czechoslovakia, it was 10 hours in--10 days in roma--10--10 days in east berlin and east germany and 10 hours in romania. and you could be there as a reporter for all that whole last rush to the end, and that was an extraordinary feeling. it was exciting to be in berlin when the wall came down, but for me, in many ways, i don't--i've never talked to todd about this. for me, in many ways it was more exciting to be in prague. i'd gone to see havel in--you know, in the charter 77 days, and i remember the people in wenceslas square in prague. they took their house keys out, and they rang them. the bell was tolling for the end ..

and he was very forthcoming after a while because he trusted me and he hadn't been talked about it before. in the short term interview, if you know what you're looking for from the subject and you want them in essence to put a piece of cement then you're satisfied when you said. c-span: to you have a favorite saying in this book? >> i actually do. the opening paragraph of chapter 2, which we did first, which is the beginning of world

war i of hong. >> i could find it but whether or not i could do it in a minute is another matter. >> christmas eve 19144 months and 22 days into the conflict the world had known him a handful of german infantrymen of the 101st regiment began

correct shaking your hand as though you are trying to smash their fingers and then a few days later. c-span: thank you very much. >> the redesigned website features over 800 notable nonfiction authors, interviewed about their books. there you can view the programs, transcripts and use the searchable database and find links to the author blogs, website, facebook pages and feeds, booknotes stored with a brand new look and feel, a helpful research tool and a great way to watch and enjoy the authors and their books.

[applause] the >> in the evening, everybody.

i'm senior political correspondent at mgm used with to esteemed colleagues from the media, jeff margolin, who made his name at the ledger in this state that is now "the new york post" and ted sherman who continues to make his name at the ledgers and most recently did a series commissioned which may not mean a whole lot to people down here but it sure meant a lot to chris christi. [laughter] because he went after it and sort of turned upside down. about 100 people fell out and haven't gotten back up yet. which is what this book is somewhat about is the downfall in number of people who were not expecting to be taken down and have all or many going to prison as a result and whose lives have been ruined, and you all

remember i'm sure what triggered this book was the incident this book is all about. the bus on a day in july, 2009 political figures may be in -- manly in northern new jersey and rabbis from the shore from brooklyn to come from the orthodox community. these guys decided to write a book about that case, and i want to start by asking them why. why did you write this book about this case? >> because nobody understood what happened, why it happened when it first happened in july 09. we were as close to it as anybody who wasn't handcuffed and frankly we didn't understand it. we come to the office on a muggy

july morning having been tipped off the night before that something big, quote on quote, was going to come down and in new jersey there was something big and there's always a rest and a corruption case, but my god, we are getting reports from colleagues at the fbi headquarters or in brooklyn and it's a dozen politicians. you have rabbis and their coats with their ritual fringes flowing, you have the deputy mayor of jersey city who shows up handcuffed 70-year-old wearing a low cut dress, what is this? >> a former burlesque queen. >> the only news we have is well put together jersey city deputy mayor and we hear that there is

an informant in the middle of it and the fed won't say who it is, and no one understands -- the first thing no one understands how it came together and then when you finally find out, when we finally found out what it was that tight everything together in these arrests we still didn't understand it. why would anybody come to take you back, why would anybody trust him? he had been arrested already on a 50 million-dollar bank fraud, i won't go through the details which are extraordinarily hilarious and stupid and said he had been arrested already, and people are laundering money as if somehow he is not wired by the fed. >> it's at the heart of this story. who would play him when they make the movie? [laughter] >> the whole story on the jersey stang is very cinematic and most

reporters when they are sitting in the courtroom waiting for a case to develop, will cast a movie just sitting there and we did the same thing. >> george to stanza. [laughter] [inaudible] [laughter] [laughter] >> what's most amazing is that solomon and his late 20s i guess, correct me if i am wrong, this whole thing got started when he went through a pnc bank in the county, went for the drive-through window and passed a bad check for $25 million. >> it was in a bad check it was 25 million-dollar check on a closed account. at the bank cashed it at the drive-through.

>> they didn't give him cash. what did they do? >> the the the 25 million into his account. >> once you deposit a check as a customer the funds are available immediately. >> within hours he transferred the money out and he tried to do it again. >> and he would go and do it again. [laughter] >> he was the son of a rabbi in the jewish community that has taken over the town and he had built a huge ponzi scheme, correct? >> that was solomon's secret life. he was known as a philanthropist and known as the son of a rabbi who was very successful body in properties all over the counties

and what nobody realized that the time is that it was all a ponzi scheme. he was a mini bernie madoff. he had investors promised returns come in and the way that he did that was she was buying the properties and getting mortgages for these properties and sometimes he was getting mortgages for properties he didn't own. sometimes he was getting mortgages and properties he said he was going to buy that he already bought, and this went on for years. >> the banks kind of look ridiculous in this book. >> yes they do. >> they don't do due diligence. >> [inaudible] [laughter] >> he said eventually he ends up in bankruptcy court and is to post about this and he said yes the banks did note due diligence and the excuse he gave them

normally was accepted. if a bank -- it was just astounding to us. if i don't pay my mortgage -- >> [inaudible] >> exactly. >> in the book you write ted just made the analogy to bernie madoff, but you wrote one point in the book although he was running a massive ponzi scheme, and i think that you say that he had built up three kendrick $10 million worth of debt at the point that he needs the 25 million to be somebody. you write that nonetheless of the people he victimized were not as angry as bernie madoff's victims were at him because you write he had a kind of charisma. >> he had a tremendous amount of charisma. it's not the charisma that is

born of the dashing good looking actor or public figure. he certainly is none of those. we are talking about a guy that is pudgy, balding, i am a pudgy and balding also but i don't like that, a movie star. still he manages to get people to believe in him to trust and have faith in him and at the root of his charisma is something that we all can understand from our own personal lives giving a whatever faith you might have. it's a simple phrase that he was the rabbi's son. and by being the rabbi's son, the cloak that he wore through noting of his own frankly to get an immediate integrity or where people felt even at the end she

is arrested and the scandal is beginning to come out day-by-day, revelation by revelation. the state judge on the case assigns a lawyer to be a special fiscal monitor to start unwrapping all of this. he meets with the individual victims', and one after another they still trust solomon. he wouldn't do anything wrong, he didn't mean it. >> these are all the victims of his ponzi scheme, not the victim's of his going undercover for the fbi. >> they have a different feeling about him. [laughter] >> and will show he's a different case because -- >> how much money did he swing from his uncle? >> $60 million. >> where did joe we get $60 million? >> is a very successful man in

the industry and like most of his investors he saw how successful solomon was in the real-estate business and asked his nephew to invest for him. >> it's important to understand and frankly it is a 300 page book and we can talk about it all night long until you are all board but we are not going to go through all of the step-by-step, but the bottom line is anybody and there are probably a number of lawyers in the room anybody that has any familiarity with the ocean county seem, the jewish community in and around the deal along the shore there's an understanding this hearing and community that has taken over and i'm not trying to about any individual community but to the community as a whole has made its mark in the garment industry which is an international industry wash and cash transaction. and among some outsiders for a long time associated with the

garment industry are doing the legal business because there is too much cash floating around and they are not properly reporting it. >> kunkel jolie is a garment bag that. he's by no means destitute afterwards. >> how did he get caught by the fed? >> he was running a ponzi scheme and like all ponzi schemes, it ran out of gas. he wasn't getting anyone to invest -- >> how many years? >> for years >> some of the loans were coming due and he didn't have the cash to come up with it, and he was working on one of last deal he thought he was going to get a lot of money from a news source.

he was telling investors that he had a deal to buy the golf course, which is on had developed land and would be worth a fortune had he been able to acquire it. as it turned out, it was another one of his scams he did approach them and he kept his various investors going with this on the assumption that the money was going to come in. >> was it the 25 million check that he cashed that coincided with his being called by the fed >> is that if the same time frame? >> no, that is what he was going to cover the bad check with.

>> he made a bridge loan and 25 million-dollar bridge loan. >> the interesting thing is he had done this before, not for $25 million but he would go to the bank all the time and cash a check. it would be insufficient funds and then a few days later the money would come in and everything would be okay, and pnc did an internal investigation because they saw the scheme going on back then and they decided he's always paid it back. there's no problem. he's in an industry where money flows back and forth. he is good for the cash. >> so the next morning he tries the second 25 million-dollar check scam. they catch him on that. the bank catches him and they don't negotiate the second 25 million. it is those $225 million checks that lead ultimately to the

county prosecutor's office and the fbi arrested. >> but not right away. because he was still in the scam. he kept on telling people he could make up the lost that money was going to be coming in and people still felt the golf course deal was a crime and pnc kept giving him the chance to pay it back and pay it back and meanwhile it was up to joe we to figure out what was going on by now and made him sign over all his properties. >> so how do we get from this set of facts to solomon going under cover for the u.s. attorney's office? >> he gets arrested finally come and he gets on to the u.s. district court and solve a grant coming out and now 50 million-dollar bank fraud facing 30 years in prison, and

that's how we come to the next part of the story. >> pick it up. >> facing 30 years in prison on a 50 million-dollar bank fraud she is in his mid to late 30's, for children with a fifth on the way, and he does not want to go to jail for that long, so he does what every other self respecting died is caught wants to do. he wants to roll over. but the problem is -- >> meanwhile this has all been publicized every report -- >> they had a big thing about how his in law had to put up their house to make bail for him and there was some great interaction between solomon and the magistrate judge. this is all wide-open, and in fact its chris christie at the time u.s. attorney is doing a

victory dance and the u.s. attorney's office, 50 million-dollar bank fraud is like winning the lottery for them it's a great case. their feeling was, you know what, punch his ticket he's going to the big house. 50 million-dollar bank fraud, put the press release out. this guy had nowhere to go this is the easiest case we are ever going to make no negotiation necessary. that's it. >> then what happens? >> and what happens is his attorney starts to make a point to enter into a cooperation agreement. >> christie is telling his associates to i really want to get into bed with this guy. she has no doubt that he knows more than just what they arrested him on but they don't trust him. >> so who convinces the u.s. attorney chris christi to give it a try and let it go

undercover for a while? >> it's the senior aides in the u.s. attorney's office and people in the fbi. but christi didn't realize is that for is of course of the previous number of years there had been a number of investigations and indictments that came down through the operations of cases. mayors, council members, engineers, one of the big engineering firms went belly up as a result. in the course of those investigations, the fed had her problems. when his name comes across the transcript of the u.s. attorney's office, the production process says ah-ha. he knows stuff we want to know. so, coincided with his willingness to rollover of his lawyer pounding away, the lawyer was literally on his call sheet for weeks and christi wouldn't take the calls. finally they give dwex a meeting

in the attorney's office and set up like a firing squad where the u.s. attorney's office are a breed around the table. the two lawyers come and hat in hand to try to make this place behind closed doors the corruption, he becomes a u.s. attorney after to christi leaves and was the top deputy. now, along with the corruption squad says to christi behind closed doors, look, we have nothing to lose here. if dwex gives more bad guys it's another victory dance. if he doesn't give us more bad guys we are still going to send him away for 30 years. it's a no lose situation, and christi as we are all starting to see now that he's governor, christi is a really, really strategic thinker. and he is all about the upside down side calculation. and this is an easy set for him because as he likes to say he is

at the tree all the time. if heads i win, tails or lose. either they get him and other bad guys or she goes away for 30 years. six months, that's the first bite. christie's is to the corruption dies >> we will review it then. >> so initially, i know from reading your book and by the way it is a wonderful book. it's a real page turner and its like you know everybody in the book but even if you don't i think it is pretty fascinating. >> you should start hanging out in prison. [laughter] >> for the first six months to a >> for the first six months to a year, he is really only producing money laundering in the orthodox jewish community. he is not coming up with any

politicians willing to take bribes, is that correct and why is that? >> he is running in circles. when they came and they promised that they knew a lot about money laundering, about political corruption and about other things. the problem was in terms of this case what he knew about political corruption in the county and of devotee new, so he couldn't wear a wire down there and try to get anybody on tape because they would have suspected it right away. but for some reason, the money laundering trusted him even though they knew the story not so much they trusted him they wanted to help him out. so initially the case focused around the money -- >> what did he tell the money launderers? >> he told them he was in bankruptcy which was true. he's got five kids, she's got a wife and they have to eat and how are we going to send the

kids and help are we going to pay for everything? can you help me get money out of the business? otas his real-estate business he had a real estate empire. >> the money laundering started the case he played on the sense of pity but other orthodox jews would have for one of their own. they knew that he was in trouble financially, and they knew that he had five children and wife to support, and so he knew that they were already in the money laundering. >> as the effort highest for the fed, yes, but why would the -- >> the word primarily connected with religious institutions. rabbis that were connected. >> primarily actually all had to be. that was the vehicle to launder the money. the money laundering was one of the simplest kind of crimes impossible to prove unless you have a call operator inside but it's basically a tax scam with

large. i take $100,000 for instance that may come from illegal sale and drug sale and what ever. take my $100,000 in the form of a check. i go to my local synagogue if i know the rabbi is laundering money. i write that 100,000-dollar check for the rabbi for the synagogue and give it to the malae. the rabbi would then turn it around and i would get $90,000 back in cash. so there are a number of crimes that have been committed. first of all, i'm going to take the full $100,000 charitable donation credit on my tax return. it is a huge flag in jail right away on that. it then you have the fact that there is -- the fact that we are in laundering money. he legal profits you're trying to hide from the government. in the case he would advertise that he is running an illegal handbag manufacturing and

distribution ring or sometimes he would advertise that he's trying to get money out of his bankrupt company without the trusty knowing about it, which is as the lawyers will say bankruptcy fraud, another big no-no in the federal system. >> but he kept describing these were illegal. >> he needed to do that because he needs the money launderers for the case in court. the money launderers need to not only actually launder the money they need to be aware actively that they are laundering illegal proceeds from an illegal transaction of some sort. and in fact it tightened up in the middle of the case three supreme court ruling and so there were actually some of the money-laundering recordings that have to be thrown out. >> let me stop you there. the recording. >> why wasn't it spotted?

>> it was very small. >> it was a video and an audio surveillance systems and as either a button on a shirt or something of that size, and what was interesting about the surveillance system is that when the reforms went in to meet as they would wear a recorder which they would may be put on the smaller of their back or something. it was about that small and hard to pick up sound, and what was interesting about it was that they had a hard time picking up sound in his diner's because of the ambient sounds and -- well, you know better than anybody else all businesses are

conducted and diners. [laughter] >> we are going through a diner tomorrow to a television show. [laughter] >> this open the bickel new world for the fbi with this new technology because in the years passed, the recordings were so bad that before a trial would even begin, the defense and prosecutors would argue over what exactly was said and they would have the transcript, and they would argue this with this, and it would go on for a long time. with of the technology that the employee in this case there was no question of who said what. you could hear everything very clearly no matter where they were at the table. >> maybe it is a button. >> it moves around. that's the other thing. it moves around. there are some days they have been wired up here. some days down here. the reason we are hedging a little bit is because this was probably the closest held secret

in all of those supporting the fed would give no information about the recording systems. they would talk about certain parts of the case but not the recordings, and we had to go directly to the fbi in washington with a series of pointed questions to get any information about this at all sunday is the wire him up here and some days down here. we know that because if you see that vantage point on some of the video footage sometimes it is like neck level and this afternoon ted and i were reviewing the deal before we can hit to right and it's at belt level. it moves around it is most likely a shirt button or like inside the middle of a shirt button something that might be able to be stuck inside of the little hole in a man's jacket lapel or be stuck in a button next to the car or something like that. >> how much cooperation did you get from the federal prosecutors? >> well, the nice thing for us and this is not a political

statement but the nice thing is governor christie won the election or the office because he was free to cooperate and to his credit than to help us out in the story he has an incredible case for detail as you know. and democrats would say it's storytelling. >> he has an incredible i for pertinent details of reporters need to be able to tell a narrative, so she gave a tremendous amount of cooperation. we received some cooperation from the fbi, they were gracious and walking us through the mechanics in a massive takeout. it wouldn't go to the investigation, the mechanics of the arrest. at one point in the reporting the current u.s. attorney actually put out an order that nobody was to cooperate with us anymore, and in fact he went to washington for the justice department and invoked his authority as the chief law

enforcement officer of the state devotee should help us out and so that julca thinks for a couple of days but then we got back into the game that people were talking about privately. >> the book is full of dialogue recorded on a little camera unwitting target to make themselves look foolish and venal. they don't like they are being reported, and this is as much a question i'm asking as a fellow reporter and maybe i am more interested in the answers of these people, but all of that dialogue suggests to me that the fed let you -- i know that what has been introduced at trial public record you can look at that, but will you answer the question were you able to see things that we haven't? >> yes. i will answer that question but i'm going to respond to another part of what you said in the

preamble to that. we were very fortunate in the reporting process that sources entrusted us with evidence that hadn't been on sealed. the judge had locked down everything on till one of the parties needs to enter it into evidence at trial which is a limited universe when you take into account that there are 3,000 specific meetings that were recorded. 3,000. the dvd turned sideways and up an entire wall in the u.s. attorney's office in the case was finally over. so a small fraction of that has been entered into evidence. we of sources will allow us access to and sealed material at their own professional apparel. the fed let us see it on but love to be about to respond to that directly for fear i might

outsource accidentally so let's just say he was insistent that nobody under his authority could cooperate with us. >> after a dozen money laundering rabbi types, the case shifts into the political realm sort of low-level operators and working up words >> it got all the way up to the government cabinet. >> by your right, it started a very low, and that is because it basically was a chain. he had to go from a person who knew the next person or the next person. >> he worked it is pretty feverishly, did he not? >> absolutely. >> every day. not only every day, but what we did at one point was we took all of the criminal complaints

hadn't been released and put it into a database and make ourselves a little chronological time line to see what he was doing, and it just at one point we are seeing that he is meeting five or six people on the same day going to brooklyn back-and-forth and back and forth. >> one day they were here in atlanta county and he started i think early afternoon with meetings and within a couple of hours it seems like the had gotten, pressed in the day she wanted jersey city having a meeting where he's getting another bad guy. >> i'm not going to talk about how fast by dr.. are there any copps in the room? [laughter] >> when he is dealing with the types -- when he is dealing with

political types come he adopts an alias. i'm stunned, he's gotten maybe 15 or 20 political people who fedex envelopes stuffed with $10,000 in cash before you write somebody google's david esen dhaka and there is no david esen dhaka, the other 15 or 20 didn't google him? >> they came to a book signing last weekend and this guy is really happy. when nothing is turned up he figured out -- this is close to the end but yes, it was extraordinary to us. that's why the book has a little bit of humor in it and -- >> a lot of humor. >> part of it is our commenting or analyzing various anecdotes because we have to put ourselves

into the reader's shoot a little bit which is something we can't do in the newspaper every day. we need to show you that yes, we can't believe this either, and we couldn't believe this at various points and so yes, dwex has brought more than 25 people into various bribery related political crimes on the case, and three days before the press are going to take place, finally the former president of the zoning board in guttenberg says he's talking weird and he complained i was talking weird none of what he's saying really makes any sense. trustees addition dhaka and its disclosure of little office in the hole in the wall in guttenberg and he google's him and find nothing and he says to himself and not going to that meeting tomorrow because remember at this point he has

put himself forward through the political types and the kind of guy that has a gulfstream waiting, the kind of guy that can buy 600 mobile exxon gas stations in one transaction. the kind of guy who just jets around the world and puts up and would put up authority story building. and nobody ever questioned him. so he says if this guy is who he says he is and i can't find one or reference to him on google. [inaudible] >> and he took more than he was even charged with and also went back for more.

>> he took cash in a fedex envelope for his campaign, is that the same thing as taking it for your pocket this former burlesque queen who is now in the 70's she took money but it was for the mayor's campaign of which he was the treasurer. >> to my way of thinking that is a little less venal than taking it to put in your bank account. >> in the jersey staying we don't hold ourselves out as scholars of the jewish law or authority is of jewish law or federal criminal statutes and readers and the distinction you're drawling. the law doesn't draw that.

but he was doing is he actually was putting money into the pocket. >> i'm not familiar enough with the local politics here in atlanta county, and in hutchison county you have this proliferation in the have nonpartisan elections they become free for those in the communities, the bigger communities. in hudson county is more of a free-for-all and that. and it winds up for a number of different reasons becoming very expensive carolina was in a very expensive political environment. three council members each with big followings running in hoboken for the mayor's office for a vacant may your spot. he wasn't seeking reelection so we have this free fall as i said. if nobody has a clear majority,

you have a runoff election for three or four weeks later between the two top vote getters. he squeaks by come he gets into a runoff, so now he has won a really expensive crazy election and domestic and expense of crazy election and he starts emptying his bank account. he starts writing all sorts of checks out of his pocket to cover expenses. he starts writing so many checks on his campaign account at first he runs out of money to cover the checks then he runs out of checks. he literally ran out of checks and the checkbook to pastry workers to put him over the top. and in the end he wins by, and sorry i don't have a number committed to memory but a small handful of votes, 100 or 200 in the city of hoboken, and so the money that he is taking in the bride is at least hour to cover his own expenses that he had. checks he had that he couldn't

cash. >> you save a lot distinguished. i once had a conversation when he was the u.s. attorney and somebody i don't remember who maybe it was jim, the county executive who had also taken some money for the campaign and i said is a different when it's for the campaign and the pocket and absolutely not, it is all for your self aggrandizement what it is to enhance your stature in the community. >> within 24 hours of the arrest comes of this is july 24, 2009, he hires one of the highest profile attorneys in new jersey, joe haydon, who represents jayson williams and a number of other high-profile clients. within 24 hours of the arrest she is out there spending the story or spinning the defense. he has to understand it's not for peter it's for the campaign, and so i take that back. you know they go to one side of

the street and go to the other side and a comment so why take that back and the fed starts laughing at me on the phone. good to try with that defense, great. >> to members of the state assembly, they are in snare in a number of officials in jersey city, how many mayors? three mayors, a bunch of deputy mayors and operatives. 43 people in all our roundup on the morning of july 23rd, 2009, which is right in the midst of the governor's race. fer chris christi who had resigned in early january of that year or maybe it was in

early december of that year. and he announced in early february he and he was going to run for governor. so there are a lot of people who think that the timing of the culmination of this two or three year stang had a political paid to it or political motive behind it i know we are not going to answer that question definitively that one of the arguments on either side since this is politically motivated somehow? >> the arguments against it, one of the arguments against it would be that of the head of the special prosecutions was a man by the name of jimmy in the attorney's office. if anything like that were going on on his watch he would probably arrest himself. that is how ethical he views

these things and in fact it affected the case because he actually was -- he accused himself a week before the arrest came down because he got a job proposal just before the job and his absence in the case affected a lot of what went wrong with the case later on. >> i noticed at the end of the but you have him back in the u.s. attorney's office. did he leave and come back? >> he just left the case. when we started the process of researching and writing the jersey stan, it was november 09, shortly after the governor's e. election. soviet rest happens in july of online and christie wins the first week november 09. we start the process the end of november of 09 and finish seven months later. ted and i had any investigative piece in the newspaper, we had

no idea where the story was going to take. we knew the beginning and the ending because obviously it happens. it's not an awful but we didn't know where the road was going to take us along the way. we did know whether there were certain questions we need to tackle. one of them was the politics. we needed to at least be able to get to a point where of understanding the timing of the best. >> and for that he heard them and in fact the accusations continue as you read through the book you still see that there are some legal gingrey hostility not from governor karzai and interesting but he didn't believe it was political but. but other people do, so this been for lack of a better term was the fed's four be held in and they all got promoted and they all loved christie and the

time this in the middle of the election because this would highlight christie's background as the corruption of the super prosecutor and what makes the election about that and about christie's corruption history or fighting history more than about anything else, and in the process of what damage the democratic party because the corruption in new jersey the hit republicans but the really hit democrats. that's the spin. just basically if you see that the ground is wet outside it must have dreamed. >> and joe -- former speaker of the assembly prominent democrat who had joined course 95 cabinet as the commissioner of the community affairs and who did or did not get a raw deal out of this whole thing. >> we don't answer the question intentionally and we are glad that we are not required to answer that question because it

really is a matter of perspective and we laid out exactly what happens, but at the time he was a member of the governor's cabinet, he was not arrested or charged but the home and office were searched. it turns out that one of the dead men had advertised the he was on the take and had gotten him to pass him $40,000 in marked money and he advertised she would then pass it off to joe doria. there's never been proved that joe doria took the money even though some of it is missing doria has never been charged and the fed says the case continues, but the element of christie being brought in is the good point that you raise that that adds to that democrat pro course lined skin that this was all done to damage course on because -- >> the media was very present at doria's helm and the community in trenton when they were being searched. >> so the courts find people say that it must be that the fed is

and christie people to talk to reporters because they were all there. that is a fallacy. let me tell you this. every news to -- news room has either scanners or pager services to find out what's going on with the police. joe doria's house was a circuit protecting the seen as teams of fbi agents swarmed the house even if reporters hadn't been tipped, and i know i personally wasn't even if they had been -- >> if you weren't maybe nobody was. >> it would have taken five minutes for the jersey journal and the new york star-ledger which is only five minutes away to get the watch the search and the search went on all day. keep going. >> so the christie sedan to this a, the federal government doesn't work this way, we don't conspire to damaged candidates or campaigns. the cases are taken down when they are taken down, and this

case was basically an armed invasion of the mature area with more than 300 fbi and irs agents plus a dozen prosecutors. >> you don't do that on a whim on the politically on the calendar and the most overarching piece of evidence, the pro christi and pro u.s. attorney's office people say you need to go inside where why it was time that way and what was going on in the investigation, will get the investigation and so in the jersey staying we actually dissect the investigation to be able to explain exactly what was happening. >> one of the things you point out is a federal judge in trenton who was overseeing the bankruptcy was pounding on the u.s. attorney's office to wrap this up so that she could do what? >> in the bankruptcy case the creditors in the case want to oppose and the u.s. attorney's

office kept on trying to put that off because once he was deposed everything would come out because he couldn't lie to, so there was that pressure. >> what other pressures were there to do when they did it would suggest it wasn't at all political? >> the pressure of the fact there was a new u.s. attorney coming in, paul fishkind, and nobody knew what was going to happen when he did come in so there was some internals pushed to get the case done before he came into office. >> that is political but it's not corvine christie political. >> you would write and i have heard before an unwritten rule in the u.s. attorney's office if you don't do a political unrest or indictment within 60 days of an election with. >> that's the practice here in new jersey. >> this was about 70 days.

>> this goes into what was said about paul fishman. in the u.s. attorney's office you have all these competing pressures right now. take yourself back in time to july of a one - the bankruptcy judge said there will be no more continuances or delay. he's being deposed, i'm sorry, i know that you were the u.s. attorney but i don't care. she literally says that to him. she calls and to the office in trenton like the principal's office and then on top of that, he knows that his window is inclosing and he could be confirmed at any moment. he wants the case to be done under his watch like anybody would but more importantly, fishman, and he tells this on the record in the book, but fishman is at the very least a conscientious and thoughtful guy. he's not going to come in one day and then say yes, sure, go arrest everybody tomorrow. he's going to want to press call and review the documents or some of the evidence. he might decide to do the arrest, he might not decide to

do the rest, but the cause of have put them within the 60-day window before the election and mara wouldn't allow that. >> was the clock ticking on his cover being blown? >> there was fear that the cover was going to be blown because he was always going beyond what he was supposed to be doing. >> how so? >> he was scripted to all the time he was scripted. >> the fbi rehearsed him. >> that he never followed the script. there were times when he would go to a politician and he would tell them i'm not a member of the democratic party or the republican party i am a member of the green party, get it, the green, like cash and they would look at him and go yeah, okay. that wasn't in the script. the fbi is looking at this after it came back to the office who just like shaking their heads.

this guy is a loaded cannon and there was legitimate fear in the office that at some point he was going to blow it. >> so i can see a pretty good case for the christie point of view that this was -- that these were external non-political forces that caused this to happen. but when it happened -- and by the way, we are going to open this up to you all for questions about five minutes. when it happened, you write, john karzai and knew he was going to lose the election the. you also write something i never heard before that nine months earlier all of his aides told him he was going to win this -- lewis said he shouldn't run but he didn't agree. >> it was probably for me as a political reporter one of the most remarkable series of interviews i have ever conducted. i mean, i have had the honor of

covering governors, but to get this deep inside to find out exactly what had gone on which is so contradictory to everything we are trained to see as political reporters the rule in politics is both guys, women, whatever, say they are going to win. they believe their with their heart i'm going to win because this and the other guy says the same thing and come election night someone who loses. that is not the case here. the course i walked into this election into the campaign in 2009 he was the only vallese hirsh of his inner circle who thought he even had a fighting chance. >> what point, january february? >> i don't remember the exact time in the book there are two critical meetings that occur as the business managers luxury apartment in manhattan. one meeting i think is around the time of the conventions and 08, in august, september and

forgive me if that is off, he know. but what happens is the gathering and go around the table and everybody is unanimous he can win. it would be tough, we are going to probably face christie come he is a blue state and it's going to be okay and the governor has got a limited resources and john corzine is a great guy and people have affinity for him. come shortly after that we have the economic collapse which is a big deal but it's especially a big deal for john corzine because of who he was before he governor, goldman sachs. he also, really the polls were falling like a rock. he had months and months of bad news so when they reconvene december and january, and around the table again. to the person they all say do not run this race he will lose.

>> it's funny because there's a wonderful story and the new jersey political about brandenburg's in 1977 at around the same time after he created the state income tax and all of his advisers said you're going to lose except for one, john, his attorney general who would become his attorney general in the second term who said i think you can win the election and of course we know brendan byrne did but a similar kind of pow-wow, burn wasn't convinced he could win but -- >> av as ecology of john corzine and christie giving considerable access to the research here governor corzine get trend this time and access and assistance, he provided people from the staff to help answer questions about times and dates and places, and we give them credit in the book and politics aside for a second, they gave a level

of access to detail and kampf text that doesn't necessarily preserve a flattering picture of either one of them 100% that they were both very helpful for this process. corzine is a guy that believes in himself completely even when no one else believes in him. you know that, there are people in the room that have worked for him or with him and he just had a blind stayed in his own ability that people trust me because i'm trustworthy and i am a good guide and my heart is in the right place and i can do it and that's it. the polls said he was wrong and this is not in the book because we had to edit some stuff out he had a different posters and insisted on going to different pollsters because the gift giving bad news he would switch pollsters to try to get better news and they will tell him you're going to lose but he kept doing it and on some level just the pain it must have been for this man, everyone is thinking he's going to lose to run this but finally come july, 09, so

remember john corzine is a costly wealthy, has a beautiful place in the hoboken waterfront, beautifully appointed, you know, floor to ceiling view of the empire state building company slocan up by his eight and there are is in his very building in hoboken so they are doing address in his building. people he's shaken hands with, hugged and public, given the nation's two, he's woken up and told don't answer the phone. he gets up and he's standing in front of a flat screen tv with views of new york and is coming to the conclusion sickening in the pit of his stomach that it was and this is done. i've lost this race. these are my friends, these are my party members. ..

>> it seems like the feds were overzealous and once they got their teeth into it, they were not going to let go. did you come away with that impression at all? you obviously have seen a lot more evidence than i have, but some of them, just a few of them, it lookedded like they really probably, to me at least, weren't guilty. did you get that impression at all? >> well, they were talkers. they could spin a story, and he just, the feds' attorneys when they first saw some of the videos were just incredulous. he never shut up, and even when people tried to walk away, he never shut up. in the case of harvey smith who was acquitted finally, he was

saying very damming things on videotape. he said stop talking, stop talking. i feel like i ought to pat you down, and yet the jury saw the rest of the videotapes and came to the same conclusion, i guess, that you did that there was a lot of talking going on. >> but as you soften the end of the jersey sting, you actually do see not only some of the weaknesses the cases, but you actually see confusion and fighting inside the u.s. attorney's office. first of all, we had to finish the book and send it to the publisher before the other cases collapsed. we had five to get the acquittal into the epilogue, but there was one of the political defendants, richard greene, had all charges dismissed at the request of the u.s. attorney's office even. that's very unusual, and then smith was acquitted at trial, and our belief is that like

yours. some of the cases were very, very solid. in fact, maybe most of them. there were some instances where the fbi and u.s. attorney's office, their eyes were bigger than their symptom mas trying to -- stomach trying to run up the score, and they are paying the price now. >> if i can respond to your question, there's an element in their account of this case that's suggesting that the prosecutor's were involved in big game hunting. i think you use that phrase at some point or something close to it. it really comes across as a game for them, and the bigger the target, the better the score, the better they feel, and so i understand the basis of your question i guess is what i'm saying. yeah?

>> could you explain the situation that lou created or brought to court and the judge said that some charges should be dismissed because he was not a public official? >> the -- >> and also in connection with that the man in fort dicks prison also not officials. >> the situation is different than the other situation where some of the cases were bad. the u.s. attorney's office was acting when they charged manzo who were running but not in office working under the legal theory that the law regarding bribery of a public official applies to somebody running for that office so as if you were already in office by running for it. manz o decided whoafs going to fight that -- he was going to fight that. the law that stands bribery for a public official even if i am

running for public office. the judge overseeing the cases agreed with them. the judge in philadelphia agreed with the judge, and the u.s. attorney's office does not know what it's going to do. manzo was brought in on indicted charges and they will take him to trial, but the biggest charges he's facing may well get thrown out, but we don't know the end of that story yet. >> and the others? >> he was a public official running for office, but he was also a jersey city official. that doesn't apply. >> phil kenny was also a campaign treasurer for one of the other candidates. they basically -- if they have you in a government office, that's how they can use that law that way. the manzo thing is complicated. it happened. that's the other piece of this. remember the story with rude di and the -- rudy and after he left the

office of manhattan because they were flawed cases. the case is airtight. it's the law that's questionable right now. >> somebody else? wait a second, oh, yeah. >> we forgot. >> say is on the mic. >> everyone would like to hear about the body parts. [laughter] >> we forgot that aspect. >> probably the strangest element of the entire case and we didn't learn the truth about this until very late in the reporting process when for those of you who don't know about the body parts, there was an individual who was arrested for appropriating a human kidney, and this actually is the first case ever brought under u.s. law for brokering a human organ.

the law is so old, actually, it was written by a young congressman by the name of al gore, and it has never been tested in court, and in this particular case, the fbi agent posing as the secretary arranged for a transplant to occur using -- they were the fictitious uncle of the secretary. they never actually completed the transaction, but arranged for it. we didn't know how it fit into anything. it wasn't a political corruption angle or money laundering. how did they get involved in this? there was all sorts of speculation they used him because he was a member of the community and possibly he had an in there, but truth of the matter is we have found out later his own grandfather arranged for a kidney transplant

through this broker. he had nog of this and as long as they were there for the ride, they threw this in as well. >> in 2008 a kidney went for $160,000. >> not including installation. [laughter] >> not including installation. parts only, and labor? >> the donor only gets 10,000 of that. >> daniel van pelt was a young assemblyman, or i don't know how long he was, but a new assemblyman when he got caught up in it, but he too had a kidney problem and that might have been something he talked about? >> ted is the expert in this, but in is the great almost crashing his own investigation because it is in the kidney and

money laundering investigation. he morphs in the phone booth when he goes to meet the politician. he's meeting with daniel van pelt, the assembly man talking about bribes. >> then he starts talking about kidneys because daniel van pelt has a kidney problem, and he starts talking about his grandfather getting this kidney, and it gets this long song and dance in a diner one day about buying a kidney, but you can't mix the two cases because if you start going down this path, suddenly solomon comes face to face with dave essenbock, and it's not going to be pretty. [laughter] >> who else? here, and then up there. >> congratulations on this great book, you guys, it's fantastic. i'm curious, you are both writers. this this is different

experience writing a book? what's the difference of one -- it's more than just a long story with a word count, but is there a different process writing a book opposed to writing for newspapers? >> it was for me, but bear in mind we started this process writing for a newspaper. a lot of what we were writing appeared in the newspaper as news stories, and as we -- as the narrative of that grew, we decided to write a book. it was a different type of writing. typical newspaper writing is you're taught in journalism school it's an inverted pyramid with all the information on the top, and this story narrows down lower and lower to the point where people might stop reading after awhile. a book doesn't follow that -- that type of construction, and i don't know for both of us, it was kind of a new freedom for

us. >> ted and i have worked together for a number of years, did

i found it really, really fun and liberating because for sooming years we're used to a daily deadline. we're used to a set in count even if it's an important long story, you know you're not going to write 7,000 words on it. i mean, 7,000 words, you get into entire sections of newspapers. a long story in a newspaper is 2,000 words, an average story is 800 words. the book is 155,000 words, so which is double, by the way, of the what the original book deal called for, but that's a whole different time. so it was liberating. i found myself at two o'clock in the morning i could stay awake at the computer saying, man, you know what? i haven't written like this since college where i could write what i wanted to write and say what i wanted to say and add an extra clause into the

sentence without a maximum word length and no editor breathing down my back because we have a bar to go to so get us out of here. it was cool. [laughter] >> there was a wonderful rendering of the new jersey political life in the book. you both deserve a lot of credit for it. >> thank you. >> yeah? >> you said that 44 people were arrested. i was just curious if all 44 were tried in different cases, and if so, if there was a connection between them other than solomon. >> some of them -- well, first of all, there's only been a small number of trials and every one of the 44 is different, and the numbers change and there's weirdness to the numbers. we can go through the litany of numbers. 44 charminged, 43 arrested, one person vanished, believed to be a fugitive living in israel beyond the reach of american extradition. since then, additional people

arrested on charges associated with this, but were not rounded up the first day. most people that have gotten involved in the process, the criminal justice process, most of them have pleaded guilty. as of yesterday when the chief rabbi pleaded guilty, 26 have pleaded guilty. two have been acquitted at trial. three convicted at trial. some of these people will go to trial or would go to trial or were arrested in collective complaints or indictments. some were in single indictments. the rabbi yesterday was alone in a client. it's basically -- there's not a good logical rhyme or reason to it except that the feds tepid to rump people into the same complaint or indictment if they are all charged with the same crimes from the same instances of criminal activity so if you and i hold up the same liquor store, we're charged together,

but if ted and i hold up two different liquor stores, we're charged differently. that's what it is. the case has two tributaries. you have the bigger one with the more defendants on the political side. that's where there's david essenbock. the smaller side is the money laundering. you don't have any crossover. he's never -- he's never both people. just for obvious reasons. [laughter] >> josh, says that two people were acquitted. the first one acquitted was anthony and was shocked after all the guilty pleas and convictions in court that somebody had gotten off, and so it occurred to me he'd make a good guest on television. how did he beat the rest? he was the first -- >> first in ten years.

>> first in ten years to be acquitted of a chris christie public corruption charge. a week or two after the acquittal, i called him up, and we eventually hooked up, and i invited him to the show, and to my surprise, he said he would do it. his lawyer was one of the top defense lawyers in the state, michael crichly. i said maybe you want to come on with your lawyer? i called the lawyer, he didn't want any part of it, but he gave me 15 minutes on the phone, so the day of the interview arrived, and i was really primed. i had prepared and a very unassuming boy next door type from richfield in burgeon county came to the studio on time and said, by the way, i can't talk

about the case. [laughter] [laughter] i said, well, what are we doing here then? [laughter] i said, well, -- he said i can't talk about the solomon. i said what are you going to talk about? he said i'll tell you how i felt and the effect it had on my family. he heard about his kids and wife on that half hour. it was kind of a bust. >> two weeks ago tonight ted and i had a party at the hotel in new brunswick celebrating the launch of the new book, and governor christie who doesn't like missing a party, especially with a room of reporters, and mike made the rare appearance at the party, and it was funny because i happened to just be standing right there as chris lee is behind me and christie walks in, and the two of them are just yucking it up, and so

chris lee is saying something about i got the one, i got the one referring to the fact he got an acquittal in competition, and christie doesn't miss a beat saying you wouldn't have gotten it if i were still there. [laughter] yes? >> they pulled him as a cooperating witness. there are a few defendants remaining. as you pointed out, some may go to trials, others may not. what is the future of solomon for a cooperating witness for the government? >> we thought about this considerably. we don't believe the feds have fear of putting him on the stand. the vast story is he was beaten up pretty badly during chris lee in the case. for the next trial, the feds used another one of the bad guys who rolled over after getting arrested, a guy interestingly named ed cheatum. [laughter]

cheatum -- [laughter] you can't make it up if i wrote a book; right? [laughter] i told you. cheatum stood in for solomon. dwek is a bad witness. by definition all informants are bad witnesses. they would not be called rats otherwise. they are bad witnesses. the way is works, the government, the feds try to convince the jury don't believe the guy, believe the video. he's not a person in this case, he's just a vessel for carrying a camera. that's roughly what it is, and, of course, the defense lawyers try to rough up the informant saying how can you believe this guy? he's a crook. he's a criminal. he's a swindler. he turned on his own community and family. they're always flawed. what happened we think with smith is that dwek was beat up by chris lee. as we said the case was the weakest of the government's cases, and they benched dwek in

the hopes of mixing it up a little bit with cheatum. >> quite inaudible. >> michael chris lee had a field day with him taking him for a spin. there's no question about it, but in terms of the future of this case, it's really just a matter of the strong cases, and what the videos show, and especially as you start getting into the money laundering cases, and we don't want to sound like we take sides because we don't and we're happy not to, but we've seen the stuff and quote it at length in the book, and it's pretty ugly if you are hoping for an acquittal. you had yesterday -- i understand the scene yesterday in trenton, 79 years old, the chief rabbi of the serian jewish community, one the wealthiest enclaves of organized jewish life in the world, and he walks into plead guilty to a federal

felony. that's not because he was confident of an acquittal. >> and, in fact, two weeks ago dwek was going to testify in the trial of doug caldwell, and on the eve of the start of the trial, caldwell pleaded guilty. >> right. in fact, in the book we spend time on caldwell because it's a colorful character in politics, in the game for generations, and it was one of the stunning moments when he was arrested that day. everybody thought he was perceived as something who was always one step ahead of the law, and he was arrested fiebl -- finally. we forecasted what the defense would be, and it was a failing defense. solomon, i mean, i guess on the merits he's a bad guy. >> is solomon here tonight? >> yeah, that's always the question we ask at these

things. [laughter] >> on that note, and assuming solomon is not here, if you are here, you ought to ask him questions. [laughter] i want to thank you both very much, and thank you all for listening and participating. it's a very, very good read. i recommend it. >> thank you. [applause] >> for more information about this book and its authors, visit the jerseysting.com. hi, i'm susan collins, senator from maine. i've always been an avid reader. i have a book going on here at washington and one in maine as well, and the book i just finished is scott brown's memoir, my colleague, the

senator from massachusetts. this truly is an extraordinary book. it's very well written and moves right along, and it gets me -- gives me a lot of insights about scott brown and his very difficult childhood. it's amazing that he's accomplished as much as he has given what an impoverished and difficult childhood that he had. anyone who loves sports will love this book because in some ways it was coaches in basketball that really saved scott brown. a book that i'm reading right now is michael conley's the 5th witness. this is a series of books that involve a lawyer who largely practices law at the back of his car, his lincoln. they are often known as the lincoln lawyer series. it's great fun and moves right along, and it's a nice break

from all my briefing books to read this right before i go to bed. this summer, i'm going to read my first e-book. now, i realize probably everybody else has been reading e-books for years, but this is my first one, and the run that i purchased is cutting for stone. it's supposed to be a tear risk book, and i'm looking forwards to reading it. it also has the advantage that it can travel with me very easily, and timely, i'm looking forward this summer to reading david brookes new book called "the social animal". i think david brooks is absolutely brilliant, and i'm looking forward to learning more about his insights. i understand from talking to him that he did a great deal of research on the brain, gathering together many, many studies, and i think it's going to be a very compelling book. >> tell us what you're reading

this summer. send us a tweet at booktv. >> c-span's local content vehicles in partnership with tampa st. petersburg area networks traveling around the area to look at the literary scene. tampa st. petersburg is the first of eight cities we'll feature now through the end of the year. >> first interested in topic of the move ya because i grew up in new jersey. that should be self-explanatory, but in the early 1990s, i started going online. actually i found a bob historian, david chris lee from england, that i collected a great deal of information on organized crime and he had info on tampa. i contacted him, and i have not heard much about organized crime in tampa. i didn't know anything about it. i started reading fascinating stories of political corruption,

wide open gambling, and i'm like this might be a good idea for a book. i started doing more research and built on it, and the first book took awhile to get the information because tampa is a small city, and the guys i wrote about, a lot of people are still in the neighborhoods and grew up here. it was a really interesting topic to me, and the more i dug into it, the more i found this fascinating subculture of the underworld in tampa and how it was connected to the mofia in chicago, new york city, and new jersey. tampa was off the radar because it was for a long time a small city, not a big metropolis like new york or boston. you didn't have the flashy gang steers that you had up there, and really these were small pockets. these were, you know, familied and organized crime groups with 20-40 guys. another reason is because the gambling going on at the time was really engrained into the community. it was not seen as being a

terrible vice, so i think a combination of those factors, but certainly a guy who was the mofia boss here from the early 1950s through 1987, he was certainly known outside the tampa area, and i think in terms of name recognition, he's one of the more recognizable mobsters in american history. one of the unique things about tampa's organized crime history is the mofia itself is a strictly italian organization and have to be sicilian to get in the mofia, but there were guys in the organized crime that was spanish, white, and cue babe who were influ enissue. it's an mixture that you didn't have in any other city. closest parallel was new orleans, but tampa has a unique mix to the underworld here that was unparalleled anywhere else in the united states at that time, and that really served it

as organized crime figures from tampa and moving to cuba in the pre-castro days with interesting casinos down there because these guys might not have had a high school education, but fluent in italian, spanish, and english and had street smarts and could function in cuba where guys in new york and chicago didn't have that. >> now on tv, the prize awards and panel discussion with isabel wilkerson and alex tizon commished in 1998, the luksa prize -- lukas prize features the best writing in nonfiction. it's just over an hour. [applause] >> hi, everybody, and welcome to the journalism school and to the lukas and lynton prizes. as this is of the myriad prizes given out at the school,