laden raid. >> guest: i would like to know that. i don't have a need to know about that yet. it sounds like it would be a great place to fly those helicopters. >> host: of the technology is developed there if this is a variation about the aircraft if it was the question about teflon and the space program has gotten out into the commercial world that all or fish just developed it is so secret? what is develop their stays there? >> guest: that is an interesting question. i haven't heard of any commercial applications. it tends to be military and based on espionage. . .

something to that was supposed to be camouflage that instead made the plane over heat. >> host: and ports only we are reaching the point in our program where there is temporarily one last question. something kind of open-ended. was there one particular story that you found the most shocking or surprising of the things that you learned about area 51? >> guest: you know, everything that was told to me was very ornate and interesting, and i think all circled back to allow me to create the puzzle, so to speak.

all these individual pieces that in and of themselves were fascinating to understand the broader, bigger picture of area 51 was what i found the most rewarding possibly at the end of this step back and say, this makes sense. this is why it's secret. this is what went on, even though i probably only know a small fraction of it. winston churchill once said about -- and he was speaking about russia. he said, it is an enigma wrapped inside of a puzzle wrapped inside of a rebel. he could have been speaking about area 51. >> host: our thanks to annie jacobsen, author of the new book area 51. >> this event was hosted by the commonwealth club of california in sentences go. for more information visit commonwealth club at dot work.

>> we would like to hear from you. it's tweeting us your feedback. twitter dot com / book tv. >> next on book tv, military historian jonathan jordan presents a biography of generals dwight eisenhower, george patton, and omar bradley during world war ii. the others was the personal and working relationships of the three men, all graduates of west point, who were equally friends and opponents. it is a little under an hour. [inaudible conversations] >> good evening, ladies and gentlemen. welcome to the national world war two museum. it is a pleasure to see such a packed house tonight. i can tell that you are all in for a good show after having spent the day with tonight's speaker and having read most of the book. don't tell him i have not read all of it yet, but most of the book. we are pleased here to have

c-span that wanted to come down and fell in mr. jordan's presentation. we have had a nice relationship with them over the years and it's great that not only will our members across the world be able to view this on our website, but also c-span will be airing this, hopefully, sen. tonight's speaker, jonathan jordan toy is the author of the award winning book, lone star navy, tex. the fight for the gulf of mexico and the shipping of the american west. some of you may have led one to many, or all of his writings on the second world war, personalities, battles command weapons which have appeared in publications such as were were to magazine if, armchair general, military history and magazine, in its youth, so on and so forth. a contributing offered to the book the armed care reader, world war ii, and the armchair reader the amazing book of world history. he is also the editor of the library of texas' addition to the people of texas.

mr. jordan is the son of an air force pilot and vietnam veteran. he grew up on military bases throughout the country, ohio, new jersey, alabama, and also the philippine islands. one would think with all his writings, historical writings, his full time job is as a historian, but mr. jordan is actually a practicing attorney out of atlanta, georgia. we are pleased to have him here at the national world war two museum in new orleans. ladies and gentlemen, please give a warm welcome to the author of "brothers, rivals, victors." mr. jonathan jordan. [applause] >> thanks a lot. thank you very much, jeremy, for that kind introduction. thanks to the national world war two museum for allowing me to come out for a few minutes and

share some more stories about three of america's most impressive soldiers. the title of the book is "brothers, rivals, victors". and that title, those the words are about the only part of the book that were not revised, cut out, stop, taken out, put back in, sliced, diced, and excise to set up a pen to paper back in 2006. the reason that the title alone survived five years of editorial bloodletting is because those the words, brothers, rivals, victors, to me it sums up a partnership of three american generals who produced one of the most extraordinary results in our nation's history. so with that, i would like to spend a few minutes sharing some stories about the brotherhood, the rivalry, and ultimately the victory in western europe that was eisenhower, bradley, and

patton. now, the brotherhood began almost a century ago this summer in august of 1911 at the unit is its military academy in west point, new york. it began when a young cadets from abilene, kan., who, for all practical purposes, had never left the state of kansas before. he met another young cadets from missouri who, for all practical purposes had never left there. well, the cadet, dwight eisenhower, universally known as a bike, santa omar bradley, known more familiarly as brad, they became fast friends. now, while west point was designed to instill marshall qualities and bring out the military sciences and their students, neither right nor brad were particularly militant back in those days. eisenhower was the notorious

will braker, particularly when they concerned cigarettes or curfews. pratt, for his part, was a good solid soldier. he actually out ranked ike by the time they graduated from west point, but he was not the kind of guy who was a standout in either a crowd or classroom. he was just a quiet guy. well, while these two cadets did not stand out in the classroom or even sometimes in a crowd, they did stand out in one place where they could fight their battles on feels a grass. the love of sports was what brought them together and forge a relationship that would last until the end of their days. as a young man the sport for ike was football. a solid defensive crackled -- tackle who cracked helmets occasionally with jim thorpe. and above average plunging back which nowadays we would call a running back. until he injured his knee in a football play, football was the

passion for ike. even after the injury derails his sports career and nearly his military career, he had to ask the doctor to certify him with sticks and talking. eisenhower left football. he participated as a cheerleader before his graduation. shortly after graduating he still worked as a small-town football coach. it was this football coaching mentality that would affect his ledger style of management when it was more than just a game mistake. bread enjoyed the ball and played with eisenhower, but his passion was not on the gridiron, it was on the diamond. he had of rocket throw of an arm. for a while omar bradley held the west point record for longest baseball perot. he had a mean curveball. his senior year he batted 383. that's is a very respectable

number that think a professional team nowadays, including new orleans would certainly value. well, there was another thing that brought the two young men together. another trait that they shared in common that occurred after graduation. it was that they would miss the great board, the war to end all wars, the war in europe, so many of their classmates got to fight in. this was a war that brought promotion, just full of medals, experience and reputation, to those men in uniform who were fortunate enough to serve there. bradley's abridgment spent more time spread out from alaska to montana on guard duty. his regiment, the 14th infantry did not even get around to assembling to go over to france until just before the bells began to ring out in celebration of the armistice in europe. eisenhower spent the boar on the other side of the continent.

he made a name for himself as a trainer partly because he was such a good football coach. unfortunately that meant that the army, which like ike, did not want him butting the kaiser in europe. they wanted in training other men. so, eisenhower wrote out his days during the war to end all days at camp meade, md., a place where trained men fighting in the newfangled group, the army put together called the tank corps. well, the brotherhood group in 1919 after the first world war ended. lieutenant colonel eisenhower meant a hard-charging californian named c-span.org. patton had, until that time, a storybook career as an officer. he excelled in individual sports at this point like running and fencing. in fact, he represented the united states in the 1912 stockholm olympics in the modern

pentathlon. he was the army's master of hansard, a competent polo player, redesigned the armed cavalry, and faced pancho villa el around northern mexico. and when war came to america's shores and shipped overseas with general pershing and participated in two great battles. he was badly wounded in september of 1918. he was recovering from his wound on november the 11th of that year, a date that was doubly significant to patton, for it was his 301st birthday, and it was the day that his hopes for more battles, more military glory were dashed as germany capitulated to the allies. well, penn returned home in 1919 as, frankly, a depressed man while bradley and eisenhower at least paid lip service to the idea that they were glad the casualty list to come to an end. patton made no bones about it. he had seen his chance, his one

big chance for glory taken away from him. well, at camp meade, md., patten's hopes were revived when he met the young, optimistic lieutenant-colonel named ike who was commanding a tank battalion. the two men's love of these unreliable mechanical beasts was cementing there to the reference of the last almost to the end of their days. i can george, as they came to know each other, spent many a day experimenting firing in new weapons, coming up with combinations of man and machine and generally enjoying their inner war years with two young families. now, white and george or, in many ways, the odd couple. patton, you see, grew up in a rather isolated part of southern california. he had one sibling, a sister, and he came from a rather wealthy, and so a family. he was once called for a while and then went to private schools when he was a little older.

as a result, he grew up something of an introvert by which i mean a person here drew his energy from within, rather than other people. when patton needed to solve a problem he read, thought about it, parade, meditated, figured it out himself and then executed. he loved reading history and drew many inspiration's from historical figures of medieval and napoleonic times. ike eisenhower, by contrast to my crew up in a pretty large family, seven hungry strapping boys, no girls. he went to a big public school in abilene, kansas. all american. he learned to fight on the playground, learned when he should stand up for himself, but he also learned when he should cultivate allies, allies like his older brother. he learned how to relate, most importantly, to the man on the

street. his family was not especially pork, but when you have nine mouse to feed, money is always intent supply. he could certainly relate to the american middle class. well, by the end of their assignment to camp needed ike and george had become close, close personal friends. ike and his wife were frequent guests at the patton house, and the girls love to play together. but in 1920 the army broke up the tank corps. patton went back to the cavalry from whence he came, and ike went into the infantry to remain with the tanks a little while longer. well, the final side of the triangle dropped into place in the mid 1920's when colonel patton, stationed at the homeland division, organized a trapshooting team to the division. a young and none major named omar bradley showed up to try out. one of the army's great shots,

huntington see was a young child, a crack shot with the springfield rifle, and hit 23 out of 25 in a row. that was pretty impressive shooting, but standing and looking over his shoulder, panda tried to shoulders and said, that's fine. he'll do. they did not get off to an officious start. they feel that a pretty good team, but the fact was bradley have little in common with the wealthy polo playing circles that pen ran in. brad, you see, was a rather quiet and shy man by nature. he grew up on a small home in rural missouri. he was an only child, though he later had a stepbrother. his father, a country school teacher, died when bribe was only 14, leaving the family with no means of income other than the money bracket make by hunting small game and his mother taking on borders. -add injury to insult, when he

was 17 bride was involved in a skating accident that smashed up his teeth and jaw. now, i don't know if any of us recall how secure are insecure we may have been when we were 17th, but a disfigured smile this not build confidence. his family could not possibly afford to get his teeth fixed. he went through his young adulthood ashamed of his smile. even after brad's teeth were replaced, he almost never wanted to show his teeth. if he ever smiled it was like in the book jacket, a tight-lipped grimace. the fact is he stifled the arts to laugh too loudly, never got a belly laugh, and never wanted to call attention to is features. moreover, he was not a real social lion. his wife was at the toes look who objected to the kind of bathtub gin and woods said year that george and ike bring up

during prohibition. brad was a simple man and had simple taste. he left his ice-cream, drink coca-cola by the case, and had food allergies that really limited him to a fairly unspectacular diet. put that reason he liked some of the social confidence of his peers, especially when in north africa, sicily, and northern europe he ran in the circles of the military elite, particularly the british do he found some have elegant, well educated, well mannered, and able to speak french officers. well, the early times, as we will see later, manifested themselves during the second world war. as you can see from some of the exhibits at the museum, the inner wore army, the united states field was very small. the u.s. had approximately the 17th largest army in the world behind bulgaria and belgium,

even behind switzerland and sweden. there were actually more guys running around with red parka signs and america had in uniform. so common in the group that's all the officers have plenty of time to get to know each other. so, just like general marshall or admiral king or even president roosevelt, when i was called to duty he began to look back to his early years, interwar years when the captain of the officers as people. eisenhower later told a classmate that he had a theory about how you judge a unit. he said, if you know the commander intimately he will be able to judge how that unit will act in a given situation. eisenhower was confident that he had a real fighter in george patton and with the combined chiefs of staff's order in him to make three landings might ask george to lead the landings at possible walkout on the event the coast. well, the landings were supposed

to be the most difficult of the invasion begins africa's surf on that side, particularly dangerous. but his luck held, and his landings were a success. months later after the americans took one on the chin and a little place called cancer in past he reached across the continent from tunisia, back to morocco, and asked his friend if george would take command of the americans fighting in tunisia. george, in turn, asked ito if he could have on our bradley as his deputy commander. with that, the brotherhood of west point, can't meet, and hawaii became america's true fighting teen. now, i suppose it was inevitable that when you have three headstrong talented guys like this eventually sparks were going to fly. these men ultimately started test not only get on each other's nerves a bit in the close quarters of fighting, but

eventually saw each other as rivals. now, it was a unique kind of rivalry because it was not one for power. it was not even a rivalry for rent or position because patton, eisenhower, and bradley of pretty much accepted the roles that the war department handed them. this was a rivalry for reputation, of rivalry for being right. it was a rivalry to show that their ideas and their methods were the best way to when the board. this was a rivalry of three men to prove that each was america's top soldier. one ingredient of this rivalry was their professional outlook to patent and army is a lot like the worst. a horse is a big, beautiful, strong animal. it also eats a lot. in a battlefield condition is vulnerable to enemy fire.

if you keep the horse standing in one place too long in a battle it will get no down. you better keep that horse running. well, patton felt an army was subject to the same roles. attack, attack, attack. that was his philosophy. now, his philosophy gave omar bradley fits for most of the sicilian campaign because brad thought that george was so wrapped up in attack, attack, attack that he never thought about the more mundane things, less dramatic things, logistics', how to get the gas and bullets and biscuits up to the men in the front. he never thought about things like safe and secure flanks to avoid being attacked from the side. asked brad saw it, george patton ran too many foolish risks and occasionally other man that he knew would have to pay the price for his brashness. bradley, by contrast, was a product of the infantry.

infantrymen, of course, does not have the tanks was to protect them, a horse's speed. bradley had a unique appreciation for the vulnerability of the human body and the fire. an infantryman can not run fast, and you have to be careful as a foot soldier. bradley took these lessons from the first world war and from his training to heart. he was careful most of the time and aggressive only when he thought the rewards justified the risks of being aggressive, breaking the rules. penn, unfortunately, used to claim that bradley in his court commanders were somewhat timid. well, the rivalry did not just start because of their general outlook of audacity first as prudence. it also extended to their methods. these guys just have different approaches. bradley's father was a schoolteacher, patton was a polo player, and those have two very different mindsets. here is how the book goes through the different thought

processes that bradley and pan have. tactics tom marr was a kind of mathematical problem solving. like this caller working in algebraic proved practic then known x and y factors, logistics' and intelligence, and used them to derive the field operations. if everyone did their job the course of events would fall into place naturally and predictably. the secret to his success, the engine of his genius was his ability to grasp all parts of the equation on a monstrous, moving battlefield and derive from them a plan in which the foot soldier could have confidence. patton, by contrast, would never think of putting his staff in the driver's seat and sitting back like a figurehead. it's driven by a sense of self aggrandizement and insatiable thirst for approval and an overpowering appealing of destiny, george invariably turned toward the offense. storage is outstanding

performance in pre-or maneuvers taught him that accepted doctrine of the army was a fine thing to follow until it conflicted with the requirements of victory. once that happened doctrine would invariably get the boot in favor of whatever worked. it was patens ability to look beyond the rules, that sixth sense built over years of study, experienced, and even prayer was what gave him his touch of genius. now, the third side of this triangle, of course, was eisenhower. eisenhower was trained to be a staff officer. his heart was with the infantry, just like bradley, but in the end he knew that his role in this great game would be to be the team's general manager. he would fire players, trade them to other teams. he did that to some generals that he did not like. he made the big calls. sometimes he would shift around his defense, sometimes subbing in a new player for offense.

eisenhower was a lot like bradley in his team out what, but he also knew that george patton was the type of individual is to you could also use profitably on the team. he could do a lot with a man like patton. as eisenhower told general marshall and the sicilian campaign, penn was an army commander his troops could not be stopped by ordinary obstacles. well, it is the friction by their philosophical alex and training and not been enough. the fact is bradley in patton particularly had styles that are diametrically opposed. they just could not clicked together and a personal level as well as they would have liked. now, we all know about patents filthy mouth. i mean, let's face it. he had a vocabulary that was meant for cavalrymen. he even taught his children to curse. long after the war eisenhower reminiscing on his old friend

said, george patton left to shock people. anything that popped into his mind probably came out of his mouth, especially if it was bizarre. he left to shake members of a social gathering by exploding a few rounds of outrageous profanity. he created in the effect it would indulge in more of the same. if no one paid any attention he would quiet down. the outcome of this was not something that just happened for a fact during the second world war. this was part of who he was. in 1919 when pan was on the boat coming back to america from returning from france his father wrote in an interesting letter where he warned him, the gift of gab that you have developed may get you into trouble. you are now 34 and a colonel. the dignity going with your rank, and that is what you say, more important. i hope in your speeches you will be careful and self restraint for your own good.

in the late 1930's and was the commander of the third cavalry regiment which was stationed outside of washington d.c. and, as the commander of that regiment patten would go out for horseback rides with the army's chief of staff, general george marshall and occasionally they would take someone like to ride with them. in the presence of politely as most of the other officers tended to be more circumspect, but not george. after one particular profanity laden tirade catherine turned to him and said to him in a way only women can get away with, george, you can't talk like that. you say these outrageous things and then you like me to see if i'm going to smile. you can do that if a captain or a major, but you at aspire to be a senior debt general commanded general cannot talk in such a warm light. none of that advice ever stuck.

socked -- shocker value or bluntness was just too he was. he knew it was a dangerous game. occasionally he would tell reporters attached to the third army in europe not to print things that he was saying about politics or the allied high command. he knew certain things that made their way into print would get in can't. he hated the press conferences that he had to do from time to time because he made so many cans during the war he never knew when his luck would run out and get him fired. well, in the end there was this clash about bradley disliked patent and did nothing but he was managing the seventh army in sicily which was the army that bradley's second corps reported to very well. so, to bradley, what sinden tons of small arms and munitions and keep the vital artillery rounds near the beaches. he would do irresponsible

things. the seventh army headquarters would forget to run communications. it might not keep the air services informed where the infantry was. bradley and patton also thought about tactics. bradley, in the end, to top it off, was a field commander who received a certain reporter at the end of august 1943 about patton having caused a ruckus in a field hospital that was under bradleys' control. it was just not another george patton problem. so during the spring of 1944 when brad and i were picking commanders for the overlord invasion bradley was tremendously unhappy when eisenhower selected george to lead the u.s. third army. the army that would come ashore under the 12th army group about a month after d-day. brad was so unhappy at this point in his life that even on the eve of the invasion as

bradley and his staff were sitting around the u.s. as augusta the night before the boats were supposed to go out, the man spent part of their time swapping their stories, all of which were cut it to to make pan look like a buffoon. but, during the summer of 1944 penh's army arrived in europe. inexplicably patton and bradley put aside whatever personal differences they had kamal ever stylistic differences that they had. it became pretty good friends, certainly get partners. patton happily did better brad told him to do. they had a few minor disagreements. they at least, on the surface, go along well. as in tunisia that began to work closely with each other, and it was not valid because they were doing well on the ground but because there was a certain measure of fear. that would be fear of the

british of all people. easy come ever since the sicilian campaign bradley and patton have all of the low bid slighted by the british. and this problem was exacerbated during august and september of 1944 when the allies basically ran out of gas. now, it wasn't that they did not have any gas. there was plenty. the problem was they could not get the gas from the normandy beaches up to the front-line because the allied air services before the invasion had fought the french rail network to smithereens. so, the guys on the front line were short of ammunition. there wasn't enough trucking to take everybody emi the needed. well, in came then field marshal bernard montgomery. the commander of the british forces and probably by this time one of the people in europe

aside from the be hitler who bradley disliked almost bar none bradley was concerned when he heard rumors that montgomery had this idea of how to win the war. he called it the narrow thrust. under the narrow thrust idea montgomery said, basically, give me some of bradley's armies and give me all of bradley's gasoline. tell brad and patent to sit on their rears further south, and i will go through the north part of europe. abcatoo holland, northern france, through the low countries and carry the union jack all the way to berlin. well, this, of course, would give the lion's share of credit to the british which was exactly what the patent and bradley were dead set against. eisenhower, as the team's manager, i have to of balance might to wings. he had to consider paton and

bradley who wanted to run into the southern part of europe into germany and try to win the war their way or at least keep themselves on the same basic line of advance as the british. in the end eisenhower strongly supported by patton and bradley decided that all of the allies would advance together. he called it the broad front approach, the same kind of approach that ulysses grant used against the confederates. all of the armies would lose side-by-side, steamrolled germans in their path and might not get to berlin as quickly, but would get there and hopefully with your casualties. well, the dispute over allocation of supply came to ahead in december of 1944 when hitler launched his quarter million man offensive out of the ardennes forest, a surprise attack. the americans came to call it the battle of the bulge. now, the boats, of course, was

just a term for what it looked like. here we have a map of the 12th u.s. army groups, the situation in late december. the bulge was actually a salient in the american lines. it was a smash hit by the nazis right into the middle of bradley's line, knocking the teeth out of his eighth court that was dead in the center and push the americans back almost to the river. now, that created a real problem per bradley because bradlees headquarters and pans army were stranded on the south side of the bulge. meanwhile, bradlees to other armies, the first and ninth or left on the north side where bradley could not efficiently communicate. well, what to do about that? eisenhower took a look at the problem and said, it is a moment of crisis. i have to do something about it.

i have two armies that cannot be effectively led by bradley. eisenhower did what was, to breath, the ultimate slap in the face, it took the two northern armies and given to montgomery. well, bradley, as you can imagine, did not take that well. to bradley by this time it was all about prestige. not about bradley's prestige, of course. he was not in it for him. he was in it for the american soldier. what was bad for brant was bad for the american soldier. so, bradley decided that this was the last straw. he put up with too much from the british, and he told eisenhower on december 20th, i resigned. well, fortunately for the allies eisenhower ignored his resignation, calmed him down, assured him that after they erased the bulge be would get his armies back. after a lightning attack by george patton in late december,

that is exactly what they did. eventually the armies made it across the rhine river and% for the last act in europe. well, by the end of april hiller was dead by the beginning of may the german army had capitulated. that was it. eisenhower's career was just beginning. eisenhower was appointed the u.s. army chief of staff succeeding general marshall, and he became effectively that ulysses s. grant of the second world war. bradley, meanwhile, sent to run the veterans administration, which she did very well. he would eventually succeed his friend eisenhower, as protector and mentor as the army's top general. well, patton, as predicted in a letter to his wife, would be a nuisance. he could not adjust to peacetime life, and his comments that he made here and they're about

being soft on the nazis and harden the communists eventually came back to haunt him. he was fired as commander of the third u.s. army by eisenhower. eisenhower did not want to do it, and pat never forgive eisenhower. well, in the end the three men won not only a victory in western europe but a lasting place in the consciousness of their countrymen. by 1942 there were approximately 1,000 general officers of the army's role. there were several hundred french -- flag grant ethel's. but of that, how many besides eisenhower, patton, and bradley to most people really remember. we remember douglas smith up -- macarthur and admiral chester nimitz. some may remember jimmy doolittle or vinegar joe still well. those who have walked around halls of the museum here probably see pictures of a diesel smith and other generals.

but it was eisenhower, the conqueror of europe, and his to lead horses. schools, silver dollars, and the roster of american president. these three men, we have said in our pentium of military heroes, men who can be spoken of alongside grant and lee, sam houston commander jackson, black jack pershing, washington, says sherman, sheridan command few others. while they won a victory in europe after years of developing their partnership i think that it may be their greatest victory, the victory that they made in leaving their imprint on the american psyche. well, they'll have been very patient with me. as jamie indicated, this is to

be a discussion, not just a monologue. the payoff to me and to you, hopefully, is that i get to hear what you have to say. so, we have some questions. i would love to hear them. i believe jeremy has a microphone. we will be happy to hear what is on your mind because i am sure there is a lot there. >> yes. i am curious. as a young man? where does your involvement and interest in history come from? you have obviously spent much time becoming a lawyer. you have written many, many publications. did your interest in history come from your father? >> much of it did. the question was whether my interest in history came from my father were where it grew up.

i was a young boy during the 1970's. as some of the omer remember, those big budget technicolor films of the 1960's and '70's, torre, torre, torre, anything starring kirk douglas, things like that, those movies were being shown on television. alternately i kind of wanted to find out what those guys really looked like without the hollywood technically screen without the makeup and without the costumes with big stars. really, the point of this book was to find out me the man the underneath the uniform, how are they like us, are they different from us. that was the genesis. as i went through my law career i continued to have interest in history. that interest, i was very fortunate enough to have encouragement by some of my colleagues in houston.

that really gave me sort of a drive to continue what i'm doing. >> i watched a series on the military channel called commanders that were produced by the british. it dealt with the battle of the balls they basically pented bradley as completely inept and talked about eisenhower as the guy who issue the order for patton to attack north. bradley did not have a hand in that. could you comment? >> the question is, during the battle of the bulge what was eisenhower's role? eisenhower learned a painful lesson back. the united states during that battle had a commander who was not entirely his fault, but he was fairly ineffective. i learned a lesson that if there is a crisis i have got to step

in and deal with that. i can't justice sent the guys i trust i ones who will take care of it. the bulls was just one of those crises, and eisenhower, i think, decided to my have to step in. he didn't make a snap decision on his own. the decision to take bradleys to other armies and give them to montgomery originated with the british. now, the british, i'm talking about, two staffers who worked for a guy named bill smith. beetle was eisenhower's chief of staff. he was a miserable back to work for. cities to british guys came up and said, we really think that you need to move the first and ninth armies into makemie's command, at least for right now. reno there will be nationalistic problems, but from a military perspective that makes sense. what he said was, you are fired. consider yourself gone.

he thought about it for six hours and then woke up and basically never apologized but made it clear that he wanted them at their desks to begin the next day. he made a recommendation to eisenhower. it was a decision that i felt he had to make. he did it. his very talented staff. >> i read not too long ago that eisenhower was subordinate to douglas macarthur during world war two and that he started,. is that true? have you heard the statement before? a more important question, and maybe this isn't a fair question, when you look at eisenhower, macarthur, bradley, and patent, is it possible rate them as the greatest american

general's? >> says are two excellent questions. the first one is, did eisenhower say he studied dramatic under. the chief of staff to dennis macarthur in the philippines during the mid 1930's. yes. he said to my study trauma under macarthur. macarthur in turn said eisenhower was the best work ever had. there was no love lost. you can imagine the meeting of the white house. as far as how you write these guys, you know, other than the way the publisher put them on the jacket, how do you tell who is the greatest general, that is a wonderful question and is one that can probably not be adequately answered because in the days of generals on horseback the general did one thing, commanded troops in the tax. by the time we get to the second world war we head generals who

were supremely good at staff work, but would have been terrible battle captains. patton, for instance, would have been an awful supreme commander because that job require diplomacy. towards c. marshall, the greatest soldier this country has ever produced, would have been a mediocre bell captain due to his age and lack of experience commanding field trips. it's very difficult to say he was best. we can say it's fortunate for the allies and america that these three gentlemen were put in the positions that they weren't. some of them in patterns diary, for instance, he said, you know, personally i would not want the job of supreme commander. in fact, he said, frankly, i would not be satisfied unless i was dot and somebody probably outranks him anyway. it's a good question. >> and kate.

you touched on it when you're talking about the legacy. i read your book, which is quite good. i saw the touched upon but did not go into a lot of detail. another general who is prominent in the war, but has received the bill, if any historical credit is general be hurt he was the commander of the sixth army group who came in through the mediterranean. and in your book you mentioned that eisenhower and bradley have extremely low opinions. yet general marshall had very high opinions and continued to push. did you talk about that? >> the question is where did general jacob beavers who was actually the manager of bradley's baseball team and pranced last year at west point, where did he fit into this? the commander of the u.s. sixth army group.

actually quite a good general, but he's got on eisenhower's bad side. the theater commander in england for the next states army. what to get a couple squadrons of heavy bombers to support his invasion. we have to keep with the bombing plan. well, many years after the war john eisenhower said about his father, he never held a grudge as long as he won. in this case beavers, i think, was the victim of a grudge. a very fine general, but he was tall, far from where the decisive area was command he just was not in the inner circle. >> there have been rumors that

it came close to court-martial. is there any validity to that? >> mark clark was somebody who, you get mixed reviews, even to this date. i think that the problem he had -- and this is where, really, the book leads off. he was something of a self promoter. he was actually an exceptional staff officer, but he was a guy who wanted to be the field commander, in the limelight. that creates a bad blood. but during his italian campaign there were, from time to time, questions raised about his generalship, particularly his approach to rome. they never ended up going anywhere. he was someone who was not a popular general. in fact made says that the medal

winner you still love to wear his medal of honor whenever part would be around because by military tradition clark was obliged to salute murphy who was wearing the metal before murphy had to salute him. >> after north africa and maples my uncle said that he did not know an american officer who would not have shot clock in the back if he had a clean shot. >> there were plenty of generals who, from time to time, had some death threats on them. supposedly one of the soldiers equipped to a reporter in sicily that there were 50,000 guys who would have shot patton if they had the chance. i think that was a gross exaggeration, and maybe a reflection of the ira that some of the newsmen felt when they found out that pat and smacked around a couple of enlisted men.

>> before i walk over there i have a question. as a historian how do you fell to resist what you know these generals are riding in their diaries for posterity's sake? they know millions of people will read them after they are long in dead. how do you know whether it is a true feeling, venting, or it is, you know, what we hope they think of them after they're gone. >> that is a good question. there are diaries, and there are diaries. you may have heard winston churchill's a history will be kind to me because i intend to write it. churchill actually said, you discourage the use the diaries because of this is going to do is make you look like you guessed wrong. better to wait until it's all over, right your memoirs, and you are always right. now, as you go through the

diaries, records you begin to seek divergence is over time. memories of course, they'd. this is where the lawyer in me comes out. you have to compare the evidence. now, there is actually a time when i was at the library of congress that i noticed something interesting that we will see if we can bring it up here. that is not a planted question, but this question comes up plenty. as you may recall, december 1944 there was an ardennes offensive. now, that the allies by surprise. virtually everybody. now, in the published version of pans' diaries he has an entry of november 25th, 1924 where he says for the more the first army is making a terrible mistake in believing the eighth corps static, as it is highly probable that the germans are building up east of them.

well, in fact, what happened was the germans were building up these to them. the eighth corps was the epicenter of the great bull to attack that took everyone by surprise, some three weeks later. well, patton, obviously, had quite essence of what the germans were doing, even though that wasn't part of the sector. but we look at the handwritten page. these are both in the library of congress which has that "about the first army making a terrible mistake. patton is published or typewritten version of his diary. box three of the pad and papers. box one has his handwritten diary which contains no entry about the first army or any mistake of the first army or eighth corps or the germans building up there. it is hard to find the genesis of the discrepancy here. obviously at some point pen knew his diaries would be turned into a book that was published

posthumously. and either he or somebody working with him or somebody along after him added this bit about dead german build up to make him look more than he ever the was. that doesn't take away from his tactical acumen. a few weeks later on december trough after speaking with his very smart busy-to intelligence officer he wrote in his diary, well, we will be ready to assist in case the germans attacked. so, he had some help along the way, but we do see an example of where his diary has been embarrassed and ultimately the typewritten version was what was published as the pad and papers. so, you have to do a little bit of historical slipping. yes, sir?

>> we will go right here first. >> i'm sorry, then. >> ulysses s. grant strategy. in the flash pocket he tried to circle the germans and make a pocket and get them off. why did he do that in the battle of the bulge? that seemed like the obvious counterattack. flanked and totally engulfed the pocket. he went back and did the united front. why did he -- why did he do this circling and cutting off of the army. >> that is a good question. why not encircle the bulge. if the bulls is going into your lines and making a semicircle, why not just cut it off at the neck and back whole bunch of guys. eisenhower's first concern in the battle of the balls was to avoid the germans did in past the river. his worry was if we let them go

too far they will be able to cut through our supply line and stumble upon gas stockpiles. it was thought that they were trying to get to and work, which was a major port supply. eisenhower had the option of trying to let all of the germans get into the pocket of this giant baseball glove and then closing the glove. that is what patton wanted to do. he urged them strongly, let's let them go all the way to paris. that's what he said. eisenhower did not want any of that. he did not have a strong feature reserve. his men were stretched to the limit. these guys had been beaten up, trying to rest, trying to refit, cold, hungry, and their just weren't enough rifle divisions that he did throw back against them. he opted for this a plate. in many ways that was a reflection of his safe interest

-- infantry mentality. >> this is not to really do with the war, but about patent. have you ever seen the statues on the plane? >> i have. in fact, we may have a picture of one of the pen statues. i'm sorry? [inaudible question] >> okay. it since he is there and they removed a lot of them ended a lot of work with them he was first facing the library. the you know that story? >> i have heard that and started -- the statue is currently facing away from the library

because see, frankly, was looking at it. >> looking at the library because he could not find it. he was not that this didn't. >> that was it. it is interesting the way to his legend has outstripped that. remember, eisenhower and bradley and frank patent for the entire northern european war. it is really pat knew we think about more than anyone else. partly that is attributable to one to the men, the pad and on the left. we all recall george c. scott per trail which cemented the legends. that was a pretty decent part trail of much of what patten was like. scott got the right look, maybe a bit more swagger than the real patton. you know, they had to convince -- condense 60 years.

one thing i found interesting was the voice of george c. scott, the command voice which we have associated and which every film portrayal has used as its model of the architect george patton. here is the commanding voice of the hollywood patton. and see if we can bring it up. [inaudible] all right. that is the gravel voice. but the real patten had a commanding voice that was slightly different. here are some remarks that he made to the third infantry division after the capture of one of the high point