of your life you will never regret not having passed one more test, not a winning one more verdict were not closing one more deal. you will regret very much time not spent with her husband, friend, a child, or parent.

and at the end came that he is the resistance which ended up on page number one of every newspaper in our country. she said, and he knows? sitting out there. he knows, somewhere out there in this audience may be someone who will one day follow in my footsteps and preside over the white house as the president's spouse. and i wish him well. so she was a very good speaker. a very tackle. she told me she never made changes in his speech text. when she got to the podium. i found that to be not the case because i saw lots of comments that she must have been so then. she certainly made them. that also speaks to a very confident speaker. so, by the way, that was the

speech is, to my knowledge, the most anthologized first lady's speech of all. that even includes eleanor roosevelt. so, i believe that as a public communique she was a great success. as i say, she was very careful about what she said and how she said it. this press me to the last topic that i would like to discuss with you this afternoon before we have a chance to chat. that is the campaign of 1992. in 1988 barbara bush's role was not the same as '92. her popularity grew immensely in the white house. so in 88 she gave some speeches. she certainly spoke to groups. 1992, again, was a different ball game. the president had experienced a precipitous drop in his popularity.

at the height of the persian gulf war i think his approval ratings were in the high 80's. by time the '92 campaign began there were probably around the 40's. 1992 did not begin well. this is also another great barbara bush story. they had gone to japan to talk to the japanese who i know are very much in our minds right now , about trade agreements. the afternoon that they were there, the first afternoon, just as a social event, it together, the president and our american ambassador had played tennis with the crown prince of japan and the emperor. there were badly beaten. well, that night there was a state dinner in honor of the bushes. mr. bush on the way over set to barbara, i'm not feeling well.

she said, well, do you think we should go back? he said no. and the guy can do it. they got there. he got on the receiving line and said to her, i really don't feel good. they said down. he was sitting next to the japanese prime minister and promptly vaunted in the man's lap and passed out. he had that bad intestinal flu. he was taken out by his doctors, and the doctors said to barbara, he's going to be fine. it's nothing serious. the prime minister said to barbara, would you like to say something. says she said, you know, i can't explain what happened to george because it's never happened before. i'm beginning to think it is the ambassadors' talks. he and george played the emperor and crown prince in tennis today and they were badly beaten. we bushes aren't used to that. he felt much worse than i

thought. so she really did save the day. from that point on their were questions through the whole '92 campaign about president bush's health. something else also that i have referred to surfaced very early on in the '92 campaign, and that was that barbara bush was way more popular than husband. some of you may recall there was a campaign button back in the time of betty ford. it said, i'm voting for bodies has been. all of a sudden there were buttons that said i'm voting for barbara's husband. as the campaign continued on mr. bush is using phrases like barbara and i think where barbara and i believe. by the way, that is a strategy that other presidents have used as well. when he eventually got the republican nomination barbara was worried. they had already had to surmount

a primary challenge from patrick buchanan and h. ross perot. they were also taking a fair amount of heat for mr. bush's appointment to the supreme court of clarence thomas. says she had a certain amount of concern. then came the clintons. things with the plans started out on kind of a strange footing the magazine concocted what became known as the great cookie controversy. some of you, i can see nodding your has remember this. the question was, who baked the better chocolate chip cookies. was it barbara bush or was it hillary clinton? hillary consort of dismissed this and said to live too busy to bake cookies. you know, let's forget about this. mrs. bush said she thought the whole thing was forgotten.

then a few months later the same magazine ran a story saying that in a taste test people like hillary clinton's cookies better. barbara bush said, well, that is interesting because that's not my recipe. well, i mention it because even though it seems like a silly game, perhaps, it garnered of a sudden some very serious comments from reporters and columnists. this also gave mrs. bush a certain amount of borrowing to seize with what she saw developing your. she gave a very much heralded speech at the republican national convention. she talked about her husband as the most dedicated, healthiest man she knew. she brought out her family and then after that she took to the campaign trail. during that campaign she gave 61 formal speeches, but she was

busy with phone banks, and she was sharing on volunteers, involved in the rally in texas. she said to people, we need george bush's texas. as you all know, the country did not agree. on that particular tuesday in november basin george bush back to texas in maine and left barbara bush with a very, very sour taste in her mouth. she felt that the country had not really given him a chance and that he had learned a second term as president. so it had to be rather bitter when she left the white house in january of 1993. she did enjoy retirement, much to her surprise.

she broke her biography, memoir. another book. she became more active with religious the initiative, and then she saw her two oldest sons george w. and jeb go into politics with jeb first elected governor of florida in stores w then the governor of texas. she told george w. he should not run for governor. she was really worried about him. she was worried about the press treatment of both the for sons. but she must have had tremendous happiness when mr. bush was elected president. so, today she shares a distinction with abigail adams, and that is she was both the wife of the president's and the mother of the president. the bush's continued to live happily. mr. bush is still jumping out of airplanes on his birthday.

mrs. bush has had some health issues, but she is still pretty well. i would like to conclude my comments by actually reading this last paragraph in the book. so i said, barbara pierce bush remains an enigma. few would argue with her celebrity, popularity, or influence. that she used her considerable energies to improve the lot of americans in the area of literacy is a testament to a white house tenure. she has certainly heard the title. she became the public face of the george h. w. administration with cousin travel, participation in ceremonial events in speeches. she used the white house podium effectively. she was a perspective that perceptive politician who knew how to work the crowd or been been on if necessary. during her busy public life she made a number of comments that might have tarnished her image. her good works of more than

restored machine. barbara bush has lived a busy life in the service to george h. w. bush and his family, friends, and country. while there has been an ebb and flow to advance, hers has been a life well lived in a thank you very much. [applause] [applause] if you have any questions i would be more than happy to answer them. >> the commencement speakers, was that the time she had gorbachev with her? >> yes. accompanies her that day. she introduced mr. gorbachev. ms. garza also spoke to the graduates. and that, too, offered an interesting counterpoint to nancy reagan because nancy reagan and gorbachev did not get along and all. so it was quite a bit different.

sir. >> the comment i was waiting for you to talk about was the rhymes with which comment. could you put that in context? >> i certainly could. you know, i just ran out of time. i'm sorry. i did have it here. the comment that this gentleman is referring to came about in 1984. it was mr. bush running for reelection as vice president. he had a debate with geraldine ferraro, the democratic nominee for vice presidents. in the debate ferrara said that he had no idea when normal people were going through because his wealth and so it is him from normal life. so mrs. bush was on the campaign trail, the campaign airplane the

next day. she was talking to reporters. she was obviously really unhappy about that comment. she said, well, you know, geraldine ferraro and her husband, they probably have more money than george bush. they could probably buy and sell george bush. then she said, and i can say with that woman is, but it rhymes with which. i'm sorry. i can say what that woman is but it rhymes with which. so the reporters looked at each other. and i'm sure they ran for the telephones. by the time they landed the comment was all over. it happened to be helene. so the reporters said to her when she landed the next stop, did you mean, you know, that it rhymes with -- and i said i

would never say that she is a rich. now, some of the reporters that i have spoken to in years after said they thought that it was a preconceived comments, that it had been planned, that mrs. bush was too much of a political professional to say something like that to reporters and not understand its implications. they thought she meant to get in and jab. she got it in, but then she had something to retreat into. so that was the comment. but interestingly it follows a to the state. yes, ma'am. >> how was she as a mother in law? >> how is she as a mother in law, especially to?

>> laura bush. >> okay. the sea. i think that she has tried to have cordial relations with all of her children. i have been told from time to time that the two of them have a respectful but somewhat distant relationship. i cannot attest to that myself. there is a story, and again, i don't know if it is apocryphal were true. yes. if it is apocryphal or not. when laura bush was first brought up to meet the extended family she mad george's grandmother, dorothy bush. the first president's mother said to her what to you do? what is your story? supposedly laura was supposed to have responded, well, i read in

as smoke. then there were questions of how well the went down with barbara bush. no one has ever really said. i think it is probably fair to characterize it as may be distant, maybe more cordial. certainly the relationship with her grandchildren is very warm. she sees them a lot. his comments? >> i seem to remember that when barbara bush first became first lady some reporter asked her a question devolving the name of eleanor roosevelt. to which barbara replied something like don't talk to me about eleanor roosevelt. my family -- and i forget the

rest. i was kind of wondering what her family had against eleanor roosevelt? i have my own opinions. >> well, probably the fact that her father and a read the whole family were not fans of any have residents social or economic policies. i did hear mrs. bush at one. talk about the fact that her mother had detested eleanor roosevelt. she thought that she was a busybody, running around around the country until she met her. then she really did reverser opinion. i think that over time maybe barbara bush will also the reverser opinion. i remember the comment as well. >> is, ma'am? >> difficult to deal with her husband's villiers. did she comments about her son

as president? >> she said almost nothing for publication. i do know from some things that i have read that she was very concerned about our involvement in a rock. she had real concerns about the spelling in and what was going to happen. beyond that she really has not said very much about his presidency. you all may remember there was that one incident early in his presidency. george w. bush was eating a pretzel. he started to choke on it. she said that was payback for his having criticized for cooking.

>> a little bit about nancy reagan's circle of friends, but i don't recall ever hearing anything about barbara bush's friends. >> i think she had a fair number who came to the white house, but i think she was very careful about it and kept it very quiet. she certainly has a group of friends that she has had for a long time. i'm blanking on the name of one of them in particular. you know, they certainly were not -- they did not have the glitz and glamour of any of nancy reagan's friends. she was supported by numerous friends and, of course, family. once again to my thank you very much. it is been my pleasure. >> part of the university press at kansas modern first lady

series. for more information visit kansas press kupdu. >> in your book you talk about one of the life changing moments. you're watching the hearing. what happens? >> i just get ready for college, a place where it was like my bar mitzvah. i thought that i would learn in education and ideas and, but i left feeling very empty because i just learned how to chant. i felt i was open for a spiritual experience that i didn't get. i felt the exact same way in college where i was an american studies major. the stuff i was reading was incomprehensible. it was jargon. it had a lack of comprehension to a person who doesn't understand that language. it was a demoralizing. i graduated less skilled, less

motivated, and i was a waiter. my education was a lack of an education. and so i was waiting tables breath after graduating college. i finished my lunch shift. >> your friends would say to you, why are you doing this? >> it was embarrassing, humiliating, and the best thing that ever happened in my life, the humiliation of having to work and the people i was always looking up to in trying to impress looking down on me. i started to pay for my honshu's. >> with your premise that kill you off. >> yes. it was brittle. that is why i'd dedicate the book to my father cut me off and clarence thomas is the same time. both of their guidance in my life coincided. >> that is a good segue. >> yes. well, i went from my way job watching the hearings wanting to

read for the takedown of clarence thomas. i watched the television sets. the television set told me that this was a bad man. the newspapers told me that he was a bad man. i remember eleanor i've watched these hearings like a spectator who wanted to see somebody mauled. lyons mauling romans. i watched day one, too, the entire thing. i went and from watching him to be taken down to wondering where's the beef. i don't understand what i'm watching, the color commentary that is on the screen. a didn't understand the bumper stickers ever going by me on the street. i believe.

what is going on. i don't understand what's going on. everything i knew, everything and picked up a college in my american studies cultural marxist oppressor oppressed black people always white, white people are always wrong, i did not understand how ted kennedy, the ted kennedy a chappaquiddick fame, a series of white privileged man could sit in judgment of this man who was the son of grandparents who were sharecroppers who raised him. he went to yale law school. he did everything right including allowing for in the jail to rise to the ranks of the legal profession three jobs with him where she never had the central relationship with him and all. he did nothing and toward. she was party to the takedown. i did not understand how it could be that these white people of privilege or attacking this black man in this historic

position where the mainstream media to condemn. the naacp and the urban league and other black liberal leaders sat and seemed to relish this take them. >> you had this mentor at the time who we would get to later who is brutally murdered. you didn't know. you had this mentor. it was a long that time did he started questioning the induct -- indoctrination. >> the smartest person i ever met was this dynamite. i was delivering pizza in high-school. he was just different, alternative, and the smartest guy i ever knew. in hindsight, not the most ethical guy. he take the sats for a bunch of my friends and get them 1600's them of the smartest guy that you could ever meet. he dropped out of uc santa barbara. while i was going to college he was floundering in doing drugs. during the time that he was my

mentor he was taking me to alternative bookstores to read about left-wing ideas. you know, you very much was into the class struggle. when i started to have these epiphanies, when i started to get my job, as i was aspiring to be in intellect, trying to understand his world view, trying to embrace the struggle at a certain point my dad said something that nobody told him. you need to get the job. you need to clean up, get your act together, stop doing drugs. so there was a certain point where i started to challenge my mentor. it wasn't that i felt that i was an intellect and that i was able to beat him at the game of, you know, s.a.t. scores. it was about 400 points below him on that level, but i started to gain the self-confidence and the self-respect that i could call him out on his best behavior. i just started to move away from the sky. i got a phone call as i was starting to move toward

independence and away from this victimology that absolutely dominated this guy's consciousness. i get a phone call that he was murdered at a hotel room in los angeles. i imagine that it was during a drug deal that went bad. to this day i think about how i've never cried about that. you know,. >> but your story, the humiliation, and how you had to negotiate with the professor to did you a higher grade so you could graduate because he realized if he didn't graduate much more of your life be lost. then a friend of yours a yale who is very bright called and said, i have the perfect job for you. >> yes. he was an avid physics major. seth jacobson. in astrophysics major who always cared for me. he always knew that in prep

school i was not going to be the a student but that i was the class clown but that i met well. you know, that was how i skirted around my adt. i was able to maintain a place in an elite prep academy where everybody was harvard, stanford, princeton bound. i knew i would not be going to end of the academy. that did not want to leave my friends. sets new my burden. >> you visited him. >> he visited me and said i need to take you on a walk. he said i need to take you on a walk. he took me on a walk around the street in santa monica and said -- and this is when i was utterly word. he said, i've seen your future. it's this thing called the internet. it works the way your brain works. at that point i had been diagnosed with a dull a dd. i had tried ritalin for about a month and they hated it. i felt hideous about it. i was trying to figure out how i could conform to the work place

where people have to work in cubicles. i knew that i couldn't do that. i would rather drive around l.a. listening to talk radio or music. >> oh, but you left that as a listening to rush limbaugh. >> a high. anyway, he told me i have seen the instead, the future. i still to this date think that there is something almost to the area about that because he is right. the internet does work the way that my brain works. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> we are at the national press club talking with androgen. the new book walk in my shoes. can you tell us how you came up with the fda to be doing the book? >> well, he came to interview me when i was mayor. he was in second grade. we started to a. i was impressed with them as a

second grader. then he had been through london school, economics. now he is a banker with j.p. morgan. we were 50 years apart. so it is an intergenerational dialogue. we don't agree on anything. we say things and do things to provoke each other intellectually. what that does is it makes for lively kind of salty and diaz. >> what are some of these debates the to have? >> really messed things. i think one of our biggest debates is on the economy and why and employment right now, how we should go about solving that cross all rights, a big leader in the civil-rights movement. you know, jobs is really part and parcel. we argue about the approach to solving this.

we also argue. he believes and arrange marriages. i don't. you know, i think we need to find someone for you. all you'll find someone for you. thanks but no thanks. we argue about love, life, religion, and politics. >> is there a sequel? >> you never can tell. this, we finished about a year ago. we still talk probably every other week and we still find something to disagree about. the thing is that the world is a complex place. he is traveling around now. i've traveled around to more than 100 countries in my lifetime. so we're always comparing notes. our real objective is to try to de