>> this listening exercise before a wide number of groups. >> order, question to the prime minister. mr. philip holibone. >> thank you, mr. speaker. i'm sure the whole house would to give thought -- he was a

selfless enthuse assic and committed marine who made the ultimate sacrifice in the service of our country. our thoughts will be with his family, his friends and his colleagues. mr. speaker i had meetings with ministerial colleagues and in addition to my duties in the house i'll be travelling to dublin by the historic visit by the queen. >> may i say myself and my constituents with the president's words of condolence. under rules introduced in 2003, illegal migrants who managed to avoid the authorities for 14 years are able to apply for permanent stay, have full access to the welfare system and can even obtain a british passport. given that in the last eight years, nearly 10,000 such migrants have won such rights. and with an estimated half a million illegal immigrants in britain today, will the prime minister seek to change these rules and restore some sanity to

wichita's border controls? >> well, my honorable friend makes an important point and we have pledged to break the link between temporary migration. we believe it should be a privilege rather than a right. we're going to consult on further measures including the future of the 14-year rule that he mentions. we've already announced there'll be tighter rules for those wanting to settle here and have already implemented a new income and english language requirement for skilled workers who have been here for more than five years. >> dave miliband. >> mr. speaker, can i start by joining the prime minister in paying respect to nigel mead. he showed bravery and courage in our troops and our thoughts are with his family and friends. mr. speaker, the role of the justice secretary is to speak for the nation on matters of

justice and crime. this morning, the -- this morning the justice secretary was on the radio suggesting that there were serious raids and other serious category of raids. would the prime minister now like to take the opportunity to distance himself from the district secretary's comments? >> well, first of all let me say rapes should be met with proper punishment. nip who's ever met a rape victim and talked to them about what that experience means to them and how it stays with them for the rest of their lives could only want to have the most serious punishment possible. the real disgrace in our country is that only 6% of rapes that are reported to a police station end in a conviction. that is what we have to sort out. now, i have not heard the justice secretary's interview but the position of the government is very clear. that there is an offense called rape and anyone who commits it should be prosecuted, convicted

and punished very clearly. >> well, let me tell him what the justice secretary said this morning. because he was asked about the average time that a rapist gets and he was -- and the interviewer said the rapest gets five years and the justice department says that includes date rapes, intercourse with 17s ours with 15s and were there were forcible rape and serious rape. the justice department cannot speak for the women of this country when he makes comments like that. >> as i've say i've not heard this interview but the point is this. the point is this. it should be a matter for the court to decide the seriousness of the offense and the sentence that ought to be passed. i sat on the sexual offenses bill under the last government where we looked at all of the issues about whether you should try and differentiate between different categories of rape. i seem to remember the honorable

gentleman sitting on the front bench was leading the debate for the government and we decided as a house of commons not to make that distinction. what matters is, do we get more cases to court? do we get more cases convicted? and do we get more cases sent down for decent sentences. that is the concern we should have. >> here, here. >> mr. speaker, the prime minister, when he leaves this chamber should go look at the comments of the justice secretary and let me just say to him very clearly, the justice secretary should not be in his post at the end of the day. now, now, that's the first thing he should do. the second thing he has to do is to drop this policy because this policy that they are defending is the idea that if you plead -- if you plead guilty to rape, you get your sentence halved. that could mean the rapist spent as little as 15 months in prison. that is not an acceptable policy and the prime minister should

drop it. >> i think what the leader of the opposition is doing is jumping to conclusions on this issue. the point is this, there is already a plea bargaining system in britain of one-third. and we are consulting on whether to extend a plea bargaining system to make it even more powerful. we have not yet decided which offenses it should apply to or how it should be brought in. this is a consultation. but the aim of plea bargaining, and it is worth remembering this -- because plea bargaining is used in systems including very tough criminal justice systems like america and the aim of plea bargaining is to make sure is that more people get prosecuted, more people get convicted and you actually save the victim from having to go through a court process and find out at the end that the culprit is going to be commit a guilty plea at the last minute. that is what the government is looking at and when we've listened to the consultation

we'll announce our conclusions but he needs to be patient until we do that. >> mr. speaker, we're getting used to this when there's a terrible policy, the prime minister hides behind the consultation. frankly that's not good enough. let me tell him -- let me tell him what people think about this policy. let me tell him about that. let me tell him what people think of this policy. the judges say the policy is wrong and the violence against women are saying it's the wrong policy and his own victim's commissioner says the policy is bonkers. now, i know he's in the middle of the consultation but i would like to hear his view on the policy which he should drop. >> the terrible fact that he refers to, the terrible fact is that only 6% of rape cases are actually prosecuted and end in a conviction. that is after 13 years of the party opposite running the criminal justice system so that's the improvement we want to see. let's make sure -- he wants to know my view, my view is to get

out, convict and prosecute and send these people down for a decent period of time. rape is such a serious offense and so he should wait for the outcome of the consultation rather than just jumping on the bandwagon. >> dave miliband. >> mr. speaker, it's about the way he runs his government because yesterday -- because yesterday the justice secretary was saying this proposal is likely to survive the consultation. the prisons minister was defending the policy. people are rightly angry about this policy. they think it's the wrong policy all i'm asking is something very simple. why doesn't the prime minister give us his view? >> i've given you my view and i'll give you my -- i want to see more people prosecuted and convicted for rape. and we're going to take steps to make sure that happens but i'll give you my view on something else. yes, which is this. i think there is merit in having a plea bargaining system which we have already, which should be

discretionary to try and make sure we convict more. what we had under the last government was a mandatory release of all prisoners irrespective of what -- yes, he sat in the cabinet that let 80,000 criminals out of prison. that wasn't a discretionary policy. it was a mandatory policy and it was a disgraceful policy. >> dave miliband. >> mr. speaker, mr. speaker. doesn't he realize what people are thinking of him on crime. before the election he made a whole series of promises and now he's breaking them one by one. he's out of touch -- he was out of touch on anonymity for rape victims and now he's out of touch on sentencing for rape victims. he's cutting the number of police, cutting 12,000 police officers. why doesn't he go back to the drawing board on crime and get rid of his justice secretary? >> well, in terms of broken promises, i remember the leader of the opposition saying at

those party conference about ken clark, i'm not going to say he's soft on crime. well, that pledge didn't last very long. one of these days, the party opposite is going to realize opposition is more than just jumping on a bandwagon, picking up an issue. it's about putting forward a serious alternative and making some serious points. >> order! sir allen hazelhurst. >> by contrast, mr. speaker, in harmony with the priority being given by the government to strengthen relations with the commonwealth, does my right honorable friend touch importance to the particular world of the commonwealth parliamentary association and will he mark that to find a way to mark that when it takes place in london in july? >> i'm very grateful for my honorable friend for raising this issue. i do think the commonwealth parliamentary association is an important part of the commonwealth and in celebrating that anniversary, i've had an

extremely attractive invitation to come along and say a few words and i'll certainly see if i can. >> tom? >> thank you, mr. speaker. why is the prime minister giving private and confidential nhs prescription records of 9 million british citizens to multinational private companies that will no doubt show no mercy with that information? >> i think what we're trying to do is clean up the mess of labour's nhs i.t. program that cost billions of pounds and is still struggling and we're desperately trying to get it under control and make sure we can save money to put in health care. >> simon kirby. >> thank you, mr. speaker. would the prime minister join me in sending a message of support to tony player's former speechwriter, peter hyman who is seeking to set up one of the coalitions excellent new preschools in east london? >> well, it's funny they don't

want to listen to tony player's speechwriter but they listened to such rapt attention for so many years so what he said. i welcome the free schools policy and i very much welcome what peter hyman is doing trying to establish a free school. i think this is an excellent policy. and yesterday we had a new policy from the party opposition and he said just paw he's opposed to the free school policy doesn't mean he's oonsz to every free school. i think we're back to the days of john prescott where you can't have me good schools because everyone might want to go to them. [laughter] >> we're back to old labour. >> mr. nigel dodds. >> mr. speaker, doesn't the visit of her majesty of the queen demonstrate not just her own personal courage to visit the severe dissident threats but it also demonstrates whatever some of us reservations might

have in one aspect of her visit. it demonstrates the extent of the improvement in relations between the irish republic and the northern kingdom and it also demonstrates a demonstration of the status and bold the cooperation who plague the terrorists who plague us in the northern island and persian gulf. >> i think this is a remarkable visit. i think it demonstrates that the relationship between britain and the republic of ireland is strong and probably has never been stronger and with a successful of devolution of proce process, i think the visits her majesty to heal the wounds in the past and look to a very pry future between the two countries are remarkable and certainly welcomed. >> mr. speaker, since it's the peop

people, couldn't the banks be denationalized and give them shares and will he look to the imaginative schemes put forward by my right honorable friend bristol west and i look back to the sun newspaper to this. >> i will certainly look at all the possible ways to put the banks that are nationalized back into the private sector. i personally strongly support the idea of widening share ownership so we'll look carefully at the scheme that he suggests but also he's together make sure we secure value for the money of the taxpayer as we look at the deep pits from the party opposite. >> there will be no increase in women state pension age before 2020 yet in the pensions bill that increase starts in 2018. why the u-turn?

>> yet again another reform that is important for making sure our pension system is affordable and sustainable, that the party opposite has completely given up. what we're doing is links pensions back to earnings and making sure our pension system is sustainable for the long term. that's what we're delivering, something never done by the party opposite. >> mr. james gray? >> mr. speaker, the people of england have most to lose against scottish independence abortup of the union as to the people of scotland. will then the prime minister give all of the votes of the referendum? >> my view is clear if the scottish parliament wants to hold a referendum i think that would be a retrograde step but if they would to hold that referendum we have to grant that referendum. i want to make sure we keep it

together. it would involve a vote for people in the scotland, not a vote for the rest of the united kingdom. >> i'm a very generous person. i compliment the government and not to the human trafficking directive. but the reason support by the scottish children's commissioner he could identify 200 children trafficked into scotland at 1,000 children into the national u.k. most bodies recommend that the u.k. government appoint a guardianship for children. how can they give the house an assurance that the u.k. is actually prepared for the responsibility that comes up to -- >> i will look carefully what the honorable gentleman says 'cause i know he has a very deep concern about this trafficking issue, as many members in our house do. and, frankly, the fact that children and young adults are

trafficked for sex and other purposes in our world is completely disgraceful and we have to stamp it out. as he said we have signed up with the directive and we were complying with the terms of this directive and we have to make sure we do everything we can to stamp out this repulsive practice. >> dr. julian lewis. [inaudible] >> although i have discussions on many issues with the leader of the opposition, the nuclear deterrent has not recently been one of them that is partly because the government's policy is absolutely clear. we are committed to retaining an independent nuclear deterrent based on trident. my right honorable friend the defense secretary will make a statement to parliament today to proceed with initial gate. >> dr. julian lewis. >> i'm grateful for the prime minister for repeating our commitment to the future of trident, its renewable and the deterrents remaining in place. would he give his plea of guilty to those honorable members, both

in the conservative party and on the labour benches who think like him that the nuclear deterrent should be above party politics that we should form an alliance on this important issue just as we did on the alternative vote so successfully? >> i do agree with my honorable friend that it would be better if we could elevate this issue over party politics and indeed when we voted to go ahead with trident, it was on the basis of a labour motion that was supported by most labour mp's and supported by all, i believe, conservative mp's but i have to say with the honorable gentleman i have a feeling he will never be satisfied even if i placed a trident sub-marine ahis constitue -- in his constituency and gave him the key, something that i'm not willing to do.

[laughter] >> why continue to waste billions on a national vir illity symbol that has not played any part in the military operations we have taken part of and likely to pay any part in the future. doesn't it gives justification and encouragement to other countries to acquire their own nuclear weapons. >> i don't accept either part of his argument, with the signature of the nonproliferation agreement and we are strong supporters with it but second, our nuclear deterrent is just that. it is deterrent. it is the ultimate in your opinion against blackmail and attack by other countries and that is why i believe it is right to maintain it and indeed replace it. >> mr. james clapperson. >> does my right honorable friend agree that there is no case for giving the e.u. power over taxation, at least of all in present circumstances? committee assure me that the government will simply say no to the proposed e.u. directive for a corporate common tax base?

>> i can certainly reassure my right honorable friend. the point those in the e.u. who want to see further, they are normally making one of two arguments. either they want to raise more money to the e.u. which i don't agree with or secondly they're trying to reduce tax competition within the e.u. i think it's important we keep our competitive tax rates and don't give them further our tax base. >> thank you, mr. speaker. the ministerial court is extensive and it's in the rules governing ministers but what is his policies and his government's policy on those ministers that break the ministerial code. >> what was the ministerial code is an extremely serious offense and i know he has asked questions before about my right honorable friend for epson. let me be clear that there was no decision in making process -- that no part of the

decision-making process to award work program contracts and i wanted to make that point clear to him as he asked me the question. >> oliver coalville. >> thank you, mr. speaker. may i echo the attribute that my right honorable friend made to nicompel mead, the young royal marine who is serving with three commander brigade which is in my constituency. given the recent inflation figures and the loose monetary conditions which contributed to the cause of the credit crunch, will my right honorable friend lead a investigate reviewing the target -- >> prime minister? >> the point i'd make to my honorable friend is this. i think one of the fundamental causes of the problems in the credit crunch was the poor regulation of our banking system, the poor regulation of credit and we've actually taken steps to put that right by putting the bank of england back at the pinnacle of that system

after the failure of the system put in place by the party opposite. in terms of inflation i strongly support monetary policy being independent established by the bank of england. i don't want to go back to the bad old days of the treasury setting interest rates. i think it's better to have it vested in the monetary policy. >> thank you, mr. speaker. a number of my constituents with very serious health conditions are being declared fit for work by the department of work and pensions work capability assessment. can the prime minister give me a guarantee that the assessment will be fit for purpose by the time from the big move to incapacity to esa and especially in light of cuts to dwp? >> well, of course, we want to get these tests right but i believe what the tests are showing are that it's been wrong to leave so many people on benefits for so long without proper assessment. now, of course you can always improve the processes and we'll make sure we do that as we go along but i think it's absolutely right to go through people on all benefits and ask if they can work?

what help do they need to help to work? and if they are offered work that they don't take, frankly, they shouldn't go on getting benefits. >> sir peter tapsel. >> here, here. >> now there is to be a full investigation into the abduction or murder of madeleine mccann. shouldn't be there a serious investigation of the murder of dr. kelly. >> well, my honorable friend is raise towing issues. first on the issue of madeleine mccann. what i think i think it's welcome that the metropolitan police have decided to review the case and review the paperwork. on the issue of dr. david kelly, i thought the results of the inquest that were carried out and the report into it were fairly clear and i don't think it's necessary to take that case forward. >> dennis skinner?

>> is the prime minister aware that the most revealing statistic in recent days has been the fact that in recession-hit britain, the billionaires have gone up by 20, an increase of 37% in the first year of this tory rule whilst in the real world, inflation is going to through the roof. thousands of blind people are having to march in the streets in london to hang on to their disability insurance. what a savage indictment on this lousy rotten tories dropped off by -- >> here, here. >> i think the most i can -- i can see he enjoyed that. >> the prime minister's reply. the prime minister.

>> i think the most revealing statistic today is the fact that the unemployment figures show that employment in our country is up by 118,000. unemployment is down by 36,000 and youth unemployment fell by 30,000. those are the statistics of what's really happening in the real world rather than in dinosaur land that he still inherits. >> mr. speaker, hard-working families want a cap on benefits but the party opposite is voting against such a cap. would the prime minister help us in this way? who's living in the real world and who's representing real families, us or them? >> the honorable lady is entirely right. what we are proposing is a cap on benefits that a family can receive of 26,000 pounds. you'd to have earn something

like 40,000 pounds to get the level of benefit. and, frankly, they'll be people watching this thinking i'm earning 15, 16, 17,000 pounds. why am i paying my taxes to go to families that are getting more than 26,000 pounds in benefits? so to answer her question, we're the ones who are in touch with what people and the party opposite seems to have gone to sleep. >> julie elliott. >> mr. speaker, what could the prime minister say to the people in the largest city in the northeast in my constituents on the news that the torch is not stopping in the city? >> well, i have to say i wasn't aware of that and perhaps i can look into the root the olympic torch is going and if i'm able to divert it, i will do my best. >> thank you, mr. speaker. an increasing number of judgments coming out of the european court of human rights and the european court of justice are deeply unpopular in our country.

>> here, here. >> and intrudes on what should be the reserves of the member states. can the prime minister assure my constituents that he will use every ounce of his considerable personal authority to support efforts, to push back on these overbearing institutions? >> i agree with the honorable lady. in terms of the echr, we are leading the process of trying to reform that court so it pays more attention to the decisions of national parliaments and crucially national courts. in terms of the ecj, one of the things we must do is stop the transfer of further powers from westminster to brussels and that's why we're putting in place the referendum lock. >> does the prime minister think that power and influence of this house of commons will be diminished or increased by the reforms to the house of lourdes announced yesterday? >> i think parliament will be increased as a whole in terms of its authority and its respect.

i think it is right to insert into the house of lourdes some elected peers so that actually we recognize that in the modern world it's right to have two chambers, both of which are predominantly elected. that's the policy of the government. what i would say is it's quite clear to me that there are massive divisions on all sides about this policy but it's an opportunity for the house of commons to try and find a pass through this so we achieve what was in every manifesto to the house of lourdes. >> thank you, mr. speaker. an independent investigation is due to report back regarding allegations that runningboro control diverted 106 monies to plug gaps in the general budget and also to fund unrelated projects. can the prime minister offer any advice on how residents will be able to make use of the localism bill to make sure that section 106 money is spent correctly?

>> well, i would make two points to my right honorable friend. first of all, the localism bill allows them to divert section 106 money because of the councils that go ahead with building homes will get more money they don't have to feel they have to go for the one big huge development that draws in the section 106 money. it may be that a different pattern of development, more in tune with what local people want will actually deliver some of the benefits the local people want to see. >> can i return the prime minister to his remarks earlier about rape, while we all support moods to make the justice system easier for women, many victims and nonvictims alike find his proposals to reduce sentences by up to 50% abhorrent. and the only he can take is take this out of any presentation now. >> what the honorable lady says is not what we're