opening up a new building. if you are from silver spring, our museum is going to be opening up in a new facility in silver spring, maryland this fall. fall. we're currently located at walter reed medical center. and the medical center is going to be closing through -- now through september. and so in that time period, we're actually going to pack up and move all of our collections to a new location in silver spring. if you're familiar with the forest glenn area, if you're familiar with the seminary, we'll be right across the street from that so you'll be able to visit us there this fall so we're looking forward to it but in the meantime, we're doing some things in the community to make sure that our audiences and even new folks, our new neighbors will get to know us and they'll become familiar with us and they'll want to participate in programs at the museum itself. so we hope that this science cafe will be something that you enjoy coming back to when the

topic is of interest to you. we'll do this either on a monthly basis or a bimonthly basis so if you are interested in this, if this is something that appeals to you, do sign our grid at the back of the room. there's a little clipboard and you can give us your email >> please do sell and if you would like the book tonight we may have a couple extra if she would sign the books. i would like to introduce you to our speaker. this is holly tuckerhe majoring in french and political science at indiana university than the pta university of wisconsin madison. currently professor of french and medicine at vanderbilt and teaches courses under early medicine and a dissident literature and alsoic early french

literature and culture. i was introduced to her by subscribing to her blog and i have been a fan for quite awhile i would encourage you to go it but it is an a interesting blog and they call it a community for curious minds that of history with odd stories and it started out as an s areash where she and her students could communique but now it hasmm grown and with the history of the book to specs i would encourage you to take a look. iowa's o one i saw she was releasing her own book and i said we have got to have her for the medical museum. t m is our very firs speaker for the cafe.this this was a type of very

casual conversation.ons, if you have questionsou h peat -- feel free to t interact i hope to makeeres comments. her mock is interesting because it is history of medicine brings out current topics and what we are all concerned about. are you ready? our projector is right over here. [applause] >> i can tell you as i left arlington about two 1/2 hours ago. [laughter] i checked on my pad and i

accidently hit my interactions of i walked on the google maps it would take me 12at hours so as i sat in the parking lot thank you for being so kind and patient as i was sitting on the interstate freaking out just a little bit. as we get set up, i want to talk to you a that a bit about the origins of this book because it has been a fascinating experience for me. i started five years ago and it started because i was planning for a class. i teach evander billion diversity were i have the opportunity to teach a variety of glasses and my favorite is on the history of medicine from aristotle through the indictment. one of the lectures i needed to prepare was on the early discovery of bloodanepid

circulation in 1628.ing i did what any good professor does cramming for lecturer and i was looking for some interesting studies and i stumbled on our reference to a blood transfusion. that is not something i had heard about. that was incredibly odd butk then i began to look aroundwe i found they were transfusing animals to animals in the 16 sixties and then they moved to humans and using animals as the donor's to the humans. i started to look at that but then uncover the fact there really frightened a lot of people the idea of blood transfusion hundreds of years before the discovery of blood types 1900. long before the discovery of guinness the show or an aseptic they were w

transfusingit humans with animal blood. it was even more odd, just ignore that on the screen. [laughter] but i realize plaid -- blood transfusion started quickly and b ended just as quickly after the reserve failed to transfusion they were called up on murder charges and there was a court case and after that it was determined blood transfusion would be outlawed in france and later in france and england and italy which were the hot spots. that is where i began. as hot as it seems one thing that was interesting to me,

and that's okay.s i can do this without the illustrations. j what is interesting tove me, do we have any physicians? can you imagine doing modern medicis without the benefits of blood transfusion?n there is bloodless surgery and ao way to use the patient's own blood during emergencyt surgery and trauma surgery of course. when i talk to health care professionals it is hard to imagine modern medicine without the benefits of blood transfusion. interestingly enough, the whole idea of blood

transfusion in 17th century it is somethingth that was radical because they spent centuries or millenniag al imagining all the different ways they could take blood out of the body. that is where you think if you think of early medicis and you think of ama leech and lancets and blood bowles why is that? why is the first thing we imagine early medicis and is bloodletting? it comes down to a simple but permeating notion power works with the hippocrates but thees body was thought to be based on the balance of humors and those are essentially the fluids in the body they were blood, phlegm, a black bio and jell-o pile.

when the body was imbalance of fourun fluids were in a happy state of equilibrium when you're not healthy amend the fluids were out of whack and something needed to be adjusted for you could just sat through nutrition or the fastest way essentially the you could adjust the house would be to remove the offending humor.t that was the first case when 17t i get sick reached for example, ibuprofen if i have a headache but the first thing you would do if you were sick in the 17th century is you would reach for the barber surgeon the same person to give the of shea voidedwo give you the bloodletting or major surgery as well.

another thing is blood wasas produced her for the humor san thought it was a producer activating perpetuity.com vujacic, ab concocted in the liver and moved up to thhee heart thatt operated like a furnace. that is how the body got energy, heat, they did not know the relationship of breathing and air andt oxygenated blood. you're soaking the fires and burbling now you're pulling off of the fumes. we were pulling blood out but also realizing it was produced in the digestive system. something very important happened in the 16 20s which was thesg discovery of blood

circulate -- circulation where i start with william harvey. he started to wonder not just about thee basis of the way to understand the body but also is this possible but all of the body isced produced by the digestive system? that got people thinking and doing experiments with cadavers and a live animal bodies. he started to test theo notion. first of all, i tried try to figure out what the baines do? we don't know about wast circulating, they thought they either reinforced the veins or kept all of the heber's and -- curators from falling into the feet. he wondered what the valves or four. then he performed sections on small animals like

rabbits but the heart wass beating so fast he could not ketchup but then he moved toward likes cold blooded animals like snakes he was watching is starting to get close to the idea that then did a section on the human and the human heart and the amount of the blood and one of the cavities determined there was 2 ounces of bloodmb counted the number ofhum heartbeats over 30 minutess then he did simple multiplication and found out the body through blood making and the heart would have to blow this of this would have to be obscene amount of blood is something like 540 palace of blood something as short as half

an hour.ha he said there is no way this could be possible to imagine so he speculative proposed the notion of blood pr circulation. from their that set off a whole flurryt of it experiments in england byb christopher wren, the greatest architect he actually started his career they called natural philosophers doctors at the time that he, began to reject channels with all different types of fluids.f, y crazy fluid like opium and the year and whine and milk because the idea was if he is wrong and blood doesn't circulate 50 bypass the digestive system and put into the veins it would go right to the heart to be burned off there was no t immediate a factor lasting

effect but he was seeing his dogs drunk and stoned and a dead. allowed the early natural philosophers andn en england to imagine not just f in fusion but now to startus saying what would happen if we would put other things like blood? sixteen '60s the ideast started to move forward and particularly they started to wonder what if we took theof blood of one dog into another dog? ontoe member of the royal society began his first experiment and the dog survived and getting close to the whole idea maybe we can imagine transfusions in n humans something happened in

between sell as excited as the english were about and doing thesed transfusions they had a lot of challenges to move a forward across the channel in france different things wereff happening building by the palaces like for tsai but they wereemel extremely conservative and in fact, the frencha catholics think the whole idea ofth circulation isis disgusting to the point* that everything thatan is to be known about thes body is already known. they are hearing that english are doing experiments, they'd want to do them that england and france are in the thicrakf pretty much a space -- spaceic w race the whole idea oftion

nation building isce, developing for prominence you have any victors on thealso battlefield but also scions.nc so the french academy of science start to do these experiments hopefully to determine the english were wrong and they did not work. i had to figure out how did the english has such great success and the french did not? how could they do this with animals? ibl we have -- they have pled types more than humans and don't know anything about anesthesia how is it they could survive? there were three variables part of the first is how fast the blood goes in and how muchst and third if there is previous exposure..

very likely not a lot of b blood got into the animals to begin with because they were using rudimentary systems for a transfusion. the first among animals was done with goose quills to jam the answer to quell the was wrapped around other quells with twine and connect that way. been no the blood did not move very fast and many times clots in whed n it went through the goose quills. why did the french experiment failed? it turns out after i spend time working in the archives and looking at the manuscript minutes of the secret experiments is that they were reusing the dogs and many experiments the dogs have had m the third

period goal of previous exposure.he they determined the english were liars and they are happy about that.sa [laughter] but at the same time and this is thehe focus of my work n and of my book, a fascinating character trained in the south of france at a competing school in the 17th century to thea illustrious paris faculty of medicine at university of paris and the school is highly traditional if you want to practice in paris you have to get your degree of the faculty of medicine and before a noble class well bred and lots of connections the seven frenchmen of low birth his elo was our decisioni

trained at the rival school but that's not stop himthom w wanting to go up to paris to make a name for himself.t what is the easiest way to make a name for yourself?en you know, to get yourntio attention they do you do not them to do he decided he wanted to enrage the paris seat and put his name on the map by performing transfusion experiments. he begins those with dogs on the left bank of paris and if you haven visited parisi imagine that i have stood thereus many times imagining where these transfusions are taking place. if you have notre dame tea or back and looking at the fountain and you can see the banks and the very large buildings john baptiste is one ofn those buildings very nearby.

he does these experiments in his home but we have no idea what his wife thinks. [laughter] but then he moved them public and began to do them on the banks of the cn. he make a big announcement on sunday i will transfuse a mangy dog with a healthy dog you can imagine in the french 82 were against circulation and transfusion, they were enraged. whatr is very interesting is sean baptiste with his great success decides he will make a name for himself as he tries to scoop the english affair this close to performing their own human transfusion. so john baptiste says i will be them and performs his

first transfusion experiments 1667 on a young feverish boy.y. we don't know how he got the patient and very likely pay the parents and transfuse the young boy with cat's blood and he survived. that is a major criteria foress. success. the second transfusion is a butcher but from what i can tell that to provided this sheet for the young boy is very colorful he says you will let that go to waste? it would be a great dinner the second transfusion is a butcher who says yes. he is not sick but just offers himself up for pay and transfused with sheep's blood and survivesr.ive

my favorite story is after the transfusion, the transfusion is walking down the streets of d paris and looks thin and sees a butcher and is furious he ise bu jovial and drunk because he has used all of his earnings to buy beer.al then suddenly he is surrounded by other workers who say do it to me. transfuse me so he says pretty good. i will do it to somebody else. this is where it gets interesting.r john baptiste reaches for the most bearish -- famous man in paris, a man who was well known in the most in the part of town for riding around, mentally ill, naked an d screaming and setting on fire with the mostati

illustrious teammate but het is also a beloved because he was a ballet to a very, very influential lady in the area. he was once a laughing stock and 11 and feared at the same time. he believes if he canly h transfuse him successfully he will seal his name.me it cost a lot of money to dowe research and has a wealthy benefactor, they pluck him off of the streets of paris and tie him to a chair and transfuse him with cat's blood for the first time you really see clear evidence of a reaction. he starts to scream his arm is turning red in getting hockey stars to comment and his head is spinning. they decide to stop right away.tno sf

they shuffle him off into af servant quarters and he iss colmar and happier and seems cured actually of the madness. of the second transfusion goes equally well with catsb blood in fact, the man's wife comes and finds her com husband and is bewildered and says what did you do too my husband?d in in the fall of the moon he would be beating me now telling me he a loves me and he is so-called. it was just very likely he was very sick and did not have energy. they go off into their home and into the village then gets a knock on the door saying he is at it again and transfuseag him now so he goes

out and then not long after he is dead. he is accused of murder for it looks like he will betual held on murder charges. but what is very interesting is there is a court case. he says i did not do it. the widow is suggesting there is something ms. and there was. in the court case a interviewed thee wi widow, nabors, just about anybody you could thinkat y about. it was determined a murder had happened. it was not from the animals' blood but he was poisoned by arsenic. and on top of it, in the court records it said three unnamed physicians were responsible.

then the rest of the court case said there will be no further transfusions without the express approval of the paris faculty of medicine. that is not a point* to happen because they were against it to begin with. as i started to look through this a realize most of theth historical approach to the case was that good as it did not continue it wasit w dangerous and horrible but isome know if lurking from the history of medicine caretaking bladder stones cuttings' in so deep you could reach your entire hand into somebody's body or worse doing penile extractions with the bladder stones. no anesthesia or antiseptics. also doing more and more caesarean sections as well those were done much more frequently than the blood

transfusions.g how in the world could that be the only answer the blood transfusion started and stopped? thank goodness it did.d who were the three guys, the unnamed physicians who were involved with the arsenic poisoning? they were hard to find. let me tell you.. i could not find them atst first but why would somebody be against bloodm transfusion? it turns out as he looked at the transfusion trials there is a a great fear that by moving animal blood into human brains is somehow you would alter what it meant to be human. would they start to bark? would dogs start to reason? second be fascinating for 18th century people because they have beencece

traveling and discovery lands unknowns and people i know i can only imagine with the first european thought about seeing a giraffe for the first time they comeavel back with stories of sea monsters brest.mi evenng entire villages of people who look like dogs of. fascinating stories there are fascinating and frightening now they had the ability to engineer monsters. and through some veryd di conservative thinkers that was too frightening and it needed to be stopped. here is the question why didn't they use human blood? it makes sense to reach for animals.ns the first is that animals are pure.

i have never seen by dag smoke.g he barks very loud they don't drink or smoke forswear. also earlier medicall practices use and all flesh and fluid on a regular basis.d if you're 16 or feeling overly cold so you would eat a raw egg. maybe evenou sprinkel some stag testicles. sorry. but these are common recipes to enhance one's health. it was traditional to use attrition with animal flesh and the wood to offset the offending years in the number third is rene descartes of the great french philosopher and that we associate i think

therefore i am had a radical way to understand the body through my body dualism. rene descartes speculatedth animals and humans were identical in the fact they were machines. we are in the thick of the scientific revolution ande of the science of hydraulics is starting and creatingng barometers not everything is is up for grabs and it is highly mechanical. rene descartes thinksu animals and humans are identical and the only difference is humans can speak, reason, and have a soul. and he speculates that theit i sole is not in the body. that makes a lot of sense also from the 1630's, my body dualism argument beginsrd there and then lead to then

infusion experiments 1657 in the thick of transfusion experiments 16 sixties. if rene descartes is right taking in all blood and moving to the human body is by changing the oil in your car. no big deal but what if he is wrong? what if as have long been speculated andi discussed and written down biblically what if the soul is in the blood itself? that was a veryi frightening idea to conservative physicians so much sutherby resort to rein the transfusion is patient and setting him up on these charges. it worked. it was banned and would be started up for another 150 years.

in research, i can figureso out why somebody would do this. and i researched it it is a rough life. i had to go to paris and rome and london even an argument to go to dublin because there is af collection of a hugh cannot of protestant french doctorecia your doctor and other specialized library per every time ia thought i was getting closer and closer to the men who tried to murder the transfusion patient for our work done in three years and said there is no way. every time i thought i had the person i could not pin it on them but yet they are dead but there is a responsibility that you have i am accusing long dead people of murder but that is

still a huge accusation. i almost hearted to give up.hst i have a motive, i thought people involved but i could not find out for sure who did it. i decided to give up on the project. there goes many years of myy life. i had great french food while i was doing it. i was in my study in casht flow in getting ready to put away my notes i was inventory my notes are was meticulous research i wouldhe d never it and put into thet carding getting ready to puts the project away.an anybody who has done archival research, you know, that the last few days of being the our khyber is very because there is so much things you want to look at the you know, you cannot get anywhere else but you do

you only have a couple more days so you spend a fortune in reproduction cost. people are nodding.oplhe it can take forever to get them. six or eight weeks or two months. i saw a stack of the original envelope from the french library. what is this? yes. are remember that. i i e remember coming across aa letter from a lawyer ini parliament which is the equ french equivalent of the supreme court pretty much saying i should not be writing this letter but fed. transfusion is john baptiste had every reason to fear for his life. person ax and person why should be ashamed of what they did to try to stop transfusion. i believe does believe that

transfusion should be allowed to continue.lo i looked at it and said what? spent another couple of months going back again to france polling as many as i t could about these people'sp name i had seen before and looking at the letters and treatises. it turns out they were sitting out in the open.ce i once i have their name. vigilantes' are rarely shy. of the names are not known to history but the documents were sitting there is essentially tipping off the world they had done it and proudly so. when i meet authors i am interested behind-the-scenes after our is also a sure i have booked under every stone and i feel confident i was able to find them, i

thought this is more than i could handle i was going to go to th e ymca to work our and call my husband.t he picks up the phone and iy an start to cry and said i found them. , i found them. what? i found the killers. >> what do talking about? >> w the chance using tellers and he laughed and said you just saw the 350 year-old colt case. that is what i did. the whole project was they a wild ride and fascinating. and as you suggest there wasu some a different resonance so to conclude to put the past in the contemporary context to understand why it is so important and how it can help guide us as a move utio our own mauve -- moment

the scientific revolution i knew in 2006 that i wanted to write the book inouye that would be compelling notdemi only to the academic audience but to bid general reader interested in looking at the way history matters. 2006 george to be bush to visit of the unionu address in which he surprise people saying you have to call for prohibition of the human animal hybrids. out of the blue. i thought that was weird. and there was the rhetoricc that sounded like the rhetorice of my 17th century guys. i spent time watching the cultural sphere. realized many of the responses i was hearing, of course, bush was talking about cloning, and acas human

embryo stem cell research all of those issues and a we fear reduce something to the human species. i heard in the culturalal sphere that same type of response. this is horrible and maybe -- must be stopped buy my science friend saying we have been doing interspecies research for a very long time. at different gradations whether grafting of big heart valves, knock out my ase if they have humanses diseases, all of these experiments what is the big deal? then the fun part was looking at the people on the internet doing these wacky things of that talking cats

and pigs under saying human babies and those types ofgs things that those illustrations were identicale to the same interspecies monsters we saw in the 17th century so with this r book a wanted to ask threeee i important questions.as the past and where we are now part of a first should society limit our science? because that relationship isee son precarious. of the second question is if so at whats cost? i cannot happen to think would transfusion actually have continued and would we have better earlier could we determine blood types much earlier half of the response not stop been that tracks?

because the experiment was very simple taking a little bit oftom blood coagulate with others and he could do some grass and determined the first initial blood types. it was not a hard experiment and did not need a lot of tools.av says history cannot answer those questions but whatho lives have been saved? i don't know. lives lost? probably. the third question, what should the relationship ofput society be? should they put limits and if we are looking 350 years later how initial culture of responses were to blood transfusion, something that is complicated but in most circles on problematic, how

will people 150 years be0 looking at us as we try to come to terms with our stance like human embryog logical stems cell research ands cloning? they seem to be differentent technologies but in the end, they are not all thatar different in the philosophical ground. each one gets up the question what does it mean to be human? and in the case of embryo much a ghost and some research when does the idea began of humanness? all those questions when we look at the history of medicine and the way society comes to terms with a different moments, those are lasting questions that will

continue long after us. i would love to hear your laestions. [applause] >> when people say -- arear they talkinge about yellow by a? is that good humor of the spleen. >> they were not always associated specifically with the organs. / m in fact, blood itself contained all of the humors and i will bypass the question i reluctant to do that unless i have a good entomology dick shura i am not sure how to answer that. i will look it up and i will tell you.

>> it goes back. >> it has to be related because melancholy which ish an early term for depression is associated with having too much black bile. is somebody -- of somebodyl is cholera you are leaning one over the others who very certainly that expansion related but i want to take a little bit more to see when it was first used. >>en ink pen -- abraham lincoln referred to the hypo as hypochondriacs and relating to the liver and excess of black bile and melancholy is that the origin? >> and his time of course, the whole idea of humours continues into the 19th century and george washington was but very sossibly historians say wa

it reallyy his the infection of the epiglottis or just blood let like crazy?a bl another interesting thing as they open the book with this after washington died, there is speculation the day after that perhaps he could be revived with the animal blood. the family said. no.st interesting but let him rest in peace they would try to warm him up to get the blood moving been transfused with animals' blood.d this is not something that is just in the 17th century and the advent of blood circulation doesn't mean the theory is gone by any means. bloodletting will continue on and as you are suggesting g whole range of ways of describing human character.-

>> i will limit myself 21 more question.>> the what is your take on the origin of mentioning cesarean section of the. term? is it julius caesar was born that way that his mother's belly and uterus were cut open and extracted that way? or is there another? i have heard that is controversial. >> it is absolutely. >> what are your thoughts? >> it was thought since antiquity that is the way he was born. we don't know that for sure does that mean caesarean sections were consistently performed from that time forward? noc.

the first the very early 17th century or claimed to have been performed but one doctor wrote to hold treatise how wonderful he was a performing serious sections 21-degree the patient had the operation five times and showed the world her scars but early 17th century the discussion began and by the mid 17th century not frequently renown not as a regular procedure again but controversial as it is now but by the 18th century on a semi regular basis parker it is amazing going from caesar to the 17th century and really don't have documented evidence it was performed at all with any

consistency. >> what about the moment period with france? just like louis the 14th w wanted to be the next cesar? >> since we have the romantically reference now part and parcel absolutely to look at the literaturessic we're deep in the neo-classical period which their recuperating taxed from senate and a juror pretties and if you look atok a the architecture at the time, neoclassical model wer dominate. to what degree does that have anything to do with caesarean section? but it gives us an idea why the french were so beholden to models of antiquity

because they actually permeatedthem much not so much in england such as pushing backth although they come back out of the religiousig wars there is a tradition pushing against those who would pushing against tradition. that is an interesting question actually of france and the relationship between the body and culture. >> how do they look at the blood being of seoul and with the bloodletting what you do if it contained the sole? >> that is a good question. i don't know how to answer

that. [laughter] i do not have to answer that. i will have to think of that . >> i see a little hand back there. >> what was it like to find fi the killers? >> it was exciting and very scary.itcaus as i mentioned was accusing people of one of the worst things that you can do. how old are you? >> seven. >> my daughter was seven started and now she is about 10 and a half. and she was very interested the onlyte thing is she would go into my study at home i would have the dissection manuals because they did gross things and put leeches on people and scold drilling she would walk in and say i

am so glad you are a writer and i am so proud of you. would you feel the same way if youarb saw their gross drawings? [laughter] >> maybe. >> have you come across any hemophilia with a transfusion to replace four somebody believes and cannot stop?h i feel that kind of has ah role in history of medicine and also in general. did you come across cases? >> interestingly the early transfusions that does notresu seem to be the case. it was more of pure an experiment as in the case of the butcher or the mentally ill man who it was thought

mental illness was resulted of over the heated blood it would get too hot vapors rise to the brain and trouble the minds of a thought if theyseh hadid moreanm appear cooling and will bled into the mentally ill people, there was another transfusion in england about the sameut time as the french manner that they could calm them down. it was never the ada that they could replace bloodps they thought perhaps you could feed intervene as the people who could not eat but taking a back the blood transfusion in the 19th century especially for that and in 1818 the hospital in london was one doctors a patient's bleeding now and hemorrhaging after childbirth and wondered is it possible to do transfusion to replace a new

mother's blood? he did a few experiments to staff member or husband's blood andsbaf they were not highly successful but that was very interesting after that people started to wonder could we do transfusion?e over the next 80 or 90 yearsexpe it is fascinating the different experiments and say that it regulatesht quickly so taking things that you make cakes with andbe beat it and would put all differentgr types of chemicals into the blood to see they could gete it from coagulating. so fast lowered to the 1900's with the discovery of blood types by 1914 they discover sodium citrate which keeps the blood from

coagulating and they could start delivering blood remotely because havedo to do patients wouldd h have to be hooked up ton patients of any type of the la habra device now are some positions were actually stitching veins and arteriesd together to do the transfusion from donor to recipient. 1914 upham rates in the middle of the world war that allows spain to collect blood.able they know about blood types to put in a glass flask ton deliver to the battlefield and from there, there is a thought of creating the first blood bank from leningrad than cook county

hospital in chicago. interestingly my thought is the whole idea of trying to stop emerging is io thinke what starts the shift to thee modern success story of blood transfusion. >> one of the reasons when we look back at historical practices, we can see they were resistant to see a paradigm shift. are we really any different? what danes did you see in your research that we don't knowe the question but it seems, did they know that they did not know or did they think that they knew? >> i really like that

question a lot and it is hard to articulate. it is tempting to want to read a forward narrative to iay how much they didn't know we have the answer or lookout close they were if only they knew but we found the answer. i would say what is important in every period is just as they were trying to master the secrets of nature and the body they recognize the power that was but that did not keepd them from going forward. we have to be humbled.rd how will history judge us? we have to be humble to think about there is so much more of that we don't know than we do. am i touching on that question? it is hard to articulate. >> great stock.

i love how your pitchers did not work because you tell such a provocative story. that was great even though the classic images are a joy to see. iey love the way that it worked out.r but my question and debts at the popularization of science where science anddici medicine and you touched on it. i wonder about the idea ofof the public exhibition of transfusion or other things done some of a with displays of botany or electricity and things of that opening of the window to the general public, or is it on going in the public? something like that?

can you think of that historic may or maybe even today?w we and how the consume zests and come to terms with a scientific or medical developments. >> precisely one of the things i am interested in.h 17th century and have friends in regard to the spectator aspect, . >> theater art exhibition is. >> thosecal theaters wheret located in the medical school with the cadaver in the center and it was more of a closed space but it is true when we move into the scientific resolution and definitely in to the indictment, the educated elite want very much to

begin tobe participate inin science.s the king's garden, theyuld would have regular dissections that women of a higher class's that veryre educated elite women would meet they would do field trips to look what was going onat with the dissection. there was a rage in the 16 eighties and nineties ofse looking at microscopes because that is the big 17th century invention also win a of the upper class is getting preparations and looking under the microscope. some of these tools are very expensive that is the extraordinary amount of money but science become something the educated elite

want to be a part of and that is when you move to thescei enlightenment thatn everybody should have the opportunity to learn about the bodies working in the universethe working. i am not sure where that takes us but anybody who has seen by the world if you look at the internet lookingy at surgery on youtube because you have bodies and questions we want science toi be accessible i am not sure if i answered your question but it does start in the early time period each period looks differenttle looking at the different types of consequences in france the idea of access to knowledge and information to a certain degree has real consequences for the french revolution. but over twe