me. in june of 1950, i was 20 years old. i was in the 2nd infantry division and i was told that we were going to stop the communist invasion of south korea. i don't know whether i've said this publicly but i had no clue of where the hell korea was or what the invasion they were talking about, and even when i came back home, one of the most tragic things was i was never missed and two i could probably explain where the hell i was. now, i can see that out of the ashes of a broken down community that had been crushed to the

ground, that out of all of this has come one of the greatest democracies and economic powers in that region and a longtime friend of the united states or goat those are the good parts and i can say i was in korea 19 in 1950 and i helped to preserve and to continue the expansion of a democracy. ..

this is about 50 minutes. >> you are here because know jim rogan and admire what he's done in unison and about his background. if you want to do early background come you have to read the book rough edges, which i think many of you probably have. we premiered it here when we first came out. it's about his wife from welfare to gain. and it's fascinating because he has endured a tough life, which he all of a sudden i is, this for me and picked himself off and dust himself off and went on to be very successful and public

service. he is a good random farmers. he first met richard nixon because he has an obsession with presidential and clinical memorabilia. and i'm not kidding. it's an obsession. i won't let his wife get up and talk about how much of that is in the karachi box is or hear judge fish talk about how much is in its path is probably for how much is all over his home. but he has been kind enough to share a lot of that with a period and we have much of it on display here. but that's when he first met richard nixon as a young man that will probably tell you a little bit about that. but he is a neighbor. broken flakier in yorba linda and he was a member of our board for quite some time before he went on the bench to her three years ago. but his wife in public service and in the legal profession

began in 83 when he graduated from law school. he was a practicing attorney, very successful in private legal if. he was deputy da in los angeles. he was the youngest municipal court judge serving in glendale. you know him as a congressman. he served as secretary of commerce in washington is congressman and was head of her patent office. and then he came back here and a private debts and was drafted to the judiciary where he now serves. he has done not only rough edges, which was a fascinating book about his life, but he has done, "catching our flag," which you are here to hear about.

that book deals with his assignment as one of the principal managers to help on the prosecution of the president -- president clinton a few years ago. he kept copious notes and that's never really -- i don't think that's about it publicly, but decided to commit his memory and his notes to a book just for archives and for the sake of history. so you are here to hear about that. it is my pleasure to introduce him, congressman james rogan. [applause] >> thank you, mr. chairman. sandy, thank you. i've known him for over 20 years. a special thanks to all my friends at the nixon library and foundation for hosting this year for those of us who live in north orange county, anywhere in southern california, you know

what a great resource -- tremendous resource for librarians. the number of programs for kids, the number of free things they do. i'm especially grateful for all the volunteers to work here and some of them are here tonight. can we have a round of applause for all these people who did a great job? [applause] and if you allow me a moment, a point of personal privilege. if i were going through all of the introduction that i would like to do, i would turn up all of my time. suffice to say i have a number of dear friends and family, colleagues from the bench. i have to introduce judges icp but i don't introduce come you never hear the end of it. my colleague, judge stanford from the superior court. [applause] and judge craig griffin, my other colleague.

[applause] and a special thanks and affection for people that were done by assembly and congressional staff here as well. i wasn't going to talk too much about this, but since sandy gave me the introduction i will. they played a very important role in my young life. i grew up in san francisco in this very blue-collar low income family. and of course we were all union democrats there. if there were several republican team at cisco, i never met one. but i was a total political junkie. i like history, government and politics. in 1972 when he was running for reelection was only 14 years ago. i get this thing in the mail that says we have this group of young voters for the president. if you are between the ages of 18 and 40, that was young, you can pay for $240 who will put you on a charter plane or flight

to miami beach for the republican national convention, hotel food, everything paid for and you can get in the convention. i had $240 saved up from site jobs. i learned at a very early age it is far better to ask forgiveness than ask permission. [laughter] by what down to the local 711, then a money order for $240. and my mom came home later he said here's the thing. i'm going to miami beach by myself for a week. as a 914. i'm going to get on this airplane, flight to miami from california come and spend a whole week there and then probably come home at the end of the week. and my mother said, you're 14. you can't do that. you can't go 30,000 miles away by yourself with no parental supervision. i said mom, i'm going to be with 20,000 republicans. how much trouble can i get into? [laughter]

she said your. you can go. so i had this impression. i have this impression of republicans. stiff, no fun. and i thought this is really going to be 20,000 boring people. but i will have a chance to collect lots and lots of political memorabilia. so i take this plane down to lax where they have this holding area. at midnight they put us on a charter plane that is filled up with young voters. i've never been on a charter plane before. i learned when you get on a charter plane of 18 to 40 euros, and there is no waiting for the pilot to say we are now at a cruising altitude, you can get out of our seats. that thing was that 102nd semiarid come everybody was out of their seats, made a beeline for the liquor cabinet, started passing out ooze all over the plane. within minutes, all these people dancing, drinking, having the state party and then taking office in sek. the only person who wasn't that

way was my seat mate, this lament -- output at about 20 or so. she was sitting with me right out of central casting. hair and a bone from a very buttoned up in everything. somebody offered her a glass of wine. she took it. and another and another. we are fine for hours. she started complaining it's getting really hot in this airplane. the bond came out of her hair and buttons got unbuttoned. i'm going to guess we were somewhere over salina, kansas when she is looking at me after about 12 drinks and she said, you're a really nice guy. you seem like you're easy to talk to. can i tell you a secret? i said sure. she said, i have a personality disorder. [laughter]

that piqued my interest. is that what is at? she said, i am a. [laughter] now, i must tell you as one who is educated in the public schools of the san francisco bay area, i did not know much geometry, but i knew what that meant. she looked at me and said, how old are you? and i said, 37. so the point of this is from that experience going from miami beach, seeing president nixon renominated almost 40 years ago i came home and learned a very valuable lesson that in america there truly is a vibrant

two-party system and services for democrats should not be so narrowminded. [laughter] already come i guess i should move on to the subject that i'm here to talk about. i want to make a preliminary observation. there is a fellow named bob packwood, a former united states senator. in my opinion, nothing personal come is very bad for history. he was a senator for about 25 years. about 20 years ago, he was accused of harassment from some staffers and some love yours and so forth. somewhere turned out that somebody disclosed for 25 years every single day, senator packwood took very copious notes. he kept a daily diary and not only wrote down his legislative issues, but also found himself compelled to record things that would eat that day, while closer and also every pass at another well then. when this came out, the senate

subpoenaed his diaries and ended up having to resign from office and so forth. so when i got to washington assist total history junkie that who always felt more like a frustrated historian and politician, i thought it was important for whatever time is there to keep a careful diary. during president clinton's impeachment that on one day before the monica lewinsky story was revealed and i knew nobody was keeping -- that somebody didn't keep a careful record for future historians, they would have to but i am either faulty logic or faulty memories or faulty motives. so from the first they started bringing a legal pad to every behind the scenes meetings and taking us to get the worst as they are coming out of people's mouths. i thought this to be a very valuable archive. and the congressman sitting next to me with jackie and he said, are you keeping a diary?

i said yeah, this could be really important history. he shook his head and said that violate the rule. you can't keep a diary. i said, what is the packwood will? he said they can't subpoena which you don't break down. he said i'm a look around the room. do you see anybody else keeping a? and i looked around. other than occasional to that page and see anyone else doing anything interesting. i kept writing at the sydney about with this impression. but i felt that this would be very, very important archive. the question is, why publish this now? why not do it 11 or 12 years ago? i had a number of people we been publishing contracts. it was not a secret and people seem to not care after a while. seems like background noise. after president clinton's impeachment 12 years ago, i had a bunch of publishers say this to be a great book and so forth and i refuse to read the book.

i did not feel that was a time to read a book. i didn't want to read a book while i was still in congress, might be tempted to color participation or an angry electorate back home and i also thought of fairness to president clinton and everyone involved that i should wait at least 10 years to the passions cool and try to be far more object to it. and so that is why i waited all this time. in fact, when i was defeated for reelection after the clinton impeachment, the first day take me out to lunch and probably knew i needed a free lunch was newt gingrich. and he took me to lunch and started planning my life for me during the lunch and started right down several books. impeachment is not your first book. your first book should be the one ursini told you about. impeachment you want to wait a while. i took his advice and quite frankly the reason i wrote the first book was talked about how i got to washington is because

he thought it would be very inspirational and the book actually sold out. i still get people sending it to meet eight years later, which is very gratifying. i tend to find the part copies. the premise of the book as important as this story because my mom was not the traditional mother a future congressmen. choose a single moms on welfare and food stamps raising four kids. she's been in and out of jail and i dropped out of high school in the 10th grade. i went to support, went to her to support the family. i was running with the really bad crowd. during break-ins, cars, all these things. at some point i decided if i ever ran for congress, which was my goal, i'd probably have to sort it straighten up and get an education. and so, the book chronicles how very tough it is for kids that live from that kind of life to

turn their lives around on the hurdles saturday that can be done. and so, i told the story of bartending all over hollywood had i worked in a female mud wrestling buyer. eric tenney hells angels bar. i worked in all black bar in between my bartender jobs they were for three or four days is about her of a movie theater. all the things that prepare you for a life in congress. when i was in congress, used to love to sit and look at somebody named kennedy lecture me about what it was like to be poor. i always thought that was very illuminating. but a wrote this book first for another reason. i wrote the book because when we were going to this old impeachment exercise, i kept hearing over and over that these guys are impeaching bill clinton because they are puritanical states who are trying to punish him for making a personal mistake. nothing could have been further from the truth get in fact, that

is what the new book is about. what really led to the impeachment of president clinton? what i wrote these mistaken or false assumptions that people had out there, that are just the opposite of what was really happening behind the scenes? so i get to congress after this 30 year voyage. the reason i tell you about the background is because you need to know something. when somebody says they're going to be a congressman and works their heart out for 30 years and finally gets there, i was in no hurry to leave. i was not there to just throw it careered to get even with some guy for having an affair, particularly after he had this rather useful background. and i get to washington d.c. for what they call freshman orientation. i got a lot to and within a week were back to d.c. and will teach us how to be a congressman. one of the great heroes in congress on as they are called me and says -- his name is henry

hyde, chairman of the house judiciary. before impeachment were henry got made up, henry was one of the most beloved and respected members of the house. he really was a renaissance man, almost in the 19th century standard. he was funny, charming, brilliant, kind. everybody loves him. as the chairman of the house judiciary committee inviting me to come see him, it was my hope he was going to ask me to be on the judiciary. when i mentioned it to a few senior congressman, they all went. bill paxon a member from new york who is the chairman of the republican congressional campaign committee sat me down and he said, you have to turn that down. the judiciary committee will be in the movie studios. you're in a big democratic

district or do one with 50.1% of the top your ticket upon undercounted by some 20 points. the last thing you need, no offense, it's been on tv every day fighting with barney frank and maxine waters overcomes an abortion. you need to get on the commerce department. sure enough he invited me to join the committee. i told them i'm flattered to any mac that the answer is no. i'll be with you on the vote. i'm a social conservative, but i don't need to get into the template. the next year, henry kept coming and saying you are just the kind of guy went on the committee. the above to have you. the senior kept rebuffing in a very nice way. towards the enemy first year in congress, he said you know, you remember -- you've got most of the hollywood movie studios, entertainment industry. it is intellectual property.

he says, we have an intellectual property subcommittee on the judiciary committee. that would be really good for your district if he could be back or protect their economic interests, would net cliques he said okay. we had no openings come up will have an opening in here and a the year and a half when i get the next congressman and you're my guy for the next opening. we cut the deal and a year and a half on the judiciary committee. a couple months after that, my beloved dear friend, sonny bodo, who was just one the most gracious, funny, witty guys have ever known in my life got killed any skiing accident. i have to say a word about sonny. i loved him dearly. he knew my background and he had kind of a similar story. in fact, i remember sitting with him one night at night on the floor of the house of representatives. he was at the two or three in the morning and i'm trying to fall asleep. we were there for sending a series of votes, but then i

couldn't get enough of the fact he was congress min. to his dying day he was just a nod at the institution. he demonstrated more than i should have been made. he's looking around the chamber, telling me can you believe? look at this. we been served here. and webster are coming served here. and john f. kennedy -- he starts naming of these people. i guess i'm just blowing them off for not showing enough reverend. he'll both me and says you have to be of yourself. look at you. used to be a bartender in the sun at strip. he said, i used to try to meet track on the sunset strip. here, members of congress. he's looking around and says, did you ever stop and wonder how we ever got here? by this time i had had enough of the chattering. at the config funny, i look around every day and wonder how you got here.

[laughter] i know how i got here. i went to law school. i'm still trying to figure you out. [laughter] anyway, a few months after he had the conversation on january 5th, 1988, sonny was killed tragically in a skiing accident. i tell you these things for a reason. i tell you nothing sometimes for. engendering nine, to palm springs for his funeral. they had all this sitting in a side chapel waiting for it to conservatives. i'm a share and former presidents word. and who comes and sits next to me that henry hyde -- chairman hyde who also loves sonny. and henry was a big bethink irish, very emotional, sentimental guy. and as for talking about sonny, i'll never forget. henry sitting next to me and just starts crying. i'm watching one of my heroes crying in front of me and it's

choking me up. i'm a tough guy. i was raised by my grandfather. i'm not one of these korean public kind of guys. but he pulls out his handkerchief and starts crying. and his blackberry and wiping his eyes and know i'm doing the same thing and telling him to stop. he said i can't stop. while he was crying he says to me, you know, jim, sonny was on the judiciary committee. [laughter] might, the body is being wheeled in. he's telling me, he says, sonny was on the judiciary committee. and you remember we that conversation. i've got to take another day take his place in nearby guy. and i'm feeling this is kind of sacrilegious. and i've got my handkerchief and it blew my nose and wiped my

eyes. i said mr. chairman, with all due respect, this is not the time or place to talk about this, but i'll take it. there was a problem. because i was on the commerce committee, it's one of the four exclusive committees. a member can't serve on any other community serving congress or to henry said no problem, we'll do a trade with the democrats. two days later, gender 11, henry heise in the two-page letter, telling of the reasons he wants me to be on the committee. the speaker per se. i get the funk on january 20. you've been approved coming or going in the judiciary committee. the next morning as i was drinking a cup of coffee, and open up the "washington post" and there it is, the monica lewinsky story is all over the front page. and i was off to the races. and so, what happened after that, within hours they get back to my office and there were 20 tv cameras out there and i'm

just surrounded. all these people are shoving microphones in my face and telling me, you've just been put on this committee to impeach the president. very former prosecutor and judge. i was standing there smiling fantasy or to to work on copyright trademarks. they say you're a liar. that's why iwaki to the timetable to show it really was just a coincidence. one of the things about colette and political memorabilia came back to help him. when i got to congress, the democrats were out of power and not happy about it among the senior democrats was a guy named john, and it was a democrat on the house judiciary. and i spent many nights when i saw conyers alone. i popped on and want to talk to him about his service because he was the only living member of congress still serving who actually served on the watergate committee. but whenever i try to sit down and talk to john, he would just

blow me off of them have anything to do with me. john is now the ranking democrat on the house judiciary committee. i knew he was favorably predisposed to republicans in general a semi-journal experience. because i was a: your political america, i wanted to break the ice. i went home and shuffle to my collection and found something. i sat down next to john the man in the house cooler. and as he started to walk away, i grabbed him by the arm and said, do you remember 30 years ago teddy kennedy coming to your district and doing a rally with you? unit to me like how do you know that? he said yes they do. i was the biggest rally. a city now, do you remember ever seeing a yellow cab came out in clicks the people's choice and 72, kennedy for president, congress for vice president. and he said, i saw buttons.

in fact i told my staff can't get me one of those and they never did. i reached into my pocket. i got this for like 20 cents when i was a kid. i said john, i saved it for you and what delay. i didn't think anything of it at the time, but my first day in the judiciary committee i got on committee with lindsey graham. another person i dive into lindsey graham and may become the new members of committee. and the impeachment thing is now in full bloom in her first committee hearing after the lewinsky story and the prices they are in everyone's assuming this is going to be fireworks. and so, henry by tradition, chairman introduces a new members. he does a little introduction of the little introduction of the the. john conyers says mr. chairman, will yield. they'll start whispering, here comes. he's going to scream about these guys. they're just putting these guys

and i'm just thinking conyers is going to kill us. john conyers started saying i joined with my colleague, the chairman of welcoming congressman jim rogan. congressman rogan, what a fine man, a great state name. [laughter] and he is going and on about what a wonderful addition. all these republicans around me are starting to do this, looking at me. you know, what is this all about. and i am just sitting there. and i look at me very suspiciously. i go on, to welcome congressman rogan to the committee. he said, mr. chairman, i yield the balance of my time. so at the time the campaign memorabilia holds me up. i was in on the very long when newt gingrich called and said he had a homework assignment for me

indicates me because you said i'd do a prosecutor and a judge. he said, you know, we don't know what is going to happen with this. the special prosecutor was working in secret. we didn't do what he was putting together. remember he judged her for three of four years before the lewinsky thing, he was investigating whitewater, travel gate, all of these different hush mini to pay two former staffers that went to prison and renting the lincoln vendor. all of these things that judge starr was investigating. and now we had to pick up this lewinsky issue as well. speaker gingrich came in he said, i need somebody to draft the photo call. what do we do if a report recommending impeaching the president comes? ..

and congressmen who worked on iran-contra and all of these things, of all the interviews the one that i thought was the most fascinating was with the former chairman of the house judiciary committee, peter brittany no. for people who are at least as old as i that name will be familiar because he was the democrat chairman of the house judiciary committee that led the impeachment investigation into president nixon. former chairman rodino had been out of congress by that time tenet 20 years and he was still teaching law school one day a

week at rutgers in new jersey. i think he was 92. i called him up and they said mr. chairman, told them what i want to do and he told me no. he said you can't come. i'm not going to talk to you. he said i support president clinton. i do want to give -- you come up to talk to me like i'm helping you and that will give the impression that i'm somehow behind this or i'm okay with that i'm not going to let that happen. and here i'm just for five months in congress but i was pretty bold. in congress i was pretty bowl. i said mr. chairman i'm sorry that is not an acceptable answer. you spent 40 years of your life as a member of the house. you love this house. i've been assigned the job to make sure we draft a protocol that is fair and you are a person that has unique knowledge in this and you have to give me your time. so i am going to fly up and there -- and you will have to meet with me. peter rhee diener said fine. i flew up to new jersey to go see him. i had one of my, had a deputy

chief counsel with me and their chief investigator of dave shippers and we flew up there and i told john r. council, i said you guys played went outside. i don't want to you many more. i'm going to talk to miss see if i can get them to loosen up for me. and if i can't i have got sort of an ace in the whole that i'm going to pull and see that works so i going to see chairman rodino who sa said was about 92 but very sharp. he was as sharp as a tack. and he had with him a witness who was i guess another law professor, or a guy that look like looked like a law professor. he had a big beard and long hair and birkenstocks. [laughter] a turtleneck and love these. i don't know. he was just sitting there. both of them not smiling, not from it. chairman rodino perfunctorily shook my hand and sickle to the witness who turned on the tape recorder and he said he is my witness. you have 30 minutes. the time is now the government

for 20.5 minutes chairman rodino lost into a lecture talking about fairness and how this is terrible and all the stuff he was saying. he was in their answer questions. he was there to give me a lecture. and then he said now i will hear from you. how do you view this? i started telling him, i'm here to do the right thing and this is not a partisan thing. thank you, your time is up and turned off the recorder and said thank you for coming. the other guy stood up and i said okay it is time to pull out the atomic bomb. i said mr. chairman i want to thank you for keeping two promises to me. he said what are the two promises? promise number one you told me you would give me a half-hour of your time and you did that. promise number two is this of a reach into my coat pocket and handed him a piece of paper. when i was 17 i made my very first trip to washington d.c. and it was about a year after watergate. i thought hey as long as i'm going to washington i got to meet all these movers and

shakers who can give me advice on how to get into politics. i started writing. i'm 17 and i'm coming to washington and i want to meet you. i were to hubert humphrey and most of them said come on by. the one i could meet with was peter rodino. he wrote me a letter this that i'm going to be out of town the week you are here but however i will give you a rain check. [laughter] i handed him the letter and i said i just want to thank you for keeping your promise and giving me the rain check and rodino looked at that letter and he looked up at me and he said something like here is this kid? he points to the other guy. get out. take the tape recorder with you. i had a couple of friends. can i bring them? bring them in. we sat there for 3.5 hours. he talked to me about everything. he talked about watergate. he talks about everything he had

seen and gave me recommendations that i brought back to speaker gingrich and speaker gingrich adopted those recommendations. in fact we called them the rodino rules. those were the ones that were put into play so he had come in fact as a postscript to it he wanted me to come over to his house for dinner later. he said come on over to my house and i will make a spaghetti. i had to tell him i can't make it mr. chairman i have to get back for some both but i will give you reign check. the next time i come up here i will come and see you. i didn't get back up there for six or seven years and by then i was out out of congress and invited to give a speech at rutgers. i thought you know he is almost 100, he is not going to remember me but i did make a promise. he not only remembered me but started asking me how was my wife doing and how were my kids doing? he said we can't do it. i'm just recovering from major surgery and i just don't think i can make it. i said maybe i can come by and i

will bring dinner. as we started talking his boy started cracking. he said you know i served 40 years in congress. i was on the cover of "time" magazine and recognized all around the world and you know when you leave that place nobody remembers you. nobody cares. he said i'm trying to recover from major surgery and not one of my former colleagues pastor president has called to say how are you doing? the only guy who calls me as a guy on the wrong party that came 20 years after i left. his boy started breaking. i said mr. chairman you need to know something. i said what you went through set a protocol that 25 years later one another president faced the future and the republican congress was doing it, we adopted your rule. that became the template that we used. that is not a bad legacy for a tenement kid from new jersey. he perked up and he said okay, i think actually we can go out to dinner. come on over. sadly it was not to be because a couple of days later chairman

rodino passed away at the age of 96 but i was always grateful for him to take enough time. want to lead time for questions in this book has hundreds if not thousands of them yet so i will leave you with a couple of quick ones. the president obviously gets up -- -- ends up getting impeached into say we are unwanted when we get there could be a euphemism and it was a bipartisan lack of appreciation for our president. we were told very early on that in fact trent lott told me the republican leader, he told me i don't care if you have pictures of this guy standing over a dead woman with a smoking gun in your hand. america did not want him impeached and you guys have jumped off a cliff. i have 55 republican senators, seven of whom are up for re-election next year in tough races. we are protecting our majority. we are going to be the adults. you are going to be the children. we don't care if it is about

perjury or of sharks and of justice, we are taking care of business. the night before we started the senate trial what i will refer to as trial although it really wasn't a trial. was more of a sham. locke asked a group of us to meet with a bipartisan group of senators, three democrats and republicans, henry hyde called me and said we'd come over and into this meeting with me in a and a couple of other fellows. we went over there and we were supposed to meet in a locked conference room. one of them said we will be more comfortable in the committee hearing room so come with us and they lead us down the hall room. the six senators take seats way appear in the committee and they have a have a set way down below them so we are we are kind of in a circus maximus. although we were missing where the lions. we spend the next two or three hours listening and basically we don't care what your evidence is. you should have brought this here. we are going to kill this case and you are going to live to route a day. everybody else is talking and they're just blowing us off.

henry looked at me ike say something so i tried to make a pitch. and i said senators i have to tell you something. i said tomorrow for only the second time in american history the chief justice of the united states is going to leave his court, is going to come into your chamber and is going to administer an oath to 100 united states senators to do impartial justice. tomorrow when the chief gives you that oath and 20,000 courthouses around the country, judges are going to be administering the exact same oath to untold thousands of. if they can take the oath and if they won't take the oath they can't sit. when i think about tomorrow, how many single moms working at starbucks, how many rivers and how many people working in gas stations and how many unemployed people that would rather be

someplace else and do something else will take that oath and take that oath seriously as an american citizen. i have to believe that when 100 members of the greatest deliberative body on the face of the planet takes that oath, there is going to be the same degree of seriousness that i've seen jurors take my whole professional life. there was a silence in the room. and the six senators looked at each other and they look at me and then they laughed at me. and that was are welcome our welcome to the united states senate. we went through the trial. renewal is a losing proposition. why impeach a president when 75% of the american people are opposed to it? if you think about it now and more historical terms, think it is an incredibly interesting

dynamic, because you had in this window period politicians who are genetically hardwired not to do anything unpopular, not to do things that rock the boat. not to make the voters angry at them. suddenly went from a position of wanting to protect themselves to realizing that there was an important principle of law that required defending and it had nothing to do with the president's personal life. it is a fascinating story and this book chronicles it day to day how slowly this all changed, how that dynamic changed. and the ultimate question is why do it? and this is why. why did i give up my seat in congress? it took me 30 years to get

there. why was i willing to cast a vote and participate in something that i knew from the start was a loser recs this is why. when the founders wrote the constitution, they said a president can be removed for high crimes and misdemeanors but they never defined what is a high crime or misdemeanor. so where do we get the definition? the definition comes from every single impeachment that the house faces. we had 17 or 18 of them. i think we had 17 by the time president clinton came before us. mostly federal judges. a federal judge or an officer is charged with something wrong. there is a vote on whether to impeach him and that becomes the standard, the president of what is or is not an impeachable offense. the evidence is not even controverted anymore that president clinton committed

perjury. in fact you will recall that he cut it the bargain and maybe you don't recall because the press didn't talk about it very much but honest last day in office after attacking his daily to avoid being federally prosecuted he signed a plea bargain with federal prosecuted and admitted he lied under oath in admitted the things we had charged him with. if we had not voted to impeach president clinton we would have set a standard for every future president that perjury, subornation of perjury, obstruction of justice. it may be terrible and it may be tacky. it may be something maybe can prosecute the guy for later but it is not a removable offense and my friends let me tell you, democrat republican and independent, you do not want to live in a country where you president of the united states feels they can commit perjury or obstruct justice and not think that has anything more than a

one-way exit ticket from the white house. that will always be the standard based upon the clinton president as long as members of congress have the spine to stand up to them. when i gave my closing argument in the senate trial, i told the senators, this is not herself to me. in fact president clinton, and ours had a soft spot for him. i first met him when i was in college and he was the attorney general of arkansas. this is a bigger issue and i know that by being a part of this i am not coming back. i told the senate i'm going to be defeated in my next campaign and i was. i have to tell you a quick story about my closing argument because it involves all of this. i drafted for my closing argument but what i thought would be the most important thing i could say to my great grandkids as to why i was part of this losing proposition. at the very last minute just before he spoke chief justice

rehnquist took a brief recess and i went in the backroom and i saw a guy on tv hammering us and talking about us. he offended me and made me mad and because because i am i shy get mad and start crossing out my bag in his opus beach. i went on the senate floor. i spent months just crapping to my staff, why did i do that? i wanted to say something and my staff some of whom are here tonight that so fed up listening to me complain about it that they printed up this beautiful brochure which is essentially a lost closing arguments of congressman rogan. they made up 5000 of these and they said here, shut up, quit complaining. you are going to be in congress for a long time. wherever you go you can pass things things out and people will know what you want to say and when you run out of those 5000 the womb ache of 5000 more. you can do this for the rest of your life. the problem not long after that i was defeated for re-election. i came home with 4950 of these things in the back of my car.

for those of you who get a book tonight or order one from from the foundation on line, you not only will get a signed book, you will be the proud possessor, you will know forever what i intended to say in the impeachment trial. i want to thank all of you for coming and just appreciate your being here and i hope you enjoy the book. there will be a lot of stories in it that i think will grow your hair. thank you, sandy. >> thank you, thank you. [applause] >> congressman has agreed to answer some questions so i will come to you with this microphone and ask you to stand if anybody has any. do i see any? somebody over here? let's see, raise your hand. oh good, there you are. i'm going to hand it to you. >> you probably don't remember me, but this is a thing i will

always remember. there was a lawsuit against fair ray board and placentia. i won the first case, and the thing that they said is that hearing was they wouldn't be in the hearing today if my husband had not expired. so anyway, i won that case and they disagreed with it. so i called fairway ford to see how they wanted to make payment to me, that they could pay it to the court. the court could indeed pay me. they said, we will see you in court. luckily, you were my judge at that second hearing. [laughter] >> how did i do? [laughter] >> did great, because.

>> that's all i need to hear, man. >> iowa 79 years old from yorba linda, a widow and they thought that woman doesn't know anything. we can scare her. of course the second time, as soon as you walked in, took the bench, maybe you don't remember it, but i said i remember you. my husband and i respect you from the hearing of clinton. i have just change my party. [laughter] >> thank you. [applause] i guess the lesson from that ladies and gentlemen is if you are a future litigant in my courtroom, you know how to start. [laughter] thank you, maam. thank you. >> i am not sure what the question was.

>> two points. number one have you spoken to mr. or mrs. clinton? [inaudible] >> the question is, have i ever talk to president and mrs. clinton? well my wife and i encountered mrs. clinton once a year after he impeachment but that is a story for a different book. president clinton and i actually after both of us left washington for a period of a few years, had a very private but very cordial correspondence and that and it during mrs. clinton's campaign because some reporter called and said i hear you to write back and forth. well that is true. he said i would like to see the notes and i said no you can't see them. the company doesn't campaign started vehemently denying, president clinton would never write to him and so forth. i think it must have like embarrassed -- i think somebody

got embarrassed that he were an i were corresponding so i haven't heard from him since but there was a period were tooled warriors were at least in touch. i asked newt gingrich about that once and he told me, he said he will call me sometime to 2:00 the morning and want to talk about old times. he said i think he is like me. he misses the war. president clinton if you are listening, feel free to write and i will answer. it would be nice to hear from you again and i hope you didn't hate the book too much. >> i want to ask a question. you have been in the legislative branch, you have been in the executive branch. you have been in judiciary with your new appointments. if you were advising a young person who wanted to go into public service, prayer which he steer them out of your experience in all the branches? >> i would give them the same advice that attorney general of arkansas bill clinton gave me in 1978 when i met him.

i was a young democrat and i was the back for a conference. [laughter] [inaudible] it's bill clinton. [laughter] >> she has had enough of my speeches. she knows how to make a dramatic exit. so i need to clinton and i'm in college applying to law school and i walked up to him and i asked him, i know your story or garr read about you in a magazine. i've at the same background. i want to go into politics and i'm not quite sure where to start in bill clinton took about 15 minutes or so of his time. i wasn't even a constituent and he told me, go to law school. he said if you are going to be involved in the legislative process in any way it involves writing the laws. who better to know about the

legal process than a lawyer? he said from a practical perspective also you have something to fall back on if your political desires don't fall through. one of the great ironies of that meeting is that it was 20 years, not just to the very day but to almost that our that i was sitting in the house judiciary committee casting a vote on articles of impeachment against president clinton so here 20 years later our paths intersected in a way that neither of us could've ever imagined. the advice he gave me was first appreciated and second never forget it and it proved to be very good advice. [applause] see every weekend but tv offers 48 hours of programming focused on nonfiction authors and books. watch it here on c-span2. >> in your book, you talk about one of those life-changing moments. you are watching that the

justice thomas, anita hill hearings. what happens to andrew breitbart. >> i just graduated from college, a place like my bar mitzvah. i thought it might permits i would learn and education about judaism but i left feeling very empty because i just learned how to chant. i felt i was open for a spiritual experience and i didn't get it. i felt the exact same way in college where i was and american studies major and the stuff that i was reading was and comprehensive it. it was jargon. it was noam chomsky like in its lack of conference into a person who doesn't understand that language. and it was demoralizing. and i graduated less skilled, less motivated and i was a waiter. my education was a lack of an education and so, i was waiting tables right after graduating college and i finished my lunch

shift. >> host: your friends are saying to you, what you are doing this? you are so much better than this. >> guest: it was embarrassing and humiliating and the best thing that ever happened in my life, the humiliation and the people that i was looked up to and trying to impress. my parents got me out. it was brutal and that is why i dedicated the book to my father, who cut me off and clarence thomas at the same time. both of their guidances in my life coincided. >> host: that is a good segue back to the hearing. >> guest: yeah. i went for my job and i started watching the hearings wanted to root for the takedown of clarence thomas. i watched the television set in the television set told me that this was a bad man and the newspapers told me he was a bad man. and i remember eleanor shmiel,

remember patricia schroeder walking up the steps and saying this guy, we are going to take a stand against this guy for sexual harassment, serial sexual harassment. so i watch these hearings like a spectator wanted to see somebody fall, like ed lyons mulling the romans. i watch day one and watch the to and watch the entire thing. i went from wanting him to be taken down to wondering where's the beef lacks what is going on here? i don't understand what i'm watching. i don't understand the color commentary that is on the screen where they are saying oh this is outrageous. i didn't understand the bumper stickers going by me on the street saying i believe anita. i said i believe anita what? what is going on here? i don't understand what is going on here. everything that i picked up at college in my american studies cultural marxist oppressor oppressed black people are always right, white people are

always wrong, i didn't understand how ted kennedy, the ted kennedy of the chappaquiddick phase, how howard metzenbaum and a series of white privilege man could sit in judgment of this man who is the son of grandparents who were sharecroppers who raised him and he went to yale law school. he did everything right including allowing for anita hill to rise through the ranks of the legal profession through jobs with him, where she never had a sexual relationship with him at all. he did nothing untoward, and she was party to this takedown. i did not understand how it could be that these white people of privilege were attacking this but and who was in this historic decision while the mainstream media took him down, while the naacp and the urban league and other black liberal leaders sat and seemed to relish this takedown. >> host: who was your mentor?

you what a mentor at the time that they will get to later who is brutally murdered. you didn't know that you have this mentor and it was along that time that you started questioning the indoctrination. >> guest: the smartest person i ever met was this guy named mike guy was delivering pizza in high school and he was just different. he was alternative and he was the smartest guy i ever knew. in hindsight he wasn't the most ethical guy. he took the s.a.t.'s for a bunch of my friends and got then 60 and 100. he is the smartest guy you could ever meet. he dropped out of you see santa barbara and while i was going to college, he was floundering and doing drugs. during the period of time that he was my mentor, he was taking me to alternative bookstores to read about left-wing ideas. he very much was into the class struggle and when i started to have these epiphanies, when i started to get my job, as i was

aspiring to be an intellect, as i was trying to understand his world view, as i was trying to embrace the struggle at a certain point my dad said something that nobody told him. and you need to get a job. unity cleanup. you need to get your act together. you need to stop doing drugs so there was a certain point where i started to challenge my mentor. it wasn't that i felt like i was an intellect as i was able to beat him at the game up s.a.t. scores. i still was about 400 points below him on that level that i started to gain the self-confidence and the self-respect that i could call him out on his misbehavior and i just started to move away from this guy. i got a phonecall once as i was starting to move towards independence and away from this etymology that absolutely dominated this guy's consciousness. i got a phonecall that he was murdered at a hotel room in los