>> that was half a dozen too many. the following evening april 16 president kennedy canceled the second round of airstrikes that were scheduled for the morning at april 17. these strikes are meant to complete the job destroying castro's air force. why kennedy canceled his industry. he had become the most common explanation is that you become very concerned about public and international actions had been stirred up by the first round of airstrikes. it had become clear that the

whole world realize the united states was behind air attacks almost a moguls first bombs fell on the 15th. and kennedy was concerned about provoking something, about lighting a match that would lead to a great nuclear problem. so with the advice of his secretary of state and russia, who called off these airstrikes. among the cia planners, they discovered this on the evening of april 16. they were horrified. it had been understood innovation had a chance cast of air force had to be taken out. at the moment kennedy canceled the strikes, everyone understood exactly what it meant. it was doomed. this was confirmed the following morning before the brigade had even completed its land. castro's plant show that over

the bay of pigs and very quickly sunk to supply ships. the four other brigade ships also under air attack fled for international waters. with those two sunken ships and a way with the of the four ships, went the brigade ammunition, much of its food and medical supplies, much of its communications equipment, and virtually any fighting chance the brigade had. this is not to suggest that a second airstrike has not been canceled, the invasion would have achieved what i did the cia or the brigade would've wanted to achieve. but there's no question at the moment of airstrikes were canceled it was over. which is why to this day many cuban exiles who fought at the bay of pigs had deep animosity but john kennedy, even 50 years later. their brigade was essentially stranded there on the beach is running out of ammunition and under constant bombardment as

castro had his army in column after column. by the 18th, the brigade was weathering and on the 19th it came to an end. castro's troops swept in and the grade scramble to this one. but not before one last tragedy. the final morning, april 19, american pilots from the alabama air national guard who have been brought in to help train the brigade pilots flew from the brigade airbase. they did this because the brigade pilots had been flying virtually nonstop and it suffered casualties and these americans volunteered to fly in their place. that morning their planes were shot down at all four were killed including a 30 year old pilot named thomas ray. thomas raise daughter, jenna, is here. as for veterans of the brigade

when i visited them two years ago over the 40th anniversary of the bay of pigs. i'm grateful or your help and for their help. and i'm grateful to all of you for coming and listening to me tonight. what i want to do now is give you a chance to ask any questions that you might have on make any brief comments. we've got c-span here with us so please wait for the microphone to come over before you speak. and please, because there are so many of us are try, try to keep it brief so that everybody gets a chance who wants to say something will get a chance to do so. okay? thank you very thank you very much. [applause] >> thank you, thank you. i'm going to start there. with this gentleman right here. go ahead. >> your book is the first one, although there are many, that

mentions the meeting agenda with 28 when he briefed kennedy for the first time. at the end -- at the end of the memo, the question will come in a moment. at the end of the memo that was prepared, it comes out at the end of the operation would be for the u.s. to come in after the beachhead had been established to my question to you is, i know because i've read it, but that wasn't the first plan. were you able to find that anywhere else? and we able to find mention of it anywhere else after that? >> what specifically do you mean? >> the fact that the u.s. was going to come in after the beachhead? >> that was always part of the original plan, then again, the

idea was never that these 1400 men were going to take over cuba. some people seem to think that but that wasn't the plan. the plan was they would set of this beachhead and then they would call for help. that's why, i haven't mentioned this but there was a fleet of american aircraft just over the horizon during the brigade. an aircraft carrier and a set of destroyers. they were there to help out. one of those ships that 30,000 rifles to give to any cuban who would want to join in the invasion. there were tanks on the ships. there were trucks on those ships. they were set just waiting for the word go to bring this equipment and and help the out. >> i have a question. a decision that john f. kennedy made at the bay of pigs, do you think that resulted in his assassination or played a part

in that decision? >> i think probably lead harvey oswald's mind it. there's of course a question of whether fidel castro ordered it. lyndon johnson said something like castro knew that kennedy wanted to kill him so he want to kill kennedy. so there was a lot of speculation that castro may have ordered this himself. castro denies vehemently. we know that oswald visited the cuban embassy in mexico shortly before the assassination apparatus some sort of signal working indication. but we know for sure is that oswald, he was in the soviet union when the a of pigs happen and was infuriated by it. and thought that he was doing fidel castro a favor by going after john kennedy. so indirectly yes, i do think the bay of pigs definitely leads

to the assassination of kennedy. mfa more direct link but that's very difficult, maybe impossible, to improve. over here, please. outcome do you any second. second. >> what's confusing to me is after the first day of the invasion it became very clear the u.s. decline, then if it was know that the secondary airstrikes on the 17th, the invasion was doomed, are you basically saying that the cause, kennedy was afraid of lighting the match against the soviet union, that he was willing to sacrifice the 1400 men for the good of the bigger picture? >> it's a haunting question. >> how you portrayed this, whether we are in favor or not in favor of war or in favor are not in favor of getting rid of castro by putting the plan in place, we had already committed.

and anything short of that, you said there's no guarantee what were, anything short of that would be a disaster. so it's hard to imagine that 1400 lives would be sacrificed, or whatever, the bigger picture. >> i'm sure john kennedy never thought those chilling terms. i'm never thought i will sacrifice those 1400 lives. i think what he wanted was to have his cake and eat it too. you want to sort of an immaculate invasion. he wanted to invade cuba. you wanted to get castro out but he didn't want to start anything with the soviet union. did he say to an evening of the 16th saying to himself, too bad for those guys, you know, i'm canceling the follow-up airstrike. i don't think so. but i think conflict with himself he had from the very beginning, in many ways it had

been set up long before the case he had always been conflicted about it. he did -- be a cia knew that's what you done. he basically set them up to fail. i guess i do think the thing that makes me think that he was cold hearted enough to do it intentionally, and we do know he did really feel very truly depressed about it afterward. he went into a deep depression. and i'm sure it was because he knew he had done something pretty terrible. i think he did it in his own mind or the right reasons, but clearly he knew that he set these guys up to fail. i'm going to come to this side of the room, please. >> there were american warships, they were ready to assist in the invasion. there were tanks coming off carrier ships. there were a sophisticated weaponry that was brought into

cuba in a large-scale invasion. how can anybody talk to anyone into saying that we could deny, that we're plausibly denying? even if we had won the war. how could anybody talk him into that? >> this gets into the oddness of plausible denial in the cold war. the ietf -- idea was not totally now. it was that you could hide behind this covert front, and it lowered the heat, it lowered the stakes. for example, u2, the spy plane, we are flying a u2 over the soviet union. the soviets knew we're flying the u2 over the soviet union and we knew they knew. nobody said anything. because nobody wanted to admit. so to go back to your question,

i don't think anyone thought we will be able to completely deny this, but the hope was we can plausibly deny it. we can say we were there to help out if they asked us to help them. we were there as a friend. but we were in no way behind it. we weren't the ones instigating a. we weren't the ones funding it. so they could deny parts of it, and while accepting other parts of it. did not answer the question? -- did not answer the question? >> did you find any information regarding infiltration of the brigade by castro intelligence sources that already gave up the planning before the even landed? >> i did not. but it's not -- that's not because it's not out to be i think it's commonly assumed that he did know. it's hard to believe -- its

spies in miami so certainly he knew what was going on with the cuban exiles in miami. he just had to pick up the newspaper if you want to know what was going on because there were newspaper reports about the training camps and guatemala. on january 10 "the new york times" ran a story, which said that there would be the string against and guatemala. it ended up being not that bad because the new times reporter was kind of fooled and thought these soldiers were guatemala's president exiles. but nontheless, castro could read between the lines. he knew something was coming. then when john kennedy made a press conference on the 12th right for the invasion, he said that they would be no, that should there be an invasion of cuba, though be no american involvement in. forecaster, that said al. clear these guys are coming in the second. there's also you may know the story that somebody leaked the

soviet intelligence the fact that the obedient actual -- they would be the actual invasion invasion day. i love that made much of a difference because castor new. castro had been on high alert, all winter, all spring. he was ready. he stayed up all night smoking cigars waiting night after night for this to happen. when it did happen he's going to happen. the only thing he didn't know was where it would happen. once he found out he was ready to go. this young woman here. >> i'm the godmother of allen's great-grandson, and my husband is cuban. i found out that my friend, she knew my cousin was keeping him she asked me can we still be friends? so what i'm asking you is how

libel is alan for all of this? >> well, dulles, i don't think that cubans, cuban exiles would be upset with adults. talus was on their side. he very much wanted to see it through. he also very much wanted president kennedy to rescue them when it was clear that they were failing. dollars for odd reasons was not asked in the country when the invasion occurred. he was in puerto rico, but there were a number of attempts to get john kennedy to approve air cover. there was an enormous amount of american firepower just offshores, including an aircraft carrier with fighter jet. so they can sing just was happy for a little bit of time but others are saying to give a little bit of air cover to the

brigade, you have to remember the brigade is there begging for help. they could read the intercepts coming in from the beaches. they are just heart wrenching. please help us, please come. we are dying here. rescue us. just send in one plane. sin in some place, please. kennedy never did. but the cia pushed for it. some people think this was a pushed hard enough but certainly goes, dulles wanted that. so i think you and this woman could be friends. >> i just saw this series on television, they can be series, i want to segments talked in detail about this invasion. i must say, two-part. my first part is how accurate, if you saw the series -- >> i did. >> sorry. one of the things they brought out in the end i don't know is

true, but they said it was what shocked me. i lived in that invasion. and one of the things they said was to the present day they acknowledged one of the mistakes they made was that there was a full moon on the night of the invasion. and i remembered, yeah, that was true. that makes no sense. how could they have done that? they made a big point of that in -- >> yeah, one of the -- on the morning, the cuban ambassadors of the united nations also made the point that there were some spots that day, and some of the cia was so diabolical they arranged these to screw up radio waves or something. i don't know that much about

meteorology. it wasn't intentionally done on a moonlit night. anybody else? standing back here in the yellow shirt. >> measurable go into how kennedy change the invasion plan from trinidad to the bay of pigs? >> yes. >> that was pivotal. >> that was pivotal, yes. >> and as far as legs, they rounded up 150,000 people right before the invasion who were supposed to take part in all kinds of antigovernment activities. they filled the stadium in havana and throughout cuba. and that would've been pivotal but that was leaked to the castro government. do you cover that also? >> i certainly cover the fact that these people were rounded up, and goes to the problem of hoping for a populist uprising against castro in cuba. anybody gets castor is either in jail or in miami.

there were many people left who were free in cuba who are against castro. [inaudible] they didn't send us because she was five and i was five and a half. otherwise we would have done. [inaudible] but only 1200 to 1400, i understand landed. my uncle was part of the teams that were supposed to go in ahead of the invasion to help the resistance and prepare, and he never landed. they found out about the invasion later. >> there were many other units. they were false invasions. they were infiltrations. there were a number of things going on at the same time. the actual brigade, that landed was about 1400, but yes, there were hundreds of others who are involved in operations against

cuba at the time. >> i've heard that the planes that bombed airfields the day before the attacks were painted in cuban colors to make it seem as though the planes were cuban themselves, is about to? >> that is true. the whole plan was to try to make those air attacks look as if they had been carried out by castro's own pilots. so part of that plan was to have, you had eight bombers. you also had other so by a pilot who flew directly from nicaragua to miami, landed in a be 26 and claimed that as part of the conspiracy of cuban put to that morning had bombed their own airfield. and now it's coming to the united states. that fell apart quickly for a number of reasons. the one thing that is beaten six is different from the be 26 in

cassis air force. and enterprise journalist figure that out rather quickly. for example, he had his machine guns in the nose cone, cassis machine guns were mounted under the wings. so that was part of how this whole why john kennedy ended up canceling the airstrikes on the 16th. because once people realized this was not true, a charade, they realized wait a minute, something is not right about this and they started looking at the americans for answers as to what was going on. so yeah, they were all marked to look like castro's planes. somebody over here. i will come to you in a second. yes. >> in your opening remarks referred to the fact that kennedy was concerned about provoking russia, by his actions in the bay of pigs, and then the invasion. do you go into in the book?

and the subsequent happen because, you know, for five months later the berlin wall went up and i'm sure that was triggered by his weakness in the bay of pigs, eight months later in vietnam explode. that was all in consequence. when they detected that he was, what they interpreted to be weak, that triggered a lot of problems. >> and john kennedy knew that. he went to a summit in vienna in june with khrushchev, and khrushchev ate his lunch. and kennedy afterwards said, he thinks i'm stupid and weak because of what happened at the bay of pigs. and certainly you can make a connection then the khrushchev making this move to put up the berlin wall. although in some ways the berlin wall is confused but that's another topic it is story. >> but it triggered the wall

being built. >> well, that's true. there were certain, kennedy was certainly very aware of that when he went to a summit with khrushchev. look, the repercussions of the bay of pigs just kept going. all through. they really didn't and for kennedy until the cuban missile crisis, but, you know, a lot of things, the vietnam war in many ways started on april 20, the day after the bay of pigs. john kennedy needing a victory against the communists ordered a task force to look for a way to stop communism in south vietnam. and very quickly after that sent more men, 400 more men to vietnam, really the first step into did not begin on the beaches of cuba. this gentleman here and then i will come over there. >> thank you. in my mind there must have been

some thought of cause that caused kennedy to back away from a second airstrike or even after that first air strike, are you aware or is any documentation of any conversation between john f. kennedy and khrushchev in the day after the first airstrike? >> no. >> calling john kerry didn't back off to? >> no. the conversations were with the secretary of state advise him your khrushchev did on the 18th send a very threatening letter to john kennedy, really saying if you buy the lives of the people you better back off. you know, in the cold war the stakes are always so high. and i think that's why we have to have some sympathy for these presidents who served when -- there were always a few decisions away from nuclear war, at least they thought they were. prince charles said -- i can't

quote the letter, it's in the book, but you better get out of cuba or we're going to come after you. so there certainly communications act of that and kennedy responded to that. yes? >> during a research did you come across any documentation that after the election the republican administration even want to back off are wanted to accelerate it to? >> there was a cia history done in the 1970s, and he remarked upon the fact that eisenhower for some reason really seemed to start pushing it in after the election, just before kennedy took over. and it may be because i is now before that was afraid that doing something to muck up nixon's chances. it may be that he was just trying to and kennedy a tough

problem. i doubt it, but he did really try -- i think what you want to do is handle something that was ready to go. now, i somehow did later state that he never met this to be a plan. he called it a program. in other words, it was an asset that wasn't something that had to be done costly later tonight to get much responsibly for. although we were, for a year this plan lived under eisenhower and it only lived under kennedy for three months. i think we take a few more questions. somebody who was not asked yet. go ahead, please. >> can you elaborate on before alabama national guard, with the history behind that? i do think it was made clear that they had gotten shot down for several years. and what's the status of those gentlemen now? >> well, there's some here who know more about that than i do. they had been brought in to

train the cia pilots. they were not meant to fly. there was always a backup plan that may be do be used to fly but that really wasn't their main function. and it is true that when they were killed, the kennedy administration and then the cia denied that does happen, they came up with a cover story for how they died. and actually one of the most shameful parts of the whole thing because these men died trying to serve their country, trying to do the right thing, and then their families were like you about how they died. through the efforts of janet ray, namely, and other people, that -- the truth came out and we now all know what the truth is. that these four men died in battle fighting for their country. let me take one more question. you had one. did you want to ask what? >> you said that president kennedy felt guilty for not

ordering the second airstrike, but he made it clear he was upset with the cia over the failure of the bay of pigs because he fired many of the heads of the cia after. >> that's right. he fired allen dulles, richard bissell and he fired charles koppel was the second-in-command of the cia. he fired the whole top. he was upset with the caa. he thought the cia misled them. hardeeville young to understand that was scapegoating, and i don't mean it as being highly critical. even before the invasion arthur schlesinger wrote a memo saying if something should batch of happen, somebody snagged has to go on the chopping block and it can't be the president. so it was the cia's, and to -- that's part of the top of the caa, you know, they have to take the heat when things like this happen. and day, they, you know, it was

their baby and bissell, it was the end of his career certainly. he worked at a corporation in connecticut the rest of his life and change the lives of many people in the caa whose careers basically, not just the top three guys, ended with a. kennedy was clergy want to shatter the cia into a thousand pieces. he didn't do that but he was certainly upset. do we have time for one more? let's do one more question here and then we will speed does the book explore the issue of why allen dulles was in puerto rico, left to run probably one of the highest profile operations the caa had planned in many, many years? to joe biz flow who was dashed our richard bissell who was an underling of his, was it any further delving into that situation? >> yeah, there was an indication that was developed many months

before. and builds his paper i found invitation to is from the and present association of america. basically this was a retreat for young american executives and invited alan goes to come talk. and told us what because it was thought if he didn't go he would be a tipoff to castro that the invasion was about to happen. and that if he did go to puerto rico, it would be one more indication that the united states had nothing to do with it. now, in moscow the newspaper immediately, they were saying allen dulles was intentional in puerto rico so he could run the operation from puerto rico. that's not true. that if i did give the speech the same time that the ships were split in the bay of pigs. that same or he was chatting to this group of young executives and it is rather bizarre, but it was thought to be the right thing to do. he did not much was happening until he came back that eating. and learned at the airport how badly things were going.

and then he told his aides let's go get a stiff drink. that's how he handled that. i think we need to cut it off here. i will take care -- can we do any more questions? okay. >> i don't understand how, if everyone in the world knew that this was going to happen, the cia didn't know that castro new. did they not have any people infiltrated in the castro organization at the time? if everybody knew, then how did dulles not know that everyone knew? >> yes. it is, goes back to the weird psychology of the cold war. everybody knew, but again it was that they thought they're going to get away and nobody would ever suspect the united states. it's just that they wanted enough deniability to hide behind that, really so the crew shop wasn't in a position where he