chinese are financing a good part of our budget, as well as our countries. what situation as you perceive as a potential ambassador to china could we play in being helpful in this situation? because this could be a great consequence to us, to europe, to the world if for some reason the chinese do have an inflationary bubble and a recession that changes markedly the buying and selling in an international way. >> well, i think that clearly there are -- we need to help open up the counties market to some of our services. whether it's in insurance, whether it's in pensions, and other areas of the financial services market. we also need to help lend our

expertise to china. i believe the key is the rebalancing in which they are not dependent on experts and focusing more on consumption. if they have a recession that would have an impact on that type of domestic consumption. it's something we're going to have to watch very, very carefully. we're going to have to encourage more exchanges and deliberations between our top financial services sector, as well as our financial institutions and our government officials, secretary geithner has a whole host of collaborations and exchanges with his counterparts in china. let me just also add that 70% of treasuries are actually held by domestic companies. 70% of our treasuries are held by domestic entities. of the 30% remaining held by other entities, china has about 1/3 of that. china's hold on, or ownership of

our security really is only 8% of our total debt. and in no way does china's position in any way influence u.s. foreign policy. >> thank you very much. mr. webb. >> thank you, mr. chairman. secretary i'd like to congratulation you on your nomination and i know how great of a moment this must be. not only for you and your family. we wish you the best in this assignment. i want you to know that i appreciate your having come by my office for the extensive discussion that we were able to have. i have three questions that i'd like to get your thoughts on today. the first is i held a hearing in my capacity as the chair of the east asia subcommittee on this committee, regarding the

consistency and lack thereof in our characterization of governmental systems, rather than human rights per se. we talk about human rights. human rights is something of a morphis term. it's important. but you could characterize even in a country like the united states with a free and open governmental system, someone could allege a first amendment violation is a human rights amendment, or an eighth amendment is a violation of someone's human rights. when you get to countries such as china, what we really have is a fundamental difference in governmental systems that rarely gets discussed when we are in hearings like this. they don't have democratic systems. they don't have elections as we understand them.

the freedom house evaluations of freedom of the press rate china among the 40 countries in the asia pacific as at the bottom other than burma and north korea in terms of basic freedoms of the press. we are on the one hand in an environment where we do want to push our economic forward. we do want to ensure that there aren't misunderstanding in terms of security issues, and we want to work toward a time when those can be resolved for the stability of the region. but we are still talking about two completely different systems of government. what are your thoughts about the challenges of that and what the future holds? >> well, obviously, there are major differences between our histories as countries, our cultures, our values, certainly

our governmental systems. as you note, there's been much criticism of human rights issues and freedom of the press issues in china. notwithstanding that, i believe there's a great appetite and a hunger by the chinese people for information as to what's happening all around the world. and the chinese people are able to obtain much of that information. what we must do as a country is to engage with the chinese people directly and to convey the values that america stands for and our views or various issues. and while much of the press is controlled by china, there's also a growing movement for greater freedom among the press. i think that it's incumbent upon the ambassador and other american government officials who operate in china, whether it's from the embassy or visiting members of the congress to take advantage of those different mechanisms of talk shows, radio shows, meeting with

students, using the internet, to communicate and to express the values for which we stand. >> thank you. my second question relates to the concern that i and many people have regarding the role that the chinese government should be playing in assisting in the resolution of challenges that are -- a role that is more in a level of emerging power around the world. you mention some cooperation in the areas of iran, burma, north korea in your opening remarks. there are other issues whether i think we could encourage the chinese to become more visible and proactive in the international environment as

rereach towards solutions. i've held two hearings on sovereignty issues, different kinds of sovereignty issues, both of which, i believe, we really could benefit from a more overt participation from the chinese. the first of the sovereignty issues in the south china sea, the islands, parcel where the position of china has been that they will only negotiate in a bilateral environment which make it is impossible to solve those issues quite frankly. the other hearings, as i discussed with you if you visit in my office particularly but also the red river that goes into vietnam, that does not recognize the water rights down the stream and with the dams being built, they are serious

potential environmental consequences and actually in the northern part of vietcong. what can you do to encourage the chinese to participate in finding solutions to the sovereignty issues other than a bilateral environment? >> well, i think that we need to impress upon china that the stability of the asian region is obviously in the interest of not just the other countries, but also china's. and that, therefore, engagement on these issues is in it's self-interest as well, dealing with water, dealing with disputed territorial claims, and that they should be addressed in a peaceful, collaborative way that adheres to international norms and rules. >> thank you. the final question that i have is with respect to china's continued status as a developing

country in terms of per capita income which allows their government to receive billions of dollars in multilateral assistance and concessional lending for a lot of their development projects on a time when they are sitting on trillions of dollars because of the trade balances, what would your comment be on that? >> i think there needs to be a more frank recognition that while china is considered a developing country, it is more developed than most other countries. and that various international mechanisms must recognize that. for instance, that's the position in the united states over the current negotiations over the doha round. there are agrees of developing countries, many that are more developed than others. not all should be lumped in the same category. i think that applies with some of the same issues that you've just raised. >> thank you very much. >> senator webb, chairman kerry

has asked that the chair be -- gavel be handed to you as chair of the subcommittee at this juncture. >> i am pleased. thank you. senator menendez. >> thank you. thank you for your service to our country. it's been exceptional. i appreciate it very much. this is an incredibly important position that you have been nominated to. and i have three lines of questioning that i hope to pursue with you, one is on taiwan, one is on iran, and the other is intellectual property issues. i co-chair the senate taiwan caucus. i am extremely concerned about the military balance in the taiwan strait. reports issued by taiwan and u.s. defense authorities clearly outline the direct threat faced

by taiwan as a result of china's unprecedented military build up, and experts in both our country and in taiwan have raised concern that taiwan is losing the qualitative advantage in defense arm that is have served as it's primary military deterrent against china. to counter this, the taiwanese sought to modernize their flighter fleet. which i belief in terms of defense and deterrent as well as in the promoted and compelled by the taiwan relations act. later today i'll be spending a letter to the president along with 40 members of the united states senate requesting that the administration accept taiwan's letter of request and move quickly to notify congress of the sale of the f-16s. could you share with me your view on the whole question of the military balance and the

taiwan strait and do you believe that the united states should proceed to the sales of those f-16s? >> let me first say that the united states remained committed to the one china policy based on the three joint and the taiwan relations act. we believe that the cross straiters must resolved peacefully in a manner that is acceptable to the people on both sides of the strait. and the administration will continue to follow the taiwan relations act and make available to taiwan defense articles and services necessary to enable them to have a sufficient self-defense capability. we also believe that china must reduce it's military deployment aimed at taiwan. having said that, no decision has been made with respect to further sales of defensive items to taiwan. that is under review. and that is being evaluated by both the others within the

defense department and the state department. >> well, i appreciate that formal answer. which i expected. let me go further though, because you are going to be the united states ambassador in china. and it is very difficult to have the, you know, i understand the one country policy, but if you can be devoured if you do not have the ability to defend yourself. is it going to be very clear from your position should you be confirmed that taiwan has within the one country structure the continuing right to existence and make it's own self-determination efforts there? >> well, that is the fundamental part of our one china policy, that the united states stands with taiwan to ensure that it

can defend itself and that it's self-defense capabilities are never eroded. >> yeah. the problem is that taiwan has been seeking this help since 2006. so this proceeds this administration. but we are going to be closing down that line if we do not make this sale. and therefore we will leave taiwan in a position that is -- i think, indefensible at the end of the day. to me it only exacerbates the situation for the one china policy. i hope that inside of the administration, you'll be an advocate of making sure that balance is retained which ultimately is in our collective interest. secondly, i mean it's very rare that we get 40 members in a bipartisan way to send message to the administration. secondly on iran, the -- there's a long history of iranian relationships, nuclear cooperation and both parties

remain keen to enhance their political and economic relationships. my concern that the chinese continue to share sensitive ballistic missile, chemical, and nuclear weapons technology with iran, as a matter of fact, last month, jane's defense weekly reported that the chinese inaugurated a missile plant in iran. given the history, what steps will you take as ambassador to address the chinese government with the serious concerns held by the united states as well as the international community about it's engagement with iran? >> first of all, we note that china has actually played a very important role in dip plottic efforts to address the threat by iran's nuclear program and was instrumental in helping craft the u.n. resolution. we've also said we are very concerned that china and chinese companies not back fill, especially in the energy sector where other companies have around the world are leaving or

departing iran. because we know that certainly if other companies from china are engaged in helping develop irans energy sector, that will provide income which can then be used to help develop and further develop iran's nuclear capability. that we very much oppose. we very much believe that china can and must do more. of course, we have in the united states passed our own set of sanctions and legislation. i want to inform you and reiterate that on tuesday, the state department announced the sanctions against several companies, including three chinese companies and one individual. we take what china is doing and what chinese companies are doing very, very seriously. any proliferation, and additional work by iran on nuclear arms is paramont of

important. we believe that china must do more and help enforce it and also to understand the position of the united states, even respect to our sanctions policies. >> so you will do that robusting as the ambassador. >> very much so, sir. finally, intellectual property infridgement. you had been at the forefront of trying to promote america's opportunities to send it's products and services aboard. but i know that you know that the u.s. international trade commissioner just released the 332 page report on ipr infridgement and it's effect on u.s. competitiveness. that report suggests that the losses to u.s. industry are valued at $48 billion, resulted in over $2 million lost jobs. when president hu visited president obama in january, there were high hopes that the

property right campaign would yield results. we haven't seen any dramatic changes in china. so on that issue and on the issue that brings something close at home to me in new jersey, which is the online journal piracy conditions that have proved, we have 50,000 workers in the united states, over 3,000 many my home state that consistently find themselves with ipr violations directly taking place where chinese libraries just go ahead and consume totally the intellectual property rights of these medical and other journalist. will you vigorously as our ambassador impress and vigorously pursue the chinese to seek enforcement of the intellectual property issues both on the online context and broader context.

>> that was one the priorities on the -- once a commerce secretary, always a commerce secretary. it's certainly a top priority for the united states. >> thank you, mr. secretary. thank you. >> continue to chair. i'm here for a few minutes. i've got another meeting to go to. i apologize i wanted to come back and tell secretary locke i wasn't raising away. we have competing finance committee and a couple of other things going on. i apologize. >> senator richardson. >> mr. secretary, you've certainly have a challenges job in front of you. there's lots and lots of different issues and a lot of them have been aired here. one the things that is important to me, and i think important to all senators and this particularly true for my service on the intelligence committee and on this committee is that the united states has a policy

of trying to contain both iran and north korea. and contain their nuclear ambitiouses. and, of course, the only way countries like this can pursue their nuclear ambitiouses is to have very sensitive and highly technical materials but they buy from somewhere. we all know that the united states is very diligent in containing the product that is are produced here from winding up in the hands of either the iranians or the north koreans. unfortunately, we do find that there are chinese products that wind up there. and china says the right things, it publicly takes the position that they don't support that. and yet, it is chinese companies that are doing business to the back door or the black market or what have you that do allow a

certain technological equipment to get in the hands of north korea and to iran. and so, i want to encourage you and the -- in the strongest terms to reinforce with the chinese our concern about that and how you can't talk about it in one setting and yet turn the blind eye in the other setting as your company's profit from helping arm these particular countries. so that's as much a statement as it is a question. and i know you've talked about it a little bit. but i'd appreciate perhaps if you could enhance your testimony in that regard. >> well, again, both in korea, north korea and in iran, china played a constructive role in helping pass and formulate the

u.n. rules and sanctions imposed on north korea and iran. it's important, as you indicated, those obligations be enforced throughout the world. that's why, for instance, on tuesday, the state department announced the sanctions against several companies, including chinese companies and chinese individuals in addition to endties from -- in addition to entities elsewhere around the world. it's -- stopping proliferation is an utmost priority of the united states government. and that includes the ambassador to china. we need to convey to the chinese people and to the leaders of china that it's also in their national security interest to avoid proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and the nuclear capability of both north korea and iran. and that whatever commercial

benefits some of their companies may obtain by continuing to sell or transfer technology to north korea or iran that the risk and the potential destabilizing order in the world are not outweighed. peace and security for the entire world outweigh any potential commercial advantages gained by a few companies or individuals. >> i think that's an point -- an important point to make. the profits are modest compared to the harm that can be done internationally and overall by putting these highly sensitive products that have been developed by a very sophisticated people into the hands of those who want to use it not for good. so i think that's a very important argument. i appreciate that. thank you very much, mr. secretary.

thank you. >> thank you, senator richard richardson. i have a follow on question. i'm acting in my capacity as chair of the subcommittee. i know you outrank me. you want the gavel, you can have it. i still have one more question. >> maybe we do have an election out here. i can help. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i appreciate that very much. chairman webb. i want to follow up on a couple of points that were raised by my colleagues. secretary locke it's a pleasure to have you here. i just personally want to thank you for your willingness to allow your name to come forward for this position. this is your background and training is what we need representing our nation in china. and your record in commerce is, i think, will be very valuable to your role as ambassador. so i thank you. i thank your family for your willingness to continue this in

role. i want to follow up on points raised by several of my colleagues on commerce issues. starting first with intellectual property, i know senator menendez just questioned on that. i just want to under score the importance to american manufacturing and to american production that we impress upon the chinese their international responsibilities on the enforcement of intellectual property issues. it's in the manufacturing products, it's in creative products, so many different areas that china has been a major abuser of allowing producting to be manufactured or stolen. i just really wanted to underscore that point. i encourage you to make this a high priority. i want to talk a little bit

about china as it relates to also currency manipulation issue. you and i have it a chance to talk about that. if there's one issue that probably is the most dominant, as far as the level playing field for u.s. manufacturers and producers, and farmers is having a level playing field on currency. and i would hope that you would make that also a top priority on your portfolio. china has made some progress recently, only because they felt it was in their direct economic interest to do that. that seems to be the way that they move forward. they don't do it because of respect for level plays field. and i would hope that our policy would be very clear that they must allow their currency to float, reaching the economic balance and not an arbitrary balance. those two are my principal economic issue that is i would hope that you would take forward

and move forward on. i would be glad to get your response. >> again, intellectual property rights in china is problematic. it's a top priority for the united states government and top prior if i for me as commercial secretary. even before joining the secretary as the lawyer on behalf of u.s. companies, it will be a top priority for me as ambassador to china if confirmed by the senate. we know that the inability or the lack of china's currency floating and being set by market forces puts american companies at a disadvantage and at an unfair position. all of our work at the department of commerce, which will continue as ambassador to china, if confirmed, is to ensure that american companies

have fair and open access to china and that includes nontariff barriers, it includes currency, it includes a level playing field, it also includes intellectual property rights. because the recent report that senator menendez indicated, u.s. companies are losing tens of billions of dollars because of violations of intellectual property rights. that's of great concern to us in the united states government and will continue as secretary secr- as, excuse me, ambassador to china. >> one final point. that is that china is becoming a more interesting country as it relates to our policies in the middle east. we've seen recent events between pakistan and china indicates that they are becoming more interested in that region. china, of course, holds one the permanent seats in the united nations. we have to work with china in that regard. i would like to get your assessment as to where we think we can make advancements in

china's help as it relates to our policies in iran or pakistan or afghanistan in the region as to how china could be a more conductive partner to the united states. >> the united states and china have collaborated on a whole host of issues. including countering terrorism and, of course, that's of great interest and of particular importance in afghanistan and pakistan. and so we share interest and stability in that region. and encountering terrorism, we therefore are encouraging china given it's alliances, for example, pakistan, to do more in the area of countering terrorism. i believe that because afghanistan and pakistan are solos in part of the region, bordering china, they have deep interest in ensuring stability in that region as well. we need to partner with them and

urge china to do even more in helping promote and using the alliance that is they have to promote that stability. >> well, thank you. i know that since you have taken on the position and the cabinet, you have been living in the state of maryland. we welcome you in maryland any time. we hope that you will come back soon. and we're very proud of your nomination. thank you. :

when we had general jones here, in the context of what we were discussing a little while ago when the afghanistan region, we tend to examine and debate the afghanistan situation to kind of moving letter lead out into afghanistan, to pakistan and pakistan to india, but i believe this movement towards resolution in that part of the world could give china a major opportunity to demonstrate that it can assume some leadership and with a country that has had a special relationship for a long time. and i would hope that you would find a way to encourage that. last week, i want to ask you a question about the transshipment of arms.

this is particularly troubling with respect to china's relationship with north korea and some allegations that have been made. last week china blocked the release of the united nations report by a seven-member panel tasked with monitoring sanctions against north korea. the report concludes that north korea has been exporting missiles and technology in violation of u.n. sanctions with diplomats saying that the shipments were transiting china to iran. we have other allegations over the past year, so with respect to burma and congo, burundi, and all of them going back to the fact that in some places in china, there were transshipment usually from north korea but not exclusively. one commentator a couple of days ago said that many analysts argue that china is committed to a folding its u.n. obligations

but it has a problem of lax export control enforcement. while china cannot marshal the resources to prevent the transshipment of north korean weapons that can commit 300,000 internet police to monitor on line traffic and stifle free speech, and quote. what is the state department's policy on this issue, and to what degree do you believe it is a priority issue in terms of our future relations? >> we are very very concerned about these allegations of transshipment and we believe that the report should be released so that there can be greater transparency and scrutiny on what is happening by north korea. and getting back to the issue of the region itself and the special relationships that china has developed with several of these countries, we believe that china should use its influence

as a source for stability and security and prosperity for the entire region and we will be encouraging china to use that special relationship to increase that security and stability of the region. that also applies to north korea, and we are very deeply concerned about transshipment of weapons systems, material from north korea to other parts of the world. >> thank you. could you provide us with the state department policy on the statement of policy on this issue of transshipment? we have had some difficulty getting a clear statement from the state department on the transshipment per se. >> i will try to do that, sir. >> thank you and with respect to your comment and my follow on to senator cardin on pakistan i would reiterate i think this is a major opportunity for

u.s.-china relations, the chinese were able to step in given their history with pakistan and assist in a solution. they are going to benefit from it quite frankly with the increased ability in the region and their economic interests and it would be a great signal to be able to send in terms of cooperation between our two countries. senator risch did you have a follow follow-on question? >> thank you very much. i am instructed by a chairman kerry to indicate that the hearing record will remain open for 48 hours for any senator who wishes to bake a further statement or ask questions for the record. other than that, i again would congratulate you on your nomination and i know what a special thing this must be for your family and also for those who went before you. it was very touching to hear about your father touring your testimony this morning, and wish

you the best of luck. the hearing is now close. >> thank you very much, senator. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

>> the senate special committee on aging that today to look at the programs and policies of the older americans act, a law which

aids state and local groups that provide social services to seniors. witnesses included the head of the federal and the stray shin on aging which administers the law as well as former first. lady, roslyn carter, who has a caregiving institute. wisconsin senator herb kohl chairs this hour and 40 minute hearing. [inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations]

[inaudible conversations] [inaudible conversations] >> good afternoon. we would like to thank all of you for being with us today.ik in 1965, the day medicare was

created president johnson signed a landmark bill for america's seniors. the older americans act. bill today the program is authorized by the oaa served more than 10 million older americanss nationwide and over 386,000 in my state ofo wisconsin. they help seniors liver independently in their communities through home care,ep home delivered an group meals, family caregiver support, transportation as well as otherl services. while the need for such vital sea services has increased during these difficult economicc times, federal funding for oaa programs is not. this year, oaa programs were cut by 17% from last year. by ry five years congress takes evfresh look at oaa programs to assess whether they are meeting the needs of the peopleerss they serve. last september held a fieldthe s hearing in milwaukee together ideas for strengthening and improving oaa programs.

since then, we havere incorporad many of the recommendations and received into priorities and we will work with our colleagues t include these priorities in the new bill. one of our priorities will address helping the nearly 44 million family members, providing care to an older relative by simply asking themil quote what do youy need? by permitting states to assess whether family caregivers need services such as respite care and counseling, we can delayed more costs to institutionale cae placements of frail and disableo seniors.ly we also believe we mustts strengthen the long-term care ombudsman program which provides an advocate for elderly andrengn disabled patients to help resolve complaints of abuse and ombudsman program, which helps resolve colaints neglect

those we look forward to your remarks, particularly those who are testifying on how we can improve the older americans act. we turn now to senator bob corker. >> thank you, mr. chairman. as always, thanks for calling the hearing. on the older americans act. we thank the witnesses who are here today to share your expertise and experience. i want to especially thank roz alisten carter, our former first lady for sharing her experience and others. on the good work they're doing for seniors of east tennessee. i look forward to learning more about older americans act programs today. when the older americans act was passed in 1965 it was designed to be the human services support

for seniors and complement the health support offered by the brand new medicare/medicaid programs. this non-medical support envisioned by the older americans act was proven to be what seniors need to stay in their own homes and independent as long as possible. these services, like home-delivered meals, rides to appointments and activities, housekeeping and personal care, case management, caregiver support, and senior centers a s the sort of home and community-based services that seniors and their families across the country rely upon. in tennessee, older americans act home and community-based program serve about 159,000 people, almost 2,000 people are working and learning new skills for future sustainable employment because of the senior community service program. the service providers in tennessee work hard to help

seniors maintain dignity and independence with the latest innovation and programs. for example, tennessee has started to get in place aging and disability resource centers. these centers are to serve as a single point of entry for all seefrs services a senior may be eligible for. i look forward to review thing the upcoming administration of these centers and to see if any necessary improvements in this information and referral innovation. in 2020 -- and this is something that i think all of us are focused on as we look at future budgets -- there will be more than 75 million people over the age of 60, and thereby eligible for the older americans act programs. with our population growing older, these programs become more and more important, but, at the same time, with we are experiencing a fiscal crisis, a

need to seriously review spending on all government programs. this means that older americans act programs will have to continue to innovate and increase efficiencies to meet increasing demand. i look forward to working with my colleagues and with our panelists to continue to modernize the older americans act so it can be flexible and appropriate to serve the needs of our nation's seniors. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thanks very much, senator corker. senator nelson of florida. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to take this opportunity to thank you for your long and distinguished career. it this is the first opportunity publicly that i can say that to you, as we have already discussed privately, because last week you announced that you are agoing to retire from publi

service and your 24-year career in the united states senate is most distinguished and most appreciated by a lot of folks who never get a chance to tell you. and like most citizens of the united states that have a connection one way or another with florida, so you do as well. the senator's brother is one of our distinguished citizens palm beach. and i want to say to ms. carter, thank you for you just keeping on keeping on. it was a long time ago when you and your husband were campaigning in the florida primary in 1976, and you have been his partner every step of the word in the best sense of that word and you continue today

rendering service to our country and to our people. so thank you very much. and, mr. chairman, i just wanted to mention that, on this subject that we are discussing today, a good example is a bill that i've had to file -- i say had to file because, for example, in all the good stuff that programs like community development block grants do, cdbgs, but it has, for example, a limitation of 15% of the funds that can go to feeding programs for seniors. in one particular case, the city of miami wants to desperately to use those -- the remaining cdbg funds for assistance to seniors

in the feeding programs, but they're limited to 15%. so i filed a bill to raise that a modest alt amount to 25% that would give the recipients of the cbgd's that amount to tailor their particular needs of the community, in this particular case the need of senior citizens. i just wanted to get that out on the record for the committee. >> very if. thank you. senator mark udall. >> thank you, mr. chairman. good afternoon to everybody iflt, too, want to associate myself with senator nelson's remarks about your leadership. i haven't forgiven you yet, senator kohl. i want that on the record. >> i have your note. >> i want to welcome our panelists. i unfortunately have to step ouflt i serve on the intelligence committee and we're having an important debate on the patriot act and its reauthorizati reauthorization. i did want to recognize the

former first lady. wonderful to see you here today. ms. greenly, you were hit in pueblo last summer. you were a real crowd pleaser. i can't say the same about myself, but thank you for holding hearing with us in pueblo. i know the chairman and many members of the committee have been holding great hearingings across the kroi on the oaa. we have a great opportunity in my opinion to modernize the act for you a new and unique generation of seniors. i'm a member of the baby boom cohort. these americans, my remarks today, my people are fast approaching medicare eligibility. and i think we have different expectations, different experiences about how we can make our golden years really meaningful. so this is an important hearing, mr. chairman. look forward to working with you to modernize the act in ways that take advantage of the potential and contributions that every american can make regardless of their age. thank you again. >> thanks, senator udall.

>> thank you. i'll be brief and i'll add a statement to the record, but we want to commend you not only for today's hearing but of course for your great service to the united states senate. you've been a great leader of this committee and we'll miss you. we know you're going to be here for a while yet. we're not saying good-bye yet but want to commend you. to rosalyn carter, former first lady, we're grateful you're here and appreciate your important witness on these issues over the years and your leadership and testimony today. assistant secretary greenley, we're grateful to have your testimony today as well. on the second panel, i'm honored to say as a pennsylvanian we have a former mayor of york, pennsylvania, elizabeth marshall, who is here. we will say hello to her in a more personal way a little later, i'm grateful she's here. just a couple of words about why we're here. this legislation, of course, the older americans act, has often been described as the glue that

holds a whole series of programs that benefit older citizens together. i think what brings us into this room today is not just legislation and policy but a shared commitment that we have more work to do as it relates to older citizens, those who have fought our wars, worked in our factories, taught our children, built our economy and gave us life and love, that we've got an obligation and enduring, abiding obligation to do all we can. one of the ways to fulfill that obligation is to make sure we make the right choices on legislation and policy. i'm happy to be part of this hearing today. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you very much, senator casey. we're honored to have with us today former first lady rosalynn carter. we're all familiar with ms. carter's tireless advocacy alongside her husband president carter on behalf of human rights and conflict resolution around

the world. she is also a dedicated advocate for caregivers and mental health issues here at home. ms. carter is president of the rosaly rosalynn institute for care gifg at georgia southwestern state university where she leads the institute's efforts to promote the well-being of family caregivers throughout our country. she is an inspiration for many and a ledgend in her own right. next we'll be hearing from kathy greenley, the assistant secretary for aging at the u.s. department for health and human services. ms. greenley has a wealth of experiences advancing the health and independence of seniors and families. previously she served as secretary for aging for the state of kansas as well as the kansas stacannes state long-ter ombudsman. we thank you very much for being here and we'll take your comments and testimony, mrs. carter.

>> i'm very pleased to be here this afternoon to speak about care giving, an issue that is very important to me. it's been part of my life since i was 12 years old and my father was diagnosed with leukemia at age 44. we lived in a very small town, and all the neighbors rallied around. but i still vividly remember going to my secret hiding place, the outdoor privy, if you can believe that, to cry. that's where i could be alone. i was the oldest child, and i felt the burden of needing to help care for my father and my three younger siblings, yet i was afraid and didn't always feel like strong. but my mother depended on me. less than a year after my father died, my mother's mother died, and my grandfather came to live with us. he was 70 and lived to be 95. my mother cared for him at home until he died. i helped as much as i could, but i was married and living away much of the time. during the last few years of his life, he was bedridden and

totally dependent on her, our family members, neighbors and friends, for all his needs. my story is not unique, but today the informal support networks that were so much a part of my life in a small town, neighbors, extended family, the church, are not there for millions of americans. families are fractured and dispersed. women, the traditional caregivers are now an integral part of the work force, advances in medical science means we're living much longer. yet resources that enable us to live independently are sorely lacking. we face a national crisis in caregiving, especially for our elderly citizens. most frail elderly and disabled people live at home today. about 90% of the care they need is provided by unpaid, informal caregivers. most often family members, providing tasks that only skilled nurses performed just a decade ago and with minimal

training. many of these caregivers are frail themselves and find the burdens overwhelming. consider are these facts -- older people caring for their spouses have a 63% higher mor l mortality rate than those of similar age without cares giving responsibilities. the stress of care giving someone with dementia negatively impacts the caregiver p up to three years after caregiving ends making them more susceptible to illnesses. caregivers report cancer, heart disease and diabetes at twice the rates of noncaregivers. and up to 50% report struggling with depression. it's even higher when caring for a loved one with dementia. while experts estimate the value of care provided by unpaid informal caregivers to be more than $375 billion annually, medicare givers have to reduce their working hours or even quit

their jobs, losing health and retirement benefits worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. economic consequences are devastating. our nation's family caregivers are enduring both physical and mental problems and even dying sooner because of the responsibilities in caring for a loved one. mr. chairman, there are only four kinds of people in the world. those who have been caregivers, those who currently are caregivers, those who will be caregivers and those who will need caregiving. that's all of us. caregiving knows no geographic or political boundaries. the rosalynn institute for caregifg at georgia southwestern state university near my hometown is doing groundbreaking work helping with challenging care giving responsibilities. in one of our programs we undertook a national assessment of the state of caregiving in our country. we discovered innovative

programs proven to be effective, but they were not and are not reaching people in need. one of them focuses on the spouses of people with alzheimer's disease. it provides concrete advice on how to deal with difficult behaviors like wandering, repeatedly asking questions and agitation. it also focuses on taking care of oneself and onsimple sec nee to reduce stress. a woman who went through the program said it changed her life. she said she was overwhimmed by difficulties and stresses on resuming care for her mother after her father died unxpiktedly. she now is proud to be able to allow her mother to stay in her home. just think what a difference this kind of program would make in lives of caregivers across the dri. the rci, the rosalynn carter institute, has been working in georgia and in demonstration sites around the country to introduce these interventions at the community level. but of more needs to be done.

there must be a fundamental shift in how this nation values and supports caregivers and caregiving. last october the rosalynn carter institute released a very important report averting the caregiving crisis, why we must act now. this report is a result of three years of intensive study, which involved hundreds of experts. i urge each of you to read it carefully for it contains a blueprint for a national initiative to support family caregivers. its recommendations include better assess thes of caregiver health and greater flexibility in both public and private insurance programs to provide training and support for family caregivers and more. its most important recommendation, however, is a call for leadership. we propose a national quality caregiving task force in the

president's office with shared leadership between the secretary of health and human services and the secretary of veterans affairs. we have the knowledge base to solve the caregiver crisis and we're already spending billions of dollars which can be used much more effectively. these are challenging times for our country with extreme pressure on federal, state and local resources. families and communities are struggling to cope, yet if we fail to act now, the consequences for those in need of care will be increased rates of institutionalization, higher risk of abuse and neglect, unnecessary isolation, and perhaps even premature death for family caregivers it will mean much greater burden, increased risk of physical or mental health problems, and more financial hardships. for our already overtaxed health care system, it would be impossible to find the workforce to deliver high-quality

institutionalized care. the overall impact would be an unpress acedented burden. in human terms, it would lead to unparalleled suffering for americans and their caregivers. we cannot let this happen. thank you for the opportunity to speak with you about this most significant national issue. mr. ohl, .. ms ms. greenley. senator kohl, good to see you again, senator corker, members of committee on aging. thank you for the opportunity today to taunl about the reauthorization of the older americans act. in preparation for this process at the administration on aging, we went through the most extensive outreach effort in the history of the agency to seek input all across the country from family caregivers, seniors and other individuals who are are providing support. we have a lot of information that we've gathered about the value of these programs and look

forward to continuing to work with this committee as we take p up the challenge of reauthorization. senator kohl, i would like to join your colleagues in commending you in your service on behalf of older americans. i think i've mentioned to you before i first heard of you from our mutual friend george pa tross xi, the long-term care oemz buds man in kansas. not only have you helped seniors, but you've paid particular attention to seniors in nursing homes in this country. many of us, i think i can speak on behalf of the aging network, will miss your leadership and have valued your contribution. thank you for your service. it's also wonderful to appear today with mrs. carter. a tremendous honor to be here. i met mrs. carter last fall when i traveled to the rosalynn carter institute to talk specifically about what we need to do to continue to advance the cause and the support for caregivers. she had released her report

about that same time. mrs. carter is a leader in the field of caregiving. the work they're doing at the institute is innovative. the leadership she is asking for she herself is providing. i also want to acknowledge her work in the field of mental health. not something we'll spend as much time on in this hearing, but mrs. carter's work in mental health is really important for individuals dealing with mental health and their family members. i applaud your work, mrs. carter. it's an honor to be here. as you know and mentioned, i was the secretary of aging in the state of kansas. i have served now two years for the u.s. assistant secretary for aging. in both of those capacities, i have listened to and spoken to literally thousands of individuals and families in a variety of settings, and i have seen firsthand how the older americans act reflects the values that we have in this country. supporting independence, helping people maintain their health and well-being so they're better able to live with dignity, protecting the most vulnerable

among us, and providing basic respite care and other support for families so that they're better able to take care of loved ones in their holmes and their communities for as long as possible. this is what americans of all ages overwhelmingly tell us they prefer, to age at home in their communities. one of the real strengths of the older americans act is it doesn't matter if an individual lives in a rural area, frontier area or urban center. the programs and the community-based supports are flexible and flexible enough to meet the needs of individuals in all of these diverse communities and settings. over the past year alone, nearly 11 million older americans and their family caregivers have been supported through the older americans act comprehensive community-based system. these services, as you mentioned, senator kohl, complement medical and health care systems. they help to prevent hospital readmissions. they provide transportation to

doctor's appointments and support of some of life's most basic functions, such as bathing or having a home-delivered meal. this assistance is especially critical for nearly 3 million seniors who receive intensive in-home services. 500,000 of whom would otherwise qualify for nursing home admission. for more than a year we've received reports from more than 60 reauthorization listing sessions around the country, have received online input from a variety of sectors, individuals and organizations and their caregivers. this input represents the interests of thousands of individuals with regard to the older americans act's services. during this process, we heard an overriding issue that mrs. carter has already spoken to today, was also advanced through the vice president's middle class task force. and that's issue with regard to families. families are doing the best that they can, but they're struggling between balancing the demands of work, child care, and elder care. families tell us that they need

some basic assistance in supporting their care for their loved ones. during our process of soliciting ip put, we heard that the older americans act is working and it needs to continue to be flexible. we also heard two particular themes that i want to suggest in terms of further conversation. one suggestion or recommendation that we have heard is that we continue to improve the program outcomes by embedding evidence-based interventions and disease prevention programs, encouraging comprehensive person-centered approaches, providing flexibility to respond to local nutrition needs, and increasing efforts to fight fraud and abuse. second, we need to remove barriers and enhance access, extending caregiver supports to parents who care for their adult children with disabilities, providie ining ombudsman servic all residents of nursing seniors and using single access points

to provide information regarding public and private resources for long-term supports and services. let me give you three brief examples we'd like to discuss as we continue our work. one, we should ensure that we utilize the best evidence-based interconventions for helping older individuals manage chronic disease. these have been effective at helping people adopt healthy lifestyles, improve health status and reduce their use of hospitals and emergency room visits. we want to improve the senior community services employment program by integrating it with other senior programs. as you know, the president has recommended in 2012 through this budget process that we transfer the older workers program from the department of labor to the administration on aging. we would also like to continue to combat fraud and abuse of both medical you care and medicaid by permanently establishing the program as a basic component of the older americans act. so we can continue to use retired volunteers to help us detect and deter fraud in the

area of medicare and medicaid. the older americans act has historically enjoyed widespread bipartisan support. based in part on this extensive public input, we believe that reauthorization can strengthen the older americans act and put it on solid footing to meet the challenges of a growing population of seniors, while continuing to carry out the critical mission of helping elderly individuals maintain their health and independence in their holmes and communities. thank you again, senator kohl, senator corker, for your leadership. i look forward to working with you and the rest of your committee. >> thank you very much, ms. greenlee. we'll now commence questioning. we'll start with senator corker. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i'll be brief. again, thank you both for your testimony. ms. carter, i notice the chairman said you were a legend in your own right. certainly not in relation to anybody up on this panel, we serve with a lot of people here that are a legend in their own

mind. so we thank you so much for having earned that and certainly bringing such focus on this issue. but thank you very much for your testimony. i have a few organizational issues to ask mrs. greenlee about. the president's budget this year transfers some additional responsibilities to your agency, title 5 senior community services, employment program, the state health insurance assistant program, the class act. you know you were talking about some of the flexibilities and other things that need to happen within your organization. is that going to, in your opinion, distract at all from your ability to efficiently carry out the other responsibilities of the organization? >> no, senator corker. the agency has a 45-year history and experience in providing community supports to individuals. one of those kpoept components economic security of seniors. we have a variety of programs

that have worked on pension koumsing, benefits outreach, bringing the program to oaa will help our mission. it's the only one of the programs that we do not administer. the senior health insurance assistance levels are delivered through our area can agencies at the local level. and the reason for the class act, the underlying need for the classes act, is to provide a different type of option for individuals to maintain their independence in the community. we feel like we have a wenl wealth of knowledge to support these other programs and can make them all work to help individuals, people with disabilities and seniors, remain ind independent. i know secretary sebelius has mentioned that the class act is an unsustainable program unless numbers of changes are made. i know that y'all are probably closest to it, since as you mentioned you're going to be involved in implementing. are there things that y'all are already looking at to major structural changes to actually cause the class act to be

sustainable? i know there's people on both sides of the aisle with a lot of concerns about that. >> senator, as you have referenced, i was designated officially in january of the administrator of the class program. the secretary and i have both had opportunity to testify, most specifically on the house side, and committed ourselves and our efforts to the financial solvency of this program. we both agree that there are reforms that need to be made to the program in order to sustain the program and make it financially sound for 75 years as required by the law. we will this fall issue prim p marry regulations with regard to the program and at that time be able to provide more information about the kinds of things that we'll need to do through a regulatory process to strengthen the program. there are things that we were looking at, considered by the senate, prosecute the bibefore bill was passed that we'll return to first as we find ways to support the program. >> as you go about looking at

implementing -- i know there has to be some investments made, if you will, through your organization to begin that implementation -- how are are we accounting for that? is that something that goes into the actual cost of the class act itself, or is that something -- how is that being accounted for? >> senator, as you know, health and human services was given money to implement the affordable care act. it is from those funds we've currently been paying our operational costs. we have made sure we can identify all the staff who are working on the class program full time, those of us who split our time between class and the administration on aging's traditional work, so we can fairly account for the work we're doing. i believe we're adequately handling the accounting that needs to be done. >> i know there's a lot of -- there's going to be a tremendous amount of focus on medicare and its sustainability over the course of this summer. my hope is that, you know, we will in a bipartisan way figure out a way to make it solvent.

we all know it's going to be insolvent as is. the trustees are stating by the year 2024. as you said with the class act, i think people believe it's already at that stage. i do hope you'll let us know of some of the major frailties that exist there and continue to keep us apprised of that. we thank you for your service. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator. >> thank you, senator corker. senator casey. >> thank you, mr. chairman i want to thank you both for your testimony and the personal witness you bring to these issues. i wanted to start with our former first lady. mrs. carter, on a question that relates to the specialized training that is often needed in these circumstances. i have been, over many years as a state public official for a decade and now in my fifth year in the senate, overwhelmed by

the kind of care that's delivered by direct care workers, how strong they are, how dedicated they are, willing to do backs brebreaking and soms seemingly impossible work on behalf of those who need that care and on behalf of their families. but i wanted to does you about -- i noted in your testimony on the four recommendations that you made, as well as assistant secretary greenlee, about evidence-based programs, and i wanted to get your sense of that based upon your experience as to evidence-based programs on this question of specialized training and preparing folks for doing that difficult work. what can you tell us about that in your experience? >> well, we've been working with evidence-based programs for a good while now at the rosalynn

carter institute. one that we are working on -- we're doing six in all with johnson & johnson. and johnson and johnson's been great because they were the first ones to do clinical trials in nursing homes working with those who are suffering from mental disorders. so they've been very good to us. but we have six programs, and a couple on alzheimer's, and we actually are doing an alzheimer's one at home. and we train people to go into the homes, they don't have to come in fl. when we were trying to get -- they didn't -- caregivers don't want to come in and they don't want to admit they're caregivers. so many of them, they don't want to admit they have help. it's just what they should do

for a family member. but we send them into their houses. when they find out that this person can.c come to the house, they welcome them. and so we go i think six weeks a couple of type times a week, ad we have found that it increases the time people can stay at home without being institutionalized. the depression is lifted to a certain degree. and it just -- it's working. and we're also trying this in other places around the country. but we're working with three now and we are comparing them to see which is best for alzheimer's. we've done one with cancer, but -- and we've had at the carter center everybody that we knew of, i think, in the united states who was working on evidence-based programs. i think we had one from ireland

who came to that meeting. and we have had great reports and actually it just helped so much when the program works. and it is -- it's cost-effective because they don't have to try things and try things. they just know what works. and if think will follow the guidelines of the program, it can help. so we just need evidence-based programs in the whole country. it's going to be a long time before we get there, but we really are working and doing research right now on those programs in many parts of the country. >> i thank you for that. i know that part of what we're trying to do is to not only improve care and provide the kind of highest level of care we can, but also to provide options for the workforce and sometimes i guess they're described as career ladders, ways for people

to move up if they're in an entry-level position. i think that evidence-based research and the care that can come from that is going to be critically poimportant. i've got only about 20 seconds. assistant secretary greenlee, anything you wanted to add on this question of training or the evidence-based methods? >> just state the obvious. it's such a broad topic. it will take many different federal organizations working together. we have a community living initiative within hhs that looks at issues with regard to people with disabilities as well as seniors. senator corker mentioned the classes act. this was identified even in the law of the classes act. you know, how will we support the public programs that we will have in the future of the class act, the medicare and medicaid programs, the programs we have under the older americans act, disability programs with a paid workforce and provide enough support that they have meaningful careered ladders but

also they have a skill set to serve an increasingly aging population. it will take both a paid and unpaid workforce to provide the kaifr needed in this country. >> thank you very much. >> thank you, senator casey. senator manchin. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank both of you for being here. we appreciate it very much. state west virginowest virginia you've done and assistance we get from the older americans act and what it's done to our state. we have the second most aged state in the nation per population. probably one of the most rural states so it's quite costly to get the services that are needed. we've expanded those and i think the word you had mentioned earlier was flexibility. i can't explain enough how much flexibility that we need in some of these states so that the money is not siloed. transportation is one. meals on wheels is another.

used for small states and rural states sufficient as myself. there's more populated states and i know funding mechanism is based on population, it should be base on td on the services t are given. if y'all could just consider that, we serve an awful lot of people in west virginia and our funding is much lower, but we're feeding many, many, many more than other states that might not have the need as we have. with that, i think you might be aware of some of the programs we've expanded and the fair programs and lighthouse programs. we did some things during the most difficult recession times we expanded programs because it was a priority of ours to allow our seniors to live in dignity in their own homes with a little bit of assistance. a need base is a big thing in west virginia because we have a lot of seniors who want to be able to contribute and pay their way or pay part of their way if they can. so we try to develop flexible plans to where they felt like they were still contributing but they couldn't just find the service anywhere.

a lot of times if you're on a certain cuff and you get -- if you're not within a certain guideline as far as income, the service is not even offered. i think that's something that should be considered, too, because it's not for a lack of need. they just can't find anyone else to provide those services and they're willing to pay. so we hope those flexibilities are are taken into consideration. in transportation, that's the one that we're having some concerns about. i don't know if -- i support the oaa lock, stock and barrel. tell me what you think you can do to help us help ourselves more. >> senator, we do have a transportation support that we can provide in the older americans act. transportation is such a huge issue that i don't think there's a way to completely address the transportation needs with such a program of this size. we need to talk to other partners at the federal level and at the state and community level to figure out what the best way is to provide

transportation services. i think one of the best things that we can do -- and for this answer i'm actually relying on my kansas experience -- is to make sure we remove any barriers so if we provided support for, say, a van at any level with government fundses we use it to the best of our ability to serve all populations we can. so i think we need to be innovative, work with our transportation partners, and figure out how we can make sure we're not in the way of what needs to happen in a community to get the job done. >> what recommendation do you y'all have? i know mrs. s carter, from your experience, which recommendation would either wn of you would have we could be more efficient with the dollars we have. as you know the budget constraints are going to be tough on all of us. by setting priorities we can make sure the dollars we have are in place if they go further. we're all growing older and in need of the services i'm sure. but is there anything that we can do that would help you have more efish siz? have we tied your handzs in any way, mrs. charter? >> one of the greatest helps would be to have data so we

could know how to allocate the resources. and one of the recommendations that our study has made is that we use the behavioral risk factor surveillance system that the centers for disease control has developed. they have developed a caregiving module, if we could use that in the states in the oaa, it wouldn't cost very much because the question is not on the survey, all surveys, and you have to ask for it. so we checked to see -- georgia doesn't have it in their survey and so we checked to see how much it would cost. it would cost $21,000 a year just to get that data in georgia. and that would be so helpful in cutting costs. >> for about a decade now, the administration on abling has been focused on evidence-based practices. we do this a lot in the field of

alzheimer's, support for individuals and family members, the evidence-based placket iss i mentioned in my testimony. those of us who work in the social services arena understand science is not just for people in the laboratory. that good evidence, good outcomes in science is a critical part of delivering quality and effective social service programs. that's why we're suggesting that we continue to work in this effort it with regard to the health programs to make sure we have good outcomes. i believe fr agree about the data. our ability to continue to research our programs make the case with regard to the effectiveness, their ability to provide cost savings to other programs such as medicare and medicaid is also a critical component of this conversation as we figure out as we go forward how to balance the supports that are needed with the increasing pressures of more seniors and the struggling budgets at the federal and state level. >> i'll wait for my second

round. thank you very much, both of you. >> thank you very far, senator manchin. we'd like to thank you both profusely for being here today. you've made tremendous contributions today as you have in the past. and again, we appreciate you being here. thank you so much. >> thank you, senators. we'll turn now to the second panel, if you'd step up to the table, please. first we'll be hearing from

eloe elected as a recipient of home-delivered meals. ms. marshall was elected as a first female mayor of york, pennsylvania, in 1977. she also served as a member of the york city council. next we'll be hearing from max richmond, who serves as chairman of the leadership council of aging organizations, a coalition of 66 national aging organizations. mr. richmond is a former staff director at this committee and is currently the acting ceo of the national committee to preserve social security and medicare. welcome. next we'll be hearing from heather bremer, who is executive director and state ombudsman for the wisconsin board on aging an ombudsm ombudsman. she serves on the coalition of

wisconsin aging groups advisory council. senator corcoran has a witness from tennessee. >> i would like to introduce timothy howell, who is seated. he's the chief executive officer of the home assistance services a nonprophet that provides in-home care giving in tennessee. he aims to improve the lives of seniors and persons with disabilities while maintaining their independence and disability. he's been the ceo since 2008. as ceo mr. howell oversaw the completion of renaissance towers, an assisted living community. he's president of the tennessee association of homemaker services providers, member of the national council on aging and the downtown rotary. thank you for traveling from east tennessee to be here. >> thank you. we'll hear now from mrs. marshall.

>> thank you very much. in the early 1960s, i increasingly became involved in the york community, which was undergoing a turbulent time with tensions high over racial issues. i'm sorry. i was not on the first page. i'm sorry. this is addressed to you, chairman kohl, and to senator casey, and other members of the committee. thank you for inviting me to testify before you today. i'm pleased to be able to share with you my thoughts on the older americans act. throughout my life, i have always strived to be an independent woman. born in 1918, i'm a child of the great depression, and if

continued to live by the values of the economy, thrift and self-reliance that i learned during my formative years. my husband, howard, and i married after he returned from serving overseas. we moved to york, pennsylvania in 1948 and we bought our first and only home there in 1954. this is the same house i live in today. our two sons still live near me, and my daughter resides in new hampshire. an old song by joseph burke called "a little bit independent" is my theme song, if you will. a little bit independent in your walk, a little bit independent in your style. i have worked throughout my life to be an independent woman. to find my strengths and use them. whether in service to my family,

community or country. in the early 1960s, i increasingly became involved in the york community, which was undergoing a turbulent time. and i eventually, in 1971, i was elected the first member of city council, and later served -- i'm sorry. it led to my election to york city council in 1971, and then i was elected as the first female mayor of york in 1977. i later served as deputy controller for the city of york. so i know something about government and the challenging choices faced by decision makers as to the best use of taxpayer dollars. after my public service career, i worked as a real estate agent for 18 years and retired just 11

years ago at 81 years of age. i have been on my own now for ten years since my husband passed away in 2001. many of us in our neighborhood are long time residents. our tight knit community is essentially aging in place, together, and helping each other remain in our homes for as long as possible. i am proud to still be an independent woman. i want to be able to stay in my home near my family at davis. i'm grateful that the york county area agency on aging is there for me and for thousands of other seniors in my community. i have a care manager at the area on aging. she was able to connect me to the home delivered meals program and if i need additional

supports, services or even just information, she will be ready to assist me and my family. three times a week, a volunteer from the local senior center delivers both hot and cold meals to me in my home. i appreciate the meal service and it's also nice to have a friendly visitor check in to make sure i'm safe and doing well. i understand the home delivered meal service is funded in part through the older americans act. the act allowed the coordination and provision of many other in home and community programs. there's even a part of the act focused on family caregivers to help them help us. we can't forget our senior centers, which are more important than ever to help older adults stay connected to

their community. many recipients of services are like me. they just need one or two little bits of help. others may need more services, but the act allows seniors to receive just what they need to stay healthy. even if you need a high level of support, receiving is care in your home, it's still more affordable for you and the taxpayers than care at a nursing home. as our leaders struggle to balance the budget and reduce the deficit, the cost savings that older americans act programs generate are even more critical. my story is not necessarily a unique one. my peers and i have served our families, community and country for many years. with the right balance of help,

we can continue to remain contributing members of our society and maintain our health, independence and dignity for as long as possible. i'm glad to be able to continue living in my home of 57 years where i can still be "a little bit independent" in my walk. the older americans act allows you to retain your dignity, health and independence with just a little bit of support. i urge this committee and your colleagues in the senate and house to understand how vital these little bits of support are to millions of older americans determined to age in place. we need to reauthorize the older americans act in a timely and bipartisan fashion. and prepare our country for the wave of baby boomers standing

behind my generation. thank you, senator kohl and members of the aging committee for inviting me to share my thoughts about the older americans act with you here today. >> thank you, mrs. marshall. that was a beautiful statement. >> i'm sorry. i didn't hear that. >> that was a beautiful statement. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> mr. richtman? >> mr. chairman, members of the committee, first of all, let me say to mrs. marshall, you're a tough act to follow, but i'll do my best. on behalf of the leadership council of abling organizations, i'm honored to testify before the special committee on aging about the lcao older americans act reauthorization consensus document. lcao is a 66 member coalition of diverse, national, nonprofit organizations dedicated to preserving and strengthening the

well-being of america's older population. historically, lcao has played a significant leadership role in past reauthorizations of the older americans act. in preparation for this year's reauthorization, we worked for over six months to develop the consensus document that we have submitted to the committee. under the leadership of lcao community services committee, individual organizations presented their ideas and suggestions for improving the older americans act. these ideas were incorporated into the consensus document which was enthusiastically endorsed by the full lcao at our april 6 meeting. the lcao, older americans act reauthorization document contains 98 recommendations. they do a number of things. they reinforce key existing priorities in the current

statute and seek to address challenges and opportunities brought about by the exponential growth of our older population. we agreed that the older americans act continues to work very well for older adults across the country. the act's core mission, infrastructure and programs remain relevant, effective and very much relied upon by older adults and caregivers. the problem we face, of course, is insufficient funding, which makes it difficult for the aging network to carry out older american act priority as established by congress in past reauthorizations. there simply is not enough money for all the needs that exist. on that note, i would like to thank you on behalf of our organization, mr. chairman, for your request to the general accounting office to examine the true magnitude of this unmet need. we also acknowledge that the older americans act, like other

statutes is a dynamic document that can and must change to address emerging needs and embrace new innovations. it's notable that the older americans act is up for reauthorization the same year that the first of the baby boomers turns 65. not only are the numbers of older adults increasing at a historic rate, but this population is becoming much more diverse. additionally as older americans live longer, they face growing health and economic challenges, all of these issues are converging to place tremendous strain on the aging network. a network that is already overburdened but eager to expand capacity and enhance planning to meet the demands and opportunities presented by our aging population, particularly in times of fiscal restraint, times such as now, we acknowledge that the improvements can be made in the efficiency and effectiveness of

the older americans act in its delivery of core services and how it interacts and coordinates with other federal programs that serve older adults. there are recommendations throughout the document we presented that call for improved coordination of services and identification and dissemination of best practices that already occur in local communities in order to strengthen the aging network nationwide. lcao also believes it is crucial to strengthen evaluation, research and demonstration of aging services. this will not only empower the aging network to continue implementing best practices but will also state with authority the degree to which the older americans act provides a cost effective way for older adults to remain in their own homes with health and economic security. the older americans act programs such as in home assistance, home

delivered and conning 53 gait meals and respite for caregivers benefit individuals and their families. they also save federal and state government resources from being spent on otherwise unnecessary care on hospitals and nursing homes. on behalf of lcao, i applaud this committee for its leadership and calling attention on the upcoming reauthorization. we urge congress to continue the long tradition of bipartisan and timely reauthorization of this important statute while providing the funding needed for older americans act programs to keep older americans independent and productive. thank you again for the opportunity to testify today on behalf of the 66 members of the lcao, and i welcome your questions and comments. thank you. >> thank you, mr. richtman. heather bruemmer. >> chairman, kohl, ranking

member corker and members of the committee, thank you so much for this opportunity to testify today. the state long term om budsman of wisconsin. it is a privilege and honor to be here on behalf of the ombudsman act. the significance of this effort to reauthorize the older american act cannot be overestimated. it is a primary duty of this nation to protect our most vulnerable individuals and to preserve their pride and dignity. everyone has a history, a story. we all create memories, so it's our responsibility to ensure that all members of our rapidly aging population has the proper access to services to respect the right to be who they are and who they've been. the older american acts provides critically needed services that allow older adults to remain for as long as possible in the community with needed support.

since 1978, the ombudsman program has been the only program that serves consumers provided by residential care facilities. i think we all appreciate and value the importance of living in our own home. we heard from elizabeth today. as a result, there's been remarkable growth in the community based services for seniors in wisconsin. in november of 2008, we had a significant trend happen. we have more assisted living beds in the state of wisconsin than we do nursing home beds. wisconsin was one of the original pilot states when the long term care ombudsman was first created by congress and our state has relied and improved the resources available. the board on aging formed in 1981. we had five ombudsman. today we have 15 outstanding ombudsman and over 100 volunteers serving 95,000 clients in nursing homes and assisted living facilities.

nationally, ombudsman visited 79% of all nursing homes on a quarterly basis last year. 46% of assisted living facilities and similar homes. throughout the country, it's difficult for ombudsman to participate in visits. the inability of congress to provide sufficient funding is certainly not the result of trying by the champions such as yourself, chairman kohl and the members of this committee. each year the program resolves hundreds and thousands of kplanltsdss and interestingly, 77% of these complaints are resolved to the satisfaction to the client' needs. we spend time in nursing homes. we are able it address the needs of assisted living with the same intensity as the nursing program, it would be unbelievable.

we have falls, medical mismanagement, medication errors, pressure ulcers and abuse situations. unfortunately they are on the rise. we spend a tremendous amount of time investigating these incidents and provide education and guidance to facility staff to help prevent recurrences of these problems. we are faced with inadequate resources but we keep moving forward. resident family counsels are vehicles by which open communications are really important in order to deliver excellent quality of life and care. when considering this reauthorization, it is important with this requirement to maintain resident and family involvement with the assistance of the ombudsman program. access to confidential information for ombudsman is important. we are recommending that this reauthorization ensure the private and unimpeded access by individuals to ombudsman services in a confidential setting. the sections of this act relating to the process of

limitations and disclosure of client information needs clarification and emphasis. it is important that the text of the older american act clarifies the privacy provisions of the health insurance portability and countdownability act do not impede the record by the ombudsman and representatives of the program. the administration of aging declared that the ombudsman are providing a health care function. tloit the country, more and more country that can speak for themselves. we have no legally authorized representative to speak on their behalf. it's our duty and we recommend that we add language to intensify their efforts to expand their education. the board on aging also support the recommendation to amend title two to provide base appropriation beginning at $1 million. it is proven to be a valuable

site for ombudsman, for technical assistance. it would be extremely helpful to expand the facility and ability to work with state workers. the older americans act gives us a strong foundation. reauthorization gives us a window of opportunity to build a robust demonstration of the nation's concern for the well-being of our elders. it is important that congress and the aging network come together to strengthen our long term care ombudsman programs to provide a safe and home like environment. on behalf of wisconsin's long care ombudsman program, i thank you senator kohl, ranking member corker and the members of the committee for allowing me to share our thoughts of the reauthorization. >> thank you, mrs. bruemmer. mr. howell? >> thank you, senators, on the

special committee of aging to address you today. as the ceo of senior citizens home assistance service that provides homemaker and personal care to 20 counties in east tennessee, i see elders and people with disabilities every day that come to me with different situations. although their stories are different, their goal is the same, to maintain their dignity. their health may be fading and all their mental status diminishing, but they are still human beings and their dignity should not be diminished over time. senior citizens home assistance service was formed in 1970 as a study to see if people could use homemaker services to stay in their homes. since then, we have been on the battle of the forefront of maintaining dignity for our elders. the majority of the work we do is through our homemaker and personal care services. we screen, hire and train caregivers to travel to the home and provide light housekeeping,

laundry, shopping, companionship and personal care, bathing, feeding toileting and grooming. this year, we will help over 2,500 people with over 300,000 hours of one on one care to stay in their home. the good news is that the story, is that the agency receives funding from many different sources. we have a full fee private pay system so those that can afords to pay for the services can. then we also receive money from federal, state, veterans administration programs but i think one of the best things that we have and something we could have helped senator manchin with with his question, is we have a sliding scale fee for people that do not qualify for the government programs but also may not have the ability to pay the full fee. we have a sliding scale fee because we are able to have fundraisers and we get united way funding. if somebody comes to us that

does not have the -- that has a gross income that keeps them from the government programs, we are still able to help them, even though they may have expenses such as a home mortgage or medicines or things like that, we are able to help them with a sliding scale fee. they can pay us $7 an hour, $9 an hour. they still can get the help they need to stay in their homes. partnerships are key, we have found, in the battle to provide dignity. we get cleaning supplies donated to us from a local office company so that for those that cannot afford to purchase them, and we also receive nonperishable foods from second harvest, which is another five 0 one c 3 in our county. that allows us to give food to those that may not have the money to pay for their bills at the end of the month. if you're looking for employment opportunities and i understand, mr. kohl that you might be here

recently since you're retiring, we can train you to be a caregiver. our oldest caregiver was born in 1911. she is 90s years old. she brings an aspect to care giving that a person my age cannot do. she is unique with her companionship. we works about 20 hours a week. she talks to people and relates to people while she's cleaning their homes. even on your worst days, she can give you a smile that can brighten your life. over 50% of our 310 employees are older than 50. we have a great caregiver training program that we teach people to be a caregiver. even with all our programs to keep people in their homes, we realize the cost does become expensive at times as their need increases. this is why we built renaissance terrace that charges $2,200 a

month. we are able to keep the monthly fee low because we receive federal, state and local government funding from knox county and from the city of knoxville as well as private donors and foundations to construct the building. with the construction cost funded we have to charge enough to pay for the operating cost such as payroll and supplies. the people that live in our facility are able to pay for the help or the va may help or in some cases family members may help for the fee. the important fact is, is that i'm not here asking you for more money for my assisted living. through combining your one time investment with other partners, we developed a program that can sustain itself through the residents paying for their care. i want to thank you for taking this challenge of providing care to the elders and persons with disabilities while keeping their

dignity intact. i encourage you to look for solutions that can maintain and support themselves with an investment from you but i realize that this will not always be the situation. again i thank you for allowing me to be here today. i'll answer any questions you may have. >> thank you, mr. howell. i would like to ask you, mrs. marshall, your home delivered meal, how important is that in your day and in your week? what would you do if you didn't have the home delivered meal system? >> well, it's hard to know, because i have been able, through my whole life, to be independent. and my son is worried about the fact that i'm alone a lot of the time. and he thought that there should be somebody looking in on me

every day. so i order the meals on wheels. i get it monday, wednesday and friday and there's always someone there in case, you know, i should have fallen, some accident of that sort. so that takes care of three days a week and it also helps me as far as shopping and cooking for myse myself. the various foods that i get, well balanced and healthy. they sometimes need seasoning, fixing up a little bit before you put them in the microwave, but it's a very well balanced, healthy diet really. i'm very grateful for it. on tuesday and thursday, i'm on my own and saturday and sunday,

but i've been very grateful for the fact that i have wonderful sons handy to me and a daughter in new hampshire who has been a boon to me. i'm very grateful for the help of my children. it may be a burden on them. i'm sure in many ways it is, but i don't hear about it. >> how often do you talk to your daughter in new hampshire? >> well, i really grew up in two communities. i had a grandmother in new hampshire who had a stroke in her 60s and she lived. she could not speak very well, but she lived at home and my mother went up to new hampshire in june every year after school was done, and took care of her or helped take care of her because she was in a wheelchair and completely unable to do anything for herself. in fact, i never really got to

know her, because she wouldn't talk very much. she would sas very beloved by h family. i have many pictures of her in her wheelchair surrounded by her family. there wasn't such a thing as meals on wheels at that time. generally there were people, and in new hampshire, many country people, because this was in the white mountains, the village in the white mountains, so i really had two residences growing up. it was a wonderful, wonderful experience. >> to the other members of the panel, what is your principal recommendation to us as we go about reauthorizing oaa? mr. richtman, would you like to give us your opinion? >> mrs. marshall? >> i'm sorry. my hearing is not all it should

be. >> thank you. i was addressing this to the other three members of the panel, your principal recommendation for reauthorization? >> i think, as i mentioned in the testimony, it's, we feel, very important that the committee take into account ways to improve coordination of services, to identify the best practices, things that work in local communities and make sure that all of the agencies involved have the resources to replicate these best practices around the country. and if i could, mr. chairman, to follow up on the question you asked about home delivered meals, maybe i hope this isn't presumptuous, but i could give this as a recommendation. you mentioned that i have i was staff director of this committee in the '80s and i was involved in previous reauthorizations.

there was a member of this committee who was, shall we say, cynical about the older americans act activities and one of the nutrition service providers from that senator's state arranged to take that member of the senate to deliver meals on a truck, deliver meals and the reaction that the senator had when he met people that had no other way to get a hot meal or have any interaction with anybody turned him around. he became a strong advocate for the program. i guess i would recommend some firsthand experience by members of the committee with some of these programs. >> that's very good. mrs. bruemmer? >> thank you. i think it's really important that our vulnerable residents in

long term care facilities have access to our ombudsman services which i addressed in my testimony. we have so many people living in long term care facility that is don't have family. it's important that the ombudsman who is their advocate be able to express their best interest. secondly, i think we all know and you recently had a wonderful hearing on elder abuse. it is occurring in our world unfortunately. it's our duty to protect our most vulnerable people we serve. it would be wonderful if we could get additional supports of funding to provide training and prevention. we talk about prevention frequently. it does make a considerable difference if we can educate people on how to prevent. we provide prevention services in nursing home and assisted living to staff, and it has a positive impact to the people they serve and supporting the national ombudsman resource center, which really benefits our wonderful residents that we serve. thank you. >> mr. howell? what's your principal

recommendation? >> i would suggest looking for partnerships and funding opportunities that can be a one time investment for the government and then maybe those programs could sustain themselves over time through private pay, and then also, i would like to say that through the single point of entry system, we need more case management from the providers at the time that the help is being asked for. people go through many questions to get into the enrollment process, at least i know in the state of tennessee they do. they get asked those questions several different times. i think we need a system to where once you are asked those questions once, it is shared amongst the service providers and the case managers and the mcos so you don't have to going back and keep asking that elderly person again and again, what is your income and what is the help you need. i know we're going to do an

intake and we ask does that person have a pet, and i don't need to second that person who has cat allergies. if they smoke, i can't send someone whoasthma. we have to help that person stay in their home if we don't get the information we need. shared information among everyone and look for partnerships so that program that is can sustain themselves over time. >> thank you very much, mr. howell. senator corcoran? >> thank you, mr. chairman and ms. marshall, thank you for being here. you said you hope you weren't a burden for your children or grand children. i know that's not the case. i'm sure you're a blessing. there's probably a whole line of people in your community who would be willing to adopt you if they felt that was the case. we thank you for being here and

putting a face on the issue that all of us care about. thank you very much. mr. richtman, i know as director of the committee and the national committee to preserve social security and medicare, you've been very critical of legislation i've offered to get spending back to historic norms over the next decade. i understand that's the world we live in today. also, it seems you've been very resistant to changes to medicare that might make it sustainable. there are a lot of people in this town that know medicare is going to be insolvent or bankrupt in the year 2024, there's no getting around that. cbo even says about 2020. i'm one dering if y'all have put forth your own innovations or changes to cause medicare to be solvent and to cause it to be there for seniors down the road? >> well, of course, this isn't the subject of this hearing, but i will respond.

i think the legislation you're talking about is the one you authored with senator mckas kel, is t rrect? .. some of the process that that legislation deals with will lead to dramatic cuts in the programs that we advocate. it will do it in a way that a more indirect way that may be politically is easier but nevertheless the impact would be the same. on medicare, you're right, we were in opposition to the bill that was defeated yesterday in the senate. passed the house. we feel that chairman ryan's proposal to deal with medicare

in effect eliminates the program. turns it into something entirely different. >> that really wasn't what i ask. i understand that. i've read some of the things you've said about that. my question is have you offered your own solution since i mean putting our head in the sand would mean that future wonderful people like mrs. marshall would not be able to benefit from the program. >> i was going to get around to that. we supported the affordable care act which has some very significant improvements in medicare. and -- >> even with the affordable care act, it's insolvent in the year 2024. i'm trying to ask -- >> well, the affordable -- were it not for the affordable care act, the medicare program would be insolvents much earlier than 2025 which is the date that the trustees have issued. it's true that the date of

insolvency went back four or five years from previous -- >> closer to today. >> closer to today. a lot of that has to do with the recession, less revenue coming into the program. >> mr. richtman, are you going to answer my question? >> i'm trying to, senator. >> i wish you would just get to it. have you offered solutions to the program? i haven't heard -- instead of sand bagging people that are, have you offered solutions? >> our solution which i was trying to explain included the affordable care act. that is a very positive improvement of medicare. added 12 years. i would say that's a pretty good solution. added 12 years to the solvency of the program. added benefits for seniors that they did not have before such as preventive care with any out of pocket costs. i offer that as a solution. i think it's becoming more and more popular.

>> it's very disappointing, someone in your position would stone wall a situation so important as this. let me ask you this. chairman kohl and i have both been very fortunate in life. he far more than me. >> me too. >> would you agree that it would be an appropriate thing for folks like mr. kohl and myself to have minimal, if almost no benefit, in other words, medicare would be more based on ability to pay, where we would have to pay far more for the benefits of medicare than someone like -- someone else who might not be as fortunate? would you agree that would be at least a portion of a solution even though that would not solve it? would that be something that your organization would support? >> no, we would not. the reason, you're talking about, i assume, means testing.

>> that's exactly right. >> we are opposed to means testing for medicare and social security. i'll tell you why. these programs, all the polling shows that they are tremendously popular because they're insurance programs. people pay into them while they're working and they get the benefits. means testing these programs turns these programs into welfare. that's what welfare is. a means tested program. i've said this at many events that i participated in. if you ask a group of seniors how many of you are on social security, how many of you are on medicare, and usually at my meetings, they all are. you say how many of you are ashamed to be on these programs? nobody is. if you ask them, would you be proud to be on welfare, they wouldn't. i think turning these programs

into welfare programs which is what means testing does puts them in a different category and the support almost tremendous majority support for these programs would dissipate. we're opposed to that. >> well, portions of medicare already are means tested. what i hear you saying is you're more interested in generational theft. >> that's not fair, senator. most of the surveys we've done. we just did one with selinda lake. our members who are almost all on the program, they are just as concerned that these programs be there for their children and their grand children. i feel that we reflect that. i take issue with the charge that we're interested in that kind of generational warfare. >> i'm very disappointed that you've offered no real

solutions. but i look forward to talking with you in another venue on that. mr. howell, thank you for traveling up here. i notice on the other hand, your organization does have a sliding scale ability to pay. you found something that as being very useful. i wonder if you would describe that in a little more detail. >> i would be glad to. when our board set up the nonprofit in 1970, they wanted to be able to help everyone who came for assistance to the agency. so the sliding scale fee was one good way to do that. we have found many benefits from that. one of them being if we are going to united way and asking them for funds and let's say they appropriate to us in knox county somewhere around $120,000 and we provide help to a person over here and they are able to pay $7 an hour. that help cost us somewhere around 18 or $19 an hour, we really only have to come up with

another $11 per hour to get that funding. what that does is allows that money to be stretched out further and help more people. we don't usually have a waiting list for services. if someone calls me, i can usually get the help out to them as quickly as they need it. i think that telephone call is important because it's saying i've given up my ability to do something in my life, so now i need help. will you come do that? we don't have to put them on a waiting list to do so. we can be there and help them. i also think in a lot of ways it makes us more accountable because those people are paying for that service. that sliding scale fee has increased over time. even if they're paying $7 an hour to a person in their 80s or 90s, that's a lot of money for maid service or getting them transportation or helping them go grocery shopping. that is a lot of money to them. i think some of our proudest

moments is when we get a check issued from someone and it's for $28. that's for service but thank you. how many people write thank you on the bottom of their checks when they pay their bills. they do that because we're keeping them in their homes. i think the sliding scale system has been a great system for the people we serve. >> thank you. has there been any stigma attached to that, as mr. richtman just alluded to? >> in the services that we provide, no, sir. i don't know of any stigma attached to that. we do help people qualified for the government programs. they are in those and the government is paying for those. we help those who have the ability to pay the full fee. our caregiver may go to the home of a very wealthy person one day and a very poor person the next day. we train them to treat them with the same dignity and provide the same service to them.

>> thank you very much for being here. i look forward to the rest of your testimony. thank you. >> thank you very much, senator corker. senator casey? >> thank you, mr. chairman. what i'll do for the record is submit questions for mr. howell, ms. bruemmer and max richtman because i have a constituent on the left there, the former mayor of york and i wanted to speak directly to her for a few moments, you three don't mind, i hope. i'm grateful and i appreciate all of your testimony and the work that you do. i've known max richtman for a long time and i appreciate his advocacy for many years on behalf of older citizens. i did want to direct my maybe just a comment or two, mayor. first of all, once a mayor, always a mayor. we appreciate your public service to the city of york. being a mayor, being a member of city council at any time is a

difficult job and we appreciate what you did and what you continue to do for the community in york and for your testimony today. i was struck by a couple of lines in your testimony which, in some ways, really summarized or encapsulated what we're talking about today, the older americans act. i was looking at your testimony, the last page of your testimony when you say, and i'm quoting "many recipients of services are like me, they just need one or two little bits of help." a pretty good summary of what a lot of people need. sometimes it varies. then you go on to say, and i'm quoting again, just a line or two beyond that, "the act is flexible that way and allows the senior to customize their care plan to just what they need to stay healthy." we can often talk and talk in

this town in describing legislation paragraph after paragraph. rarely do we have a witness who's able to sum it up very directly. and with the personal experience that you've brought to this, you've been able to, through your testimony today and i know in other ways, bring to life and be, in a sense, bear witness to the benefits of these services. we're greatly appreciative of that, because you didn't have to do that. you could have just lived with the benefit of these services, but to travel here and to bring your story and your witness to this is very, very important. we're truly grateful. i know that the whole audience fell in love with you today. i don't think anyone who knows you was surprised by that, but we especially appreciate your testimony and your public service. i guess the last thing i would

say is, again quoting you. you say a paragraph later, "the beauty of the older americans act is that it allows you to retain your dignity, health and independence." you have defined independence. we're grateful that you're willing to share your story with us today. if i can think of an intelligent question, i'll write it down and send it to you, but i think you answered most of our questions through your testimony and through your personal witness. thank you very much. >> thank you so much. >> thank you senator, casey. i have also one last question for you, mrs. marshall. might you consider making a comeback in politics and running for mayor? >> well, i have been active in a grass roots group and i helped to rejuvenate the democratic

party because i'm a roosevelt democrat. i think i have always felt that when people needed help, they should have some programs that help them, and it just shouldn't be such a matter of who has wealth and who hasn't. human life is precious. >> thank you. well, we thank all of you for being here today. this has been very important to us as we continue with the reauthorization of oaa. you've made an effort to be here today. it's important and you've made a big contribution. thank you so much. thank you all for being here. >> thank you. >> thank you.

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>> the crew of the space shuttle endeavour and the international space station held a joint press conference thursday. the endeavor is in the middle of its final mission. it will be retired to a museum in los angeles following its a commissioning. this news briefing is 25 minutes. endeavour this is js api hill. how do you hear me? >> we have you laughing clear. >> good to see you run in the rest of the current web are restaurants here in houston.

>> hi, this is robert pearlman with collect space.com with a question for mark kelly. this is of course the final flight of space shuttle endeavour but it is coming just before the 40th anniversary of another spacecraft named endeavor flying to the moon on apollo 15 and while rover is making its way to a greater opportunity and mars. with that in mind how would you place your mission and the missions of space shuttle endeavour into the larger context of humanities-based declaration endeavors? >> there is also a ship going around australia right now commemorating the ship endeavour that is one of the first voyages to circumnavigate australia, so it is pretty significant. the space shuttle has been a workhouse -- workhorse of the space graham for 30 years now and it is an incredible success. we have never built anything that can do with the space shuttle can do, carry the tremendous mass to orbit and bring stuff back and do

spacewalks, robotic operations. it is what literally built the station. so retire the space shuttle is pretty significant. the last flight is bittersweet, but i think it is time that we move on and do something equally exciting, build a new vehicle and maybe go to to -- new destinations. >> thanks and for mike, you will soon hold the record for the most time in space by u.s. astronaut but by the all-time list you will rank i believe 20th behind 19 russian cosmonauts. as her long as lungs traveled space explore and experience crewmember do you feel there is a value to extending the length of individual crewmembers iss expeditions for preparation for going further out into the solar system? >> that is a great question. it is certainly an honor to get a chance to fly up in space

especially for long periods of time, and they think any records that are happening now, even the greatest on the russian side of 804 days, that is all going to be long forgotten when humans really start to explore the solar system especially with some of the new vehicles that nasa's going to come up with. so, i think in preparation for that, six months at a time seems to be what seems to be working out for the space station. anything longer than that will be a little bit tougher but i think we can live up here relatively indefinitely. a year mission is not out of the question aboard the space station. at the a lot more interesting spending a year going to mars however. >> a question for -- the prime operator of the smr was a challenging robotic task. [inaudible]

>> well, i will tell you what, the coppola was everything that i had have heard from other people times 10. it is a magnificent view. you have a view of literally half of the space station operating from the coppola. some of the robotic opposite we did on the epa two didn't even need any cameras. you could look out the window. a lot of the robotic ups we are doing on this mission are located on the other side of the station. for example when we installed a msn ail t-3 so advantage of the coppola was not as apparent as far as looking out the window but just as a place to be in a place to operate the robotic arm, it was a wonderful, and it is a wonderful wonderful place to be. >> thank you. a question for the --

[inaudible] what are the major differences and what were they most exciting moments. >> thank you. that is a good question and a tough one to answer. i can tell you each were challenging and i can tell you now after three days of being outside, i'm pretty worn out and my hands are very tired as well. i don't know that i would be ready to go out tomorrow like mike and greg are going to. but the differences of of courss that hubble is very close to our airlock and we don't have to travel far to the payload bay to reach him perform the tasks. of course with the station we traverse over long distances and especially in the dark. is very easy to get a little bit disoriented and sometimes lost and i know i went the wrong way a few times at least briefly

trying to understand really where i was headed. so, but the work is challenging. unfortunately the station was built to be serviced by astronauts. hubble was not built really that way although we have are formed many servicing missions to it. so the tasks are just a challenging and i worked just as hard and i think harder with all the activities we had and we are happy to be done with three successful space walks in looking forward to the fourth. >> thank you. on this mission me who executed two of your three planning dates what other advantages and disadvantages of each space suit are easier to execute -- [inaudible] >> that is a great question. i've had the privilege of being in the russian suit and i like it very much. the or lawn is pressurized to about six pounds per-square-inch

or .4 atmospheres. is a very serviceable suit and we don't have to spend a long time getting ready. good time is relatively short. the american suit is more mobile because it runs at a lower pressure, but that means we have a long pre-brief time it takes a longer time to get ready. over for post-its are great for what they do and it is great to go out in space and go on a space law but every space what we have been on is really tough. space walks are not easy at all. >> hi, i'm janice with space.com. a question for mark kelly. the past two days have included big announcements for deep space expiration and i was curious as to what your reaction was to the announcement. >> we didn't see -- we don't have a lot of time to look at a lot of news here. we did get the announcement on

the multipurpose crew vehicle that lockheed-martin originally was orion and now that the site is going to be used to hopefully one day come back to the space station and do some other things. we are pretty excited about it. within the space, within the astronaut office, i worked over i and stuff before and was assigned to the sts 134. i think it is a good vehicle. it is a good design and hopefully folks from our office will be flying it one day. >> and a question for ron garan. what is it been like living on the space station with the construction pretty well complete and also before dmitri, katie left was it like being on the station with it pretty full house? >> well, i was here three years ago and it was a big place then and it is an even bigger place now. it is a wonderful place to live and work. is a wonderful perspective we have on the planet up here.

the science we are doing on board, i think is really going to make a big difference on the earth. when i was here last time we were just getting the science going and it is really starting to ramp up now. we have got world-class laboratories throughout the complex here that are really going to i think make some breakthroughs. really, this is a tremendous investment in the future of our planet in the future of humanity and it really needs to be a part of that. to see all these years of construction finally, the result of that come to fruition is really nice. >> mark perrault for aviation leak. i have a question for the shuttle crew. i'm wondering how much professional responsibility, even pressure, you feel to do while you can to place the space station in the best possible footing before the shuttle retires?

>> that is a very good question and it very much is a big part of our mission. this is the last flight really before the station is considered complete. much of what we have appear, we are bringing logistics but we have installed external spare equipment during this mission and the whole point of that is to make sure that there is longevity for the station for many years to come. hopefully in 22020 and will be on. without the shuttle, as mark mentioned earlier, is very hard to bring things up that will go externally and bring things down. there will be possibly the spacewalk from the airlock in the station, but the servicing the space station is going to be more difficult. although we do have vehicles from other countries, atv and hdv and progress for supply, bringing things down that are not working to figure out how to

repair them or how to improve them will be a little more difficult. but this is very important, and it is really the point of everything we are doing now is try to make sure the space station is well-positioned to handle a full crew of six in an able us to do this science it is designed to do that will carry us forward. >> hi, bill harwood of cbs news and greg you can keep the mic. i'll ask you this question. we are talking the other day about how to spend 27 years since the space station program was approved and i remember talking to bill shepard in the '90s about the uva and the concern about doing his. you guys are getting ready to do the last shuttle as assembly comes down. can somebody reflect on how far nasa has come and developing the cba capability that you have used to build the station? >> well, that is a good point that you have made, and

certainly being able to perform spacewalk is critical to the life of the space station. we see that on every shuttle mission and many and many of the station expedition set up in here, the requirement. if we did have that capability, the station certainly would not be able to last as long as we planned plan for it to last. also, think the capabilities to do space walks has something to do with certification longer than with the original plans are set to be able to maintain that, that is just a part of life to work and live in space. we will eyes have isaf to have the ability to put our hands onto objects and we have certainly seen that on i can reflect back on the hubble space telescope would never classes of long as it has nor would a lesson to future without the assistance of humans in the loop with tools in their hands going out to perform the work. number one, many of those those tasks are critical and have to be performed in very short order. it is to have the capability right now with robotics or other

devices. any other capability to get out there and get the work done. the space what is critical in the ability to get outside and do the work is important. on the last eva for ep3 we tested out a new protocol which allows us to have sort of a normal morning, spend less time on oxygen mask and be able to get outside without the additional preplanning that we have had in the past that required camping out in the airlock overnight to reduce pressure. the capabilities are important for longevity of the space station and folks back at the centers on earth have been working to advance as capabilities and make -- expediter abilities you get outside and do the work we need to do when it is required. >> let me ask mike about a related question. on friday you are going to go for 1000 hours on eva time during assembly of our iss are more than 40 days which is either incredibly, an incredible milestone and maybe just a

trivial milestone. i don't know, how do you look at that, the hours of eva time? thanks. >> 1000 hours, that is pretty impressive. in fact we had concerns when we were first designing the space station of how much time eva time it would take. at that point we weren't as experienced with eva. the shuttle program pave the way with some of the earlier epa getting our extravehicular mobility up and running and then getting it to really shine. some of the tools and techniques that came along for space station building are very helpful. this dance we did at hubble space telescope, we use some of those tools to this day for the space station. we have come a long way with space walking and we have learned a lot from our russian partners and they have learned a lot from us. the new suits that we have and the capabilities allow us to do longer spacewalks.

don't think anybody 10, 20 or 30 years would have imagined we would have so many eight hour spacewalks even like the one we had just this week. >> chris baltimore with reuters. question for commander kelly or perhaps mike garan. spring boarding off a question about the shuttle fleet. time asleep and we are using quite a bit a capability i'm wondering what your assessment is in terms of what the space shuttle is ready to make this transition and if there are concerns about the kinds of capabilities that will be in the toolbox in future years? >> i think you mean the retirement of this bay shuttle and the transition to the museum. if that is what you are referring to what will be a little bit more difficult. atv progress and hdv provide certain capability. is not with the space shuttle can do.

i can't bring anything home that you can reuse, so it is going to be, it will be a challenge. it will be a logistical challenge for the folks that manage the space station program but they planned ahead. we will be able to handle it and we are going to have a very capable space station and the crews on board are going to be able to contribute in a robust science program. so, it is planned to work out and i think it will. >> endeavour iss this is houston h.r.. please stand by for voice check from ksc p.o.. >> endeavour iss this is ksc p.o.. how do you hear me? >> we got aloud and clear. how do you hear us? >> loud and clear.

>> the "associated press," could i start with you commander kelly? i know you have been chatting with phone -- by phone with your wife daily and i was wondering if you the chance to video, terror theater or are those in what days you have left in your mission? >> the plan is to do that tomorrow as a matter fact. so i plan to do it from the cupola and give her a chance to look outside, look at the space shuttle, and the space shuttle. that is an incredible view to see endeavour sitting with a plan at just below its pal. you can see it is pretty close and i'm looking forward to talking to her. i've been speaking with her every night before a go to bed. it is her morning. it would be nice to do a video and be able to see how she is doing it for her to join us on board the space station for a little bit. >> how long of an extension do expect that to be and is there going to be a special treat for you to see her post surgery with

the repairs to her skull? >> well i think she still has bandages on, so you know i haven't really thought about what to expect. the amount of time is, think it is 20 or 30 minutes those things typically are. hopefully it will be in a day pass so i can show her some neat views of the earth. >> thank you are going that it would like to ask the shuttle crewmembers their thoughts, their reflections on space shuttle endeavour mac's the flight is almost over. there are just a couple of days left for the flight for endeavour. what are your thoughts when you take a moment to pause and think about that? >> i have spent quite a lot of time before going to sleep looking out of the cupola with

the robotic arm deployed. this is my first opportunity to fly on the shuttle and i need to say it is a great machine. i am very pleased and it has been a unique experience for me to be here. >> todd halverson of florida today for i don't know, one of the american guys. you guys are on the cusp of being able to declare victory complete on the uso s. and i am i'm wondering if you could write this accomplishment and where it stands in the history of human engineering achievements?

>> are absolutely right. we have one more eva that is going to leave the boom from the shuttle behind that can be used for helping us reach different parts of the space station robotically if needed later. we have party installed a palette of external spare equipment but our department most significant was the spectrometer. this is an amazing scientific incheon meant that really has the possibility of making discoveries about the nature of our universe. so this is really fascinating and the really big contribution i think to the space station. the space station itself, you know it is unbelievable. it is a million pounds of modules and hardware and scientific equipment and laboratories. we have 12 people appear. the last soyuz crew just left. it is an amazing busy place with

round the world operations, control centers and i think the things that are going to be done up here over the next several years are really going to push us far into the future. it is really our doorstep to the future and exploring the rest of the solar system and beyond. it is something we really should be proud of. not just americans but americans and russians and all of europe and canada and all our international partners. it is really an amazing -- japan. it is going to be a terrific next decade. we are all working together towards the future. >> thanks very much for that. i wanted to ask mark kelly about the upcoming atmospheric re-entry and landing. this is going to be a night landing and i think it might be your first night landing. i'm wondering what you think the challenges are going to be and

if you could kind of give us an idea of what do you think it will be like? thanks. >> well, the biggest challenges it is going to be dark. night landings, the fact that you don't have a horizon out the window could be a little bit more of a challenge but these are mostly instrument approaches. they really are. we fly the equivalent of what an ils would be in an airplane. it is a much deeper life scope, about 20 degrees instead of two or three degrees, but we fly the approach they exactly the same. we have some very right lights on the runway so once you get down below about 100 or 50 feet it is almost like the time they are when you get very close to the ground. i've got a lot of night landing over about 100 on an aircraft carrier. those are challenges too -- challenging too. i look forward to it.

>> endeavour iss, that concludes questions from the kennedy space center. please stand by for a follow-up question from the johnson space center. >> hi, this is robert pearlman with a question for ron garan. the shuttle crew brought up with them lego sets as part of an educational outreach approach and i know katie coleman was "trained by her son unplugged with the expectation she would be building them. how are your lego building skills and what do hope kids watching and perhaps even building a long will take away from the experience? >> well, education outreach is a big part of what we do at nasa. just that we are in space and the amazing things very doing in space are very inspiring. one as a kid i was inspired by the space graham and as far as the legos go, think my lego

skills are pretty good. but we have a lot different methods of education outreach. that is one of them and you know i think that is one of the reasons why we have the space station is to inspire the next generation. >> fill one more time with a question for one of the russian guys if i can, for commander borisenko. you have been up there for a while and i wonder what your impression of life in the space station is and how you are enjoying it so far? >> translator: are like here on the station is a life that is filled with work. we are on duty 24/7.

even when we are sleep, asleep, we are always ready, we are always ready to quickly respond to whatever situation that may occur. this has been the first -- this has been the first spaceflight on such an important vehicle. such an important vehicle on the space station is really hard to maintain by the capabilities of just the two folks, so the folks that are waiting for is here previous increment took tickets from zero cycle all the way through the elements of handover so we are not working anymore and the station has become our

homes. we are here to welcome and be happy for any guess that may come to visit and we are here to share their experiences and also extend hours to them. we appreciate that.

the war powers act is a 1973 law which requires the president to get approval from congress for any military actions which lasts more than 60 days. that deadline for military operations in libya came last week. a resolution in support of the libyan mission has been introduced in the senate. in this hearing, the house foreign affairs committee hears from three republican congressmen who have introduced

separate bills on war powers in libya. thisthis is an r. and a half. >> after the ranking member and i make your opening remarks, committee members will have the opportunity to make two-minute statements before we hear from today's distinguished panelists. that is distinguished except for mr. rennie of florida. without objection members including today's panelists may have up to five days to insert statements into the record and the chair will recognize herself. we meet today as part of our continuing oversight of the united united states involvement in libya to hear from our non-committee colleagues who have introduced legislation on war powers and on authorities relating to the use of force to address the situation in libya. the committee will continue our efforts tomorrow morning at the house white members breaking with legal experts. that briefing had to be rescheduled for may 122 to the

avalanche of house floor votes. as we have reviewed before, the president commends u.s. military operations inside libya on march 19 and notified congress within 48 hours consistent with the war powers resolution. we announced operations limited in their nature, duration and scope as part of an international effort quote to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe and address the threat posed by -- posed to international peace and security by the crisis in libya, it end quote. the frustration claim that approval was not constitutionally required in the use of force in libya was constitutional because the president quote, could reasonably determined that such use of force was in the national interest and end quote. and extremely rod claim of warmaking power.

even some who regard the presence of action as legal are concerned that the endorsement by the arab league, the united nations and nato seem to figure more prominently in his justifications than duke clearly identified u.s. national security interest. sense of presence suffocation nato-led airstrikes to libya have been inflicted serious damage on gadhafi's war machine yet loyalists troops continued to demonstrate cohesiveness and operational superiority over rebel forces. last friday, concurrent with the 60-day deadline under the war powers resolution the president sent a new letter to congress stating that the u.s. role in libya operations have become more limited end quote and consist of and i'm quoting here and non-kinetic support to the nato-led operation, airstrikes in support of the no-fly zone and since april 23 precision strikes by unmanned aerial

vehicles. the president also expressed support for a bipartisan senate resolution introduced monday by senators kerry and mccain and five others. that measure expresses a sense of the senate and to hoard of quote the limited use of military force by the united states in libya as part of the nato mission and boat and calls on the president to submit to congress a detailed description of u.s. policy objectives and plans in libya. it is not a formal authorization for the use of force from libya pursuant to the war powers resolution. the measures introduced by today's panelists would take a more congress centered approach to the libyan campaign. mr. rennie's resolution house concurrent resolution 32 expresses a sense of congress that the president should obtain statutory authorization for the use of force pursuant to the war powers resolution. the bill introduced by mr. amash

would cut off h.r. 1212, what cut off funding for the use of force in libya until it is authorized by congress and mr. gibson's bill, h.r. 1609, would revise the war powers resolution, replacing its current congressional procedures with a shorter provision tied more directly to congress's power of the purse. regardless of where one comes down on war powers issues and whether the administration requires express authority to continue its limited engagement in libya, we can all agree that the administration must address certain critical questions that congress and this committee have been asking for weeks. what are the specific goals and should teach again games that our armed forces are pursuing in libya? are we willing to accept any role for gadhafi in libya's future?

who exactly are the armed rebels and the transitional national council, and what safeguards are in place to ensure any u.s. assistance does not fall into the hands of those working against u.s. national security interest. two weeks ago this committee favorably reported a resolution of inquiry seeking information from the department of state. we will press for answers from the administration at the classified interagency briefing for members that we have scheduled for tomorrow afternoon. i want to tank for panelists for taking the time to be here today. ibook forward to our discussion and i'm now pleased to yield to my good friend, the ranking member mr. berman or his opening remarks this morning. thank you. >> thank you very much. it is good to be your good friend. i don't know if mr. rennie still is. [laughter] thank you madam chairman. the president commends combat

operations in libya to prevent a humanitarian catastrophe at the hands of gadhafi's forces. there was bipartisan support for this effort and i believe the president prevented mass loss of life through decisive use of force. i continue to believe the mission is relevant and necessary. gadhafi must be removed in order for libya to have a chance to transition to humane governments and democracy. its indiscriminate use of force against the civilians underscores the importance of the u.n. resolution that provides the basis for the nato action. for these reasons, i support the draft senate resolution introduced by senators mccain and kerry which expresses support for the limited use of force in libya. i believe efforts to either terminate funding for this effort for force an immediate withdrawal of forces would

reverse the disastrous effects of a very meaningful progress already made in libya. it is time to end this stalemate in decisively and that can be stopped -- that can't be done by stopping now. i would like to give the president limited time to pursue this mission. to do otherwise would be once again to invite a horrible massacre of libyan civilians. underlying it is a central legal question. the war powers resolution acknowledges the president may introduce forces unilaterally for a period of period of up to 60 days. that may not the what the constitution originally envisioned or consistent with a strict reading of congressional authority, but it is what congress by the terms of that war powers act presumed and in effect they were amplified by

that provision of the constitution. the courts of course have not been willing to get into this dispute between the executive and the congressional powers in this area. now that the 60 days has arrived, we must evaluated the specifics of ongoing combat operations to determine whether activity still meet the war powers act standard of -- thereby necessitating a formal authorization for the use of force. this is a threshold question. when the administration commenced operations on march the president on ambiguously to my way of thinking introduced forces into hostilities. the u.s. was directly striking targets in libya, providing intelligence support and deploying access off the coast of libya. is this still the case? the president has transferred

control of this operation should nato and the u.s. involvement is more limited than it was before. there is a fascinating article in today's "new york times" that lays out some of the specific aspects we are still involved in. the threshold question for us here is whether u.s. armed forces have slipped below the threshold of hostilities obviating the need for congressional action? a couple of days i thought we might have. as they read this "new york times" article and get more information on what we are doing now. and much less sure of that conclusion. we can't argue theory here. we need to take a close look at exactly what the president is doing in order to evaluate the war powers resolution threshold for termination. for example, one could argue that periodic drone strikes do not constitute introducing

forces and hostilities. since the strikes are infrequent there are no boots on the ground. simultaneously to continue in sustained targeting of a foreign country, regardless of the weapon system, we might well make the resolutions definition of introducing armed forces into hostilities. there are no no black-and-white answers here and i look forward to our witnesses views on these complex questions. so, i do want to say i read the testimony of our three colleagues, legislation and they are opposed to this and they are raising fundamental questions. before we get too quick about railing about the executive branch, we have to look at ourselves and come to terms with what we are willing to do to exercise the authorities and the constitution gave us. we have the power within this

institution to make that effort, to have an academic discussion of attacking the president whether he is exceeding his article to powers when we are willing to exercise our article i powers is a funny approach to take. with that, i yield back and i thank the chairman for calling this hearing. >> thank you very much mr. berman. mr. gallegly of california is recognized for two minutes. >> in the interest of time i would yield. >> thank you. mr. manzullo, subcommittee on asia and pacific chairman is recognized for two minutes. >> thank you. might be concerned as the president apparently is following the lead of nato, the arab league and the u.n. to the exclusion of the united states congress believing if he can get the blessings of one or more of those organizations, he doesn't need the imprimatur or even any input from the elected representatives of this country.

what is bothersome is boots on the ground is not the task. drones in the air can wipe out a lot more than boots on the ground and what is particularly bothersome is the day that secretary clinton announced a 20 million-dollar nonlethal humanitarian aid stressing that no weapons were given to the opposition to gadhafi. the very next day the president announced he was sending in the drones. this is ridiculous. more people have been killed in syria than all the other nations together that are involved in a air of uprising of this spring and yet still with the sanctions against syria, it is nothing compared to what the president has decided to do unilaterally with regard to libya. so i commend the three of you and i'm looking for any and all solutions